Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

“Communication is the number one way to remove friction.”
If communication is the key to connection, then removing friction is what makes every interaction work. According to Vanessa Van Edwards, the most effective communicators aren’t just skilled with words—they know how to align their gestures, body language, and presence to make others feel at ease. A behavioral researcher and bestselling author of Captivate and Cues, Van Edwards studies the subtle signals that shape how we are perceived. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, she joins Matt Abrahams to explore the hidden factors that influence communication, from purposeful gestures and expressive body language to the words, images, and visual cues that build trust and credibility.

Takeaways:
  • Great communication goes beyond words. Gestures, facial expressions, visual cues, and even the language we use in emails and meetings can either create friction or build trust, clarity, and connection.
  • Focus on the other person, not yourself. By applying the Platinum Rule—treating others as they want to be treated—and intentionally putting people at ease, communicators can foster stronger relationships, deeper conversations, and greater influence.

Activity:
  • Practice the Platinum Rule. Before your next important conversation, meeting, or email, take one minute to answer: “What does this person need from me right now?” Then tailor your communication to their priorities, concerns, and preferred style—not your own. Afterward, reflect on how that shift changed the quality of the interaction.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:01) - The Importance of Strategic Communication
  • (01:45) - The Power of Gestures
  • (04:10) - A Readiness Check for Speakers
  • (05:56) - Over-Signaling vs. Under-Signaling
  • (08:18) - Dangerous Words in Communication
  • (12:27) - Imagery Cues & First Impressions
  • (15:03) - Virtual Backgrounds Matter
  • (17:33) - The Platinum Rule
  • (19:01) - The Final Three Questions
  • (23:59) - Conclusion

Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Vanessa Van Edwards
Bestselling Author | International Speaker | Creator of People School | Instructor at Harvard University

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: The most
effective communication is the

communication that removes friction.

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I look forward to chatting
with Vanessa Van Edwards.

Vanessa is the lead investigator
at Science of People.

She specializes in helping professionals
master their people skills, increase

likability, and confidently navigate
both digital and in-person interactions.

Vanessa has written two best-selling
books, Captivate: The Science

of Succeeding with People, and
Cues: Master the Secret Language

of Charismatic Communication.

I got to know Vanessa when she
joined me in teaching parts

of my Strategic Communication
Master Class Certificates course.

Well, welcome, Vanessa.

I have been looking forward to this
conversation for quite a while.

Thanks for being here.

Vanessa Van Edwards: Thank
you so much for having me.

I'm so happy to be here.

Matt Abrahams: Shall we get started?

Vanessa Van Edwards: Yes, let's dive in.

Matt Abrahams: So you focus on
communication among many other things.

Why is strategic
communication so important?

Vanessa Van Edwards: I think
of communication as the number

one way to remove friction.

You know, I'm, I'm a
recovering awkward person.

And so I used to have a lot of friction
in my conversations, in my relationships,

where things just felt hard.

I think when we look at strategic
communication, communication that's

built to connect, that's built to
break down barriers, you are removing

friction from every area of your
life, your productivity, your ability

to connect, your ability to feel
happy, your ability to move forward.

And so I think that when people
think about getting things done

or being successful, they have
to add strategic communication to

remove friction from their goals.

Matt Abrahams: I love this
idea of strategic communication

as removing friction.

It makes things easier.

Communication is all about connection,
and if we can make that smooth

and easy, life just gets better.

I, I appreciate you sharing that.

Uh, you provide a lot of great advice
and guidance for non-verbal presence.

I really like the work that you do.

It's extremely valuable.

One area you focus on that I have
not seen others focus on that I'd

love for you to share a little
bit with us about is gesturing.

Can you share your thoughts on this, best
practices, and why this is even important?

Vanessa Van Edwards: I think that
gestures are the most overlooked aspect

of our presence, and the reason for
this is because the brain is very

attuned to gesture unconsciously.

We don't realize we're
looking at gesture so much.

So for example, as I'm speaking, if I
were to say to you, "I have, um, three

big ideas," but hold up the number five,

Matt Abrahams: It's confusing

Vanessa Van Edwards: My mouth really,
really wanted to say five really

bad because I was holding up five.

So one, there's a loop for you as the
speaker that if your gestures are aligning

with your words, you feel coherent, you
feel confident, you feel like, okay,

like I'm capable, I know my stuff.

So that alignment's important
for you as a speaker.

And Dr. Susan Goldin-Meadow has
found that gesture makes you more

fluent, it makes you more charismatic.

But also for the listener,
your brain is looking for, how

do I deeply understand you?

Yes, I can listen to your
words, I can hear tone, but also

I'm looking for visual cues.

So if I say that I have a really big
idea and I hold my fingers really

small, the other person's brain goes,
"What?" And actually, you're more likely

to believe my gesture over my words.

And so I think that this is the secret
way into a beautiful presence, which

is it helps you as a speaker feel
like you know your stuff, and it helps

the listener remember your stuff.

And also, between you and me, I
have a secret third goal that I

don't always share, which is if you
don't know your stuff well enough,

you won't be able to gesture.

So thinking about gesture is a
good self-check of, do I know

my content so well that I could
speak to you on two tracks?

That I can walk on stage, hop into
a boardroom, lead a meeting, and

speak with my words, but also I could
underline, outline, or highlight

for people along with my hands.

Matt Abrahams: I really appreciate that
self-check idea because a lot of people

will ask me, "How do I know when I'm
ready? Have I practiced enough?" And I

think a great way to check that is, are
gestures natural, and are you doing them?

And if you're not, it's a cue that perhaps
you need to work a little bit more.

And I love anything that connects,
you know, to science and biology.

One of the recommendations I always
make with gesturing is that we

want to do it beyond our shoulders.

Nervous people gesture in front of
their chest, and just going slightly

beyond your shoulders, again, shows that
openness, and I think that's important.

Vanessa Van Edwards: I love
gesturing beyond the shoulder.

I think of it as the strike zone
for any baseball players, right?

Like, you like the strike zone.

Also, be very careful to not penguin.

I call it penguining, which is
when you press your arms tightly

to your side and you just have
your arms angling, pivoting out.

Matt Abrahams: Right.

Vanessa Van Edwards: So it's,
it's not just a, a gesturing out.

It's also we love the space
between the torso and the arm.

Very confident people are
actually, they have a lot of space.

You can see their torso.

So not only gesturing out,
but also creating a little bit

of space there is also good.

No penguining.

Matt Abrahams: I love the idea of
penguining, where the elbows are glued

to the body, and we don't wanna do that.

In fact, when I coach people, I'll
say, "Imagine a ping pong ball or an

egg in your armpit," and that just
extends that elbow a little bit away.

Uh, I wanna share some advice that a,
a student of mine actually taught me.

What he'll do to really focus on his
gestures is he'll audio record himself

doing his presentation or his pitch,
and then he'll listen to it and not

speak, but as he's listening, he'll go
through his gestures, not to script or

memorize them, but to get that part of
his brain that does the gesturing working.

And I thought that that was an
excellent way of practicing.

I do that now myself and
find it really valuable.

Vanessa Van Edwards: I love it.

I, I, I'm gonna try this.

Matt Abrahams: Vanessa, can you tell me
what you mean by over and under-signaling

in our non-verbal communication?

Vanessa Van Edwards: So when you're
very nervous, you either go into, um,

freeze, which means you under-signal.

You shut down the face.

So anyone, all, any of my students who
are, um, very anxious in a presentation,

they under-signal, so they lose
all expressiveness in their face.

They lose all movement and
expressiveness in their body.

Their gestures, either they clasp their
hands tightly or they're in their pockets

or tightly to their sides, and they focus
fully on just verbal, verbal, verbal.

And they literally will try
to deliver only verbal, and

they lose all expressiveness.

That under-signaling, I think,
is a natural response of, "I'm

scared, so don't notice me."

If you're an under-signaler, we have
to add in movement that feels good

to them, whether that's even as small
as an eyebrow raise, uh, pivoting on

stage, how you hold the microphone.

We have to add in expressiveness.

The other side, and this is more
me, expressers, we over-express.

So I over-nod, I bobble
head when I'm very nervous.

Yeah.

Um, I, uh, pace the stage, right?

Which is very distracting
for your audience.

I will over-gesture or fidget
gesture, and so I need to lessen my

expression, or I need to, apologies.

I need to make it more purposeful.

Matt Abrahams: We'll be right
back to finish our conversation.

But first, a quick word
from one of our sponsors.

Their support allows us to bring
you this show free of charge.

One of my favorite things
about this show is hearing from

listeners all over the world.

Communication connects us, and the
more people you can communicate

with, the bigger your world becomes.

So many of you are collaborating
internationally, working across cultures,

or simply trying to connect more
deeply with people around the world.

That's one reason I've been thinking
more and more about language learning.

Babbel focuses on helping you have
real conversations with real people,

not just memorized vocabulary.

Their lessons are designed by more
than 200 language experts and built

around practical communication skills
you can actually use in everyday life.

And because the lessons are short
and approachable, it's easy to

fit them in a busy schedule.

Just 10 minutes a day can help
you make meaningful progress.

If you've ever thought about
learning a new language, this is

the perfect opportunity to start.

Right now, Babbel is offering up to 60%
off your subscription at babbel.com/tfts.

And now, back to our conversation.

I really like this idea of under and
over-signaling and recording yourself and

watching and identifying, where am I over?

Where am I under?

Am I consistently one way or the other?

Is a great way to diagnose.

Again, the goal is not to script gestures.

The goal is just to become aware
so that we can be more purposeful,

and I really appreciate that.

I know you see presence being more
than what we do with our bodies.

You are all about impact
and word choice as well.

What are a few common danger words
we use in everyday emails or pitches

that can adversely affect our
credibility and how people see us?

Vanessa Van Edwards: There are two
kind of danger zone buckets for verbal.

The first is sterile, and the
second is accidentally negative.

And I think that these are
crippling our communication.

They add a lot of friction
without realizing it.

So first, let's talk about sterile.

So much of our communication has
moved from in-person to solely verbal,

only over email, Slack, text, chat.

And so more of our critical ideas
and our first impressions and our

presence is communicating only
verbally, which means we are becoming

more sterile with our communication
because we are doing it so much.

So very sterile communication is
autopilot words, the subject follow-up.

Words like, uh, get back to
you, just thinking about it,

checking in, wanna circle back.

Phrases and words that we hear
all the time that our brain

doesn't even register as emotion.

Like it's, it's just, um,
default communication.

The problem is when we do this over
email or chat over and over again, the

brain goes on autopilot, too, right?

Our, our, our reaction is just,
oh, this email's gonna be like

every other email I've ever gotten.

And so the first thing that I wanna fight
with danger zone is breaking the sterile,

is adding in words that do have a little
bit of emotion, a little bit of behavior.

So for example, if you have a meeting
coming up, what is the feeling that

you want someone to feel when they
see your name pop up in their inbox?

How do you want them to behave that
sets them up for success and you up

for success in the actual meeting?

So a calendar invite is
a great example of this.

I always have my students do a calendar
invite audit, where I have them look

at their calendar, they open up the
calendar, and I have them write down

all the, um, emotion words they see.

So meeting one-on-one,
review, doesn't count.

Video call, doesn't count.

And usually there are none, right?

But every single time you open your
calendar, you're priming yourself with

a verbal cue, and you're also, that's
often the meeting's first impression that

your client is getting or your student
is getting or your colleague's getting.

So if you want it to be a collaborative
session, call it a collaborative meeting.

If you want it to be a strategy
session, call it a strategy session.

If you want it to be about 2026
goals, call it 2026 goal review.

We can add in very, very small
words that wake our brains up

and begin to cue for behavior.

That fights that sterile.

The second is accidentally
negative, and this happens verbally.

Usually in the first minute of
interaction, which is incredibly

important for your first
impression, we throw away our words.

We start by saying, "Oh my
gosh, it's been so busy.

What a crazy schedule.

So sorry I'm late.

What terrible traffic.

This horrible weather." When we do
that, you're literally cueing the

other person's brain to go negative.

Matt Abrahams: This notion of sterile
language and negative language is

absolutely something we need to, to
look at and to be concerned with.

How we prime people impacts
how they see us, and doing an

audit of our language can help.

I am one hundred percent behind
you on thinking about meeting

invites and calendar invites.

Most people don't like going to
meetings, so calling something a meeting

immediately triggers a negative aspect.

So I like your idea of how can we bring
action just to the titles of our meetings.

And what we say when we
initiate interaction can set

ourselves up for success.

So thank you for sharing those bits of
advice, and I encourage everybody to

do an audit of how you start things.

Beyond our bodies and words, you highlight
imagery cues, and I really like this idea.

What are the colors we wear?

Are the props visible in our background?

We are secretly telling people things
about our status, our trustworthiness.

Can you give us some insight
into these imagery cues?

Vanessa Van Edwards: I love thinking
about imagery because we don't

realize that we are creating or
triggering people's neural maps.

Now, this is a concept
that I fell in love with.

You know, I'm, I'm a researcher, and
I fell in love with it because it's

this idea that one word can light
up a kind of tree in someone's mind.

So for example, if I were to, on a
dating website and have a picture of me

skiing, someone seeing me skiing would
trigger a whole tree of activation.

Now, for some people, they might
think fun, adventure, family, amazing.

Other people would think cold,
dangerous, scary, adrenaline.

Matt Abrahams: I'm in the
latter camp, by the way

Vanessa Van Edwards: I don't ski.

So those are two completely
different behavioral responses.

I think there's opportunity here
to be purposeful with the kind

of neural maps you're creating.

And so we can think about in our Zoom
background, the props on our desk, what

we're holding in our profile pictures.

When I'm working with companies,
what's on your website?

Um, what's in your commercials?

What's on your social profiles?

What's in your header?

Those are all creating neural maps,
and here's the thing I think is

maybe a little bit controversial
Sometimes you don't want to have a

neural map that appeals to everyone.

I think it's actually better to create
neural maps that appeal to your people.

I like blueprints, formula, framework.

You know, I, I love very specific, uh,
black and white teaching of soft skills.

There are some people who will not like
that, and they are not our people, right?

Like, they're not going to like my
science-backed approach to conversation

because they're our formula.

So on our website, we created allergies
for those people so that when they come

to us, if you love that, you are gonna
be attracted to the imagery we use,

imagery of science, imagery of chemicals,
uh, imagery of words like science

and, um, certificate and blueprint.

That, we do that on purpose 'cause
I don't want to appeal to everyone.

And so I think for us and for
listeners to think about is who

are the kind of people who are your
people that you really get along with?

It removes friction if you can
call to those people faster.

Matt Abrahams: We had a great
conversation with Seth Godin, who talks

very similarly to find your tribe,
find the people, and target them.

What you add to it that I think is
great is, is the idea of allergies.

What can we build in not just to
speak to the people we wanna speak

to, but what do we put out there that
signals to people that, that aren't

our people that this isn't for you?

And we're saving them time, and
we're saving ourselves time,

so that's really interesting.

But taking a step back, this idea of
curating the experience for people, not

just in what you say and how you say it,
but what you show makes a difference.

I'll give you an example that
I find really fascinating.

There's some recent research that says
with those backgrounds people put, you,

you have three choices of backgrounds
when you're virtual: a real background, as

you and I have, uh, uh, an image that you
put up, or that blurry, fuzzy background.

And what the research says is the blurry,
fuzzy background primes people to think

that you're hiding something, that
there's something you want to keep away

from them, and that's how they come to
your communication, to the interaction.

So what we show people helps them
form opinions of us and filter

what we say, and you highlight that
very clearly when you talk about

imagery cues, and I appreciate that.

Vanessa Van Edwards: And also, with
a blurry background, I think you're

actually missing an opportunity, right?

Like, my goal in interaction
is to make it as easy to

communicate with me as possible.

That should always be our goal, is
that we wanna put people at ease.

If you are hiding your background,
their brain, one, it's one step even

further from in person, 'cause we
don't have a blurry background in

person, so it, it's even further.

But also you're missing an
opportunity to give them cues that

might help them know you, and that
makes it easy to communicate with.

Matt Abrahams: If you enjoyed my
recent conversation with Jean and

Cherie from The Tiger Sisters, I
think you'll really love their show.

Jean and Cherie are known as the
Internet's Wall Street and Silicon

Valley big sisters, and together
they've built Tiger Sisters into a

top-ranked business podcast, reaching
number one in business and top

three overall in Spotify in the US.

They take big and sometimes complicated
ideas around money, power, and love,

and turn them into clear, practical
tools you can apply right away.

Two fun facts: I coached Cherie
for her TEDx talk, and I had the

chance to join them on their show.

And I have to say, it was a really
thoughtful and engaging conversation.

They ask great questions and bring
a perspective you don't always hear.

New episodes drop every Monday on their
YouTube channel and across all audio

platforms at Tiger Sisters Podcast.

We all grew up with the golden rule, uh,
but you advocate for something a little,

a little ritzier, the, the platinum rule.

What's the difference, and how
does applying it change the way

we motivate and appreciate the
people we work with in our teams?

Vanessa Van Edwards: I was raised
with the golden rule, treat others

as you would treat yourself.

And the golden rule got me in trouble.

And it did.

It got me in trouble because it actually
is quite self-focused I believe, I've

come to learn that if you are very
self-focused interaction, especially

at work and especially in, in high
stakes interactions, it is very hard

to have empathy, compassion, and see
where the other person is coming from.

Because you've, you're in the
filter of, well, how would

I wanna be treated in this?

The platinum rule is treat others
as they would wanna be treated,

and it is a very different mental
shift in every social interaction.

It helps you be other focused, which
is an immediate click on for empathy

because you're thinking, what is
happening in their world, in their day?

If I were them, what would be
worrying me or keeping me up at night?

What would my goal or motivation be?

And it completely changes your questions.

So instead of a back and forth
of I feel, I feel, I feel, it's

why, why do you feel that way?

How do you feel that way?

What made you feel that way?

And it creates a very
different way of communicating.

And so I'm trying to encourage people
to think more about the platinum rule.

This is actually, I think,
the more elevated and more

challenging way to communicate.

Matt Abrahams: It requires that we really
appreciate our audience and understand

what's important and relevant to them.

And when we do that, then we can
be in service of them and, and

achieve the platinum rule and
really give them what they need.

Vanessa, this has been fantastic.

I knew we were gonna have
a, a great conversation.

As you know, uh, I end with three
questions, one I make up just

for you, and then two I've been
asking everybody for a long time.

Are you up for that?

Vanessa Van Edwards: I love it.

Yes.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

So you study so many
interesting and exciting things.

Would you be willing to give us a
little sneak peek into something

that you're exploring currently?

Vanessa Van Edwards: I've spent the last
eight years diving into conversation.

Captivate is about first impressions.

Uh, Cues is about charisma
and, uh, non-verbal.

The one thing missing I felt was a deep
look at how do we elevate conversation.

How do we move from casual
acquaintances to best friends?

Matt Abrahams: Right.

Vanessa Van Edwards: And so in
October, my next book is coming out,

and it's the blueprint for meaningful
connective conversation if you want it.

Taking back control.

You don't need to go to level
three with your Uber driver

unless you want to, right?

So for introverts, for my introverts,
this book is really for, for you,

for my introverts and ambiverts,
is how do we take back control in

conversation and create connection
without having to fake being extroverted?

The book is done, and I'm just,
like, I'm just so excited for it to

be in people's hands, and so that's
gonna be, that's my next big one.

I can't wait.

Matt Abrahams: Question number two, I'll
be very curious for your answer for this.

Who's a communicator
that you admire, and why?

Vanessa Van Edwards: Mine is Lucille Ball.

I think that laughter is
the lubrication of learning.

I think laughter is the,
um, shortcut to connection.

Um, I'm not very funny, but I do
try to be, and I think, um, her as a

communicator, she was able to communicate
so much, uh, about values and family and

ambition and fame, uh, through her humor,
and also was extremely entrepreneurial

and created a whole new way of filming.

And so I think Lucille Ball was one
of those communicators where she just

was able to be herself on camera.

Matt Abrahams: She was truly special,
not just on camera, but behind, in

this idea that levity can really
be a useful tool for connection.

And for our younger audiences who
might not recognize Lucille Ball

right away, find your favorite search
engine, go search Lucille Ball and

Chocolate Factory, and you can see
how somebody can communicate a lot

of information with very few words.

Final question, what are the first
three ingredients that go into a

successful communication recipe?

Vanessa Van Edwards: The first
one is weird, but, um, dog energy.

And what I mean by that is dogs, you
know, most dogs, not all, but most

dogs are really excited to see you.

They assume the best, right?

Like, they are like, "Do
you have a treat for me?

Do you have a pet for me?" I think
dog energy, like that assumption of

good, that assumption of there could
be a nice treat or pet waiting for

you, um, in this conversation, I think
is the first thing, that bringing

that energy and that perspective as
opposed to, you know, cat energy, and

I love a cat, but you know, cat energy
of like, "I'm gonna play it cool.

I'm gonna wait until they like me first.

I'm gonna be mysterious." That is very
challenging, uh, to make, to make,

um, good and successful communication.

So dog energy.

Second is something I touched on
earlier, which is this idea of

putting the other person at ease.

I think, um, for those social overthinkers
like me, uh, we can get very in our head.

The only way I think to get out of
our head is to get into their head.

So the platinum rule is how
can I put this person at ease?

That's, uh, an, an incredibly
important gift you can give someone

and also gets out of your own head.

And, uh, third is to appeal
to the caveman brain.

In successful communication, uh, when
you're hiding something, when you

are anxious, when you have negative
non-verbals, those are perceived

as microaggressions that make
them feel more afraid and anxious.

And so the easier you can be to
communicate with, the clearer your

warmth, the clearer your confidence,
the clearer that you're signaling that

you know what you're talking about, that
actually puts them at ease and helps

relax that caveman part of their brain.

I think those are the, the
best ingredients you can have

for successful communication.

Matt Abrahams: Bringing energy and
desire to be communicated to and to

communicate with others, putting others
first and what's important for them, and

showing that you're open and receptive.

Wonderful recipe, and clearly, uh, one
that would lead to less friction and

more enjoyment in our communication.

And I have to say, Vanessa,
this was incredibly enjoyable.

Lots of great tips and advice.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you for your collaboration,
and I appreciate and wish

you luck on the new book.

Vanessa Van Edwards: Thank
you so much for having me.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining
us for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about nonverbal
communication, listen to

episode 137 with Dana Carney.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Alex McCarthy,

Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With special thanks to
Podium Podcast Company.

Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts.

Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

Also, follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and
Instagram and check out fastersmarter.io

for deep dive videos, English language
learning content, and our newsletter.

Please consider joining our Think
Fast, Talk Smart Learning Community

at fastersmarter.io/learning.

You'll find video lessons, learning
quests, discussion boards, an AI

coach, and book club opportunities.

Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning
to become part of our global Think

Fast, Talk Smart Learning Community.