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Two founders talk about how to build software businesses that are meant to last. Each episode includes a deep dive into a different topic related to starting, growing, and sustaining a healthy business.
00:01.10
Rick
Well I Just like to announce that you are officially a leg up health partner papered and signed and.
00:01.28
tylerking
What's up Rick.
00:07.73
tylerking
I Am yes we've we've talked about this on previous podcast episodes that we had kind of like reached a verbal agreement but um, now it's more than verbal. It's official. Yeah, any. Ah.
00:17.54
Rick
You're you're locked in. You're stuck with me.
00:23.77
tylerking
For the sake of trying to make good radio here any like takeaways from the process of writing up a contract or any of that stuff.
00:29.42
Rick
I Don't think so I I think mostly just wanted to share that it's done and you know there's a it's easy to celebrate. It doesn't feel real until it's real and now it feels very real. Um I felt Pseudo real but not real real and now it feels real real and I feel like we're executing. Um, but I would just say.
00:44.15
tylerking
Yeah, so oh yeah, good.
00:49.42
Rick
Get it done like the biggest takeaway is ah, get it just get it done I think I probably let it drag out too long. We could have helped this way probably I'm month up.
00:54.95
tylerking
Yeah, so to to give context to anyone who hasn't been falling along like we have been leg up health is your business less annoying serum's mine. We've been I joined kind of as a side project for me to be the tech person at leg up health but like. I've been working on it since March ish midmarch um, we I forget when we kind of talked about a loose arrangement but then in mid -april I flew out to utah kind of did a work retreat with you out there and we. Renegotiated it because the the point was like originally I was just going to do a little one off project and then move on and it's like how do you compensate me for that and now it's like I want to stay involved kind of for the fairly long term and so we kind of renegotiated and we had in a basic agreement in mid-april. But we didn't sign it until last weekend.
01:49.80
Rick
Yep yep and I that was mostly me just like not moving fast on it. So.
01:55.21
tylerking
Yeah I don't yeah fair enough I I certainly wasn't ah feeling antsy about it. We've worked together enough that it's like you know this is going to be fine I Guess if we were more strangers. It would be like I the person in my position might be like am I doing a lot of work without. Having an agreement signed but cool. Yeah I'm excited like like like a puls happening and I mean it's already been going long before this but my my involvement in it is happening.
02:12.68
Rick
Yep.
02:20.49
Rick
Well as a partner I'd like to update you on something we have a partner meeting every month and we I think we have our next one a week from Monday. Um, so but I'll tell you now on the podcast One of the my concerns coming into the last partner meeting was we're working on a project with a marketing coach. Who's helping J D and I Um, think through our positioning leg up health our branding and our story we're we're in the midst of repositioning ah from being for consumers to being for small business owners and people that that are associated with small businesses and self-employed um and ah. I was struggling with the project a little bit felt like questioning whether it was a good use of time I was feeling like we were stuck and just like going in circles which often you feel about when you're talking about marketing projects I'm happy to report that we are like over like 75% done and it looks pretty good like.
03:15.99
tylerking
Um, when when you say it looks good like what you don't literally mean like looks this isn't a design thing like what are you seeing that you like.
03:16.78
Rick
I'm actually pretty excited about it. Um, we've worked.
03:22.55
Rick
Um, the words ah, who were for um, you know and and how we describe our differentiation. Um, those kinds of things. Um, it's still not done so it's like I can't really say hey this is what it is. Um, a couple things that I would like what we got into today and and finalize were some change little tweaks to our mission statement but it just feels like all the like we took what we had which was like an idea you know from three years ago and we basically have refreshed it and it's all in sync now and very focused and i. Believe what will what it will lead to is um as I step away for paternity like yeah and like as as we we shift from like talking about what we who we are and what we do and we shift towards telling other people about that as the primary focus. It's going to be very easy. For our marketing coach garret and jd to like craft copy and experiment without like like creating a new business in the in the ah process of doing that like they're going to stay aligned to this like central belief I think you did that really good job of this naturally at the early days of less knowing serum where you had your like.
04:30.32
tylerking
No.
04:39.40
Rick
This is how I think about business you know, internal documentation. Um, and I think people align to that That's kind of what this is where it's like you know here's how we think about what we do and who we do it for and why we're different and I'm really excited about it.
04:50.70
tylerking
Yeah, it's interesting because you know I kind of roll my eyes at all this stuff like especially for a smaller kind of more early stage company. But even for more like every time a big company like changes their logo so it has a new font and then they write this blog post. It's like here's how this font Conveys trust or you know some bullshit like that.
05:09.51
Rick
It.
05:09.52
tylerking
Um I hate that stuff not not that. That's what you're doing right now but I hadn't quite thought of it before as you were working on this like I I trust everything's going on. It seems like Garen is what hesuing but like it's probably not how I would have approached it but it does I've only ever been in a situation where I'm the one. Doing the marketing in the air like not not now for lessening serum. We have a marketer but like we're 14 years in in the early days of lessening serum I was doing the marketing. It is different what you just said that like you're the Ceo. It's kind of your vision. But you're not the primary person talking to customers. You're going to be gone for a while other people are going to have to do work. It does it does resonate a little bit with me that going like I would have said just go do the work stop planning the work and go do the work. But if you're going to have other people doing the work that needs to be true to your vision I guess it does make sense to to spend more time on like figuring out what the words should be.
06:01.26
Rick
I Like how you said a little bit it it makes it a little bit. Yeah, but yeah, like yeah, it's not your style at all. But no like I think we're we're we're gonna lead. We're goingnna end this with like a pretty solid foundation to run experimentation on it iterate together without me.
06:05.23
tylerking
A little bit I'm I'm not going to say this is my style but.
06:19.48
tylerking
Yeah.
06:19.61
Rick
Being involved on a day to day and I think that is a win. Um, yeah I'd like to share a mission statement like your new mission statement because I I think it's pretty cool. Um making people's health insurance experience. Simple pleasant and cost effective.
06:26.80
tylerking
Um, right I'll hear it.
06:31.45
tylerking
Nice I Assume a lot of thought was put into each of those words is there like it like explanation or it should be itself. Yeah.
06:37.22
Rick
No, it was. It was very obvious that this was our mission after we went through what our Target market was what our positioning statement is what our different trader differentiators are and so once we did through those exercises it was like oh like that's what that's what we're on a mission to do.
06:54.21
tylerking
Yeah, simple, pleasant cost effective and again there right? Cool I like it. That's a that's a pretty no bullshit mission statement which versus like you know make the world a better place through blah blah blah or whatever. Um I like it.
06:56.10
Rick
Um, yep.
07:06.19
Rick
Like we're going to change Health care one person at a time like what? Yeah so um, yeah, like the other thing I would share is like we we've we've positioned ourselves historically as a health insurance agent or a health insurance agency.
07:11.40
tylerking
But yeah, it explains what it is I like it.
07:25.55
Rick
We're we're shifting from that to health insurance consultant which is I think a little bit. Um ah broader and and and more aligned to what we're trying to do a couple other things like that we're what we're saying is like. Um, we're targeting ah ut test startups and small businesses versus Utah consumers. That's a big change. Um in in our positioning. Um.
07:42.84
tylerking
Are sorry you're saying we're are you saying consumers and startups in small businesses or the like startups and small businesses are the primary audience.
07:54.60
Rick
They're the primary audience their're icp and that's who are for. And yeah, if you're I mean and we we looked at pretty much every client. Um I think there's like 1 to 5% of our clients that are not um, associated with a startup or small business.
08:08.44
tylerking
Interesting. Okay, so you it's yeah, the focus It's not that you're not serving client individual consumers. It's that they the positioning of we're for small businesses still applies to them.
08:22.45
Rick
Yes, because there are 2 drivers of health insurance decisions. The first is employment. The second is life events and ah ah, employment drives everything so ah, fundamentally like we believe that if we're well positioned for the ah small business market in Utah. Ah, we're we're going to capture the consumer side and we'll still obviously like have ah marketing activity that that captures consumers that are looking for health insurance and we'll have messaging for that. But as far as like positioning the brand and the you know the homepage and the you know what legup help is like it'll it'll start at the at the business level and you know.
08:41.40
tylerking
Yeah.
08:59.95
Rick
Ah, lead into the consumer side versus the the way around which is what we're doing right now which is we're consumers and then oh do you work for a business we do business.
09:00.95
tylerking
Yeah, cool.
09:07.57
tylerking
Yeah, and so is this is this going to go like what? what's the timeline for this all going into effect.
09:14.75
Rick
I think we're going to wrap it up next Thursday um, so the final piece is a story. We've done our positioning which is like messaging. It's like the core we've done our brand um, which is stuff like you know who? what do you want to sound like are we customer focused core values that kind of stuff mission. And then we are now working on our story and ah trying to craft this into like in the like the old way of working with ah with a health insurance. Broker is like this and it's crappy you know and the new way is working with a health insurance consultant like legup help like this. Um and it's way better. Um, it's.
09:40.32
tylerking
Yeah.
09:45.58
tylerking
And.
09:49.71
Rick
You know it's way more pleasant, simple and a cost effective. Um, so that's the idea I'm excited we we did change one core value through this exercise as well. Um, but everything else stood the test which I was pretty excited about we changed ah sustainability um to recharge.
09:52.69
tylerking
Cool sounds good.
10:09.48
Rick
Because we we we did We determined that sustainability was something that we was more aspirational and actually not something we were living um and so the essence of that was like if you burn out like don't let yourself burn out like.
10:22.78
tylerking
I like that So sustainability kind of implies. It's always calm recharge implies. There's going to be hard seasons and and calm seasons and and yeah, that actually Segways perfectly I don't want to like.
10:22.99
Rick
Open Enrollment's going to be tough but in the offseasons make sure that you're recharging so that you can do another sprint during open enrollment.
10:38.40
Rick
I go.
10:40.35
tylerking
If if okay, that goes perfectly into my first point here which is things are not calm at less annoying s hereum right now. This is one of the most kind of hectic periods partially for me but mostly for the dev team. Especially um, that that we've maybe ever had. Um, there's kind of a perfect storm of. Like Robert who's kind of the manager of the dev team is on sabbatical right now and ah he used to just do a lot of stuff that now other people have to do and some things naturally slipped through he did a great job of preparing for his departure but some things slipped through the cracks. Um. We just launched this big redesign which means a lot of like little bugs nothing major but there's just like if you look at the bug tracker there's forty things on there instead of 5 just like all these tiny little ui things that we missed and we have interns and fellows who have started and they just need a ton of mentorship and we have to find projects for them to work on and pure. Pair program with them and all this stuff and um so there's basically only 3 developers right now. Ah able to do anything and all their time is spent on bug fixes and mentoring. So. It's definitely feeling kind of stressful right now.
11:46.60
Rick
Um, in a good way or like a way that you're like I'm ready for it to go back to calm.
11:48.69
tylerking
Yeah, not a good way. Um I think it's fine I I think everyone has enough perspective to know like this is temporary. We can point at the exact causes but like 1 of the reasons I say this segways so nicely from what you just said is I have not set this culture up to be ready for this. Like we're normally calm all the time. Um and like the teams. It's everyone's a team player. Everyone's a good sport about it but like the if I'm being honest, the amount of stress we have right now is probably what typical companies have all the time. Um I don't think it's like a crazy amount of stress.
12:08.10
Rick
Um, and then.
12:27.41
tylerking
But because we're not used to it. It's like more of a problem than it would be otherwise. Um so I like that you made recharge like 1 of your values because it says to people like it's not an accident when this happens we're planning for. Busy periods which I think is a useful thing to plan for.
12:46.60
Rick
Yeah, thank you? Um, how are you going to deal with what you're dealing with right now. Are you just going to let it play. Are you going to try to try to coach people through it. Um are you are you? um, are you are you trying? are you just are you worried about it.
12:58.13
tylerking
I wouldn't say I'm worried I'm I'm only I'm worried in the sense like it's not like being in the office and being right? You can tell a couple people are on edge a little bit again I think this is how it is everywhere else all the time. It's not I don't want to overblow what's going on but ah i. I'm I'm planning on waiting a week I think a week from now. Everything will be fine. Um, if it's not then I probably need to do something especially because halfway through the following week I'm going to Greece for ten days it's not a great look for me to be chilling on a beach while everyone else is stressing out. Um. So if things aren't calm the last few days I'm in the office I'll probably like talk to you and be like all right I'm just saying like I'm taking half the bugs and saying don't work on them until I'm back or yeah I don't I don't know if that's it I just made that up of the top my head but like something ah I don't think this should go on for. Multiple weeks. But if it's another week or maybe 2 I think that would be fine. Yeah, but also I love having interns and fellows. But this is like we we always know chaos is coming and we never like no matter how much you plan for it. It's never enough, you still get in the moment you're like.
13:49.85
Rick
Yeah, that makes sense.
14:07.28
tylerking
Wow I thought I spent a lot of time preparing the project's interns who be working on and Nope I've got to do a lot more planning than I thought you know that type of thing Anyway, um I've got a handful of just kind of mostly unrelated topics to talk about. She just dive into one of them. Um.
14:22.32
Rick
I Would love to.
14:26.35
tylerking
Right? So one is I wanted your thoughts on this. So like man I'm going to really look like a fickle person here ah less annoying business is a website I started. Ah I talked about it on the podcast. Um that the origin story here is a long time Ago. We blogged on less annoying crm. Back when blogging like worked better than it does now I think like you could just write random articles and they'd get traction like in 2010 or whatever we stopped doing that for a variety of reasons and then like years later I think it was probably 20202021 I said You know we're still getting a decent amount of traffic from all those blog posts those old ones like what if I kept doing what if I had just been blogging this whole time would we just have this massive content engine. That's how I remember the origin story here is that mesh with what you remember me telling you.
15:14.86
Rick
Yeah, and you've done this once before with Tyler King Dot Net I believe ah yeah I yep I remember.
15:16.97
tylerking
Well yeah, that was before less annoing cm I've done various blogging adventures many times. Yes, yep Tyler King Dot Net I ripped off mince web design from back in the day and made my own website.
15:29.40
Rick
Yes, and ah, you've did it. You basically did the same thing but instead of branding it Tyler King you branded it less knowing business. Um, now it's you it's a personal ball. It's Tyler. It's Tyler's thoughts on being a less running a less moneying business.
15:34.20
tylerking
Yeah, but it was basically my personal blog like. Yeah, and I I took some content from the lessening serm blog moved it over and did all the redirects and stuff but the idea is it wasn't about crm it wasn't about less knowing sers about yeah my thoughts on entrepreneurship or whatever I ended up stop I didn't continue writing on there. Mostly because like what I realize is the people who are interested in that just are not an audience I'm interested in building I also like reflecting since then it's really tempting I think a lot of people get this where there's just like if you have any ego at all which we all do you want people to follow you and you want like the idea of having an audience is so intoxicating. The work of actually doing it is miserable and the the people who are great at it like the the people out there who have like one hundred Thousand Twitter followers in a big newsletter. It. It is a grind like they make it look easy but they are.
16:22.53
Rick
Um.
16:33.50
tylerking
Constantly constantly just in content creation mode. It's It's really not a type of work I'm interested in. Yeah.
16:36.41
Rick
And from what I can tell they're they're on Twitter all day just responding and tweeting and liking and replying and I just I don't know.
16:44.42
tylerking
Yeah, every once in a while I tweet something that gets like not actually viral but you know like a thousand likes or something and it it consumes like 2 or three full days of first of all the addiction of seeing notifications rolling in but all these comments are happening and then people are replying to the replies and I feel like I need to be in there. Yeah I don't know how people with yeah ah god it's such like I I know social media ruins people's mental health but like especially the people who have that taste of success I would think and anyway, um.
17:05.17
Rick
Um, and then and then you want to recreate that tweet ah with your with your next tweet. So there's there's performance pressure. It's a trap.
17:22.23
tylerking
So I don't really want to be in the the game of content I realized like and I was appealing to an audience that I like having a network of other founders but I don't necessarily like I don't want an audience of other founders if that makes sense. Um, so I've kept lessening business up there everyone. So I'll I'll write something but ah.
17:41.40
tylerking
So I want to combine this with what I said in the last episode which is we realized like a lot of the marketing stuff we had been doing. Maybe it was working. We just didn't know it so like. For example, when we stopped like I think maybe our blog was doing some providing some value for us because it was generating traffic. It wasn't converting to leads but maybe like. Impressions like brand marketing stuff. Maybe it was helping so the thought is like given that I'm not active on lessening business anyway, should we just move all those posts back to lessening crm and kind of maybe even continue blogging I don't know but like yeah, get if anyone sees a post. I'd rather them see lessening here I'm instead of lessening business I guess is where I'm going with this um, not a firm decision I actually I was interested in what you thought about this. But um, you eunice and I you would yeah I feel so stupid because like what I said when launching lessening business was like.
18:22.57
Rick
Yeah, are you going to do it or have you made a decision. Oh okay I mean I would do it I would do it? yeah.
18:39.47
tylerking
The whole thing here is longevity and all I have to do is stick to this and just keep this website running in tenure and now I'm like abandoning it again. So it's just like that. That's that's fair.
18:44.10
Rick
but you're not, you're not abandonning it. You're merging it I think I actually think that you're doubling down on it. Um, you're're're you're iterating and doubling down in my opinion. So I actually don't think that at all um, the one. The one thing I'll say is like I think ah there were a couple of if I look back at when this happened like this was close to like.
18:54.50
tylerking
Okay, okay.
19:04.30
Rick
Tooth long after we started the podcast. It was not too long after you like were trying some other things you were going through this crisis of like um, what? what are my hobbies. Um, and I think you've like experimented with that a little bit. You've experimented with this. You've experimented with investing you've experimented with ah traveling Um, and ah, you've experimented with like.
19:10.60
tylerking
Learn.
19:23.84
Rick
Helping out like a health and being a mentor to other businesses and I I think like this is just the natural evolution of ah figuring out like how you want to spend your time. Um, and I think ah I would just say like you're you're not saying this isn't a productive use of someone's time you're saying I don't want to be the face of this as Tyler King um but I do want to continue doing this and I I seems like a completely the right decision.
19:46.12
tylerking
yeah okay yeah I think that's I hadn't quite thought of it in that way that before it was like I want my Twitter followers to care about what I write on lessening business and I might still write a post and if it's relevant I'll share it on Twitter but like. This is a blog about for the business for our customers. Yeah, it's not me trying to build my personal brand or anything like that. Um, and yeah, that's also a good point like my my outlook on a lot of stuff has changed since joining leg up health because I do think for someone like me. Like I'm very committed to lessening serm and it's a big part of my identity which I think is fine. It's good to have another thing I don't have kids you know I don't I don't have like a major hobby I you're probably right I don't know if I ever said it this way on the podcast that I was like looking for a hobby leg up health is it now and. Partially like I like the work that I'm doing it like up health and that more than blogging. But I think the biggest thing is just that there are stakes this blog never needed to work like and it was never going to work if even if it was going to work. It was going to work in a small way. The fact that like you and j d. Rely on the work I'm doing and there's like real like people's livelihoods at stake here makes it so much more fulfilling to work on leg of health than that blog.
21:06.67
Rick
Yeah, and like yeah, totally um and I think I like I just think for me like 1 of the things I get out of leg up health too is um that I don't get out of the writing that I do is the impact on other people like building a business that there's a big difference between like.
21:20.25
tylerking
Um, yeah.
21:23.99
Rick
Um, I know I think writing has impact on people and I I'm sure that a lot of people have been helped by the writing and finding like your Youtube videos and stuff like that and they'll continue to find it because it'll live on less knowing you know Sierra to come. So is it like wasted but like um, there, there's um anyway I think like there's It's a solo effort. That's 1 thing like you're doing it by yourself in this silos or there isn't this a relationship build that happens if the people that are coming across the content interacting with you aren't like the people you want to go travel with um and you know drink beers with and like why why would why put like why make that this extra thing roll it into what you're already doing. Um.
21:58.40
tylerking
Yeah.
22:00.82
Rick
So it makes total sense to me I'm so happy that this that you're at Leg Upel I just got to I just got to like I'm I'm taking notes like what are the things that demotivate Tyler what are the things I don't I don't I don't ah like about the leg I help to lose Tyler so how do I how do I keep those things going I think it's you know, keeping it interesting and fun and like the challenge. Um.
22:19.61
tylerking
Yeah, yeah, um, okay, cool I was a little worried you're going to push back on that im where I'm glad I'm relieved. Ah, okay next topic No no, not.
22:20.90
Rick
As well.
22:26.98
Rick
What? yeah so I'm at wind with you spending time I'm I'm a I'm a just kidding.
22:34.18
tylerking
Not obviously you're cool with me working on leg of health instead of blogging. But there's a lot I my reflecting on myself. There's just a lot of flip flopping going on with our content strategy throughout the years
22:42.97
Rick
I think um what I think you when you talk to me about like like when leg up couple is just a project. It was like oh this is interesting like I'm another one of Tyler's experiments right? like because I've I've kind of looked at that like I think you do I think you do a good job of running experiments in life and in business and.
22:57.43
tylerking
Um, nothing.
23:02.97
Rick
I Think over the last few years you've run a lot of experiments in terms of how to spend your time. This was one of those things. It didn't work like like like I it's okay I Just don't want leg upheld to be that.
23:08.66
tylerking
Yeah, okay, fair enough I appreciate that? Yeah no I mean well yeah I'm I'm I'm committing to leg of health in a way that I did not commit to blogging. Ah yep, stakes matter. Um all right next thing on my list. Ah.
23:20.35
Rick
Stakes That's the key.
23:25.61
tylerking
Probably switching from stripe to Paddle um have we talked about this on the podcast yet.
23:32.24
Rick
Yes, we have talked about um, just just for context I believe that this is your billing and payments platform for lessings here M Ah Stripe Stripe has frustrated you in some way shape or form and you've decided to look elsewhere.
23:39.24
tylerking
Um, yes.
23:45.67
tylerking
Not exactly that they've frustrated me I mean I'm reasonably happy with stripe for what they do, but this is mostly about tax sales tax compliance. Um, and yeah I don't want to repeat myself I've already gone to this whole spiel. But.
23:55.93
Rick
That's right.
23:59.90
Rick
Go again because I don't remember.
24:03.47
tylerking
Yeah, so I feel like this kind of got on my radar because Justin Jackson um talked about this on. Ah, what's his podcasts with John Buddha ah build your sass. Um, where just talking about so okay when Sas started it was like it's not a product well when sets started nothing sold online.
24:11.57
Rick
Trip that are set.
24:21.91
tylerking
Was taxed was like sales tax. Um, Amazon who had a presence in Washington could sell me something in Missouri and like there was no sales tax for that thing and then gradually like as Amazon built locations in places like if you have a physical nexus. They call it then like. So they have a fulfillment center. Let's say in Chicago but not St Louis so illinois people have to pay sales tax on Amazon but St Louis people don't now in theory even in that time anyone who bought something on Amazon was supposed to pay the sales tax themselves they were supposed to pay it to Missouri no one did obviously. But it's the sales tax is the responsibility of the person buying the thing not the person selling the thing right at the same time in addition to that software isn't even a physical good and so like it's taxed differently. Maybe whatever anyway, over the years. It's been like. States have said no, you have to pay sales tax for software and it's still again. The the customer's responsibility but the state says if you hit over a certain threshold if you have over 200 transactions per year or whatever in our state. It's the company has to charge the customer sales tax and then remit it to the state. That's my understanding of the history here. Are you familiar with all that does that match your understanding.
25:40.22
Rick
Yeah, we'retuit it people keep um this was kind of like towards a tail end where we were hitting volume and if you don't fix it. The other thing I would say once you get past certain stage this becomes a huge like potential liability. You've got to worry about being sort of ah called upon to collect. Um.
25:56.37
tylerking
yeah yeah I should say we've been doing sales tax in the states we have a ah physical presence in which is Missouri Illinois Massachusetts and Texas so we're already doing this in some states but it's like you know we we sell worldwide and it's not just states.
25:56.88
Rick
And that's the the reason to solve for it. So.
26:13.34
tylerking
In theory there's vat in the eu and that has to be paid to each country in the eu separately even though it's kind of 1 big concept and then every country has different roles around this and like it it even goes more narrow than states where like the city of Chicago has made their own Sas sales tax rules. Apparently. So like even if you want to comply it's like impossible a company our size can't be registered with you know fifty states the city of Chicago and another hundred countries. So. It's just like how like how are you supposed to comply with this. Um, what stripe has is a thing called stripe tax where they will calculate. They will like charge your customers the taxes the sales tax that they owe. But then it's still up to us to to remit it remit meaning paying the tax on behalf of our customers to the governments which means we have to register with every single one of these places it I honestly.
27:06.49
Rick
In some ways Stripe is creating more work for you.
27:07.43
tylerking
Something has like this This is a completely untenable. Well, it's not Stripe's fault. They didn't cause the problem. It's just that they're not solving the problem right? And as far as understand There's really no way to solve it with a model like stripes. So a paddle does is they are immersion of record where.
27:13.85
Rick
But.
27:25.27
tylerking
Technically our customers are buying our product from paddle like we're licensing it to paddle and paddles selling it to our customers. Our customers are going to be completely oblivious to the fact that that's happening but then so basically paddle is making all the revenue from our customers they have to be responsible for taxes but they have like thousands of customers like us.
27:42.85
Rick
It's brilliant.
27:42.94
tylerking
So they pay taxes to all these places and then they just give us 1 payment and all we have to from a tax standpoint. It's as if we only have one customer in its paddle. Yeah I mean there's a lot of downside to it like a lot. Ah.
27:51.90
Rick
It's but it's amazing, but but tell me like could you do this? could you have like paddle for international customers and then stripe for us customers if you wanted to or are you doing everything through battle.
28:06.75
tylerking
Yeah, you could definitely do that. Um I'm not so side note paddles like does the whole Enterprise sales process I've never really been a buyer of Enterprise anything prior to this and I got to say I don't I don't like the experience at all. Not not that not that Paddle's doing it poorly. Actually think I think my my rep there might be listening this I'm having a good time with Paddle. That's not what I'm trying to say but it's just there's like contracts and all that I'm not actually sure what I'm allowed to say but I'll say I know like I there's.
28:31.51
Rick
She have you signed contracts to be able to talk about buying battle.
28:39.46
tylerking
I spent well I haven't signed anything yet but I spent I there's an eighteen page legal document and 18 pages doesn't sound like much but when it's legal ease it I spent like hours and hours this week reading this fucking thing. Um, so I'm not sure I'm allowed to share like the exact specifics of the agreement but we have to hit a certain volume. In the first two years or else we owe paddle a lot of money. Um, so we can go. We could say like like look like in the us at stripe ah internationally it's paddle but we couldn't do that entirely because we have to hit this volume number to get the deal that we got if that makes sense.
29:12.63
Rick
Wow, That's a great business I Love this business I I'm.
29:15.82
tylerking
Yeah, it's That's yeah, the government has for like there's I don't know what else to do? Um, It's a lot more expensive ah than elite like we're using a very cheap version of stripe right now because we don't use Stripe Billing. We don't use any of their subscription logic. It's just a dumb like Credit. It's like. Less than 3% plus a transaction fee. So The price is going way up. Our customers are probably going to get a worse experience because they aren't going to understand what Paddle is but that they're kind of forced to like their credit card statements going to say like Paddle dash lessening crms like little things like that are worse. But it's the only way I can tell to to be in compliance with tax stuff.
29:56.11
Rick
It just makes me think of like there's probably other business models out there that could be disrupted by like becoming a one to a 1 to many on behalf of everyone else like Pes do this when group health insurance. That's an analogy. Um.
30:07.26
tylerking
Um, yeah, oh yeah, that's true.
30:11.79
Rick
Ah, the other one is general agents Insurance. Do this. So um, the the kind of the role of a general agent is to do all the contracting with carrier so that you can just contract contract with the general agent and they sort of break out this back office but I haven't like seen it with a government before like this is interesting like you have these this regulatory requirement and all this Stuff. It's like. I Trying to think of like what a parallel would be in like a consumer world like use our drive use. Our driver's license for every state or like I don't I don't like our you can be a resident at every state but by by using our ah you know I don't know. Ah I don't know how to how to replicate this.
30:35.70
tylerking
Right.
30:44.65
tylerking
Yeah, and it's really weird like the the contract that I was reading through like part of it is like if we get sued because your product did something wrong like they have to define that like less like if Paddle get like because paddles technically selling our Product. You could imagine someone selling paddle a suing paddle when it's our faults. Or whatever. So There's lots of weird I Yeah, it's a strange arrangement. But anyway, we're pretty close to finalizing it. Um, and there's like I wish we didn't have to do this but also it'll I think be a big weight off. Once once it happens that just like it simplifies our revenue stream from one yeah taxes like various other things like that.
31:30.44
Rick
Ah, payroll is probably a good analogy like this is fundamentally like frankly you like could go deal with the tax taxes to pay your employees. Um, but but but you know payroll companies exist to like do that for you and you know when they see the check. They don't see less annoying crm they see gusto.
31:34.22
tylerking
Um.
31:36.86
tylerking
Yeah, that's true.
31:47.27
Rick
On their paycheck payroll and then Gusta makes you sign all this stuff to say like you're the ultimate you know, responsible party here but we'll we'll do all this for you.
31:56.70
tylerking
Yeah I think the Pe analogy is better that like Gusto's doing it on our behalf like when we pay payroll taxes to the government like we're paying payroll tax. Got yeah um, but yeah, so.
32:03.83
Rick
Po and that is paying. Yeah, that's interesting. That's a good point P is better. Yeah.
32:12.58
tylerking
If anyone else out there wants to chat about Paddle or whatever I'm happy to we haven't actually like launched yet. So I can't I can't say what the results will be but I think we're pretty much committed, um all right. You want to you want to do a topic.
32:25.70
Rick
Well very cool. Yeah, so on the on the I was talking about payroll and I guess that's a segue into what I was going to talk about around group health insurance. We're we're having some learnings. Um, so one of the things. My last business that I always wanted to avoid was touching. People's paychecks and taking money out of their paychecks to pay for things and I'm being reminded about why right now we've brought on our first couple of group customers. The ones. Ah so so. I mentioned we were focused on consumers. We've been shifting towards more employer focused and I think we have 4 or five group health insurance clients now where we ah where it works very differently on the consumer side. The consumer pays the health insurance directly to the insurance company. The employer is not involved in the payment on the employer side. The employer sort of gets bill. And aggregate by the insurance company and then takes money out of the employee's checks for their portion. Um each month and that like requires a lot of coordination on the back office side with payroll. Um gusto is a small business payll system in the us. That's like really good like they're increasing market share. They have a health insurance service. And so we we we stole for lack of a better word, a client from gusto um, and one of the advantages for gusto is if you have their health insurance through gusto they automate the payroll deductions and so we're in this nightmare of like of of helping the.
33:46.66
tylerking
Ah.
33:51.82
Rick
A particular customer manage their payroll deductions manually in gusto after not having to do that and it's a challenge. Um, but what you know j d and I talked about today is like hey this isn't a unique challenge like every customer who work with on group health insurance has to do payroll deductions and us having a playbook for this has to work. But it's especially painful because moving to us has resulted in a degradation of service and a de a degradation of like employee experience in this area of payilll deductions and so it made me want to bring this topic to you and just share like hey isn't this stupid group health church sex like blah blah blah blah is so stupid that.
34:14.11
tylerking
Yeah, yeah.
34:30.31
Rick
Employers are paying for consumer products payroll and then the yeah, go ahead.
34:30.47
tylerking
Yeah, and is it correct when we bought insurance we we use gusto for insurance we were told like you the the employer has to pay at least 50% is that pretty much across the board. True. Yeah.
34:44.63
Rick
That's across the board irrespective of the peril system and then the the perductions only come in to play when the employer is paying less than 100%
34:52.90
tylerking
Right? So the the deduction is not the part. The employer is paying the deductions the part The employee is paying. Okay, right.
34:59.80
Rick
Correct yep and so anyway, um, just made me think like 1 like dang it. This is the this is the hard part of entrepreneurship when you have to like learn by serving customers and like it sucks to be that customer. Um, so sorry this customer we're just handling it right? and like we're. In this Situation. We're saying like listen, we're gonna make this right and if we can't we'll help you we will roll out the red Carpet. Ah for you to go back to Gusto and there's no other way to handle that. Ah.
35:25.60
tylerking
Is there I mean like you said this is going to happen with every employer client right? Like how is this is this like an existential threat to the idea of selling group insurance.
35:37.43
Rick
Ah, clearly not. It's unique to gusto and this and this particular customer who has I think it's ah there there are a couple of issues one is a us not being like ahead of this and explaining like hey like we have a new responsibility So it's a learning and then you know this is.
35:48.59
tylerking
Yeah.
35:53.39
Rick
This is something we got to manage for every group clients. Whatever group and church broker out in the world does including Gusto now gusto has a significant competitive advantage I do want to talk about that with you and so the payroll company here by doing group health insurance and having it throw through their systems can add a pretty significant convenience to the pay reduction.
35:55.67
tylerking
Okay.
36:12.50
Rick
Um, and take that off like the plate of the business owner. Um, so we need to figure out how to combat that you know and from a service perspective is like how can we ah make it not a big deal that you're losing that. Um, ah and you know there's potentials that we could do that like we can integrate with these payroll systems. We can. Software to support that I not say we should do that tomorrow but we could do that we could also get in the payroll business if we wanted to um and ah, you know, just made me want to like come to you and say you know if we're if a leg up health and 10 if leg up in 10 years as a payroll company. You? What do you think about that.
36:33.20
tylerking
Yeah.
36:46.26
tylerking
I Hope we've hired a dev team by then but that doesn't sound fun to build. But yeah, it's we've said this before that um every business has to do something hard if if you're not doing anything hard. You have no moat you have no competitive advantage like some like you don't have a business and.
36:47.85
Rick
Yeah.
37:03.88
tylerking
You just have to pick the right hard things. That's not a hard thing I'm stoked about but ah maybe maybe it's the hard thing we got to do yeah you know it'd be interesting to sit down and brainstorm it because like ah you know gusto has an api like I realize not everyone. Who we are selling to. We'll be using gusto but to solve the gusto problem specifically I bet we could be like let's just do all the payroll stuff in gusto via their api and we still don't have to move any money that way you know, but being a full payroll company I actually this is ties into something we've talked about before maybe like a year ago that
37:35.31
Rick
Yep.
37:42.24
tylerking
I think software companies are like we still think of software as being very young and immature and like oh I can just you know I'm I'm a good web developer I can just spin up this thing in in a few months I'll have feature parody and like be have an Mvp at this point like payroll companies have been around for decades. And they've been getting better and better and better and gusto is good like I'm lessening serum's a customer gusto. They're not a this isn't into it into it makes shit software. Um I could beat them with an excel spreadsheet but gusto's good and it's not a given that we can do anything close to what they're doing. You know.
38:14.21
Rick
Now they offer their entire payroll system via an api so you can white label it which is interesting but like I don't yeah use them on backend. So so they're getting you know their share anyway. But but but it solves the the customer problem but but anyway um I think like.
38:21.55
tylerking
Yeah, ah so use them on the backend.
38:32.88
Rick
I think that it's an interesting I think there are 2 things I want to say about this one is um, this is like the hard part about entrepreneurship when you think you've got to win and it actually just creates more work because you don't know what you don't know until you do it and the answer isn't not to do it. It's to do it and learn and then you just have to like be okay like what Jd is learning right now with this one customer.
38:43.20
tylerking
Yeah.
38:52.61
Rick
Is the difference between us knowing how to get to 50 customers and not ever knowing. Um and you just have to like this customer is going to cost more than the next one and you have to be okay with that and um, it was interesting. We were going through our focus. Ah, you know what? what our focus right now is because I I meet with him in Thursday mornings meet with Jd on Thursday mornings. But but. You know this this thing is like 1 of 5 things on the list and it's it was at the bottom and we had just reviewed our core values and and guess what our first core value is clients first and so we immediately put that to the top and said let's reposition.
39:21.63
tylerking
Remind me clients first. Okay, yeah.
39:28.85
Rick
Instead of thinking looking at this as a burden look at this as an opportunity to live our values totally shifted the conversation I think oh that'll be a really interesting update at our next partner meeting.
39:36.89
tylerking
I Like that That's a great example of values mattering by the way like back to the me rolling my eyes thing like if you're actually changing what your how you're prioritizing stuff based on values then hey they serve a purpose just a little bit I'll give you that? Um, yeah, that's.
39:46.61
Rick
Just a little bit and.
39:54.70
tylerking
I' I'm glad you guys are handling that and not me. But um, yep that you're you're digging the moat though. Cool.
39:54.86
Rick
Yeah, yeah, you know you may bring up a good point though is like there's no reason J D shouldn't or and I or I shouldn't reach out to an existing group broker and say hey like how do you do with Peril like this is got to deal with this with every.
40:11.27
tylerking
Yeah I don't yeah I That's not the point I meant to bring up but that is a good point. Yeah, um, cool let it give some updates on that if ah if if we crack it right? Um, cool.
40:12.76
Rick
Customer What do you? What's your secret.
40:23.10
Rick
Yeah, for sure.
40:28.50
tylerking
My next topic here. So one of the things I'm building for legup health right now is you? You have a no code app which is what legup health consumer clients are currently using to like login and check their insurance information and you built a thing with airtable that emails each. Client every month just a summary of like hey here your insurance policies making sure everything looks okay, right? I am basically rebuilding that nocode app in full code and so like I'm reproducing a lot of the stuff you have and so I was digging through your airtable code to send this email and. So remind me like the product because you have you know you studied computer science in college but like you you don't have any like practical professional coding experience. But you wrote that code by yourself which is basically like you you pair programmed with me for a little bit and then just went and googled stuff and trial and error and got it eventually? um.
41:21.87
Rick
41:26.20
tylerking
Those Ah I assume pretty like difficult process.
41:28.82
Rick
Ah, the um, the difficult process wasn't the logic of like getting the data in the right place it was learning how to use the Api and get the api to like pulling Api in from airtable to to get the data in and then pushing it out.
41:42.30
tylerking
Catching.
41:47.42
Rick
To the emails that was the hard part. Yeah.
41:47.89
tylerking
To sungrid. Yeah, so the reason I bring this up is I was looking at that and I was just like Che Gp T could write this so easy. Um, the idea of like taking no code tools I think it's very common for anyone using nocode to need to extend it.
41:52.66
Rick
Oh.
42:05.43
tylerking
Just a little bit of Javascript like this is probably hundred lines of Javascript or something like that. Um, it's actually good code by the way like I yeah I think you did a good job but I was looking as just like if if you're someone who's technical enough to get a no code app working but not necessarily technical enough to write the code. Man it would be so much easier to do what you did two years ago now yeah yeah um I actually have a friend who did he I have a friend who launched like an Iphone app having never he's a product manager so he like understands all the technical stuff of.
42:24.80
Rick
with with with Ai generated journey of Ai interesting.
42:39.14
tylerking
The database works how apis connect together. He gets all that but he's never written code. He shipped an entire pretty good Iphone app just by just with chat gp t and like it gets a lot of stuff wrong, but he would go back and be like no you know I'm using a different version of Swift I can't do that or. Like you have to give it a ton of feedback but he got ah a full up and running Iphone app with it. You know what? Ah I'm not going to engage with that. But that makes me think of something that I have been thinking of with Ai you're going to get us canceled here. Rick.
43:01.32
Rick
It's it's like working with a foreign developer.
43:08.96
Rick
Ah.
43:14.94
tylerking
Um.
43:16.66
Rick
Um, come on I was a joke but.
43:18.12
tylerking
I know ah, but no okay people think of Ai as a tool you're holding back a more laughter there.
43:29.67
Rick
Um, I'll forget your reaction and now I'm feeling guilty about making maybe potentially inappropriate joke.
43:30.78
tylerking
No, no, no, no, no, you're good. Ah, but um, when you hear people talk about chech ept and stuff like that you think of it as like you you hear about it like it's a tool you have to get good at using tools and stuff like that I think there's an argument to be made that the skill set is more like management. Um, that if you think of like what a manager's job is it's to say like I've got a person who doesn't understand exactly what I want them to do or isn't empowered to do it for 1 reason or another and like or they're not motivated or this or that but my job is to talk until this other person. Does exactly the right thing I know that's like a very crude way of putting it. But it's like the api between a manager and employees is talking and then the employees do other stuff. The employees code or make graphics or whatever but the manager just talks and I really feel like that's the dynamic we have with chet e p t and.
44:19.49
Rick
M.
44:25.34
tylerking
When people say oh chety P is not going to. It's not going to put people out of work or this or that I I think maybe a better way to look at it is. It's not going to put managers out of work or more people need to manage Sheppy Jety Beatt You know.
44:31.79
Rick
And the exact management that's I like that analogy Ai general this Ai stuff needs to be managed for it to be productive. Does it get like when you manage an employee or a person you generally see like oh they get that I don't need to reteach that did does.
44:43.16
tylerking
Ah.
44:51.74
Rick
Does ai like sort of does the gender of Ai get there like where you've trained it enough on this topic within your conditions that it you don't have to go back and revisit that topic again or is it like starting from zero every time.
45:04.88
tylerking
That's a good question I I'm sure there's like people who are real experts on this like go and do their own you know train their own models or whatever I'm just using Chet apt and my understanding is like you can create different I know we have a shared Chatchi Pt account have you like used it at all yet. Um, there are threads.
45:16.23
Rick
You haven't logged any yet now.
45:22.31
tylerking
And each thread is like a chat back and forth within a thread it learns for sure. So I could say like hey I'm using laravelle ah you know I need to create a blade file that does this thing and I'll ask it and it'll get it totally wrong. I don't have to reexplain the whole problem I can just be like no no, no, no, you don't get it. This 1 thing should be different and it it remembers the context above the thread. I think if I start a new thread. It loses all the context so it does learn I'm not sure that it like all your future conversations will have that context I don't think it has that.
45:41.93
Rick
Okay.
45:50.49
Rick
Interesting cool that that I like the manager analogy a lot that that kind of makes a lot of sense to me.
45:59.47
tylerking
Yeah I I have felt like a manager when using it and it's the same kind of like no do that. Do the thing I wanted you to do not the thing I told you to do you know? Um, but but by the way I've just ah, leg up so leg up health. The new app is launching. Two weeks from now ish a little less than two weeks from now. Ah, we've got it scheduled I think it's on the calendar. But oh yeah, for sure, it's it's launching I could launch it today if we needed to. But um, there are things that aren't done but they don't matter until the end of the month
46:21.00
Rick
It's up to you guys I you know, yeah, are you do you think we're on track man. Oh That's amazing. Shut up. So That's yep, Cool. That's awesome.
46:35.72
tylerking
It's the monthly email. That's not done yet. Um, but it would 100% not be there I think we would only be halfway there without che gp t the the benefit to leg up health's business of this $20 month subscription. Ah I just can't I can't overstate like. It has completely changed how I how I code like yeah I know that's not that doesn't make for good radio but just like it's it's it's real I lost my prediction. My prediction. Ah, for this six months was I think ai is the re or for this year when we did our yearly recap I said.
46:56.46
Rick
Wow.
47:04.72
Rick
Ah, it's real.
47:13.89
tylerking
Ai is the real deal I'm a believer but it's not going to have enough of an impact this year. It'll it'll be next year or beyond before I can say it really like change things for me, but it's it's already happening.
47:22.69
Rick
Wow I gotta make time to play with it I just have not done it. It's stupid.
47:29.39
tylerking
I will say I ah for me I've only found it useful for code like a less knowing serum I rarely use it. Ah maybe I'm not being creative enough. But if you if you're like hey write a blog post for me if you're just like putting out spam bullshit content. It's fine, but like it doesn't write a good blog post. You have to review everything you have to check everything but with code you're just like I just don't use Google anymore I go to chat gbt from the beginning and and it answers the question and yeah, love it. It's incredible.
47:57.56
Rick
I need to I need to just put some time down to say like here are the things I need to try to use jetchatt gp chat Gpt for in my workflows and just like figure out a way to like.
48:11.47
tylerking
Yeah, yeah, and there are a lot of things che gp is bad for like it can't answer anything prior to 2021 it yeah there's a lot of weaknesses if anyone's listening and thinking like man I tried chatchy beatt and it it wasn't that much of a game changer for me.
48:11.50
Rick
Block Google from because I go to Google all the time to answer problems and it's like I should go to Jet Gbt first to just try it.
48:30.50
tylerking
I do want to say like it takes it is a skill that I I've been using it since I really started using it in Utah which was mid-april when I was there and it was like pretty useful for me there but like I'm getting better and better and better at like writing the prompts correctly, if it gives me something that's not correct like telling it. Like I had a whole conversation with it where I was trying to figure out how to do this that like write some code that I had to like modify a user session in the session table and I didn't know how it worked in Laraville and it like got it gave me the wrong answer 4 times and I kept like telling it why it was wrong and it kept adjusting. And eventually to get like I was just talking to it and eventually we got the answer figured out I think I would have never figured that out with like I could have googled for the next year I don't think I ever would have figured it out. So.
49:14.65
Rick
That's awesome. Yeah I'm thinking like there's like I do a lot of salesforce administration day to day and there's a lot of like errors that I have to deal with solving and um I think that would be ah, an interesting Google is not so great at helping solve salesforce like unique salesforce problems. But I'd be interested to see what chat gbt could do.
49:34.27
tylerking
Yeah, for sure. So um, cool. So what we got 10 minutes here this next topic is is bigger I'll save that for next time. Um.
49:45.49
tylerking
Yeah, maybe I'll just share like a little idle thought that I had which is I think you and I talk a lot like like almost everyone in business talks about like my my top priorities this. My second priority is that um, we've said this before I'm I'm I'm not trying to call you out because I've done it too but like 1 that comes to mind is when you've kind of said customer first. Ah. Forget employees that business second employee third whatever, um, increasingly I don't like talking about stuff that way and my reason is I feel like it. It turns everything into an optimization problem where you're like I want to do everything I can to make the number one priority go as well as it possibly can.
50:22.92
tylerking
And then only if it doesn't impact that will I do number two I know people don't think about it that way. But that's what it means kind of like if you say maximize shareholder value what you mean is I'll set off a nuke if it makes if it makes shareholder value. Go up by one cent you know
50:37.48
Rick
Ah, so.
50:41.92
tylerking
Um, and like I'm exaggerating but like sometimes businesses actually do kind of seem to be perfectly willing to destroy whatever they can to make money for shareholders I think a much healthier way to like everything is about balance and so I have started instead of talking about top Priority Second Priority Third I've been talking about it as like a pie chart almost. And be like I want you know 80% of our attention to go to this 15% to go to that 5% to go to that. Um, and I found that really provides more clarity for people at the company and for myself in terms of how we're doing things.
51:17.22
Rick
Yeah I actually find myself doing this too. Um, ah yeah I like that a lot I can't disagree with what you're saying um the way I've been thinking about it. A lot is like there's keep the train running stuff and that's ideally not 100% of your time but it's. Stuff that like when it happens you've got to prioritize in real-time over everything else and then there's the like the 1 thing that you're working on with all the other time until it's done. Um, and then yeah, maybe you're if there's multiple proactive projects like maybe you're allocating time. But when when when you're reacting. It's hard to say like percentage of time. Um I think like unless it's they what you're reacting to isn't really a reaction. It's ah it's it's planned. Um, so I go ahead.
52:06.40
tylerking
I think this probably sorry I think this matters like most of your work time is spent at windfall which is a very high growth venture backed like high pressure environment where maybe what I'm saying is a bit idealistic I think it works better at a calm company where like a lot of people will say. You know what family first The only thing I care about is family. My whole life is just designed for family It's like bullshit. That's not true. You may care more about your family than you care about everything else, but you like you're not spending every second of your life having quality time with your family like you could if you wanted to.
52:42.60
Rick
You're sleep. You're sleeping probably more time than your yeah how selfish of you.
52:43.69
tylerking
Yeah, yeah, you're sleeping exactly like and oh sleep is a perfect. Thank you Rick sleep is a perfect example. No one would ever list sleep as their number one priority. But if you don't sleep all that other stuff is terrible like it's.
52:55.72
Rick
It's terrible. Yeah, but you should allocate x like what is it like 20 up what 33% of your day to sleep to have a good.
53:06.38
tylerking
Yeah now now. Ok I'm gonna I'm gonna what's it called steel manate I'm going to give an argument against that um the argument would be well, it's it is because I care about my family I wouldn't have a good relationship with my family if I didn't sleep. Okay, fair enough set that aside for a second. Um, but it's like you.
53:09.55
Rick
Yeah.
53:20.20
tylerking
You choose to work you choose to have hobbies like there's there's space in life for any number of things and at a calm company like less knowing serum. We have like a de diversity equity inclusion budget both time and money I can't say as as much as I like to say oh d is our number one priority I don't care about anything more than it I can't say that. But I also don't want to say like something else is our number one priority and I don't care about dei the realities I care about both of these things I care about security I can't say the the number one priority lessening serum is data security like it is a very very high priority and it has to be balanced with everything else I just think it's like. Naive to talk about things like top and second and third priorities. So anyway, you agree I'm not I I sound like I'm arguing with you and we don't even disagree on this. Yes, rant completed. Thank you for listening.
54:02.79
Rick
No no I agree with you I agree with you. It's more of a rant than this is this is the more of a rant than a topic.
54:13.26
Rick
Ah, um, like I got nothing. Um, it's fun talking to you I thought this was I like talking I like talking about the ah I thought the you switching the blog back was a fun conversation I Do you think you can do that between now and the next.
54:14.61
tylerking
Um, anything else on your mind all right? Yeah, you too Let's call it.
54:31.67
Rick
Podcast or is it like something that's not you know a percentage of time that should have anything allocated to it.
54:36.42
tylerking
My top priority is Dei so I can't spend any time on the blog I'm afraid Um, no ah that will be a unis project I'm not sure what her time like I don't think there's anything urgent ah to do there. But oh I am I am writing a new blog piece of content that.
54:41.54
Rick
That's what I taught but.
54:55.72
tylerking
We're going to experiment with um, buying ads to a piece of content and trying to use that for a kind of lead Gen so that is another I'll update more on that later, but it's going to fail I'm telling you right now. It's going to fail. Yep.
55:02.40
Rick
Cool I'd love to learn about that. Well if you got to do 10 of them and you'll hit one. Um, well if you like to review past topics and show notes visit start to last dot com see you next week
55:17.13
tylerking
See ah.