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Welcome to The Corporate Escapee hosted by Brett Trainor,
We are on a mission to help 10,000 GenX professionals escape the corporate confines and find freedom and balance. We focus on helping you replace your corporate income by monetizing your experience and working fewer hours.
GenX was raised without many rules and a lot of independence. We want to show you how to reclaim that freedom
We blend stories from escapees, how to episodes, subject matter experts and authors.
Subscribe to Corporate Escapee Podcast define your legacy in the world of business today.
Join us and transform your expertise into a thriving, fulfilling business outside the traditional corporate confines.
Brett Trainor (00:00.56)
Hey, Paul, welcome to the podcast.
Paul Kuthe (00:03.993)
Thanks so much Brett, great to be here.
Brett Trainor (00:06.032)
No, no, this is my pleasure. I've been excited about this one. You and I got connected probably a couple months ago and this is a topic story. It's near and dear to my heart. I'm not very good at it. I'm continuing to work at it, but I know how important it is. One for our audience and a bunch of right escapees starting to tell their own story outside of corporate. So I'm thrilled that you decided to come on and join us.
Paul Kuthe (00:31.161)
Well, absolutely. It's always really fun for me to share these tools. It's literally the most powerful force one can wield to affect human behavior, the story is. And so my time doing this is always a pleasure. Appreciate it.
Brett Trainor (00:49.36)
Awesome. Well, let's kick off a little bit and just, you know, share with the audience a little bit of what you're doing today, who you work with. I kind of teased it a little bit, but yeah. So break down your company, who you work with, all the good stuff.
Paul Kuthe (01:03.897)
Yeah, well, your mission, Brett, then ends the whole idea of corporate escape kind of resonated with me because they often will joke that I break people out of jail. And what that means is that often business owners and entrepreneurs will start something in the pursuit of freedom, the creative freedom, financial freedom, time freedom, whatever it is. And suddenly they find themselves trapped by the very thing that was supposed to provide all this freedom, which I think is just cruel, cruel irony. So.
What I like to do is use the power of story in order to break people free from that and build the business and life that really they expected when they set out. And that is, story is the common sort of tool that I'll use to do that, but there's a bunch of things we get to work on in that process.
Brett Trainor (01:43.184)
Yeah.
Brett Trainor (01:51.728)
Yeah, that's awesome. It's funny you said break people out of jail. I did a post not too long ago on comparing corporate with Shawshank Redemption and how eerily similar those two were, right? With, you know, the person that shouldn't have been in corporate but had a plan to get out of the reluctant escapee who trusted the process, who had a guide, which we'll get to here in a little bit. And then the one that just had no sense, didn't know how to fit in the outside world and didn't...
Paul Kuthe (02:02.361)
Hmm. Yep.
Paul Kuthe (02:12.825)
Brett Trainor (02:21.008)
didn't do very well to put it bluntly. If people haven't seen the movie, we won't spoil it. But anyway, so yeah, so I know you.
Paul Kuthe (02:25.529)
It's always fun to watch those movies. You kind of get the sense for which characters in which role and we'll talk more about that. But they're all based on a universal truth that is about story.
Brett Trainor (02:40.272)
Yeah, and I know you started your business, at least this iteration of it about 10 years ago. Maybe share with the audience how you moved into or what captivated you to move and become into the story brand or the story side of the business.
Paul Kuthe (02:56.889)
Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, I originally started my business out of an adventure sport background. I was actually a professional kayaker and promoted brands in the outdoor industry, as well as coached people in the sport on the water. And I found there to be a lot of parallels, like teaching someone to run a waterfall and teach them to run a business are actually not that different. But I've also had a lot of business management experience in that we...
We grew and I worked in the leading the programs in the largest paddle sports instruction center and retail center on the West coast and grew that company from about six employees to about 46 employees and multiple locations and combining the promoting of those brands, the small business management and leadership experience, as well as the brand promoting experience and the marketing side.
All those really came together for me about 10 years ago when our son was on the way. I was really wanting to create a lifestyle and a business that allowed me to have the weekends available and the funds and resources, honestly, to be able to take him on the sort of adventures that I was taking clients on at the time. And I was running around promoting all these brands and going to competitions and filming things for National Geographic and whatever else, Extravagant Lifestyle.
It still didn't provide me the type of real freedom I wanted. So that's really how I got started in this space of coaching because I had an event I was running with a fellow coach who was doing a lot of executive coaching and had brought his sport coaching background and a similar sort of skill set I had into that world and was doing quite well. And so he mentored me at first and that's really when I got my start with first few clients.
You know, I had Thursdays and Fridays off from my normal work and lifestyle. And so I spent Thursdays networking and Fridays working with clients. And then that brought me to Storybrand, Donald Miller's work. When I was really looking to help clients find their voice and find their story and their message for the marketplace, it was just the perfect fit. So that kind of progression from adventure athlete and eventually an author into this coaching space.
Paul Kuthe (05:15.033)
was one that seems a little bit different or not what you'd expect. I don't have a counseling degree, I don't have an MBA, but I've learned a lot along the way from some of the most exciting and sort of difficult classrooms that there is out there in the wilderness and in the business community running businesses and promoting those brands.
Brett Trainor (05:44.56)
That's awesome. And for the record, you may be or have at least one of the coolest backgrounds of one of the guests that we've had come on the program. So, you know, most of us are shackled in corporate for 20 or 30 years. You came from a professional kayaking and the great outdoors. But, you know, again, I'm also a huge believer in.
Paul Kuthe (05:50.169)
Haha!
Paul Kuthe (06:01.113)
I get it though, I had -
I would, the people I would take out on the water on weekends, there were folks that were trapped Monday through Friday in these situations where the only respite, the only chance they had to get out and explore was on the weekend. And I could see their eyes open up and I could see them all of a sudden see the possibility of, if I can only just get to the ocean a little more often, or if I can only just get to the river a little more often when I wanted to, when the rain was raining and the river was up, not missing those opportunities.
Brett Trainor (06:06.832)
Go ahead.
Paul Kuthe (06:35.129)
It really gave them a reason to go ahead and shift their lifestyle and make some of the big scary changes that come along with quitting your day job. I ultimately did the same thing. I had to give up my healthcare, give up my salary, my cushy outdoor industry management gig with the business and do those Thursdays and Fridays and go out on my own and take that scary leap as well. So I get that side of it. It's just...
Brett Trainor (06:46.512)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (07:01.017)
I happen to have a fun job. People think it's really fun being able to take folks on the water, but so much of it was behind a computer and a whiteboard and a set of calendar days and behind a phone booking things and creating the opportunity for those folks to go on those adventures. Getting out and going on the water was a great piece of it, but only a small piece.
Brett Trainor (07:23.056)
Yeah, that's fantastic. And so a perfect reminder, if you got there, there's listening and still incorporating, you hate your job. Think of it, Paul had a really cool job and he still broke free to go find the freedom. And, you know, it's interesting because one of the things that I found over the four years that I've been out, because when I left, I've been straight, it was to replace income, make more money. It wasn't until about two years in that I realized all of a sudden I had time in my time.
And how valuable that was. And then I started the wellness and you know, it really started again, maybe I'm late to the party with these thoughts, but it was really around. Now I've got a life where work fits into it versus, you know, for 20 years, it was a job and we had to fit life around the corporate calendar and meetings and all those commutes, all those things. So, yeah. So that's awesome. That's why I'm.
Paul Kuthe (08:12.729)
I think a lot of times for the modern entrepreneur and the modern employee really both, the idea of work -life balance is a bit of a cruel myth. And it's not that we should be working all the time, it's just it's not reality. You know, these aren't separate worlds. We have, it's also a very tenuous relationship, right? Like as soon as something's out of balance, suddenly it's a terrible thing. But have you ever seen something that grows really fat? Like take teenagers, for example, rapid growth.
Brett Trainor (08:28.336)
Right.
Paul Kuthe (08:42.233)
completely unbalanced. They're all over the show. And sometimes when we're growing fast, there isn't always balance, right? And so I talk a lot about work life integration and especially in the entrepreneurial space, when you are in control of your own time and your own schedule, how do you integrate these worlds? And it does come back to story in a lot of ways, because what's your lived story? What's your experience that you really want to have in this entrepreneurial lifestyle? It is not easy. It's not an easy step to take.
But it does provide you the ability to write your own story and to have that sort of level of freedom. And I think that's a lot of times what people are needing and seeking, even if they have a cool job.
Brett Trainor (09:18.032)
Yeah.
Brett Trainor (09:24.88)
Yeah, no, I think it's, and I think obviously the pandemic opened our eyes to some of the work life balance that we weren't seeing or didn't have. And we got a taste of it. And all of a sudden it's, it's changed. And again, I think for me, at least, you know, mid fifties, I'm thinking, man, I still hopefully healthy, stay active. I've got another 30 years. What am I going to do? And I want it to be, I'm never going to retire. It's just, I just don't see that, but I want to do what I want to do. And how do we find right that, that balance? So.
Paul Kuthe (09:31.737)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (09:54.457)
It's key. It's key.
Brett Trainor (09:54.608)
Yeah, and I think this story tying it back to...
And so many of us missed it, right? I mean, it took me so long to figure it out. I say better late than never, but, but that's why the mission, right? The 10 ,000 Gen Xers to get them out of corporate and find this, this lifestyle. And. Yep. That gives you your perfect person to help. So because as we've been in the corporate confines, right, we're rewarded for not rocking the boat and staying within the lines. But now all of a sudden now.
Paul Kuthe (10:02.585)
Yeah.
100%.
Paul Kuthe (10:20.641)
That's right.
Brett Trainor (10:26.992)
You know, most, almost everybody I've worked with or in the community is looking at a solo business, right? They're not building next Google. They may do a small agency. They may do something small, but all of a sudden we're not telling the company's story, right? We got to tell our own story. That's terrifying. And I'm, and I shared with the offline when I started, I mean, I a hundred percent get this story brand framework. I get it. I buy into it. But when I started applying it to me, you know, I start to shake thinking, like, did I get this right? So.
Paul Kuthe (10:32.633)
Mm -hmm.
Paul Kuthe (10:39.961)
That's right.
Paul Kuthe (10:49.497)
Right.
Paul Kuthe (10:54.745)
Right.
Brett Trainor (10:54.928)
Maybe we could use the next part of this time, just demystify the story for us and how do we start thinking about our personal outside of what corporate was.
Paul Kuthe (11:01.433)
Mm -hmm.
Paul Kuthe (11:04.857)
Well, you bring up a great point and often in corporate, we're handed our work or our clients and we're not necessarily responsible for the marketing side of things. Or even if we are, like you said, you go to implement a really effective framework and we fall over ourselves because it's our own stuff and we get in our own way. And I'll be honest as a guide and as somebody who works on messaging and story for businesses all the time, when I get to my own stuff, I have trouble too.
I get a fellow Story Brand guide to help me and to help coach me along because just the outside perspective, we're sometimes too close to it to be effective at really knowing what it is that's going to move the audience. But when we talk about story in this framework, it's so universal, right? It goes back to, I mean, story has been around for thousands of years in this form, back Aristotle and before, where it can be applied universally. So leadership.
marketing, which we often think of marketing as the outside market, but really we have to market to ourselves and our own business too. But also our own path and how do we position ourselves in our own story? And suddenly when we're in this space and we've done a lot of the should -ofs, we sort of, you know, we should go to school and we should get the job and we should have kids and we should get a family. And we all of a sudden we end up like shooting all over ourselves when we could really.
still have time to create what that next chapter needs to be for you. And we talk about the narrative void. Like if you were sitting watching a movie and the credits are rolling and you watched all the credits and you were just still there as the as the person was around, like cleaning up the popcorn in the theater and everyone's gone. That sense of emptiness can happen in our lives, too. We can have all the should have done and all of a sudden realize like I'm not. Is that it? I'm not I'm not fulfilled yet. And so.
Brett Trainor (12:27.184)
Hahaha.
Paul Kuthe (12:56.217)
what this story means could mean how you're positioning yourself in your own journey and your own entrepreneurial story. But the basics of this go is that there's seven parts. There's seven parts to almost every single successful story. And when you get to a story and you're just like, I don't really know what that was about, or it feels like kind of a flat story, it's probably missing one or all of these seven parts. But essentially, every story is about transformation. It's about how the main character changes over time.
by overcoming adversity to get something that they want. So when a hero hits a story, we think of the hero as like a strong character, they're not, right? Not especially not in the beginning, because they don't quite have the tools. They're not sure if they can do it. They want something. And if you don't know what the character wants pretty early in a movie, it loses you. So about five seconds in, you need to know what the character wants. And then they hit a problem. It's the same thing for our clients, same thing for ourselves in this story. Now, if this story is about you and your entrepreneurial journey,
You want to be the hero. You want, you have this, this problem. You want to escape your corporate life or you want to go on this journey and build this business, but you had a problem. It's the same thing for your clients. So if you're thinking about this story from the perspective of marketing, then you want to think about how you're inviting the client into this story. And we'll talk about positioning and how that differs here in a second. But as a, as a story goes, the hero hits a problem and this problem always exists on three levels. There's external.
Internal and philosophical. Most businesses sell solutions to external problems. Most consumers buy because of internal problems. Those internal problems are the emotions. It's how they're feeling about that external problem. So if you're wanting to build your own business and you're wanting to escape the corporate life and do something different,
Brett Trainor (14:41.104)
Okay. Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (14:48.153)
Well, the external problem might be, I need to make income, I need to pay health care, I need to feed my kids, I need to find clients. Internally, how you're feeling about that problem, scared, intimidated, might be a failure, people might laugh at me, my corporate friends think I'm crazy, whatever the fear or emotional thing is. And then you have the philosophical problem of like, I shouldn't be trapped. All the skill and all this talent's going to waste, you know,
Brett Trainor (15:09.072)
I'll be above.
Paul Kuthe (15:17.305)
serving some other corporate interests, I need to be doing my own thing. I'm wasting my life doing this thing. If you can have a solution where you solve a client's external, internal and philosophical problem with one action, you have a successful business. If you have a plot line that solves all those problems for the character in one climactic scene, you have the best picture. Star Wars, Death Star in the Universe, external problem.
Brett Trainor (15:37.039)
that's so good.
Paul Kuthe (15:44.761)
Am I a Jedi? Can I wield the force? Internal uncertainty, philosophical good versus evil in the universe. Right? Like when you make that shot from that X -Wing fighter and that impossible shot down the canyon and you are a Jedi, right? It's clear. It's obvious. And you've just defeated the Death Star. Good versus evil in the universe is restored. All of a sudden, all those things come together. So there's those three levels of problem. The hero never solves all three levels of problem on their own, do they?
Brett Trainor (16:12.592)
Interesting.
Paul Kuthe (16:15.705)
For thousands of years, storytellers have always brought in another character. And this is the positioning part, right? This is where you have to be careful on what story are you telling. If you go and tell your marketing story and you say, my new company is going to be amazing because I worked at this XYZ corporate for this long and I've got all these awards. I'm on a mission to do XYZ great thing in the marketplace. And well, those are all cool, but those are all things about you. You're the hero.
Brett Trainor (16:17.072)
No.
Paul Kuthe (16:45.145)
of that story. And that makes sense. We all wake up as the hero, the protagonist in our own story. But you know what? So does our client. And so if you do that in marketing, where's the room for that client in that story? And there's only four main roles, right? There's hero, victim, villain, and guide. And so if that client's not the hero, if you're the hero, well, the client can't be the guide. There must be the victim or the villain. So we need to figure out hero, victim, villain, guide, these four main characters. Who are we and which story are we telling?
Now, if you're telling the story that is dealing with this entrepreneurial story, you're the hero of it, you hit these three philosophical, internal and external levels of problem, that guide enters the story at that point. Yoda, Obi -Wan, right? That outside character that helps the hero win the day, that really brings them a plan and calls them to action. So, the hero, part one.
hits a problem, part two, finds a guide. In the marketing story, if you're going out and you're trying to find clients, you want to position yourself as the guide. You want to be the guide. It's a big mantra we have in Story Brand Land is be the guide. And if you can be that guide, that means you have empathy and competency to solve the problem. You understand the problem, all three levels. You get it, you empathize.
And once that hero character understands that you get it and empathize, they know how much you care. Now they care how much you know. Now you bring the competency. Now you show, I can be your guide because XYZ problems are something I deal with all the time. Look at all the things I've, all the results I've gotten, all that stuff. That might show up in a website as testimonials. That might show up in a proposal as a case study. That might show up in a sales pitch as a story.
that you can relate back to a client you helped similar to them and what the results were. But you wanna be the guide in that story. And that means the story really is about the hero. And so we, as guides, are going to give a plan, which is the next part. The plan of the story is really those three easy steps. And I talk about this, I bring my river guide background into this sometimes, and I talk about how I, as a new, young guide,
Brett Trainor (18:52.656)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (19:08.857)
out there on the water trying to help people, I would try to give all the details and all the steps on running that waterfall. Here's what you're going to need to do at the top. Here's what you need to do at the bottom. And you're going to take that hard stroke on the right side, right at the lip of the waterfall. And you're going to land with the boat off center, just a little weight on your left hip so that you can carve off into the eddy on the left, all this detail. And I would be like, all right, you ready to go? Come on, follow me down this waterfall. And the student would just be like,
gripped to the rock, you'd have like finger dents and the granite rock, they were holding onto it so hard. And I changed, right? I shifted my guiding, I shifted my way, I brought them along and I would just roll up and I would say, hey, this is gonna be really fun down here, this waterfall, there's three steps. We're gonna go off to the left, we're gonna take a stroke with our right pedal blade off the top, and then we're gonna end on the left. Left, right, left. You ready to go?
and they'd still be scared, they'd still have eyes the size of saucers, but when I paddled away, they'd be behind me. I'd be leading them into that next rapid, that next waterfall. So we need a plan. We need a really clear plan and that often in a marketing sense could just be three clear steps on the website of what's gonna happen when they click that button, that call to action button that books a session with you or books an appointment with you for your sales proposal kind of discovery meeting.
But having those clear steps right there in a leadership, it might be giving your kid or your employee or a contractor three clear steps that happens next. As a guide, as a coach for businesses, I will often end a session with what are your three clear action steps? That plan, our brain works really well in threes. You get more than about four steps. I tell them more than about four or five things ahead of that waterfall and your brain shuts down. You just.
People don't move into a fog. And so that's really, really, really key. But what does that guy do? They give you the plan and they call you to action. The call to action is the part that often people miss or get shy about, especially if they've been in corporate and they haven't had to do the selling part. We get really bashful. Sometimes it's just because we don't want to be pushy or salesy or we don't want to be seen as sort of too aggressive, but really a good guide.
Brett Trainor (21:05.936)
or Elias, yep.
Paul Kuthe (21:33.721)
is going to call their hero client to action. And that might be something really clear and direct like click here to book now on a website, or it might be, you know, let's go ahead and get you started on that contract. I'll send over the agreement. You know, whatever the thing is that gets you that first client or that signs that big deal that lets you take that big step and quit your day job, it might require an uncomfortable step. It might require calling your hero to action.
And there's some things we get into on a marketing front around transitional calls to action, ways that you can kind of invite that hero to take a little baby step. It might be just to give up their email address, to get a free guide on how to do X, Y, Z thing in their business that you can help them with. But that creating that opportunity for different decision makers is often a thing. So from there, you really have two outcomes. You've called the hero to action. There's either a successful,
right off into the sunset sort of moment and this climactic scene ends and things are all well or a tragic failure, right? That's the universal framework for a story. Either way, that hero transforms in the end for having gone after what they want, overcoming those three levels of problem, meeting their guide and really having a plan that they take action on. They're gonna transform over that process and it either.
is a successful end or a tragic failure in our marketing and our sales and our leadership. We just have to paint that picture for people. We just have to remind them what their life looks like when they take the positive step to work with us or what could be the results of inaction. It might even just be a question at the end of a proposal and ask, for you, what doesn't change or what happens if we don't move forward with what I've proposed today?
Brett Trainor (23:18.968)
Thank you.
Paul Kuthe (23:27.289)
I used the story of this and we actually had a client, I work with somebody who asked that question and the client said, well, I have to move back to my home country.
Brett Trainor (23:27.728)
What's the outcome? Yeah, it's so good.
Paul Kuthe (23:42.617)
if they didn't get the work done and it wasn't successful. Like it went all the way to that philosophical level of problem. Not only would I not improve my sales, my marketing wouldn't be as effective or whatever, sure. But there might even be past the emotional part of like, well, I worry about the business not being successful. If that business wasn't successful, they would actually have to move back to their home country. They have to relocate them and their family.
Brett Trainor (23:43.728)
Now.
Paul Kuthe (24:09.145)
all of a sudden you have a clear picture of the story you're actually inviting them into. And so you're actually able to serve them at a higher level. And that is the power of the story is that people don't buy things to satisfy that external problem, even though that's what they arrive wanting or the thing that you might say you solve in your business. They move and take action because of those internal and philosophical problems. So if you don't get into those layers, you're missing the story.
Brett Trainor (24:20.624)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (24:39.001)
And you're really losing the opportunity to inspire that hero to take action, to follow that plan, and to actually get the successful results you're hoping to provide. And so that's the basic seven parts of the story.
Brett Trainor (24:51.088)
Thanks for watching!
Brett Trainor (24:55.312)
It's so good. And what I love about it is it's, I wouldn't call it simple. It is, you're really breaking it down into the easy way. Yes. Yeah. And I love the power of three. That is, you know, a thing I need to remember because I tend to go to five. So I'll figure out how to get to three. And I bet, and I'm going to get your perspective that a lot.
Paul Kuthe (25:02.361)
It's not new, but it's digestible. You can use that.
Paul Kuthe (25:15.769)
Think about like, think about like all the real plans that you have to come up with like in like, think about stop, drop and roll. We all grew up Gen Xers, right? That was, I was like, I thought we'd all catch on fire a lot more often considering how often they drilled that into us, the stop, drop and roll. There's three steps to that plan though, right? And you still remember it.
Brett Trainor (25:26.384)
Yeah.
Brett Trainor (25:30.32)
yeah.
for sure.
Brett Trainor (25:41.448)
Yeah. Now it's, it makes sense. I'm guessing where some people get tripped up and I see brands do this is the, confusing the hero and the guide, right? It want, we want to make ourselves as the business owner and the, is the consultant, the hero, and that's our instinct, but we're, I love the guide analogy because I see myself more as a guide than a coach. The guide makes sense. So I, that's probably a big.
Paul Kuthe (25:58.425)
8.
Paul Kuthe (26:05.273)
It resonates.
Brett Trainor (26:07.792)
pay attention to, right? You are the guide, you are not the hero in this story, right?
Paul Kuthe (26:11.353)
That paradigm shift is the biggest takeaway for most brands. Most brands accidentally end up positioning themselves as the hero of the story and they really need to be the guide. And when we make that shift, it all of a sudden changes everything because suddenly the words on your website are from a whole totally different perspective. And the way that your sales team approaches, and this might just be you as a solopreneur, but suddenly as you look through that lens as the guide of the story rather than the hero,
Brett Trainor (26:24.08)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (26:40.633)
It can change everything and it can really take some pressure off. Being a guide, of course, resonated with me from my adventure sport background, literally guiding people. But gosh, it takes that spotlight off of you and really helps keep it on the client, which is what's important anyway, and really lets you come alongside that client and help them and serve them rather than sell them, if that makes sense.
Brett Trainor (27:01.584)
Right.
Brett Trainor (27:10.192)
Yeah, no, it does. And right as you're going through this, I'm starting to apply this like to my, the escapee business or the community, right? I'm like, all right, so we do have it. So the, the hero is the people stuck in corporate. They're dealing with the external, which is benefits and salary. The internal is the fulfillment and what am I, is there more in my role isn't to be the hero, but provide the guideline, the posts, this, the things to help get them out.
Paul Kuthe (27:18.649)
percent.
Paul Kuthe (27:25.081)
Yes.
Paul Kuthe (27:30.681)
Mmm. Mmm.
Paul Kuthe (27:38.713)
Yep, you can share that.
Brett Trainor (27:38.96)
And I shouldn't be using more than three, three steps to stay right. That it's a, it's consumable and it's understandable and it's, it's actionable. man, you made that, I think I read Donald Miller's book a couple of times and I've listened to in podcasts and to get, you just broke that down in, you know, six minutes in a way that made it.
Paul Kuthe (27:44.281)
Yeah.
Brett Trainor (28:01.136)
really actionable, so I appreciate that. So I hope everybody out there who's listening who's taking notes, go back and re -listen to this because this is a perfect framework to start thinking about what you want to do with your clients.
Paul Kuthe (28:13.241)
Yeah, it is definitely an important step for everyone to take. Well, what happens is you start seeing and applying it to everyday life. I mean, not only do you bug your spouse or your friends because you know what's happening in that show or that movie next, because you can lay the framework right over the top of that plot line and you're like, so and so dies in like 10 minutes. My wife doesn't like watching movies with me as much anymore.
Brett Trainor (28:15.408)
So you've obviously delivered this before.
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (28:38.041)
but you start to apply it to your life. Like my parenting, I started to figure out like, hey, my kid, from his perspective is on a hero journey about this thing. Why are they so bent out of shape wanting, you know, to wear the socks that his brother has on right now? Cause his brother just stole socks out of his drawer. Like what is the actual, the external problem is brother stole socks internally feeling, well, maybe he's feeling a little bit like left out or a little bit like he doesn't,
Brett Trainor (28:39.248)
Hahaha
Paul Kuthe (29:07.993)
He doesn't get to have the say or the control, right? And philosophically, little brother, little brother is always in that position and he shouldn't feel disempowered that way all of the time. He should be able to wear his socks, right? And all of a sudden I'm parenting in a different way because I approach that hero and come alongside them as a guide type figure and really figure out what's the plan? How can we call you to action that's going to be empowering? And all of a sudden everything starts to shift. So when you use it a lot,
It's just right there and becomes really handy. That's what's great about frameworks is you can apply them to different contexts and they're simple enough you can use them on the fly.
Brett Trainor (29:41.68)
Yeah.
Brett Trainor (29:48.208)
Yeah, this is such a good life framework and I never would have thought of it that way until we started talking. Parenting is perfect, even just in some of your social media posts or anything. Right. I think even if the framework you had mentioned early on, the what did you mention? What the hero was trying to accomplish and what the obstacle was. I'm like, that's an everything you write. That's what we're trying to accomplish. And the other thing I took out.
Paul Kuthe (29:58.457)
Yes.
Paul Kuthe (30:09.881)
Yeah. my gosh. Yeah. Yep. If you're not speaking through the framework, like a filter, like if you're not using that framework, like a filter and speaking from one of those seven parts of it distinctly, you're probably missing the audience. You're probably getting tuned out. When we see, we hear 10 ,000 marketing messages a day on average now and from different sources, we're getting bombarded. And so if you're not cutting through all of that,
Brett Trainor (30:17.968)
I took a look.
Brett Trainor (30:29.008)
Yeah. Huh.
Paul Kuthe (30:39.481)
by using story, which is how our brains make sense of information. It's how we make sense of the world. Our brain constructs a story about all the sensory stuff we have coming in and decides that that's the reality that we're perceiving. Then you're missing a big piece of the puzzle. And so use it as a filter. Use it for every social media post. Use it for, you can take, it's like chords on a song or on a guitar. You can play these different chords, different pieces of these seven parts of the story.
in different ways, in different orders, in different contexts. And when you get skilled at that, suddenly you can make beautiful music around your messaging, around your leadership, around your own story. Using this to craft a goal narrative is one of the first steps I take when I work with a business owner and we start figuring out what is their, how are they a hero on a mission? How are they taking their story and using the business as a vehicle or like an airplane to get where they wanna go?
Brett Trainor (31:40.016)
Yeah, so good. And if you don't mind, can we just run the really quick recap what those seven steps were again? Because I was lost in the story as we were talking. I'm sure I didn't capture all. I'll let you lead the way.
Paul Kuthe (31:46.329)
Yeah. Yeah. You bet. Yeah. So the, the hero, that's fine. The hero wants something. So what the hero wants second step is problem. And that's on three levels. What's the problem? They want this, but they hit this problem. Third step's guide. All right. How are we going to position ourselves with a competency and empathy?
Brett Trainor (31:56.24)
Okay, yep.
Paul Kuthe (32:14.745)
The guide gives a plan, which is the fourth step. That plan's in three steps, right? So the story has seven parts, the plan has three steps. That plan then needs to be acted on. So the fifth one is call to action.
and that action results in either a successful or unsuccessful ending. So those, that's part six and seven. Really in all of this comes back to again, character transformation. Every story is really about how the hero transforms. And so sometimes I'll start there. Sometimes I'll figure out what's the transformation I'm really looking to make for people and how can I work backwards from there? How can I?
get the hero what they want and solve their problem and be a good guide for them and call them to action so that they have this transformational experience. Because that's what people want more than anything else. We want to transform into a better version of ourselves and that's what's going to drive it.
Brett Trainor (33:09.84)
Yeah.
So true.
Brett Trainor (33:17.552)
so good and maybe there's a part two of this down the road because then I'm starting to see right how you get that emotion and some of these things into your copy versus the here's the our solutions right it's more about the solving the internal without saying you're solving the internal and it's the feeling that goes along with it yeah because the end of the day we're we're all human yeah
Paul Kuthe (33:36.345)
That's what moves people. That's what moves people. Can I give you one little tool or one little thing you can use to dig into that a little bit? So I love being able to apply this stuff. Information's great. The framework's out there. I mean, you can Google anything, but here's something that I think you can use, anybody can use to really dig a little deeper. So you have that moment where you're trying to figure out what is the internal and philosophical problem I'm gonna solve. Right now I have this client or this lead in front of me who's got an obvious external problem that I work with.
Brett Trainor (33:46.96)
Please.
Paul Kuthe (34:06.777)
cool, that's not why they're going to buy from you. What is the actual piece of the puzzle? So, Brad, is there anything that you have recently spent money on or that you plan to spend money on? Large or small purchase, doesn't matter. Is there something you've bought recently or you're going to buy?
Brett Trainor (34:24.848)
I've got my car lease is up. I haven't been driving it at all. So I'm struggling with what am I going to do? So it's a big purchase that's coming, right?
Paul Kuthe (34:31.097)
Got it. Got it. So vehicle purchase or some something you have, you have a need of transportation for yourself.
Brett Trainor (34:40.944)
Yes.
Paul Kuthe (34:42.073)
Okay, what's important to you about that?
Brett Trainor (34:48.368)
I'm conflicted right now to be honest with you because it's, you know, there's nothing cheap. I don't drive it that far, but we need it just because we need more than one car, right? It's my wife and I know that are home and I don't drive that often, but it's more often. Yeah. And what am I going to spend to have it sit in the garage most of the time? so even though my lease is coming up on my current car,
Paul Kuthe (35:01.305)
More than one car. Yep.
Paul Kuthe (35:11.161)
What's important to you about having more than one car?
Brett Trainor (35:17.04)
just from probably the convenience aspect of it, right? So one or the other of us isn't dropping us off somewhere. We do have to be in different places. It's just not frequent. Like when I was working and going downtown, using it every day. Now I'm not. And so that's where I'm conflicted about how do I solve this? And to be honest, so what am I doing? I'm not doing anything. My lease is up in like six weeks. If I haven't scheduled my return, I'm like, maybe I just extend this.
So even though I have the problem, I'm not taking action on it.
Paul Kuthe (35:48.161)
So a little bit conflicted and you do have things where you'll appear in different places at different times. What's important to you about being able to both get to those different places at different times?
Brett Trainor (36:03.568)
that's a good question. Maybe it's not as important or it is. Hadn't actually thought through that. It just, just what we've always done, right? we, yeah. I don't know. I just can't see us taking an Uber for one offs when we both have to be somewhere at the same time.
Paul Kuthe (36:21.561)
And what's important you about not having to take an uber?
Brett Trainor (36:27.78)
It just seems, I guess it's more of the, to what I'm looking for. Seems silly, right? That everybody has a car. You should have a car. That's the way things work. I'm in the suburbs, right? You need to have the car. I don't need my wife dropping me off. So it's, okay.
Paul Kuthe (36:43.353)
Great, right there. So you have a, you're right there, right? So external problem, two people need to be two different places at the same time, different, you know, they gotta be able to get around. Feeling conflicted, also feeling a little silly about having to call somebody else or rely on somebody else. Philosophically, right, you should be able to just hop in your wheels and go. That's what you've always done. You shouldn't be restricted by that. We got.
Brett Trainor (37:09.936)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (37:12.665)
we got important things to be able to go and do, which it doesn't work for our life to have to go and do that and be uncertain about those things. So wheels, sure. What you're really buying is clarity and not being conflicted. And also there might be a little bit convenience or sort of status in there of like not having to rely on an Uber, being self -reliant. There's a philosophical piece of it there. So if I was to be in the leasing office and I were to be sharing,
Brett Trainor (37:22.736)
Right.
Paul Kuthe (37:41.145)
what I want to about a vehicle. I could share the features and benefits of the car and talk about what a great dealership we are and talk about all the great warranty and care and service and blah, blah, blah. What we really need to do is speak to you about what is it that you really need to be able to do on these trips when you're in different places, different, what kind of events are they? How do you want to feel when you show up? What sort of things do you need to be able to take with you? Who's going to be riding? Are you going to give anybody a ride? Are you going to take clients in this car? What are all the things that are?
emotionally driving this purchasing decision? And what are all the status things there that are involved? And how can I speak to those when it's time to make the choice? When you, you know, they always slide the piece of paper and the pen across the desk and they start writing numbers down. You know, what are the things we're going to be talking about? It sure better not be the features and benefits and what's on the dashboard of the car and whatever tire, like we're talking about how Brett wants to feel and how philosophically you and your partner should be able to.
Brett Trainor (38:22.064)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (38:37.657)
go wherever you need to in that city and do what you need to do without worry and it should be reliable and you should be able to do those things. So that is an example of, so there's one question I asked to go deeper into those levels. It was one simple plain question and I asked it over and over again. I said very little, you did all the talking. All I asked was what's important to you about that?
Brett Trainor (38:45.392)
Yeah.
Paul Kuthe (39:02.873)
What's important to you about having two cars? What's important to you about the confusion or the feeling conflicted? What's important to you about being able to just not have to do an Uber and just go whenever you want to go? What's important to you about that is the way you get deeper into the level of problem.
Brett Trainor (39:03.664)
Yeah, now it's...
Brett Trainor (39:22.544)
Yeah, and even thinking about solving my own problem, if I'm the dealer, I'm like, hey, Brett, do you realize we now have a 5 ,000 miles a year lease program that we didn't have for folks that don't drive as much, right? Because usually they're trying to upsell you 10 ,000 miles, 15 ,000 miles. My current car has got less than 10 ,000. I'm three years into it. So I'm like, somebody came, had a interesting or unique solution. I would connect. You're absolutely right. I would have connected with that. Huh.
Paul Kuthe (39:38.041)
Sure.
Paul Kuthe (39:48.281)
Yeah. Maybe you end up with a less lower mileage lease, but with a nicer vehicle because I don't do that often, but when I do it, I want to feel good. I want to show up. I want to take clients. I want to be able to do these things and ride around in some style. And maybe my payment doesn't change at all, but you just use it for a few miles.
Brett Trainor (40:08.304)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's so good. So good. Paul, I thank you so much for taking this time. This was super interesting. I got like six pages of notes that I've taken during this one. So, appreciate it. Like I said, we will come back, I think do a part two and we can go deeper into some of this. Cause I think we just touched on the surface, but a great starting point for anybody that's either just starting their journey or if you're in your journey, you're not thinking like this, flip that, flip that mindset. So.
Paul Kuthe (40:15.193)
Welcome.
Hehehehe
Brett Trainor (40:35.984)
If folks want to connect with you, find out more information, your company, what's the best place for them to connect with you.
Paul Kuthe (40:43.961)
Yeah, head over to tributarycoaching .com and there's a free consultation button on the top right corner. So that's tributary, like a small stream, tributarycoaching .com and click the free consultation button there. You can jump on the calendar for, I do a free session available there and you can also get a free seven day trial to Business Made Simple, which is going to be a great learning platform that brings forth the Story Brand framework.
but also gives you access to all the different learning modules that we use within Business Made Simple. Everything from leadership to negotiation to sales to marketing. It's really a treasure trove. So head to tributarycoaching .com.
Brett Trainor (41:28.688)
Awesome. And Paul's got some great content over there on his website as well. And by the way, I just, it just clicked on me today, tributary and your, your kayaking career. I'm like, very good. I get it now. I'm a little slow some days, but I got it. That's awesome. All right. That's really good. anyway, thanks again, Paul. We will catch up with you soon and have a great rest of your day.
Paul Kuthe (41:38.745)
Try to be on brand. Feeding the flow of your life and business.
Paul Kuthe (41:54.969)
Thank you, Brett, and thank you all for listening.