The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

Brief Summary of Show:

 

In this episode of The Silvercore Podcast, Travis Bader speaks with Kyle Stelter, who is a past president of the Wild Sheep Society of BC and a director with the Wild Sheep Foundation. 

 

Kyle and Travis speak to the allure of sheep hunting, having a good hunting partner and how to find one, pushing yourself to the limits, gear, and how you can help support conservation for wild sheep and other mountainous animals.

 

If you have a story that would be of value to the Silvercore audience, or know someone who does, email us at podcast@silvercore.ca.  We would love to hear from you!

 

Topics discussed in this episode:

 

 

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

Silvercore Podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

people in businesses that
comprise the community.

If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

you can learn more about
courses, services, and

products that we offer
as well as how you can

join The Silvercore Club,
which includes 10 million

in North America wide
liability insurance, to

ensure you are properly
covered during your

outdoor adventures.

This episode, The Wild
Sheep Society of British

Columbia has taken it
upon themselves to step

up and be the change that
they want to see when

it comes to protecting
hunting rights in BC.

They are a small
nonprofit organization

that it's carrying
a heavy load.

And this episode is
designed to help them get

their message out as well
as to involve you, the

listener in an effort to
crowd source solutions

as we move forward.

A quick reminder to
check out the over $6,000

firefighter training
package at the Training

Division in Texas,
that The Silvercore

Club is giving away.

Check out our
website for details.

We're live.

Today I'm speaking with
Steve Hamilton and Greg

Rensmaag of The Wild
Sheep Society of BC,

as well as The Talk
is Sheep Podcast about

predator hunting and the
social license to hunt.

Gentlemen, welcome to
The Silvercore Podcast.

Thanks for having us.

So why don't you to
provide a little bit of

background on this whole
social license to hunt.

This is a new
thing for me.

I been doing
some research.

I'm learning about social
license to operate and

what all of that entails.

How did this come about?

Do you want to take
this one, Greg to that?

Sure.

Well, basically social
license is exactly

what it sounds like.

What is socially
acceptable in our times?

Uh, as we, as we've
seen, there is a lot

of emotionally charged,
uh, imagery out there,

whether or not it's
regards to hunting,

fishing, or just
anything in general.

We've all seen those
commercials out there on

Christmas, where they've
got the polar bears

and they're coming into
the, the, the have a

Coca-Cola with the family
and you're seeing the

Sharman bears and they're
advertising toilet paper.

So they're essentially.

Putting the cute and
cuddly on what is a

wild animal and their
argument around that is

that, uh, the, these,
these, these animals are

sent to you at beings.

They have families and
they're, they're trying

to essentially demonize
what is it, legal

and ethical practice
managed by science.

And that social license
means we need the voting

support to, to, to
continue what we do.

And that's what they're
going after right now.

Got it.

So thinking about
social license, and I

think I've told this
story before in The

Silvercore Podcast, but
I can remember a number

of years ago and the
corporation of Delta at

the time before it became
a city of Delta went

and decided they did not
want any other firearms

businesses in, in Delta.

And so they had a big
meeting at the town hall

and I came in, armed
with all my facts and

all my stack of papers.

And I started, they
gave me a forum.

I started talking and
about, I don't know,

five minutes into it.

One of the individuals
stands up, says, Travis,

hold on a second.

Do you have much
more of this?

Like I do.

Why he said, well,
let me tell ya.

I, 100% agree
with everything.

You're saying all
the facts that

you're spitting out.

I agree with 100%,
but here's the thing.

If we think that our
constituents want us to

ban firearms businesses
from Delta, then we

have to take a look
at banning firearms

businesses from Delta.

And I was flabbergasted.

I think it was in my,
I don't know it was,

uh, late twenties, mid,
mid to late twenties.

And I never had that
level of honesty from

a political type.

And I had no
rebuttal to that.

I had none of the
stats, none of the

numbers made any sense.

It was.

Do we feel that
people may want us

to ban the firearms
businesses in Delta?

And it sounds like
the exact same thing

that's happening here.

That's exactly
what it is.

And, uh, what, what
people have now

realized is that when a
politician is elected,

they're essentially
their employee, right?

So the voters can
dictate whether or

not they hire or fire.

So they do listen to
the social license.

They do listen to the
push and they have acted

on it before, which
I imagine we'll get

into a bit later with
the grizzly bear hunt.

That's right.

Yeah, well, we can,
we can talk right now.

Sure.

The, the grizzly
bear hunt, they

put a moratorium on
hunting, grizzly bears

in British Columbia.

They said ban can't hunt
grizzly bears in British

Columbia, but if I'm
not mistaken, wasn't it

based on something that
happened in Alaska, some

sort of social media
outcry that happened

in Alaska, my right on.

There was a, uh, a poor
taste video that was out

there of, uh, a bear not
having the, the quickest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Greg and I admin a couple
of, uh, hunting websites.

And as soon as that
got posted, we both

messaged each other and
went, Oh, here we go.

It, uh, it, it
did us no favors.

And, uh, yeah, it
w this, it, it was

used to further in
emotional agenda for

a scientific argument.

Um, and what it all boils
down to is that social

license as hunters, uh,
we, we strive to be the.

That the quickest,
most, most ethical

kill for our, our,
our, uh, quarry.

And when we see something
like that, we know, well,

number one, it's what
the hell are you doing?

Posting that on social
media and two it's.

Oh, damn.

This is going to be used
to further an agenda.

So when, when they
did close the grizzly

bear hunt, it was on,
it was on, uh, well,

I'll be straight lies.

Uh, they originally put
out as their platform

that they were going
to ban the trophy hunt

only, and they put it
out to public input and

said, what that trophy
hunt looks like is a meat

retention, which every
hunter I ever talked

to was on board with to
put it on par with black

bears and remove the hide
in the head and which is

on part with black bears.

So, uh, vote,
vote goes down.

They get in a.

The legal hunt for the
Leh closes November 30th

and all of a sudden,
December 17th, uh,

2017, just before the
legislature, legislature

sat for Christmas, they
went, the hunters closed.

So they yanked it
out completely on us.

And that's what we're
concerned about here

with the, uh, ActNow
campaign is because

they've, they've got an
inch and they're going

to go for the full mile.

So could you fill me in
on the ActNow Campaign?

You want to
take this Greg?

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

So just right now,
there's organized efforts

by multiple groups to
try to stop our privilege

to hunt the large
carnivores and BC and

her, uh, specifically
named are wolves, cougars

and black bears, uh,
mountain sheep, and elk

have also been listed
as trophy animals.

Is that kinda, that's how
the grizzly bear hunt.

So that that's how
the grizzly bear band

started was listing
it as a trophy hunt.

So that puts all of
them in jeopardy.

Um, we're just, we're
looking for the hunting

community to kind of come
together and stand up for

science-based wildlife
management with us.

So, yeah.

And it's, as Greg said,
it's about science-based

management, no hunter
out there, uh, or

conservationists wants
to see extirpation

or extinction of
a species at all.

If science dictated
that a hunt needed to be

closed due to numbers,
we'd be going hell yeah,

we backed that 100% and
a former minister of

FLNRO when the hunt was
closed for the grizzly,

uh, Doug Donaldson said
it wasn't about numbers.

It wasn't about science.

And he admitted that
it was populism and

the vote saying that
is what was closing it.

And that's what we're
up against again.

Uh, It's we, we owe
it to wildlife to

manage it properly.

And where the disconnect
a lot of people seem

to get, unfortunately
is they say, let

nature balance itself.

And they, they forget.

And they remove
themselves from being

a part of nature.

We have an impact as
human beings, you live

in a house, you drive
a vehicle, you'll walk

on a road, you ride
a bicycle, no matter

what, you're having
an impact on nature.

And we, we need to,
to manage accordingly.

And that's what
ActNow is about.

It's not just
about hunting.

It's about
seeing wildlife

managed properly.

I was speaking with
Shane Mahoney recently,

and he's say, so you
know who Shane is?

I think he was a keynote
speaker at one of your

events a couple of
years ago, actually.

And he says, you know,
people will ask me.

How can you have these
feelings and be a hunter?

How can you care for
the wildlife like

this and be a hunter?

And he says, it's not
a question of there

being a different set
of rules for me as there

is for the wildlife.

That's the reality is,
is I am one of them.

That's right.

And the idea of being of
us humans being socially

removed from this whole,
uh, from wildlife in

nature, I guess it's
a nice altruistic

thought, but it's not
in line with reality.

And that's what
it's about.

Right.

That's where
people forget that.

So you guys have a,
it's not a petition.

No, but, but
it's a, a form.

I filled this out.

What would you
guys call it?

Yeah, an organized
letter campaign.

Okay.

And this organized letter
campaign can be found

on your own website.

That's right.

Uh, uh,
www.wildsheepsociety.com

forward slash ActNow
we've typed that

out so many times.

It's probably ingrained
in my subconscious

and basically
it's, it's 15 to 20

seconds of your time.

You click enter
and the website

populates for you.

You've got to enter
your name, first

name, last name, and
your email address

and email address.

Isn't for us, it's
for the elected

official to be able
to respond to you.

We've had a couple of
people say that they're

concerned about getting
spam emails from us,

and that's not the case.

So your first name,
last name, uh,

your email address.

So the elected official
can contact you.

And then there's a
dropdown where you

can put in the email
address of your MLA.

So no matter who it is,
you can put it in there.

And the cool thing
is we've made it.

So anybody who stands
with us that doesn't

necessarily live
in British Columbia

can have a stance.

There's a not applicable
email address.

So these emails will
still go to a premier

Horgan, uh, minister
of FLNRO, and a couple

others saying we stand
with a science-based

wildlife management
and that, and that's

the key there because
it's, as I said, it's

not just about hunting.

It's about anybody
who stands with sound

wildlife management,
and wants to see

wildlife and perpetuity.

So whether or not you
are a, a tourist that

comes up from the United
States and just love

to see a moose on the
landscape, or if you're

a wildlife photographer
who enjoys seeing wild

sheep throughout spences
bridge area, you can have

a stand in this as well.

And we need anybody who,
uh, who, who wants to see

it in perpetuity to sign.

So right now, the big hue
and cry is around wolves.

If I'm not mistaken,
PR predominantly

about PR predator
hunting, but wolves.

That's correct.

It's uh, it's the one
that people can grab

onto easily because,
uh, that they look like

your pet dog, right?

They're the same family,
but you hear about it

all the time, right?

They're they're
not is cute.

And cuddly is we'd
love them to believe.

Right?

Do I've seen dozens of
wolves on the landscape

and they're one of
the most beautiful

animals out there.

And completely love
and respect them.

They are the majestic
beings that they're

portrayed to be, but
I'm pretty sure anybody

out there that, uh,
knows the reality, like

Greg will back up on
this, but what makes

a wolf more important
or more beautiful on

the landscape than say
a caribou that we're

watching go extinct in
certain population units

because of a predation.

So it's, they've, they've
escalated wolves up

here because of the
cute and cuddly factor

where I'm guessing.

And because it's a,
it's a, it's something

easy to grab a hold of.

Sure.

You don't see the
save the spiders

campaign, right?

Oh no.

My wife would kill me
if I ever backed out.

Exactly.

So.

I understand that
this letter writing

you've guys have
made it so easy.

Just a couple of
minutes, they put their

information in and
we'll put links on our

website and we'll put
links up on the YouTube

channel and through
social media, what's

the traction been like?

I got, uh, as a 1:00
PM today we're at,

uh, 9,492 letters or
people that signed up,

which equates to 47,460
letters that have been

sent to the different
levels of government.

Okay.

And that's 9,000 out
of 115,000 hunters.

Yeah.

Pretty, pretty dismal
since we started this.

What?

February 25th at launch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And one of the most
concerning things I

guess, is that I know
I have, and Greg has,

and a few others have.

Uh, faced pushback by
the hunting community

themselves saying that
they don't believe we're

under attack and we've
got direct quotes and

people saying, well,
we should have to get

a trapping licenses
to, to hunt predators,

or we will never ever
lose a black bear hunt.

And we just go,
did you not see the

grizzly bear hunt?

They've got the inch,
they're gonna take

the mile and they're
going to chip away.

They're absolutely going
to chip away because

on some of these pages,
I've seen quotes from

anti, uh, organizations
and their members say,

uh, nobody will hike for
14 days to get a goat

and bring out all 60,
70, 80 pounds of meat.

So you know where
they're going with that?

Goats, goats, and sheep,
because they're trophy.

Right.

And I could, I could
show them a freezer

full of bear and
deer and you name it.

And they're still
going to look for holes

to punch in there.

And it's, as you said,
hunters love wildlife.

We do not want to
see it go extinct

or, or extirpated in
any population unit.

And this is about so much
more than, than hunting.

So is that, do you have
a multi-pronged approach,

to a rebuttal, to the,
uh, attack against see

the predator hunting?

Or is this a
singular prong?

We're in phase
two right now.

Uh, the idea is to,
uh, in June, we're

going to take these
physical letters and

present them to elected
officials in Victoria.

How that's going to look
with COVID restrictions.

We're not sure, but the
idea is to take every

single letter, print it
off and go, hopefully on

the back of a forklift
and go, this is how

many people stood up to
say it's time to listen

to the scientists.

So, um, Yeah, we do
have a multistage,

a multi-pronged.

We started with the
online campaign just

to kind of get the
ball rolling out there.

And then we've now got
ads on a Wild TV and

Sportsman Channel to get
another market there.

Uh, we've got a couple
other approaches where

we've got them into a
physical letters into

mom and pop gun stores.

And we're looking at
other ways to reach

people that are off of
social media and, uh,

put, put letters in front
of them that they can

actually sign themselves.

And as you said, we're
in phase two, we have

a phase three that
we're working on and,

uh, yeah, we're, we're
going continue to, to

listen to feedback from,
uh, concerned hunters,

anglers sport shooters,
uh, than anybody who's

got a vested interest in
seeing wildlife on the

landscape for how they
think, uh, We could, uh,

potentially approach,
uh, other people.

Yeah.

So when I getting ready
to do this podcast,

I've actually done a
fair bit of thinking

on the problem and I
don't have a solution,

but I thought it would
be an interesting

endeavor anyways,
to discuss different

options and perhaps
crowd source through

the different listeners.

And they can say, Hey,
you've got a point

or you're totally off
base, but maybe think

about this over here.

And in thinking about it,
it seemed to me that the

best approach would be
to come up with something

that wasn't secret that
was out in the open.

And it's easy for
everybody to kind of

get behind because
I agree with you.

I have seen the creep,
the creeping legislation.

I've seen the creep
in anything that's

considered to be, um,
socially reprehensible.

That's right.

I come from the
firearms community.

And we've seen a few
generations of socially

engineered people come
through to equate the

firearm with being evil.

There's only see a
campaign and say ban

Mercedes-Benz because
they're getting all

these, these people
are getting behind the

wheel and, and hurting
people when they've

had a few drinks.

Yeah.

You, you don't see a
vehicular manslaughter.

They don't turn around
and say banned cube vans

because it, the inanimate
object doesn't have the

social stigma that has
been put on to firearms

in the, in the, uh, what
you guys are dealing

with right now, as I
look at it, it looks like

there is an individual.

Chris wrote a
paper, was it 2018?

Yeah, it was a 2018
just after, yeah.

After the grizzly bear
hunt, uh, that all

this really started
to gain traction.

Okay.

But that paper really
didn't see any traction

in, Oh, just recently.

That's right.

Yeah.

It's called social
large carnivores and the

social license to hunt.

It ended up on a,
uh, a site and it

was sent to me and I
went Whoa, and had a

real good look at it.

And there were some
trigger words in there

and, uh, I'll be the
first one to say it.

He is very intelligent
and very good

at what he does.

He's got a great
crowd of people behind

him back in him.

Uh, you got Kyle Artelle,
Paul Paquete and a

bunch of the other big
wigs that they've got

some chops with them.

And, but the buzzwords
I was noticing in there

were, were not just the
wolfs and black bears

that they target and
cougars, but they've

also thrown in there
in veiled sort of hints

that big horn sheep and
elk have trophy value.

So as we said that death
by a thousand cuts,

well, if they, if they've
named five animals and

we give them one, are
we gonna go that, it,

is their argument going
to be okay, well, if you

give us wolves, we'll
leave the others alone.

Absolutely not because
it's going to end up

being four more and
then it'll be, well,

you give us one, we'll
leave the other three.

And that's what we're
being con con uh, uh,

proactive about because,
uh, hunters for the

longest time have flown
under the radar and

not been proactive.

We've been
pretty reactive.

Like I know when I lived
in the mainland and

you, you can probably
vouch to this yourself,

Travis, when you uh,
go out to your vehicle

to go to the range.

You, you, you look
outside to make sure

is it okay to walk out
with my, uh, firearm

in a case you, you
check, who's watching

you, for the most part,
for the most part.

Because I have heard
horror stories about

people in, in, uh,
Yaletown walking to

their, from their condo
to their vehicle, with

their firearms, perfectly
legal and getting taken

down at gunpoint because
somebody saw them, uh,

doing something which
is perfectly legal that

they didn't understand.

So hunters grown up
hell not too long

ago, 30, 35 years ago.

It was commonplace to
see, uh, in the mainland,

a deer strapped to
the front of a car.

And you'd wave and
somebody stopped

at a gas station.

You'd have
pictures with it.

Now you do that and you
end up on social media

as a murderer, right?

People want your license
plate and you get death

threats and we're,
we're being proactive

for, uh, for a change.

Right.

We're we know there's
no legislation formally

right now, but we know
the wheels are turning

and they've got the
ear of government.

So we're trying to say,
Hey, you know what, it's

our turn to speak up.

So yeah, it's that the
paper came out in 2018

and, uh, they've sat on
it for three years, but

we know what's coming.

So we're trying to try
to beat them to the

punch, so to speak, you
know, how many people

were really aware of
that paper or of Chris

in general, prior to
this, lots of people

were aware, Chris and,
uh, his organization.

However, I don't
think they were aware.

To the extent of
influence they've had.

Uh, yeah, like I
said, there he's been

around for awhile.

He's a professor at
UVIC he's, uh, with his

organization there and
yeah, he's, they, uh,

they have some swing,
they've got some chops

with them, but yeah, the
lots knew who he was,

but I don't think they
understood the influence

that they've had.

Now, I don't know if you
know who Dan Fritter is.

He's the owner of
Calibre Magazine and

was talking with him
about some issues

on the firearm side.

And he says, I'm
not even going to

bother responding.

Everyone says, Dan,
how come, how come

you don't write about
it in your magazine?

Why don't you put this
up on, on Facebook

or on your website?

He says, look at them,
they have 300 followers.

I have whatever,
X number, large

number more.

Why am I going to
elevate their profile

by shining more light on
them and allowing them

to use my platform in
order to get further?

That's right.

I think that perhaps
that is part of the

tactic that's currently
being played right now

by, Chris, and the, in
the organization there

and I haven't been using
his last name and I

haven't gotten anyone
in the organization.

That's up to you guys
if you'd like to, but

I believe that's part
of the tactic is to

try and piggyback.

Oh, absolutely.

It is.

They've got one hell of
a following and I'm doing

the same thing you are.

We're not elevating them
if anybody who knows

they know by listening.

Um, but yeah, they've,
they've got one

hell of a following
on social media.

Uh, you only have
to look at a couple

of their petitions.

There's one.

What was it?

Three weeks ago Greg
had had, it was just

about, it was just
strictly centered

around wolves 500 and.

Yeah, it was like 504
or 503,000 already.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's just
one of them.

And their Cougar
one was what?

50 or 30 shooting for 50.

Yeah.

And that was on a, uh,
just a social media post.

Just a social media post.

Right.

So they've, they've
got traction and we're

trying to like, like I
said, Greg and I admin a

bunch of different pages.

We got between us,
probably 200,000

people we admin.

And whenever we
post anything like

this, we try to be
strategic and cross

out where it's from.

Who's posting it and we
always make a disclaimer.

Don't engage them.

Don't give them any
traction, but this

is what they're
doing because hunters

it's, it's, it's
a emotive, right.

It really, really is
emotive and are privilege

to hunt is under attack.

And a lot of people don't
take too well to that.

So they will
use screenshots.

Uh, they will they'll
bait you they're really,

really good at it.

A couple of years ago,
I did, uh, before they,

before they, uh, uh, went
full on with the grizzly

bear hunt ban, I did
a, uh, interview for, I

believe it was CBC and,
uh, the province, just

talking about grizzly
hunting and I ended

up with death threats.

My family ended up
with death threats.

And it was, if the shoe
was on the other foot.

Imagine if a firearms
owner did that, Travis,

if a firearms owner
went to somebody and

said, we're going to
kill you type thing.

How would that be taken
by the general public?

You'd be front and center
of every news network.

Exactly.

Got it.

Exactly.

So, and this
organization, they

did kind of talk about
the caribou numbers.

Didn't they?

And essentially didn't
they say, who cares?

They did.

They did great point.

I'm glad you brought
that up because they,

they did say essentially
who cares, they're gone.

Just leave them
alone, let them go.

They don't, they're
not going to make

it, let them go.

And as I said, why are
wolves more important

than the caribou, right?

I, I don't get that.

As a conservationist,
you want to see them all.

So, as I spent some
time trying to think

about this and I'm
looking at it, I'm

trying to decompile it.

And I think you guys,
well, I'm fairly certain

you, your organization
and you guys are correct

in so much as saying,
they're looking at

this, but they have an
ulterior motive, they'd

like to go further.

And when you talk about
some veiled language,

it doesn't sound very
veiled to me, it's

pretty plainly written.

And I think anybody with
a benefit of hindsight

would turn around and
look at it and say,

yeah, they're talking
about it back in 2018.

They're talking
about it further.

So essentially it
sounds like hunters

have been trying to
fight an emotional

ban and emotional
response, and they're

trying to use science.

How has that
been working out?

It's it's, it's
a tough one.

It's a tough one because
we're consumptive

users, right.

We go into the back
country, uh, for the

experience and to try
and harvest an animal.

And the ultimate goal
is to put something

in your freezer.

And we know as hunters
that it's, it's

managed by the best
available science

there is out there.

So for the, they use it
to, uh, uh, they, they

use emotion to try and
portray us as murderers.

So we go, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no.

We're not murderers.

This is managed by
science and we don't,

if we push back
with emotion, it's,

it's a tough battle.

Like I'll be straight,
it's a tough battle.

So we try and say,
it's a, so it's a

scientifically managed
hunt, but here is

our connection to it.

It's about that there's
uh, there's 160,000

black bears estimated
in British Columbia, a

quarter of all the bears
in North America reside

here in British Columbia.

That's a great argument
to counteract, well

they're cute and
cuddly and uh, there's,

there's not enough of
them because they do,

you see it everywhere.

Wolves are endangered,
black bears are

endangered, cougars
are endangered.

And if we can counteract
with a little bit

of science and then
throw in the emotion

of that connection,
it's, it's hopefully

going to go a long way.

So, one thing that
I was thinking about

was what if you don't
counteract with the

science, the science is
very, very important.

Have the science as
a basis for something

that you can rely upon
and he can hold up.

But what if it isn't
done from a scientific

perspective and by it,
I mean, what if the, uh,

rebuttal isn't done from
a scientific perspective?

And what I'm thinking
is essentially we're

in a losing situation,
the battle that's being

fought is an we're in
an untenable position.

You cannot defend when
the argument has already

been framed in such
a way that hunting is

bad, firearms are bad.

I mean, to the non
hunter, is a person

that you have to
get this information

right front of.

Maybe instead of trying
to hold all the science

out and say, but look at,
look at the numbers over

here and look how the
science and the one side

said that the grizzly
bears would all be

wiped out at this rate.

And that didn't really
work out the way that

they figured, uh, the
science that the hunters

have been accumulating
is actually good.

Sure.

What if instead, you
take a look at reframing

the argument and in a
way that essentially

makes the motive of the
other side, very clear.

I mean, like if we were
to strip down what the

end goal is from this
paper in this point and

predator hunting, what
if we take that to the

absolute and degree
and start identifying.

What animals should
be harvested and what

animals shouldn't.

I bet ya.

As you push it down,
they would turn around

and say, well, I don't
think any animals

should be harvested.

I think as you push them
further and further in

that conversation, it
would just come down

to, I don't necessarily
think hunt hunting is

an inalienable, right.

Even though in the
paper, they do say for

an indigenous group.

Yes.

That's your inalienable.

Right.

But for everybody else,
no, we'll play nice on

this side, but the other
side, you know, we, we

want some support and
you took a look at it

for the extremist, uh,
essentially emotional

terrorism that it is.

I think it'd be
harder for people

to get behind that.

And in the day and age
of, uh, anti-bullying

being out in the
forefront, the tactics

and the way that it's
being portrayed, I

mean, hunters aren't,
blood-thirsty savages.

But there is that idea
out there that a hunter

has a firearm, a firearm
is violent, firearm

causes things to die.

So in the approach of
taking a look at the

other side of their
argument and really

fleshing out what they're
looking at, a two-fold

solution, I was thinking
anyways, was to separate

the hunter from the
argument and what I say

that, because if you
and bear hold with me,

cause I don't have a
completely figured out,

but I have some thoughts
on it, but you're never

going to get all the
hunters to play nice.

They're going to
have people that say,

well, I'm, I'm only
a small game hunter.

I'm only a bird
hunter or I'm only a,

whatever it might be.

So why bother trying
to get it all to the

hunters on the same page
as it goes forward, when

they throw a picture
up of somebody doing

something that's either
illegal or maybe this

in very poor taste,
all hunters wear that.

So what if you separate
the hunter from there?

So if somebody does
do that, that's the

drunk driver, not all
drivers drive drunk,

not all people who get
drunk drive, but there

is a, there is a very
logical separation there.

So if you take a look
at the actual, uh, end

goal of what the other
side is trying to do,

and then painted it in
such a way that shows

it for what it is.

I have a few more
thoughts on that,

but I've been
talking for a bit.

So I'm going to let
you get to let you,

uh, jump in here.

Uh, one of the issues
with that, um, you

know, everybody's
getting painted with

that broad brush.

So they gave him, if you
look in the mainstream

media, if there's a
poacher out there and you

know, a hundred percent
convicted poacher,

the mainstream media,
majority of them will

still call them a hunter.

Right.

And it's, well,
you're not a hunter,

you're a poacher, it's
illegal activities.

Most of us don't do that.

There's those,
every, every activity

has got a bad egg.

Right.

So we always seem
to get painted with

that brush and then.

You cant escape it.

No, no, you
can't for sure.

It's the same thing
with the way they,

they say trophy hunt.

And if you ask a non
hunter, what a trophy

hunt is, it's somebody
who goes out there

and shoots the biggest
animal they can and only

takes the antlers or
the horns or the hide.

And we tell them, no,
that's a poacher and

we're trying to, they
demonize the word trophy.

And, uh, there's been
studies out there that

even when you break it
down into a selective

hunter, which we prefer
to use, where somebody

goes out there and
they target the biggest

animal possible to
get, uh, the reward of

that, the trophy parts,
whether or not it's the

antlers or the hide,
the, they break it down.

And I believe it was
less than 4% of hunters

identify as a quote
unquote trophy hunter.

So we're, we're trying
to, uh, to delineate

and show the separation
between what a trophy

hunter is under their
definition versus what

is under our definition.

And I think that's
where a lot of the

disconnect lay.

So we do use the, the
emotional side of things

with, uh, 1Campfire
where we try and show

what a hunter has in
common with a non hunter,

because it's, it's so
much more then the kill.

It's about going out
and enjoying the back

country and time with
family and friends.

And I've always said
that the most successful

hunts I've ever been
on, I've never even

pulled the trigger that
because I come back with

nothing but memories,
hunters, or hikers, we're

boaters, we're mountain
climbers, we're skiers.

We're we're we're
we, we love fishing.

You name it.

There's so much more
to the entire package

and that's one of
the, uh, the things

we try and show.

It's not just a,
uh, a blood sport.

And that's another thing
you see quite constantly

is, uh, there is no
limits on anything.

That you're looking to
go what, it's not like

you turn a corner and
all of a sudden there's

15 deers standing there
and you get out and

you mow them down with
your scary AR 15 right?

And it's, it
doesn't happen.

I, I live in Prince
George and I get moose

in my front yard and
bears in my front

yard, constantly.

But it's not as
easy as that because

it's about so much
more than the hunt.

So much more than the
kill that the hunt is

the process, right?

And there's so much
more we're chasing

than animals.

So 1Campfire, that's
something that Wild

Sheep's Society
has supported.

And is that it.

It is Wild Sheep Society.

It is a campaign by
The Wild Sheep Society.

Yes.

Okay.

And it's been about two
years now, I believe

it's been running for.

Just over.

Yes.

And do you guys have
metrics, uh, do you

hold metrics and do
you, uh, have, uh,

measuring system for, uh,
measuring the efficacy

of the 1Campfire.

No.

Specifically, it's about
getting the message out

to as many non-hunters
as we can with a, a soft

core hunting message.

Uh it's.

As I said to show that
connection that we shared

that's about more than
pulling the trigger.

So it's, you'll see
some posts, we'll have a

bit more veiled hunting
nuances in there.

Some we'll be talking
about the hiking and that

the tie in with hunting.

Uh, we have, uh, tasty
Tuesdays, which shows,

uh, wild game usage,
uh, wildlife, Wednesdays

highlight wildlife and
successes hunters have

had with rebuilding
populations, like in

the 1930s, uh, they
figured turkeys were

going to go extinct.

There was less
than 30,000 across,

uh, North America.

And now there's
over 7 million.

It's it's, it's crazy
that the positive

impact hunting has
had on the landscape.

And that's what we try
and show with 1Campfire

that it's about so much
more than the kill.

Mm.

So, and, and that
definitely shows one

side, I think with
COVID that there is a

huge push for people
to want to learn about

self sustainability.

Yes.

Self-sufficiency a lot of
people want to get into

nature and they want to
learn about hunting and

hunters share an intimate
relationship with nature.

That non-hunters would
have a very difficult

time understanding.

I mean, the amount of
preparation of learning,

the land of learning,
the animal of learning,

how to care for the
game, eat afterwards

and processing it.

And it's so much
more than just the

pulling of the trigger
that happens in a

fraction of a second.

That's right.

And I think that
1campfire does a

great job of showing
those other things.

I'm wondering if there's
a possible way that

somebody perhaps much
smarter than myself

can take the, uh,
take the conversation.

And I see 1Campfire as
a prong of showing what,

uh, uh, hunters do.

And I see the general
trend towards food as

being a huge driver for
people to be interested

in, in wild foraging,
fishing and hunting.

But is there a way to
essentially separate,

not even have that
trophy argument because

trophy hunting by whose
definition, obviously

there's, there's going
to be definitions

and those definitions
can get twisted.

So what do we just take
trophy rate out of it?

Take a look at
the hunter aspect.

We'll look at this
guy, he poached

all those animals.

Well, he's not a hunter.

Of course he's
not a hunter, but

the non-hunters
don't see that.

Take the hunting
aspect out of it.

And maybe go for
my perspective of.

Why is it this
organization wants to

see the caribou die?

I mean, if I ask a person
a question, well, do you

still beat your wife?

How do you answer
that, right?

Well, no.

Okay.

So you stopped, right?

Well, yeah, so?

So you're a wife beater?

Got it.

I mean, essentially
that's a position that

hunters are currently in.

And so talking about
trophy hunting and

talking about defending
these different hunting

practices, in my opinion,
is a losing battle.

And maybe that will
form the science side.

That'll back up an
argument, but a more

offensive approach.

And it's not coming out
and calling names or,

or, or anything like
this or the death threats

that you are receiving,
but it's really

systematically drilling
down into the other side

and taking a look at
what the end goal is.

And if the science
supports that,

Hey, guess what?

They're going to have
a bunch of hunters that

that'll get in behind it.

But if they're actively
saying that science

doesn't support it, who
wants to be labeled as an

eco terrorist or, I mean,
essentially irrational,

irrational individual.

And my way of thinking
goes that that's sort

of the approach that
needs to be taken.

A way to maybe hire a
PR company to reframe

what is actually
happening into something

that is palatable and
understandable by the

general public and maybe
hire a law firm because

I did in my research
notice that the other

side seems to be doing
both of those things

with great success.

Pro problem is we do have
great PR people in our

wings with Wild Sheep.

Uh, however, the
problem is is we, we

don't have the pocket
books like them.

We'll be blunt, right?

We're we're
volunteer run.

We have what Greg
two paid employees.

Yep.

Two paid employees
and 1100 members.

Yeah.

And we, our money's not
as, not as, not there

But 115,000 hunters.

Yeah.

Exactly.

We, we can't get, uh, we
can't get 10,000 hunters

to sign up, to protect
the, the privilege

to hunt right now.

As you said, hunters,
can't come together

to, uh, to agree on
what's the best firearm

for using in a season.

You still see people.

Well, no, I'm a
bow hunter, well,

I'm a rifle hunter.

Well, I'm a
shotgun hunter.

Well, how dare you shoot
that two point buck?

Well, it was legal, but
you should hold out and

wait for a mature buck.

Get rid of the
doe season.

There's a wolf
call on right now.

Well, don't shoot
anything you can't eat.

I can keep going on
and on and on and on.

And hunter, hunters
can be are, are our

own worst enemies.

And, uh, dude, you
nailed it was saying

we have a PR problem.

We've we've, uh, we've
known that for years

and it it's tough to.

To take a narrative
back from the masses

that has been so well
executed against us.

And especially
when you're facing

organizations that have
got seemingly endless

pocketbooks and a
lawyers on retainer.

Mhmm.

Well, I look at on the
firearm side, there's a

ongoing court challenge
at the moment for the OIC

firearms prohibition that
came out and firearms

owners said, I know
what we're going to do.

We're going to get a
petition, bill E-2341,

and we're going to
get people sign this.

And what are we
going to ask for?

Democratic process.

Yes.

We want the government
to at least debate

the banning of
certain firearms or

not before passing
it through, that's

all we're asking for.

This petition got
the largest number

of signatures of any
e-pe- I don't know if

it's any petition, but
definitely any e-petition

in Canadian history.

And the result
of that was.

Eh.

That's it.

Yep.

Oh, thanks guys.

Next.

And I have to wonder,
the same approach if,

if hunters and a lot of
hunters will not, uh,

put themselves in the
same boat as the people

fighting on E-2341 or the
OIC firearms prohibition

because they say I'm
a waterfowl hunter,

it doesn't affect me.

And maybe it does, right.

But with the, the
current trend that's

happening, that you're
going to see in the news.

There's a lot of
people that are certain

to pick up and say,
hold on a second.

If they can ban firearms
to ordering counsel,

just without any debate,
what would happen to

my other pro personal
property that I own?

And the firearms um,
advocacy, advocacy

groups have been working
very hard to find a

relationship between that
and something that the

general public can get
behind and understand.

That's right.

And for hunters in
British Columbia, I think

a process of divorcing
the hunters from the

actual conversation
completely and take

a look at something
that the general

public can get behind
as a, uh, something

that makes sense.

Well, hold on a second,
if they ban predator

hunting based off of
social license to operate

or social license to
hunt, which the social

license to operate really
speaks for a group of

individuals, but not
all of the individuals.

And it's usually the
most vociferous group

that's going to say,
Hey, w we, we hold the

moral high ground, right?

And then the rest
of the people say, I

could care less right.

I'm not a hunter,
hey, sounds good.

That's a nice looking
wolf over there.

Yep.

So if, if hunters are
able to reframe exactly

what it is that the other
side is trying to say,

in a factual way and
really point out, uh,

what that is and why,
and make it applicable.

I think it would be a
heck of a lot easier.

Yeah, totally get it.

I, when it comes to
e-petitions, I was

the one behind 2576,
the democratic process

that had 60,000 and
I got the, uh, the,

the pushback of, eh.

And essentially that's,
what's, that's, what's

happening to us right
now is hunters, right?

We can have the loudest
voice online in our own

little community, but
if we can't get that

social license out there
in the non-hunters,

because if you want to
break it down, uh, uh,

demographically, what
we're, we have 5 million

people in BC give or
take, and we got 115,000.

And if you take away even
half that are against

large carnivore hunting,
we're down to 50,000 and

we're, we're, we're this
much of the population.

And we know that we
don't hold the votes.

Even if every single
hunter signed, we

don't hold the votes.

We need that swing of
the 80% on the fence.

We need to show them
that we're not the bad

guys that we truly care
about wildlife, right.

And that's, that's
the uphill battle

we've been facing.

Like I said, 30, 40
years ago, it was

commonplace to see deer
on the hood of a car.

You do that
now and ho boy.

But showing them that
we're not the bad guys

is defensive again.

That's right.

Is there an
offensive approach?

And maybe like I
say, maybe a listener

will come in and play
offense of something

that's clear and easily
looked at by any side

and will stand on its
own, on its own merits.

Not something that
has to be talked

about secretly in the
background and not, not

some mud mud-slinging
campaign, but.

It seems to me that a
proper offensive approach

. Definitely needs to
be, be like a pivot

And that's where
it gets tough.

Uh, we we've had people
say, uh, w there's been

some great graphics
that have circulated in

the hunting community
of this is what a wolf

really is like where
you've got a cow moose

standing in a puddle
with their a little

calf and there's six or
seven wolves around it

showing . That, well,
they're not all magical

mystical beings that
ride rainbows, right as

they're portrayed they're
they're wild animals.

We know that it's just,
how can you show the

non-hunting public,
the truth behind

these mystical beings?

There's there's another
great one that circulates

in the hunting community
of a polar bear.

Greg knows the one
that I'm talking about,

where it's a committed
infanticide, where

it's holding the head
of a two month, three

month old cub, because
it's just killed.

It's common.

It wants to,
that's right.

Because it just killed
the Cub because it

wants to breed mom
again and send her

into an estrous cycle.

Problem becomes is
how do we put the real

reality of nature out
there without almost

being offensive, right?

It's a, it's
an ugly battle.

Maybe it's not so much
a reality of nature, but

maybe the reality of the
argument that's being

used against hunters and
the reality of the other

side, if all of a sudden
the other, the people who

would look to ban hunting
based on the fact that

it doesn't hold the moral
high ground are shown to

be essentially terrorists
and their approach.

Let's get, let, let's
get everybody together.

Let's stage whatever
photos we can, let's

get as much social
outcry, right.

Let's make death threats.

And if that
picture is painted.

And we just, I mean.

We've, we've I know I
personally have, and

Greg has as well, we've
got pages of death

threats of screenshots
that we've had against,

uh, hunters and anglers
and sport shooters.

And we've, we've shipped
them to the media.

We, I had one local
media person that had

the balls a couple of
years ago to cover it.

And it didn't go
anywhere beyond that.

Well, are the police
agencies will generally

say, unless you feel
a direct threat,

we can't act on it.

Well, that person
lives in England.

They're just
venting, block them.

So it's, it's tough.

And it's, I, yeah, it's
just, uh, almost feel

like we're spinning our
wheels when it comes to

how we show that we're,
we're not as bad and

there's, there's a, uh,
a YouTube video out there

that I got to find again,
it's a Paul Watson.

From Greenpeace and
he's in an interview

kind of off the cuff
with somebody and it

goes back, Oh, this
must be mid eighties.

And he says something
to the effect of when

we want to raise money,
we'll, we'll go after

wolves or bears because
they're the ones

people will grab onto.

And we can turn this
into a money making

campaign, something like
that gets out there.

But the problem
is, is getting the

mainstream media to
run with it without,

uh, without any spin.

We've, uh, we've had
some we've, we've had

some great media coverage
out there and you read,

you read, you read.

You're like, all
right, all right.

Holy crap, they did it.

And then they spun it
into something that it

really truly wasn't.

So I don't know, Greg,
what are your thoughts

on, uh, how something
like that could be done?

Like I said, Greg and
I admin pages where

there's probably 200,000
people . Between us.

So we see, we see it in
the hunter community.

The one that, uh,
with Travis, you've

been from the lower
mainland as well.

The, the cougars
and poco right now.

Sure.

And you know,
conservation officers

have put down a couple
of those cougars and

the backlash that
they've gotten on

social media, they're
getting death threats.

And, you know, people
are upset that they're

killing the cougars
that are coming into

their neighborhoods,
stalking their children,

killing their pets, but
they're monsters for

protecting the people.

So where, where do we
grasp the emotional

ground to, to take these
take on the anti hunters?

You know, they're
so upset about being

protected from cougars.

Like w there, we're
monsters for putting down

a problem animal in your
neighborhood, in your

backyard, that's taken a
puppy off a leash while

someone's walking it.

Like you can't, you can't
argue with those people

and, and then if you do.

What would mama bear
do if, if it was coming

after her cubs, I mean,
we are a part of the

whole natural process and
we have stuck our finger

in the dish of water
and we cannot expect

not to see ripples.

Yep.

Nailed it.

Exactly great.

And that's, that's
the disconnect.

People they go, let
nature balance itself

while we are in nature,
wrap your head around

that we're part of
nature and it might

make it easier, right?

Like that's, that's
a way we could

possibly approach it.

Right.

Remember, we are
a part of nature.

And as such, you do
have an impact, right?

Whether, whether or
not you're vegan,

pescatarian, vegetarian,
or full on carnivore,

in order for us to live,
something has to die.

Whether or not you do
it by your own hand or

somebody else's hand
you've you're, you're

killing something
in order to have to

live on this planet.

And it's just as hunters,
we, we choose to take

out the middleman right?

And, uh, we, we try to
connect with our food

as much as possible.

And it's, yeah, it's
about, it's about that

connection and trying
to show it as much as

possible and not be
offensive, but be real.

So, yeah, it's a tough
battle and it's, uh,

there's, there's a
couple of people out

there that have got
similar sort of ideas.

Uh, Greg will know
Robby uh, Robby Krueger.

He says that, uh, we
were pushing a stone

uphill with our shoulder
and it we're going

to continue to do it
as people are pushing

the mud down the hill
where it's still trying

to push it up right.

So it's tough.

It really is.

Yeah.

I think from the
hunting perspective,

yes, definitely.

When you take a look
at the Tahltan, and

they've said, grizzlies
are out of control.

Yep.

We're going to have
to start calling them.

You look at the paper
that Chris wrote.

Oh, indigenous groups.

We just they've got
an inalienable, right.

That's right.

If we take a look at
this logic, how is it

that they have a right
and non-indigenous

don't and at the
indigenous have a right.

At what point does their
social license to operate

expire, but you look
at the, um, New Zealand

sharp, super suitors
that are brought in on

my Haida Gwaii just to,
to cull the animals.

All the, uh, uh,
sitka is out there.

That's right.

You look at the amount
of commercial fishing

that we do, larger
grizzly bear population

that they're bringing
fish out for them

to eat, because they
say all these grizzly

bears are starving
in certain areas.

Like at some point
we have to put rules

and regulations in
place that will affect

how we interact with
nature, because we

are an apex predator.

That's right.

And, and, and we're a
part of this, but by

completely turning a
blind eye and shutting

down certain areas of
the management, we're

too far into this game
to be able to do that.

And we do need to take
a scientific approach

to be able to manage
this properly for

generations to come.

But the messaging and
I, I agree a thousand

percent on the science,
but the messaging

I think, has to be
approached from an

emotional standpoint.

Yeah.

If you're having an
emotional argument.

That's right.

Yeah.

I've, I've said in a
conversations to our

committee that, uh,
we're, we're, we've

got a scientific, uh,
approach to an emotional

argument and it's, you
can, uh, You can put it

in front of people that
it's a scientifically

managed hunt.

Like it let's let's let's
step back just a sec.

If we, we all saw the
polls on the grizzly bear

hunt, do you support the
grizzly bear trophy hunt?

Right?

That's how it was worded
and imagine how it would

change if it said, do
you support a science

based grizzly hunt?

I imagine you might
not have had the 95%

against and a 5% for you
might have had a 50 50.

So it's about, it's about
showing that there's

a science involved in
the hunting process.

So we still, we S we, we
still have to show that

it's managed because
as I said, there's,

there's people out
there that believe it's

a free for all that.

There's no licenses,
there's no seasons.

Uh, as soon as you
hit hope, you can go

out and just blast
anything you want.

And there's no
meat requirements.

There's no age,
age for hunting.

You can have your two
year old out there

shooting, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera.

So we still need to
incorporate some of the

scientific evidence.

I won't say it's
an argument cause

it really isn't.

It's a scientific
evidence that hunting

is managed by seasons
and science, but

you're, you're correct.

We have to appeal to
that emotional, that

emotional trigger with
some people pardon the

power firearms pun.

Um, but in, in that's
that that's the

aim of 1Campfire.

We, we try and show
that science with the

emotion in there as well.

And yeah, if we had an
unlimited budget, we'd

love to dump tens of
thousands of dollars,

hundreds of thousands of
dollars into retaining

a lawyer that could just
say, you could go this

far, but you can't quite
in, you know what I mean?

And, and push, push
the way they do.

And, uh, yeah, it's,
it's a tough argument

to win when are, uh, as
they are going to say,

our ultimate goal is to
kill something, right?

Cause that's,
that's what they see

hunting as right.

We go out there to kill.

So it's tough.

What if the science
is used to make an

emotional argument?

Like for example, take
a look at the science

of what happens if the
wolves abandons put

on and wolves can't
be hunted anymore.

What happens to the
caribou population?

Okay.

What happens to the
population of other

animals in those areas?

And then a year later,
what happens to that

thriving wolf community
when there isn't

any food for them to
be able to survive?

And then sort of look
at it down the way

from a science-based
approach and then use

the emotional argument.

Why would you want to
see all of these wolves

starved to death?

Why would you want to
see an entire population

of caribou eradicated?

Would you support that?

Why are you guys
supporting that?

I dunno, maybe.

Yeah.

We've we've we tried
similar, uh, approaches

like that, but it's,
you'll see Chris and

his crew immediately re
uh, rebut the science

that shows that they,
we disagree with that

science and then all
of a sudden their,

their crowd goes, Oh
yeah, they're wrong.

We know that there's,
uh, another article

coming out shortly
with, uh, that

against Chris's paper.

They it's you'll have
your, your pro hunting

with your pro hunting
scientists on one side.

And you have your anti
hunting scientists

on the other side,
and they're forever

jousting and they're
forever in a tug of war.

So th th th the, uh,
the, the ugly part about

using science, uh, to
base 100% of an argument

on is who science
are you gonna lose?

Right.

Right.

Who science is best.

So, yeah, it's, it's,
he says, you're putting

your shoulder into a
rock and you're trying

to push it up Hill.

And as I said, we're
never going to change

the mind of a hundred
percent of the people,

but if we can change
the mind out of one

out of 10, that person
can change another.

And that person that
can change another.

And we'll, we'll
just keep pushing

the way we can.

And yeah, we we'd love
to hear some ideas from,

uh, from listeners on
what they feel is, uh,

is a realistic approach.

The one that we can
put smart goals on and

stuff like that, right.

We, we need to be, we
need to throw a wide

net, but we also need
to dial it down to be

specific for the cause.

And the science,
what was it?

Disraeli was supposed to
have said there's lies,

damn lies and statistics.

Statistics, yep.

Um, okay.

Like I said, had some
thoughts on it, had

an idea, definitely
didn't have it

fully fleshed out.

Appreciate it.

And I mean, this
is everyone's.

Oh, yeah.

Everyone's in everybody's
interest to put

their heads together
and think on it.

Absolutely it is because
it's the same battles

affecting the firearms
community right now.

You have your,
your3Gun and your,

your IPSC and all that.

Right.

You know, you don't,
uh, when you can't

even come together
on, well, what's, this

can put you in a spot
here what's better a

Glock or 1911, right.

Like, right, right.

Oh God, well, no,
no, no, I like that.

I like that, right?

No, it's a firearm.

You take one away.

The other one's going
to follow, right.

Right.

And that's, we're in the
same sort of argument and

it's, it's, it's tough.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's, it's tough.

I definitely think a
reframe needs to happen

on the firearm side.

That always gets me.

You say Glock or 1911,
but what's the difference

between a rifle, shotgun
or a pistol other than

her size, your rifle
is going to do much

more damage than your
pistol is, but it's

a mental perception
around firearms based

on media and based
what's been put forward.

I think we're at a
unique, we do have

a unique opportunity
with COVID and with

the current state of
affairs here, with the

way everyone's thinking
about stockpiling and

some sufficiency to
be able to have a more

receptive audience,
people who might

otherwise say, what do
I care about hunting to

hold, hold on a second.

Maybe I, maybe I want
to have some animals

around here for my
kids to be able to see.

And maybe that is a
more sustainable way

of our livelihood.

So I think that
might present

something as well.

I don't know.

It's a tough one to get
out there to the big, uh,

the big picture, right?

When you can't get media
to cover the good side

of what it is, right.

That they'll grab
on to the negative

of the poachers.

Oh, he shot two moose.

Well, you know what, if
you look at a hundred

thousand hunters, 98,000
of them are going to

condemn them for it.

Right.

But, you know, latch
onto those, those two.

So it's tough.

Well, I'm going to put
links up on our website

and on social media where
people can learn more

about The wild Sheep
Society, learn more

about how they can submit
their letter in and be

involved with their MLA.

Uh, there, I was talking
with Jenny Ly, she

was with Backcountry
Hunters and Anglers.

Yes.

And, uh, she works on
the social media side

and she mentioned that,
you know, Hey, if you

got a small social media
feed, you only have like

25 friends on there.

Don't think you can't
make a difference, the

algorithm on social
media is set up in such

a way that it wants
to give you a wider

play to essentially
draw you into the

social media structure.

So tell your
story, right?

Maybe not the grip,
maybe not the gripping

grins right, but tell
the story about the

blisters on your feet.

Tell a story
similar to what camp

1Campfire is doing.

And then there was,
um, it was Jesse

Zeeman who was talking
about, go see, meet

with your MLA, right?

Manage your social
feed, uh, venison

diplomacy, share your
meat with your neighbors.

And that's where Shane
Mahoney says on The

Wild Harvest Initiative.

It's a, the, the
food is the binding,

the end product, the
end result of it.

Yep.

And finally be a
mentor, take people out.

Yeah.

I got a buddy
buddy of mine.

He and I actually went
to kindergarten together.

And so we're going
back 40 some odd years.

He lives in Delta, so I.

Right next door with us.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So, but three years
ago I posted a picture

of a bear and I get a
private message from him.

And usually it's.

So I post a picture of
a bear and if I get a

message about it, it's
why'd you do that, right?

And it gives me a chance.

It opens the door, but
he approached me and he

says, so I've always been
curious about hunting.

Right?

Outcome my claws, so
to speak, see if I can

sink, sink them in.

We were in
cadets together.

We did survival
school, we did all the

fun stuff together.

We camp you name it,
but we hadn't seen

each other, in person,
in probably 25 years.

So I sent him a care
package of bear.

And so that's three
years ago, long story

short, this will be
his third year of

COVID, uh, disappears
or restrictions open

up of him coming
up here hunting.

He's now got his CORE,
he's taken three bears.

Uh, he's got, he's
an IPSC shooter now,

he's got his PAL.

So that all it takes is
that opening that door

for that conversation
and reacting right.

He's written a story
about his first hunt

with for 1Campfire,
he shares his story.

He's got his neighbor now
who's got his CORE, never

hunted, but opened that
door with a go, go pound

on the door and here's
some game meat and his,

uh, the neighbor's wife
said, don't, you dare

bring bear over here.

Guess what?

Now it's a staple
in their house.

So you open door
to conversation.

And even if
they're friends.

That's right.

Sorry, go ahead.

That's right.

Open up that
conversation, right?

Open that door.

Uh, venison diplomacies
you can't say it any

better than that, right?

You never know, uh, uh,
who a hunter is, right?

They're not always
what you think.

And that's one of
the campaigns we

got going with.

I Hunt, right.

It's uh, for, for
1Campfire, it's called

I Hunt and it's meant
to blow stereotypes

out of the water.

So check it out, check
it out on our Facebook.

You'll see a pin post
there and you watch it

and you'll go, Oh my God.

I had no idea that
person was a hunter

and it may, it's meant
to make you go, Hmm,

scratch your head and go.

I wonder if that person's
a hunter, I wonder if

that person's a hunter
and we've, uh, I actually

saw the first draft
of our latest one that

I storyboarded today.

It's, I'm stoked for it.

It's going to have
some huge outreach.

So we're, we're building,
building outreach

that way as well.

So yeah, as you said,
venison, diplomacy

get people out there.

That's a good idea.

You know, bring it
out of the shadows.

And even if other people
aren't interested in

getting into hunting,
their friends and

family, their friends
and family, we'll say,

Hey, this individual
comports himself in

an admirable way.

I like how this person
is and their daily

life and they happened
to be a hunter.

I now know what a
hunter, a good person.

And that's exactly what
I, the I hunt campaign

for 1Campfire is about,
it's about showing,

showing the closing,
the closing line is

if I say I hunt, am
I what you'd picture?

We're not as different
as you may think it's

meant to make you go.

Hmm.

Interesting.

I had no idea.

An interesting endeavor.

Is there anything else we
should talk about before

we start looking at
we're . Wrapping up here?

What do you think, Greg?

But I think we've pretty
much covered ActNow.

So, Oh yeah, yeah,
no, uh, I appreciate

you reaching out to
us and, uh, giving

us, uh, a sounding
board, so to speak.

100%, I appreciate you
listened to some of my

harebrained thoughts
that I have while I

sit up late at night
trying to think of

solutions for things,
but hopefully somebody

else out there might say,
you know what Travis,

you're kind of on the
right track, but tweak

it or have a completely
different idea.

And if they do have
an idea, how do

they contact you?

You can email us at exec
exec@wildsheepsociety.com

and put in the, the, the
header, uh, Silvercore

Podcast or, or whatever
expletive you want.

You're way off base.

Just feedback is great.

Yep.

Reach out to us on
Facebook, Instagram,

you name it.

We're available, and we'd
love to hear feedback

of where you think we
need to go with this.

Any ideas?

Yep.

We're we're open for
any ideas anybody's

got, we want to hear
them because we're drums

like sometimes too.

Gentlemen, thank you
very much for taking

the time to be on The
Silvercore Podcast and

sharing this important
information with our

Thanks again Travis.

Thanks Travis.