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My name is Jeff, and I'd like to welcome you on a journey of reflection and insight into the tolls and triumphs of a career in automotive repair.
After more than 20 years of skinned knuckles and tool debt, I want to share my perspective and hear other people's thoughts about our industry.
So pour yourself a strong coffee or grab a cold Canadian beer and get ready for some great conversation.
[00:00:00] Sean Pierce: It was nerve-wracking to pull. Yeah, I did that for, like, maybe eight or nine years, and then decided I wanted to work towards actually becoming a mechanic. Mm-hmm. So everybody over here when I did it was trying to get jobs. They were like, "Oh, go to school. Get your ASEs. Come talk to us." So they didn't have in-heard programs around here, or if they did, it was like you're gonna spend quarter at the dealership, then go back to school for a quarter, and then flip-flop.
[00:00:32] Sean Pierce: And if you didn't hold the job or you didn't pass the class, then you lost your job. It took me till, like, I was 30 to go to school to go to trade school to get my ASEs, to get an associate's degree in automotive technology
[00:00:53] Jeff Compton: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of the Jaded Mechanic Podcast. Um, it's not as smoky here as it has been, but today's guest, uh, Sean Pierce, and I were just talking about how Sean's in Oregon, and it's actually one of the largest for- fi- forest fires that's going on right now.
[00:01:12] Jeff Compton: He's, like, six miles from. Uh, but it's going the other way, so you know, you don't have to worry. I don't think this one's gonna get shut off early or anything like that because of it, but, uh, things can happen. So, uh, Mr. Sean, how are you today?
[00:01:25] Sean Pierce: Pretty good. Yeah. Keeping busy.
[00:01:28] Jeff Compton: Yeah, that's always good. Yeah. So-
[00:01:30] Sean Pierce: We got a farm, so all our animals are keeping us busy, so.
[00:01:33] Jeff Compton: Right on. Good for you. How m- what kind of animals?
[00:01:37] Sean Pierce: Um, I mean, they're all pasture pets for my wife, but uh, got goats Two donkeys, a horse, chickens, dogs, so So
[00:01:49] Jeff Compton: it's one of those farms where everything's got a name and a face, and none of it's really food yet.
[00:01:54] Sean Pierce: Yep. The only thing we get food-wise is from the chickens, so-
[00:01:57] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:01:58] Jeff Compton: Yeah. My, my brother's buddy has a kind of a farm like that, and I mean, it's a lot of fun. It's... I think it's really cool to raise up kids in that, but I mean, it's, it's, it's always... I always just was like, "God, those are expensive pets." You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, they eat a lot and, you know, it was the whole thing for me with horses.
[00:02:16] Jeff Compton: I, I worked with a technician I can remember, and at one point what he was paying to rent his house was the same as what he was- his girlfriend was paying to board their horse, her horse. And I was... And I, I mean, they were struggling. Like, they were, they were really... You know, they had some tough financial situations and I'm like, "This just doesn't make sense to me."
[00:02:34] Jeff Compton: Like, what the... Y-
[00:02:35] Sean Pierce: Yeah. I mean, we're lucky enough that we've got five acres and a barn and everything, so we're not having to... I don't know if we'd do it if we had to board something. That would be-
[00:02:43] Jeff Compton: Yeah, '
[00:02:44] Sean Pierce: cause- ... really expensive, like you said ...
[00:02:45] Jeff Compton: she, she can't ride the horse to work. Like, what, what are we doing?
[00:02:48] Jeff Compton: We're... It's my grandfather, God bless him, like, if he wasn't betting on them when they were going on the track, to him, they were just a hay burner. That's what he called them and I guess kinda my, my bias has stuck with that. But, um, kinda tell us a bit about yourself, Sean.
[00:03:02] Sean Pierce: Uh, well, I'm a, currently I'm a tech, uh, at an independent shop.
[00:03:07] Sean Pierce: Okay. Uh, it's, it's, it's more based towards, like, Toyota especially and
[00:03:14] Jeff Compton: Sprinters. Nice.
[00:03:15] Sean Pierce: Um, it's kind of like- Not on the Sprin-
[00:03:17] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Not on the Sprinters being nice, Toyota being nice. Sprinter, that's kinda- Yeah,
[00:03:22] Sean Pierce: Toyota's great.
[00:03:23] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Sprinter can suck
[00:03:25] Sean Pierce: it. Sprinter, it doesn't matter what we buy, like, tool-wise, it's never, it's never enough.
[00:03:29] Sean Pierce: It doesn't give you all the information. So, um, but that's what we specialize in. Over here in Bend, it's all those really expensive camper conversions and-
[00:03:39] Jeff Compton: Mm ...
[00:03:40] Sean Pierce: people only drive them twice a year, so they're always breaking down.
[00:03:43] Jeff Compton: So Yeah. I f- I follow a guy on YouTube, um, Kit's Auto Repair, and he seems to have built himself a little niche.
[00:03:50] Jeff Compton: I don't know if you've seen him or not, and, like, people are bringing him a lot of Sprinters that have been converted over to, to RVs or even not converted, just, like, you know, Sprinters that have got the electrical problems that all Sprinters do or, you know, derated 'cause the turbo's shit or, you know, so on and so forth.
[00:04:07] Jeff Compton: And I just, like, shake my head 'cause I, I was in Chrysler when the first Sprinters hit the market, right? So before kinda Mercedes was bringing them out in terms of the North American market, like, Dodge was bringing them, too. And I remember looking at that when I hit the ground, and I remember going on a course, and it was, like, the first published service information that came down from Chrysler.
[00:04:29] Jeff Compton: All the wire colors were wrong Every one of them. Yeah. And we're... Oh, yeah, it was, it was a bad... It was like they gave us service information from the year before. So you'd- Oh ... be looking at a glow plug circuit and, like, all the wires are wrong, but the pins are right. And then it was just, it, it absolutely added a lot more wrinkles to trying to fix these.
[00:04:50] Jeff Compton: So I mean, I have no love for the the Sprinter.
[00:04:52] Sean Pierce: Yeah, no. With that, I'll stay away from those as best I can.
[00:04:56] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:04:57] Sean Pierce: We have, we have other guys that really like to work on them. But yeah, they're all, a lot of them around here are the old, like, FedEx, Amazon trucks. Yes. So they've got a ton of miles on them.
[00:05:06] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:05:06] Sean Pierce: And people think they look great, and then you get into them, and it's just, like, whatever they did to make the doors not light up the dome light circuit or anything, all that's cut out. So we have to trace down and figure out what they did, why they did it, and people don't wanna pay for it.
[00:05:23] Jeff Compton: Well, and that's, I think because the, the...
[00:05:25] Jeff Compton: You know, and I follow them too, like, I see the overlanders and the, and the people living the van life on YouTube, right? And it's, it's very romantic, you know, when you look at it in terms of, oh, that's really cool, you know, to be able to move around and free and, and no fixed address and just kind of... But, like, you gotta have some pretty good DIY skills, I think, to get through them, or else you're gonna be everywhere you pull in and break down, you're gonna be going broke.
[00:05:53] Jeff Compton: Like, it's, it's crazy- Yeah ... to us. 'Cause I can remember, shoot, I can remember one of the last Sprinters I worked on had a, a fuel pump driver problem coming from the ECM, and it was like, it was the turning on the fuel pump. And, you know, it had been towed in, and everybody had told them they needed a fuel pump.
[00:06:10] Jeff Compton: It's like, "Nope, the ECM's not grounding, you know, the relay." Like, it's not, it's... I can make it run for a little bit, but it's not... And, you know, and then of course they, like you said, they don't have any money for, uh, I can't program it, I can't, like, order parts for it. It was just a cluster. And of course then it gets towed back out of there, and they don't wanna pay their diag, and it's like, "I'm sorry, I ca- I can't put this fuel pump in this for you because it's not gonna fix the damn car.
[00:06:36] Jeff Compton: Like, you don't have-"
[00:06:37] Sean Pierce: Yeah. "...
[00:06:37] Jeff Compton: you know, ground going back to your fuel pump." "Why not?" "Well, the ECM's shot." And, um, yeah, it was just, I felt bad for them because nothing ruins a vacation more than a breakdown. But, um- Yeah ... so at your shop then, Sean, do you stick to the kind of the Toyota side, side of stuff, or?
[00:06:55] Sean Pierce: I mean, we kinda work on everything.
[00:06:56] Sean Pierce: I'm, I would say, like, Toyota or... I'm really into Euro cars, that's all. You know, I grew up with Euro cars. I did- Really? When I did car audio for, like, 13 years, I did all the Euro cars that came in 'cause the electrical, and then worked at a couple Euro pe- like, specific shops. So I tend to do both, but I work on everything there.
[00:07:19] Sean Pierce: We work on anything from, like, a GMC Safari all the way up. So we have an NSX coming in Monday- Nice ... that we've worked on for, like, the last 20 years. Yeah. So it's kinda everything, but I do enjoy the Toyotas. They're... It's pretty much all the same-
[00:07:37] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[00:07:38] Sean Pierce: problems all the way across, and people over here, they don't, they don't mind spending money on their Toyotas.
[00:07:44] Sean Pierce: Like-
[00:07:44] Jeff Compton: No. Mm-mm ...
[00:07:45] Sean Pierce: it's, it's a pretty niche market that we've kinda nailed over here.
[00:07:50] Jeff Compton: Okay.
[00:07:50] Sean Pierce: And, uh, it just makes it easier when, you know, we use all OEM parts, so we've, you know, got really good, like... What am I trying to say here? Uh, we're really good with, like, the dealers, local dealers and stuff, so they, you know, tend to help us out on getting parts or finding parts.
[00:08:14] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:15] Sean Pierce: So.
[00:08:16] Jeff Compton: Which, uh, and that's key, right? Because it's like we, we see so many, you know, and you and I kinda talked before we got on about how so much of the issues that's happening in the, in the shops now is that they're forced to buy something and put it in, and it might not even be their first choice, but it might be the only thing available, right?
[00:08:33] Jeff Compton: Because otherwise you might be, say, you know, and going back to the European side of things, y- yeah, Worldpac can ship it, but unless you live somewhere close to, like, where there's a Worldpac warehouse, you're not getting it same day. You're not even necessarily getting it next day. You're probably getting- Yeah
[00:08:49] Jeff Compton: it within the week if you're lucky, right? And,
[00:08:52] Sean Pierce: and it- Yeah, we're, we're, like, right next to the airport here. Okay. So Worldpac, they're pretty fast at sending us stuff, but it's, you know, if we don't order it by 3:00, yeah, it'll be two days away.
[00:09:02] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:03] Sean Pierce: So, but I was in Portland, and there was a hub there. We got a delivery every hour on the hour.
[00:09:10] Sean Pierce: Right. So leaving that to come over here, it's kinda hard.
[00:09:14] Jeff Compton: How did you get into the car audio thing? 'Cause k- kinda like your first... You s- kinda said, like, that was your f- first kinda sticking your toe in the water auto repair. Like, how did you get into that?
[00:09:25] Sean Pierce: Uh, I just had a buddy that was doing it, and, you know, I did all my radio stuff growing up, just like mechanic stuff.
[00:09:32] Sean Pierce: Like, I didn't have the money to pay somebody to do it, so-
[00:09:35] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ...
[00:09:35] Sean Pierce: I just figured it out. But, you know, I-
[00:09:41] Sean Pierce: I really like wiring diagrams, which is weird to say, but, um- I mean, not a lot of people like them, and especially you go into the European stuff, but, um, they just kinda came easy to me. Makes sense to you. So, yeah. So, you know, doing... I say car audio. It's not just stereos and speakers, but it's- Yeah ... you know, I did a lot of alarms, so you had to figure out, like, ohms, resistance, or, you know, what's, what's gonna take the s- you know, CAN bus wiring to get that to open and close.
[00:10:13] Sean Pierce: Um, I did a lot of, like, fiberglass fabrication, metal fabrication. So, I did all that stuff on the side, and I thought I'd try and take it into the car audio part of it. So, uh, once I got in there, it was super easy. Um- Great ... and the companies I worked for were, like, I mean, one of them was the, one of the biggest, I would say, in the Northwest.
[00:10:40] Sean Pierce: They had, like, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Texas stores. So, um, there was a lot of knowledgeable people there that if I couldn't figure it out-
[00:10:51] Jeff Compton: Right ... I could
[00:10:51] Sean Pierce: lean on these people from all these different markets, uh, to get an idea. But, you know, I think Doing that part and all the wiring and interior tear down, um, definitely helped me get to the mechanic part of it, but Uh, we would have brand new cars come from, like, exotic dealers.
[00:11:17] Sean Pierce: Like, I think the last car I worked on was, like, a 2013 Ferrari California.
[00:11:24] Jeff Compton: Wow.
[00:11:25] Sean Pierce: And the guy, he bought it, told the dealer it couldn't have more than three miles on it, and then told us that we couldn't put more than, like, four miles on it. But we were doing like, you know, interior out, bumpers off to do front cameras, rear cameras-
[00:11:43] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm
[00:11:43] Sean Pierce: uh, radar shifters, just a bunch of stuff. And, like, to see those cars come in before even, like, all that I had that information-
[00:11:55] Jeff Compton: Right ...
[00:11:55] Sean Pierce: like, it was nerve-wracking to pull a $100,000 car apart to- Oh,
[00:12:01] Jeff Compton: I, I can't even imagine it. Like, how... I mean, how I would even go about it, you know what I mean? From the, without the what's the process of removing this bumper?
[00:12:12] Jeff Compton: Where's all the fasteners? Yeah. You know? Like, that would scare me. It doesn't scare me so much on, like, a 10-year-old Toyota, right? But I mean- Yeah ... like, you're talking about a, a supercar, a $100,000 supercar with no service information. Like, you must develop some pretty good patience and some pretty good, like, I can't stress about how long this is supposed to take me.
[00:12:34] Jeff Compton: I just have to- Oh,
[00:12:35] Sean Pierce: yeah ...
[00:12:36] Jeff Compton: without breaking anything, you know? Yeah. Oof. Yeah, no.
[00:12:41] Sean Pierce: Yeah. So doing, doing that stuff, like, I think I did that... I'm trying to remember how long I did that. I did that for, like, maybe eight or nine years.
[00:12:51] Jeff Compton: Wow.
[00:12:52] Sean Pierce: Uh, and then decided I wanted to, you know, work towards actually becoming a mechanic.
[00:12:59] Sean Pierce: Mm-hmm. So everybody over here when I did it, uh, was trying to get jobs. They were like, "Oh, go to school, get your ASEs, come talk to us."
[00:13:08] Jeff Compton: Right.
[00:13:09] Sean Pierce: Uh, s- so they didn't have intern programs around here, or if they did it was like, "You're gonna spend, you know, a quarter at the dealership, then go back to school for a quarter, and then flip-flop."
[00:13:24] Sean Pierce: And if you didn't hold the job or you didn't pass the class, then you lost your job.
[00:13:29] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:13:30] Sean Pierce: So, uh, it took me till, like, I was 30 to go to school, to go to trade school, uh, to get my ASEs, to get an associate's degree in- Mm ... automotive technology, because I was tired of everybody saying, "You need to have all these-"
[00:13:49] Jeff Compton: Yeah
[00:13:49] Sean Pierce: "certificates," I guess. But I grew up working on my own cars and, you know, became that friend that everybody came to their house to work on their cars or help them out. So I always wanted to be a mechanic, but, uh, it just seemed- a little bit harder to get there from the beginning. So, uh- It's not always
[00:14:12] Jeff Compton: as, as clear a path as we think, right?
[00:14:14] Jeff Compton: Like, it used to be, 'cause I know when I was coming up, a- and we're talking, so we're talking the end of the '90s, right? A long time ago now. It, it, every shop needed a young person. Like, they, even if it was just like, "We need you to take out the trash and do some oil changes and be able to lift the tires on for the old guy," like, we, we need someone.
[00:14:35] Jeff Compton: And, you know, if you, if you showed some initiative and you had some natural aptitude, I guess, then, you know, you worked your way through. But now I think it's like there's such a shortage, but yet there's no clear... I was just talking with someone else about this, and there's no clear path that goes, "This is what day one looks like, and this is what day 365 looks like, and what the difference will be."
[00:15:00] Jeff Compton: There, I think it's, we just, we just wing it, you know? Uh, and I, I don't think we can do that anymore. I think we've gotta get in and go, "Okay, by the end of your first month, uh, you know, I need you to know how to, like, do an oil change and, and torque, you know, the drain plug and torque the canister fil- you know, cartridge for the filter.
[00:15:18] Jeff Compton: And I need you to, you know, be able to check the tire pressures and do a DVI and, you know, get the air box back in and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, by end of, say, the first year, I, you know, I need you to be able to understand what bad brakes look like versus what good brakes look like." And yet it doesn't seem to be like that.
[00:15:36] Jeff Compton: It seems to be we throw them in there, and then all of a sudden it seems to be whatever aptitude the young person shows us determines their projection or their trajectory, and I don't think that works, Sean. You know?
[00:15:52] Sean Pierce: Yeah. We, uh, luckily at the shop I work at, he's, uh, he's owned it for 25 years.
[00:15:57] Jeff Compton: Okay.
[00:15:58] Sean Pierce: Uh, and he's grown it from, like, a single bay industrial shop to now we have 12 bays.
[00:16:06] Sean Pierce: He built this building. We got an alignment rack. But he'll, he'll start a, a kid out as, like, a shop porter.
[00:16:13] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:14] Sean Pierce: Let them start doing some oil changes, work their way to a C tech, B tech, and, and so on. And, uh, we've seen some people that haven't even made it out of the porter range, but we have one, one guy that's been with us for nine years, and he started out as a shop porter, and he's an A tech now.
[00:16:36] Sean Pierce: We had another guy that just went from... I think it's been a year now. He was lube tech, and is now a C tech. So, there's ways to do it that he's doing correctly that helped out everyone. Uh, I think that, you know, helps figure out the person just with them being in a shop every day and understanding how everything goes.
[00:16:59] Sean Pierce: And then once they become a lube tech, then we can watch them and then start, you know, with their DBIs, looking them over, make sure that they're seeing the correct stuff.
[00:17:08] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:09] Sean Pierce: Uh, and I think that's helped. And just the fact that he does it, um, and I don't think there's any other shops in our town that do that.
[00:17:18] Sean Pierce: So, it's made some great techs, and they've... Like I said, he's been here for, one of them's been here for nine years.
[00:17:26] Jeff Compton: Now, uh, when they, when they get a little bit of a- ability, is he good at keeping them working with him, or does he lose them to competitors?
[00:17:36] Sean Pierce: No. Uh, I mean, they, they stay with us. Um, this other guy's been here for, that's now a C tech, he's been with us for four, uh, five years now.
[00:17:46] Sean Pierce: So... And he's done this the, almost, I would say for 20 years, he's done this style of bringing techs up from the bottom.
[00:17:53] Jeff Compton: So he knows what he's doing.
[00:17:54] Sean Pierce: Um, yeah. Right on. So, and it, it helps. We all help in the shop. Uh, we're not, like, a flat rate based pay structure. It's more hourly with production bonus. Right.
[00:18:09] Sean Pierce: So, there's a lot of- Like, everybody's there to help each other, but they're also there to get that, I guess, bonus on production. But if I have to stop and help someone out or help the CTech understand, like, play in an axle or any of that stuff, uh, or double-check their DBIs, it's- Yeah ... not, it's not hurting me because I can go back right away.
[00:18:37] Jeff Compton: That's good, right? Because it's, it's-- it always ends up, oh, everybody's like, "It's a flat rate thing." It's not a flat rate thing. But if, if the incentivization means that I have to be running around like my butt's on fire to hit my number, it doesn't matter if a flat rate or not, I cannot give the time that my coworker might deserve to understand how to do something better, right?
[00:19:00] Jeff Compton: And it's, so it's not a flat rate thing. It's a, we have to be-- make the numbers work so that everybody is moving and efficient and, you know, is enthusiastic and, and productive. But man, like, if, if you're having seeing that, you know, attitude come out where it's like, "I don't have time for this. I don't have time for you.
[00:19:21] Jeff Compton: I can't teach you." Like, or, "I shouldn't have to do that for..." You're not it's, your system's not working. Too many times- Yeah ... it's, you know, that person is toxic. But I, I keep saying, why are they toxic? What made them that way? And some people are just a-holes. They really are. Uh- Yeah ... some, you know, they, the grind just makes them where they can't back up and they can't slow down and think and just ride the curve.
[00:19:46] Jeff Compton: It's, you know- It can be frustrating ... they're, they're, they're too far gone. But if you've got people that are working together and helping one another, the last thing you wanna do is screw that up by starting to, you know, reach for 5% more. You know what I mean? Like, it just, it's a, it's, it's gonna cost you more than 5%, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
[00:20:06] Jeff Compton: So yeah. Right on. What, um, your boss, what's, uh... Just a single organ- just a single shop? He
[00:20:19] Sean Pierce: just has one? Yeah. Yeah. Yep, just has the one. Uh, it's just him and his wife that run it. They've ran it the whole time. Uh, I think he, you know, uh, our area has a local newspaper or s- uh, maybe, I guess it's a newspaper, but in a 60-mile radius, uh, everybody in those six, uh, six towns votes every year for best auto shop or best hotdog stand or whatever.
[00:20:49] Sean Pierce: They have all these different categories. But for the last seven years straight, we just found out on Thursday that we won it for the seventh time in a row.
[00:20:59] Jeff Compton: Wow. Congrats.
[00:21:00] Sean Pierce: Um, and out of, I think he's won it 10 times total now. Um, so it's, it's a well-recognized shop because he's been around for so long, and he's, he's very big in the community.
[00:21:16] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:17] Sean Pierce: He, like, goes and helps school programs. Like, um, they do, like, auctions and stuff, and kind of help out the community. Uh, so he's big into the community. He's been around here for 30-something years.
[00:21:31] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:21:31] Sean Pierce: Uh, so he, he knows how to treat the customers well, the techs well, knows how to build, like- Right
[00:21:44] Sean Pierce: getting everybody to work well with each other. Yeah. So h- him doing that has made it so he's able to just have the one shop and not have to have multiple shops to kind of- Make up some money or anything.
[00:22:02] Jeff Compton: Yeah. It's better, I think, to do one really, really, really well than to try to get three or four that are just mediocre.
[00:22:08] Jeff Compton: You know what I mean? And, and again, mediocre is all relative to people's perspective, right? Like, we talk all the time about, you know, shops that are known to be the go-to to get something complicated done, and then we have the other shops out there that are, like, good, reliable, you know, can do 90% and get through it effectively and efficiently and, and, you know, please the customer.
[00:22:33] Jeff Compton: We could call them if you wanted, like, the dealer alternative. Um, you know, are you guys... It kinda sounds like you guys are right on that, where you're probably pretty specialized on what you're doing in terms of your two brands because you focus on those two brands, and you become that kind of dealer alternative, right?
[00:22:53] Sean Pierce: Yeah. Would you say? And we do have, like, a, we have, like, a Mercedes dealership in town, but they're so backed up with just-
[00:23:00] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[00:23:01] Sean Pierce: recall stuff that, I mean, if we needed something to get programmed from them, it, before we got a factory scan tool, it would take three months for them to get to us. So they've gotten to the point where if it's a service item from the dealership, they'll send that Sprinter to us.
[00:23:19] Jeff Compton: Mm.
[00:23:20] Sean Pierce: Like, they'll b- tell the customer, "This is who we approve to work on your vehicle besides us."
[00:23:26] Jeff Compton: Right.
[00:23:26] Sean Pierce: Um, so that's pretty good that we've specialized in that point and we're able to have the specialty tools, the specialty s- programmers and everything. Um, and same as the Toyota as well, you know. A lot of the dealerships around here don't work on cars that are older than 20 years anymore.
[00:23:45] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:23:46] Sean Pierce: So they, because we work with them so well, they do put our name out, and that helps us being specialized in those areas. But we do work on, you know- All, all genres of cars
[00:24:01] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm
[00:24:02] Sean Pierce: Uh, we're, you know, I think we're one of the few people locally, if not a little bit further than that, that still work on, like, the old FJ40s
[00:24:12] Jeff Compton: Right
[00:24:13] Sean Pierce: So, I mean, that, he started out working as a dealership when those were, you know- Popular
[00:24:21] Sean Pierce: probably 20, 25 years old Yeah And, you know, we're still working on them to this day, and we're, you know, the dealers are starting to bring those parts back, and we're not afraid to work on them. So we'll, we've got a majority of, you know, FJ40s, FJ60s that have spent 20 years with us- Wow ... to keep these cars around with, you know, close to a million miles on them.
[00:24:46] Jeff Compton: Wow. Yeah. It, we don't, I don't see many of those up here, like where I live. They're, they're not, they're not super common. I did have a, had a good friend and when I lived in Ottawa that they had one in the family. And it was a, it was a pretty cool... 'Cause we were all Jeep guys, and then he'd bring this thing out and we're like, "What the heck is that?"
[00:25:06] Jeff Compton: Like it's, you know. But it was pretty impressive what that machine would do, I have to say. Like it was, it was pretty cool. So and then I have a friend I work with right now that he spent a large part of his youth over in, you know, Europe and Africa and stuff like that with his father's career, and they would talk about what those things would do, right?
[00:25:24] Jeff Compton: Like, you know, he's like, "Well, when we lived in Africa you'd go this place," and he says, "But like you'd come through a section where there was, the road just washed away." And he's like, "But y- so snorkel kit was just standard equipment, right?" Like you just had to have it. And, uh- Yeah ... it's funny now, so when you're, you're up here and you see one with a snorkel on it, you're like, you know, what's that gonna do?
[00:25:46] Jeff Compton: But it's very much just a, a part of that identity of that vehicle. I think it's pretty cool. You know? It's kind of like-
[00:25:52] Sean Pierce: Yeah, I mean, we just make fun of it 'cause it's just a tractor motor pretty much. It doesn't have horsepower, but it's got torque. Yeah You know, it's just funny seeing them on the road still, and like the next generation of- kids, you know, their grandparents had it, their parents have it, now the kids are starting to get them.
[00:26:09] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:10] Sean Pierce: So, uh, yeah, it's pretty funny.
[00:26:13] Jeff Compton: Yeah. What, um, we kinda talked about, like, some of the struggles you were, you, you seem to run into with parts. Do you wanna kinda share me, with me what... Give me some examples of how... Is it a supply thing or a quality thing that's really causing you a lot of, uh, angst, or is it both?
[00:26:34] Sean Pierce: I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, we have all the AutoZone, the O'Reilly's, the NAPA's around us- Yeah ... but a lot of their stuff is starting to go downhill pretty bad. We don't like to use it if we don't have to. You know, our first option is OEM. Mm-hmm. Uh, Worldpac is the next step to get, you know, whatever B grade OEM parts.
[00:26:57] Sean Pierce: Um, but we, you know, sometimes we don't have a choice because it's somebody in town vacationing- Right roll the dice and hope, well, is this, you know, NAPA part that's gonna be good? And then what's starting to get kinda scary now is to open a box from NAPA and see that it's Dorman.
[00:27:18] Jeff Compton: Yeah. '
[00:27:19] Sean Pierce: Cause you see the Dorman part, and then you see the NAPA part, so you go for the NAPA part, and then it's a Dorman inside the box.
[00:27:25] Sean Pierce: So, uh, not that Dorman has a ton of bad stuff, but there's some stuff you wanna stay away from.
[00:27:33] Jeff Compton: Yeah. They're... I mean, and again, like, I've made some good, good relationships with them over there, and, you know, they get, again, 'cause they're the biggest player, that's, that's the first thing, because they're the biggest player in the aftermarket that are, in terms of, are actually trying to m- put out parts that are, are an alternative and a solution.
[00:27:53] Jeff Compton: Let's say that, right? They obviously get dragged under the m- bus the most because they are the biggest player in that realm, right? Like, how many other people are like, "Let's build a window regulator, you know, for, for this particular car even though, you know, it's not a known failure, but let's, let's make sure that we can serve our customer by having one"?
[00:28:16] Jeff Compton: They do that. And then it's like people go, "Oh, well, it's not machined right." Uh, a friend of mine was talking about shifter tubes for her Econoline van. She's gone through this whole thing where it's like, you know... And, and it ends up being machined wrong. And so they were very good and helpful in a sense to her to say, you know, shout out to Lindsay, "Um, well, okay, you and three other people have brought it to our attention that it's actually the m- the holes are machine-flipped.
[00:28:45] Jeff Compton: So, you know, go ahead and buy the af- the, the OE parts, send us these parts back, and we'll pay for your labor." Like, that's, that's not somebody... You know, and this isn't being done through her local parts house. This is being done right from Dorman itself that's looking, taking care- Huh ... for this. So I mean, we talk all the time about, like- You know, "Oh, I put this part on from Dorman and it only lasted, you know, six months."
[00:29:13] Jeff Compton: Sometimes that's a situation of like, I'll t- I'll talk about, you know, blower motor res- resistors as an example, and they'll say, "I put a Dorman one in, it only lasted six months." "What happened?" "Well, it failed again." "Have you looked at the blower motor?" You know? Or... Like, people don't think- The wiring. Yes. And they, and they go...
[00:29:33] Jeff Compton: And of course, Dorman bears the brunt. They get the bullet hole that says, you know, they build a shit part. We're not always in our industry addressing the system as a complete system. We're looking at failed parts, failed parts, failed parts. And then failure analysis and what makes us good at what we do is understanding what it failed and why, and cause and effect.
[00:29:53] Jeff Compton: And I think sometimes Dorman gets hammered on that. It's like, how many times have they warrantied out a window regulator and the door is bent? All the time. You know? Yeah. Or it's not installed properly. Or this is the other thing, we talked about this. Do you know how many parts they get shipped back that are not their part, but they're actual failed OE part because somebody just did not want to pay for a part, they wanted to try something, and then it fixed it and they never technically bought a part, they just got a warranty claim?
[00:30:25] Jeff Compton: And see, Dorman doesn't immediately open up every package and go, "Sorry, we're not paying you any money." They just pay. Yeah. Well, that's people that are, are screwing them, and they're really, um, messing up the numbers of what's really accuracy. So when people start running off going, "Oh, they have a return rate of this," I pay it no mind, right?
[00:30:46] Jeff Compton: Like, I know the Dorman parts that have been... They've been nice enough to send me and I've put in my Jeep, I've had zero problems with. And it's not just me, it's other people that talk about... Let's talk about that Pentastar oil cooler as an example for this reason I finally put one in that I had, like, it, it just leaked as soon as I put it in.
[00:31:06] Jeff Compton: And the customer, unfortunately, they bought it from an online supplier, you know, so there was no warranty. They were, they were in a really bad way. But when I contacted Dorman about it, just saying, "Hey, have you seen this?" They immediately wanted to see the part, see the packaging to know, because they're talking about there's a lot of these counterfeits now, now that are coming out that are in a box that looks like ours, but it's not ours.
[00:31:33] Jeff Compton: And it ended up that I wasn't able to send it back to them because the customer wanted the part for their own warranty BS and everything else. But this is something we gotta remember. So I don't, I don't pay attention much to the, the internet babble anymore about that particular brand. Have I had, uh, you know, Dorman parts fail?
[00:31:49] Jeff Compton: Yes, I had some vent valves on some Nissans that didn't work. So I always say, you know, engine management, it's not my first call, but I have... If somebody says, "Do you wanna put a control head in for... And it's from Dorman," I've got no problem doing that. You know, a switch, a window regulator, nope, got no problem.
[00:32:08] Jeff Compton: Do it all the time, you know? It works. I don't, I don't have issues with it. So I think they get blamed too much is what I'm trying to say.
[00:32:17] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[00:32:18] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:32:19] Sean Pierce: Yeah. No- And I mean, like, like you said, counterfeit parts, we, we don't tend to put customer parts in. Like, they have to be a longtime customer for us. We have to You know, you don't have a warranty.
[00:32:34] Sean Pierce: But, you know, this is not- Yeah ... normal for us to do. And we're starting to s- to even go away from that because there's counterfeit NGK parts, counterfeit Bosch parts. Yeah. Like, it's getting harder, and then you have to... 'Cause they're buying their parts from eBay and finding it, you know, a Denso coil for 20 bucks-
[00:32:55] Sean Pierce: when it's definitely a, you know, 80, $90 part.
[00:32:59] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:33:00] Sean Pierce: Uh, and then trying to show them, like, "Go online. This is the counterf- this is how you tell a counterfeit part." You wouldn't know that, but because we see it all the time, we actually have to start, before we work on the car, kinda do some research, make sure it's not counterfeit or...
[00:33:16] Sean Pierce: You know, it's tough.
[00:33:17] Jeff Compton: It is. And, and the biggest player in the aftermarket, RockAuto, lots of people have talked about them in the last few months about how they have shown examples of counterfeits they bought from there, you know? Yeah. So I mean, it's like we used to be able to say, "Oh, you are gonna be fine if you bought from RockAuto."
[00:33:33] Jeff Compton: We can't even say that anymore. And then let's be real, there's dealers out there that buy aftermarket parts and sell them in the dealership, because if they can buy a Nippon Denso starter from the parts house for less money than what they can buy it from the OE and, and they get a better margin, they're gonna sell it.
[00:33:54] Jeff Compton: Of course they are. They think it's all the same. Yeah. But this is how the counterfeit parts wind up in the dealer level, dealer parts inventory. It's how it happens. It all comes back to people that are making the decisions on where they buy their inventory from are... You know, obviously we're t- we're all trying to, post-COVID, trying to recoup some of those losses.
[00:34:17] Jeff Compton: This is how this stuff happens, and it's like, I wish I could say it's gonna get better, but I feel like it's gonna get a lot worse, Sean. I really do.
[00:34:25] Sean Pierce: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's pretty tough, like, 'cause, you know, some of these parts- When you guys- ... aren't easy to get into.
[00:34:34] Jeff Compton: When you guys say you use almost OE, like, even pads and rotors?
[00:34:42] Sean Pierce: Yeah, there's been some. I mean, like, we try to use I say a lot on the majority of the Toyota ones, if they're local or they can be next day and the customer's okay with it, we'll do OEM pads and rotors. Um, if not, we'll try and get as close to OEM as possible or, you know, we'll do like the... I can't even think of it right now.
[00:35:06] Sean Pierce: We'll do like the Napa brake packages that are like, can't think of the name right now.
[00:35:12] Jeff Compton: I know which ones
[00:35:13] Sean Pierce: you mean.
[00:35:13] Jeff Compton: But- Yeah, they're-
[00:35:14] Sean Pierce: Yeah. Yeah. So we'll do those and just, you know-
[00:35:20] Sean Pierce: We'll, we'll try our best to do as OEM as possible, but it's not every day that we can do that. Yeah. The nice part with like a, you know- We, even if it's like a parts house or we've done some dealer stuff, every new rotor that goes on, we turn- Really? ... and match, we match to the hub per wheel, and we take that first layer off.
[00:35:46] Sean Pierce: That way we can make sure that it's true and straight.
[00:35:49] Jeff Compton: It's- So you're using an on-car lathe every time?
[00:35:52] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[00:35:52] Jeff Compton: Wow. Wow. Very cool.
[00:35:54] Sean Pierce: So- Yeah ... it's just a way to eliminate any potential comebacks for warpage. And we've seen, like, we've had some OEM stuff come that's been, you know, need two passes or whatever. Uh, but it's just a practice that he's always done.
[00:36:13] Sean Pierce: I thought it was crazy coming into this shop. We never turn, we never turned rotors wherever I worked at. It was always just replace it. Yeah. And when I found out that he turned new rotors, I was like, "Well, that's weird. Like, doesn't make any sense." But after doing it for three and a half years and seeing it from anything from an Akebono or a Brembo or something, all the way up to a dealer stuff, it, it makes sense.
[00:36:39] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. I, I used to say all the time, like, the rotors got pretty good. Like, I didn't have to machine... Now, certain brands that we would buy, if we bought them after market, yeah, I'd have to chuck them on the lathe and, and, and pull a cutoff to, to make sure it was true. Um, drums for a long time, you couldn't even get a drum back in my day from Chrysler for the back of a Caravan.
[00:37:03] Jeff Compton: If you bought it through the parts department and put it on, you still had to machine it. You had to take... You had to true it on the, on the brake lathe. And e- and everybody's like, "Why?" Well, they would thump if you didn't. They literally would thump. It did not matter how you, um, how tight you set the, the shoe clearance, they would thump, and it would drive the customer nuts, right?
[00:37:22] Jeff Compton: And it's like they came in with, like, a drum that was completely beyond spec, but it didn't thump, and you put a new drum on, send it down the street, and it was thumping. And everybody was like... So yeah, it became a situation of we had to add additional labor to the job to machine the brand-new part, and, um, that was a frustrating thing.
[00:37:42] Jeff Compton: I machined thousands of rotors back in the day because, like, when we would have a Caravan come in, um, and the customer had... You know, say it sat and had a little bit of lot rot or, um, before it got sold, or the customer got them a little bit... You know, they weren't used to the car, and they would kinda wear their first set of pads down.
[00:38:04] Jeff Compton: Well, back then, you know, we're talking the late, you know, early 2000s, it was still $100 a rotor for a rotor to buy it from the dealer. Yeah. Where I could chuck it on the lathe and an hour labor, 80 bucks, 90 bucks, um, I could, I could shave off just a little bit. The new pads would bed in fine, no problems.
[00:38:23] Jeff Compton: But we had, like we couldn't do that with Grand Cherokees, we couldn't do that really with, um, the bigger trucks because by the time we would knock them off, there was so much deflection in the hub where it went over, like the hub-centric of the rotor that went over the hub, you couldn't get it true again.
[00:38:40] Jeff Compton: So you had to be sure to re- like up here, and I'm sure it's the same for you, you gotta get that stuff super clean before you put the new rotor on, right? And I think that was why- Yeah ... for so many guys when they talk about doing on-car, that's the way you can do it because you don't disturb any of that.
[00:38:54] Jeff Compton: It stays exactly as it was. Um, you know, not- Yeah, like you said,
[00:38:58] Sean Pierce: it's matching to that hub surface.
[00:39:01] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Not-- I've seen lots of guys end up with a wheel bearing failure two, three months later after a brake job because like up here, you know, you take a bunch of swings with a hammer to get that rotor off, and yeah, you're hurting a wheel bearing, you know?
[00:39:15] Jeff Compton: So it's just one of those things where So much in the way we do the job steers people to think, "Oh, this part's junk," or, "That part's," you know, "Don't use this." A lot of it still comes back to how much we do what we do in the bay, right? Like, how is your process look in terms of... You know, it's like, do guys...
[00:39:36] Jeff Compton: We get into the conversation all the time, do guys clean the back of the hubs on the, on the rim where it goes up before they put the wheel back on? 20 years ago, we were never doing that because they were almost all steel rims with a hubcap or steel, and it didn't oxidize the way it does now. Yeah. Every, every time I take a wheel off, I'm cleaning the hub, the back surface of that rim before I put it back on, every time.
[00:39:58] Jeff Compton: 'Cause it's just, you see how much better it torques up and how accurate it stays, and less pulsations and less everything, less vi- less vibration is a big part of it too- Yeah ... 'cause you can stick that on the machine, spin it up on the ro- on the machine, it balances perfect. You go put it on a car and drive it and you're like, "This thing's shaking your teeth.
[00:40:16] Jeff Compton: What's going on?" There's your problem, lady, right? Like it's, you know... I- I... That's where when we get into why it seems like everything's taking longer, techs aren't producing as much, there is literally so many more steps now to doing just what used to be a basic repair, that you could almost make the argument that, like, a brake job i- isn't gonna be an hour and a half anymore, it's gonna be closer to three by the time you do it, right?
[00:40:42] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Per axle. Like, it's just the way it goes. On-car machining, everybody thinks that's so efficient. It is, but the setup time takes a lot longer than just knocking the rotor off and putting a rotor on, you know? Yeah. And you, you know, we see some guys that are flat rating brakes and they go, "I don't understand why these brake parts don't last."
[00:41:02] Jeff Compton: And you take the clips off, the pads are seized in the brackets 'cause the, you know, all the rust that's underneath the clip, nothing's lubricated. If it's lubed, it's lubed with the wrong thing. You know, it's ugga duggas for the put the wheel back on, and everybody goes, "I don't understand why my brake job lasts, doesn't last."
[00:41:17] Jeff Compton: And then somebody else can use the same parts and the brakes last three years, and it goes, "Well, that guy must be crazy the way he drives." Nope. It's just the little details.
[00:41:27] Sean Pierce: Yeah. And that's the nice... I mean, I... This is the first shop that I've ever worked at that was, like, hourly plus a production. Yeah. It was always flat rate before.
[00:41:35] Sean Pierce: So, um- Seeing, I guess, the mentality, like you said, somebody just slap it on as fast as possible, not cleaning or checking. Uh, it's a different mentality. Not saying that there's spot rate people, and I was the same way. Like, I was still super cautious and examined everything, but, uh, there's other people that aren't that way.
[00:42:01] Sean Pierce: So- Of course ... yeah, and you can see the difference between that.
[00:42:04] Jeff Compton: And I can see how it happens too, because what, in the dealership when I was there, we had advisors that were like... They knew that some guys would turn a brake job in and out in 40 minutes, done. A set of front pads and rotors, 40 minutes in and out, you know, no kind of road test, no kind of bed-in process.
[00:42:21] Jeff Compton: And you see other guys like me that was like, they were an hour and a half every time, right? Well, the advisors pretty much figured out soon that it was like, if, if we had a guy that could do it in 40 minutes and it came in at 4:00 and closing time was 5:00, they still sold it and promised it for 5:00. They didn't care.
[00:42:38] Jeff Compton: Whereas now when it's like, if you look and, and quality becomes the, the number one priority, making the job last, they don't play that game where they go, "Yep, sure, you can have it done in an hour," even though, you know, uh, we bill it out at two to get it done right. Because two means, you know, we're, we're throwing the caliper brackets in a blast cabinet and cleaning all that, and maybe we put some paint on them before we put the shim- There's all kinds of ways, right?
[00:43:05] Jeff Compton: We're doing, you know, uh, Sherwood at Royalty talks about like their, their process to just to bed in the brakes after they put brakes on. That's a whole road test of like five miles and so many stops, and like he, he shoots a video on doing it. I do it the exact same way. They used to say it was like 30 stops at, you know, I think 30 kilometers an hour, you know, metric up here, with like 30 seconds in between.
[00:43:31] Jeff Compton: That's what they used to say. And it was hard, like can you get that in a perfect world? Well, no. But you can get pretty close. It gives you the idea that you can't just like back it out of the bay, throw it in a parking spot, and hand the keys to the customer. That doesn't work. Yeah. They are gonna have a very frightening first couple of stops, you know, depending on how they drive, until...
[00:43:51] Jeff Compton: And then they're gonna come back with squeaks and rattles and, 'cause they never even bedded them in right. So-
[00:43:56] Sean Pierce: Yeah ...
[00:43:57] Jeff Compton: you know.
[00:43:57] Sean Pierce: And working, you know, a lot of European cars, they, they're pre-coated and everything, and that's, that's to help with the bedding process.
[00:44:06] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:07] Sean Pierce: And-
[00:44:07] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[00:44:08] Sean Pierce: yeah, if you're driving it around and putting a couple stops on it in the parking lot, that's not doing anything.
[00:44:14] Sean Pierce: Customer's not gonna know how to do it afterwards.
[00:44:17] Jeff Compton: Well, I- They're just gonna
[00:44:18] Sean Pierce: take it and drive it.
[00:44:19] Jeff Compton: And I can remember when, when coated rotors first hit Chrysler in the part- in the, in the dealership, guys that had had comebacks, they were convinced it was the coating. And they would take then a Roloc disc and start buffing the coating off before they went and drove the car, before they assembled it.
[00:44:34] Jeff Compton: I'm like- Wait a minute, that's... I think, like, they wouldn't bother putting that on there unless there was a reason for it to be there, you know? But again, they... You couldn't teach them that they had to take 10 minutes extra time. Like, they, they just weren't gonna hear it. They, they, they weren't gonna have it.
[00:44:51] Jeff Compton: They just, "I've always been able to do them in half an hour, damn it, I'm doing them in half an hour. I'm tripling my time. Job paid one and a half."
[00:44:57] Sean Pierce: Yeah. "
[00:44:58] Jeff Compton: Another 30, you know, how much money am I putting in my pocket? Pretty good." It was frustrating. Brakes are one of those things where it's like I do a lot of them still, and, um, it's the same thing, man.
[00:45:10] Jeff Compton: You can take... I say this all the time, you can put on some pretty, um, less expensive stuff and still get a really good result if you spend the time to do the job properly, right? Like, and, and the industry proves that, because there's guys online that will tell you they spent $18 on a set of pads and $50 on a set of rotors, and they did their own brake job and it lasted two years and they were happy with it.
[00:45:35] Jeff Compton: Why? 'Cause they might have spent a little bit more time doing the cleaning, the prep, than some of us professionals do.
[00:45:42] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[00:45:43] Jeff Compton: You know, it's... I don't- that's, that's, doesn't mean that necessarily, like, the DIYers are really, really, you know, making us look bad. I'm not, I'm not here to say that, so. What, um, what do you really like to do?
[00:45:58] Jeff Compton: Like, you say you like the European stuff, but... And you like wiring. So y- y- are you c- have you been steered to kind of the diagnostic side on those cars?
[00:46:08] Sean Pierce: I would say I spend probably three days a week on just doing diag.
[00:46:15] Jeff Compton: Wow.
[00:46:15] Sean Pierce: And then two days a week getting that diag done as a job.
[00:46:20] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:20] Sean Pierce: Um, but I would say it, it's me and another guy between eight guys that are there that just do a majority of the diag.
[00:46:29] Sean Pierce: Right. Um, I like it. I'm one of those people that don't give up. Yeah. Like, I'll fight it to the end. I'm also... Like, if I can't find it on AllData or get information direction from Identifix, I'll go deep in the internet and-
[00:46:45] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ...
[00:46:46] Sean Pierce: you know, when I did... I worked on Volkswagen and Audi only for five years.
[00:46:51] Jeff Compton: Whoa.
[00:46:51] Sean Pierce: If I couldn't find it, and I found it in a Russian webpage- ... by Google translating it, I, like, I would spend time finding it. I don't like to see something, A, I give up and give it to another tech and have them try and do it.
[00:47:10] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:10] Sean Pierce: Uh, that, you know, I'm always just, like, right there. It's just right there.
[00:47:15] Sean Pierce: So I think that's why I like diag, 'cause I can f- figure it out.
[00:47:22] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Um- It's rewarding, isn't it? Like, it's, it's-
[00:47:24] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[00:47:25] Jeff Compton: Yeah. It kinda... And I, I tell everybody that's what I got me addicted to it, was because it was like not everybody could do it. So I felt really good when I could do something that somebody else couldn't.
[00:47:36] Jeff Compton: Because like, yeah, you can, you can turn hours, and I can put a steering rack in, or I can do brakes, or I can do tires, or I can do struts, or I can do timing belts. But man, that's just got like assembly line work, right? Whereas the, the problem-solving, yeah, that was really rewarding, to see something towed in and it didn't run, and it was, you know, network was down.
[00:47:58] Jeff Compton: And, and you find that eureka moment, and you restore that car back to the way it was supposed to be, and you know that, like, everybody's kinda looking around going, "What? No way. I'd have never thought of that." Yeah. Well, that, that's a dopamine kick that, man, that I still chase that in my life to this day, 'cause it's just like you feel so good.
[00:48:19] Jeff Compton: It, it's like the only thing that makes me wash away the crap that took forever was like the, "Holy shit, nobody else would've got this," which is- Yeah ... not true. Somebody else would've eventually. Somebody else maybe even faster than me, for sure. I know a lot of smart guys. But it's that in the moment thing that, oh, like you, you know, 'cause we all get these cars, and you, you get in and you're like, you know, saying a little prayer before you hit the key, right?
[00:48:48] Jeff Compton: But when you see that, that failure, you find that chewed wire, you find that loose pin, or, you know, you go and unplug that network, you know, that c- that module, and your network's restored. That, nothing feels better in the world than that. Nothing. You know? To drive the car again, and the mist is gone, and the power is restored, and the stalling stopped, all that shit.
[00:49:10] Jeff Compton: That's... Man, I'll chase that high till I'm done, I think, you know?
[00:49:15] Sean Pierce: Oh, yeah.
[00:49:16] Jeff Compton: Yeah. It's-
[00:49:16] Sean Pierce: Yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely rewarding, and it's all, uh, it's something I'll always, like, when I figure it out, it's something I keep in my mind.
[00:49:25] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:49:26] Sean Pierce: Like, I don't really for- like, I'll remember a lot of stuff from years ago.
[00:49:33] Sean Pierce: It just sticks there. Yeah. It shouldn't- ... but it'll come back at some point. It's not the only time it's ever going to happen. Uh, we, when I was at the Volkswagen shop, we were down the road from an, like, insurance auction place.
[00:49:51] Jeff Compton: Mm.
[00:49:51] Sean Pierce: And the dealers didn't work on totaled cars because they were afraid of a pinched wire or something, so they would come to us as well with accident damage- Yeah
[00:50:01] Sean Pierce: and having to figure that out. Um, so finding, you know, breaks in wires or whatever, that also helped as well, 'cause they didn't have another option.
[00:50:13] Jeff Compton: Yeah. '
[00:50:13] Sean Pierce: Cause the dealership didn't want anything to do with it. So I, I had a lot of- Just the electrical part was a, like a huge... It's been a huge part. I did it in car audio, so I had to figure out, like I said, CAN bus wires or triggers or whatever.
[00:50:28] Sean Pierce: Even before, like, we had an equivalent, I can't remember the name of it, but it was kinda like all data's electrical sections. Right. And, uh, they would, you know, all, all the alarm companies, if we saw the car first, they would, you know, and we could figure out it takes this many ohms of resistance to make this door unlock, because it was different than the last one.
[00:50:54] Sean Pierce: Yeah. We would actually send that information to them-
[00:50:56] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[00:50:57] Sean Pierce: and they would give us credit on this, I can't remember what it is. But they would, that's how they would figure it out before the dealership would give them to them, 'cause they were a third-party company.
[00:51:06] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:06] Sean Pierce: So getting to figure that stuff out too was fun.
[00:51:09] Sean Pierce: So I think just the electrical part of it and the hunting down- Yeah ... definitely g- is very rewarding. So, and being European cars, most people don't wanna touch it because it's, it scares them. But I, it's just, it's a wire with a circuit- Yeah ... and it does something.
[00:51:30] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:51:30] Sean Pierce: So-
[00:51:33] Jeff Compton: So with your background then on, on a lot of that kind of work, Sean, have you been able to kind of avoid the, the flat rate, um, what's the word?
[00:51:43] Jeff Compton: Flat rate culture that kind of comes in with, like, trying to always rush and get things done? Or, or have you still been bitten by that too in your, in your career?
[00:51:52] Sean Pierce: No, I, I mean, like I said, this is the first shop that I was hourly. Everything else I was at flat rate. Even when I did the car audio side of it, it was commission.
[00:52:00] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:01] Sean Pierce: So, um, it just taught me to be more efficient with my time.
[00:52:08] Jeff Compton: Okay.
[00:52:09] Sean Pierce: Uh, I never had a problem with flat rate, and it might have been just because I was at, like, decent shops that there was a co- we never had, like, a, a dip in business. So I never was at really those sh- like, shops that sat around and did nothing for days.
[00:52:26] Jeff Compton: Right.
[00:52:26] Sean Pierce: So I didn't really see the negative of it, um, negative side of it. Some jobs, yeah, on diag would take longer, but we, because of the type of car, we would get to a point and ask the customer, like, "Do you... We're, we think we need another two hours. Are, are you willing to pay another two hours to continue this?
[00:52:51] Sean Pierce: Uh, we think we'll find it in that time." Or if it's something that it's been at multiple shops, "W- what's a, what's a reasonable number you want us to stop at?"
[00:53:01] Jeff Compton: Yeah. "
[00:53:01] Sean Pierce: Before you give up?" That way it gives us an idea of how in-depth we're gonna have to go with it, so it doesn't... I'm not s- getting an hour diag to do electrical diag on something that takes me seven hours.
[00:53:16] Jeff Compton: Yeah. You're not- Um- ... gonna take on the hero car for only an hour, you know what I mean? That's- Yeah ... been bounced around, and they come in with, like, that stack of invoices from two other shops and one, you know, one uncle with a toolbox, and the car's still broke, and all of a sudden, you know, you got an advisor telling them, "Well, yeah, okay, so our diag's an hour.
[00:53:36] Jeff Compton: You know, our initial diag is an hour, and then we'll call you after that." Man, we've gotta be a lot more willing in this industry to... A- a- and it's not about taking advantage of the customer, but it's about having a very real conversation about this is what this could really look like. Like I got some sharp people in the back, but the first, say we charge four hours, the first two of that is I-- that we've gotta go behind everybody that's already been in here and see what they did.
[00:54:02] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And look at what parts they installed and look at, you know, did they forget to unplug something? Is the cheap part that somebody bought on Amazon actually... You know, were they right in their diagnosis, but their execution using the product is what failed? All that stuff has to be fleshed out. And, and it's not, you know-- People just need to have a lot more conversation that goes, "This could go five hours.
[00:54:27] Jeff Compton: But listen, if we get it in three, we're not putting two hours in our pocket and, and- Yeah ... and, you know, taking advantage of them. We're gonna, we're gonna stop at three 'cause that's all it took." Yeah. "But we need a commitment here that we're gonna be..." 'Cause otherwise, like, there's so much of this is flow anymore, right?
[00:54:43] Jeff Compton: It's flow and it's like, "Okay, Sean, uh, you gotta call the customer for another hour. Stop what you're doing. Go get on another job." Like that's just like s- you might as well go home. Yeah. And keep your brain not muddled with a different car because I know what it was like back in the day. I, I would, I'd be on one diag and we'd have to call the customer for more time and I'd get onto another diag.
[00:55:06] Jeff Compton: Well, shoot, by the time I came back to that one that we were waiting on, it was like starting over again, you know?
[00:55:12] Sean Pierce: Yeah. Having to re-familiar.
[00:55:14] Jeff Compton: Yeah. It's crazy. Or getting the tool back out or pushing it back in or like any of that kind-- Or it was like, you know, all of a sudden now I had gotten enough work that I was like I was gonna have a good week and I didn't even wanna think about that car till next Monday and the pay rolled over again and all that kind of stuff.
[00:55:32] Jeff Compton: Like that was all stuff that came into my mind too. Whereas if, like, we just have the conversation right up front and be very transparent with the customer that's like, "This one's gonna suck," you know? "It's gonna, it's- Yeah ... are you willing to see it through?" And if they say no, cool. You know, we don't, we don't hurt our reputation.
[00:55:55] Jeff Compton: We don't, you know, burn the customer. We don't, uh, force our hand and stick a known, you know, "Oh, Identifex says this is the biggest offender, jam that in there." We don't do that, you know? Um, being under the, under the gun for time is what's making so many of us that, like, everybody thinks we don't know what we're doing, and the reality is, I keep coming back to it and, and I, I, you know, I upset some of my friends 'cause I say, "I believe there's a lot more talent out there than what we're giving credit for, but it's the time and the money right now that's keeping people from being able to really show what they can do."
[00:56:33] Jeff Compton: And I get it, it's a tough economy, but I don't... I, in my heart of hearts, don't wanna believe that so many of us are that incompetent with what we're doing. I wanna believe that we just weren't given enough time to do it, and You know, I know that's a pipe dream in some cases, 'cause there are some people out there that just shouldn't be touching the car.
[00:56:56] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And I got a lot of I got a lot of crap for saying, you know, "If you don't know what you're doing, don't touch it." And of course, people said, "How are you ever gonna learn if you don't try?" And they ha- they're making a very good point, for sure. But try, we can't try on every car. Yeah. And, and, and customer financed that for us, 'cause it's the same as, like, do you, do you charge the customer for learning?
[00:57:19] Jeff Compton: Well, you know, not really, but sometimes it does happen. And, um- Yeah ... it's, it's just, is it right? Ah, that's a big, that's a big conversation, isn't it, Sean? Like, it's a big- Yeah. What do you think about that? Like, you've had cars, I'm sure, that have kicked your tail.
[00:57:39] Sean Pierce: Oh, yeah. I was think- I was talking with a buddy the other day.
[00:57:44] Sean Pierce: Uh, I worked on this Audi.
[00:57:46] Jeff Compton: Mm.
[00:57:47] Sean Pierce: It was like a Audi S8 with a V10 in it, and uh, it came in with 74 codes. And it had everything from EVAP to ignition to, it had, like, the exhaust solenoids to open up the flappers. I mean, it... Like, 26 different systems, and they all kinda linked up. Uh, and that, that kicked my butt, and that was one of those customer things where we're like, "Look, it, I mean, it's 74 codes."
[00:58:23] Jeff Compton: Yeah. "
[00:58:25] Sean Pierce: And we're gonna spend time trying to link them together, clear them, hope that the circuit that's bad is going to come back-" Yeah. "... and then we can con-" Look, it goes from 74 to 20. All right, cool. That's great. And luckily, this customer was good enough that he was just like, "Just go ahead and, you know, call me after 20 hours."
[00:58:47] Sean Pierce: Wow. Not that it needed to go 20 hours, but, uh, he understood that a lot of the stuff wasn't even linked together.
[00:58:57] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:59] Sean Pierce: So I think that having the customer understand that and giving him, letting him know the process that it might take and him giving us that number helped out. But it was still, I mean, I think it took me, like, almost- almost 19 hours to figure it out.
[00:59:22] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[00:59:24] Sean Pierce: And even at 10, we're like, "You s- sure you still wanna go? We've, like, uh, limited it down a little bit, but there's still a lot more to go." And it ended up just being, like, a high pressure pump blew out a main relay, but before it blew out that main relay, it took out one of the ECMs, 'cause it had two ECMs.
[00:59:45] Sean Pierce: And when that happened, then it started seeing missing circuits, so it was-
[00:59:50] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[00:59:51] Sean Pierce: just daisy chaining. But, you know-
[00:59:56] Jeff Compton: What is their-
[00:59:56] Sean Pierce: Yeah, that was-
[00:59:57] Jeff Compton: What's their thinking, Sean, for putting two ECMs in it? Like, one, I guess it's too many drivers for one to handle, so they kinda split it. Is that the, the thinking?
[01:00:07] Sean Pierce: Well, I know on, like, that Audi, it was because it had two throttle bodies.
[01:00:11] Jeff Compton: Okay.
[01:00:11] Sean Pierce: So they would do, like, a bank one ECU and a bank two ECU.
[01:00:15] Jeff Compton: Oh. Yeah, yeah.
[01:00:17] Sean Pierce: Uh, which makes sense, but it's not like... Sometimes it was bank one, bank two, but sometimes it would be, like, a throttle body here, and then it would be the f- half the firing order, so it would swap out.
[01:00:31] Sean Pierce: So you'd think you'd be chasing one, but you'd have to chase them both. And yeah, maybe that's why is because too many drivers.
[01:00:38] Jeff Compton: Right.
[01:00:39] Sean Pierce: Everything's ran from the ECU now, so That would be my guess. 'Cause that's, I mean, that was a lot of stuff to put in it, you know. If he had one ECU, you'd be just chasing your tail trying to figure it out.
[01:00:55] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Which is, uh, I mean, I could see an advantage to having two, because if you have two duplicate, you know, everything going on, you could have a known good maybe to compare. If, if it would allow you to see that trend, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. But man, that's... You're- we're talking next level stuff, you know?
[01:01:19] Jeff Compton: I think back to when I first started working on ambulances, they used to have this, we call it an ECM. It was an ECM back in the back that controlled all the other functions on the body of the ambulance. And they ran all the lighting off the one corner of the ECM, which again, was the circuit board inside.
[01:01:37] Jeff Compton: Now, what would happen is when it would have all these lights on at once, that corner would start to overheat, and then it would wanna shut down, and it would lose lighting and, and it would do all kinds of wonky stuff. Now, the people that created the computer were smart enough that they went, "Okay, we've, we've figured out through our testing that this is what happens.
[01:01:57] Jeff Compton: All these ambulances, what we want you to do is start moving pins around in the harness, and then we're gonna send you an updated file that's gonna turn on unused drivers on a different part of the board, and, and you go back to fixing your lights." And I remember I went and did the first one like that, and then I went, "Wait a minute."
[01:02:13] Jeff Compton: And I started getting an amp clamp out, and I started looking at, you know, amperage, and I'm like, "If I just switch the lighting to LED, we don't have to redo the harness and we don't have to redo the program." Well, I thought, "Let's try that." And sure enough, it worked without having to redo anything. So they're very much like sometimes the engineers are like, "It's engineered to work with these kind of lights."
[01:02:36] Jeff Compton: Cool. But if I put LEDs on, which was costing a lot less money now, and is a better light, then, then what they wanted to do, it fixed it the same. So that's... When I think about, like, more than one way to fix something, there's always more than one way to fix something.
[01:02:52] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[01:02:53] Jeff Compton: But it's, it's that ability, for me- That's when I really kind of stepped out and went, "Okay, so there's no..."
[01:03:01] Jeff Compton: 'Cause there's nothing published in ProDemand or All Data or Identifix about this because this is somebody has built this program, this hardware, this everything for this body that goes on the back of this Chevy 3500. And you're talking to them and they're like, "Well, this is what our guys came up with."
[01:03:18] Jeff Compton: And I'm like, "Cool." Uh, I fixed some lights and- Yeah ... you know, it's just one of those things where when you get to that level of where you can think outside of what the engineer was thinking about, you can fix anything, man. And that's like, you know, I wasn't paid flat rate. I was just showed up, here's a broken ambulance, go fix it.
[01:03:40] Jeff Compton: And I went, "Right on. Let's see what I can do here." And, uh- Yeah ... it was fun. It was a lot of fun, you know. They taught me a lot. What, um- How do you find when you're working on that kind of those higher end cars, are you set up mostly with all the OE service information as well as, like you said, the OE scan tool?
[01:04:04] Sean Pierce: Uh, I, I can't remember what it is that we have, but it does a lot of the European stuff, and it does have a lot of the OEM, like, um, tests and everything on it.
[01:04:17] Jeff Compton: Okay.
[01:04:18] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[01:04:18] Jeff Compton: Uh- ISTA, or is that what it is?
[01:04:21] Sean Pierce: Maybe? I think so.
[01:04:23] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:04:26] Sean Pierce: We just got it, like, a couple months ago. I haven't used it that much. Um- But a majority of the stuff I, I, I tend to use, like All Data and Mitchell as much as I can- Mm-hmm ... just to get the wiring diagram down on it. Yeah. Um, I have like the Ross Tech scan tool for Volkswagen Audi, and that- I'm a- That, I feel, is...
[01:04:53] Sean Pierce: It's a free program. You buy the cord. That's probably one of the hands down best modules or scan tools that I've ever used.
[01:05:02] Jeff Compton: Right.
[01:05:02] Sean Pierce: Um, 'cause there's been chance or instances where I've gone through like the Snap-On or- Yeah ... uh, Autel or anything, and it doesn't even- Yeah ... show like the, the PIDs or anything, or give you the option to do like throttle body relearn or whatever.
[01:05:20] Sean Pierce: Um, and then the Ross Tech, you know, I spent $900 on a cable, and it does... It's a factory program.
[01:05:29] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:05:30] Sean Pierce: So-
[01:05:34] Sean Pierce: It's... I just jump around, I guess, and if it doesn't work with one scan tool, I'll try another scan tool, uh, just 'cause we have the option to have them, but I own the Ross Tech personally.
[01:05:44] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:05:44] Sean Pierce: So even the OBD generic function on the Ross Tech, it'll work on, like, 90% of the cars, and it gives you a lot more information than a scan tool does-
[01:05:53] Jeff Compton: Yeah
[01:05:53] Sean Pierce: or a Snap-On does or whatever. They're trying to emulate that as best they can, but, you know, everything's starting to be, like, pay locked.
[01:06:03] Jeff Compton: Yes. Yeah.
[01:06:04] Sean Pierce: So, uh, that's... They can only go so far, whereas, you know, factory scan tools are obviously better at that point. But I, I try to f- I guess remember which one I can get the most information out of.
[01:06:22] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm lucky now I've got, I've got two scan tools. I've actually got three available to me. Two are my own. Uh, I've got a Snap-On and I've got a Launch. And, um, and then we've got a smaller Autel. I can't remember the thing, but it's the little tiny one. Very capable tool for what it does. But I mean, what the Launch will do, um, especially on Euros, is so far ahead of what the Snap-On will do.
[01:06:46] Jeff Compton: And I mean, and it's a Zeus that gets updated, like, every month, you know. It's just on automatic- Yeah ... update constantly. But the, the Launch just comes out and does so much more. And not only does it do it so much more, the topology's there, which is really cool, that the Zeus doesn't do. And then it's like, you know, the way to navigate it around to find the really quick stuff that you wanna do, like I just wanna clear the service light and I just wanna, you know, check the oil level that, you know, 'cause it doesn't have a dipstick, so much faster.
[01:07:13] Jeff Compton: So much faster. Yeah. I, I love that tool. I... It's my first kick at a Launch, and, uh, I definitely... They've been great for sponsoring me here and, uh, I just absolutely love the tool. It's my first grab now. I almost never grab the, the, the Snap-On anymore. And I keep thinking, like, the Launch I'm gonna hook up to a domestic and it's gonna have a sh- a hole that the, that the s- the Snap-On won't.
[01:07:39] Jeff Compton: I can't say that yet. It's been able to do everything domestic-wise too that I've needed it to do that the Snap-On could. So it, it's pretty... I think the days of being in a shop and only having one tool are long gone. Long gone. I think the days of- Oh, yeah ... one tool, one service information, you can't get by anymore.
[01:07:55] Jeff Compton: I think it's just become, uh, y- you gotta have multiples, you know, in order to be able to get through this stuff. And, uh, you know, you can never have too many resources, I guess is what I'm trying to say, so.
[01:08:08] Sean Pierce: Yeah, I mean, we just bought the new Launch too. I don't remember which one it was. But yeah, we have two Autels, two Snap-Ons- Yeah
[01:08:15] Sean Pierce: the Launch, that one OEM interface one for Euro cars, and then we have a guy that has a TOPDON.
[01:08:22] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[01:08:23] Sean Pierce: And we'll snag that every once in a while. It, it, it's just whatever's gonna work the best. So, but yeah, one, having a one scan tool is not working anymore.
[01:08:37] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Now how do you find, um... Do you touch EVs and hybrids at all?
[01:08:45] Sean Pierce: We do. I've done a couple of the, like, Audi hybrids. Uh, not a ton of information out there on them.
[01:08:53] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:08:53] Sean Pierce: Not a lot of functions that the scan tools do, but there's enough to get by with what we're doing. Right. Uh, and then we do a, we do a ton of Priuses and the RAV4 hybrids. Um, and we have the, um, the TIS or the GTS, Toyota GTS, so that helps out a ton on those hybrids and stuff.
[01:09:14] Jeff Compton: Yeah. It's, um... We had a Volvo, one of their, one of VX90 or the big, the, the SUV with a hybrid, and, um, it was a problem car for, for us because customer bought it on the condition that, like, that Volvo checked the state of the, the, the, the battery. And they checked it out and said, "Yeah, it's five, four years old, five years old.
[01:09:36] Jeff Compton: Battery's at 90%." And it was. We have all the printouts from the dealer, you know, and the whole thing. Well, within three months, the, the battery was only at 50% capacity, and then the customer was, like, irate 'cause, you know, they ended up, like... And, and I get it, but it's a, it's, it's one of those used cars things, right?
[01:09:55] Jeff Compton: Like, it's just... I don't know. I, I don't love the technology, but like, I'm slowly, by the month, every month, I'm having to embrace it a little bit more, that it's just gonna be, you know, unless I get out now, I might as well get comfortable with it because it's, I'm gonna see more and more of them, you know?
[01:10:10] Jeff Compton: They're not gonna go anywhere. Um-
[01:10:12] Sean Pierce: Yeah, and with this, us being Toyota, like, based, all these new Tacomas and Tundras that are all the hybrids- Mm-hmm ... uh, yeah, we're gonna have to start, you know, we're already starting s- you know, doing, like, oil changes and stuff like that, but diag's gonna come, and we're gonna have to be able to be on top of that.
[01:10:30] Sean Pierce: So, um, I think there's incentive to learning it. I, I understand, like, the Prius hybrid, like, that's an easy car to work on. It's flawless.
[01:10:43] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:10:43] Sean Pierce: But you start getting into, like, this Audi hybrid I went on, and it, it didn't have... It only had like 30,000 miles on it, and it was already having, like, sensor issues.
[01:10:54] Sean Pierce: So- Oh, yeah ... uh, and the information wasn't there, and I, you know, had to shoot a part at it, and actually ended up calling Audi, and they luckily helped us out with a little bit of it. But yeah, we, we have to jump on that boat too.
[01:11:09] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And-
[01:11:11] Sean Pierce: Start getting it, and even our shop car, we have loaner cars at the shop, and, you know, we have a Hyundai EV, and we have a Volkswagen EV.
[01:11:21] Sean Pierce: So we're not gonna pay somebody to work on those, so-
[01:11:24] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[01:11:24] Sean Pierce: you know, we're learning on those. So it, um-
[01:11:31] Sean Pierce: It's definitely, like, more learning that, that's gonna have to happen. So, and like having, like you said, like each day having to get into it a little bit more to be comfortable with it because it's not going to change.
[01:11:46] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and, you know, everybody's so scared of it, you know, from the sense of...
[01:11:54] Jeff Compton: But I mean, I don't think-- I think some of the, the initial fear from the physical standpoint of I can really get hurt, um, you know, and yes you can, but they're making them so good now that you have to be, like, almost intentionally trying to sabotage yourself in order to hurt yourself. Like it's-- And if you wanna go in and service so much of this, you can't even get at it without pretty much, like, doing the disconnect that's gonna make it safe.
[01:12:24] Jeff Compton: You know what I mean?
[01:12:25] Sean Pierce: Oh, yeah.
[01:12:26] Jeff Compton: You know, I used to remember, like, when the dealership for Nissan, you know, and it was like, there was a big joke 'cause the guy had to service, he had to change a battery out in a Leaf, who knows, you know, like shocking. Yeah, that's what they do. Um- Yeah ... and they, you know, they have to put up the pylons and rope around them and, you know, get the hook for him in case, you know, and all that kind of stuff.
[01:12:46] Jeff Compton: And I'm like, "Yeah." I mean, it's... Is it a little overkill? Um, no. But, you know, we know that there's shops out there that now are, are servicing these quite fine and following and, and having no issues. So, you know, I think it's just one of those things where, you know, as people become more comfortable, they're not so scared anymore.
[01:13:11] Jeff Compton: And then it's like, from-- 'Cause from a tech standpoint, it's pretty simple. It's very simple. Yeah. You look at the way some people do EVAP, as an example, and then you look at how people do EV, and it's like, well, EV's way more easier to understand than the ways- Yeah ... you wanna do an EVAP system. But you know, it's, it's when we get into the, well, how are they doing the, you know, the HVAC in a- in, in regards to that and intermixing.
[01:13:35] Jeff Compton: That's when we get into where I think most of the people are not paying attention to the precautions, I think, is what's happening is with EV. Like, guys are going out with a Prius and buying a can of refrigerant at the AutoZone and trying to pump it into the car. Like, God, don't do that. You know, I mean, don't do that in any car.
[01:13:51] Jeff Compton: But please- Yeah ... stop doing it when, you know stop looking for your cheapest place to service the HVAC system on your hybrid or your EV, please. Like, let the people that know what they're doing touch it, you know. Um, ADAS the same way. Please stop looking for the cheapest, you know. S- stick with the professionals.
[01:14:11] Jeff Compton: Um, what, uh, when you see the technology coming on, Sean, what are you really excited for?
[01:14:23] Jeff Compton: Tough question, I know.
[01:14:24] Sean Pierce: Yeah. I mean, a lot of the, um... I wanna get into more of the ADAS stuff.
[01:14:30] Jeff Compton: Okay.
[01:14:31] Sean Pierce: Just, uh, we don't... I mean, we have a ton of body shops around us, so most of the time it's just go to a body shop, have them do calibrations and stuff. We have the space in the shop that we can start doing it.
[01:14:43] Sean Pierce: Right.
[01:14:47] Sean Pierce: Because they're, I mean, I think the way that the systems integrate Would be nice to understand it and I guess be able to, to I guess replicate what the, what the system does. So learning about it and being able to, and further on down the line, diag it. I think that's exciting because, you know, I just drove something the other day I don't remember now, but it, it, just the way that it, like, self-corrected and- Yeah
[01:15:29] Sean Pierce: you know. Like, I'm not a big fan of, like, the, the self-driving cars.
[01:15:37] Jeff Compton: Yeah,
[01:15:37] Sean Pierce: okay.
[01:15:38] Jeff Compton: It's- I was just gonna ask you, yeah ...
[01:15:39] Sean Pierce: it's a little weird, but, uh, I think there's room for error in that, but if you can understand why it's doing that, then it might make it a little bit easier to be okay with it.
[01:15:53] Jeff Compton: Well, it's like I tell everybody, if you wanna see something really cool, you know, go to, go to Las Vegas and, and just take, you know, take the Tesla Loop.
[01:16:02] Jeff Compton: Like, get in, you know, get in an Uber Tesla or like a, you know, taxi Tesla, and have them run you through the loop, you know. And, uh, uh, it, it's... The first time I ever did it was last year, and it amazed me to watch these, like... 'Cause you're in tunnels underneath Vegas, and, you know, you're whipping along, the car's driving itself.
[01:16:23] Jeff Compton: You're sitting in the passenger seat, and he doesn't have his hands on the steering wheel. He's not touching nothing. And you can see in the screen the tunnel that's next to you in underground, but you can't see it 'cause it's dark, but you're seeing the car come in the tunnel towards you the other way, and it's like, it's the trippiest thing in the world, right?
[01:16:41] Jeff Compton: And it's showing you the next cross tunnel where that's gonna happen, and I'm like, "This is the coolest thing in the world." Like, not from a standpoint of like, man, do I wanna work on them all day long- Yeah ... but it's neat in the sense that it's like when Mike Allen was talking just the other day about how self-driving's gonna become a thing because as we keep getting more and more cars on the highways, the only way we're gonna be able to keep all those highways moving is by self-driving.
[01:17:11] Jeff Compton: 'Cause like we're not gonna have distracted people. We're gonna be able to whip along at 70 miles an hour within 10 feet of the person in front of us's bumper and not have an accident because that's the only way we're, we're gonna be able to fit all these cars on the highway. Yeah. And that's a scary proposition then because it's like you said, it's one person that doesn't get the calibration right, and all of a sudden we have a chain reaction.
[01:17:35] Jeff Compton: And I, from the ADAS side of it, like I've talked to a lot of guys and they've made some big investments in ADAS, and then it's like it doesn't pay out as well as they would've hoped because it's, they're being beat up by the body shops that only wanna pay X amount of dollars for a calibration or... And the dealers are going, "Hey," like, you know, "my guys do them in an hour."
[01:18:00] Jeff Compton: Your guy's not really doing it in an hour. Like they're, they're getting the light to go off, but is it really calibrated? Like I don't necessarily I haven't embraced the idea yet that I wanna trust the, you know, that I can put my cruise control on and come up right on the bumper of somebody doing 75 miles an hour and not hit my brake pedal.
[01:18:21] Jeff Compton: Like I, I'm not there yet as a, as a motorist. Um-
[01:18:26] Sean Pierce: Yeah ...
[01:18:27] Jeff Compton: believe that like it's like anything else. I think as we keep going further and further into the tech- There's gonna be more systems in place that it, like it won't rely on just one. It'll rely on a multiple system or, you know, something's gonna happen, another camera that maybe, you know, the two have to agree or something.
[01:18:44] Jeff Compton: I, I don't know, but it's gonna be cool. It's not going away, that's for sure, I can tell you. It's just, I hope it's not pricing cars out of the, the everyday person's budget because they're not gonna be able to afford to fix some of these systems. Like you and I have seen lots of cars come in with an airbag light or an ABS and they're not fixing it because it's getting towards maybe the end of its life and they don't bother and they don't care and, you know.
[01:19:11] Jeff Compton: And that's just ABS. Yeah. Now, when it's like the thing's gonna self-drive and it's not gonna hit the brake because nobody calibrated it properly, that's scary. Yeah. So, you know.
[01:19:25] Sean Pierce: And I think that's scary on the other end too, like you said, like that tech may have got the light to go off.
[01:19:30] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:19:31] Sean Pierce: But that, you know, is that c- that's gonna fall all the way back to you?
[01:19:36] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:19:36] Sean Pierce: Or is it just gonna be because it was part failure? Like it's, it's pretty, yeah
[01:19:43] Jeff Compton: Well, I can remember the front radar sensors when they were really problematic in Nissan. You saw the time that they were paying the, the tech to, uh, diagnose it, change it out under the recall, put it back in, and supposedly do all the calibrations.
[01:19:58] Jeff Compton: It wasn't getting done. There's no flipping way it was getting done for the time that they were gonna pay. Um, guys were putting the camera in, uh, clearing the codes, probably running through some kind of self-check, and driving it, and if the light stayed off, it was shipped. And, you know, the high, the high and mighty in the industry wanna get really mad at those technicians for doing that or not following the process, and I can see both sides, but I mean, here's the thing.
[01:20:27] Jeff Compton: If it-- let's say it's not ADAS. Let's just say it's an alignment. Look at how long it takes you to do an alignment on some of these cars now. Before we even bring the ADAS in, let's look at some of these high-end European cars and look at what the real time is to do an alignment. It's not an hour job. Yeah.
[01:20:42] Jeff Compton: You know, so much more. Well, if we can't even get people to pay more money for the alignment, you're not gonna get them to pay more money for the ADAS. Because when the alignment's off, they'll definitely be able to tell you that it's off. "Oh, it won't track. I go, you know, drift. The steering wheel's not straight," blah, blah, blah.
[01:21:01] Jeff Compton: Where depending on how they drive, the ADAS could be off, and they might never even know until that one time that they've got the cruise on, and it's late at night, and they're driving, and, you know, it's dark, and, you know, they come up on somebody that they don't see 'cause they looked behind them for a second, or the child in the back, or nodded off, who knows?
[01:21:20] Jeff Compton: Well, they just... What happens? Big fiery crash? Like, and then who does-- like, how do you say? The, the forensics to be able to go back and actually point the finger at who's responsible for that, um, Richard Falco was talking just the other day, it's still gonna be very hard to be able to blame that on the last person that calibrated it.
[01:21:39] Jeff Compton: But it's something we all have to think about, so I, I think it's gonna be, you know, going forward, a lot of us technicians are gonna have to take the, the advoc- advocacy stance and say, "No, this is the right thing to do, and if I'm gonna do it, I have to do it the right way, and you have to pay me for it, or else I don't wanna touch it because, you know, I'm liable."
[01:22:05] Jeff Compton: Um-
[01:22:05] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[01:22:07] Jeff Compton: You know? Does that scare you?
[01:22:11] Sean Pierce: To have the liability come back?
[01:22:13] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:22:14] Sean Pierce: Uh, yeah, a little bit. I mean, that's, I mean, it's, I guess it's no different than doing brakes or whatever.
[01:22:21] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:22:21] Sean Pierce: But I mean, it's, you know, they, the government got mad when you would take TPMS off, and that was just a warning sensor, so you're starting to miscalibrate or just not, not be able to care the...
[01:22:38] Sean Pierce: Or not care, uh, not get the time that you say to do the job properly. Uh, yeah. That's coming back on you is, is a pretty big fear.
[01:22:48] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
[01:22:49] Sean Pierce: So hoping that it, it doesn't come down to that, but then, you know, you hear about it and you're like, "Was that something that I did?"
[01:22:58] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah, 'cause I'm still the same way.
[01:23:02] Jeff Compton: Like I, I'm pretty good for remembering cars when I see them, license plates and stuff in my parking lot, and I know what I worked on it last, and it might've been three, four months ago, but I'm asking like, "What's that here for?" 'Cause you know, it, it might've been like an intermittent problem, and I hadn't seen it in three months, and I was patting myself till my arm was broke on my back thinking I fixed it, and then it's like, "Nope, it's, uh, they're hearing it again."
[01:23:24] Jeff Compton: Or, or, "Oh, no, remember that stall? Yeah, it happened again." You know, and then you're like, "Ugh." So you know, I don't, I don't s- I'm, I'm not kept awake at night anymore like I used to be. But, uh, that being said, you know, when we get into more and more, like we take a bumper off to put a condenser in, you know, and, and you know, you can tell everybody in the world that, you know, "Okay, you need to go get a calibration done, but we don't do that here.
[01:23:55] Jeff Compton: So you know, you need to call this person and, uh, make this appointment, and it's gonna cost X." And they go, "Okay." And they drive out of there not understanding a word you said, and then something happens. Who's at fault? I mean, you could make- Yeah ... the argument that like really how we should handle that is built it into the estimate when we gave them the estimate to put the condenser in and, and that's the right thing to do, and then sublet it out ourself and then...
[01:24:26] Jeff Compton: Yeah, we should do that that way. But then there's always somebody that's like David Roman says, they don't read the service information, they don't read the flipping manual, as Brian says, and they don't know, and they take it apart, and no warning light comes on. They give it back to the customer, and everybody's thinking they're completely fine, and then something happens, you know?
[01:24:47] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[01:24:47] Jeff Compton: Um, that's what scares me. That's what scares me. So you know, we, we, we've always had a big responsibility in this industry to do things right so that people are safe, but I think as we keep adding more layers to it, it be- keeps coming... The onion gets bigger. You know? What, um, what frustrates you about the job?
[01:25:12] Jeff Compton: Like we kinda talked about the parts thing. Is that the biggest frustration right now for you?
[01:25:20] Sean Pierce: Uh- Yeah, I guess the part thing would be, I mean, luckily we use like NAP on Worldpac, so there is some labor kickback. It takes time, and then you gotta do the right steps to, to get it approved and stuff, which is good.
[01:25:36] Sean Pierce: But it's still, it's still frustrating when you've changed the part three or four times- Mm-hmm ... and keep using the same part because it has the warranty on it- Yeah ... rather than just upgrading to now we've had time, we could have gotten an OEM part. Um-
[01:25:53] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[01:25:55] Sean Pierce: that, I, I, I would say that or, uh, sometimes there's like a lack of ambition of wanting to-
[01:26:11] Sean Pierce: To perform the steps correctly.
[01:26:13] Jeff Compton: Right.
[01:26:14] Sean Pierce: So that's, that's a little frustrating to see because, like, you know that if it were you, like it would... Th- those are the steps that you would do to get to that conclusion, and then somebody else does it and you're like, "Well, I don't understand, like, why you didn't go in this-"
[01:26:35] Jeff Compton: Yeah
[01:26:36] Sean Pierce: like, sometimes the service manual specifically says, it goes through the steps. They just ignore the service manual, don't look at it, try to do what they can, which is fine. You don't learn unless you try.
[01:26:47] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:26:48] Sean Pierce: But I guess that would be, like, the lack of ambition or seeing it as there's no, I guess, no heart in it.
[01:26:57] Sean Pierce: Like, you just see it as a job.
[01:26:59] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:27:00] Sean Pierce: So, like, I work on cars all day. I get home, I have two project cars I work on.
[01:27:08] Jeff Compton: Okay,
[01:27:09] Sean Pierce: cool. And when I get done with that, I watch car YouTube stuff. So I'm in it as a mechanic. I- Yeah ... I've always been into cars, so my heart is into cars. So I see this as a career, but I also still really enjoy it.
[01:27:29] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:27:29] Sean Pierce: Uh, and some people just see it as a job, which is fine. They don't have to be into it like I am. So it's not, it's not every day that, yeah, you wanna spend 20 hours a day working on cars, looking at cars, watching car stuff, so.
[01:27:49] Jeff Compton: Yeah, I, I was like you. Uh, I was a completely up with it, right? Like I, I was...
[01:27:55] Jeff Compton: Before I had a driver's license, I was reading Hot Rod Magazine and I was watching, you know, all the car shows. And then I'm gonna really date myself, you know, like, uh, it went from watching, you know, the national network on Saturday mornings with the, all the car shows to then it was like Monster Garage with Jesse James and, you know-
Oh,
[01:28:12] Sean Pierce: yeah
[01:28:13] Jeff Compton: uh, all this kind of stuff. And it's like, I just, I just was always around it. And now sometimes I sit there and I think like I've lost some of my fire or I lost some of my passion for it. And then I remember that, like, it hasn't that it's gone away, it's just kind of changed. It's shifted to what I'm doing now, which is having these conversations, right?
[01:28:33] Jeff Compton: And it's like-
[01:28:34] Sean Pierce: Yeah ...
[01:28:35] Jeff Compton: you know, uh, we were joking the other day, like some guy went by with something with a really loud exhaust on it, and the old me is like, "What a moron." Like, sh- you know, can't even... I've gotta talk louder now because this dickhead is going by, y-you know, with straight pipes on his motorcycle or something.
[01:28:52] Jeff Compton: But then what's like, we go and pull this Demon Challenger into the shop, uh, because we're trying to sell it for a customer, sublet, and, you know, the salesman pulls it in and then just wraps the throttle four or five times, right, wide open throttle, and it sounds awesome. And I'm like, "That's cool as hell."
[01:29:08] Jeff Compton: So I mean, you know, uh, I think it's more of a timing thing for me and a perspective thing 'cause it's like I don't... You know, do I sit there as much as I used to when I was a kid and stare at the high-performance stuff? No. I'm, you know... Project cars to me don't really interest me anymore and, you know, uh, like high performance, I just look at it and I go, "High cost," you know?
[01:29:31] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Uh, even me, like as a Jeep guy, I look at these trail rigs and I go, "Ugh, I wouldn't even wanna drive that," you know? Meanwhile, it's so capable in its element that it's cool as hell. But I'm like, "Oh, all I see is that as I see it was work." But then I realize that, like, I get on here and have these conversations sometimes, like I'm talking six, seven hours a week about our industry and what we're doing and all that kind of stuff.
[01:29:57] Jeff Compton: Some people wouldn't wanna have 20 minutes of that conversation before they'd be so frustrated or bored. So I think it's not that I've lost the fire. It's just shifted. It's changed, right? So I'm glad that you're, you're still, I guess I'll say ate up in it because it's like, you know, I c- I can't find the motivation to go out and like, you know, change the front brakes on my Jeep right now in my own driveway.
[01:30:21] Jeff Compton: Like, I can't find that anymore. I'm just like, "I'll make time one day at, when I'm at the shop," you know?
[01:30:27] Sean Pierce: Yeah. '
[01:30:27] Jeff Compton: Cause I don't wanna... Like, I'm like, "Oh, get down on my hands and knees in the driveway?" No, I don't wanna do that. But, you know, the, the 30-year-old me would've been like, "Oh yeah, no problem. Two hours, done," you know?
[01:30:40] Jeff Compton: The 50-year-old me is like, "It's also a beautiful day, man, and I can like go, you know, launch the boat and, and fish."
[01:30:49] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[01:30:49] Jeff Compton: So I- I- ... instead, you know
[01:30:52] Sean Pierce: Like, I have a lift here at the house- Okay ... that I put in when we moved here, and I still, like you said, just do it at the shop.
[01:31:00] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:31:01] Sean Pierce: When, if it's something easy, I'm like, "Ah, I just don't feel like pulling it in, putting it up, dragging tools from the garage to the shop."
[01:31:08] Sean Pierce: So, uh, I, yeah, I can see that. I'm at the shop, I'm already dirty. Yeah. Let's go ahead and, let's go ahead and just do it then.
[01:31:18] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Knock it, one extra hour, you know, well, I'm already dirty, I'm not at home. So, uh, like, with the hoist at home, that's mostly for your project cars. You're not, you don't find yourself having to do side work or stuff like that or?
[01:31:31] Sean Pierce: Uh, I don't do it as much. When we moved here, uh, the last house we were at, we were, like, in, in town, so- Mm-hmm ... I would do nights, weekends.
[01:31:43] Jeff Compton: Really?
[01:31:43] Sean Pierce: And it was a word-of-mouth business, and it was pretty good. But moving out here, I'm, you know, 15, 20 minutes off the main road-
[01:31:54] Jeff Compton: Right ...
[01:31:54] Sean Pierce: and about 30 miles from a town, so it's hard to, to get people to come out here.
[01:32:01] Sean Pierce: It's usually friends and friends of friends now that are doing it, but it's not like a, a full-time side job. Mm-hmm. So I've thought about doing mobile mechanic, 'cause there's, I'm out where there's a bunch of ranchers.
[01:32:16] Jeff Compton: Right.
[01:32:16] Sean Pierce: So, and with us being, you know, 25, 30 minutes from town, it's kinda hard for them to get away.
[01:32:24] Sean Pierce: So I've looked into doing the trailer and- Mm-hmm ... slowly doing weekends and offering what I can. But I'm 44, so to start, uh, working full time and then doing full time at night, and with the animals that we have and my wife, it's, you know, that's a lot of work.
[01:32:45] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:32:45] Sean Pierce: To-
[01:32:46] Jeff Compton: Now, are you hoping at some point to be your own businessman, your own boss?
[01:32:51] Jeff Compton: Is that kinda the appeal? I mean,
[01:32:54] Sean Pierce: yeah, before we moved, I mean, yeah, before I moved, I was gonna build a shop at the house and just do that. It was to the point where I could have done that.
[01:33:05] Jeff Compton: Right.
[01:33:05] Sean Pierce: Uh, but moving out here and having to start over, it's a, it's a little tough. Uh, I'd like to do it, or even the last shop I was at, I took the job specifically to take over the company 'cause the owner wanted to retire.
[01:33:20] Sean Pierce: Mm-hmm. And then after two and a half years, he says, "I wanna go another five years."
[01:33:24] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:33:25] Sean Pierce: I didn't really wanna wait that much longer to take it over. Um, but I think that's, um, most people wanna try and get it in themselves, and I would love to do that. I've, you know- am able to keep myself busy enough, then yeah, that would be the goal.
[01:33:43] Jeff Compton: Yeah. I, I can tell you that, like, I, I feel like at 50, like, that ship has sailed for me. Other people tell me that, "No, you still have lots of time, and you should." And then other parts of me are just like, "Nah." You know, like I'm, I'm, I'm good where I am. Like, I'm making good money where I work. You know, the podcast, it, it's a pretty flexible schedule.
[01:34:06] Jeff Compton: That's the main thing, right? Like, I've had other offers, and people, you know, still shoot me a message probably once a month saying, you know, "We're hiring. You know, heard about you. We'd like you to come on." And it's like, it sounds good until they talk about, "Well, we're open Saturdays."
[01:34:23] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[01:34:24] Jeff Compton: Yeah, that's a, that's a no for me.
[01:34:26] Jeff Compton: Or, or, you know, "We work on this pay plan." And I'm like, "Mm, that's a no for me." Um, you know, or it's like, "We, we wanna work into these type of cars." And I'm like, "Mm, no, that's a no for me too." Because based on how- Yeah ... the other two may work, I... So I don't know if I'm in my coasting phase of my career. I probably am.
[01:34:50] Jeff Compton: Um, but you know, it's not a lack of passion. It's just like I know what I know, and I know what I'm good at, and I know what I'm comfortable with. And I think that that's like, it took me a long time to get to that kind of comfort and, and knowledge. And, and, uh, I think as we age sometimes, you know- I think we're, uh, slowly we're conditioning ourselves sometimes by the way we ingest information too, that we're changing the way we learn.
[01:35:23] Jeff Compton: And I know 30-year-old me could learn really effectively and really fast, and 50-year-old me, man, it's like s- weapons grade ADHD. Like, I get so distracted now, and it's so hard to focus and, you know, um, I don't know what's caused that. I don't know if it's TikTok brain, as David Roman says, or, you know- Oh, yeah
[01:35:47] Jeff Compton: too much doom scrolling or what, but I find that it's just like I can learn when I'm at work, I'm learning on a job, but it's really hard now to come home and, like, put in that other 40 hours that, like, my friend Brian talks about that makes you exceptional. Like, I can put in 10 to 20, no problem. But, you know, hypothetically round numbers, right?
[01:36:09] Jeff Compton: But that full whatever, like the, the way I used to be ate up with this where it's like no car was gonna kick my butt and I had to know everything and I'm just not there anymore, you know? Um, I still don't give up at work, but I say that I don't give up work because I'm more, I already know that's not me.
[01:36:30] Jeff Compton: That one that you're coming in and you want, I already know that's not me. I'm not your guy. So maybe that's just the difference now. I'm not sure. So do you feel like that, that you're getting that way?
[01:36:44] Sean Pierce: I mean, still like the challenge, but yeah, there's, you know, when I've looked at jobs, it's like, yeah, I don't really wanna work on domestics that much anymore. Or- Okay ... yeah, it's, it's, you know, beyond my scope, and yeah, I don't wanna learn that. Mm-hmm. Or I've made it this far and I haven't had to learn that, so what's the, what's, why add to it?
[01:37:06] Sean Pierce: But, um, I think keeping myself busy helps with staying focused more.
[01:37:16] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:37:17] Sean Pierce: Uh, but when it shuts off, then I'm just like, "What do I do?" Like- Just because I've done, or I consistently just keep myself busy with cars, and then I'm like, "I should shut it off," then what do I do? I sit around and try and figure out, like, a new hobby or something.
[01:37:37] Sean Pierce: But I'm already, like, keeping busy with this stuff.
[01:37:41] Jeff Compton: Now let me ask you, 'cause I don't wanna keep you all night long, but let me ask you then, the young people that are coming in, Sean, do you feel like they're different than you and I when we came in, and do you feel like they have to be as eaten up as, about this as, as you are to be successful, or do you think that they can...
[01:38:02] Jeff Compton: Like, are they gonna be unsuccessful if they're not? Like,
[01:38:09] Sean Pierce: what do you- No, I don't think they have, I don't think they have to. I, I've worked with people that could just care less-
[01:38:15] Jeff Compton: Okay ...
[01:38:15] Sean Pierce: about cars after work. Right. But they're really good at what, what they're doing. They're, you know, um-
[01:38:25] Sean Pierce: I think, I don't think that like, like you said, watch- growing up and watching like David Stacey or Gears or whatever, I don't think that's around anymore. It's mostly like you said, TikTok. It's-
[01:38:37] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[01:38:38] Sean Pierce: 30 seconds, two minutes, whatever.
[01:38:40] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:38:40] Sean Pierce: Uh, so their attention to that stuff That short of a time. Like, it's just, that's how much they think about it, so- Yeah
[01:38:50] Sean Pierce: uh, but I still think there's, like- There's gonna be a generation that's, it's all gonna be Com, like com-computer based or, um It just won't be part of the car, like the car part of it. It's just gonna be another machine-
[01:39:14] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ...
[01:39:15] Sean Pierce: for them to, to, to figure out and If they don't
[01:39:26] Sean Pierce: I think it need, like, it needs to keep them busy enough to, to keep their mind stimulated, but I don't think it needs to, to be able to take up all their time.
[01:39:37] Jeff Compton: Right.
[01:39:38] Sean Pierce: Because there, there are starting to be like us, where, um, like you said, like not, not consuming your life, and this is what I like to work on, this is what...
[01:39:48] Sean Pierce: So there's gonna be those more specific people that I see on, like, Indeed and stuff.
[01:39:55] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:39:55] Sean Pierce: You drive around and only do ADOS.
[01:39:58] Jeff Compton: Yes.
[01:39:59] Sean Pierce: So they're not having to be like ASE and do all eight sections or 10 or whatever it is now, uh, so they can focus on just one part of it.
[01:40:12] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. What, uh, in closing, what do you think is the biggest obstacle right now with the, the young people and the shortage?
[01:40:22] Jeff Compton: Like, what do you think is the main contributing factor, and how do we, how do we get through it?
[01:40:31] Sean Pierce: I would say that people are having a hard time getting in because there's no... Because there is a shortage. There's not... They wanna get a body inside.
[01:40:41] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:40:42] Sean Pierce: And that person doesn't have necessarily the right training, or they don't wanna spend the time to train them, so they're getting into it a- and, like, making mistakes and then getting, you know, yelled at for making that mistake, but they were never taught the right way to do it.
[01:41:00] Sean Pierce: Uh, I think that, that, I mean, that would scare me away -
[01:41:08] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[01:41:08] Sean Pierce: because I wasn't properly trained. But then there's also, like, when I went to school, there was, like, there were trade schools, and around here they're starting to close up. Mm-hmm. Teachers are retiring. Nobody wants to fill back in the space.
[01:41:23] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:41:23] Sean Pierce: So there's no, there's less classes. And when, even when I took it back in 2011, the, one of the teachers retired after being a teacher for 30 years, and they could never fill a spot, so they just ended that program altogether. Yeah. And it took me seven semesters to get into the program. So I did all my prereqs before, but I kept trying to get into that program every single quarter, and it turned it in, like, "Sorry, I can only do a lottery because so many people wanna get in this class."
[01:41:53] Sean Pierce: So there's not, like- Yeah ... stable teaching out there anymore. And then the Somebody might not wanna go through that whole process of waiting to get into a class. They'll just find the next thing that's relevant to that field. So if we could get more programs like what we have, where you start as a lube tech, if you can get them in early enough or, you know, we do working interviews to see what you're capable of doing.
[01:42:25] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:42:27] Sean Pierce: I think if more shops did that, and not necessarily, like, just having them come in and, you know... My shop pays for working interviews- Right ... so you're not getting tooken advantage of, and that way he knows that he's wanting to invest in you to see what you're doing, if you're capable of doing it So it's not like a time waster on both sides.
[01:42:53] Sean Pierce: I want you to work with us for the day so we both can-- you can see how we work and we can see how you work, and we're willing to pay you to not just waste your time.
[01:43:06] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:43:08] Sean Pierce: And not, you know, you're not just doing an interview to make it look like it, we can't find anybody. So I think if more shops did that, then you might have a better candidate pool
[01:43:21] Jeff Compton: Yeah, I think, I think like what you've got where you're working right now, I think is, is a testament to your boss and the ability that he understands, you know, there's a sequence and a, and a pathway for a young hire to come in and become very successful in this industry.
[01:43:37] Jeff Compton: And I think that that's a really good... You know, he represents, I think, a great ideal about what we have to do going forward. And I mean, it's a funny thing, we get talking, everybody wants certifications or everybody doesn't want certifications, but they say they're coming and, you know, uh, ASE, you know, got, uh, purchased by WrenchWay and all this kind of stuff.
[01:44:00] Jeff Compton: And I mean, you know, I don't even really know what that looks like. And, um, you know, ASE where I am is not a thing. But certification and, and government licensing where I am is very much a thing. It's the only thing. Um- Yeah ... and I-- You know, it's not a fix. I gotta keep saying that. It doesn't fix all the problems, man.
[01:44:21] Jeff Compton: Not even close. Um, you know, it doesn't-- I don't even think it necessarily brings up average technician competency. But I c- I only say that because I'm not exposed to too many technicians that didn't go through the program, so I can't say. Now, if-- And again, the, the people outside of my country that I network with, we're talking less than 5%.
[01:44:45] Jeff Compton: So they're already the, you know, the people that are like involved in this podcast and, you know, involved in the groups of how you and I come to know each other and all that kind of jazz, we're talk- They're the 5%, they're the outliers already. So, you know, if I can interact with more people that didn't have the kinda the background that I did and how we had to come up or how you came up, maybe I could make the argument that yes, you definitely need certification 'cause it keeps these, this level from, you know, down.
[01:45:14] Jeff Compton: But I don't think so. I think it comes back to drive and ability and ambition and enthusiasm and the want to be good and the want to not have it beat you, you know, the car. And I think, uh, if we can get more people in with that kind of passion, and we don't grind them up and spit them out and run them through, you know, the gauntlet of, of, of really high incentivized flat rate pay, I think we fix this because I think like the buzzword's culture, but it's really the culture of the industry is the culture of the industry.
[01:45:54] Jeff Compton: It already is what it is. And I mean, everybody I think knows what it is. And it's not looking real great right now, but it's looking better because we're having a conversation. And so- Yeah ... you know, I think what we have to do is just continue to stay the course of recognizing where we're failing and then talking about it, and then starting to implement little changes Um, that address it and try to do something good because, like, you know, for it being called the Jaded Mechanic Podcast, I'm not the jaded guy that everybody thinks I am.
[01:46:29] Jeff Compton: But what I am is somebody that, like, has had a lot of talk with a lot of people about where they were and are and headed and what they love about this, and I can tell you that, like, there's a lot of people that, like, they stayed in it because there was something in them that kept them in it, and it was that resiliency to, "I have to know.
[01:46:55] Jeff Compton: I have to fix it." And I, I don't think you can teach that, but I think we can make it a lot more enticing to people where they want to be that, and then, you know, you're gonna find those people that have that kind of attribute, and they're gonna just gravitate towards us, and it's just gonna take time.
[01:47:12] Jeff Compton: It's not a money thing. You know, people s- uh, every comment, every Short is it is, it's just a pay thing. The pay is the pay, and it's... But if you feel good about what you do, like if you go home at the end of the day and you feel that reward that you, we had that eureka moment, and you fixed that car, and you got paid well, it's not really about the pay then.
[01:47:38] Jeff Compton: You know? Yes, you have to be paid well, but it's not like you have to be paid more than your, you know, neighbor that does drywall or your cousin that does, you know, plumbing. You just, that euphoria of being that endorphin kick is the culture, and then the pay will be good, and it may not be the best, but it will be something that I think most of us can be happy in.
[01:48:06] Jeff Compton: And, you know, if we can get that and sell that to the young people, I think we're gonna do good. So what, um, closing thoughts, Sean? What do you think, man? Where do you wanna be in two years?
[01:48:22] Sean Pierce: Uh
[01:48:26] Sean Pierce: I would say, like I've, uh, wanting to get into the ADOS stuff a little more, so learning that will, will be a challenge with not having the ability to, like, put it down. Uh, so but, you know, I, I hope to be at the same place. Uh, I've been there for three and a half years and, uh, it's like you say, he, he has great culture, the training's great.
[01:48:56] Sean Pierce: You know, he pays for us to go to trainings, the outside Outside of the shop, you know, we're all friends. We hang out with each other. We do, like, excursions with the shop. So the culture's there, and having that as like a, a stepping stone, like not having to worry about that stuff allows me to be able to want to go out and, and advance my knowledge some more.
[01:49:27] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm.
[01:49:27] Sean Pierce: Um, but being able to figure out where I should branch that to is gonna be based off how am I, am I gonna be able to apply it.
[01:49:35] Jeff Compton: Yeah.
[01:49:36] Sean Pierce: So I hope to, once I start to figure it out, feed him and hope that he wants to do the next step and bring it on or try it or, you know. He's in a network with a bunch of other small shops.
[01:49:51] Sean Pierce: Maybe they have that ability there that we could go and-
[01:49:54] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[01:49:55] Sean Pierce: try it. So, um, but besides that, it's just like- more outdoor stuff, like camping, hunting, and all that. Yeah. Uh, we moved to like a part of the state that it's, you know, there's thousands of lakes around here, plenty of places to go camping when it's not on fire, so.
[01:50:19] Sean Pierce: Hoping to spend more time outside-
[01:50:21] Jeff Compton: Yeah ...
[01:50:21] Sean Pierce: in the next two years and explore, like, what's around us.
[01:50:26] Jeff Compton: It's good for the peace of mind, isn't it, when you're out in nature? That's what I've found, you know.
[01:50:31] Sean Pierce: Yep.
[01:50:31] Jeff Compton: 100%. Like, it, it's... Nothing's better to recharge me than to just, uh, you know, reconnect, like, just get out in nature and get away from the noise and, and fish.
[01:50:42] Jeff Compton: You know, it's, it's such a simple, simple activity. Uh, and it's not a cheap activity, although it doesn't have to be as expensive as I make it. But, um, you know, it's definitely something about it, and that's what I just tell everybody is, is you can be ate up with cars, it's all good, you know. But make sure that you're able to unplug from the job and, and keep that passion alive because I think that that's how you're, you have a long, successful career in this.
[01:51:09] Jeff Compton: And, um, you know, Sean, I wanna, I wanna thank you for coming on today. I don't wanna keep any more of your time. Um, I'd love to see you guys, if you and your s- your boss can make it to an, a, a destination event, I think that'd be really cool. Um, I think you guys would love it. You know, we've got one coming up.
[01:51:26] Jeff Compton: Uh, ASTA's really, really coming up fast. We're, you know- Yeah ... just about two months away for that. And then, you know- Oh, geez ... I'll, I'll be at SEMA Apex in Vegas in November, so you know, that's... A- a- somebody that's been a car guy their whole life like you, uh, I tell everybody that's one trip everybody should make once, is just seeing- Yeah
[01:51:48] Jeff Compton: see it, experience it. Uh, it's an expensive trip. Vegas is not a cheap city. Yeah. But it's not as bad as everybody makes it out to be is my point. And, um, you know- I
[01:51:58] Sean Pierce: mean, what you get out of it is worth it, I would assume at that point. I haven't made it there, but yeah, I've always wanted to go there. I've worked at shops that have, like, tried to get in there.
[01:52:07] Sean Pierce: A buddy that works at a shop, and he's like, "I'll get you on payroll, and we'll get you in there." But, uh, it w- I think it would be worth it at some point to, to make it. It can relight
[01:52:16] Jeff Compton: your pa-
[01:52:17] Sean Pierce: Yeah.
[01:52:19] Jeff Compton: Yeah. It can relight your passion, for sure. So anyway, Sean, I wanna thank you for being here today. I gotta let you go.
[01:52:26] Jeff Compton: Um, I don't wanna... You know, it's been a long day, and um, please reach out to me. Keep me informed on what's going on, you know. Uh, we'll, we'll have you back again. I'd love to continue to see where you are, you know. Uh, if I can reach out to anybody, you know, if you need a hand in trying to figure out how you dip your toe into the ADAS thing, get ahold of me, and I'll be able to point you in the direction of people that have done it.
[01:52:51] Jeff Compton: And, um, you know- That'd be
[01:52:52] Sean Pierce: great.
[01:52:53] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Thank you again for coming on here today. I really appreciate it. Um, to my family at, you know, uh, Launch Tech USA and Tech Metric, thank you guys for everything you do for us. Um, you make this all possible And, um, I hope to see a lot of you at AUST and again at Apex, you know.
[01:53:10] Jeff Compton: And, and if you can't make it to one of those two shows, but, you know, try to make it to a show. Uh, I think you'll find that it'll really recharge your batteries and, and really, you know, if you're missing some of that passion, it, it's a great way to reignite, reignite it. So everybody, thank you very much. I love you, and we'll talk to you soon.
[01:53:30] Jeff Compton: Sean, thank you, brother.
[01:53:32] Sean Pierce: Thank you
[01:53:35] Jeff Compton: Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change.
[01:53:55] Jeff Compton: Thank you to my partners in the ASAP group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10 millimeter, and we'll see you all again next time.