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C3 Leadership Podcast with Ed Young — Where creativity, church, and culture collide. Join Ed Young and guests for ideas and stories that will help you lead stronger and think sharper.
You mind telling the Kanye story or not?
I mind a little bit, but, uh...
Oh, that's okay.
I don't.
Alright, I'll tell it.
See Cliffe!
That's about as dumb as saying to a quadriplegic, paralysis is just a stage of exercise.
Peter was nailed to a cross, probably upside down, and Thomas was torn in half.
Those guys gave their life for Christ.
And what on earth am I doing, getting all scared about what happens to me when I live in the comfort and the protection of Western society?
Give me a break.
I don't know, they just told me to ask you that question.
Cliffe and I get along so well, because hopefully we complement.
We're opposites in a lot of ways.
How are we opposites?
Personality-wise, like I'm loud and tell crazy stories a lot, imitate people, use sound effects.
I've not really read that many books.
And you're brilliant.
You go to every campus from MIT.
From MIT to Midlothian University and you debate these brilliant people and your family's smart, everyone's smart.
Yes, your dad was smart.
I'm Cliffe.
Here we are.
Brother, come on, I had a 2.7 graduate GPA.
Oh my.
Cubita.
What is that?
Cuba, Cuban coffee.
Cuba, whoa.
Have you ever had Cuban coffee?
Never have.
Cliffe, I need, see I need to hang out with him.
I can introduce him.
Do you like coffee?
See, again, I love coffee, you don't.
Don't, that's right.
That's how we're opposite, okay.
I love fishing, and you're not into fishing, that much are you?
No.
Well, Cliffe, tell us this.
Tell me about this whole deconstruction thing.
Like, what is deconstruction, and where do you see it happening?
Well, help me understand deconstruction.
How do you define deconstruction?
I don't know, they just told me to ask you that question.
No, deconstruction would be.
Someone who's, you know, picking apart the Bible, it would be more of a liberal approach saying maybe the Bible contains the Word of God, it's not the Word God, so forth and so on that, you now, obviously God wants everybody to be saved and they think everyone, you know, the Bible says everyone will be saved, that.
Well, a Bible teacher was in Kenya.
And the course that the Bible teacher was teaching was the quest for the historical Jesus.
And all of a sudden, a Kenyan pastor raised his hand and said, teacher.
And the guy knew he was in trouble then when the guy called him teacher.
Yes.
He said, I am very sorry that in Germany, they've lost Jesus.
That's their problem.
In Kenya, we have found Jesus.
We love him and we follow him.
I think that was magnificent.
Oh.
That's absolutely brilliant.
I was at a seminary here in the United States, and I'd been invited there by a wonderful believer who was a professor, and we were walking down the hall going to the faculty lounge, and the professor looks at me and says, okay Cliffe, are you ready to do some evangelism?
That's that's correct And sure enough, I walked in there.
And the one question these professors had for me was, how do you help students understand the difference between the historical Christ and the Christ of faith?
And I said, guys, there's no difference.
That's right.
Jesus was a historical person who lived, taught, died, and rose from the dead.
That is the Jesus we put our faith in, not some mythological figure who's been constructed by some religious people.
And Jesus historically, physically rose from the dead, This whole point of Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20.
He was dead, buried in a tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, not in a fictitious tomb.
This was not a symbolic burial.
A stone was rolled in front of the tomb.
Not a fectitious stone, a real stone.
A Roman guard was set to make sure there'd be no hanky-panky, and three days later he rose from the dead.
So this whole idea that the resurrection is just a spiritual experience that we have every spring when the flowers sprout up.
Is absolutely absurd.
It's not the claim of the Gospels.
The claim of the Gosphels is the dead Christ rose from the dead and this is history.
Now what I'm so grateful for is that the Bible is the Word of God.
What does that mean?
It means that the bible is God opening up and revealing this is who I am.
Well said.
So, you know, I appreciate my friendship with you Ed but if you remain silent or if you wouldn't have lied to me.
I would never have the privilege of getting to know you.
Similarly, if I remain silent or lied to you.
That's right.
You would never have the privilege of us developing a relationship.
Every relationship that we have is based on revelation.
I have to reveal myself to a person.
The other person has to reveal themselves to me.
Otherwise, there's no way we're going to have a friendship.
There's no way we are going to have a relationship, so what is the Bible?
The Bible is God opening up and revealing who God is to us as human beings.
I love that.
That's so great.
It's important to have friends.
You remember that song by Michael W.
Smith?
Friends are friends forever.
Yeah, I love that song.
Keep singing, brother, why'd you stop?
If the Lord is Lord of them.
So I love it.
Shout out to Michael W Smith.
You know, Michael W Smith used to come to our church all the time, back, not this church, the church where my father pastored in his heyday.
Oh, and he was like filling up arenas.
He would do stuff for the students.
He was awesome.
Do you mind telling the Kanye story?
We don't care.
Come on, come on, Cliffe.
Cliffe, this Kanye story is great.
This guy was talking about Cliffe.
Cliffe is hilarious.
And you get he and his wife together, watch out.
We had dinner last night and we had such a wonderful time.
That was a great time.
And it was so cool too, to hear Cliffe interact with people and sharing, just sharing the gospel just as naturally as breathing.
You mind telling the Kanye story or not?
I mind a little bit but, uh...
Oh, that's okay.
I don't.
Alright, I'll tell it.
See Cliffe!
Well, the reason I feel a little awkward is obviously he's a well-known personality.
Yes, and so are you, and that's okay.
Kanye, we want Kanye to come to church.
Maybe the next time you're here, we'll invite Kanye.
Okay.
Alright, so Kanye wanted to meet, and so we met, and...
So you're at your house, he kind of heard about you, whatever?
At the church.
Okay, the church, okay.
So we met, and I was very impressed.
He was a man of real faith.
In fact, we're sitting there talking, and all of a sudden he turns to one of his bodyguards and says, you know, you should put your faith in Christ.
Because the guy had said to me, no, I haven't put my faith in Christmas.
And Connie looks at the guy and says you know you should your faith and Christ.
And I'm going, wow, what a brother, incredible.
Well, then you know all of the sudden during our conversation, he looks at my watch and he says, hey Cliffe, That's a really nice watch you got there.
I said, Kanye, I bought it for 40 bucks at Wal-Mart.
I mean, you could, and we went on and talking, and all of a sudden, second time, hey, Cliffe, that's a really nice watch.
I said well, Kanye you know, it works well, I like it.
We keep on talking, a third time, hey Cliffe, you know I really like your watch.
I said here man, absolutely, if you like it, I can easily go back and get another one at Wal Mart.
So I give him my Iron Man watch here, Timex, and he was very appreciative.
And so we finished talking and we started going down to the gymnasium because he wanted to shoot some hoop.
And as we're walking, all of a sudden, he takes off his watch.
This was a watch, 10 were made in Germany.
The guy comes over from Germany, meets with Kanye, and gives him this watch.
And Kanye gave me his watch, and I mean, I almost dropped it, it was so heavy.
And we went down and shot some hoop, and then he had to leave, and his handlers got him and took him away.
Is he, is he a good player?
Not that, I mean.
He's a coordinated guy.
Yes.
Okay.
I just wondered.
And he left, but all of a sudden, one of his handlers drove up and said, you know, Cliffe, that watch, you could get a good mortgage with it.
It's a very expensive watch.
Only about 10 of them in the world.
And I need to take that back to Kanye.
I said, sure, no problem.
So I took this hunker of a watch off and gave it back to him.
And I hope he gave it to Kanye, I don't know if he did, but.
That's all I have.
Does Kanye have your watch?
I sure hope he does.
I sure hope he didn't throw that thing out.
I gave it to him.
Next time I see him, I'm going to look in his wrist.
That was an hilarious interaction.
In fact, on a podcast later on, someone sent me the podcast.
He mentions getting a watch from a pastor.
Oh, my goodness.
He's a nice guy.
I don't know what's happened to him faith-wise.
And so I pray for the guy that he really trusts in Christ and lives for him.
Cliffe, what are some of the most exciting questions and subjects that you like to talk about?
I love to address the issue of, is faith intellectual suicide?
You know, some people have a rather sarcastic twist to it when they say, if one person is delusional, we call them insane.
If many people are delusinal, we called it religion.
That's a real sarcastic slam, all right?
And I love it when people are honest and really say that.
Because I think when you look at biblical faith, biblical faith is a response to evidence.
In John 14, 11, Jesus says, believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me.
Or at least believe me on the evidence of my works, of the miracles.
Crystal clear.
Faith in Christ is not a jump into la-la land.
Faith in the Christ is a response to evidence.
He lived a sinless life.
He taught amazing ethical teachings.
He died a sacrificial death.
He rose bodily from the dead.
Those four pieces of evidence convince me.
That Jesus Christ is reliable, totally credible.
So I love to go with the issue of faith with people.
I also love to with the issues of thinking.
What do you mean by that, thinking?
Jesus says, can any of you add a single hour to his life by worrying?
No.
Now Jesus is not appealing to emotions there.
He's saying, can you add a single our to your life by worry?
In other words, think Jack, think hard.
Yes.
Because worrying does not add an hour to your life.
He's not saying, suspend your thinking and sort of believe, believe, belief.
No, he's not say that.
He's saying you think seriously.
Can you add an our to your live by worrying?
And obviously the answer is no.
So I love the way he calls us to think.
And I really like John 14, 27, where Jesus says, peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you.
I do not give to as the world gives.
Okay, now the reason I like that so much is...
The world offers peace.
The world offers peace, get high on drugs.
The world offer peace, be sexually promiscuous, have as many sexual relationships as you can, and experience the physical rush and pleasure.
That's the way you escape pressure.
Yes.
You know what?
That thinking reaches the height of idiocy when the thinking says, death is just a stage of life.
That's about as dumb as saying to a quadriplegic, paralysis is just the stage of exercise.
Paralysis is not a stage of exercise.
Paralyzes is the opposite of exercise, and to say to a quadriplegic, oh, don't worry about your paralysis, it's just a stage exercise.
That's cruelty and insensitivity.
Similarly, to say that death is just a stage of life is cruel.
Death is not just a stage of life, it's the end of life.
Now Jesus says, peace I leave with you.
I do not give to you as the world gives.
Do not let your hearts be troubled.
Do not be afraid because I have conquered death.
And I promise eternal life to all who trust in me.
And that is where real peace is found, in a relationship with God that will last for eternity in heaven.
One of the things that I so admire about you is your boldness, you and your wife both.
And when I say boldness I'm not talking about coldness or being ruthless or mean-spirited.
I'm talking about having courage and you have that.
One of things that concerns me, and I want you to address this because who am I to address, but one of the thing that concerns me is I see a number of Christians even a number of Christian leaders and pastors sort of play it soft.
In other words, obviously they believe the gospel and they they believe that the Bible is the word of God But there's a point where I feel like they they're scared of really saying, okay, let me speak the truth in love, here's sin, repentance, here's the cross, here's resurrection, you, my friend, have a decision to make, you know.
I don't know if that makes sense, but how?
Of course it does.
Tell me about that.
Tell me, because I admire your boldness so much, but you do it with such love.
Well, that's very encouraging and kind of you to say it.
It's a fact.
No, the reality is I am not a very courageous guy.
The reality is, I struggle with fear.
But I've got to make a decision.
Am I going to allow my fear to paralyze me, or am I going to allow me fear to motivate me to trust Christ more deeply?
And Ed, to be honest with you, at two or three in the morning, I wake up at times fearful for my grandchildren or my children or fearful for the church or whatever.
And then I'm confronted by, just a few weeks ago, the slaughter of 45 believers in Congo, Africa.
Those guys gave their life for Christ.
And what on earth am I doing, getting all scared about what happens to me when I live in the comfort and the protection of Western society here in the United States?
And to tell you the truth, that's what helps me tremendously, to look at other men and women of faith.
That's great.
The passage that means so much to me in that area is Hebrews chapter 11 verses 32 to 38, where the author of Hebrews writes, What more shall I say?
I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets, who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised, who shut the mouths of lions, quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword, whose weakness was turned to strength, and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies.
Women receive back their dead from the grave again.
Some face jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
These are the great men and women of faith.
And what's Cliffe intimidated by?
Somebody saying, oh, you're a narrow-minded Bible thumper.
You're a a narrow minded fundamentalist Christian.
Oh, give me a break.
That's nothing compared to what those great men and women in faith went through.
So they are tremendously motivating to me, inspiring.
And so I look to the great man and women of faith.
Who put it on the line.
I mean, Peter was nailed to a cross, probably upside down, and Thomas was torn in half.
Because they knew Jesus had risen from the dead.
We're living for Christ.
If you want to kill us, go ahead and kill us.
Okay, what would you say to a pastor or to a Christian about, okay, how do I take that next step in boldness, in articulating my faith when the Holy Spirit of God, you know, gives us that opportunity?
And many times I've tamped down the Holy spirit and I look back and go, oh, man, and other times maybe I've gone before him.
What would you tell people?
How do we increase the boldness?
We all struggle with fear.
We all struggle with anxiety.
I certainly do.
And so did the young man Timothy.
And so Paul talks to his protege Timothy and says All right Timothy God has not given us a spirit of timidity but of power of love and of self control.
I like that power not machismo.
Yes.
But a deep confidence that God is true that Christ is reliable.
Love.
I'm gonna be driven by love for you.
If you don't know Christ, I wanna introduce you to Christ.
It's important that you put him at the center of your life, for he is the way through death, out the other side to eternal life.
And self-control.
I have got to grow in self- control of my emotions, my feelings, because when I get scared, when I got timid, as I do almost every time before I start on a campus, I'm sweating buckets already, I've gotta exercise self-control, allow those fears, and that timidity and that insecurity to be replaced with a confidence in Christ.
So this is not a cocky self-confidence.
I'm right and you're wrong.
That's right.
No, that's not what we're talking about.
We're talking about a confidence, in Christ, that he is reliable, he is true.
And I've just got to remember, I love Palm Sunday for a new reason, because I can relate to that donkey.
When Christ was riding that donkey into Jerusalem.
And the people were putting their garments on the ground and waving the palms and all, the donkey could have said, wow, these people are really excited to see me.
He'd have been an idiot.
Yes.
No, the donkey was carrying Jesus, and the were excited to know Jesus.
Well, that's what I've got to focus on.
The issue out here is Jesus Christ.
The issue is not Cliffe.
The issue not how I stumble or how I speak smoothly.
The issue Jesus Christ, and when I focus on Him, then I begin to have a courage.
A confidence that is based on him, not on me.
People have interviewed you all over the place, a lot of people in podcast, uh, the podcast world who have, you know, squillions of, of, uh, followers.
What are some of the most memorable interviews or podcasts that you've done and, and, and why I love George Jenko, he's been brutally honest and he's put his faith in Christ and I had the honor of doing his wedding out in Arizona and to watch him grow in his faith, to watch him really want to make Christ an issue in people's thinking, I have the utmost love and respect for.
Secondly, Logan Paul was a fascinating guy.
I like Logan a lot, he is a very nice guy.
And in our time together, Logan kept on coming back to.
How can Jesus be the only way to God?
Come on, Cliffe, that is really narrow-minded.
That's really, I mean, come on, Cliffe, that's ridiculous.
And he, you know, throughout the interview, he kept on coming back to that issue.
So it was fascinating to watch him do that.
And then Tucker Carlson is a fascinating guy, really nice guy.
And he's got a very fertile, active mind, he's a real thinker, and he also doesn't fit into the stereotypes that people like to put him into.
He's very honest with whoever he's talking to, including the President of the United States.
And I really respect the honesty, the directness of Tucker Carlson.
So it's been a real privilege to be in the presence of those three guys and to have a real good meaningful discussion with those three.
Going back to Logan, what would you challenge Logan to do?
Because he's having a problem with the exclusivity of Christ.
How do you unpack that, or what would you say to him if he was sitting in my seat?
Well, I think I would do it differently than I did it, if I had the opportunity to do it again.
Because every time he raised it, I kept going back to this point.
Somebody says all religions lead to God.
Is that a truth claim?
He said, no, I say yes, Logan, it is.
It's a truth claims.
What you're saying is every religion, every philosophy leads to God, leads to heaven or nirvana, whatever.
That's a true claim.
Because you're the majority of people on the planet are wrong because the majority of people are Muslim, Christian or Jew.
Yes.
If I were to say to you half the religions, half the philosophies lead to heaven, would that be a truth claimed?
I think he began to get it.
He said well I guess so, yeah.
I said, okay, now Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me.
Is that a truth claim?
He said, oh yeah, that's clearly a truth claims.
I said good.
Now, we're gonna be very honest with each other.
Everybody makes truth claims, everybody.
Even the person who says everything's relative is making a truth claimed.
I don't think you should believe him.
Because if everything's relatively, you're asking me not to believe you.
Because you're saying there is no such thing as truth.
Everything's relative.
All right, fine, you're asking me not to believe you, so I won't believe you.
But you're making a truth claim.
Everything's relative.
It's a self-contradictory truth claim, but it's still a truth-claim.
Now, I went back to that line of thinking, Ed, three or four times, and I wish I would have moved on.
And I wish would have said, Logan, let me explain why Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
First of all, it's because his unique identity.
He's God in human form.
He's not just another prophet or another teacher.
He's God in human form.
Secondly, Logan, he died a unique death.
His death on the cross was not just a martyr's death.
It was not someone dying for a cause.
He's got in human from laying down his life for you, Logan and for me, for all of us, to forgive us for our wrongdoing, to reconcile us to God and to give us eternal life.
And the third point, Logan is, the resurrection of Christ is totally unique.
The grave of Muhammad is full.
Maybe he ascended to heaven as Muslims like to say, if you want to believe that, go ahead.
But, I mean, I don't think there's much evidence to support it.
The grave of Buddha is filled, the grave of Shirley MacLaine will be fulfilled, my grave will be filled, all of us are gonna die, and we're not coming back unless Christ is the truth.
And then we will come back with a new body for eternity.
You see, Logan, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, because his identity is unique.
His death is unique and His resurrection is unique.
And I wish I would have said that to Logan because that has helped me when I'm thinking through, how do I grapple with Jesus claiming to be the way, the truth and the life?
That's a real stumbling block, isn't it, for a lot of people, and sometimes people use it as a sort of straw man because they don't want to deal with their sin issues.
Because when you give your life to Christ, when you become a follower of Christ, Cliffe, I think sometimes we can say, oh, everything's going to be happy and peppy and bursting with love, and it's just going to joy, and then we'll have this...
Glorious parade to heaven There are awesome times great times in life Yeah, but when we die to self the sanctification process is not easy.
Is it?
And brother, you know, I don't know if it's right for me to raise this.
Say it.
Okay.
It's obviously one of the reasons I respect you so much.
Yes.
You lost a child, and I don't think there's any greater pain in life than losing a child.
And yet you chose not to become bitter, not to harbor anger, and not to blame God.
And I respect that highly, and there's no greater example for me of exactly what you've said, that when you put your faith in Christ, yes, there are great times, just there's wonderful times.
But we are not shielded from all of life's injustices and pain.
And the way you've handled that, Ed, and your precious wife, Lisa, I have the utmost respect for, and I think it involves a lot of clear thinking, because your emotions are screaming out, as you know all too well.
It's you know definitely from the Lord is definitely the the the Holy Spirit of God that has comforted us and has taken us through it, but, you know, it's still going through something like that.
It's still, it still fresh in a weird way.
It's like a, it it's like, uh, a wound is kind of healed, but it's, you know, you can, it can, um, fester.
And I know your brother lost a child.
Yes.
So you've walked through this in, in some, some pretty deep ways.
It is.
And I also lost a young guy who was like a younger brother to me.
He was Layton Ford's son, Sandy.
He died on the operating table at Duke University Hospital.
I know Layton Ford.
Yeah, his son Sandy died.
Wow, he was the truck, didn't he run track too?
Sandy ran track.
Very good, Ed, that's right.
And then his heart would just take off and would start beating up, you know, a thousand percent too fast.
And so they made the decision.
The doctor at Duke has said we can go into the heart, open heart surgery, and cut that vessel where the electrical impulses keep going down.
It was sort of new in the research, and they had that surgery done, and Sandy's heart was outside of his body, they were trying to cut the right part of his heart, they put it back in and they just couldn't get the heart going again, and he died right there.
And to watch Layton agonize through that, to watch my brother agonized through that Obviously, I haven't had as close a...
Relationship with you as I did with them but to watch you deal with your loss of your daughter and to read about how you worked it through I have the utmost respect for you three gentlemen.
Let me change the subject now to basketball, Cliffe.
Cliffe played basketball at Davidson Division I school.
A lot of people say he was better than Steph Curry.
Some people say that.
They've been taking drugs.
Now, Cliffe, looking back on your basketball career, when you were playing competitively for teams, et cetera, is there one game that stood out where you were like, man, I'm on fire?
Tell us about that.
Like when you really felt.
Because, I mean, I think all athletes have that one game or two games where like, man, that was.
Oh, brother, I never really got to play in the games.
Oh, come on, I've seen your jump shot.
Don't play the humble card, Cliffe, I know.
That's a plain humble card, it's the truth.
I had good seats for every game.
Well, I did too.
I got to play and practice.
Yeah, but I only hear about, well, maybe high school though.
Let me hear something.
Well I had one in college, it was during the summer camp that we had at Davidson, and Bobby Jones from UNC Chapel Hill.
Now, let me stop.
Bobby Jones, you guys need to Google him.
This guy was unreal.
So I got to play on the same team with Bobby Jones.
He's a believer, too.
Oh, great believer.
Great believer.
And so someone gave me an outlet pass.
I started dribbling down the court, got to the center, to the middle of the court.
And Bobby Jones was running down the left side of the Court.
And I looked at him and I went like that up to the hoop.
And he nodded at me.
And so he took a beeline from half court off on the left side to the Hoop.
And I threw the ball up right next to the hoop.
All six foot nine inches of Bobby Jones reaches up, grabs the ball, and Tomahawk dunks it.
And, you know, I didn't run back down the court.
I floated back down in the court after that experience.
That is a fantastic story.
Bobby Jones, of course, NBA All-Pro, Bobby Jones of course played with the Sixers, with the doctor, Julius Irving.
I've got a great story about the doctor.
Yes.
I haven't told anyone this before.
There was a guy in our church back in South Carolina who played for years in the NBA and ABA.
Well, he was on Dr.
J's team.
And he told us about him.
And that's, we didn't really know, Dr.
Jay, What Julie is serving.
We drove up to Charlotte, North Carolina, and watched Dr.
J when he first came into the NBA.
Incredible.
Uh, I mean...
There are very few players now who can do some of the stuff Dr.
J did.
Didn't he put his faith in Christ in a pretty- I believe he did, yes.
Sincere, powerful way.
That's exciting.
I've always loved Julius Erving.
So guess what?
Maybe in heaven you and I can play with Dr.
J a little hoop.
I would love it.
You know who else was a strong Christian is Pete Marovitch.
Yes, when did he come to, wasn't it with James Dobson he came to faith?
Something like that, yeah.
Playing ball with James Dobson.
Yeah, and he really, his testimony was one of the most powerful testimonies I've ever heard.
Oh boy, he could shoot the rock.
Man, oh man.
It was like watching him play, it's like the ball was tied to a string.
And now, Cliffe, you really love fishing too, don't you?
You love fishing.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm projecting.
Really?
You know, Cliffe, we're gonna go fishing you and me and I can't wait for this and we're going to bring the cameras out.
I get squeamish, man.
So Cliffe, so seriously, what do you like to do?
I mean, obviously, you like play basketball.
Yes.
You play some golf.
No.
No.
And what else?
What would you tell people, like, man, that's interesting.
I didn't know that about Cliffe.
What would say about your?
Well, I really love to play with my six granddaughters.
And we wrestle on the bed.
I have three sons and we used to wrestle on the bed and I thought with granddaugthers, they're never gonna wanna wrestle.
But they love wrestling and having me throw them around on the bad and I get to play a horse on the bed and they get on my back and then I get to try and throw them off and see how long they can stay on the buck and bronco.
And then we got a little pony and they're learning how to clean poop, pony poop and feed the pony and we have a blast.
Do you ever ride the pony or you're a little bit big?
I'm too big.
But they do.
Yeah.
We're trying to teach them how to ride.
Yes.
And then what I really enjoy doing with them is I take them to my office and I sit them on my desk and then we do memory verses.
And they're learning as little girls to do memory versus and then I got a bunch of yogurt covered raisins and afterwards we do high fives and we eat the yogurt covered raisins.
So they are just an absolute delight.
They bring such joy to my wife and me.
Well I want to add fishing to your life.
And you'll be taking your granddaughter's fishing and you'll like, Ed, thank you for introducing me to a biblical sport.
What did Jesus say?
Followers, fish.
Cliffe Knechtle, I love him.
His wife is even better than he is.
That's for sure.
Sharon, and you'll be hearing more from us, especially on our next fishing excursion.
It's gonna be classic.