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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:22.873] - Jary Jackson
I applied to 1,000 jobs and I had less than 10 interviews. 22 years, 18 as a Green Beret, could articulate my value, had an MBA, and like, okay, I can, I can at least do something, right? I had a, a Veteran-specific recruiter from a large bank tell me that, hey, nobody's going to take a chance on somebody that's unproven. And I was like, unproven? I'm like, I want to reach to the phone and choke this guy. I'm like, what do you mean unproven?
[00:00:48.603] - Freddie Kim
Welcome to the Veteran Led Podcast. I'm your host, Freddie Kim. I am sitting here in Dallas, Texas, at the Veteran Edge Conference with Jary Jackson. Jary is the owner and CEO of TCS and Thurion, former Special Forces operator. Why did you join the Army?
[00:01:05.853] - Jary Jackson
Oh, shoot. So which time? I actually did it twice. First time was in the '90s. I always wanted to be just in the military and dedicated to service. And so, I joined and did my 4 years, and You know, I wanted to get that college money, right? So, I got out after my 4 years and started to go to college and worked as a firefighter. And then 9/11 happened, and then I joined back in. So, I felt that calling to service, just wanted to give my part. Originally, I thought I was going to go be a helicopter pilot, and then— but I had to do one more year first. And I made some new friends, and they were all going to try out for Special Forces. They're like, hey, you ever thought about going Special Forces? I'm like, sure, why not? I'm not doing anything better right now. And I ended up making it.
[00:01:47.503] - Freddie Kim
And why not? You went on a whim and then you made it. Okay.
[00:01:51.113] - Jary Jackson
Well, I was always driven to do bigger and better things, right? And so, I was like, yeah, let's, let's do it. And shoot, whirlwind later. So, I spent like 12 straight years on a team. So, I started off as a Special Forces medic and then, yeah, did pretty much all the, all the great things that you can do.
[00:02:11.333] - Freddie Kim
Awesome.
[00:02:12.293] - Jary Jackson
On a team. My last position was managing the Warrior Care Program, which was which is great. And that was my only time not on a team, but I got to give back, and we got to help out all the wounded, ill, and injured special operations folks and their families. And so that was actually a really rewarding position for me.
[00:02:33.643] - Freddie Kim
Yeah. And you made a fascinating transition to the civilian world. As an entrepreneur and a business owner.
[00:02:44.003] - Jary Jackson
Yeah
[00:02:44.803] - Freddie Kim
We'd love to hear that story.
[00:02:46.913] - Jary Jackson
About a year before I was going to get out, I always knew I wanted— I needed to plan ahead of time. So I got my bachelor's in business, and then a friend of mine said, well, hey, when are you going to do your master's? And I'm like, let's do it. And so I'm like, I went and got my MBA, went to a top school for that. And then when I was getting out, I'm like, okay, I'm going to go get into investment banking or consulting, and, uh, I had my 6 months, uh, you know, to look for a job and that sort of thing. I applied to 1,000 jobs, um, and I had less than 10 interviews.
[00:03:17.233] - Freddie Kim
How many?
[00:03:17.973] - Jary Jackson
Less than 10 interviews. And I— yeah, and I applied to 1,000 jobs. So, you know, 22 years, 18 as a Green Beret, could articulate my value, had an MBA, and like, okay, I can, I can at least do something, right? And, um, I had a, a Veteran-specific recruiter from a large bank telling me that, hey, nobody's going to take a chance on somebody that's unproven. And I was like, unproven? I'm like, I want to reach for the phone and choke this guy. I'm like, what do you mean unproven? And it really pissed me off. Yeah. And it kind of lit a fire under me that like I didn't really forget, right? I'm like, all right, I'm going to prove this guy wrong. And thankfully, through network, you know, another Veteran brought me on as a material handling consultant. If it went in a warehouse, I sold it. And just like Veterans, you know, a lot of us do, like, hey, we're going to go out and give it our best at everything we could do. I crushed it. I did really, really good. And I just go into all these small businesses and just kind of figure out what makes them tick and how to make them more productive.
[00:04:18.463] - Jary Jackson
And I'd always talk with the business owners. And one particular owner was another Veteran who bought a trailer company. And I'm like, wait, you, you bought this business? That's, that's insane. How'd you do that? And because I always thought like, hey,
[00:04:30.903] - Freddie Kim
you got to do that,
[00:04:31.873] - Jary Jackson
right?
[00:04:32.213] - Freddie Kim
Light bulb.
[00:04:32.613] - Jary Jackson
Yeah. I was like, I was like, what is like, what do you mean? And you don't have millions of dollars just sitting ready to go buy a business? Because I would always, I thought like, hey, that's something I would want to do. But I don't, you know, I'm not, you know, Jeff Bezos or like I don't have some crazy whiz-bang idea or anything like that. So went to meet his investors, learned about the SBA model on what's now known as entrepreneurship through acquisition and went to boot camp with them and just went through that. I'm like, that's what I'm going to do. Like, light bulb went off. I'm like, holy cow. And then so it was a process. So for about, you know, 2 years, I'm looking for a business to acquire. And at this time, I've like transitioned into like government contract sales or at least trying to kind of suck at it.
[00:05:17.013] - Freddie Kim
But, but you didn't go through a traditional ETA process. You didn't have a fund right? No, paying for you for those 2 years.
[00:05:25.193] - Jary Jackson
No, I didn't do that. No, I was doing sales. So it was interesting because, you know, you have life issues as well. And so like my wife was pregnant at the time and, you know, like, hey, I couldn't just drop out of everything that I was doing to go do this. So all of my free time was dedicated to doing this because I knew 100% like that's what I was going to do. And then I ultimately found a business 2 years later to acquire and checked all the boxes, looked really, really great. And the incredible part was, and this is what I tell people, is like, I bought an $8 million business for $30,000 out of pocket. And it was granted, it's everything that I had. I didn't have much, but it was possible. And I tell people that and they're just like, they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, you can buy,
[00:06:09.803] - Freddie Kim
use leverage.
[00:06:10.773] - Jary Jackson
Yep. I leveraged the snot out of it. And there's some things that change structurally nowadays, but it got me in the game. And so that was really a life-changing moment for me.
[00:06:21.863] - Freddie Kim
What was this business? What compelled you to buy this specific one?
[00:06:26.743] - Jary Jackson
It was truly absentee run. The previous owner, you know, they were like— GovCon? Yeah, it was a GovCon business. So, government contracting and they just got handed these contracts and they weren't trying to grow it or do anything with it. And serendipitously, it was interesting because they were, in small town Indiana. I'd never heard of it. The only time I ever heard of it was an old teammate of mine worked in that area. And I called my buddy up and like, hey, have you heard of this company? And he's like, yeah. He's like, my wife and the owner are best friends. I was like, what? So, I just took that as a sign and kind of ran with it. So, I had a high level of trust with the owner, which is always extremely important when you're engaged in that small business M&A side of things. So, it had all the hallmarks of things that you look for in a business that you want to acquire. So, you know, reliable recurring revenue, very profitable, very successful over a long period of time, you know, didn't have key owner risk or anything like that. And I saw how I could shore up some of the risks with it and grow the business and, and do great things with it.
[00:07:34.703] - Jary Jackson
But I kind of always had like another thing in mind further down the future. With that. So.
[00:07:41.503] - Freddie Kim
Who was advising you throughout this? Because you don't— even though you leveraged the snot out of it, right, and you pay $30 grand upfront, you still need people helping you through the contracts, through the structure, through stock or asset sale. Who was in your corner?
[00:07:58.273] - Jary Jackson
You hear the phrase iron sharpens iron and you're like, you're the product of the people you surround. You spend, you know, the 5 people you spend the most time with. So shortly after I did that bootcamp, you know, those same people, they had like a co-office space that they were going to work with and surround other people that were trying to acquire businesses. So, I'm like, all right, well, hey, I don't know how I'm going to make this work, but I'm just going to surround myself with the people that are in this space. So, I did that and I, you know, I just bounced ideas off of other people that were looking for things. And then I, also in the Army, you see the, like, see one, do one, teach one type of deal. And so when I learned how to do this, then I also kind of started a fellowship program with the Warrior Care Program where, hey, other transitioning Veterans, if they want to get out and do what I'm trying to do, then hey, I'll, I'll show them how to do it, give them all the resources and everything else too. So, kind of going through those reps kind of helped me do that.
[00:08:55.303] - Freddie Kim
Good for you. And you're passing that knowledge on and sharing.
[00:08:58.453] - Jary Jackson
Oh yeah.
[00:08:58.773] - Freddie Kim
I'm an example. I've done it, right?
[00:09:01.143] - Jary Jackson
Oh yeah.
[00:09:01.363] - Freddie Kim
Good for you.
[00:09:02.093] - Jary Jackson
Well, that's the motivating part that I enjoyed the most.
[00:09:06.713] - Freddie Kim
So usually, first year after buying a business, it's the hardest year. The hardest year.
[00:09:14.913] - Jary Jackson
Oh yeah.
[00:09:15.743] - Freddie Kim
Walk us through that. How did you navigate that?
[00:09:18.703] - Jary Jackson
Figuring it out, right? So it's funny because when I thought I was going to get into investment banking, they're like, oh, you're going to work 100-hour weeks. And I'm like, I'm not retiring out of the military to go work 100-hour weeks. And now I'm working, you know, that first year I was working 100-hour weeks every single time just because my, you know, I feel like it lifts the chains off you to be your best self or whatever your inherent self is. And I'm very ambitious and I couldn't see, anyway, you're drinking through that fire hose. You don't know what you actually bought until you get into it and you have to get into all the details about it. And there's just all, all the things. It's like Mike Tyson says, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. And that's exactly what's going to happen every single time. So, you know, that's where Veterans and resiliency are and that hard work ethic are going to play because you're going to have to, you're going to have to, you know, know what your why is. You're going to have to dig down deep.
[00:10:13.443] - Jary Jackson
You're going to have to deal with all these crazy things. Like a month into day one after I get it, you know, I found out like, hey, I couldn't even qualify as an SDVSB because the way I structured the deal that I didn't even know about. And then like 2 weeks later, you know, I I got a guy that drives a forklift through a fire, uh, you know, a sprinkler pipe and bust that. And then like, I'm, you know, you're just dealing with all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah, you just got to figure it out. Yep.
[00:10:37.633] - Freddie Kim
Right, right, right. Well, you know, you've been through some tough things in the military too, so it, it's different though. It's business difficulty and resiliency. It's, it's different. Yes, you can do, you know, you have the confidence to do almost anything with your history and your previous, your prior experiences. But I feel like business in some ways it's more stressful, right? Some ways more stressful.
[00:11:05.873] - Jary Jackson
Yeah, I see it as I try to remind myself of that fact, like, hey, I'm not getting shot at, right?
[00:11:10.293] - Freddie Kim
Exactly.
[00:11:12.153] - Jary Jackson
but at the same time, like, I'm almost more stressed now than I was before because it's all self-imposed because I'm I got to get this done. I got to get this done and get this done so I can drive myself. But sometimes I have to actually tell myself to slow down and like appreciate the journey a little bit and like, oh, hey, this is where we're at.
[00:11:32.723] - Freddie Kim
So why are you here at Veteran Edge? And why did you recently join the CEO Circle?
[00:11:38.343] - Jary Jackson
Yeah. So another friend of mine was in the CEO Circle and he told me about this and you get to be, you know, around other Veteran business owners and, anybody who's been in the seat knows it's a very lonely journey. You're all by yourself, right? And so, you know, in the military, we do great, awesome things as a team, and you get out and then you lose your tribe, and then you, you know, you're a business owner and you're just running it by yourself. So it's incredible to be around other Veteran business owners that get it. I've even had my wife sometimes like, You know, we all have bad days and I'm like, you know, things are going this way and that. And then my wife will be like, oh, hey, I get it. And I'm like, yeah, you really don't get it.
[00:12:20.963] - Freddie Kim
But I know, right? Yeah. She doesn't know everything about it.
[00:12:25.173] - Jary Jackson
So, but here, you know,
[00:12:26.983] - Freddie Kim
people get it,
[00:12:27.803] - Jary Jackson
people get it. And then you can discuss what, you know, you can work through problems, you can work through issues, you can get clarity on things. And, and you're around other people that maybe they're more experienced than you, or maybe they've seen the problems that you're experiencing before and they can offer advice from, you know, somebody that's trusted because you already have that shared, you know, Veteran experience at a minimum. Right.
[00:12:53.093] - Freddie Kim
So, I mean, even, even beyond the people, it's— I mean, you have Syracuse IVMF, you have JPMorgan Chase sponsoring you, all of these other resources.
[00:13:03.643] - Jary Jackson
It's incredible.
[00:13:04.843] - Freddie Kim
It opens your eyes, right? Like, oh, it's like I could buy a business. It's like, oh, there's solutions for my problems already that I'm not trying to recreate the wheel. So great exposure to that. The AAR portion of this is talking about good leaders, good leadership, good leaders you served with and bad leaders as well. Can you give an example of both and no names required?
[00:13:33.203] - Jary Jackson
Wow. Let's see, my first team sergeant and then a commander that we had, both very, very good for different reasons. One instilled a certain level of excellence and attention to detail and mastering the basics that apply to anything, whether it's being on a Special Forces ODA or being in business. And I've taken a lot of those same concepts, you know, like, hey, the military, they spent 250 years, you know, developing best practices, everything from leadership to, you know, what have you directly applies to business. So he instilled a lot of those great things. Even when I thought I was doing, hey, great stuff. It's like, okay, hey, you need to do more, do more, do more, do more.
[00:14:20.683] - Freddie Kim
And so like, it's driven, satisfied, right?
[00:14:23.343] - Jary Jackson
As driven as we were, like, hey, we're all Special Forces, Green Berets, and like, hey, you earn it every single day. And it's like, it didn't matter how good I thought I did. It's like, oh, that was yesterday, or not good enough, it can be a little bit better, right? And so, there was that. And then the next one was, and this is where I really carry this over into my business, a commander who truly did not care about his career but cared about the people first and foremost. So, the first soft principle that people are more important than hardware. And so that, that was one thing that really resonated with me no matter what, and I adopt as part of our core values. And it's not just words on paper; I demonstrate it every single day. And, and, and we, and we make sure we take actions to demonstrate it. And so, I remember when I took over my company, you know, it was, it was void of leadership. And I wanted to make sure that, you know, the people were well taken care of. And I had a person there, their son had died on Friday, and he showed up to work on Monday.
[00:15:20.733] - Jary Jackson
And like, dude, what are you doing here? And he's like, I don't have any more PTO. I used up all my sick leave. This— he's in the situation where he could do it. I'm like, we didn't have any bereavement policy. We'll pay for it, take care of it. We're just going to take care of you. Right. And that was just like, I think that was within the first week that I had taken over and just doing things like that and taking care of the people because like they're what drives your business ultimately anyway. And so, I think of examples like that on a regular basis on what that looks like.
[00:15:50.823] - Freddie Kim
And you mentioned the soft truths, right? The 5 soft truths. Soft is special operations forces, you know, the just special ops. But they have these 5 truths. And number 1 is people are more important than hardware,
[00:16:06.483] - Jary Jackson
for sure.
[00:16:07.673] - Freddie Kim
If people in the audience, they want to reach out to you, how can they find you and why should they reach out to you?
[00:16:15.073] - Jary Jackson
Yeah, LinkedIn. I live on LinkedIn. So Jary Jackson, J-A-R-Y. There's not very many Jarys out there. On that. But yeah, I've got— I can give out contact information, but LinkedIn's the easiest one and I always respond there. But I'm very active in the M&A space, you know, trying to buy businesses, but also trying to help. I get people that they're curious about it and I'll take a phone call all day long and give— just give them advice or mentor them on it and whatever, what have you.
[00:16:43.983] - Freddie Kim
So, what is Therion doing? We didn't really talk about it, but yeah, let's hit that real quick.
[00:16:48.463] - Jary Jackson
So with CEO Circle, one of the greatest things that I got just right off of the bat was just clarity because, you know, I'd ended up starting a couple other businesses and I'm ADD as hell. And I had myself spread too thin, but I always had this kind of fuzzy goal on where I was headed in the future. And it helped give me the clarity, telling them like, hey, I want to, you know, I found myself self-limiting and I had the goal of like, hey, I'll sell a good portion of my company one day. I'll have some cash, then I'll have a track record. And then I can do what I really want, which is be a dealmaker, invest in solid entrepreneurs and solid deals, especially Veterans, and then do that. Then I can do that. And then I, like, last summer I was thinking, I'm like, I've caught myself saying that. I'm like, wait, who says I have to wait? Why am I doing that? That's me. That's self-limiting. And I'm like, I'm just going to do it now. And so, like,
[00:17:42.043] - Freddie Kim
yes.
[00:17:42.383] - Jary Jackson
And so, I'm like, this is what I'm doing now.
[00:17:44.703] - Jary Jackson
And then talking through that, I'm like that. That has slowly even morphed and grown. And like all my effort is focused on small business acquisitions and M&A and adding to that dual-use platform. And then we, you know, we were heavily focused on Veteran businesses and we want to place Veterans in key positions within there. And then that's even morphed into, because I'm also active in that, that ETA space, that entrepreneurship through acquisition piece where, you know, like I said, we, we, We spend a whole career doing awesome things as a team, and then people go and buy a business and run it by themselves, try to do it by themselves, right? Whereas like, oh, hey, if we can be an operating partner for you, leverage every single resource that we have to ensure that you have better outcomes, not just being a consultant or not just providing capital. We're your partner on that deal. That's what we really want to do. And that's where my passion lies. And to be being able to do that And then that kind of morphed into as that started to progress. And I'm like, people, multiple people would ask me, well, hey, have you thought about starting a fund?
[00:18:45.963] - Jary Jackson
And I'm like, shoot, that was another self-limiting factor. I'm going to raise a fund. So like, yeah, no, there's in a couple of months I'm going to start down the road to raise a private equity fund focused on Veteran businesses.
[00:18:56.783] - Freddie Kim
And wow.
[00:18:57.483] - Jary Jackson
Yeah.
[00:18:58.363] - Freddie Kim
Awesome, Jary. Dude, it's always fun talking to you, catching up with you, seeing what you're up to. I appreciate— we all appreciate you helping out. Good luck, my friend.
[00:19:08.633] - Jary Jackson
Excellent. Thank you.
[00:19:09.953] - Freddie Kim
Stay connected.
[00:19:16.433] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we seek to help Veterans build an even bigger, better future after military service. Unfortunately, for some of our Veterans, the roadblock to a better future is that they are not receiving all of the benefits that they earned. If you need help appealing a VA disability decision, contact Berry Law.