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This is The Parent Perspective, a podcast hosted by BBC presenter Rachel Burden, and created to help parents and carers support their children in making more informed career decisions with greater confidence, knowledge and understanding.
In each episode we will share your experiences of navigating career conversations with your children and provide insights into how the world of work is changing from trusted experts, organisations and employers already working with young people today.
It’s time for your perspective to count!
RACH: Welcome to The Parent Perspective, brought to you by Amazing Apprenticeships and Not Going to Uni. This is your one -stop pod for everything that you as parents and carers need to know about what the options are for your child as they leave full -time education. From apprenticeships to T -levels to all things skills, we've got it covered here. And today, a special for National Apprenticeships Week, we've been given time with the Apprenticeship Skills Minister
Robert Halfon to catch up on what progress has been made in expanding opportunities in apprenticeships and what we can expect in the next few months. Last time you joined us at this time in 2023, you were fairly recently appointed back into the role. You've had well over a year of it now. You've got your feet firmly under the desk for the moment anyway. How has the last year been and what progress do you think has been made?
ROB: Yeah, well, thank you. It's been an incredible year. But I'm very proud to be doing the job. It's the job, the only job I wanted in government. I was previously chair of the Education Select Committee. Apprenticeship skills in universities is a wonderful privilege to do. And it has been a whirlwind year. We've done a huge amount of on apprenticeships this year. Everything from, you know, everyone who knows me knows I go on about the ladder of opportunity, but has a real detailed policy to each rung. And the top of that run is job security and prosperity. We've done a huge amount of work on careers to try and ensure that more schools are encouraging careers and apprenticeship organisations to go in. We have done a lot of work on social justice. We've just started a mentoring scheme for disabled apprenticeships. We've increased the care leaver's bursary from £1 ,000 to £3 ,000. We've boosted degree apprenticeships to £40 million. It was previously £8 million. and we've got a lot of work to do, but we're removing red tape and regulation from small businesses. We've removed the cap on the number of apprentices that small businesses can hire, so they can have the apprentices that they need. We've introduced flexibilities to the apprenticeship levy, so 25 % of their levy can be used to fund smaller businesses. So we've done a huge amount. There's a lot more. Now, we've done a lot of work on our T -level program, which I'm very proud of as well, and our higher technical qualifications. We've opened 12 Institutes of Technology, 21 in total, which are going to revolutionise tertiary education. I've travelled thousands of miles all over the country to visit apprentices, FE colleges. I want to do a lot more in the weeks and weeks and months ahead. All of which sounds exciting. It sounds very ambitious. But I want to go back to a couple of commitments you made on this podcast a year ago, and see how your ambitions sort of measure up with what's actually happened. So there were two things, two priorities that you set out. One was to increase apprenticeship starts, and one was to improve completion rates. So on apprenticeship starts, can you tell us how you're getting on? Yeah, I'm very happy that you've asked that question, because I have some good news for you. Compared to this time last year, apprenticeship starts dropped by 7 % and up by young people under 19, I think it's around 11%, which I'm really delighted with. And apprenticeship achievements is perhaps the more important indicator, because we've had a huge focus on quality over quantity, so to improving the apprenticeship standards, because they're all employer designed with the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education. So apprentice achievements are up by 22%. So that is some good news. We've increased the number of apprentices from ethnic minorities have gone up from 10 to 15%. We've increased the number of apprentices with disabilities or special needs, that's gone up by a similar amount. Believe me, there's a long way to go. And I am not resting. I am more, I want focus more on achievements. We have a target of 67 % achievement rate. Because I think that is the crucial thing, because we know that over 90 % of apprentices who complete will, I think it's something like 92%, in fact, get good skilled jobs in the companies that have employed them. So how close, sorry, just to clarify, how close are you to that 67 % target? Well, we've got a while to go. We're over 50%. We've got a long way to go. But as I mentioned, the absolutely crucial point is that apprenticeship achievements have gone up by 22%. And we're working really hard to try and make it easier for employers. The good news also is that Apprenticeship Satisfaction Survey apprentices and employers are well over 80 % in terms of how they view their apprenticeship. And we're doing a lot of work, as I say, to remove red tape, to make it easier for apprentices to make sure they have more support. We're working with providers, we give £1 ,000 to providers, £1 ,000 to employers every time they have an apprentice. We've introduced flexibilities to the levy, for example, so we're doing a lot of work to try and improve that.
RACH: There's masses to pick up on there. But actually, I just want to go to Anna Morrison from Amazing Apprenticeships, who's also with us, because she will be more familiar with those numbers than anyone else. So Anna, what the Minister is saying, does that stack up for you?
ANNA: Yeah, it's always really interesting to look at the data. At this point in the year, we see early performance data coming through, and we always know that first quarter of apprenticeship activity is where we see a lot of our starts and achievements coming through. So it's really positive news, isn't it, that everything is on the upward trajectory, and also some of other points that Robert picked up on around some of the work that's been happening in the careers space. The conversations that we are now having with schools, with parents, with young people about apprenticeships, awareness is so much higher than it ever was before. We've now got a bit of a job of just turning that awareness into real starts and making sure that people know how to connect in with the vacancies and the opportunities that are out there. But it does feel incredibly positive out there, I would agree.
RACH: And where are the most challenging areas in terms of encouraging those apprenticeship starts? Why is it proving to be a bit sticky that number? Anna, do you want to give us your thoughts? And then we'll come to Robert if that's okay.
ANNA: I suppose translating apprenticeship interest into starts is a lot more complicated than starting a full -time programme. So if we compare it for young people particularly, if we think about you know the route to applying to university or college and there's often one system, one deadline, you know it's a well -trodden path, people know exactly what to expect and what they need to do. With apprenticeships being real jobs it's very different and so although we do have systems out there that kind of are providing some of that kind of formality to the application process like find an apprenticeship and some of the pilot work that we're supporting UCAS and the DfE with on Early Connect. It's still quite complex because employers will still recruit in the way that they want to recruit for their business and they will recruit when they need those apprenticeship starts. So it's throughout the year and that's really different around apprenticeships than it is for some of those other post -16, post -18 that people are looking at. So we spend a lot of time now talking to people about how to search and how to apply for apprenticeships and how to navigate that recruitment process.
RACH: Yeah, Robert, let's bring you in on that then. Is this really just about, again, sort of education? Is it about structural reform that's needed within the system to allow young people to access these start points at different times of the year?
ROB: So I think it's really important because there are a number of huge number of things that we have to do. One there has to be a massive cultural change and that is happening but it's a long way to go. So if you give the example of Switzerland I think 70 % of students go on to do vocational education or apprenticeships and other countries previously have done much better in Germany, Austria on this than us previously. So we're doing a huge amount of work on careers and we have this we spend something like over three million pounds on this Apprenticeship Skills Knowledge Network to go around schools. We've strengthened the legislation to try and ensure that schools invite apprenticeship organisations in and technical organisations. It's called the Baker Clause, named after Ken Baker. We've, in fact, only yesterday had a meeting with the new Ofsted chief to try and persuade him to do more on making sure that schools encourage apprenticeships. It is included nowadays in the measurements, but I think it needs to be tougher. We've just launched an incredible, and if you haven't seen it, it's an incredible advert called Skills for Life with a Skills for Life website that any young person can access and get the opportunities that they want and understand whether it's apprenticeships, T -levels or higher technical qualifications or adult learning. I always wanted something to have emotional appeal as well as to explain what skills and apprenticeship can offer. Then we've done a lot of work to try and reduce red tape for small businesses. We've got financial incentives. So if you're a small business and you have a young person from 16 to 19, you don't have to pay any of the training costs. We pay 95 % of the training costs for every other small business. We've introduced the levy flexibility. So a big business can use 25 % of their levy to fund small businesses to hire apprentices. businesses. We're trying to support providers as much as possible and reduce regulation and red tape, particularly for small businesses, to reduce the burden that they have in hiring an apprentice and trying to help them with all the tax work they have to do with the Inland Revenue. So at every stage, we're trying to make it as easy as possible and incentivise small businesses to have apprentices as well as big business, but also transform the cultural landscape by changing our careers, advice and support.
RACH: It's worth saying, your government has come in for some criticism for the fact that SME apprenticeship starts are down quite significantly since 2016. So you'll acknowledge that there's quite a bit of work to be done in that respect, and maybe the apprenticeship levy has favoured big business.
ROB: Absolutely. This is why I say I'm not resting on my laurels. You know, we've got some good increase in starts and other good things have happened. But we've had, obviously, we've had COVID and there was sort of difficulties with the economy, big economic challenges that often affect small businesses. So inevitably, that's going to have had an effect. The other thing we've done as well, we transform apprenticeship qualifications since 2010. And pre -2010, apprenticeships were often focused around the traditional crafts, not solely, and the qualifications are quite mixed. We now have employer -led qualifications. So they design the qualifications with the new Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education. So they are harder. We've got over 690 apprenticeship standards in everything from legal to media to nursing to policing. But they are harder. And what I want is a focus on quality. And I think your most important question you ask is not just about the start earlier, it's the achievement rate, because I want people to do quality apprenticeships, to be happy in their apprenticeship, to be supported by the employer, but to complete those apprenticeships. We're doing a huge amount of work with small businesses and all the things I mentioned a moment ago to try and do everything possible to encourage their take up of apprenticeships. But you're right to raise it and we're working hard on it.
RACH: Last time we spoke a lot about degree apprenticeships and they are still the big shiny thing in the apprenticeship world. There is a lot of interest, a lot of parents, carers, see them potentially as a sort of higher form of apprenticeship, possibly, because of the kudos it brings with that extra qualification. But consequently, there is a lot of demand for those spaces as well. Do you think we have a supply and demand issue with degree apprenticeships in particular? And how do we address that?
ROB: Well, you might remember, I think I said to you, but if I didn't, I definitely said it before, that degree apprenticeships are my two favourite words in the English language. And the reason for that is I think they answer so many problems. They answer the social justice problem, because you don't have to take out a loan, and you get paid, and you get a job at the end. They answer our skills needs, because they're often focused in areas where we have real skills needs, like, for example, our new doctor's apprenticeships, nursing apprenticeships, policing apprenticeships. And they, of course, help provide prestige to apprenticeships in a way that people didn't necessarily understand in the past. Because often families, if I think of my own family, my father was an immigrant here. His view was, you're going to university, you're going to work hard day and night. I've had to work hard day and night. And you are going to go to university. And they didn't necessarily, my father wouldn't have understood what an apprenticeship was, I think. And I've met many families like that, to be fair, with exactly the same attitude as my family, because obviously university is a very aspirational place to go. And interestingly, I've often seen that from the most disadvantaged families, by the way, which is interesting. And so what a degree apprenticeship does, it changes the prestige of that, and shows that you can get some of the university experience, but you get a good apprenticeship and a good job. So we're doing a lot of work to, again, then try and cut down the regulation, but also financial incentives. So when I got in, it was about £8 million we were giving to universities to promote degree apprenticeships. We've increased that to £40 million. And that is to encourage degree apprenticeships. I've written to universities, I visit universities all over the country, especially those ones that offer degree apprenticeships, and I'll be doing some of that again in National Apprenticeship week, next week. And we've had over something like 200 ,000, I think, now, degree apprenticeships in 2014. So I think that I would like even more of them. My personal view, not a government view, as my dream is that 50 % of students will go and do a degree apprenticeship who want the university experience. But the way to increase that is we've got to remove further red tape. We've got to incentivise, continue to incentivise both the provider, the HE organisation, and also, of course, the businesses to offer them. And that's what we're doing.
RACH: Yeah. And I wonder if you could update us, has there been any progress on working with UCAS to bring together a more streamlined way?
ROB: Sorry, how could I not mention that? How could I not have even mentioned that in your previous question. Thank you so much for bringing that up. So in November, I got in this post in November 2023, and I met with the then head of UCAS, who now is gone. And I said, my dream was that UCAS would be called the University College and Apprenticeship Skills Service. And what she said, and we wanted her to do, was to do a proper UCAS Apprenticeship Service. service. And it's done. And I saw the early version of it last summer when I went to go there for the results day, focusing on the vocational results. And UCAS is a bit like going to the Pentagon with all the computers they have up on screens everywhere, and the data, the real -time data. And the UCAS for Apprenticeship is now live. It's going to transform everything, because the problem in the past was when students were working with their teachers and careers advisors at school, all they saw was UCAS for universities. And now, at the same time, they've got UCAS for apprenticeships, plus our new Skills for Life website as well, which has huge amounts of offerings on them and links and everything they could possibly want. So that is really good news, really good news. And it will take time to bed in, but it's going to be transformative.
RACH: Yeah, I was just going to say, Anna, this could be a game changer. But there are challenges, aren't there? We're trying to streamline university application and the needs of employers putting forward degree apprenticeships.
ANNA: Yes, absolutely. It's not going to be without its challenges. And it's great, isn't it, that UCAS are coming on board with it and promoting opportunities around apprenticeships on their website, which is excellent. We're very close to this pilot as an organisation. We're supporting the DfE, the Department for Education with this and working with teachers on the CPD. And for me, and you know I was one of those young people that didn't want to go to university, I wouldn't have gone on the UCAS website, we've got lots and lots of families and young people and individuals who need the other levels of apprenticeships and Robert will be well used to me talking about this and you know we need all levels don't we so that people of all different stages and ages can access opportunity through apprenticeships. So whilst I do agree that you know getting degree apprenticeships in the volumes that we're now seeing is really transformative for the conversations we're having with parents and carers and with young people and with employers as well, a lot of career paths still need to be really endorsed so we really need to help parents to realise that if their child starts on a level two or a level three apprenticeship or a higher apprenticeship it's a stepping stone towards potentially a degree apprenticeship later in their career and it's not a backward step and it's not something to be embarrassed of and it's not a lesser option than a degree apprenticeship and my my concern is that families will kind of pick up what's in the media and think oh my child needs to do a degree apprenticeship because that's the best one. Whereas actually we've got thousands of organisations across the country who offer apprenticeships at different levels which are crucial for learning some of those skills to be able to then progress your career. As an organisation we've got an apprentice on a level three content creator apprenticeship at the moment. The level that she's working at, the role that we've got in our business isn't suitable for a degree apprenticeship. I'm not saying it wouldn't be in the future, but the starting point for us needs to be that advanced apprenticeship, the level three, and I don't think that's anything to be ashamed about or worried about, you know, kind of, as long as we're getting individuals into good jobs with employers who are investing in their skills and the development, that's brilliant. So I think that's my plea, is for families when they're looking at apprenticeships and considering the options for their child, not to just be thinking about degree apprenticeships, but really trying to explore and understand the different pathways employers might be putting in to help to build that career and the progression opportunity.
RACH: The other thing families will always be thinking about, particularly at the moment, is the financial pressures and how you manage that and the affordability of applying through the apprenticeship route. Robert, do you just want to bring us up to speed on what's been happening in that space? I know you talked about the care leaver bursary, which is a really important move going up to £3 ,000 and an increase in the national minimum wage for apprentices as well?
ROB: Yes, so we've significantly increased the apprenticeship wage over the past two years. We want to try and ensure that apprentices can afford to do their apprenticeship and we give £1 ,000 to the provider, £1 ,000 to a business, small business, every time they hire an apprentice which they can use to help apprentices, it may be with bus fares or whatever it may be. So we're trying to support them. The crucial thing is they earn while they learn. The point that just was made about different levels is very important. I mean, 70 % of apprenticeships are still in level 2s and level 3s. So that, you know, I absolutely want everybody to do and we encourage everybody to do all apprenticeships. What I want to do is try and also encourage progression. So if someone does a Level 2, they do a Level 3, and a Level 3, Level 4, and so on and so forth. So the focus isn't just on degree apprenticeships, but it is a passion of mine, but for the reasons that I stated earlier.
RACH: One of the other things we raised last year with you was child benefit and the fact that families lose their child benefit if their child goes into an apprenticeship. Now at the time, you acknowledged that there were financial pressures on the government, so there were difficult decisions to be made about where taxpayers' money is spent. But you did say you would go and look at this. I just wondered if any progress had been made on that.
ROB: Well, I have to be, you know, that is a huge financial commitment. And with the financial constraints that we have, we're not able to do that at the moment. You know, we'll always keep these issues under review. But, you know, I have to have a limited amount of money, I have to deal with the world as it is, as well as the world that I'd like it to be. and I'm trying to do everything possible to support apprentices. As I mentioned, we've had that significant increase in the minimum wage, for example, for the apprentice. I'm trying to get funding and increase funding for the most disadvantaged apprentices, but I don't yet have that commitment for you.
RACH: Okay, Anna, you still feel this is quite an important obstacle for disadvantaged families, don't you?
ANNA: I do. Yeah, I do. And it's something we really want to look at. so we've joined up with some research bodies actually to get some research commissioned in this space so that we can really get into the detail of you know how much the child benefit issue is affecting families and affecting their decision to support the take up of apprenticeships so Robert it'd be great to link in with your team so once we've got that research complete and and to be able to present it. For me I'd like to remove if there's anything that is a barrier to uptake that could be looked at, then I'd like to explore it. And child benefit is one of those remaining areas that I still feel we need to bring back to the table.
RACH: Well, hopefully there will be an opportunity for the two of you to get together and talk about that in the future. If I can just ask about the Prime Minister's announcement, I think it was in October last year, about the Advanced British Standard, likely to be introduced in about 10 years' time. So this is way down the road. But I'm curious to know how that will work and how that will fit into the bigger picture, the long term view of apprenticeships place in a child's development and career progression.
ROB: I've always been a, you know, I think if you go back to the early discussion that we had, one of the problems has always been, is that academic education has always been seen as more prestigious as those doing technical and vocational education. And I've always felt this was wrong. And this goes back to the problems we have had for some time in terms of encouraging schools to get more pupils to apprentices in the way that apprenticeships were seen in society. So all the work we've done has been to improve the quality and prestige of vocational and technical education, whether it's the apprenticeship standards, which I mentioned that T levels are new high technical qualifications as well. And that is really important. The other problem, of course, is there's been a separation between those who are doing academic education and those who are doing technical and vocational. And what the purpose of the Advanced British Standard is to marry the two disciplines together. Doing vocational and technical education, you'll still be able to predominantly focus on T -levels, they'll be the backbone of the ABS. You'll still be able to do predominantly focus on A -levels, but you can mix and match as well in a way that is not quite possible nowadays. And I think that will be a good thing. I think it will promote the prestige of technical vocation. We won't have this artificial divide that we have had for such for such a long time. So I think that the ABS will really take a time to bed in, but I think it will change things for the better and will mean that more and more schools will be able to offer technical and vocational education. The other thing that it accompanies everyone will have to do maths and English to 18. Now that doesn't mean learning equations to 18. There'll be different kind of maths for different students depending on their needs, whether it's day -to -day numeracy in terms of working out bills and budgets, but also the core maths and A -level maths for those who need it and want it. But I think it's really important. I mean, here's a confession. I struggled with maths all my life. I have dyscalculus. There was only one year of my life that I really understood it. I did get O -level, what was O -level at that time before GCSE. It took me, I had to retake, it took me so many months to retake and get a C. But then I was allowed never to do maths. That is crazy. I should have had to do even the most basic maths and numeracy courses, even in my view, not just at 18, but at university. And that is what this is about. Because if you're innumerate, we have 9 million innumerate and illiterate adults, roughly, in the UK, and 9 million adults have problems with literacy and numeracy. It's probably a better way of saying it. That is a problem. And we need to try and improve that. So that is what the ABS is about to widen the curriculum to ensure there is more vocational and technical education uptake to boost the prestige vocational technical education and ensure that people have maths and English to 18.
RACH: Although I bet 16 year old Robert was absolutely delighted not to have to do maths again, to be fair.
ROB: No, you've got it. You've got it. I was over the moon. It was like greatest day of my life. And but it's wrong. Because even to this day, I can do my time tables just about but I'm not going to take a test because I don't embarrass myself just in case. But even then, that was wrong. Because if I'd have had it, even if it was the most basic maths teaching, it would have benefited me because you need the factors you need numbers in in every part of your life, whether it's going to the shops to buy in the supermarket, or whatever it may be, or whether it's looking at a bill at home and numbers are everywhere. And so I think it is incredibly important.
RACH: Before we let you go, we have to be realistic as well. There will be a general election this year. One of the frustrations I imagine working in government is that you put plans in place and they can be quickly swept away by either a new minister or a new government entirely. I just wonder whether there's ever any kind of coordination between you and your successor, that might be someone within your own party, or maybe it's a different party, to try and ensure that there is some continuity of these kinds of policies for the good of the young people affected?
ROB: Well, I get on well with the opposition, and obviously I'm hopeful that my party will win the election, but I get on well with them. I've talked to them when we've done big things like the ABS, or we've introduced something that's also going to be revolutionary called the Lifelong Learning Entitlement, which will allow adults to retrain and all through their lives but yes absolutely I think there's more of a consensus sometimes than when you see it in the bear pit of the Commons it's more of a consensus than you would think but inevitably people have different views but I know as long as I'm around I've been passionate about this is my first ever speech in the House of Commons was about apprenticeship skills in 2010 I've made it's been my political life to my apprenticeships and skills. So everything I do as a, whether it's as a minister or otherwise, will be, you know, hopefully for much of my life, adult life, will be to continue on the path that I've set down, which is building an apprenticeship in Skills Nation and ensuring that everyone can climb the skills ladder of opportunity. Well last year I know you were going on a tour of the country for Apprenticeship Week. What are your plans this time? Yeah, so last year I did over 800 miles. I think that's Song of Proclaimers. I didn't quite walk 800 miles. So I did North, West, North, Midlands and South. This year I'm starting in Cornwall on Sunday evening, going to Exeter, then Bristol, I think then Swindon or Reading, is that right? And then Ipswich and then Harlow back to my constituency. So literally from west to east, many hundreds of miles. Every day I'll be visiting apprentices, independent training providers, FE colleges, businesses. And I love doing it, it's my favourite part of the year, because you learn much more by meeting, going out and about, although I do go out and about almost every Thursday, but you learn more than all the ministerial red box papers, and that's no offence to my wonderful colleagues. But when you speak to people, you really get to know what's going on, and when you see it on the ground.
RACH: Yeah, well, absolutely, I have to applaud you for that, because I feel often the west, the far west and the far east in England get slightly forgotten about. So I'm sure you will have a fascinating trip and thank you once again, Robert Halfon, for talking to us on the parent perspective. So Anna, really interesting to hear from the Minister once again. There's no doubt about his commitment. I guess from your point of view, does it stack up in terms of the action that's been taken?
ANNA: Yeah, I think I always say I think we're lucky to have Rob Halfon as our Apprenticeships Minister because he's worked in this space for such a long time. And he does really get it. And we've seen a lot of initiatives come out over the last year since he's been in position as the Minister to really try and tackle some of the challenges that we've got in apprenticeships. And he listed off lots of them, didn't he, in the podcast, and it'd be great to have another conversation with him to get into some of that in a bit more detail. But he is really proactive, his team and him, you know, they're achieving a lot, they're doing a lot. There's always more we'd like to see, isn't there? There's obviously the child benefit thing I'm not going to let go, so we will keep coming back to that. I'd love to see some more around encouraging small businesses to take up apprentices and, you know, really use apprenticeships and create more opportunities for young people to get that stepping stone into the workplace. I know the Minister talked about the incentives that businesses can access, but £1 ,000 pounds in the cost of everything at the moment is almost a drop in the ocean. We need to I think we need something a bit more ambitious in that space, which I would love to see. And, and I think still think we've got a lot more work to do on this balancing of the different levels and opportunities and ambitions around progression to degree apprenticeships, which as we talked through today, you know, I absolutely back that. And I think it's great to have that ambition, but the realistic starting point for so many young people, and adults actually, is not a degree of apprenticeship, it's a lower level. So doing much more to really kind of amplify and celebrate those routes as being fantastic and something that we should be really proud of. But you know, there's a lot of good work happening in this space, it's going to be a fascinating year for apprenticeships and the education sector.
RACH: Absolutely, and you've made so much progress. I guess, well it wasn't quite elephant in the room, because we did acknowledge it, is that we could see a change of government this year. And from your perspective, what you don't want to see is all the good work of the progress being unpicked, just because there's a slightly different political agenda. But equally, there's an opportunity for you to push some of the really sort of key policy areas that you've been outlining just there.
ANNA: Yeah, it's really interesting as you listen to some of the other parties and starting to get a feel for some of their plans. We haven't quite seen the plans in detail yet, but really encouraging to hear that those conversations are happening behind the scenes actually with those parties, because you're right, we want stability, we need stability. It won't do us any good if we end up with a new government and a new team who come in and really kind of change everything, because there's so much that's really good about our apprenticeships and skill system in this country and you know bits that are really working that we need to hold on to and then obviously the bits that we might like to see tweaked and improved that's where I'd love to see the focus go.
RACH: Fabulous, well look I hope you enjoy National Apprenticeships Week, I imagine it's very busy for you, what are you up to?
ANNA: Very busy, oh all over the place, I get to do some really lovely things so similar to Robert, I'm out about all week meeting with apprentices and employers at various events, so the days are very long, they start very early and finish very late because I can't say no to anything, so we're all over the place. I get to go for afternoon tea in the House of Lords on Tuesday to talk about apprenticeships, and all the way through to the Friday where we've got to actually squeeze in a celebration for one of our members of the team who's completed their apprenticeship actually, and it's her 21st birthday this week. So, yeah, we've got to find time to do some celebration as well. But it's going to be a brilliant week. The buzz out there already is incredible. So, yeah, really looking forward to seeing what everyone gets up to.
RACH: Well, you will be in your element, Anna, and no better woman for the job. So thank you for your time once again. And thank you to everyone for listening to this edition of The Parent Perspective as we look ahead to celebrate National Apprenticeships Week. Thanks for being with us.