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This is a podcast for anyone feeling stretched thin by work, activism, caregiving, or just surviving under systems that weren’t built for our thriving. On Balm in the Burnout, we speak with artists, organizers, and community builders about what’s helping us stay grounded and resourced in the face of burnout. Together, we reclaim our right to soothe, heal, and make hopeful, sustainable action.
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[00:00:00]
Megan: Welcome back. We're here at Balm in the Burnout with an old friend Patrick Otis. I'm gonna read Patrick's bio. It is the sweetest thing I've ever read and so I almost made him read it, but I'm gonna read it 'cause it's just as sweet. Patrick has been a nurse since 2013 and a nurse anesthetist since 2018.
He likes what he does, but he is also learned the importance of not letting work be his whole. Identity outside the operating room. You'll usually find Patrick on a pickleball court with dreams of going pro one day lull, singing in choir with his husband deep in a personal finance spreadsheet, or planning his next trip.
He's big on staying active physically, mentally, and emotionally, and he is passionate about [00:01:00] creating balance in a profession that doesn't always make it easy. So Patrick, we're here to just have a fun conversation today. Are you? Are you excited?
Patrick: Yeah. Sounds good. Thanks for reading my bio. I kind of forgot what I wrote.
Megan: you are welcome. I know it always could feel superficial when your bio is read. But Patrick, why don't you bring us in just telling our listeners a moment when you felt really present recently.
Patrick: Really present. So as you read I play pickleball,
Megan: Yes.
Patrick: And I am trying to get better. And so that's an activity outside of work that I'm trying to like. Care about, and so I just did a tournament last Thursday and yeah, I, as silly as it is, I didn't do sports growing up. Or I did, but I never cared, like at all.
So this is the first time I like actually care about [00:02:00] a sport and something that's active and so it's a new. A new world for me, like being competitive and caring about it and being around those people. And surprisingly, there's a lot of, mental game in it to keep yourself calm and be present and not freak out during a game.
Megan: I love this so much. I would rather have no other conversation than how pickleball can bring presence and mindfulness. Oh my gosh. Okay. So tell me, so you did sports as a younger person. What do you think changed in your, like that caring intention for you?
Patrick: Yeah, I did soccer and basketball till like eighth grade like everyone else, you know. Um, didn't like it. And then I went to a performing arts high school that didn't have sports and then, yeah, just cared [00:03:00] about music and theater and did that in college. What changed was that, like a couple years ago, some of my St.
Ola friends from college just. We were playing pickleball and I was like, wait, I actually like this and I think I could be okay. And yeah, it just, I wanted to try something new and I feel like it, activated a new part of my brain. I was like, okay, I'm learning something and something that like doesn't matter, but like matters 'cause I think it matters.
So it's like that pressure, but it's not really pressure because you're just playing a game. So it, it honestly feels like it's something I chose for myself. It's not work, it's not something for my husband or friends, it's oh, for me. And yeah, it's just completely a different world than I'm used to.
It's not the operating room, it's not theater, it's not music. It's [00:04:00] sports.
Megan: Who knew?
Patrick: Yeah. Who knew? Yeah. And honestly it's challenged me in like mentally. Like sometimes I'll get home and Jeff is okay, my husband Jeff, he's uh, rough day on the court. And he is like, how was work? And I'm like, I don't know.
Work was fine I guess, but
Megan: But let's talk about pickleball. Yeah. Oh, I love this so much. Oh, yeah. There's so much in what I'm hearing from you about that intention around picking something that's a challenge, but also it's not a life threatening challenge. It's a challenge for fun. It's a challenge for your brain. You're moving your body and doing things like novel to your body.
In this time and season of your life. Wow. So how long, I forget when you said you started, but how long have you been playing then?
Patrick: like casually for the past couple years. But last year was when I was like, okay, I'm [00:05:00] gonna try to play consistently. Also, I was like, this is gonna be my cardio. And I've made some like friends on the court. It's like a community I go to, like the same courts you see the same people, you know. So it's a way to make new friends at our age.
Which is really nice.
Megan: Very nice. Yeah. Kind of an organized event. Yeah. People I know who do pickle a ball across all age ranges really say a lot, not only about the sport, but about that social aspect too.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. So surprisingly it's helped me with my mental health to be like all. I'm gonna care about this and none of it matters, but it matters, you know?
Megan: Yes. Holding both.
Patrick: Yeah.
Megan: Speaking of mental health and wellbeing, you have a background in the medical field. You know a lot about health, but what is your own frame on health and wellbeing just for [00:06:00] you?
Patrick: Hmm. My own frame. That's a good question. I think, yeah, everything about physical, mental, emotional, trying to figure out what really works for you versus what other, like you get all the messaging about physical health and mental health.
Megan: I mean, I think you shared in our pre-planning just a little bit about, that mental health, the physical health, which you've already spoken to, as well as finding just something for you, letting.
Your entire identity not be wrapped up in one thing, but kind of being a multiplicity kind of person.
Patrick: Yeah. With nursing, it's. A lot of people in the field, it's, they kinda [00:07:00] make that their passion and it's really easy to be engulfed in that profession just 'cause you are so involved in people's lives. And that was really hard for me before, even before the pandemic, I worked in the NICU and picu, neonatal and pediatric intensive care unit, which.
It was just super sick babies and children. And I had a good support system of coworkers that we were going through like on a daily basis of treating those, that population. And yeah, it's really easy to make that be your identity. Be like, I am a nurse, I'm a savior of these neonatal sick babies.
And then once I did anesthesia, that's, I became an anesthetist in 2018 and then the pandemic happened and then it was like, that was my identity. 'cause there was literally nothing else to do of [00:08:00] working all the time. And I was the one that was putting in the breathing tubes of COVID patients. So yeah, it was pretty hard to separate. Myself from my job
Megan: Yeah, that sounds really hard, Patrick.
Patrick: yeah, it was, and everyone has their own experience of the pandemic. So I think everyone after, I don't know, 22, 23, you're kind of figuring out like What your life is like now. I, I never stopped working, so it was like, how do I detach myself from this profession, this job that I do care about and but it's not who I am.
Megan: Mm-hmm.
Patrick: So like when you go to parties, and people ask what do you do? I try not to ask that or I try not. I don't know. Because we're more than our professions. And that's more, I think I'm more sensitive to [00:09:00] that because of the pandemic,
Megan: so true. Yeah. I love. Asking the question, how do you spend your time,
Patrick: Yeah.
Megan: As a mom and with people who, have had to stop working for medical reasons or caregiving, it's like, I kind of wanna know who you are as a person and how you spend your time speaks to some of that. Yeah. And you've, spoken to a little bit of the burnout possibility during the pandemic, for you or people in the field, like how has that, what does burnout look like now in 2025?
Patrick: Well, I am fortunate in that I. I was an employee of a hospital nearby and I'm still casually picking up there, but every hospital need needs like more [00:10:00] anesthesia, work and employees. So I was kind of an independent contractor for about two to three years, just bopping around. And so I was just creating my own schedule, which helped a lot with burnout 'cause I was, I was in control of my schedule. But then eventually I was like, but I don't know anyone I work with because I kept changing hospitals different. I worked with different nurses, different doctors, different everything every day.
And then eventually I was like, I need something more consistent. I need consistent relationships in my job.
Which, you know, took a, took some time to figure out that I actually cared about that. And then I took a full-time job at a pain clinic nearby, which is procedures and surgeries for chronic pain patients like stimulators and pain pumps. Pretty straightforward surgeries and [00:11:00] generally healthy patients versus the hospital.
So no weekends, no holidays four days a week. I still pick up casually at the hospital I was at. And so it's I still get to control my schedule a little bit. So burnout these days is when I plan too much after work. 'Cause right now I am, I'm done at around three or four and I love having an afternoon.
I feel like in an evening I feel like I still have a life. Before the hospital, I was working 12, 16, 24 hour shifts and I would have time off, those days I was just kind of recovering.
Megan: Yep.
Patrick: So now I'm like, okay, eight, eight hours. I still have a day and I still, then I get to do stuff that I actually care about and like, but fortunately I also, at this job, I like everyone I work [00:12:00] with as well.
Which helps a lot.
Megan: Yeah, figuring out that puzzle piece sounds like it was important.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Megan: find a direction of what's new or what's next, like a deeper layer with that workplace belonging, if you will,
Patrick: yeah, no, that's a huge piece. I felt like I didn't belong anywhere when I was a contractor because I was just bopping in and out. Every day was a different place. Which, you know, some people like that. And I did like it for a little bit, but it wasn't sustainable for my mental health.
Megan: Yeah. And it seems too based on your field or your niche area, you do have more flexibility. There's a greater need for your kind of workers. So there was something else where you could.
Go into that and reduce those hours from those shifts to something shorter. You know, I think of the doctors and the surgeons and the, you know, the people that just, that's not their gonna be [00:13:00] their schedule.
And that's super hard reality.
Patrick: Yep. Yeah. I feel very fortunate that I found this niche part of my job.
Megan: Yep. Yep. Yeah, I think it reminds me that, if you wanna use your credentials in healthcare and still do something meaningful, thinking about what those pieces of that environment would look like, visioning that out with someone. Gosh, I do that. A lot of my health coaching, you know what I mean?
Just like a lot of people who are revisioning, like what needs to go and what needs to stay.
Getting a good sense of the elements that are life giving and the elements that are really hard.
Patrick: yeah,
Megan: Yeah.
Patrick: yeah. This job like just gives a lot of balance to my life,
Megan: yeah. I'm hearing it. Pickleball music, are you still doing some like music and theater [00:14:00] things?
Patrick: Yeah. So Jeff, my husband, we have been in choir for the past two years. Uh, just a community choir, like no audition, very chill. For the season is from October till May. And it's like 70 people. And we've made some good friends that, we see outside of choir. We sing like contemporary music, not like traditional choral music, but like we sang Pink Pony Club this past season and like Tina Turner and yeah.
So it's just fun and we, I think we sound genuinely good. And again, it's like that part of my brain that I haven't done like before. The two years ago, I hadn't done choir since school, since college, so literally a decade. Just like looking at the music, I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, I used to do this all the time.
Megan: Yeah.
Patrick: Yeah, and it's something really, [00:15:00] it's really fun to do with Jeff too.
Yeah, so that was like every Monday night, the season's over, so now I have Monday nights again. Yeah. Singing, playing, pickleball. Being in the operating room. That's my life.
Megan: It is. I know when we were chatting about what you wanna talk about, what seems important to our listeners, you also mentioned the idea of reaching a goal, but still moving the goal post and how you can stop that. So I'd love to hear more your thoughts on that.
Patrick: Yeah. So an example of that is. I graduated in 2018 being a nurse anesthetist, and then we got married, bought a house, then we moved to a bigger house. And now I'm like, like I said earlier, there's a need for anesthesia all over the city. [00:16:00] You can work as much as you can and make as much as you want, and so it's hard.
To be like, okay, I can make this much and we can go on, spend this much and go on vacation and do whatever. But, and I did do that for a while and got really burnt out because of just like working a lot. Then I had to take a step back and be like, okay, but why am I doing this? What is the goal? And I sat in my bio, I like, I. Care about finances and spreadsheets. And so during COVID, I was like, how do we get out of our jobs?
Megan: Yep.
Patrick: And I was, the answer was, okay, financial independence, how do we do that? How much do we save and invest? And so I just became obsessed with like numbers and spreadsheets and. Then you hit a goal and you're like, alright, how long will it take to hit this goal?
[00:17:00] And then at then it's but why are you hitting that goal? And at first I was obsessed with retiring early, and then I was like, but now I have a nice job that I like and I can spend my free time the way I want to.
What is the purpose of, the next step? And for me, it's really easy to just do the next step, which is like save this much for, so we don't have to work as much, but I've come to the realization that, okay, but I'm lucky enough that I have a good job.
I can spend my free time the way I want, and. I can take a step back and not work as much. So that's where I'm at currently in 2025, is stop working, enjoy your [00:18:00] life. 'cause I do sometimes feel like I spend my free time like a retiree.
Megan: It, I mean, pickleball choir.
Patrick: Yeah.
Megan: Yep.
Patrick: People in health, like any field really, you see those people who are working till their seventies and I definitely don't want to do that.
And, but I do wanna figure out if I didn't need to work, what would I do?
So yeah, that's what I mean about the goalpost.
Megan: Such good musings and questions. I, yeah, especially as like now kind of mid-career people, thinking about those milestones, when are they gonna come? What are we working for?
Patrick: Yeah.
Megan: I've talked to several people who, are doing the really extreme like fire lifestyle where they're
Patrick: Yeah, exactly.
Megan: yeah.
And I don't know. It's interesting. Everyone finds their own path, but you do just confront your values over and over, what if we [00:19:00] wanted to do something this year, and then it's okay, am I, should I be saving for this unknown period of time or should I be, spending the money while I have it?
It's
Patrick: Yeah.
Megan: very existential.
Patrick: Totally. And that's kind of what the fire movement is to me right now, where it's is there gonna be a future?
Megan: I know. Literally.
Patrick: So like finding the balance of that where it's let's save and invest, but like let's enjoy our life right now because you just never know in terms of the world. But also COVID ha made us like question that as well.
Yeah, it's, Jeff is more definitely not a numbers guy, so he is, he we're a good team where it's some where he is like, can we do this and not have to live on rights and beings? We're definitely not like that, but.
Megan: [00:20:00] Yeah. Finding the balance that works with you and taking in ideas from other people, but also being true and present with what each of you wants.
Yeah. Just a really good. Topic. Thanks for bringing it
Patrick: Yeah, I think.
Megan: we don't often talk enough as mid-career people about what's next?
How to get there, what's stopping us? All of that.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's like you said, we're in our career where, you could work a ton and keep doing that, getting to that next level, but you figure out like why you're going to that next level.
Megan: Yes.
Patrick: And is it worth it?
Megan: Yeah, the deep why and yeah, some of that reflection work I do with my clients is so [00:21:00] important, right around like, hey, this is, some of the sacrifices or the consequences of your actions. Now, it sounds like you also have this pull to do something else. So kind of that contemplation mode of where even do you go and when and why.
But yeah, it sounds like there's a lot. Just like everyone, you have families, you have caregiving responsibilities that pop up. You know, it's just finding the balance that works for you and not feeling pressure of the shoulds from society or other kinds of coworkers and things like that.
I'm in a field where most of us are contractors are self-employed, so it's like, who knows when we'll retire, right? But I found the work that I doesn't feel like work. I could do it. As long as I want. And and you found this balance in the job you have, right? You getting to do all these things you enjoy and do the work that you're credentialed to [00:22:00] do.
Patrick: Yep. I mean, speaking of the fire movement, there's that story of, I'm gonna butcher this story, but it's like of the three brothers where one works super hard and they retire early. But then they don't really know what to do with their life. And then there's one that like never cared about their future and has to work like forever.
But one who like, you know, saved, invested. And then by the time they got to retirement age, they're like, you know what, I'm gonna keep doing this 'cause I like it and would keep doing it. So I'm like, I kind of wanna be that guy, that brother.
Megan: That's, yeah. Honestly, that's what my dad's doing right now. He just loves what he is doing and he's in a place where they're like, you can stay or you can go, just tell us what you wanna do. Tell us what hours you wanna work, you know? And he didn't find the field he wanted to be in until he was in his fifties but he's in his seventies [00:23:00] now and still rocking it,
Patrick: yeah. And there's definitely, again, like there are people in their seventies who are working like I. 80 hours a week, but there are, people are like, I'm gonna do this like, like a couple days a week. I think I'd want to do that.
Megan: Yeah. Really finding like the purpose beneath, just like the job title.
Patrick: Yeah, exactly.
Megan: So good. Well we're kind of rounding out close to our 30 minutes already, but this conversation has been so good.
Patrick: Good.
Megan: I'm curious you're operating differently than you were in 2020. How are you noticing your colleagues do the same, but like for their own better health and wellbeing too?
Patrick: Gosh. Yeah, in 2020 I was working at the hospital and. Those colleagues are still at the hospital and every time I go there and I pick up there like every other week. It's the [00:24:00] same people kind of complain about the same things. And there are changes in my field in surgery in general where there. This is another conversation of like health administrators taking over healthcare and they're opening up all these buildings and surgery centers without the staff. And so it's really it's definitely burning out a lot of my coworkers because. Now they're asked to staff the hospital, but also these surgery centers.
And like I said earlier, it's, if you wanna make money, it's very easy. You can just pick up all these shifts and go to these surgery centers. So I do see a lot of my colleagues just working a lot and not [00:25:00] sure if they're doing anything else outside of work. Yeah, and I, I did do that. I was like, I'm sure the work is there.
I'm young, but now I'm like, I'm still young, but I kind of want to enjoy my youth. Yeah, so the not sure how they're kind of handling it and the managers and administrators are. Adding more just like paperwork and charting, that's not really patient care. Additional work to our actual job. So in addition to opening up all these centers.
Megan: Yeah. Gosh, it's been many years. Not many, five, six years since I was working in academic medicine, and it sounds like the same problems, you know?
Patrick: And
Megan: Top down decisions burnt out [00:26:00] employees, increased administrative burden, and just trying to find your way through that.
Patrick: it definitely makes you feel powerless. When you're there, you're just like, I have no control. And yeah. Which makes me feel fortunate again of where I currently work. 'cause it's such a small place, small facility. So it's I do feel like we have a say in how this company goes.
Megan: I'm glad you landed in a place that, it sounds like the decision making happens on more than one level.
There's balance in your schedule and. Yeah, even like less complex patients, so it's more of that outpatient feel.
Patrick: Yep. Absolutely.
Megan: Yeah. Why don't you share one small way that you reduce your risk of burnout?
Patrick: one small way is to find [00:27:00] something outside of work that you like and care about and find community outside of work. I feel like I have a community in choir. I have my pickleball community. And something that's just for you.
Megan: Such good advice. Yes. I feel so biased 'cause it's like we met in musical theater at St. Olaf,
Patrick: yeah.
Megan: I just like resonates so much with everything you're saying, but I'm like, yes, I
Patrick: yeah. Are you doing music right now or
Megan: yeah, I've been in a choir for a few years too.
Patrick: which one?
Megan: See Change Treble Choir. Shout out. See Changers. Woo. What's the name of your choir?
Patrick: Kith and Kin.
Megan: Oh yes, I have heard of them.
Patrick: Yeah. So chill. No audition.
Megan: I love that.
Patrick: Yeah. And
Megan: the contemporary music and yeah,
Patrick: Yeah.
Megan: relaxed vibe.
Patrick: Exactly.[00:28:00]
Megan: So good. So find a community and hey, if you wanna sing, there's really lots of good choirs here in the Twin Cities, obviously. What is one takeaway you'd hope our listeners would have today?
Patrick: Yeah. Oh gosh. One takeaway um, don't work so hard.
Megan: Yes.
Patrick: Have fun. Like honestly, though,
Megan: Uhhuh.
Patrick: I think I mean obviously it was a pandemic, but I don't think I was having fun.
And that's another thing with my current job, I feel like I, I really like the people I work with and it's. Just fun to go to work sometimes and find what you like in a, [00:29:00] like the type of environment you want in a job.
'cause it took me, a few years to be like, oh, I actually wanna work with kind of the same people. Like versus going to various places. Who knew that if you like working with the same group of people that know you and you know them can really impact your day-to-day life.
Megan: For sure. Good takeaway to just have fun, find your people,
Patrick: Exactly.
Megan: be kind.
Well, I'm so grateful for our conversation. Started with pickleball, ended with having fun. So it's I can't say that I have a favorite because I love everyone that I've interviewed, but this was truly a joy.
Patrick: Aw. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Megan: Yeah, and we're gonna share your Instagram handle if people wanna follow you find your pickleball league or whatever is. So, P faunillian, [00:30:00] P-F-A-U-N-I-L-L-A-N is Patrick's Instagram handle. And we'll link to it in the show notes.
Patrick: Perfect.
Megan: Oh, thanks again. Appreciate you so much
Patrick: Thanks for having me.
Megan: You bet.