Interested in building your own SaaS company? Follow the journey of Transistor.fm as they bootstrap a podcast hosting startup.
Jon:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to build your SaaS. This is the behind the scenes story of building a web app in 2020. I'm John Buda, a software engineer.
Justin:
And I'm Justin Jackson. I do product and marketing. Follow along as we build transistor.fm. You noticed that Chris last time did a little max headroom on that Yeah. Transition.
Justin:
I don't know. It was pretty fun. I like I like those little touches.
Jon:
Uh-huh. He's good at that.
Justin:
I I heard a interesting idea from Ben Ornstein on the Art of Product podcast. They he's reading this book on being a better CEO. And one of the things that the CEO CEO recommended were these, reviews you can do with another person, whether it's a business partner or a direct report. Basically, what you do is you say, I like it when blank, and then, I wish blank. And so as an example, you might you might say, oh, actually, what was the example that he gave?
Justin:
You know, I like it when Ben tweets about Tuple to his audience. I wish that Ben would spend more time on Tuple calls with our customers was some of the feedback he got from his 2 partners. And so, basically, the format is these these things get written into a doc, and then the person who received the feedback and you can imagine how scary this would be in some ways. The person who received the feedback reads it out, and they reiterate it in their own words to ensure that the person who wrote it, that's actually what they meant. Right?
Jon:
Mhmm.
Justin:
Because you might be like, I wish that Justin's breath didn't stink so bad. And then I could read it, and you'd be like, wait. No. That's not what I meant. What I meant was I wish that Justin would answer my poll requests faster.
Jon:
That
Justin:
would be quite a departure. But That
Jon:
would be. Also, I have no idea where your breath smells like. So
Justin:
Chris ends at this funny tweet where where he was like, does anybody else, like, watch a YouTube video? And as they're watching this talking head go, I'll bet you their breath smells real bad. I never thought of that, but now I'm gonna think of that all the time. Anyway, so, they reiterate it in their own words. And then they have to decide if they accept that feedback or not.
Justin:
And so, like in my case, maybe you say, Justin, I wish that you answered my poll requests faster.
Jon:
Mhmm.
Justin:
I can either accept that feedback or say, no. I I don't accept that feedback. If I accept it, then you and I would make a plan together for how we're going to address that feedback. So maybe we would say, let's, like you might say, you know, if you could get back to my pull requests within the hour, that would be perfect. And I would say, you know what?
Justin:
I think I can do that. Let's try that for a month, and then, you know, in a in a month time, we'll do this again, and we'll decide if this was helpful. So he said it was an interesting experience, because of, you know, he was scared going into it.
Jon:
Right. Yeah. That's some, that's some extreme vulnerability you're opening yourself up to. Yeah. Well, how how big is it?
Jon:
Is it just 2 of them?
Justin:
It's 3 of them.
Jon:
Okay.
Justin:
And he was more concerned he was less concerned for himself about the feedback he would get and more concerned about the feedback he was giving and that they would be offended. But I can see
Jon:
It it yeah. Is part of the exercise just like beforehand trying to, make sure that people just aren't offended? Like, it's not meant to be offensive?
Justin:
It's not meant to I mean, it's it's meant to clear the air. It's meant to it's meant to address things that might be simmering that would be difficult to just bring up in conversation. And it has the benefit of both having this, you know, articulating encouragement, like, that you might not normally articulate. But at the same time being able to go, this bugs me or this Right. I wish that, you know, Justin would stop doing this or start doing this or would be more sensitive about this or what whatever it would be.
Justin:
And he reports that he was nervous going into it, but after they had a sense of just lightness. Like the the air had been cleared. There was no kind of weight anymore on them. Mhmm. Anyway, I thought it was interesting.
Justin:
It might be something you and I should try at some point.
Jon:
It sounds like what I was doing in my last job for, you know, biweekly reviews of people. Mhmm.
Justin:
It was,
Jon:
like, similar type of stuff.
Justin:
Yeah. And and and how was that?
Jon:
It's tough. Okay. It's it's hard to, yeah, it's hard to get used to and We because you become friends of these people, and then then you have to tell them what they're doing that, you know, can be improved. Or
Justin:
Yeah. That their breath stinks.
Jon:
Right.
Justin:
Did they give you feedback as well? Was that part of I would
Jon:
ask for it, but they they generally didn't have a lot. I think I think this is hard for people to talk about.
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
Yeah. It's, like, really if you're not used to it, it's really hard.
Justin:
Yeah. I was also thinking, I think we can reveal this now. We we've hired somebody on a contract basis to help us with customer support. Yeah. Helen.
Justin:
Helen Ryals. She's awesome. If you see her in the chat, then, there's already I've noticed people are already, saying hi to her. They she she's been responding to so many things. People Yeah.
Justin:
Now know to address her. And I I just did our first kind of phone call with her. She'd been she'd been, you know, working with us on a part time basis for 2 months. And I I basically did everything wrong in that conversation. Mostly because, like, she had to initiate it.
Justin:
So she was the one that said, hey, you know, it's been a couple months. Maybe we should connect and just
Jon:
Right.
Justin:
Talk. So that was mistake number 1. And well, actually, I think once we got into it, it was fine. But, I can see a format like this being helpful in a situation like that as well. Because then it gives you on one hand, you can say, you know, and more specifically, she can say, you know, I like it when you help me this way, but I wish that and that could be anything.
Justin:
That could be, I wish that I had more hours. I wish that I, you know, whatever that is whatever that wish is can be articulated. And so yeah.
Jon:
Yeah. And also yeah. I guess if you have a regular cadence to that too, it it lets you know, it brings issues to the surface before they're a problem.
Justin:
Yeah. I I was even thinking that this might be a good practice to get into in my relationships. I mean, not my real all my relationships, specifically my with my spouse, because you can see how it'd be helpful. You can only choose one thing on both sides. So you can't have a laundry list of, like, everything.
Justin:
Right?
Jon:
Right. The airing of all the grievances at once. Yeah. That would sounds
Justin:
Yeah. Which which is how it normally goes, at least in my experience. Right. It's like something uncorks your fury and then and then it's just everything comes out.
Jon:
Load every right.
Justin:
Yeah. And so this this having a natural cadence whether it's weekly or biweekly or monthly, and then it's you can choose one thing to say, you know, I really do appreciate this about you. Like, this is incredible. And I've I've actually never articulated that. But on the other side, to say, you know, I wish that we could, what would be in our house?
Justin:
I wish that we could process our mail, in a way that didn't leave it on the kitchen counter forever. How how are you at processing mail?
Jon:
There's just yeah. There's piles of it. Things I just don't need. But also should probably shred, but don't have a shredder.
Justin:
So Yeah. Yeah. It just it just stays around forever.
Jon:
Yep.
Justin:
So, anyway, something to think about. I think I I think I'd like to try it with you even though there is a part of me that is nervous about it. It feels like it would be a healthy practice.
Jon:
Yeah. And I thought
Justin:
I'd share with everyone else because yeah. It's, so what are what have you been working on? What what's the update since last week?
Jon:
Mostly let's see. Where was I last week? What were we working on? I think I had had I we had been start let's see. I'd started the Tailwind dashboard.
Jon:
Right? Mhmm. Our new dashboard built on Tailwind CSS. I had been building out some templates outside outside of our main app, our main Rails app, and we kinda went through that stuff a couple times. I went through it earlier this week Mhmm.
Jon:
Kinda to the point where it was like, alright. This is starting to look good. It's actually probably a good time to just integrate all this stuff into our main Rails app.
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
Because then you'll be you'll be working with actual our actual code and our and some actual data, and there's a lot of there's a lot of little edge cases of things that you know, there's, like, conditionals in the templates where, you know, if if your podcast is in this state, then show this. Or if your user account is delinquent, then show this stuff or whatever.
Justin:
Mhmm. And also we it was kind of like we were as we were demoing it, it was like we can't show an upload because it's not in the main app. So why don't we just move it over to the app, put this in a branch, and start playing around with the real deal.
Jon:
Yeah. Yep. So that's what I've been doing this week. And it's been going pretty well.
Justin:
Sorry. There's some construction going on in the background.
Jon:
I'm just expecting some guy to, like,
Jason:
bust to
Jon:
bust through the wall behind you with a big sledgehammer.
Justin:
Yeah. Chris, I don't know if you wanna keep this in or keep it out. You do whatever you want with it.
Jon:
Or maybe that's a good metaphor for rebuilding your dashboard.
Justin:
Dashboard. The real life real life metaphor.
Jon:
Yeah. There were certain components that I just I don't know. We're hard to build without an actual without the actual web app running. So, I started that process. It's going it's going pretty well, but it is, there's a lot there's a lot of stuff to do.
Jon:
Mhmm. Most of the different pages and layouts and different types of of layouts we have, won't be too hard to get done, but a lot of the other stuff, which is, like, mostly relying on JavaScript that we had before that was kinda prebuilt with our framework that we're using, that'll take a little bit to to get back back to where it was. But it also like, I think what we talked about is it gives us an opportunity to sort of, like, build out this thing page by page, but also revisit a few areas or at least it'll give us a better sense of what we wanna kind of improve down the road. Because I'm trying I'm trying not to make it too different. I don't wanna rebuild the dashboard and then and just, like, put it in front of people, and then they're gonna be confused or upset that it's different, and they don't know how to do anything.
Jon:
So it's like there are some differences, but it's not it's not major. Yeah. But it's good. It's a good exercise, I think, to well, one to just kinda look back at everything we've built. Mhmm.
Jon:
And then, you know, make a list of thing of areas that need improvements navigationally or just as, you know, UX, kind of just ease of use Yeah. For certain parts of the site.
Justin:
Yeah. And it kind of allows you to look at things again in a new light. And I think this is actually a good practice. There's that old Jolan Software blog post where he tells you never to rebuild your app.
Jon:
Yep.
Justin:
And I think, actually, in retrospect, that's bad advice because eventually, you've got to move forward. So so so this the idea sorry. I know you want to jump in here.
Jon:
No. I mean, I sure. I I don't think we're rebuilding it, though. If No.
Justin:
We're not rebuilding it. I but this is one of those projects that kind of has that smell of, it's gonna be big. It's gonna take way longer than you think it's gonna take. You're you're gonna open up one cabinet. And then actually, you're gonna open up one wall and, you know, you're gonna find all you wanted to do was change the paint color, but now you gotta change the electrical and everything else.
Jon:
Yeah. I mean, it has it has the potential to become the this endless project where it's like, alright. We've we've updated the design, but now let's rebuild this section of the dashboard before actually releasing what we have.
Justin:
I think the it it's just making me think about that because I remember that Joel and software thing that said you should never rebuild your app. There's just so many apps that don't progress. And I think you kind of need to do both. You need to progress iteratively. So in this case, we are, you know, we're switching out our UI framework.
Justin:
And that it feels like a big step, but it's not so big. It's not like rebuilding the whole thing.
Jon:
Right.
Justin:
I do also think, eventually, you need to move to v 2. You need to have a new version of the app. Maybe not in all cases. I this is obviously conditional, but the the concern is there are some really old crusty apps out there. And that if you let it go for too long, then you're, you know, up the river.
Jon:
I guess right. It depends. It depends on who's involved. Is it a new team? Is it like, I I would not wanna rebuild this.
Jon:
Right? Like, I wouldn't wanna rebuild a version 2 of transistor because I'm just doing the same thing over. Yeah. I'd rather just hire someone to do it or whatever. Like or if we had if we had hired multiple developers and, like, they were more excited to do it Yeah.
Jon:
Sure. If it made sense, but, like, building the same thing again is not fun.
Justin:
Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, it's kind of a catch to it. I actually heard another podcast, with Mike from FreshBooks. And what they did is they realized, okay, we need to make a massive platform change.
Justin:
And so they created a brand new company with its own team, and they called it a different company and everything. And they built a brand new app. So they built a competitor to their product. And then people were signing up for the com the con the competitor. And, you know, they started making revenue and stuff.
Justin:
And only once they felt like, okay, this is worth switching to. And these numbers, we can compare these numbers to our old numbers. Then FreshBooks legally acquired that company, and then they said we're to their existing customers, we're switching to this new platform. And I think he said now about 90% of their existing customers have switched to the new platform.
Jon:
That's an interesting way to do it. Yeah. Did the did the team that was working on it
Gavin:
know that it was related to the other company?
Justin:
Yes.
Jon:
Okay.
Justin:
Yeah. Yeah. They they they knew what was going on, But it was it was legally and functionally a separate team. Because the the the risk there is and we've seen this with some of our competitors is, you know, you rebuild, you make v 2, and you upset a lot of people. And Yeah.
Justin:
There's it's difficult to split test these things because it's possible you build something new that is worse.
Jon:
Yep. For sure.
Justin:
And on the other hand, there's the base camp approach, which is we're gonna build something new. And if you wanna stay on base camp classic, that's fine. We'll we'll keep that running forever. But our marketing page, when you click sign up, is gonna go to v 4. And that's the you can't sign up for a classic anymore.
Justin:
I mean, we're way far away from this. I'm not and also, I mean, the dream of course, is that you can iteratively upgrade your app as you go and that it, you know, you just keep putting fresh new coats of paint and keep changing the plumbing. And and, you know, the the dream, of course, is that you never have to make a a massive platforms switch. Do you do you think we're out of those days now, or do you think it's still I mean, obviously, base camp keeps rebuilding theirs. But
Jon:
I don't know. I I think it might depend on the the industry you're in. Like, I feel like each iteration of Basecamp or version is a different way of managing projects.
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
Whereas, like, if we rebuild transistor, it's not like podcasting has changed. Yeah. So I think that's why they do it. Each version is different. I don't there's certain a couple versions in there I never used, but
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
Or version 2. I don't know what it was. But
Justin:
So you're saying if we had a massive new paradigm, like, maybe we we decided we wanted to get into the video podcasting game. Would that be a big enough switch that we would need to rebuild the
Jon:
No. Because video podcasting is almost exactly the same as audio.
Justin:
Okay. What if Donald Trump outlaws RSS feeds? And and he has a yeah, and he implements a new spec that all American companies did need to follow. This is a bad example already.
Jon:
Yeah. This is bad. I'm just gonna go into a political rant now. Bad example.
Justin:
What if, what if the, I mean, that would be one. What if the for some somehow the RSS working group gets back together and actually releases a new version of the spec.
Jon:
It's it's fine. It's only one small part of our app. Yeah. So I I I for I don't know. Maybe not I mean, podcasting is a bad example.
Jon:
I don't know. I mean, it's maybe we are out of that period where we need to rebuild things.
Justin:
Yeah. I mean, you've already rebuilt a podcast testing app twice.
Jon:
That's true.
Justin:
So, I mean, in some ways, this is v 2.
Jon:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true.
Justin:
And, and so that I think, you know and really, I think this dashboard and we have been, you know, building new things. So, like, as an update from myself, we had, we talked about creating a change log for our app. Mhmm. And I've been working on doing something like that. And so if you go to transistor.fm/ changelog, you can see it.
Justin:
What to do that, to kind of fill in backfill everything, I went through every email newsletter I've ever sent out and where we had a feature announcement, and I I put that in.
Jon:
Okay.
Justin:
And, going forward, our change log updates might not be like that. Maybe we'll, you know, I I don't know how we'll structure them, but I just wanted to have something in there so I could look at it. It's amazing when you look at the cadence of releases, because we generally only tell people about major releases as well. It it's pretty, you know, it's pretty consistent. And, there were a few of those updates from way back when I was like, woah.
Justin:
Our our analytics used to look like this. And, oh, yeah. We used to do, you know, this flow this way. That was crazy. So it is amazing how much an app can evolve just as you work on it.
Justin:
Right?
Jon:
Yeah. It yeah. It sure it certainly is. I mean, I should I should look back at our GitHub commits from, I I guess, from the beginning of time to now or when we publicly released it till now.
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
It'd be interesting to look at it because it we also have in GitHub, we have pull requests, which are generally a feature or a fix or
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
Something. So you can actually go through all of our old pull request too and see what's been changed.
Justin:
Yeah. Maybe I should backfill some of that stuff too. Yeah. By the way, I wanna try one more thing, and I wanna try it live right in the podcast for folks that are listening. This is an experiment in in it's an experiment in making podcasts more engaging and interesting and maybe trying something that doesn't get tried very often.
Justin:
If you go to transistor.fm/contest, I wanna I wanna do a little contest, and I wanna start with our listeners. And the I I think if this works, this might be something that I wanna just introduce every so often. Every so you know, every, I don't know, handful of episodes or so, say, okay. Hey. We're right now, folks, we're dropping a new contest right here at timestamp 2610, and it's just for you.
Justin:
Go there now. And, this one ends at the end of February, But some of them, I might make just like 3 or 4 days long. And the idea is if you're listening and you just go to that URL on your phone, you have a chance of being in before anyone else. And maybe this is a model other podcasts can, follow to I don't know. Maybe it'll make things more interactive or maybe it won't.
Justin:
Maybe it'll just be done, but I, I feel like it's an experiment with trying. So, yeah, I built this little page. I'm using, my friend Yaz. He he's built this thing called contest kit that I'm I'm trying out. And, Yeah.
Justin:
It's kinda cool. Like, you just set all the prizes, and then you can make it draw, like, throughout the contest, or you can make it do the draw at the end of the contest. And then it just it just randomly selects all of the winners and notifies them by email. So, yeah, right now, we're I've got some microphones listed there. You're probably right.
Justin:
I need to I need to restrict where we ship that thing. But Yeah. I I also think another driver of that for me was I listen to a lot of new podcasts on our system, and a lot of folks could really improve their podcast just by getting a better microphone. And so I'm trying to think of ways you and I can encourage that. I think maybe a contest is one way.
Justin:
Another thing I'd like to think about is, again, figuring out how we can get better microphones into the hands of folks that, you know, are creating interesting shows, but maybe don't have the funds right now to get a microphone, and, hopefully attracting more diversity into podcasting as well. I'm I'm trying to think of ways we can encourage that. So this contest is kind of in that in that world. It's not exactly in that world, but, you know, one one thought kind of led to another.
Jon:
Yeah. We'll see how it goes.
Justin:
Yeah. So we'll try it out. Please, if you if you live in Greenland, don't enter.
Jon:
But if you win a if you win a microphone, it the audio only works if you upload it to transistor.
Justin:
That's right. Yeah. Well wouldn't that wouldn't that be crazy if we if we could, like, convince Samson to, like, enter this this something in the chip or something that created a frequency that only works. Like you upload it to a competitor and it just doesn't work.
Jon:
It's just like noise.
Justin:
Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna give away some, a free year of Transistor as well. So if you are interested in getting into podcasting, this might that might be a good chance. And I think I'm I'm gonna give away some free shirts.
Justin:
I need to get you some more shirts.
Jon:
Yeah. I was gonna design a new one at one point, and I didn't.
Justin:
Yeah. I yeah. Just you just need to go into printful and upload something. Yeah. I think I wanna make some hats too with the the basic emblem embroidered on it.
Justin:
Uh-huh. Are you a hat wearer?
Jon:
Yeah. Occasionally. Well, when it's warmer out.
Justin:
What do you like? Do you you like the flex fit or?
Jon:
I like the flex fit fitted hat.
Justin:
Okay. I like that low pro hat, you know, that the barista cap.
Jon:
No. The 5 not familiar.
Justin:
The 5 panel? It's kind of like, it's not quite a cycling cap. Like, the cycling caps had that build, though, too. You know, in, like, Tour de France.
Jon:
Okay.
Justin:
Wow, man. It sounds like you need a cap education.
Jon:
Sounds like it. Anyway,
Justin:
I think we're gonna make some of that stuff. Printful is really if folks haven't tried it out and they're they're looking to dip their toes and and making a little bit of swag, they do print on demand. And the print is not as good as if you'd screen printed dot it on. But it oh, I'm wearing one right now. My I love PHP shirt.
Justin:
I I made this for Laracon. So I've watched this probably 10 times, and it's still the it's still fine. It it just does, it fades differently than a screen print. But they Yeah.
Jon:
Screen prints are always that's like the the gold standard.
Justin:
Yeah. But, again, this is pretty this is pretty close. And they also do print on demand embroidery or embroidery on demand. And so you can get, like, instead of having to order a 100 caps, we can just order 1 at a time. And the other thing is they've somehow gotten the shipping super cheap.
Justin:
So some items like, they have print and fulfillment centers in the US, Asia, and Europe. And so they can, you know, embroider it on demand, and sometimes the shipping is, like, 3.95 per item. No tracking on that, but still pretty good. Anything else we should anything else going on that you're thinking about, talking about, working on?
Jon:
No. It's mostly, taking it bit by bit. Mhmm. Just trying to, like, take an hour or so and hand kinda, like, tackle one one part of 1 page or something. And
Justin:
Do you feel like
Jon:
make a list of
Justin:
Sorry to interrupt. Do do you feel like you're getting enough maker time?
Jon:
Yeah. I do. Some days are different than others, but I think it's just a matter of me muting certain communication channels. Yeah. Yeah.
Jon:
There's definitely times where I'm I'm easily distracted by an email or something in our support system or something on Slack that someone mentions me and it pulled me away. So But I don't have I have 0 notifications on my computer. Most of my phone notifications are off all the time.
Justin:
Okay.
Jon:
So, like, I don't I don't see most messages unless I actively check it.
Justin:
So and then and maybe just getting in the habit of closing Slack completely would
Jon:
Yeah. I have a a friend. I think I think he has actually introduced us to other companies he's worked at. So he he used to work with a friend, and they had this saying that when they needed when they needed, like, time to work and not be interrupted, they they would be like, alright. I'm going in the tank.
Jon:
Mhmm. Right? Yeah. And so Is this
Justin:
a fish tank or a military tank?
Jon:
More like a sound like a like an isolation tank. An isolation chamber. Yeah. But and so when A float tank. People started yeah.
Jon:
People here started using Slack. They would just update their status with an with a tank, like a military tank icon that meant don't bother me. Yeah. I'm in the tank.
Justin:
I'm in the tank. I like it. I I mean, these are the things that, can sometimes be tricky with remote companies because
Jon:
Yeah.
Justin:
I can't just go and tap you on the shoulder, but I can definitely at mention you on GitHub and on Slack and, you know
Jon:
Tapping someone on the shoulder at work is the worst idea. Yeah. So bad, especially in open offices, which is what most people are in now. Yeah. It's just like, get away from me.
Jon:
What are you doing? My headphones are on. Yeah.
Justin:
Yeah. I mean, it is one of the nice things I've liked about working in a co working space is you get the benefit of being around people. But there's really no reason for someone to tap you on the shoulder unless they wanna go for lunch.
Jon:
Right. Or, like, since you run the space, if, like, the toilet is overflowing
Justin:
Yeah.
Jon:
And there's, like
Justin:
Yeah. There's been Maybe then. Yeah. There's the those those things too for sure. Yeah.
Justin:
So okay. Well, that's good to good to know. I I do notice sometimes, like, for me, I definitely need sometimes where I'm in maker mode. But a lot of my best work happens when I am getting distracted. And I I think this is the difference between someone who is, maybe doing marketing.
Justin:
Is that part of it is and maybe this is also why I don't struggle with Twitter as much as some of my developer friends.
Jon:
Mhmm.
Justin:
Part of my approach is to kind of be all places at once and to get notified and respond right away because then you're in the conversation right away, and some of those things are timely. Mhmm. Sometimes I need it's it's nice to be able to just follow a rabbit hole and then follow another rabbit hole and and or get inspired in a moment and then, you know, turn on my camera and my microphone and record a video. I did that yesterday for our affiliate program. And I had no plan to do that.
Justin:
But, you know, I can do that in a space of 15 minutes. Whereas there's other times where, like, I was working on this change log system and it was, you know, it was coding and then it was like, backfilling all of these old events. And I closed everything for that. And then when I came back to you, I was like, woah. Look at it.
Justin:
Right.
Jon:
Look at
Justin:
all this stuff in Slack and, and in customer support.
Jon:
Yeah. Yeah. It's I don't know. It's a weird it's a weird thing to, like I mean, I'm generally of the mindset of, like, alright. I'm gonna do, like, I'm gonna do longer periods of of, concentrated work when I'm feeling up for it.
Jason:
Mhmm.
Jon:
Sometimes it's, like, later in the day, and then the day is ending and you haven't quite finished what you wanted to do. And it's like it's kind of a letdown because you're like, alright. I didn't actually finish this. Now I gotta, like
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
Make a note of where I left off, or then you just keep thinking about it.
Justin:
Mhmm.
Jon:
It's tough. I really would rather be able to, like, get into a schedule of where I wake up in the morning and well, probably work out first, but then get into this habit of doing the more intensive work in the morning. Yep. But I haven't been able to do that. So
Justin:
There's a good interview with Ryan Holiday, the author on Noah Kagan's podcast. And he talks a little bit about his routine. He's got he doesn't have a bunch of stuff in his calendar, but he just knows he loves to write. He wants writing to be the main thing that he does.
Jon:
And
Justin:
so he does that first, and then meetings, email, everything else happens in the afternoon. Generally, I think that's a good approach. Yeah. If you can manage it.
Jon:
I would much yeah. I would much rather do that. But
Justin:
So what's what's holding you back?
Jon:
I guess just kidding. I mean, I just have to start and get in the habit. I think it's I haven't just haven't I don't know what's necessarily holding me back. Mhmm.
Justin:
What what did that just remind you of?
Jon:
The I think you posted this or maybe not. The, Panic Podcast about their podcasting app they made. Podcasting. Did you listen to that episode?
Justin:
I haven't listened to that yet.
Jon:
No. Oh, it's hilarious. It's so funny.
Justin:
So why is it funny? Because it because they just had a so okay. Go ahead.
Jon:
So panic, the company that makes, they make Mac software and
Justin:
stuff and iOS. Coda. They're Transmit.
Jon:
Yeah. They're always doing, like I don't know. They're they're funny people. They do they do funny stuff and make some quirky apps. So they have a new podcast out, and the second episode is about this app they made for the iPhone, like, right after the App Store was announced.
Jon:
And they made what was essentially a podcasting app, like, one of the first it was probably the first podcasting app, native podcasting app
Justin:
Okay.
Jon:
For the iPhone. But it was sort of a jokey app in that you could subscribe to podcasts, but then this was at the time that fart apps were, like, all the rage. Like, they were the number one selling app in the App Store. So this podcast app was, like, beautifully designed. But while you were listening to a podcast, it would analyze the audio for silences and just put in a random fart noise.
Jon:
It's hilarious. They shipped that? They shipped it. But they actually started, like, a they started a fake company in Germany to sell.
Gavin:
You gotta listen to it. It's great.
Jon:
We used to link to it, but it is like Oh my god. Amazing. Apparently, it was actually a good app. There were actually people, like, who paid $2 for it, and we're like, hey. I actually really like using this.
Jon:
Is there a way for me to turn off the fart noises?
Justin:
There's just so much about that that is just it's just the mwah. Yeah.
Jon:
You know, you gotta you gotta listen to it. It's it's
Justin:
it's fascinating. Oh, that is so funny. I think that's that's a good place to leave it today. Let's,
Jon:
Let's see if Chris inserts some, some noises into the into the silence.
Justin:
Sparingly, Chris.
Jon:
Yeah.
Justin:
Yeah. John, why don't you thank our Patreon supporters?
Jon:
Alright. Yeah. Thanks as always to, our supporters on Patreon. We have Mason Hensley. Still don't know how to pronounce this.
Jon:
I'm gonna try to guess. Borja sol Solaire?
Justin:
I think that's right. We'll see.
Jon:
Ward Sandler, Eric Lima, James Sours, Travis Fisher, Matt Buckley, Russell Brown, Evandro Sassy, Prady Yumna Schenbecker, Noah Praill, Robert Simplicio, Colin Gray, Josh Smith, Ivan Kerkovic, Brian Ray, Shane Smith, Austin Loveless, Simon Bennett, Michael Sittber, Paul Jarvis, and Jack Ellis, Dan Buddha, my brother, Darby Frey, Samori Augusto, Dave Young, Brad from Canada, Sammy Schubert, Mike Walker, Adam Devander, Dave Junta.
Justin:
Junta.
Jon:
And Kyle Fox from get rewardful dot com.
Justin:
How come my brother doesn't support this show?
Jon:
No. Does he know you does he know you have one?
Justin:
Probably not. I don't even know if he listens to podcasts.
Jon:
Okay. Would he listen to them if they had fart noises in them?
Justin:
Probably. He he would listen to it if I got embarrassed for sure. Like, if if it Thanks for listening folks. We'll see you next week.
