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Welcome to Earth on the Rocks, a show where we get to know the person behind the science over drinks. Each episode will highlight a new scientist in the earth and atmospheric sciences to learn more about their journey, what interests them, and who they are outside of their science.
Host: Shelby Rader
Producer: Cari Metz
Artwork: Connor Leimgruber
Board Operator: Kate Crum, Betsy Leija
Funding for this podcast was provided by the National Science Foundation grant EAR-2422824.
Hi, folks, and welcome back to Earth on the Rocks, the show where we get to know the person behind the science over drinks. As always, I'm your host, Shelby Rader, and joining us today is Doctor. Erika Elswick. Erika, thanks for joining.
Erika:Thank you for having me.
Shelby:So as we get to know you over drinks, what would be your drink of choice or of non choice as was introduced last season?
Erika:I would have to say it's weather dependent. If the weather's warm, it would involve gin. And if the weather's cold, it would include a single malt.
Shelby:Are there specific combinations with either of those that you prefer in warm versus cool weather?
Erika:Oh, I do like a gin and tonic.
Shelby:Yeah. Those are pretty So Erika, you're sort of on the earth side of the Earth and Atmospheric Sciences department. And so if someone were to ask what do you do? Or what would you call yourself? How would you answer that?
Erika:I would say low temperature geochemist with stable isotopes and metals. And this is sort of a range of different types of work.
Shelby:And so how did you sort of get into this field? What was your journey into some of these different topics? And we'll sort of touch on a few of these as we go along.
Erika:Where do you want me to start?
Shelby:Wherever you feel comfortable. Well,
Erika:I fell into geology back as an undergraduate. I always had been picking up things, spent a lot of time outside as a kid, and my mother and father indulged that. And I had peanut butter jars full of rocks or snake skins or whatever I happened to be dragging home. And I knew that when I went to school, it would be science of some variety. But in high school, I kinda got into math classes.
Erika:And so I started out as a math major and then realized in math, you don't get to go outside. So I changed and started taking geology classes.
Shelby:And was there a specific geology class that you could remember that was sort of your moment that you knew, oh, I think this is something I want to pursue a little more deeply?
Erika:It was my first intro course.
Shelby:Yeah?
Erika:Yeah. Going to date myself, but it was looking in the textbook, and one of those classic shield volcanoes was pictured Mount St. Helens. And by the time that the class was over, it had blown up and didn't look like the picture in my textbook anymore. And that was probably the hook.
Shelby:Yeah, think that's one of the things I enjoy about the geosciences is that you can literally go outside and see the things you're talking about. But for something to change that way so dramatically too, a time that you're learning about it, I think would be yeah, it would stick.
Erika:Yeah.
Shelby:So while you're an undergrad, you sort of continue to pursue geology courses. So did you switch to a geoscience major?
Erika:Actually, no. I never changed my major. I never declared a major until about two months before I graduated when the administrative folks reached out and said, If you don't declare a major and file the paperwork, you're not going to graduate. And I'd done everything. I'd taken all the courses I could take, but it was that pesky paper one.
Shelby:So when you graduated, were you a math major on paper?
Erika:No. I got the paperwork in and graduated in geology.
Shelby:Okay. And then did you from that point, were you sort of confident that you wanted to go to graduate school?
Erika:Yeah. I always knew I would do that. I just didn't do it in a very straight line kind of way.
Shelby:Yeah. Well, I think that's that seems to be a common thread with a lot of folks who are in the field and who have sort of come into this Yeah. The show. It's not always a clear path, but we managed to get there somehow.
Erika:Somehow, yes.
Shelby:So what was your journey into graduate school and what did you sort of focus on while you were there?
Erika:Well, I was set to go to graduate school. And after I finally finished my senior research project and everything, I just wasn't ready to jump right in and took an internship instead with a museum out in Flagstaff. And that went from three months to a year and a half. I enjoyed that a lot.
Shelby:What sort of museum or what were some of the things that you were involved in while you were there?
Erika:It was actually in the education department of the museum. And so I spent the summer teaching classes to everything from seven to nine year olds all the way up to adults with the education department.
Shelby:And were most of these things sort of centered in geology or were you doing
Erika:Mostly in geology, but I also worked in the archaeology group as well there at the museum and taking students.
Shelby:Yeah. Yeah, think that a museum position like that, especially one where you're sort of teaching and involved with a range of age groups, would be a lot of fun, would probably be challenging. Challenging. But would also be a really good preparation for ultimately whatever came next, but in this case for graduate school because I think that being able to communicate those sorts of things is so critical for that journey and for where you go after that. So that feels like that would have been a really sort of enjoyable but formative time.
Erika:Yes. The first time I saw the Grand Canyon was with a group of seven to nine year olds telling them not to feed the ground squirrels.
Shelby:Which is harder than you might think because those Yes, things are really
Erika:they are.
Shelby:The first time I saw the Grand Canyon, so I had moved to Arizona for grad school and we did a new grad student field trip there. The first time you see it, I think, is so much better than pictures that you've seen. It's so much more impressive. Really sort of mind blowing.
Erika:Mhmm.
Shelby:And so we spent a weekend there and and we're hiking sort of at different levels of into the canyon. And yeah, there are signs everywhere, like, Do not feed the squirrels. Do not feed the squirrels. And they're so used to people that they have no fear. No And they will literally grab things out of your hand while you're trying to eat lunch.
Shelby:It's almost intimidating.
Erika:Yes, they don't read the signs.
Shelby:No, they don't. When you went on that trip, what was sort of the response of seven to nine year olds? Was this the first time that many of them had seen the Grand Canyon, I would guess?
Erika:Well, many of them live in the area, so they had probably seen it before. And they were just more interested in the wildlife and so forth than they were the canyon rocks themselves. But they were pretty into it.
Shelby:And so after your time at the museum, then there was a point where you decided, I think I'm ready to go back to grad school. And so where did you go for grad school?
Erika:Well, actually, I started working back in Dayton at what was then the Dayton Museum of Natural History. And I got a job there as the curator of geology. So I spent a lot of time doing planning for school groups. At the time, all the second graders came to hear about fossils in the Dayton school system, so I spent a lot of time talking about brachiopods and trilobites. But then, while I was there, I started taking classes at Wright State University and ended up getting my master's there in geology.
Shelby:And so you've really sort of been an educator in the field your whole life, really. Yeah. And it shows, I think, that you're really good at it, for what it's worth. Well, I enjoy it. So when you were in grad school, what was your focus
Erika:during My focus that was on sedimentology and paleocurrent indicators. And I worked on a unit that was near the Great Smoky Mountains. So I'd go camp down there and do fieldwork on my vacation time from the museum.
Shelby:Yeah, what a tough time having to go camp in the Great Smoky Mountains. So for folks that are listening that may be unfamiliar with some of those terms, what is sort of the field of sedimentology or what are sort of some of the things that you're trying to investigate during your time there?
Erika:Well, one of the questions was trying to figure out what the source was. And so where is most of the sediment that formed these very thick sequences in and around the Smokies? Where were they coming from? So I was focusing on one particular formation and was looking at things like the ripples that are left in the sediment and then lithified to see what the direction of current was to get an indication of where these were coming from. So I measured a lot of ripples, a lot of other sort of tool marks that are left in the sediment.
Shelby:So using these geologic processes to understand where sediment, so like small pieces of rock, are coming from that are then getting deposited near the Great Smoky Mountains, which I think would imagine a lot of people who listen to this, if they're not super familiar with geology, would be a little surprised to think of the Great Smoky Mountains and a whole bunch of sort of waterborne But yeah, that's one of the interesting things about the field is you can look at how these things are these areas are changing over really long or really short periods of time.
Erika:Yes. These were all deposited in a marine ocean type environment long before the Appalachians were ever uplifted.
Shelby:Which again, sort of strange to think about that that part of the country and, you know, even extending up to further north of what we now see as as The United States was at one time a shallow marine setting. We were covered in warm ocean water and would have been the place to vacation. And I'd say the Great Smoky Mountains are still a place to vacation So for very different after your time with your master's program, then what came next?
Erika:Well, it was during the time I was working at the museum and was actually working with a couple of people who were trying to put together labs for the paleo collection that Wright State was young university and didn't have quite the collections that some of the others might have for teaching and for preservation. So they reached out and said, could we look at some of the fossils that you have in the collection, especially some of the ice age mammals and things like that. And so that's when I discovered I really liked working with that older age group. So ultimately, I went back to school for a PhD.
Shelby:And what was your sort of focus while you were in your PhD?
Erika:Sedimentary ore deposits. So I was looking at lead zinc deposits and looking at one, trying to figure out why they weren't finding ore.
Shelby:Did you come up with a solution for them?
Erika:I did come up with a model for why they weren't getting any sort of ore deposits. So it's one of the few economic geology dissertations that has no ore associated So, with
Shelby:you know, for folks that are listening, every time we get to chat outside of this podcast, I love talking with you because I feel like you're so interesting and have lived all these different lives. And even this sort of like Master's to PhD shift, there's common threads. You know, you're looking at sedimentation and sedimentary rocks, but in really two very different fields. I would say it's not super common for folks to go from the things you were just describing related to the Great Smoky Mountains to now a focus on ore deposits, but you've done that.
Erika:Yes.
Shelby:And so do you think that's coming from the fact that maybe you have very diverse interests or things that just come through at different times that sort of grab your attention?
Erika:Yes. I think there's a lot of things that interest me, and I've sort of tackled going down some of those avenues to find out more about them. And during your time in your PhD, you're working on these ore deposits, like where are metals,
Shelby:in this case maybe not being deposited and why, but things that need economically, need for industry. And has that been something that you've sort of continued to be interested in as your career has continued?
Erika:Yes. But just circumstances have like the fieldwork out at the field station and so forth, have turned it more towards looking at the flip side of that chemistry. Instead of the formation of the ore deposits, how to clean up some of these abandoned mine sites and what's the chemistry involved there. It's the same stuff. It's just going in different directions.
Erika:So it's really not that far afield from where started.
Shelby:Yeah. So you mentioned the field station. So I want to circle back to that in a little bit because you're the director of our field station, which has, I'd say, a very large sort of footprint. A lot of folks are familiar with the field station. But you also do research that's related to that area.
Shelby:And so can you tell us a little bit about sort of the things you're working on now and some of the reasons that that area is such a nice location for some of that work?
Erika:Well, it has a very long legacy of mining in the area. Many of the mines that were originally developed were developed long before there were any kind of regulations and so forth. So there's a lot of exposed piles of material out there.
Shelby:And this is in sort of the Montana region?
Erika:The Montana, Southwest Montana. And so some of these mines are quite small. Some of them are quite large, like the one in Butte, which is the largest Superfund site in The US. But some of these smaller sites may pose more localized issues and so forth. And so as you know, we've looked a little bit at the water and we've looked a little bit at the soils.
Erika:But you and I have also collected some samples to look at plants and how they may be used for phytoremediation in some of these areas. But one of the questions is, as climate changes and conditions change, such as more water, less water, what does that do to the weathering of these piles?
Shelby:Yeah. So these a lot of these are legacy mines, so very And at the time, I think, you know, maybe people today have have an idea of what mining is like, and and maybe that's realistic, and maybe it's it's not so realistic. I think sometimes you really only hear about minds when there are really detrimental negative effects, which is a rarity now, thankfully, depending on where you are globally. But some of these older minds, there were no regulations And so people would pull stuff out and just
Erika:Pile it up. Pile it up somewhere.
Shelby:And over decades or over one hundred years or so, all of that reacts with the environment in different ways. And so that's really sort of the things that you're interested in is how has that changed or evolved over time? Are some of these areas still Problematic. Yeah, leaving negative impacts on the environment? And how can we sort of counteract that.
Shelby:So you mentioned a mine in Butte that's a Superfund site.
Erika:Yes, is. Can you
Shelby:talk a little bit about, for folks that maybe don't know, what is a Superfund site and why that area has been designated Fund site.
Erika:Sure. The Super Fund program came about in the late '70s, early '80s as a way to clean up some of these legacy sites from either industry or from mining. And they were ways to clean up and to deal with these sites where there was nobody responsible, nobody to pay for the cleanup. And so each site's a little different size, a different problem. Depending on where they're located, the level of remediation would be different.
Erika:So they're each very individual. But around Butte, the development of the Berkeley Pit was a way of opening up to get at lower quality ore from the previous underground mining. And the amount of material that was pulled out of there gave it the nickname the richest hill on earth because of all the copper and associated minerals that came out of it. But in the process of pulling it out and opening it up, it exposed a lot of minerals to weathering that are highly toxic in large quantities, and that's what the cleanup has evolved around. And not just the mine, but there was a great deal of processing of that ore on down the valley.
Erika:So it's a whole series of sites that are linked through this legacy of mining.
Shelby:And so you mentioned the Berkeley Pit. And so it originally was underground workings. And so at least in the area that I grew up where coal mining sort of dominates, either strip mining or underground mining is more common. And so that's where, you know, you find a deposit of something that you want to extract that's sort of localized, and you can just follow that deposit underground. And so that's where you would have these workings or sort of, cave like structures that you can move through.
Shelby:But then a lot of times, especially in the Western U. S, it is more economic or more cost effective to do what's called open pit mining, where you're extracting really large volumes of material. A lot of it's not even what you're interested in. It's just Right. It's in the way.
Shelby:It's waste rock. And so you end up digging these really large holes in the ground. And again, coming from the Eastern US, when I moved to Arizona and first saw an open pit mine, the scale of those is impressive. It is. Yes.
Shelby:And the Berkeley Pit is also pretty large. And one of the issues when you start to dig down deep in these pits, or even if you have underground workings that go deep, is the potential to hit the water table. So you really you don't want water there because it interacts with the material and can cause some of these environmental issues you're mentioning. But you also can't really mine easily when things are submerged underwater. And so you always need to keep those workings dry, which is one of the issues now at the Berkeley Pit.
Erika:They turned the pumps off in the early '80s. And they had pumped so much from all these underground workings that they created an enormous depression in the surface of the water table. And since they turned it off, the water table's been trying to normalize and has been returning to. And they pumped and pumped and pumped, and then they decided we've gotten everything out of here we can. So now we're going to shut the pumps off and slowly fill back in.
Erika:And that is where it's in danger of spilling over into the rest of the valley.
Shelby:And when it fills back in too, because you've now exposed all of this rock material that previously sort of preserved underground, you're starting to see all of these geochemical reactions that you And so the water that fills back in is not fresh water.
Erika:Oh,
Shelby:no. Can you talk a little bit about what the water quality there at least, or sort of broadly in some of these environments that turn into Superfund sites looks like?
Erika:So in many cases, especially when you're looking at these rocks that are dominated by silica, quartz, things like that, there's not a lot of buffering capacity like there is around some areas where there might be limestones that can help with the pH. So the acidity. If you have
Shelby:an acidic solution, you can sort of neutralize it like if you mixed vinegar and baking soda.
Erika:Yes. But with these, the acids that are associated with the breakdown and produced from the breakdown of some of these minerals can lower the pH to, on a scale of zero to 14, about a one to two Which is really acidic. Yes, incredibly acidic. And for comparison, the water here in Bloomington is about a seven plus or minus depending on the time of year. Very neutral, very non corrosive, non problematic.
Shelby:Yeah. And so now this Berkeley pit is full of very acidic water that also now has a whole lot of dissolved metals in it, which is problematic because you don't want those metals that are now in a form that can easily get moved around to enter the water table or ultimately, you know, the drinking water of the region. So you can look at this pit. They've turned it into a tourist attraction.
Erika:Yes. They have.
Shelby:Which is kind of an an interesting With gift shop. Yes. With a gift shop.
Erika:So yeah.
Shelby:And so you can go to this pit and and you can sort of tell the water's not clear. It's a little murky.
Erika:It's not even a good color.
Shelby:No, it's not a good color. And there's no vegetation around it. It's pretty sparse because the area is a little difficult to grow in. But then they also have to be careful about other things interacting with the water. So yeah, if you go to see it as a tourist, you're up on an observing platform.
Shelby:You can't get close to it. But you could have things like birds, Birds. For
Erika:And they have. Migratory birds have tried to land there on their migratory path and have been killed by the acidity.
Shelby:So now they have these air cannons.
Erika:Air cannons and noise that goes off during migration to keep groups of geese and so forth from landing.
Shelby:Yeah, so if you go to visit, which if you're in the region, should go and visit. It's very informative. Every so often, you'll hear one of these air cannons go off or some other noisemaker, and that's, yeah, to keep the birds from
Erika:Trying to land on the water. I was out there about six months after they shut the pumps off. And I remember seeing the pit with this tiny little blue puddle in the bottom of it. And to go now and see it so close to the rim that it's quite remarkable, the amount of water that has recovered in that water table.
Shelby:Yeah, it really is. I would love to have seen it whenever it was sort of first starting the rise. Yes. There's also there's other types of super fun sites. I personally always think of sort of like these hard rock mining sites, but there's even super fun sites all over Indiana, when I There first moved here surprised me a little
Erika:are three here in the Bloomington area.
Shelby:Yeah, and some of them are because of industrial products or things like that. Different forms of Superfund sites. In But the Western U. S, I'd say the mining related ones. Especially in Southeastern
Erika:and Western part of the state where a lot of mining has taken place. That is by far the biggest contributor to that. So,
Shelby:you know, it's sort of convenient to do some of this work in the region for the reasons you just outlined. You know, like there's this legacy mining history, there's all these potential environmental impacts, and so it's a sort of natural lab or natural classroom to be able to experience some of these things and examine them. But it's also nice because it's close to the field station, Which has been mentioned a couple of times on this show because we have several folks that go out and teach there. And you've taught there for several years and also are now the director of the field station. Yes.
Shelby:So can you first tell us a little bit about about the field station and what some of the goals of it are and maybe any of the history related to it for how it came to be.
Erika:Well, the history goes back to right after World War II. A gentleman by the name of Charles Dice was hired in the department here after the war to teach, and they discussed the importance of geologists understanding the field. And when he, before the war, had taught out in Montana and knew of this area. And one of the reasons it was chosen is it exhibits a number of different types of structural styles, ways in which the rock had been deformed, a number of different rock types. And it's all within fairly close proximity, so you don't need to spend a lot of time going from point A to point B.
Erika:So with that, they started adding to this site. The university bought a piece of property in Montana.
Shelby:So Indiana University owns property in the state of Montana, which is sort of strange.
Erika:It is. And the paperwork to sort that out apparently took quite a while. But that was seventy five years ago. And so we have had this site out there and have probably had over 8,000 geologists that have come through to learn about field skills and the scale of geologic processes in the field, which is a big part of why field stations exist. It's to learn about the scale of things and about how to put together a project within the field, how to spend your time because for roughly every hour you spend in the field, can spend ten or more hours in the lab or modeling the data or something like that.
Erika:So field skills are really important. And so IU owns this property, and the department runs a field camp out of the field And
Shelby:so for us, that's a six week program where students come and live on the field station and have this time in Montana learning some of these skills that you mentioned. And it's a really formative experience. I think that the field station and our field camp has a really strong reputation. Incredibly strong. Incredibly strong.
Shelby:And since I've been at IU, it's been surprising to me how impactful that time is for students, even if they're not an IU student. Because we also have students that are not from our department that come to the field station. You know, in six weeks, while you're out there, feels like a really long time. In the grand scheme of things isn't a super long time. No.
Shelby:But that really sticks with people.
Erika:Yes.
Shelby:And I think part of that's probably because it's such a unique environment. You know, you're like cohabitating with other people that are going through the same experiences. And some days in the field, it's great, it's beautiful, the weather's nice. Other days in the field, that's not the case. No.
Shelby:I would say everybody by the end of the six weeks gets tired of sandwiches for lunch. Yes. But it's this really sort of formative period of time for people that come through there. And so, yeah, it's been interesting to see just how much that six weeks resonates with people. And I'm sure as director, you've had lots of conversations with people where that has been a really vital part of their undergraduate career.
Erika:Oh yes. It's meant as a capstone course. It's meant to bring together all of those skills that you've learned in the classroom and apply them. You learn about problem solving. You learn about critical thinking.
Erika:You learn about time management. All of those things employers are looking for. So it really is part of a geologist's professional development.
Shelby:And just a plug: applications are open for next
Erika:Applications are open for next
Shelby:year. If students are interested, you should come out and join. Outside of the IU program, the Field Station also hosts other groups too. Are they exclusively geology groups or are there other groups that use the field station?
Erika:Well, field station has hosted a number of other classes out there through Montana State. Most recently, the University of Hong Kong comes out for three weeks during the summer. And we also have other groups that are educational. We have, in the past, hosted the Forest Service, runs a week long class for continuing ed for their folks out there. And we've had other groups from local universities, maybe not geology, but other science groups that have had work shops or things like that out there.
Erika:So we really have a six month window of good weather which we can have folks out there.
Shelby:So you also teach at the field stations. Yes. But as director, you also are, you know, involved in, like, setting the content for the course, for sort of the administrative tasks. But I would argue some things too that are a little surprising that maybe people wouldn't expect. Why?
Shelby:Yes. Are there any of those experiences as director that you might be be willing to share with listeners that may be a little unique? Because it is a unique environment. Right?
Erika:It is.
Shelby:You're in, you know, not super remote, but fairly remote Montana, very far away from Bloomington. So there are things that maybe come up that are unusual if you were to be here in town.
Erika:Learned a lot about rangeland fires, forest fire mitigation. Done a lot of that around the site in terms of getting rid of extra brush and so forth on the property that would be potential fuel for a forest fire. We've had them come within a mile of the field station in the past, most notably in 2012 when a very large fire in the next drainage over crossed the line of the ridge and came down into our drainage.
Shelby:Yeah. You can still see sort of the burn scar from some of Are those there any sort of wild animal experiences that you've encountered while you've been out there?
Erika:Yes. I had two moose wander through at breakfast one We've had mountain lions on campus. We've had bears on campus. They typically hide when the students are there. I don't blame them.
Erika:But after the students disappear, they creep back out. I've nearly tripped over a deer in the front yard. So, yes, in the dark in the morning.
Shelby:Yeah, so it's a really fun place to be. Like I said, it's sort of a unique experience. I think that's why it resonates with students so strongly, too, is because it's such a different environment for them. Yes. And during your time there, have there been things that have stood out to you in terms of the student experience or in terms of teaching students that you've really enjoyed?
Shelby:Because you keep coming back, right? Yes. And like I said, I think you're really good at it and the students think very highly of you and are very impressed and enamored and sort of mesmerized by your skills in the field. So have there been aspects of that that have made that enjoyable on your end as sort of an educator and director of that program?
Erika:I think the biggest thing is to see the development of people's self confidence. Know? They start out, we have very low stakes in the beginning for assignments and so forth to give them a chance to get over the new environment and learning new things, but then to be able to get out there and spend time developing their own thoughts about how to go about approaching geologic problem and doing the problem solving is really exciting for me. I enjoy that.
Shelby:Yeah, when I was a student and I also went through a field camp, not IU's, although I sort of wish that I had been able to experience that as a student. Before that, was exclusively in the lab whenever I was doing research. And we had some field trips when I was an undergrad, but they were around Kentucky. The rocks are very similar throughout the state. Lots of sedimentary rocks, very flat.
Shelby:For some people, that's very exciting. For me personally, that wasn't my can of worms. And so when I went to field camp, which was also out west, so it was in Wyoming and South Dakota, I sort of was not looking forward to it. I thought, I don't know. Like, I have to do this because it is this capstone experience, but I don't know that I'm gonna enjoy it.
Shelby:And it was so much fun. Yeah. And, yeah, even the times that were more challenging, because there were some tough weather days. Once you get past those and you can look back on them and be like, I survived that, it's really empowering. Think that, like you said, that's really a lot of fun to see the students make their way through that process.
Shelby:Yeah.
Erika:And I think it allows them to grow as people, not just as geologists.
Shelby:Yeah, definitely.
Erika:That's why I think it's such an important part of their professional development.
Shelby:Yeah. So I also feel like from knowing you through work that you also have had these sort of, maybe I'd call them, sod quests along your career. And so if I remember correctly, you were somewhere during your maybe undergraduate career, you took an ornithology class.
Erika:Yes. Did.
Shelby:And so that developed an interest in birds Yeah. Which has continued with you. So is that an aspect of of getting to go out to Montana that you enjoy too? Because you're an avid bird watcher. Yes.
Shelby:And you're very good at it. For folks that are listening, I went bird watching with Erica in Bloomington once and still to this day talk about how impressed I was when we were leaving. Erica's driving, so as, you know, as she should, is paying attention to the road. All of a sudden stops and says, well, there's a bald eagle. And I'm like, where?
Shelby:I don't see anything. And you're pointing, you know, sort of out in some direction again. I still don't see anything. And you pull the car over. You you get out your scope and set it up.
Shelby:And lo and behold, very far away, it felt like to me, there is this beautiful bald eagle that you had spotted as you're driving because you're you're genuinely that good at birding. And so are there aspects of being at the field station related to sort of your interest in ornithology that you enjoy?
Erika:Oh, yes. Definitely part of it. I took ornithology the last semester of my senior year because I needed another course. And I think I would have been very much at home in the 1800s as a naturalist because it all is interesting to me, being outside there. And I think the birding has only added my fieldwork because when the rocks aren't giving you much information, there's always a bird to look at.
Erika:It's a nice diversion.
Shelby:Has there been a standout bird for either Indiana or Montana for you? They're all interesting,
Erika:you know? When I did fieldwork for my dissertation, there was a whole new group of birds to sort of add to my list of interesting things to look at. When I was doing my master's down in The Smokies, there's a whole group of birds that you don't see around here that were interesting. So, yeah, my binoculars go everywhere with me.
Shelby:You've spoken like a true naturalist. They're all interesting. Yes, Yes. So, side quest that if you feel comfortable talking about it, that every time the students find out, they're so impressed and so intrigued. You had a stint as a bouncer.
Erika:Yes, I did. Two, right? Yes.
Shelby:Can you tell us a little bit about that? What what was that like? Because I think if people knew you, that's why it's so interesting because even you can probably tell, you have a very great radio voice. You have you have this very calm, even voice.
Erika:Well, that's because no one expects a Spanish Yes. I worked for a while at a pizza place in Flagstaff that yes, I was not only the cook but the bouncer. And I had to exercise that on more than one occasion. So you've done it all. I have done it all.
Shelby:I didn't realize that you were a cook while you were there, too.
Erika:Oh yeah.
Shelby:Yeah, you can multitask.
Erika:I can multitask. And that came in
Shelby:handy because you also had a stint cooking at the field station
Erika:I when did one one summer, yes, when our cook quit for the summer. So yeah.
Shelby:Yeah, you really are a jack of all trades, Erica.
Erika:Like I said, I'd been right at home in the 1800s.
Shelby:For folks that are listening, especially maybe students that are sort of interested in the field or some of the things you've talked about or even a field experience, do you have advice for them or sort of like words of wisdom or if you could go back and tell your younger self something to carry with you.
Erika:Wow, I guess a lot of it would be to be open to all kinds of opportunities when they show up, not be afraid to take them.
Shelby:Yeah, think that's great advice. And I think, you know, we started this talking about how sort of you have these really diverse interests and you really have found ways to utilize them in these really interdisciplinary and interesting ways and also use them to just sort of enjoy yourself with sort of the birding when you're in different places. And I think that yeah anytime that you can be open to opportunities, be curious, you never know where that's gonna lead. So think of every experience as a chance to learn something new.
Erika:And you never know what might find a connection to what you thought you were really interested in and how that might turn into something very rewarding.
Shelby:Yeah. So we end each episode with our Yes, Please segment, where we each get a minute to talk passionately about something that interests us in the moment. And so I always give folks option. You can go first or I can go first. Go ahead.
Shelby:Okay. If you don't mind to Tom me. Go. Okay. This is my yes, please segment for today.
Shelby:Speaking of looking at things as opportunities to learn, yes, please, let's all go enjoy local festivals. Kentucky is known I think they're known. I personally know Kentucky as a state that has a lot of really strange festivals. It's like a thing that every county has a different festival that celebrates something that's unique to that area. And I think that is so fun.
Shelby:You get to learn a lot about sort of the culture of the different areas. The town I'm from every April has the Mountain Mushroom Festival, which celebrates the Morel Mushroom, which I didn't realize was something worth celebrating, but it absolutely is. It draws a really big crowd. A town nearby has the Woolly Worm Festival, which celebrates essentially a fuzzy caterpillar that is believed to be sort of old wives' tales, a representation of how mild or difficult the winter is gonna be. So the the caterpillar has 13
Erika:is that my time? That's your time.
Shelby:That was quick. I didn't even get to half of my festivals.
Erika:Half of your festival. I'm going over my time. Go over your time limit.
Shelby:The worm has 13 segments that each color each one has a different color sometimes that can represent a specific week of the winter. There's a possum festival in Kentucky. There's the World Chicken Festival, which celebrates Colonel Sanders, which is one of Kentucky's claim to fame, KFC. And then there's Court Days, which I also used to go to all the time growing up, which is Kentucky's longest running festival. It started sometime in the seventeen hundreds, I think, and at the time it was an opportunity for people to gather in town and buy, sell, and trade, and so that sort of idea has persisted.
Shelby:And so whenever court days happens, it's like a three or four day long weekend where people come and and, yeah, buy, sell, trade, all sorts of stuff. So it's it's a fun time. So, yes, go and check out your local festivals. You never know what you're gonna find. No.
Erika:To add to your list for future, the sauerkraut festival over in Ohio. Oh, what part of Ohio? Just North of Cincinnati.
Shelby:I'll have to check that out. I love a good food festival. Yes. You know Bloomington used to have the garlic festival, which I'm a huge garlic fiend and loved it, but they haven't had it the last couple of years. And so, yeah, this is my request for somebody to bring that back because the garlic based food was fantastic.
Erika:Right? Sauerkraut ice cream I don't recommend.
Shelby:Oh, wow. I kind of want to try it just to say I have because I that is would imagine that is interesting.
Erika:Yes, that's a good word for it.
Shelby:So Erica, whenever you're ready, this is your Yes Please segment.
Erika:Yes Please. I guess mine would be about birds. I really think that they have a lot to tell us about the environment, about the health of the environment, and thinking about some of those very tiny creatures that travel from Canada all the way back down to South America twice a year, that's a pretty impressive creature. That's a migration and a half. You've thirty seconds?
Erika:Thirty seconds. Oh my goodness. Well, I guess it would be the notion that birds of a feather stick together. And so they all hang out together at the feeder, but people are kind of the same way.
Shelby:They are sort of the same way. I know you said before when it came to Indiana and Montana birds, you liked them all equally. But overall, do you have a favorite bird or maybe like an elusive bird that you really want to be able to see sometime that you haven't yet?
Erika:Well, there was one that I saw last year for the first time. And it's one of those that you see in the field guide. And you read the description and it says they're very elusive. And you think, I'm probably never going to see that, cause it would require sitting around in a marsh with a lot of mosquitoes waiting for it to show up. And on my way back, I drove through Yellowstone and I got out to look at some ducks and there it was, the Sora rail wandering along the marsh.
Erika:No mosquitoes to worry about.
Shelby:That's the ideal situation.
Erika:It is the ideal situation and I looked and said, That is a Sora rail. It's like I've seen it so many times in a book and never thought I would see one in person.
Shelby:If you had to guess a number, how many individual species of birds have you seen over your birding career?
Erika:Probably over 500.
Shelby:Wow. Do you keep track of all of them?
Erika:As a science geek, yes.
Shelby:That's very impressive. And like I said, I'm still amazed at your birding skills. You're very good at it, as you are with many things. Well, thank you. And thank you for coming onto the show today.
Erika:Certainly. Thank you for having me
Shelby:It's been a lot of fun. And for folks listening, we'll see you next week with a new episode. Earth on the rocks is produced by Cari Metz with artwork provided by Connor Leimgruber, with technical recording managed by Kate Crum and Betsy Leija. Funding for this podcast was provided by the National Science Foundation grant EAR dash 2422824.