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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
Host: You're listening to a minisode of The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. We've taken your most thought-provoking questions from our most popular episodes to bring you the answers you're looking for. Let's get right into it.
Co-Host: Selena from Instagram—shout out, by the way, shout out, guys, from Instagram. Thank you for sending your questions in there, we love to hear them. But Selena said, "Is marriage supposed to take precedence over the children? It's innately hard to do this because our children often feel like our hearts outside of our bodies. What does this look like in day-to-day life, and can you give examples of how we put our marriage first?"
Matthew Stephen Brown: Yeah. Man, that's a great question, Selena, and I appreciate your honesty. And I think for most women, this is a challenge for them more so than men. There have been rare circumstances where I think the guy is more in love with the kids than the wife, that does happen, but usually it tends to be a female problem in the marriage. And that's just because God designed women to be more maternal, right? So the baby, cooks—I know that's the wrong word—inside you for nine months, so you're feeling it, you're growing it, you risk your life to bring them into this world, and so there's a connection there. And then breastfeeding actually connects you in a very, very powerful way with your child.
So what I would say is, it's important to kind of segregate those ideas. I don't love my wife more than my kids, I love my wife differently than my kids. And so I don't want to rank it in terms of importance, I want to rank it in terms of difference, okay? I think that that's really, really important to say. For me to say that I love God more than my wife, what I would say is I love God differently than my wife.
In the Bible, there's multiple types of love. In English we have one word for love, but in the Scriptures there's agape love (God love), phileo (brotherly love), eros (erotic/passionate love). And the Greeks understood—and there's a word that's escaping my mind that's actually your love for your children, a compound word in Greek that starts with an 'H' if you guys want to find that in the notes—it's only listed one or two times in Scripture.
The Bible differentiates in kinds of love, and it's important that we differentiate in kinds of love. I love our church deeply, but my love for my church is different than my love for you kids, and different than my love for my wife. Just to put that in perspective, I give 10% of my income to the church—I tithe, I believe in tithing—but I give 90% to my family. You kids are my priority, my wife is my priority, so 90% of my attention goes there. Mathematically, it just doesn't square to say I love them in the same way. Even when I die, 10% of our estate is going to go to Sandals Church because when I'm in heaven I still want my money working on earth for Jesus, but 90% is going to go to you guys.
Love for children is different. You just had your first child, my grandson, and everybody asks me, "Do I love him more than I love you guys?" No! It's different. My heart grew a new category as grandpa, and that's different than dad. The way I relate to him is different because he's little, has more needs, and needs more help, whereas you're an able-bodied, almost 30-year-old amazing woman. He is just barely one and has a death wish everywhere he goes and walks!
Easy love is when people need us. A lot of parents can't let their kids grow up or mature because we only know how to love people that need us, which keeps our love from maturing. You had one kind of love for your husband when you dated—captivating, powerful, willing to change who you live with for the rest of your life. But it's different than birthing and loving a child who needs you for everything when your husband does not.
Your mom and I used to have this fight where she'd say, "I want you to need me the way I need you," and I said, "I want you, but I don't look at you as a need, I look at you as a want." I don't want you to love me because you need me—that feels transactional; I want you to love me because you choose me.
If you put your kids first, your marriage will be last, and it won't last. I see this all the time. Your husband may not tell you, but he will grow bitter, cold, and move on. When your husband comes home from work, get up, kiss him, greet him, and say thank you. It takes a team: someone makes money, someone is primarily there for the kid, and we need to appreciate each other's roles.
Selena, you need to start talking about it: "How can we prioritize our marriage as a different form of love?" Because when the kids leave, if you don't work on that, there won't be anything there. The fastest-growing area of divorce is called "silver" or "gray" divorces—people married 30 or 35 years who suddenly split.
Love needs to move from immaturity (attraction-based) to appreciation (Godly-based). The primary motivator of our marriage early on was attraction, whereas now it's appreciation. I appreciate her, love her, want her, and even need her now in a way I didn't early on.
Love your kids, but differentiate it and make sure you create a unique category for your husband. If you don't prioritize your marriage, no one will. Find things that are playful and fun.
Co-Host: Yeah, we had this conversation last week about what our priorities are and what we need to shift because the last year has been pure survival mode for me. For the dad, life can stay somewhat normal, but for the mom, her world is turned completely upside down. We've had a lot of talks about him reminiscing about life before kids versus me focusing on moving forward.
For Selena, coming together is so important, but make sure your definitions are the same. Every time my husband and I fight, we realize afterward that we were using words differently (like what "quality time" means to each of us).
Also, don't be beholden to what your marriage was before kids. A marriage therapist on a podcast said: "Every time you have a kid, your old marriage dies, and a new marriage begins, and you have to work on that." Realizing you get a clean slate with each kid takes so much pressure off.
Matthew Stephen Brown: One of the big lies of our culture is that we can do all things and have it all. Marriage isn't just an addition to your dating life, just like Christianity isn't just adding Jesus to your old life. The Gospel says the old must die for the new relationship to begin. Marriage is a completely new category—the two become one flesh.
If you learn to appreciate what was, grieve it, and move forward, you'll find yourself. You can't just keep adding major life decisions or endless activities (soccer, baseball, basketball) or you'll go insane, stop parenting, lose your marriage, and become an Uber driver!
Co-Host: Thank you for listening! We hope this conversation helped you grow in your faith. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe on YouTube. You can also stay connected on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. We'll see you next time right here on The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown!