Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp: Hi, friend.
Taina Brown: Hi, I like your blouse actually.
Becky Mollenkamp: I love that you use the word blouse. You have a nice blouse too. And blouse is such a fun, like it's like trousers or, I don't know, it's one of those words that we don't use that often, but I love it. Thank you. It is, I feel like it makes me feel a little bit like an old lady with the word blouse, but also I don't mind. We could also say it was sophisticated. Anyway, hello everyone. If you're watching YouTube, you can see my lovely blouse and Tainas blouse. If not, just imagine that we're gorgeous as usual.
Taina Brown: Yes, it's a Becky's blouse is a dusty mauve color, dusty rose. Mine has stripes and embroidered flowers, and it's actually on inside out. I accidentally put it on inside out, but anyway.
Becky Mollenkamp: Well, no one would have known, but I love that you owned up to it. Well, we're going to talk about a smattering of random topics that are current events related because there's just so much in the news right now and so much that has me kind of worked up and excited. So I thought it'd be fun to talk about those things. And you're my favorite person to talk about these things with because my partner gets bored listening to me talk about these things. I don't know if you'd rather start with the biggest news, which is obviously the Democratic ticket has been finalized or if you would rather start with the most like fresh news, which is the Olympics just ended as of us. Well, as recording this are still going on, but when this airs, they will have just ended. And I have some thoughts about some of that too. So where would you rather
Taina Brown: I'll let you pick, actually. I could go either way.
Becky Mollenkamp: Let's just talk Olympics first then, and then we can keep our politics at the end. But just know if you're here for the politics, that's coming next. But then again, the Olympics are also quite political because the two things I wanted to talk about, although I think we could also talk about some fun stuff, because I would love if you've been watching any of it, I'd love to hear your favorite moments. But before we do that, the two big stories that I feel like kind of came out of this that maybe have a bit of a political bent, certainly because I feel like they get to some of the stuff we talk around identity are Imane, I don't know how say her name, Imane Kaleif, I believe, from the Algerian boxer, who has been just maligned and it has been absolutely horrific what's happened to her with JK Rowling and Elon Musk and some other of the turfy kinds of folks out there calling her trans and saying she's a man. And none of it's true. But the threat to her, like, I just don't even know how they can live with themselves. So anyway, that's a piece of it. And then the other story that I think is interesting is Mykayla Skinner. I don't know if you've heard any of this, but she's a former gymnast who had some things to say about the current, U S women's gym gymnastics team, which obviously includes some, the goats, some of them vials, but then some of the other members and her calling them lazy. have some of the quotes I can share when we get to it. I think the interesting thing in both of these cases is the way white folks wield their power and that the folks on the other end of this are obviously people of the global majority and the way that the framing of some of these things has been very interesting. So have you followed both of those stories and do you have thoughts?
Taina Brown: I definitely have thoughts. I will say I am not. Hmm. How do I say this? I don't follow the Olympics. So like if it's, it's not, it's not that I don't like them. I'm just like, it feels, like global gaslighting to me.
Becky Mollenkamp: It is. Like this is the one time. Well, there's two times. So every four years with the Olympics, mostly summer, I don't care that much about winter. So really for me, it's about every four years with summer Olympics and then every four years with the World Cup. These are the two times when I suddenly become a nationalist where I'm like, USA, USA, where normally I'm like, fuck this country. We're, we're totally screwed. Something comes out of me and I'm like, miss patriotic. But believe me, I completely agree. It's ridiculous what we do in the the displays of nationalism and and the ignoring of all the problems that are going on in the world and the way that like NBC frames everything with this like look at the world we all don't we all just want to get along and aren't we all it's just like yeah
Taina Brown: Yeah, yeah, we're all in this together. Again, that whole like, you know, ideology of just like, we're all equals on this equal playing field and you know, doing this together. I yeah, I don't I don't follow them. I like if it's on, I'll watch it. And so last week, actually, we were visiting friends in Atlanta, some of our friends were really, well, not really into it, but they were watching it. And so, you know, we watched a few of the gymnastics events. We watched some, I think some of the soccer and some of the judo. I do love figure skating. So during Winter Olympics.
Becky Mollenkamp: So you're the winter, you're the winter gal. just, I am not a winter Olympics fan. don't know. It's funny how people have, and you know what's funny is I hate summer. Like I hate heat, yet summer Olympics and summer sports, I find them far more interesting. Who knows?
Taina Brown: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think they get a lot more marketing, you know? I think they get a lot more visibility and attention than the Winter Olympics do, because I think Winter Olympics are younger than Summer Olympics.
Becky Mollenkamp: Well, they used to, I don't know, I'm old enough to remember this. You may not, you may, you're not that much younger, but we'll see. And I don't know about listeners, but did you know that at one time in our history, not so long ago, the Olympics happened every four years and it was summer and winter all happened in the same year. And I remember that. And then they split them. So it was every other year you're getting one or the other, right? But that I wish I could tell you when because it was old. It was in my lifetime. So it's probably around 1980 or 84, somewhere in there that they shifted that might even been a little later than that. So the Winter Olympics are I don't know if they're younger. They're certainly they've been around for a long time. But that shift, I think, really changed how much attention each of the Olympics get. I think the point was actually to bring equal attention maybe to both and to not have it be something where you have to wait four years. I kind of don't like that they did that. Anyway, probably neither here nor there for what we're talking about.
Taina Brown: So anyway, all that to say, I don't follow the Olympics, but I have followed a little bit those two specific incidences, because it's all over social media. I do have some thoughts, and I will just preface that by saying that these are my semi -informed thoughts. They're messy thoughts, exactly.
Becky Mollenkamp: They're messy thoughts. So there you go. I feel like we shouldn't even have to preface that every time. Just so you know, listeners, it's always our messy thoughts.
Taina Brown: Just a reminder. Yep. All right. So what are your thoughts on all of this?
Becky Mollenkamp: Well, I mean, I posted on social about that as well, about JK Rowling saying that I think I'm at this place with JK Rowling who, know, just first of all, fuck JK Rowling. Fuck her, fuck her, fuck her. She makes me so angry. I don't even think she should be allowed to call herself TERF. I don't think TERFs should be able to say TERFs because they shouldn't be allowed to use the word feminist. There's nothing feminist about excluding trans women from your, from your like idea of what not only what womanhood is, but what humanity is. And that is like, we're at the point with J .K. Rowling and these TERFy folks that it's not even, I feel like they're beyond just this place of like a good faith, I'm using finger quotes, debate about what constitutes womanhood. They are at a place of, they are like saying that a trans person is not human. Like that is the really, I feel like the message that they're at this point doing. And like, when you start to question the humanity of someone, you are not a feminist. There's nothing feminist about it. So that makes me mad. First of all, just stop saying feminist. Someone else said they should call her a Turk. In the C, we'll let you imagine what that is. But I recently also said I love the C word. So I kind of don't feel like she should even get that word. mean, but yeah. cunt. Yes, cunt. I love the word cunt, but I know some people don't like…
Taina Brown: Yeah, and we're, I'm just going to say it out loud. Cunt, right? We're talking about cunt. Okay, okay, yeah. Yeah, no, that's a good word. She is not, yeah, she's not deserving of that word. I agree. I feel that's a good word. I like that word.
Becky Mollenkamp: She's not deserving of any word. I love it too. Like I'm in a place, see now I'm go on a tangent too, but I just posted not long ago that I would love to read, like I wanna see the reclamation of cunt. Like I want women to like claim cunt in the way that so many have claimed bitch. Like no man gets to call me a cunt, right? No cis man, but I love that word. So anyway, my problem, what I was saying about JK Rowling is that I feel like we're at a place of needing accountability for the likes of her and Elon Musk and these people who are putting someone like, I mean, I hope I say her name right. I mean, Khalif. In a country where being gay is illegal, and I am not certain about being trans, but I kind of think if you can't be gay, you're probably not allowed to be trans allowed, right? To put a person's life at risk over your conjecture, there needs to be accountability. If something happens to that woman, and forget about even physically, already things are happening. I mean, she has been facing death threats and just having her name smeared. There should be accountability to these people that just go keyboard warriors who go out there and say the most ridiculous things without any anything other than just their feeling about what a man looks like or a woman looks like. It is awful. And just to be just quickly for anyone who doesn't know, Amin Khalif is an Algerian boxer who is crushing it. She's we will I see I feel bad because this will have already aired or the Olympics will be done. So she may have won the gold. She was going to the finals, so I'm not sure. Right? I hope so. She's like, I love that she's using this as fuel, but she had at one point, and I'm going to get some of the, you may be able to fill in some blanks, but there was some testing done with boxers. I think the way the governing body of the boxing world.
Taina Brown: Fingers crossed she won gold.
Becky Mollenkamp: Previously, they did testing and like chromosomal kind of testing or something and she had or test. It wasn't even chromosomes. It was testosterone levels and her testosterone levels were high. Not high as like a cis man's testosterone levels, but higher than significantly higher than the average female. I hate the word biological female because that's bullshit. I don't know what we would say, but the average cis females testosterone levels, hers were higher. And so from that just that little bit of information, which by the way is called a competitive advantage in the same way that like, what's his face? Michael Phelps has ridiculous lung capacity beyond the average humans. We don't say that he's part dolphin or something, so he shouldn't be allowed to compete. Like it's just a competitive advantage. She has a competitive advantage that she has more testosterone than the average woman. Most women have a certain amount. There are women who have way higher. There are women who have way lower. In the same way there are men who have an average amount of testosterone, some have much lower, some have much so she has this advantage. From that information, she went to her first, I think it was her first match against a white woman. I can't remember what country, like Czechoslovakia or something. That's probably not even a country anymore. my God, I'm showing, Croatia. That's where I meant to say. I'm showing my geography and my ignorance. think it was, yeah. So I think I went to USSR when it was still USSR. I'm so old. So I think she was Croatian. I hope I have that
Taina Brown: You're showing your age.
Becky Mollenkamp: But anyway, they fought 45 seconds. Imane got a great hit. This woman fell and started crying. White woman tears. And from that, people, J .K. and Elon, took it upon themselves to say, look at this man, this biological man beating up on this poor, helpless woman, right? So that's the background for people who don't know. The truth is, she was born with a vagina. First of all, I want to be clear, I don't think it matters. think trans women should be allowed to compete in the sports with the identity that they hold. But in this particular case, I mean, was born with a vagina. She was born with like ovaries. She was, she is chromosomally female. She just happens to have higher levels of testosterone than average for women. That's it. And they have taken upon themselves to now call her a trans woman to say she was born a man. It's none of it's accurate, but it took off on social media like wildfire as things can happen on social media. And this woman has been subjected to so much hate and hateful rhetoric. And I fear because of the country she's from, although I'm assured a bit by some of the social media responses I've seen from people in the country saying, no, we are proud of her. We know the truth. We will protect her. But it is scary because even if nothing did happen to her to think what can happen to someone if they are from one of these countries where that kind of information could lead to their death. And then there's zero accountability for JK Rowling, Elon Musk, whoever these people are that decide to do that. So my take is fuck JK, fuck Elon, but that's always been the case. But in this particular case, we need to start talking about what does accountability look like when you make these kinds of comments and you have that kind of platform.
Taina Brown: You know, if higher than average levels of testosterone is what makes a person trans and I'm probably trans because my facial hair, let me tell you, it grows.
Becky Mollenkamp: I have a I tend to have a deeper voice like there are and also by the way as a woman woman ages our estrogen levels go down so then we have more testosterone like it's just such nonsense.
Taina Brown: It's a variable, right? It's a variant thing. It's not something that's consistent across the board. So to say that because of that, that means that you're trans or you're not a woman, that's just one, that's just foolish. It's so naive. It's so ignorant. And I'm going to bring in just a little bit of theory and academia into this. So here's the danger with people who call themselves feminists but are exclusionary, such as JK Rowling. The argument that if you are not naturally, naturally, in air quotes, born with a vagina and assigned the identity of woman or female at birth is essentialist. And what that means is that it's making that part of your identity essential to your existence as a human being. When we get into conversations about, or when we get into prescribing identities to people and saying, this is essential to who you are, one that erases the complexity of the human experience, right? Because there is, outside of just being a human being, there's nothing essential about us because we grow and we evolve over time. Our identities shift and change because our identities are not just how we feel about ourselves, but it's also how the world perceives us and how that in turn continues to shape how we feel about ourselves, right? It's this cyclical thing. So to say that one part of you is essential to who you are, it completely erases that dynamic. It completely erases that cyclical nature of what it means, the complexity of what it means to be a human being. So when it comes to people like JK Rowling, one, yeah, I totally agree that she's not being what I, what we could call like a traditional TERF, right? Again, an air quotes, right? But she's also attacking the humanity of this person, right? Because there was, she makes comments like she has when Elon has made comments that he has alluding to the fact that this person is evil or this person has some malicious intent. Right? That's beyond attacking someone's identity. Right? That's attacking the person as an individual. That's stripping them of their dignity, of their agency. And so when I see things like that, there are two thoughts that I have. I'm like, first, quote unquote, traditional terfs, get your girl. Right? Like, because if you want to believe that, like, I don't think it's right for you to believe that. And I think it's harmful for, the idea of TERF -ism to exist, but where do we draw the line? But also, you mentioned white people using their whiteness to create these harmful narratives. When I see things like that, like, I need more white people to track them. That's where the accountability is. Right? Because me as a non -white person, I could sit on my phone all day trying to check them, but like, they're not going to fucking listen to me. They're only going to listen to people who have the same privilege and power that they do. Right? I need white people to check them. I need white people, other white people who have positions of power and privilege to not repost that shit, even if you're disagreeing with it. Right? Because the way the algorithm works, even if you disagree and you repost it, that's giving life to it, right? And because it's counted as engagement with the algorithm. Right? So like, I need news outlets to not talk about that shit. Right? When it happens, because again, that's giving life to it. Right? Like, at what point do we just say, this person is fucking nuts and we're just going to ignore them. We're going to take away that sense of power and privilege that they have, that sense of them having a platform, and we're just gonna ignore them. And eventually, not that they'll go away, but they'll figure out that this is not a way for me to behave, right? So it's a public shaming, right? That needs to happen. Also, I heard that JK Rowling has black mold and has had black mold in her home.
Becky Mollenkamp: Oh my God, if you haven't seen, yes, if you haven't seen the memes, it's amazing. Like there's footage, four years, like 2020, so not that long ago, there is like a still of her in the same exact room, because apparently it's where she always does her, you know, it's her backdrop. The difference in those four years, the paint has like completely faded. Like it looks like the home has aged 100 years in four years. And so I love it because and the walls like have this black mold creeping up. Like it was this beautiful space with green, dark green trim and everything to like a creep house. And it is wonderful because it is like the house is attacking her like it knows the white white women. I agree. You need to do more. But thank God for the black mold also showing up to help take care of this problem. And when you talk about that, too, it makes me think of Trump like we do like the media needs to stop covering. We this idea of like giving these these these notions these thoughts mainstreaming them as if we talk about them on par with the counter opinion as if the counter opinion has equal weight when it is like one is saying you know like instead of that let's compare it to like one person saying dogs are. Disgusting should be eaten should be beaten and someone else is saying like. Dogs are great. Like those are not like counterpoints. Right? if one person said, I don't really like dogs and someone else says I like dogs. Okay, these are sort of equal ideas. But to say, I like dogs and someone else say, I think dogs should be beaten within an inch of their life, strung up like what? Right? That is not, we don't, should not be giving equal weight. And I totally agree with what you're saying.
Taina Brown: It's not the same. It's not the same.
Becky Mollenkamp: I want to talk about this even longer, except that I want to be mindful of time. So I'm going to move us to the next thing, which is the Simone Biles thing, because it relates to this in the media piece. Because the biggest thing, so the quick background on this, Michaela Skinner, who was an athlete in the Olympics in 2020, she was a gymnast on the same team as Simone. Obviously in those Olympics, Simone had to leave, right? Was it 2020 or 2021? Whatever that year, they had the COVID Olympics. So she had to leave because of the spins or whatever they call it. But she's back again, like the oldest, I think, ever, 27, to win all these golds. She's amazing. She's clearly the GOAT. Michaela Skinner is sitting at home. She didn't make the team this time. She retired after the last Olympics. And she went on social media or wherever the hell she goes and says her things and was talking about this team saying that they are lazy. I'm trying to find the exact word she used. She said, the talent and depth of the team isn't what it used to Simone Biles on it. And she said that apart from Simone Biles, a lot of the girls don't work as hard and don't have the work ethic. So she's basically calling them lazy. And to be clear, this is one of the first times the team was four women of color and one white woman. That is very unusual in the world of the US gymnastics. Like it's amazing. But this is a white woman, Mikaela Skinner, calling this team that is primarily women of color lazy, and lacking work ethic is not only tone deaf, it is wrongheaded, ignorant, race. I mean, let's face it, it sounds incredibly racist. And so she got, rightfully so, a lot of pushback, people saying, what the fuck are you doing? That's not okay to do. And she did issue an apology.
Taina Brown: It's a racist. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp: I don't know, I didn't read the apology so I can't say, but my guess is it's probably a white lady apology, but who knows? So then when they go on, the women go on to win a bunch of golds. Simone posted a photo, she has a large platform, that said something like just a bunch of like lazy, unmotivated winners or something, right? Something that was very clearly directed at her. Now, Michaela has gone on social media with her white woman tears. asking Simone to retract it because her life is being threatened. And don't you know this is like, right? That whole thing. And the thing that's pissing me off, all of that pisses me off, but that is also so par for the course. I'm so used to the white woman tears and the like, OK, but the piece that pisses me off is what you just mentioned is the social or is the media framing of the issue. Good morning America is just happens to be one, but this is not the only one. But there are so many places where the framing of this is now. Skinner, who's a mom, right? They're posting in here. Skinner, the mom of a 10 -month -old said, Simone, I'm asking you directly and publicly to please stop this. Please ask your followers to stop. The whole thing talks about her. There's no mention, no direct quotes of what Michaela Skinner said in the first place. There's only an allusion to what was said. And the entire thing is about how Simone needs to do better now. And that is the framing that we're seeing everywhere. Like, Simone should be the better person here. Simone needs to do a better job. Right, so go ahead. have, mean, it's the media framing that's pissing me off about this particular story.
Taina Brown: I think aside from the what how it obviously feels very like racially motivated and I say that not accusing Michaela of being like, look at those blacks, right? Like, you know, like it could be just an implicit bias that she may not be conscious of, right?
Becky Mollenkamp: And I think that's far more common.
Taina Brown: That is far more common, right? But besides that, I feel like gymnastics, especially competitive gymnastics, is a team sport, right? And so you don't fucking do that to your teammates. Even if you're retired, I just feel like it's just bad sportsmanship to be.
Becky Mollenkamp: Not even if you're retired, right?
Taina Brown: An ex Olympian, take this platform that you have to call out people that you once competed with, right? To talk about a team that you're no longer a part of and to talk about them in a negative way. Like, even if that is your opinion, keep that shit to yourself. Like, this is not the time to bring that up. know, Simone's, as you know, I saw like headlines of like Simone's clap back and things like that, which it very obviously was. She didn't specifically say Michaela's name, right? But everyone knew what it was about. like, if you are now on the receiving end of just like negative attention because of something that you fucking instigated, like have that private conversation with Simone. Like, why are you putting that out in the public? Like you're basically like shoving her into a limelight that she did not ask for. And now the responsibility is on her, right, to correct this mistake that, again, you instigated. So this weaponization of white tears, that's... When people say things like, it's systemic racism, like, this is what we're fucking talking about. We're talking about the implicit bias will think of people of color or non -white people or Black people as inherently less motivated, looser work ethics. We're talking about systemic racism as the weaponization of white tears to force someone to comply or to behave a certain way to get a result, which is manipulative, at best manipulative, at worst completely racist. That whole thing, it's just aside from all the racial politics, I can deal with the racial politics, right? Because we deal with that every day. the whole bad sportsmanship part of it, that to me is salt on the wound. Because it's like, not only are you a racist bitch, but now you're like, you're just a bad athlete.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yes, seems like it really smacks of sour grapes of like I I want to be there and I'm not. I mean, that's what you it. So whether she means to or not, that's how she comes across. Which is so ultimately the whole thing, I think, is kind of pathetic. And I think from what I can feel, at least, you know, it's also always unfair because my sphere is tends to be people who share an understanding of politics and of humanity.
Taina Brown: That's how it comes across, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp: People get it that this is a Mykayla issue and not a Simone issue, but it's annoying that mainstream media is framing it. Annoying and also totally expected, of course, that they're framing it in this way. I want to recommend one book too. And you may have some other recommendations. I don't know. But “White Tears, Brown Scars” by Ruby Hamad is a great book to talk. I thought that I read about how white it's called how white feminism betrays women of color. I think another great book is Koa Beck's “White Feminism,” but “White Tears, Brown Scars” specifically gets at this piece too around this weaponization of white fragility of this like women. So it's funny because right, there's this weird dynamic of white folks framing or, you know, the racist notion of black folks being lazy or having a bad work ethic and simultaneously the black women are strong, right? And so there's this weird thing that happens. So I think this story just kind shows it so well where it's the framing of it is that this white woman says that these her these black women on this team are lazy. And then Simone is now expected to be the strong one and the better person the bigger person right and that Michaela now is even though she was one who calling them like lazy she's now the weak like pathetic.
Taina Brown: Yeah, she's the victim.
Becky Mollenkamp: Right, the victim here. so anyway, it's just a common thing that happens. And when you see it, you can't unsee it. It happens all the time. But I think we as white people, I'm speaking for me and my folks, need to read books like this, like White Feminism or White Tears and Brown Scars, to understand these dynamics. Because it's amazing once you see it. Again, you can't unsee it. And you start to realize the ways that I want to talk about our conditioning. And I feel like it's hard to reckon with and to notice, like, shit, I was conditioned that way. I am deeply conditioned to, as soon as I get on the defense, to feel like I've done something wrong, to then make it about me. I was one who did it wrong, but I'm now making it about me and how people don't understand me, or how I'm not really like that, or you're not getting me, right? And then it becomes all about me again. And all that's doing is like pulling people in to try to put them on my side. It's all part of the conditioning we get, and we want to think we're above it, but I have found the ways I have done this many times and how it still shows up for me. Because I still, like any of us who are in this journey, this messy liberation journey, you're gonna step in it. And I step in it. And when I step in it, this, like the defensiveness is the immediate thing of like, no, like you don't understand. And then when you start to feel that overwhelm of like, they don't understand me, the tears start to come. I just, feel small and weak and I need help and make me feel better. We want the person that we've harmed to make us feel better. And that is not what needs to happen. And it is our responsibility to unlearn that conditioning. One, to understand it's not our fault. It's not my fault that I received that conditioning, but it is my fault if I don't learn and do better.
Taina Brown: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, in situations like this, like it becomes such an interpersonal issue. And when it becomes, when the focus is on the interpersonal aspect of it, that we lose like the bigger picture, right? We lose how this is actually a function of how society works, right? Of the society that we live in. There's a difference between intent and impact, right? And I think people lose sight of that. Your intention may not be to be racist, to say something racist, to participate in a racist system or structure. But the impact of your words, the impact of your actions can still uphold that racist structure. It can still uphold those ideas of racial politics and body politics and sexuality politics, right? You can still uphold that by the impact of what you say and do every day. And in a situation like this, it's really important to remember that your intention, like that's for you. Your impact is how it affects everybody else. And so if how it is affecting everybody else is not aligned, with the intention that you had for yourself that you went into this with, then your intention no longer matters. Because then it's out of alignment. Then it's your job to make sure that the impact gets back into alignment with your intention. That is the work for you to do. That is the work for each of us to do day in and day out. That's the messy work of navigating a society still functions in a very racist way, in a very misogynistic way, in a very transphobic way, in a very homophobic way. That is the messy, nuanced work that we do every day. And so much of the issues that we see, whether locally, within our own circles, or in the public sphere like this, there's like this. It's almost like, you know, when tectonic plates are out of alignment and it causes like just chaos. It's like, that's what's happening, right? The plates are shifting and then it's causing like all this damage. And it's like, you are in control of your plates, right? Like you are in control of your intentions. You're in control of how well your impact is aligned with your intention. So just do the fucking messy work.
Becky Mollenkamp: And your pain that you're feeling in that moment, I'm going to speak as the white person in the room to the other people with the oppressor identity, the pain that you're feeling in that moment because of that misalignment of that feeling of, that wasn't what I meant. And now I'm not being understood because that is a difficult thing. Like none of us wants to feel misunderstood. That's really uncomfortable and painful. Those feelings are valid and real. That feeling of I'm being misunderstood and they are yours to deal. They are yours to tend to, not the other person. And I just want to recommend another book that will probably come up many times as we talk about this, because I just, I've never experienced a book that speaks, a book by a person of the global majority, right? Of the other side of this equation from me as a white person that speaks to white people about these issues in such a compassionate and understanding way. And again, it is no responsibility to do that. But I am forever grateful to Resma Minicum for doing it, to do that hard work for that labor of giving us my grandmother's hands, because that book speaks to how to tend to yourself in the moments when this messy work gets hard and you step in it. Because you have, we have to learn, we have to develop in ourselves as the people who have that oppressor identity, we have to develop in ourselves the resilience and the tender care of ourselves to get through it because we care enough to keep going, right? It's really, it is easy. It is the coward's way to just say, well, this got too hard. I'm opting out. Fuck it. I tried, you made it hard. You canceled me. See, you can never win. All that kind of stuff we hear. That is the coward's easy way out. And then just excusing yourself from doing the work. But I don't think anyone listening to this would be that person. We want to be in the mess. We know we're going to step in it. The thing that we have to learn is that when we do, it is our responsibility to tend to ourselves with compassion because it doesn't help in those moments to be like, I'm just I'm a horrible person. I, you know, I did this awful thing. I'm terrible. No one cares for me. I might as well just like go off myself. What an awful person I am. That doesn't help. We have to learn to have compassion for ourselves in those moments and tend to our nervous system. So that book is really, really, really great to help you learn how to do that so that you can stay in this work, fuck up, and then like tend to yourself, get back in alignment, avoid the defensiveness, avoid the like, nobody understands me stuff and like tend to your own needs in that moment. So I just wanted to point that out. Yes, my grandmother's hands, Rizwa Menachem is really great. Okay, I wanna give a quick shout out. This is gonna take us from Olympics to politics. I have mapped out this really great transition.
Taina Brown: That's “My Grandmother's Hands”?
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. So I want to give a shout out to the gymnast, Steven Notorecek. I don't know if you watched because he was on the, he's a male pommel horse competitor. so the men's gymnastics, he does the pommel horse. He has some sort of genetic eye disorder. He has to wear these special glasses. You may have seen him. People are talking about him being like Clark Kent. He wears his little nerdy glasses. He looks like a big nerd. To do the event, he takes them off and then he becomes this like superhero on the pommel horse, right? But he's got this genetic disorder that allow, I couldn't fully understand it. You'd have to go read about it. But basically, like, he can't see right and things move strangely and stuff, but he can't wear his glasses on the pommel horse because it's a lot of moving around. And I guess context can't correct this. So he basically, when he's doing his pommel horse thing, he is flying blind. Like, he has to rely fully on touch to perform. Anyway, he crushed it. He helped the men get a bronze. The men's team hasn't had a bra, hasn't medaled for 40 years or something, he helped the men's team, was the last competitor, they lifted him up. It was like this glorious moment. He went on to do really well individually as well. The reason I'm pointing him out is he's this big old nerd and he reeks of quote unquote beta male feelings, right? This like beta male behavior, meaning he isn't like all those other, he's not the alpha male out there, big strong really raw. He had this like sort of meek kind of looking body and these little glasses and he just looks like this nerd and he was the hero we all wanted and needed. And I just want to say the beta males, quote unquote, are having a moment. And it makes me thrilled because I am done with toxic masculinity. We all are. And I am so thrilled to see these men who are not exuding toxic masculinity show up and have a moment, which takes us to our new VP candidate, Tim Walz and the wonderful husband of presidential candidate, Doug Emhoff, because I feel like both of these men exude exactly like they are, they are showing that they are showing that we don't, you don't have to be exhibiting this toxic masculinity. You can be a quote unquote beta male and show up and be an incredible leader and be an incredible support system to an incredible leader. And listen, I have lots of issues with, with waltz or with walls and well, less issues with walls, some issues with Harris. And I haven't been this excited about a ticket since 08. And even then, these are not candidates who fully align with my socialist beliefs. But there's something about this ticket. I don't know. How do you feel about that?
Taina Brown: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I definitely feel like there's a different energy with this ticket. And I don't know if we talked about this before. For me, think I'll say I think the biggest reason why I feel that energy is different is because it feels like a different generation, right? And so it feels like there's this generational shift that's happening in terms of political leadership. And so it's kind of like, finally, the boomers are retiring, right? Technically, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're young boomers, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp: Even though technically they're both boomers, but they are barely they're like elder Gen X young boomer. They're kind of like me where I'm like just on the cusp of elder millennial versus young Gen X. like they feel like a different generation than me that even though I am technically Gen X and they're not. So, but they do have more of that. It just feels like instead of crotchety old grandpa who doesn't quite get why the world's changing this way, like they feel more like even if they aren't as hip and cool to, know, like the Gen Z world, they at least seem like they've had contact with Gen Z folks before.
Taina Brown: Yes. And that's what I was going to say. It feels like even though technically they're young boomers, older Gen Xers, they don't feel as out of touch with the younger generations. And so I think that brings a different kind of energy to the way that they're running the campaign. And so that's exciting to see. That's exciting to watch. When it comes to politics in this country, I'm a bit of a nihilist.
Becky Mollenkamp: Now you sound like Gen X.
Taina Brown: So I'm just like, we'll see. We'll see. You know, it totally brings out the cynical side of me. But I feel like it's, I feel like it is going to be like a really, or it is like we're literally watching history like actually play out like a very pivotal moment in history. Cause like every day we're watching history play. out We could make that argument, but I feel like this is a tipping point in history.
Becky Mollenkamp: And they feels like something radically has shifted since Biden dropped out. And all those people who are pissed when I said it's time for him to drop out on threads, I hope you're listening because look what happened. And it was time because I don't think he was going to win. just think, and whether that was right or wrong, as in should he have won or not, I think the reality was he wasn't going to win. And I think the Democrats bobbled that and it's on them.
Taina Brown: I agree.
Becky Mollenkamp: Knock on wood. I think they've got a damn good chance of winning this. I really do.
Taina Brown: I do too. I saw something online yesterday and it was like a Republicans for Harris rally. and you know, I saw something online shortly after Biden dropped out too, where they, some people were making the case that like, he was always going to drop out, but it was just a matter of when. And so they, it was a strategic move by the democratic party to like have him drop out after the Republican.
Becky Mollenkamp: Well, it was smart because they spent all that time talking about him and then he's gone and that's all they have now. They don't know what to do, which is awesome. And they don't have a lot of time to figure it out, which is great. If this was the stealthiest democratic play that they've known about for a year, kudos, kudos, kudos. Me too. And they may claim it was, but I want to know if it actually was. But if it was all all the kudos, because that's impressive, because I will tell you up until I think up until that debate was really the biggest tipping point. And I just don't believe that up until that point, this was going to happen. I think since then, and I do think they waited strategically to announce it from that point on, but I think it was that that really finally was the nail in the coffin. I just am shocked if they've been having this plan all along. But if they did, smart, amazing, and all the kudos to their strategist, because that's so smart. I am thrilled that it was out of the candidates that were there. None of the candidates that I would have chosen, but out of the ones that were there and thankful that it wasn't Shapiro or Kelly who have been incredibly vocally supportive of Israel and what's happening with Palestine. Which brings me to the last thing I just wanted to touch on. I know we're coming up against the end of our time, which is my grief and sadness over yet another member of the squad in Congress being ousted by AIPAC and that happens to be my particular, my Congresswoman. She still is for a little longer, Cori Bush. And I am just heartbroken. I, you know, I voted for her. I saw the writing on the wall, the signs at like, can just, there were Bell, her opponent, Wesley Bell signs everywhere. Nothing for her. I knew the amount of money that they flooded into Bell's campaign, something like eight or $9 million in this local campaign from to get him elected. There was just no chance. And the ads were so full of lies, just so pointedly misogynoir. It was just awful. And they were smart about it too. They put a black man against her. So it wasn't like they were running a white person. it allowed a little more of this ability to not come across as racist, even though it was clearly misogynist, so the misogynoir. I'm just devastated. the people that are, they're trying, Jamal Bowman recently, you the last time was also taken out by APAC. The squad's getting smaller. People who are like vocally and it, cause Cori Bush was one of the first people to say what's happening here is not okay. This has to stop. And she's been incredibly vocal and she's gone now. I mean, I hope she'll find herself into some NGO or something and do a great work. And, and I think she will, but I'm just so sad that we can buy and sell candidates like this. And it's not like it's some news, you know, this happens, but it really sucks when it's somebody who represents you. Like I finally had a representative who really was a voice for me. That's almost never happened. Like I've never had a truly progressive representative voice in Congress or even at a local level. I live in a red state. Cori Bush is in a red state. Missouri is deeply red, but she was in the only blue district or really like there's one other pretty blue district in Kansas City, but gerrymandering cost her because you look at the vote breakdowns, her old district voted more heavily for her than the I'm part of her new gerrymandered and district because our area is becoming more blue. So the, the Republican that used to represent us, they made sure that she could be safe. But that means this new district that she has was less solidly progressive, you know, where it's more centrist in my area. So anyway, I'm just really upset and I hate that this is gonna continue to happen and I worry for some of the other, like I think Jayapal is safe where she is. AOC seems to be pretty clearly safe. But if they can do this to Bowman, they can do this to Bush, how many people are they gonna do it to? And we need serious election reform.
Taina Brown: Yeah, they'll try to do it to everyone. They'll try to do it to everyone. And that's the unfortunate part of it, that in this country, you can buy and sell seats in Congress. That's just the way that it works. And I think that's why mobilizing locally is so important. But also, it's like it's sad and it's heartbreaking, but also as a black woman, I'm just like, can take a breath. know, like she can just kind of put herself, like take herself off the target for a little bit and just kind of recoup. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp: I agree, although I don't know that she's the kind of person who wants to. Like, I don't know if she sees it as, but I hear you and fully respect that. She's been an incredible advocate for reproductive justice, been very open about her own abortion story. So I hope that she finds a space somehow in that world to keep fighting and doing great advocacy work. And I'm sure she will, but it's just, and you know, the thing that pisses me off is foreign interests. Like I get buying and selling candidates, shouldn't happen at all, but to have this outside influence from foreign because AIPAC is basically representing Israel, right? This is a foreign nation playing in our politics. And we get so upset when Russia does it with all these other ways. But when it's Israel, somehow this is like it's separate. It's just really upsetting. And if you criticize it, you're called anti -Semitic. And that is also really, really heartbreaking for somebody who's such, you know, and I know you probably have had this experience as well, when you're somebody who's progressive and you truly care about humanity. like, am, I want, all of our humanity needs to be honored, including folks who have a Jewish identity or who are Jewish in religion, whether it's faith or ethnicity. I think that needs to be protected. And in the same way that I feel that about folks from Palestine or like anyone. And so when you also can see the horrors of what's happening in that part of the world and the brown folks in that part of the world are being treated. And then to have that turned on you to be called anti -Semitic, it's just really heartbreaking. It's just really, and I'm just, I don't know, there's no happy, yeah, it's a hard, this is not a happy way to end this, but yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown: It's gaslighting. It's gaslighting to be called anti -Semitic. Like, unless you, I mean, unless someone truly is, you know, anti -Semitic, to say, to say, to call someone anti -Semitic for saying free Palestine or, you know, from the river to the sea, like that's, that's gaslighting. Palestinians are Semites.
Becky Mollenkamp: Or to say that even if, and for folks who say I'm not a Zionist, the idea that you have to be a Zionist or you're antisemitic is also really, I think is gaslighting. And it's just really frustrating. So this is not.
Taina Brown: Someone who says that just doesn't understand like geography, history, culture, like you're just a fucking ignorant prick.
Becky Mollenkamp: There's so many of those. And social media really brings them out. Okay. I don't want to end on a really sad note. Anything happy you want to share?
Taina Brown: I do have a happy note. I'm getting back into. I used to be a really voracious reader, like fiction reader. And then college and grad school just kind of killed it for me because I was reading so much nonfiction. And for years, I've been trying to get back into. fiction reading. so I've tried audio, like usually I'll be like, well, let me just like read just like a trashy romance novel to just kind of like ease my way into it. And sometimes that helps. Sometimes I'm like, okay, let's do an audio book. And sometimes that helps. But I really just felt like I'm getting back my love of fiction reading. And so I've been listening to this audio book called “Wayward.” And it's about this genealogy of nature witches is what I'm calling them. And so it goes back and forth through three different timelines. And so it's, it's really interesting. So that I'm listening to that in an audiobook and then I'm reading “The Unfortunate Side Effects of Heartbreak and Magic,” which is a bit like Practical Magic, like the movie and the book, Practical Magic. it's got that kind of vibe to it. and I'm really enjoying that.
Becky Mollenkamp: I cannot believe it because I am just getting back into fiction too, like just recently because I was, I realize all I read, all I've been reading for almost a decade is nonfiction business, know, mindset, all this stuff. And it's been great. Anti -racism, all of these things have been really helpful on my journey. And I'm emotionally drained from it. And I'm sure you feel the same way where it's like that stuff gets heavy and and it's just like it's taxing your brain in a different way and it's not remotely escape, right? It is like engaged learning. And so anyway, I've been doing the same thing. I am currently reading “Red Island House” by Andrea Lee in a print version. I'm not that far yet, but it's just starting to pick up, which is good. Because at first I was like, I don't know if I can finish this, but it's getting interesting. And then I've been trying Romance, Taina, which I've never read. Like light romance, not smutty romance, not that there's anything wrong with that, no slut shaming, that's great for people, but I get uncomfortable with that. I just want light romance. Like rom -com is what I would call what I like. So I read a book by Tia Williams called Seven Days in August, I think it's called, and it was pretty good. And then I'm now reading my second Emily Henry book. So I've now read three romance novels in the last month, listened to. And I don't know kind of liking it. It's like watching a little rom -com. As I fall asleep every night, I listen to part of it. And I'm like, this is easy. It just feels easy. It's so nice. It's so nice. Excellent. Well, we'll put our recommendations in the show notes for anyone who wants to check out. The first one I read was The People You Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry. And now I'm listening to Funny Story by Emily Henry. I'd like to fake the first one better. And the Tia Williams one was pretty good, too.
Taina Brown: Okay. Well, if you like light romance, you should add one to watch to your audiobook list. I don't remember the author's name. I'm so bad with names.
Becky Mollenkamp: Okay, who's that? “One to Watch” is by Kate Stamen London. Okay.
Taina Brown: Yes, her. And so it's about a plus size fashion blogger who gets recruited to be on a reality dating show similar to like The Bachelorette. And so it kind of, yeah, it's really good. I really enjoyed
Becky Mollenkamp: Okay, I'm totally gonna listen to that one. Have you watched Michelle Buteau’s new show she had? Yes, my God, I'm so good in there, they're doing the second season. It just made me think of that. It was another, it's not just a romance show, which is nice. I like that she has a more rich life than that, but there is that romance component and she's obviously a larger woman and it's just so nice to see that reflected. So anyway, okay.
Taina Brown: Survival of the thickest. Yes. my God. I'm so excited.
Becky Mollenkamp: I do too. All right, we've gone long, but we ended on a happier note. Thank you everyone for listening. We'll be back in your ear holes next week.