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The smart way to create a compassionate and professional lactation private practice, hosted by private practice IBCLCs Annie Frisbie and Leah Jolly.
Leah Jolly is a private practice IBCLC with Bay Area Breastfeeding in Houston, Texas.
Annie Frisbie is a private practice IBCLC serving Queens and Brooklyn in New York City and the creator of the Lactation Consultant Private Practice Toolkit.
Tune in each week to learn all the ins and outs of running a successful private practice lactation business!
Connect with Leah and Annie:
On Instagram: @lactationbusinesscoaching
On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lactationbusinesscoaching
On YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv3-4pMgjlzbXD9KWFCIV3-1LipsTbgsj
Annie: Hello Leah.
Leah: Hello Annie. This is kind of a different setup for us because we are actually face to face in Annie's house recording a podcast together. I'm so excited. I am in New York.
Annie: Coming to you from Queens all the way from Houston. I have Leah sitting right across from me, which is pretty awesome. We're usually crouched in closets and hiding from our people and here we are together. So we're super excited to be able to do a podcast in person cause you know it's just always better when you can be together.
Leah: Yes, and I get to make my first trip to New York, which was so fun. A little intimidating. I was preparing myself for all the New York stories you hear about, but it was really easy and smooth and I made it safely to Annie's place. So, hey!
Annie: And here we are. There were a lot of scheduling logistics involved in getting Leah here on both of our ends and that's pretty convenient that our sponsor for today's episode is Acuity Scheduling. So is your client scheduling a crazy, hot mess? Well never ask what time works for you again. Your clients can quickly view your real time availability and self-book their own appointments and even pay online. Don't hate, integrate. Visit Acuityscheduling.com/ref/lbc which stands for lactation business coaching for a 45-day free trial. We will have that link in the show notes.
Leah: I love Acuity. We use it for my practice and it's really helped us because we have several LCs in the practice, so we're always trying to figure out who's working when and everything. So now we have it set up where people can put in their own schedule. If they need to block it, they can just get on there and block. You know, I've got to take my kids to the dentist, I don't want to book any appointments. So it's actually helped with our in-practice communication too, cause everybody can kinda self-direct their schedule, which is really a nice feature that I like a lot.
Annie: And you get the people who are like, it's two o'clock in the morning and my nipples hurt and then they can schedule.
Leah: Right then.
Annie: And then there they are. So I'm a big fan of Acuity. I've been using it for a while. I just love how they do things and I'm really happy that they sponsored us and are giving us this great deal, cause usually you only get a week and they're giving you 45 days.
Leah: That's amazing. That is simply amazing. I was sold after a week, so 45 days is definitely going to seal the deal for you for sure.
Annie: So the reason Leah is here is because we're doing ...well, by the time this podcast comes out, we will have already done a all day group practice training. So talking with a bunch of awesome lactation consultants about how to create and run a group practice. So we thought for our topic today that we would stay in that same vein and we're going to give you three ways that you can collaborate with other lactation consultants because we're super into working together.
Leah: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's so many inventive and creative ways that you don't have to do the traditional practice model. There's other ways that you can still be in collaboration with other lactation consultants and have a group practice feel to it on many different levels. So I think it's going to be a great talk today.
Annie: And if you're hearing that and you're like, wait, what? Leah and Annie are doing a little mini conference about group practices? How come I didn't know about this? Well, it's sold out really fast and we totally want to do it again. So if you're interested in having Leah and I come and speak, we would love to hear from you. So you can just send us an email hello@lactationbusinesscoaching.com. We'd love to hear from you. So we're super excited. So before we get into the episode, Leah is in a group practice and she's got a super fun marketing tip today about her group practice and something cute they all do together.
Leah: So we got shirts that are branded shirts. So the front has a fun saying, it says keep calm and latch
on and then the back has our logo on it and we will wear these when we do consults, but we'll also wear them when we go anywhere together. So conferences or for doing like a baby expo or some kind of booth somewhere, we'll wear them. And it's funny cause I have a funny story about it. I was in Whole Foods in Houston wearing my shirt, minding my own business, trying to run in and get lunch real quick in between consults actually. And a lady runs up to me from behind cause my logo's on the back and she's, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, you're those people. Yes. I've seen you guys everywhere. I can't believe I'm seeing you. And it was so funny cause it felt like a moment of celebrity mode, cause she was like I can't believe I'm meeting you right now. I was like, Oh that was a little much, but it was super fun because just wearing it around town, you might get more brand recognition, especially if you have something really eye-catching or a fun name like that. I think it really helps solidify your branding. So think about getting some kind of branded closing for your group practice is my marketing tip.
Annie: It's a great marketing tip. I love it. I still don't have branded anything for myself but it's just me. So I'm like, whatever I'm wearing today, I'm branding myself.
Leah: Hey, there's some definite benefits to that as well, because laundry has to get done if I run out of purple scrubs or my branded shirt. So there's not as much leeway there. So we are talking today about collaborating with other lactation consultants and some different ways that you can do that. And a very kind of easy way to just get started in working with other lactation consultants would be to get involved in any local groups that you have. Like if you have a USLCA chapter in your area or if your area has a coalition or a group of lactation consultants like our area has, the Houston Area Lactation Consultants and Educators Association. And so one thing that you could do is start with some work or collaboration there. Have you been involved in your group here?
Annie: Yeah, we have a local chapter of USLCA and you can go to USLCA.org and find your local chapter. And if there isn't one, they'll make it really easy for you to start one. As our professional association for the United States, it can be a great way to work together and build recognition in the community and access some of USLCA's resources I know in other countries too, cause we do have non-US people listening that you can do your own LCA chapter, or your own regional chapter through your country. So just showing up at these events and asking how I'm here to help. So look on their calendar and say, are you doing anything for World Breastfeeding Week? Are you doing anything for Black Breastfeeding Week? Is there some meeting with a Senator that I can help with, that I can come? Can I get signatures for legislation? Is there a nurse-in happening? I know you seem to keep popping up, especially now that it's getting warmer, and people think they're allowed to breastfeed wherever they want to - and should it be allowed to breastfeed wherever they want to.
Leah: Without having to put a heavy blanket all over them in this so-bad heat. When I left Houston, the heat index was 109 degrees. So so yeah, with these coalitions or the USLC chapters, they have so many options for things that you can do. A lot of times they're dying to have board members and it doesn't have to be a big job. In our group, they've broken it down into really small jobs so you're not taking on like, Oh, I'm about to run an entire chapter of us LCA. No, you can take small little groups, little parts of that job and that way you're collaborating and you're networking. And I really think this helps from a marketing perspective of just having that recognition as somebody who's active in the community. People start to know you and feel more comfortable referring to people that they know. So a lot of this also brings the hospital-based LCs together with the private practice LCs. These chapters do. And I think that's so important because the hospital-based LCs need to know who's out in the community that they are connecting with and they feel really comfortable referring to and vice versa. We need to know who's in the hospital. I think hospital LCs sometimes get a bad rap. They don't have a lot of time with moms to build big connections, and so once you know them, I know that they're doing this. I know that they're doing that. And the mom, maybe just her perception was so narrow because it was such a short time that those LCs got to spend. So I think it makes a really nice way to just start to get to know who's in your community and how you can connect and network with them.
Annie: And you can also connect with the volunteer groups, especially for one of these big events like World Breastfeeding Week, if there's some La Leche League event happening, a lot of times you're going to be working together and saying, well, we're doing it on this day and you're doing it on that day, and even so that those people know that's the IBCLC who showed up and did our little walk-a-thon with us or whatever it is that is doing. You can participate in fundraisers for these volunteer groups. They often need people and sometimes they just even need money, make a donation to them. So showing that local support to the groups that are actually making a difference for families can be a lot of fun. Our Milka meetings are always a great time and we always stay up too late. I would come home and I'm vibrating cause I'm like, I just had amazing conversations. Somebody wanted a ride home and then we talked and I always feel like the more time face to face you spend with people, the less easy it is for you to feel competitive or threatened by them. I mean, we're all trying to make a living but these are my people and I want all of us to make a living and how can we do that for each other? How can we keep pushing each other forward?
Leah: absolutely. Absolutely. Well that is a great way for us to really start connecting. I think another really interesting model as I was doing a lot of research and I know you have experienced in this too, it's an informal almost referral network that you build that because you do make these wonderful connections and these maybe coalitions or the chapters and you make all these connections and before you know it you're noticing Hey, I'm always ending up referring to these five people that are closest to me and can hit the same areas that I can cover. And before you know it, y'all just informally start sharing referrals with each other and sometimes that can be taken a step further. How has that worked for you in your area? Cause I know you guys kind of have like an informal way to refer when you're not available or if you're too far away,
Annie: Well it started out being informal and we started posting in our Facebook group for the New York Lactation Consultants' Association referrals, but then people weren't seeing them. And we also have some members of the Facebook group who are not IBCLCs. They're affiliate members or they joined cause our tongue tie provider joined to show support but we don't need you seeing us trying to get clients covered. And so here in New York City, there are a million babies born every minute and many of them want a home visit. I just had a woman email me last night. She said, my doula gave me your information because she says you book up really quickly. I'm due in October. Now we are recording this in June.
Leah: Oh my goodness.
Annie: First of all, I love this doula. I was like, Rebecca, I'm sorry I can't. I don't even know what my schedule is going to look like. Contact me when your baby's born. But she was like, can I be on your waiting list? Could I?
Leah: Oh my goodness!
Annie: So it's things like that that come up. So now I know in the back of my mind that this woman is going to be circling back to me in October when her baby's born. I don't know if I'm going to be available or not. And October is really like the ramp up of baby season. That's when the babies themselves are calling us, like I was just born. Come get me. Come see me, not the guy in the next bed, so it's crazy. And so I know there's a very good chance I will not be available, so I have to find somebody else who's available. Used to be, I had my own list of I know these people go to this neighbourhood and they go to that neighbourhood, but then they wouldn't be available. And somebody, one of us had the bright idea to create a chat group on WhatsApp, which is a free app. It's encrypted messaging and so anybody who wants to be on this group, just sign up with your phone number. Now we have this group text called IBCLC referrals, and so somebody emails me or texts me and says, Hey, I'm in Kew Gardens and I need a home visit. Are you available? And I'm like, I'm not available. Or they'll say, I'm in the Upper West Side. I don't go to the Upper West Side, and so I'll go on my group and I'll just say Kew gardens and within 20 minutes, usually I get at least two people saying I'm available today, I'm available tomorrow. And then I take their info and my policy is, as soon as I get two responses, I say thank you to the group and I say thank you for reaching out. I'm not available, but these two people are, and I give them their phone number and that's done.
Leah: That's a great way that you can kind of pass it off easily. You're not having to worry about collecting the mom information and then securely getting it to the LC. You don't have to touch any of that. So that's such a neat way to do it. But it also gives you the confidence to have clear boundaries. I think that's one of the things that when you have a really strong referral network that you can keep your boundaries, cause when you do have that mom that's sitting there boo-hooing on the phone, please just come help me and it would be really tempting. Your heart is breaking for her to be like, well I know I told my kids I'd take them blah blah blah, but I could run over there. Okay, I'm just going to do it. But instead you have the confidence of like I know these people, I know they're wonderful, capable, going to take beautiful care. I'm going to pass this mama who is breaking my heart off to somebody who is surely going to help her in a way that I would.
Annie: And then it comes back around. There's going to be the day where I'm like, I'll see something and it'll say Sunnyside. And I'm like, and I'm sitting around saying like, why is my calendar filled? I'm like, I can see her and then I know that that person is going to pass my name along cause we've got just this goodwill.
Leah: That's so nice.
Annie: And we have it limited. You have to be a MILKA member in good standing to be in the WhatsApp group. So they check everybody and it's only for IBCLCs doing home visits. And then what happened was if you can only imagine, we all got to chatting so, we had to create a second group because we were missing the referrals because we're all having these amazing conversations. Now we have a second group that's just for conversation. And then those of us that take Aetna have a smaller group that's only the Aetna people, and so as soon as there's an Aetna person, I take it to the smaller group and I just feel like this has really grown. And I do feel, even though there's some people on there who I've never met in person, but my clients, these people sometimes will then come back to me and they'll say, thank you so much for referring her. She was great. I really appreciate it. And that has happened more than once. I don't even have a relationship with this person who cold texted me. Oh, this was like the most beautiful thing was I had somebody write that she just was like, I just want to let you know that you weren't available and you sent me somebody else, and I just think you need to tell all of your colleagues that you people are amazing and you do great work. I was like, you just really want to give us a group hug.
Leah: I know. That's so sweet. That's so sweet. I love that model, and I think that really busy areas, you might be a little nervous to jump down the group practice rabbit hole, with all the thinking about contracts and legal and trying to figure out all that. But this is a beautiful way to still be able to collaborate, still be able to get a lot of the benefits that you get out of a group practice setting, where you can have somebody easy to cover for you. But you can also have, let me talk to you about this case with trusted friends that you know are great IBCLCs so you're like, I can go through this case, let me debrief you and help me figure out what to do next. You have that aspect of it too so I think a lot of people, if you don't quite feel like you're ready to jump into the deeper end, this is a great way to kind of wade into what it feels like to be on a deeper level of collaboration, not quite the chapter meetings, but another step forward. And then what would come after that. So if I'm ready to take another step forward, something more formal. Annie, what does that actually look like? Well, you've been on WhatsApp, you've been getting to know the other lactation consultants and you might find that you really click with somebody and maybe you've gotten together for coffee or hung out at a conference and you might be thinking, wouldn't it be nice to share some of this load with somebody else? So really the next step would be a group practice.
Leah: Like a more formal setup where there are negotiated contracts and there are very clear roles and money goes in certain directions in certain ways, like a much more formal setup. And that's what I've experienced actually through my whole career. I've never been a private practice LC by myself before, so I only have this other perspective of always having collaboration with other IBCLCs, and I can't imagine doing it any other way, although you guys have found some really great ways to make it work for you too. But I think there's a lot of benefits to having a formal group practice, especially just the workload can be reduced. It's really great to have a structure to how the workload will be divided. So that's really nice. Financially, so you're able to have some more financial benefits, especially if you're a sole proprietor and you pull in under other LCs under you, it's a way for you to maybe grow your practice and then have some financial benefit from the work that your practice is doing. So there's definitely some benefits. There's some drawbacks too. There's a lot more paperwork because you have to get a lawyer to make contracts and make sure you're doing it correctly per your state, cause there's a lot of different laws in different States on how you can interact with people that you're bringing on. Some States, it's really strict on whether you are an independent contractor or an employee and you really have to have a lawyer, and also I would say a CPA really guide you through your business structure, and then how you're going to do contracts and those kinds of things because there's definitely state to state differences and the federal government has a lot of information as well on the irs.gov website about, is this going to be an independent contractor relationship versus an employee relationship, and you really want to explore that as you're looking at how you want to set up a group practice. But there's a lot to it and that's why Annie and I had to do an entire day workshop, which I think is going to end up just really helping a lot of people understand the nuances of really getting those kind of things set up.
Annie: Well, I think the thing that kind of blew my mind as we were even just brainstorming on this and I was like, Oh, not everyone wants to be a small business owner like I do. And I like the business part of it, and I've been talking with people who say I don't want to run a business. I want someone to hire me. So that might be you. You might be out there saying like, I really want to do private practice but I'm so intimidated by the business stuff. Maybe take that somebody out to lunch and say, would you consider hiring me? I would like to work for you. What would that look like? And maybe there is somebody out there who would like to be in a group practice but didn't even really think about it. And so that's the kind of thing, those conversations can happen when you're at those events. or at a chapter meeting or working together on your referral network that then has to spawn a second conversation. I mean, you never know where those things will go, and we've just had so much fun talking with these different group practices across the country and they're all doing it a little different.
Leah: It is so fascinating to me and just speaks to the awesomeness that is the IBCLC in that we can get in there, we've got grit to figure out and figure out for your region what works for your region, what different, creative ways that you can serve certain populations or make it work with maybe confounding factors or different jobs. I mean, there's just so much. I had such a great time interviewing. One of the things we did to prep for this, we just interviewed a ton of different group practices and different models and it was just really, really neat to see all the awesome work that these IBCLCs have done to just make this work for them in these really, really unique and creative ways, and to make it work for the people they're trying to serve too. It was really, really fun and I can't wait to share more information about it.
Annie: I know we're going to have so much fun and like I said, if you think you want this to come to your area, we'd love to hear from you, and we have got other ideas too.
Leah: So many!
Annie: Talking about lactation stuff is basically our favourite thing to do.
Leah: Absolutely. And we kept trying to turn the conversations since we've been together. We'll talk about a little bit kid stuff here and there and then before we know it we're back on business and lactation. It's so funny. It's like our conversations just always head into that direction. But Annie, as we wrap up this fun conversation about group practice today, do you have a group practice tech tip for us?
Annie: I do. And so it ties back with our sponsor Acuity. So in Acuity, you can get the consent in advance. You can load it in there as the terms and conditions template. So what I recommend is if you do insurance clients and self-pay clients, have two different consents. So you know how like you might think, Oh, I'm just going to put it all in there. If you're self-pay then it's like this. If you are insurance, it works like that. Make two different ones and then make two different visit types, one's an insurance visit type and one's a self-paid visit type, and then they're only going to see what applies to them. And I just think like the less we make our clients read and comprehend and try to make sense, the better. They don't want to do it. We don't want to make them do it. So it's a really easy way to do the heavy lifting. And then with Acuity, if you're in a group practice and you have it set up for separate users' calendars, then it's going to also be tied to that practitioner. So that's the kind of granular scheduling that Acuity can do and does so well.
Leah: Yeah, it's a really robust system. We have found so many neat inner workings of it that we can use to just streamline our business and keep everything really organized. And we do every year, we do a whole report of how many visits did we see, what kinds of visits where we seeing and we compare it to years before. So we really get a sense of where we are growing, where things maybe needing more marketing in this area or that area, and what is working with marketing? What's not working? I mean, we've tried to do some analysis there so we have some thought as we go forward into the new year. And this last year, so 2018 was the first year that we had used Acuity the whole year, and it was like the heavens opened and the light shone down because it was like click, click, click. Got all my reports done, whereas before we would have to compile them month over month by hand in an Excel spreadsheet, and it was so painful and I had to hire a VA to do it for me. But this year it was so nice. It just created the report and it was so easy to look at all the numbers and everything. So that's just one more benefit of Acuity. I could go on.
Annie: Little extra tip tip there. So all right. This was super fun to do in person.
Leah: So next we'll just have to get you to come down to Houston. I don't know, probably have to be after the sticky summer is over, but I'm going to get you down to Houston and we're going to do another one, another podcast., but it's going to be Houston podcasts.
Annie: Which is actually totally going to happen.
Leah: Awesome. All right, well it was good talking to you today, Annie.
Annie: For sure.