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“I travel a lot as a business owner and it is a large expense in my business. Are points or frequent flyer programs worth it and how can I get better value for money when it comes to travel?”
Connecting business owners with financial expertise to grow their businesses.
Sarah Petty (00:01)
Hi Gagan, welcome to the Olive Insights podcast. Great to have you on today.
Gagan (00:05)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Pleasure to be here.
Sarah Petty (00:08)
Yeah, very welcome. Well, we are going to be talking all things business travel today, which I know is a very popular topic amongst audience listeners. And you are one of the very few experts in Australia that actually understands the points programs and how to best utilize this. So before we dive into it all, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your business? Turn left for less. Turn left for less.
Gagan (00:35)
turn left for less. as you said it, most people when you know how you have your boarding pass checked out with a person at the counter before you get to the jet bridge, and you're about to enter the aircraft, most people turn right into economy or other classes, premium economy these days. ⁓ And which is the money printing machine right now for airlines. But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to help business people turn left into business or first class. Therefore,
Sarah Petty (00:48)
Yes.
Yeah.
Gagan (01:05)
turn left for less. So I've been traveling in business and first for about 11 years and Sarah it didn't even occur to me it could be a business or helping other people until two years ago I helped a friend. He saved a ton of money after he picked up his job from the ground he said why don't you start a business and start helping other people. So I did and what I do is I hope business owners understand the power of their spending already right the money they're already spending plus
three or four other strategies that can get them to Europe, Asia, niche destinations like Maldives, Mali, Japan, South America, for usually if they have the points under $2,000 return. Now that's good value, right? So that's what we do. We educate people on educate business owners to be more specific on how they can use their current spending, even if they did nothing else and just utilize the business spending they could.
Sarah Petty (01:47)
Mmm, wow. Yeah.
Yes.
Gagan (02:04)
truly save a lot of money and that money could be reinvested back into the business or they could do more shopping while they're overseas.
Sarah Petty (02:13)
Yes, absolutely. And as business owners, we're all putting our heart and soul into our businesses and we deserve some reward back. So if you can get that through what you're already spending, ⁓ then that's a great outcome. So I'm sure we'll be lots of interested listeners today. So we actually had a question from a listener, which I think is quite relevant to what you're talking about. ⁓ And this listener is a business owner who's sad.
I travel a lot as a business owner. It's a large expense in my business. frequent flyer points or are points or frequent flyer programs worth it? And how can I get better value for money when it comes to travel? And, you know, I, as a virtual CFO, I'm seeing a lot of business financials and travel for some business owners is quite a big expense. ⁓ And for others, they are spending a lot in their business and then not utilizing that for.
accumulating points. So ⁓ let's dive into it and get into a bit more of the details. A lot of people think that collecting points is about flying often. So you have to be a frequent flyer, flying monthly, weekly to be able to accumulate points. Is that the only way to collect points? Or are there, you talked about the business spend, how do business owners collect points?
Gagan (03:18)
Absolutely.
So ⁓ I teach a method where ⁓ business owners, in fact, most Australians can earn up to half a million points a year organically. I want to say it again, because it is not hard at all. Because we are so busy living our lives and doing what we do, we don't pay attention to these things, but we do.
Sarah Petty (03:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gagan (04:02)
And we teach people, like for example, I did a master class last week and we gave away a swipe file, Sarah, where you could give that swipe file to an 11 year old and they could do things or put things in practice for their moms and dads who are business owners so that they could earn up to half a million points for free organically. I'll give you an example. So most Australians have private health insurance, right?
Sarah Petty (04:27)
Yes, yes.
Gagan (04:27)
There
are some misconceptions around it, like people who've paid yearly for it. Look, it is a sensitive topic. If you have any sensitive legacy plan or a sensitive arrangement with your insurer, do not change just because of points. You should never do it. if you are in the market looking at switching, considering changing to a better private health provider, there's at least four out there who give you between 80 to 150,000 points.
just for signing up with them, whether you're a solo, you know want to get insured just for yourself or with your partner or for a family. And I've seen people get up to 150,000 points paying for something they already need. And that's just one tiny, tiny, tiny way. We send an email out to all our premium clients every week, which has about five to 15 deals that you could do in the city or state you're living in. ⁓
Sarah Petty (04:57)
Right.
Yeah.
Gagan (05:25)
spending money the way you are without spending anything extra and you can gain between, I mean even if I was conservative, anybody could earn between three to five hundred thousand points a year. That's the equivalent to a return business class ticket to Europe approximately and just paying taxes under fifty hundred bucks. Now that's pretty cool.
Sarah Petty (05:29)
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I don't think we don't think of these things. You you always think the points are associated with travel. So it's good to know things like ⁓ health insurance is something where you can earn points. ⁓ And so for business owners, what's the smartest way for them to be earning points using their business spend? And of course, you you mentioned there of if you're not necessarily in the market for health insurance, don't just go out doing it for points. assume it's
Gagan (06:05)
So.
Sarah Petty (06:14)
The same for business spending, you don't go over spending just to accumulate points, but how can they accumulate points based on what they're already needing to spend in their business?
Gagan (06:18)
Yep. Yep.
Yep,
sure. So I will answer this in a way so it combines the answer to ⁓ another question you asked early on from one of the user, which is, is Freakin' Fly points worth it? So I'll answer both. ⁓ And the answer is that there are payment aggregator platforms out there where you can pay your invoices, your suppliers, BAS, ATO, pay as you go payments, ⁓ rent, ⁓ in...
Sarah Petty (06:35)
Yeah.
Gagan (06:52)
any business invoice. It's a B2B platform and there's at least seven or eight of them now in Australia and you can use them to convert your business spending into points. Yes, there is a small fee you pay but there is lot of misinterpretation about what that fees is because most people look at what's outgoing. There is not enough education in the market about what's incoming.
I'll give you an example. and I use one of those payment aggregators myself, my business expenses, and I earned about 45,000 points using that system. And the fee to use that system to pay those bills was about $900, which is tax deductible right now. Whatever the tax component is, let's say you're saving 25, 30%, let's call it 700 bucks. So I use that.
Sarah Petty (07:38)
Yes.
Gagan (07:47)
I use the number of points to book a Melbourne to Bangkok flight for the same number of points plus $162 in taxes, so call it 200. Now I'm not sure if you can get a Melbourne to Bangkok flight with Singapore Airlines in business class for $900. So when we talk about overspending, I don't call that $700 overspending because a,
It's a speaking gig I've been invited to, so I'm actually going for work, so it's a fully deductible trip. But even if it was a personal trip, right? Even if it was a personal trip, you spend under a grand to go in one of the finest airlines in the world, in business class. What that means is you whisk through security, you have a lounge access, you're sitting with like-minded entrepreneurs, you can do your work quietly if you wish to.
Sarah Petty (08:17)
Yes. Yes.
Gagan (08:38)
and you get a flatbed and you can sleep your way. That is what find the most common thing people are interested in. They want to arrive to their conferences, meetings, even holidays rested, not stressed. Does that answer your question?
Sarah Petty (08:54)
Yeah, of course.
Yes, and we're all time poor, right? So we don't want to spend three days getting over jet lag. If we can arrive well rested. And I think your point there is more, you know, to do the analysis. And if you're doing those trips, you're planning to do those trips anyway, you know, exactly that the cost of the trip, how does that compare to the fee paid? I think when I'm talking about overspending, have seen businesses just, you know, spend and buy things to accumulate points on credit cards.
Gagan (08:58)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Sarah Petty (09:22)
that they don't necessarily need in their business. But if it's business spend that you are spending anyway, and you're able to find whether it's payment platform, I mean, it would be interesting to get your thoughts on some of the credit cards as well, and whether that's worthwhile. And I know sometimes you can do even on the payment platforms using the credit cards. Is that right? So you have sort of, can almost double dip there on the points.
Gagan (09:42)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
⁓ Well actually you can triple dip. just before we get there, yeah, yeah, I also want to give your viewers an example so that they know exactly what sort of... because everybody is spending differently. I have clients who spending 10k a month on their business. I have clients who are spending 16 million dollars a month on their business, right? Different business, quite a bit of range there. But anybody who's spending on average 30 grand a month on their business, a month, can easily earn...
Sarah Petty (09:49)
Triple dip.
Yeah, sure, yeah.
Yep.
Gagan (10:15)
I'm saying easily if you have a business credit card, and this is a good segue into the question you just asked me, Sarah, they can easily earn between 500 to 600,000 points a year above what they're currently earning through their organic spend. Now, to answer your question, if you pay with a business, so if you use these payment aggregated platforms with a business credit card,
Sarah Petty (10:21)
Yeah.
Bye.
Gagan (10:42)
you can triple it because let's say you want to pay your rent, the place where you're doing business is on rent and you're paying $10,000 to your landlord and you put it through the platform. So you pay a 1.8 % fee if you're not using a card, but if you're using a card, you pay a little more fee, but the amount of points you get is double to what you would have gotten if you didn't use your card. That's number one, right? So you use the card, you get the points on the platform and you get the points
on your AMX, let's say. I'm just going to use AMX right now. It's probably the most common business card people have. AMX Platinum, AMX Charge Card, Contest Business Rewards, whatever card you have, use your AMX to pay that bill using the platform. You get points on the platform, you get points on your AMX, so that's double-dipping. Now, even people who are doing this already, which is a minority,
Sarah Petty (11:18)
Yeah.
Gagan (11:35)
Even people who doing it don't do the third step. can actually pay your card off using the same platform. Because you just use it to pay a bill. So guess what? Amex is not doing social service. You've got to pay them back. So you can use the same platform to pay them back that 10 grand. And now you're getting more points on the platform. So you double dip. And what I teach is how to triple dip.
Sarah Petty (11:44)
Hmm, right.
Yep.
Gagan (12:04)
plus how to diversify your points. Because I know it's a question you haven't asked, but if I may, I'd like to dig into the fact that if you have to earn points, diversify. Like we diversify our assets. We invest money in stocks, in gold, precious metals. Our portfolio is property or crypto or whatever. Why not diversify the points? And if you can diversify, have certain points in quarters, have certain points in velocity. ⁓
payment aggregated platforms, the good ones allow you to transfer those points to up to 12 airline partners, therefore potentially exploding the opportunities available to businesses to fly anywhere in the world potentially.
Sarah Petty (12:52)
Right, that's interesting. mean, I hadn't really thought about that. And a lot of people do think they have to be loyal to one airline to be able to make it worthwhile. But you're suggesting to look for the best opportunity and diversify as you would any type of asset portfolio. Yeah. Yeah.
Gagan (13:10)
100 % I'll give you a quick example if I may. if
you had again let's say about 80,000 points with a payment aggregated platform that you could transfer to one of the 12 airlines and I'm just going to pick on one airline. Let's say ⁓ you want to fly with ⁓ British Airways right and ⁓ you can transfer the points from this payment aggregated to British Airways.
That doesn't mean that you have to necessarily fly with British Airways. There's something called the alliances. Now I'm doing a bit of coaching now for your viewers, two minutes of coaching. There's three alliances in the world, right? Star Alliance, One World, and Sky Team. Most people have heard about Star Alliance. Some have heard about One World. Most haven't heard about Sky Team. And what I teach is how to put these alliances on steroids.
Sarah Petty (13:42)
Mm-hmm.
Gagan (14:03)
meaning how do you actually use them properly. So if you had points transferable to British Airways, you can actually utilize that to redeem flights with the likes of ⁓ Malaysian Airlines or ⁓ Fin Air or Japan Airlines or Qatar or American Airlines. So most people don't even know that's possible.
Even with Qantas and Velocity, just because you have Qantas points doesn't mean you have to necessarily fly with Qantas. You can use that to fly with Japan Airlines, with Malaysian Airlines, with Emirates. The same with Velocity. You can use Velocity points to travel with Singapore Airlines and with Qatar. But when you use payment aggregator platforms and the good ones, and there are some seriously good ones out there, you can just exponentially improve the possibilities. 12x.
Sarah Petty (14:54)
Yeah.
Gagan (14:54)
of finding
reward seats because that's the next problem that is being created. I have some clients before my coaching who saying, I've got 16 million Amex membership reward points, but nowhere to go.
Sarah Petty (15:06)
Yeah, yeah.
Gagan (15:07)
because certain credit card companies, I won't take names, but they are devaluating. mean it's common knowledge, they're devaluating their points after 15th December. Singapore Airlines very quietly devalued their points by a little bit, but they did that post 1 November, about six days ago. So it's even more important to understand, especially to those business owners who spending 30, 40, 50, 100, 200,000, even millions of dollars.
Sarah Petty (15:13)
Yeah.
Gagan (15:36)
on their existing business spend because they can very smartly capitalize that with a whole lot of efficiency and convert that into enjoyable family trips in business class or even first class for a lot less, most commonly up to ⁓ two-thirds. It's reasonably easy to get about 66 % discount or off if you use your points efficiently.
Sarah Petty (15:55)
Mmm.
Yeah, that's amazing. And let's talk a little bit more about redemption because you've spoken there, you know, on how to earn the points and how to triple dip, which is a great tip. But what are the best ways for businesses to redeem points? You know, there's options beyond travel in redeeming points, but is the business first class flights? Is that where they'll get the best value for money?
Gagan (16:25)
Yes, business class is often the best way. It's usually not advisable to use your points for economy trouble or even premium economy. The difference is because, I'll give an example Sarah, is let's say you want to go to Europe and a typical economy price to go to Europe for Aussies and come back is about two grand. Could be fifteen hundred, could be two and half, call it two grand. Premium economy is around four, four and a half, could be even three and a half, let's call it four.
Sarah Petty (16:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Gagan (16:55)
Business class ticket is anywhere between $8,000 to $15,000. The moment you get to top tier airlines, and we all know who they are, we're talking 12 grand plus. So the difference between economy premium economy that are here and business class is huge. However, when you're redeeming with points, that difference doesn't exist. That difference is not that big, which means
Sarah Petty (17:01)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Gagan (17:23)
the best efficiency you're going to get for your points is redeeming business class and if possible if you're flying solo or for a couple of people you can even fly first class therefore not just for xing your return sometimes even six to eight xing your return. I'll give you an example you can redeem an economy ticket for 50 000 points same route you can redeem a business ticket for 100 000 points now you tell me which is better right
Because if you book a ticket with Business Class for 100,000 points, which is double the number of points, you've just got four times more value as opposed to paying with cash. Does that make sense?
Sarah Petty (18:05)
Yes, yes, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's really helpful. And, you know, I think when this is a great opportunity for small business owners to when they don't have the budgets of large corporations that can fly their stuff, you know, overseas in business class. So this gives an opportunity to sort of compete on that level, utilizing the points. Do you think business owners need to be more strategic when it comes to
creating their thinking about their business trouble and utilizing points in this way, what are some tips for them?
Gagan (18:41)
100 % and immediately my mind goes to, know, this, I don't know, there will be at least 10,000 plus businesses, maybe 100,000 plus businesses who have employees, five plus employees, 10 plus employees, you know, that even the salaries can be converted into points, right? And here's something I've learned in the last two years of coaching about 200 businesses, right? Is that it's not just international travel. I find a lot of businesses do
Sarah Petty (18:56)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gagan (19:11)
domestic travel. Melbourne, Perth and back with a combination of condos and merchant airlines in business class can go up to four and a half thousand dollars. I use my points to book a return flight to Perth for $150.
Sarah Petty (19:22)
Yeah.
Yeah, which is less than economy, a cost of economy flight.
Gagan (19:31)
100 % it's insane value. If you can be strategic, mean imagine if you're doing three four trips to Perth and you're in base in Melbourne or Sydney or even Coolangatta you're going from Gold Coast right. If you're going to Perth and you want to travel in style and even if you're putting it through your business and paying cash right, you're spending between two and four grand easy. And if you have the points you can travel and if you
Sarah Petty (19:53)
Yeah.
Gagan (19:59)
Follow the laws of timing, is something we teach in a program. There's a 90 % chance you'll get the reward seeds. And what that means is, for example, Melbourne Perth, you can get it for $81 using quarters points. Perth to Melbourne back, you can get it for $54 using velocity points. These are crazy, insanely low prices if you have the points.
Sarah Petty (20:20)
Yeah.
Gagan (20:21)
Here's another tip for your viewers. If you are booking with cash, whether it's economy or business for domestic travel, even international, book it through the business portal. Both Qantas and Velocity have a business portal. If you book through the business portal, you get points for the traveler and you get points for the business. So you're double dipping.
Sarah Petty (20:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, yes, good points. ⁓ There's some really good tips here, Gagan, but for me, this feels overwhelming to research this all myself. Is this easy for an average person to understand or is it best to get some expert advice around it?
Gagan (21:02)
Well, I've had people who have been trying this for a long time recently. So I've just created something quite cool. think I believe I'm the first points coach in Australia to launch a self-learning DIY program on school. That's with a K, S-K-O-L. I haven't even had launched it yet. It's a soft launch. So this is my way of doing a proper launch, maybe through your podcast. And anybody can join school for a very reasonable
Sarah Petty (21:17)
wow, yeah.
Amazing.
Gagan (21:32)
fee and they can, if they have the time, if they have the time, they can actually learn through the modules, which is about seven modules and five or seven videos per module and no module is more than 10-15 minutes, so they're very digestible modules and you can self-learn and because if you know what I know, potentially you never have to pay full price for business ever again and for people who need a little bit of hand holding, we have group
coaching and we have a platinum white glove service as well for one-on-one coaching. But if you don't have the time to go through 500 articles, and I will say this quite openly and transparently, everything we teach is out there open on the internet. It's all out there. But very, very, very few people, like you said, maybe between two and four people in Australia, have actually put it together into a system that can be taught to businesses in as little as three sessions.
Sarah Petty (22:23)
Yeah.
Gagan (22:29)
You're a business owner, Sarah, if I spent two or three sessions with you, which is two or three hours, you tell me if that's better use of time to learn all the hacks and strategies, or would you prefer to spend years in reading 500 articles?
Sarah Petty (22:41)
Yeah, no,
I don't have the time. Not many businesses do. So yeah, that's why this service is really helpful. So I'm sure listeners will be really interested to learn more about the program, the coaching and the DIY program that you're launching. I've got one more question for you before we finish up. But tell us about your best travel experience.
Gagan (23:06)
I can tell you right now it's 10th of August 2024. Last year it was returning from Singapore to Melbourne with Emirates first class and that was my second VLOG on my YouTube channel ⁓ which is just a turn left for less on YouTube and ⁓ I used up 107,000 points which I gained organically all for free.
Sarah Petty (23:20)
Yep.
Gagan (23:32)
What was amazing was the tax component was 105 Singapore dollars, which is about 125 Aussie. Now, it's pretty cool, right? To experience one of the best first classes in the world with Emirates on a seven and a half hour flight, including the lounge access in Singapore and to come back, not just rested, but be treated like a celebrity.
Sarah Petty (23:37)
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gagan (23:57)
and one signature move that I make always, and this is something, a tip for your views as well, always try to take chocolates. I always take chocolates for staff, crew members, because everybody is always asking, give me this, fetch me this, can you help me with this, I want this. But if you, and I do that even before they have a chance to check my ticket, and I say, by the way, this is for the crew and for the captain.
Sarah Petty (24:08)
⁓ that's a nice foot, yeah.
that's so kind of you, very thoughtful.
Gagan (24:25)
It's very hard to wipe off the smile of their faces because they are not expecting it. They're not expecting it. And it's just a little way of saying thank you. Because they're also human beings. Sure, they're doing a job and they're there to make you safe and to look after you. But that little gesture has won me some material things as well, even though I didn't ask for it. But at the very least, you get treated differently.
Sarah Petty (24:28)
Yeah. No, not a
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Gagan (24:53)
you're saying, in a way you're saying thank you, appreciate what you're doing for me. So that was my best trip. I tried all the 16 dishes on the menu just because I wanted to show my viewers what each dish looks like. Unfortunately, I couldn't eat them all and because I got them chocolates, they actually made me a dish that wasn't on the menu, which was divine. And they have vines and scotches and single malts that range between a thousand dollars to three thousand dollars a bottle.
Sarah Petty (24:57)
Yeah.
Yup.
wow, wow.
Gagan (25:23)
and not that I wanted to get drunk that day, but it was available for those who like a bit of, you know, ⁓ splurging or just drinking fine wine or ⁓ fine single malt.
Sarah Petty (25:33)
Yeah.
That's amazing. I've never been in first class myself, so I'll have to have that on my bucket list to have that experience. that sounds fabulous. And I'll remember the chocolate tip. I love that. And I think it's ⁓ a way of ⁓ showing gratitude in not just taking this for granted either. yeah, yeah. I think you can bring that to a lot of aspects of life and business.
Gagan (25:59)
100 % 100 %
I do. I actually took chocolates ⁓ one time to the Qantas first class lounge. So I took my parents on a first class trip and they've never been in business their entire life. So in August this year, I took my parents to Singapore in Qantas first class and I retook chocolates for the whole crew. And they weren't expecting it because normally I give it to the crew on the plane, but this time I took chocolates for the staff at the Qantas lounge and they were like, wow, this is the first.
Sarah Petty (26:16)
Wow.
No.
Gagan (26:34)
⁓ And you know, it just makes you happy that people are happy around you. And they give my mom a face massage. ⁓ They give my father a foot massage, you know, and we were not even booked for it. But it's just little things. You're not expecting anything, but you're just, you know, showing gratitude really.
Sarah Petty (26:38)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, I love that. Well, thank you Gagan for your time today and all your generous tips. ⁓ If listeners are interested in working with you or learning more about your programs, where's the best place to find that information?
Gagan (27:10)
So ⁓ the simplest way is to go to turnleftforless.com or they can also, ⁓ for people who are interested in the DIY self-learning platform, it's a bit longer name, apologies, we're working on the shorter, but it's landing.turnleftforless.com slash school with a K.
That's landing.turnleftforless.com slash SKOOL. That's the DIY platform. It's fully automated. You can self-register yourself, have a read of the testimonials, how the system works. We also offer a promise or a guarantee. But if you're interested in a bit more ⁓ white-left service or holding your hand type of service, you can then simply head to turnleftforless.com and you can register yourself. And if you like, you can even book a call with me.
Sarah Petty (27:39)
Mm-hmm.
Great, and I know you mentioned you have your YouTube channel and I know you post a bit on social media as well. it's worth following Gagan if you're interested in some tips and tricks relating to business and first class travel. Well.
Gagan (28:08)
Yeah.
It's interesting I got recently on my TikTok video and you never know which thing will explode, right? You just mentioned social media. My recent TikTok video got 700,000 views. That's totally unexpected. So not sure which message actually got exploded. We're trying to work it out, but it was very cool.
Sarah Petty (28:23)
Yeah.
wow.
congrats, that's great. Well, thanks a lot for your time today and ⁓ we really appreciate all the tips. So hopefully we'll see you in the first class lounge very soon.
Gagan (28:45)
Thank you so much and it was a pleasure to be here.