Essential Dynamics with Derek Hudson

Tribes, standardization, creativity and The Innovator's Dilemma.

Show Notes

Derek is at derekhudson.ca. 
See full show notes at the Essential Dynamics Wiki.

What is Essential Dynamics with Derek Hudson?

Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!

Reed:

Welcome. Welcome to Essential Dynamics. I'm Reed McColm, and I just have to turn down my guitar here. There we go. I'm Reed McCollum, your host, and, looking forward to talking about Essential Dynamics with Business Titan and, wonderful, wonderful speaker, my friend Derek Hudson.

Reed:

Derek, how are you today?

Derek:

Hey, Reed. I'm doing great. And, yes, I I can speak. My mother taught me. Yeah.

Derek:

I'm glad. I'm glad. Shut up since. So there you go.

Reed:

That's good, Will. I knew your mother, and I I think she was a wise woman. So, Derek, I want to talk again today about the individual and the group, if we could, and how it relates to essential dynamics because I have have a question about how we relate let's put some of the principles in the essential dynamics in a high school for for just the sake of argument. I think there's a lot of, resistance there and a lot of, opportunity for creativity. How do we resolve those things?

Derek:

Okay. So this is cool. I know we've mentioned this before that you and I went to high school together.

Reed:

And our engineer, Bryn Griffiths.

Derek:

And junior high as as did Bryn. It's been a long time. But high school is yeah. It's what what do they call it? It's a crucible.

Derek:

And actually, in the we were just before we got on air, we were talking about Gren was talking about one of the teachers that you guys had in in drama. And he finally admitted, you know, four years later that he wasn't teaching drama. He was teaching life. High school is a really interesting time for that.

Reed:

Yeah. Sure is.

Derek:

In the context of in the in the in the context of essential dynamics, where where I look at the individual is this natural tension between the individual's desire for being their own person and then our desire to connect with other people Right. And and be part of a group. And high school is that time, you know, you gotta find your group, and you're also figuring out who you are. And there's a really interesting interplay between personal development and then peer pressure.

Reed:

Yes.

Derek:

And and and, you know, we all went we went to Harry Aynley High School in in Edmonton, Alberta. The time, it was

Reed:

Which just people not from Edmonton, hearing that name, that was my high school's name, Harry Aynley High School. It just it sounds pretty funny. Well, you

Derek:

wouldn't you wouldn't brand it anyway. You wouldn't like, you're branding a high school. That's not what you

Reed:

would use. No. No. Yeah.

Derek:

And, anyway, we we went to that high school. It was a big high school at the time. It's bigger now, one of the biggest in the city in terms of student population. And so when you come in in grade 10 with a class of probably 750 grade 10 students, you're not gonna know everybody ever. You're not gonna be friends with everybody.

Derek:

In fact, my experience at our graduation, which we spoke at, by the way, our my experience at graduation is I walk watch people walk across the stage that I swore I'd never seen before in my life. It was segmented,

Reed:

and there were it wasn't just one group of people. We encountered many groups of people that naturally segmented and and broke off into their own little groups.

Derek:

That that was exactly my point. Because the school was so big, the the idea was you had to find you had to find your tribe Yeah. In the school. And and some people were, you know, multi talented and they moved from from one to the other. But, you know, that was the way to survive in high school is to to find your tribe.

Derek:

And I'll just I'll just share a little bit of a secret then that I think, you know, we we talked earlier about parents and and their goals with their children. I'm pretty sure that my parents were very wise in saying, we want to have a strong influence on the friends that our kids have.

Reed:

Oh.

Derek:

And so the the investment that my parents made into to that outcome was money and food.

Reed:

Yes. I remember. They they paid me to be your friend, Derek. I'm not sure you

Derek:

knew that. Turned into food. And, of course, our my house was close to the junior high, so that's where, you know, the people would kids would come and eat at my house. Yes. So I had a group of friends going in to high school that my parents had cultivated by who they fed, I think.

Derek:

I don't know what it is.

Reed:

Uh-huh.

Derek:

But but, you know, it's I mean, it's it's a big important decision to kinda pick your tribe in high school.

Reed:

I'm interested, Derek. Did you do the same thing with your kids? You know,

Derek:

we had our our starter home wasn't very far from Vernon Barford Junior High, which is a excellent school, academic talents there, stuff like that. And so we thought that would be great if we lived close to junior high because junior high kids are less mobile, so we'll see more of their friends. And then we had we had number four a little bit later than our three girls, and we're looking for a different house. But number one criteria is they can't be too far away from Vernant Barker. Ah.

Derek:

So that we could, you know So they

Reed:

would maintain their same their same connections?

Derek:

Well, just so just so, you know, we, yeah, we have a connection to their friends and, you know, and it was, you know, good school and stuff like that. And, you know, they all made great choices with their friends. Although I remember one of my daughters, wholesale change in high school.

Reed:

Oh, really?

Derek:

Yeah. Like, it wasn't the group turned out, you know, grade nine girls or maybe you know? I don't know. That's when they start to express themselves in different ways, and and she she went to a different high school than they did and tracked into a different group, and it was it was, you know, very positive development in her life. Great.

Derek:

Great. So, anyway, the the you know, your question, in my mind, one of the the interesting things is all of us have to decide who we are as people. And in high school, a lot of ways you define that is what groups you're in.

Reed:

Yes.

Derek:

And that can be really positive, but it also can be negative.

Reed:

Of course.

Derek:

Because if you're in a group that, you know, doesn't have either high standards or doesn't have, you know, values that that really represent deep down who you are, then you get you get a little bit of turmoil and, you know, keen angst and all that kind of stuff. There's it's a real thing because, you know, we're not necessarily ready to figure out who we are as as people. And so the influence of the group is so so tremendous.

Reed:

Yes. So influence of the group will be in high school is frequently, so tremendous that it is long lasting even if you're not in touch with those same people. I ran with the greasers and the crime breakers, and, so it took me a long time and a a a very lengthy lengthy prison stay to actually change my life and become the good person that I am now.

Derek:

And that's that's all reflected in your novel. Right? So

Reed:

let's let's go beyond high school then. Let's let's look what about how do you how do we balance conformance and create with creativity and and creativity with the knowledge that workers have. How do dynamic forces show up with the people part of Exensual Dynamics?

Derek:

So, you know, if we if we talk about a company, you know, an organization, and I talked about it a little bit, maybe even just last episode, where organization is figuring out a way to do stuff. Yeah. And and in our model, that's the path. So there's value in standardizing steps along the path. In fact, hey, here's a cool analogy I haven't used before.

Derek:

This winter, I took up cross country ski. And we got a dump of snow in November. I my skis showed up just a couple days before that. I was out on the the trails or the boulevards just around my house. Yes.

Derek:

And you can do a five k ski in you know, first thing in the morning. You feel great. But one of the things I found is because I was out early in the season and early in the morning, there were no tracks.

Reed:

Oh, so you were making them?

Derek:

So I was making the tracks. And when the snow is deep, that's hard work, and you don't really feel there's no glide. You don't feel like you're You're really getting anywhere. Yeah. Getting anywhere.

Derek:

But I would go out for a ways, and then I turn around and come back. And the second time back was, like, was, like, three times better than the first time.

Reed:

Because my tracks made

Derek:

And then I would turn around and go over those tracks again.

Reed:

Oh.

Derek:

And so cross country skiing, as I've as I've learned, is, you know, everyone wants to know what condition the tracks are in.

Reed:

Ah.

Derek:

And at the various, you know, golf courses and parks and stuff like that where tracks are set, when the tracks are set well, it's a it's a fun experience. Sure. And so I you know, I've had that experience hiking as well. Like, hiking on an established path, especially if it contours up the mountain nicely, you know, that's great. But sometimes we wanna go off the path.

Reed:

And that's where you get into trouble?

Derek:

Well but it's fun too. So today so last week, yes, I got I went off the tracks and got into trouble and wiped out, and I'm hobbling around with the pulled hamstring now. But if I go back to my experience this past summer, for the first time in the Rockies, I went on a 50 kilometer hike that didn't have a trail.

Reed:

No trail.

Derek:

No trail? We had GPS points. I see. And we knew the the the route. But but in terms of actually choosing, you know, the close to the creek, far away from the creek, by the rocks, through the forest.

Derek:

That was all choices that we had to make. It was super fun, but, you know, progress is slow.

Reed:

So it's not it wasn't dangerous? Well, look at me. I'm talking dangerous. I'm not an experienced hiker except for what we did as kids. And, you talk about getting up in the morning and having a having a five k skiing run.

Reed:

I'm sure that sounds fun to you. I I, of course, have a lifestyle of, you know, getting up at the crack of ten and being done in time for judge duty. So your, your lifestyle may be different than mine.

Derek:

Well, it's pretty pretty similar these days now that I'm to get my leg back and shape. But Yeah. So so, anyway, to to make the point, there's a lot of value in having established paths in our lives. And in an if an organization has figured out how to make a great omelet and people come into the restaurant in the morning expecting that great omelet, you really kinda have to follow the recipe.

Reed:

You have to do it the same you did before.

Derek:

Do it the same way because that's what people expect. Yeah. That's true. So so that's the standardization part. One of the risks of standardization is that driving out creativity.

Derek:

Yeah. Bryn Bryn, we were talking earlier about a colleague who has been in the broadcasting business for years and and Bryn just said, well, he's a good guy, but he's old school. Uh-huh. And the problem is is that sometimes the old school is so old it's not relevant anymore.

Reed:

Yes. But they're also you there's a corollary to that, and that is the old school took so long to learn. I'm reluctant to divert from that path because I just got the the hang of the old school method. Sure. Yeah.

Reed:

Absolutely. So so, you

Derek:

know, in this concept of essential dynamics where the path is, you know, part of the system, there you have to have a balance between it's easy to walk on the old path. It's efficient to walk on the old path, but the old path might not lead you in the right direction. And so that that's that tension. So what you know, where I saw it at at MicroLine, so this is a highly creative technical environment. People are figuring out how to do stuff at a microscopic scale that hasn't ever been done before.

Derek:

And we have these really agile, creative minds trying this, that, and whatever to get this thing figured out. So they figure out how to make this tiny device on a silicon wafer. And if if they, you know, they'll hold their tongue just right. And if the moon's in the right phase, then they can produce this product. And it's amazing what it does.

Derek:

And then our customer says, that's great. Thank you very much. I'll take a thousand a week.

Reed:

Right. Now how do you mass produce that if it was magic the first time?

Derek:

Yeah. And and so that's that's the creative tension is, you know, standardization is great, but we also need this novelty and we need this this creativity. So, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna bounce it back because I really like this theater business parallel that we're developing here.

Reed:

Well, if you're talking about the individual in the group, and I'm thinking the individual isn't always reliable. I think of the dog in the animated movie Up, which who was, who stowed away with the old man as as he ballooned into the sky. And the dog, would be a reliable companion on the path until he saw a squirrel. Squirrel. And then he'd be completely distracted.

Reed:

And I think people are like that. I at least people I've worked with, including myself. And, as soon as we find something that is that overrides our our commitment to you, oh, we've gotta talk about that right now. And, therefore, my productivity to you as my business manager may not be as strong.

Derek:

So I think that, you know, a great business environment, you know, does two things. And, you know, this is the dynamics of, you know, the the model that we're talking about. Wonder one is that it standardizes on all the best way of doing things. And then the other is it has ways to bring improvements into that process. And if that's ineffective, at some point, you blow it up and start over again.

Derek:

If you are successful in making the product in one way, however,

Reed:

it's going to be very difficult to the more successful you are in making that product in that way, it's going to be very difficult to change that way or improve it.

Derek:

Hey. Hey, Reid. This that's a thank you for saying that. It's fantastic. I know we don't have a lot of time left, but there's a there's a book that I haven't referred to yet.

Derek:

It's one of my top five business books of all time called The Innovator's Dilemma Uh-huh. By Clayton Christensen. And he goes beyond what you said, which is the company has a business model, you know, established on the old way.

Reed:

Yeah. Yeah.

Derek:

So, you know, you've learned how to make VCRs. Right.

Reed:

Which it doesn't yeah.

Derek:

Yeah. And you're really, really good at it. And now you have to change because VCRs aren't a thing.

Reed:

Right. And they're they're obsolete. But what do you do?

Derek:

Your entire business model is set up on the old product, the old way. And so that's it's a dilemma because you you're still making money doing it.

Reed:

Right. I think of Kodak who for years in our generation, for years, were the reliable film company. And, then now that pictures can be taken on your camera digitally, it it very nearly put them right out of business.

Derek:

They hey. I have personal experience with that because when I was at MicroLine, Kodak bought our biggest customer.

Reed:

Oh.

Derek:

And it was an effort to try and diversify beyond, you know, film into and this is a digital this is a digital imaging product. But meanwhile, their their business is just getting hammered. And so I remember this one meeting where the new guy comes from New York, and he's gonna tell us how it's all gonna get better. And guess what? How it was all gonna get better is that we were gonna do way more for them for less money.

Derek:

Yeah. That's right. Because because their business was based on, you know, a dying industry. Right. Which they saw coming, but based on the innovator's dilemma, they couldn't do anything about it.

Reed:

That's an tough thing. Here in Alberta, we have an oil industry that is, that is struggling to maintain relevance in a time of lowering or even bottoming, oil prices, do we find a better way to produce the oil, or do we find a better a better, I don't know, way

Derek:

of living? All of that. So here we are. We've spent our time talking today, and we've just unearthed a really cool new subject. Which we're gonna have to talk about in the next part.

Derek:

Talk about. So I I just wanna recap on the old part. Okay. And then maybe we can set up the new part. So the so the originally, what we were talking about is that you you need to conform and standardize, follow the path, it's more efficient, and you get better product.

Derek:

You get more predictable product. But you also need to innovate and create. Yeah. And so a way to do that within the system is that we're gonna lock down how we do this and have a team trying to figure out how the version two looks. Right.

Derek:

And then we're gonna interject and bring version two in to the mix. And everyone has to learn how to upgrade their their particular part of the operation or change the recipe so we can get a better result.

Reed:

Oh, there's lots of there's lots to to feast on there. Let's do it in our next, podcast, Derek. The that's version two, we'll save for then. But, I so enjoy talking to you. Thank you very much for your time.

Reed:

If people want to get ahold of you, how do they do that?

Derek:

So two ways. One is they can find me on the web at Derek Hudson dot c a. Great. And the second is, and that's just because of where where we started this episode, they could walk down the main hallway at Harry Inley and find all of us in the 1978 photo in the what my kids call the hall of shame.

Reed:

In the hall of shame. Yes. That's that's how I feel about it too. But, nonetheless, I so enjoy talking with you, Derek Hudson, and, thank you very much for your time. And thank you to our engineer, Brynn Griffiths, who does this marvelous, engineering for us.

Reed:

And until next time, consider your path.