Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Hello Hydrogen visits some of the world's most prestigious events and talks to world leaders in the field of hydrogen and energy. What needs to be done in order to switch to a hydrogen-based power grid? Is hydrogen in fact the fuel of the future? Listen, subscribe and find out!
Welcome to Hello Hydrogen. A podcast series by the Port of Rotterdam Authority about the world of hydrogen which is coming to life in Rotterdam. In this 4th and final episode, we will discover all there is to know about importing Hydrogen. In the previous episode, we learned all about the different Hydrogen carriers which will be used for import. But where will we import it from and how will we store it?
Celwin Frenzen:To find out all about this, I'm talking to Martijn Copeman from the Port of Rotterdam Authority and Robert Jan Reuvekamp from Air Products. We're starting our conversation with Martijn, who is program manager, International Hydrogen Supply Chains at the Port Authority. In the future, Rotterdam will import roughly 90% of its hydrogen supply from different countries, which is about 18,000,000 tons. I asked Martijn to summarize how we got to those numbers.
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. So about 10 years ago, we had a vision, looked into our crystal ball, and we foresaw that, in analyzing current energy forms and energy flows, that we believe there is a market, throughput through the Port of Rotterdam of 20,000,000 tonnes based on energy consumptions and current current gray energy, usages. When we then analyze how much of that, hydrogen we can produce ourselves in the port of Rotterdam using offshore wind, we actually come to a limitation of only about 10% of that volume. So hence 90% of the volumes will need to be imported. Yeah.
Martijn Coopman:And for the record, 2 thirds of the 20,000,000 tonnes are actually for the German market. Rotterdam being the largest port of Germany, definitely the largest energy port to Germany. Yeah, 2 thirds, that's about 14,000,000 tonnes of that green hydrogen will actually pass on to the German market.
Celwin Frenzen:Okay. Clear. And, those the hydrogen we're going to import, how are we going to import that?
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. So that can be imported in different forms, different so called hydrogen carriers. What we see today, the most technically ready, carrier form is ammonia. Ammonia is a product that's already being shipped and handled in the port of Rotterdam. It's been handled in around the world in in ships for about 50 years.
Martijn Coopman:One of the probably the most safest, shipping industry in the world, and that safety standard is something very important that we we keep improving on and we we keep on high.
Celwin Frenzen:Mhmm.
Martijn Coopman:So that will be the first form of hydrogen coming in. Of course, methanol is another form of hydrogen, and we see in the future also new technologies such as liquid organic hydrogen carriers, liquid hydrogen and potentially even powder shaped hydrogen carriers also being used to import hydrogen.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. And to to first start with the ammonia, where are we going to get the ammonia?
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. So effectively, ammonia is produced from hydrogen and and ultimately, we hope from green hydrogen. How do you produce green hydrogen? You you need to have green power, green electricity. And ideally, you get that in countries where you have ideal sun, wind, or geothermal, or hydro conditions.
Martijn Coopman:So sun power, wind power, geothermal power, and hydro power. And a combination of thereof is even better. If you can then have your electrolyzer, utilized as many hours as possible in the day, you'll have the most cost effective hydrogen. Transform that into ammonia using so called Haber Bosch technology. You then have a product that has is already being handled, as I mentioned, 50 years, in typical ammonia carriers, and brought to Port of Rotterdam.
Celwin Frenzen:Alright. And, these countries where we're going to get hydrogen, I believe we categorized them into 3 different categories. Right?
Martijn Coopman:That's correct.
Celwin Frenzen:And which one are those?
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. So, Puerto Rosam has been in contact with, over a 100 and 50 projects worldwide Yep. That are looking to export, to Rotterdam. We have recently decided in categorizing them in 3 country types. Those are first of all the, OECD countries, the most developed countries we see.
Martijn Coopman:The technology is ready there. The money money is ready there, the willingness is ready there, and things are moving fastest in those countries. But they also have a large local market they need to satisfy first. And then when they have a surplus in certain of these countries, then they will start exporting to Europe. 2nd category we see is Middle East and India.
Martijn Coopman:Mhmm. Also, some really good sun wind conditions, capital strength, knowledge, being a lot of it being imported, but but readily available. And some of those countries also will be keen first supporters to Europe. And then the 3rd category that we have identified is is, South America and Africa. Also some ideal sun wind conditions, so some of these countries, some of these regions.
Martijn Coopman:However, potentially a little bit handicapped, because of the the financial risk perception of these countries. And this is where we're we're going to try to see if we can help them actually in, facilitating getting some of these projects off the ground.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. Alright. More on that later. First, I have a question about the port authority as a whole. What what role does it play?
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. It's a really good question. Effectively, the port is just, an owner, a leaser of a bit of land. We collect fees for, our terminals that are being developed there for the ships coming in. The cargo's being handled.
Martijn Coopman:So normally ports don't do very much. The port of Rotterdam though has and to develop plans and and that help to accelerate the energy transition. Because only if you work on it all at the same time, typically, you have the challenge of supply waiting for demand, demand waiting for supply, chicken and egg dilemma. We're trying to break that, dilemma. That that is the role that we are playing as the Port of Rotterdam.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. And and how does your role fit into that? What what do you do on a daily basis?
Martijn Coopman:Well, exactly also what I do, is is, convince, the suppliers, the developers of green hydrogen production facilities that there is a market. It's evolving in Europe. Mhmm.
Martijn Coopman:We're having a little bit of
Martijn Coopman:a hiccup this year, but I'm I'm convinced that next year, that's gonna come and and pick up again. And at the same time, the European market, they need to be satisfied that there's going to be hydrogen supply. So because why else would you convert your steel mill into using hydrogen if there is no hydrogen in the market? And that's what we've been doing the last 6 years, and I think we've been very successful.
Celwin Frenzen:Right.
Martijn Coopman:And we're seeing that parties in over the entire supply chain, also in the middle, the terminals, the shipping lines, everybody's convinced this transition is happening. It's going to come with peaks and troughs, but the ultimate trend line is upwards. And and it's definitely something that is unstoppable Yeah. And it's going to happen.
Celwin Frenzen:Alright. So there are 3 categories of countries where we're going to get to Heinz Yefong. Which countries are that?
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. We have agreements with all kinds of countries, 25 countries around the world. If we take the first category OECD countries, we see intense collaboration with Norway, with Spain, in Europe, Scotland, potentially a big supplier. Right. Then outside of Europe and North America, the Canadians are moving fast in the US.
Martijn Coopman:The IRA has been a great enabler of projects. Mhmm. Of course, everybody is holding their breath to see what the election's gonna bring this year and how that's gonna continue. Then we see, outside North America and Europe, Australia also, a huge potential, really, the the the giant effectively in terms of available space with the right sun and wind conditions that are going to take off.
Celwin Frenzen:But it would be, doable to get hydrogen from Australia all the way to here?
Martijn Coopman:That's a really good question. Instinctively, one would say it's too far away. But it turns out, and this has been confirmed by multiple parties and experts, that actually the variable shipping costs, so the cost of shipping hydrogen or ammonia effectively from Australia to Europe Mhmm. Is only about 5 in the order of 5 to 6% of the overall price of hydrogen. So distance is actually not a limiting factor for Australian hydrogen to be on the European market.
Celwin Frenzen:Okay.
Martijn Coopman:The fact that they have excellent sun and wind conditions, excellent investment climate, pretty good infrastructure, although they need a little help, and we're giving that to them. We really and and the total volume of area, and of volumes of hydrogen that can come from Australia, we really believe that Australia will also be supplying to Europe in the future.
Celwin Frenzen:So that the chip coming from, from Marsailia with the hydrogen, with the ammonia, does it also sail on the ammonia?
Martijn Coopman:Yes. It does. So one of the things that we definitely want to reduce is the amount of emissions from ships. Mhmm. The the shipping industry is one of the largest emitters of CO2, in the world.
Martijn Coopman:And the idea is that particularly for ammonia transport, the vessels will be sailing on ammonia fired engines. And so they will be burning the same green energy as that they're transporting and emitting 0 c02.
Celwin Frenzen:When when will this happen?
Martijn Coopman:So the first ammonia fired vessels are sailing today or this year. The first ammonia bunkering will take place in the port of Rotterdam, and the first commercial scale, supply chains are expected with within 1 to 2 years already.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. Okay. And we also going to get hydrogen from Namibia, I believe?
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. So that's that's the 3rd category country, South America and and Africa. And maybe if if taking them all in one, there are specific areas in those two continents where you have, again, the excellent sun wind combinations, northwest northeast Brazil, we see the the hydro potential also very large. Mhmm. And with that, you can get very competitive hydrogen.
Martijn Coopman:In Namibia, in the southwest of Namibia, the desert there has ideal sun conditions. Hydrogen export port in in the port of Luderitz Mhmm. Where a hydrogen export port in in the port of Luderitz
Celwin Frenzen:Mhmm.
Martijn Coopman:Where we believe around 3,000,000 tonnes of hydrogen equivalent will be exported, hopefully, mostly partly to Europe.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. Okay. And is is that the only way we help them by by, building the port, for example? Or do we do other stuff as well for them?
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. We do definitely do. So we're in a coalition with Dutch, state owned enterprises, Ghas Uni, and Invest International. We've supported Namibia with, a a fund Mhmm. The SDG Namibia 1 Fund, which is going to be a blended finance fund that helps the Namibian government to take their fair share percentage in the first very large hydrogen project in the country.
Martijn Coopman:The poor, Krasouni, is is also supplying knowledge expertise on the pipeline infrastructure development. And we are working with the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs, Foreign Affairs, and Finance to actually also involve, the government side and the embassy side with training.
Celwin Frenzen:Mhmm.
Martijn Coopman:What we call the just energy transition principles of ensuring that the Namibians, achieve the right skill sets to also be able to work on these hydrogen projects and benefit from them as much as possible. That is the fair energy transition that we really want to strive and and and make sure that they benefit from, from ultimately.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. And when does this have to be operational in Namibia?
Martijn Coopman:The Namibian project in, the southwest, is called the Hyphen Project, is aiming for first gas in 2028.
Celwin Frenzen:Alright. That is fairly soon already.
Martijn Coopman:That is very, very soon. Mhmm. So they are about to to start their FEED design, front end engineering and design this summer And and hope to take an investment decision by the end of 2025. And effectively that leaves them 3 years to build, to build their plant.
Celwin Frenzen:And then for Namibia, it's also going to be ammonia coming over here.
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. And Namibia, the Hyphen Project has chosen ammonia as their carrier.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. Alright. What countries are we looking at for the liquid organic hygiene carrier, the LOHCs?
Martijn Coopman:So the LOHCs, there are a number of technologies that are a little bit more advanced than others. The Japanese, Shiyoda company, has with their, MCH technology is the most advanced. They have had a pilot already between, Brunei and Japan. We are working with them on a number of, destinations from different European countries, to the Kola terminal in the port of Rotterdam and then onward to, to various off takers.
Celwin Frenzen:Mhmm.
Martijn Coopman:Also Hydrogenius, that's the German LOHC, quite well advanced, are working with, with Vopac on the supply chain from Scandinavia and possibly also from Spain. And then there are potentially also other, LOHC types that we are keeping an eye on and, and potentially definitely want to assist in getting hydrogen to to Ross Dam.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. Are there sufficient terminals already in the port?
Martijn Coopman:Well, we have 15 independent, independently operated third party terminals. And pretty much all of them are working on different plans, to convert gradually their facility to be able to receive hydrogen carriers. Some of them are more advanced than others. We at the moment have, as mentioned, one existing ammonia terminal. Mhmm.
Martijn Coopman:Four additional ones have been announced, and possibly even more will come.
Celwin Frenzen:Okay.
Martijn Coopman:There are a number of methanol terminals already, and LOHC. There are also 2 pilots that have been announced for the 2 different, carriers. And lastly, liquid hydrogen also a, a first project has been announced.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. What what and what I'm wondering, what are the main challenges for the import of hydrogen at the moment?
Martijn Coopman:What we see for the international supply chains to actually take off, we see the largest challenge at this moment is confirmation of offtake. The offtakers actually stepping up and saying, yes, we want that hydrogen for that price, the price that is currently be it's being offered on. Mhmm. And we can then sign a deal, and then the whole supply chain effectively will be will be be built. What we're seeing is that particularly due to inflation, high interest rates, that the cost of hydrogen, green hydrogen, has really gone up, made it even more difficult to schemes, but they schemes, but they're not enough.
Martijn Coopman:And we're seeing there's a little bit of a lag at the moment and a wait for people for the technology to develop even further so that the hydrogen can be built even more effectively. In the in the transition, we do see that blue hydrogen is is picking up, and possibly even other, colors or forms of hydrogen may may may start to appear. Blue hydrogen does seem to be in the money and be able to justify infrastructure development, such as pipelines. Mhmm. The pipeline in the port of Rothesdam currently being developed, but we also need a pipeline to Germany, an ammonia pipeline to Germany.
Martijn Coopman:And those could be built on the back of possibly blue hydrogen or blue hydrogen carriers in the near term Mhmm. Transforming to green hydrogen in the longer term.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. Because the hydrogen going to Germany from Rotterdam, is it all going via the pipeline or are there other methods as well?
Martijn Coopman:Well, initially there is no pipeline. So initially it will be by ship. Ammonia is already being shipped to Germany.
Celwin Frenzen:Okay.
Martijn Coopman:There is a train option, although not, very popular. And ultimately when the volumes pick up, we do believe that a pipeline will be justified and will be chosen for. And that will be the way to go.
Celwin Frenzen:Right. So you just earlier on in the conversation, you said 20,000,000 tons by 2050. Are we going to make that, do you think?
Martijn Coopman:2050? Definitely. There's absolutely no reason to let that one go. We had set ourselves a really ambitious target of 4,600,000 by 2030. That was based on the same assumptions as the, as the European target of, 10 plus Repower EU, 10 +10000000 tonnes.
Martijn Coopman:We believe those assumptions are not being met. A number of regulatory requirements are just not happening fast enough. So we don't think the 4.6 is achievable in 2030 yet. It might slide a few years, but it definitely will happen. 2050, definitely holding on to that target of 20,000,000 tons.
Celwin Frenzen:Hydrogen is coming from a lot of different countries in various forms or carriers to Rotterdam. But once here, we have to store it before we can use it or transport it further. To find out how that works, I'm joined via an online connection by Robert Jan Rufergump from Air Products. Firstly, he introduces himself and Air Products.
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:My name is Robert Jan Rieuwkamp, working for Air Products, in the port of Rotterdam. Air Products is an industrial gasses supplier in the port of Rotterdam, has been operational for about 50 years in the port supplying industrial gases to most of the industrial users in the port. That means nitrogen, oxygen, argon and also hydrogen.
Celwin Frenzen:And in what way does Air Products already work with hydrogen?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Air Products is a main producer of hydrogen. That's pretty much what we do in the port of Rotterdam. We have a pipeline system and supply large quantities of hydrogen molecules to the existing across the port, chemical, petrochemical industry. And then we have a small merchant site, so we fill trucks, tube trailers to bring that hydrogen to customers that are not connected to the pipeline system today.
Celwin Frenzen:And how do you produce the hydrogen nowadays?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Yeah, that is the traditional way to make hydrogen from natural gas, so through an SMR. We are, let's say, converting that to low carbon blue hydrogen with the connection to Portals where we will be the CO2 and have that supplied to the new Portals pipeline. And besides that we have also let's say, an off gas green supply of hydrogen available.
Celwin Frenzen:With Gunvor, you're working on a new import terminal. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Yeah. Exactly. So as you say, it's in, it's a facility to, to produce renewable hydrogen from, renewable energy. That renewable energy is converted into ammonia for us in the Middle East. We will be receiving that at the Gunvor location in the Europoort.
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Into that project there is a couple of phases. We look to, as I said, import green ammonia which is fully renewable and carbon free. We use it as a feedstock to produce renewable hydrogen locally. And then the third component is let's say with the molecules that are available, part of that we look to liquefy that to be able to distribute that to primarily heavy duty mobility customers away from the Rotterdam location.
Celwin Frenzen:So you just said you will produce green hydrogen but will this be in Rotterdam or in the Middle
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:East? No, that is correct. So we produce that in Rotterdam. We import green ammonia and that's what we convert in so called crackers dissociators, into green hydrogen that we then locally produce from a different source. Yeah.
Celwin Frenzen:And will you only import ammonia or are you looking at other carriers as well?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:No. We keep evaluating other carriers, but I think, let's say, specifically for this project we look at ammonia. So maybe the way to look at it, let's say this project is focused on the import of ammonia but obviously I mean we keep tracking the progress of other carriers as well. But Evolence has made a choice for this particular project on ammonia.
Celwin Frenzen:So why the focus on ammonia?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:I think that is for us let's say in terms of usage, existing supply chains that are available for ammonia, that's one of the reasons. And likewise, we see ammonia as the most effective molecule to bring large amounts of hydrogen. So in terms of physical properties of ammonia, it's one of the best energy carriers. So it allows us to bring as much as possible hydrogen into Rotterdam.
Celwin Frenzen:What will be the capacity of the terminal once it is ready?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Yeah, so as I said it is a phased approach. I mean, let's say we have been taking an FID on the project in the Middle East. That is 1,200,000 tonnes of ammonia, which equates to about 600 tonnes per day of hydrogen, is available at the end of 2027. And we look to import a large share of that into Rotterdam.
Celwin Frenzen:And what's the status of the terminal in Rotterdam?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Yes. So we are developing it in phases. We are right in the middle of that. We have completed permit application for part for the first part of the scope, and we hope to move to, to a next phase of that part soon. The other parts of the scope were in the permitting process, so we hope to submit a permit, let's say, this year.
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:We're actually thinking in quarters and not in years. As I said we have 2027, we have the molecules available and we want to secure these volumes for Rotterdam to make sure that the industry in Rotterdam does have access to the first mover molecules available.
Celwin Frenzen:Once the ammonia is cracked back to hydrogen, what will the hydrogen be used for?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:It's 2 fold basically. We look to ship volumes in liquid form to heavy duty mobility industry. Secondly, we have molecules available to serve existing customers that are connected to the pipeline in the Port of Rotterdam.
Celwin Frenzen:Yeah. And earlier you mentioned the Middle East already. I believe it's called the Neom Green Hydrogen Company. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Yeah. As of today, it's the largest green hydrogen facility in the world. So it's located in the Middle East close to Neil. There's the abundance of wind and solar and for us that has basically been ideal for a cost effective renewable energy production location. As I said, it's produced it's expected to produce 600 tonnes per day of hydrogen and we import that in the form of ammonia.
Celwin Frenzen:And is it operational already?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:No, it's great to see. You see movies every month and you actually see, I would call it a desert, an organised desert and now really it's a construction site. So it's Okay. It's I guess in sizing it's similar to the province of, of Levelland. Covering solar panels, covering wind turbines and it's an actual construction site in operation.
Celwin Frenzen:And looking back at all of this, what are the primary challenges you face?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Yeah. I think there is again there is there is 2, let's say, larger or 2 categories. I think specifically for Rotterdam you have these these project challenges around, let's say, the congestion on the network to have power available. Obviously there's the permitting, there's the nitrogen deposition challenge that we see in the Netherlands and in the port of Rotterdam. And then let's say the other category is more around the policies and regulation.
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:So it's a first mover project. We have the ambition, let's say, to continue as the first mover in the energy transition. But there are some regulations and policies of around the application of green hydrogen. So what qualifies as green? How do we let's say, how how will that green hydrogen enter the market?
Robert-Jan Reuvekamp:Who will buy it? At what particular cost? So these these type of regulatory challenges, is something that, we're we're looking at authorities, governments to get some further clarity on. And we're confident that we will get there, that the EU legislation will create that market and stimulate that market for first mover molecules to, to arrive to Rotterdam.
Celwin Frenzen:Before we close this episode, Martijn of the Port Authority has a final word to you, our listener.
Martijn Coopman:Yeah. I I think one of really important message that I I'd like to give the listeners is that people are seeing a huge hype in hydrogen over the last 4 or 5 years. Mhmm. And suddenly, in the last few months, we're seeing a real dip. A real disappointment and people repeating each other that it's not happening.
Martijn Coopman:The off takers are not there. There's not enough subsidies. And I think that people need to be aware that there was a little bit too much air in the hype. Mhmm. And it's good that we're getting a little bit of air out of the hype.
Martijn Coopman:We're gonna have a little bit of a dip in 2024 2025. I am absolutely convinced momentum will pick back up again, and we're definitely gonna see this transition through.
Celwin Frenzen:Thank you for listening to Hello Hydrogen. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the podcast wherever you find your podcasts. For more information on this podcast or hydrogen in the port of Rotterdam, take a look at portofrotterdam.com/hydrogen.