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We are on a mission to find out how to be the best podcast guest.
Erica Rooney - 00:00:04:
For me, it is all about it being a piece of your personal brand. So I do think that podcasting is a huge extension of that. You do need to be careful depending on what you're podcasting on and what kind of role you're interviewing for. Like for me and my podcast, it's all about women empowerment, gender equality. How can we bring more women into positions of power and keep them there? That goes really well with being a chief people officer, especially a female chief people officer in a male-dominated industry.
Dr. Sarah Glova - Welcome to the Podcast Ally podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Glova, keynote speaker and workshop facilitator, and I'm on a mission to find out how to be the best podcast guest. And so I'm talking to hosts, people who have been guests on hundreds of podcasts, and podcast network executives, so I can learn the good and the bad What works? What doesn't? How I can build my brand through podcast guesting. With me today is Erica Rooney, Chief People Officer at Blue Acorn ICI, keynote speaker, author of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, and host of the From Now to Next podcast. Welcome, Erica. We're so excited to have you.
Erica Rooney - 00:01:16:
Yay! I am so pumped to be here. Thank you.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:01:18:
In the studio and everything. And you have, I mean, as I was looking through all the podcasts you've done, it's so fun to search your name. And then I feel like you can just scroll to the end of the internet and see all the episodes you've done. It's so fun. So I wanted to start today with talking about how we leverage podcasts to transform our careers. But we have this one question that we actually start with every time because it brings up some really good stories. And it's, what's your worst podcast experience?
Erica Rooney - 00:01:43:
Oh my gosh. Well, my podcast, the podcast From Now to Next, is all about breaking free from the sticky floors, those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors that keep you stuck. And I always pre-screen my guests. And we talk about what they are so I get a good idea. Okay, it's perfectionism. It's imposter syndrome.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:01:59:
You figure out what their sticky floor is.
Erica Rooney - 00:02:01:
Yes, we talk a little bit about so I can craft my questions ahead of time. And this one woman gets on my show and we're live and she tells me she has no sticky floors. And I'm like, this is the whole purpose of this podcast. But like also nothing about you is sticky, nothing. Like you're just amazing and incredible. And when I tell you that stopped me in my tracks, I'm like, I can talk to a dead snake. And I just, I did not know where to go next after this. And I stumbled upon my words and I was able to dig deep and like uncover some stuff. But the fact that this woman was just straight up like, no, I have no sticky floors and I am just amazing. And I'm like, but this is the sticky floor podcast. Are you in the right place?
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:02:45:
So I love that you shared this example because I think a lot of times when we share these worst experiences, we are looking for lessons learned. And I think you highlighted one, which is screen your guests. But you said that you did that. Like you literally did your homework. You did the pre-screen interview. And still this person got on your live show and said, oh, this is the Sticky Floors podcast. I actually don't have a sticky floor.
Erica Rooney - 00:03:08:
Yes. It's almost like that she came with her own agenda and really wanted to put herself in this positive light, which I get we all do. But if you're going to- This wasn't the podcast for that. No. And if you're going to be a good podcast, you need to understand the premises of the podcast. And the premises of mine was to really be open and vulnerable. I want women to share their Sticky Floor stories. And so to have this woman come on, who's very successful doing all the things and to say like, oh, it's just easy for me and everything is great.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:03:34:
I'm not going to share that.
Erica Rooney - 00:03:35:
It's not. It's not going to jive with my audience.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:03:37:
Not the vibe. Not the vibe for the podcast. But again, I just love that you shared it because- Because even somebody who's so, so experienced like you, who did their homework, like this stuff still happens. And so I think learning to roll with it, you said you dug deep and you figured out a way to make the episode work. So what a cool example. I just, I love that you shared that. All right. So now that we've talked about the worst one, let's dive into this topic of how do we leverage podcasting to transform our careers, our work, amplify whatever we're doing. So we have a couple episodes that people have talked about. A particular episode that's changed the trajectory of their career. We had- Robert Ingalls, who came on and he talked about a really tough time in his life where he heard a podcast that just was like the light bulb switch and it changed everything for him. I wanted to hear your answer to this. Like, how have you seen maybe a single episode help change someone's career?
Erica Rooney - 00:04:28:
Oh my gosh. So many answers to this because number one, I will say that podcasting has changed my career and my trajectory, number one. But when I think about all of the lessons that I have learned just from listening to other podcasts, I don't know that I could pinpoint one single episode because I am that person that I always have an earbud in when I am doing the laundry, when I am cooking dinner, and I am listening to all of these people's experiences. And I'm just taking tidbits from every single one of them on how can I be better? How can I change my mindset? How can I do something slightly different? And all of those little tiny pieces add up to be a life-changing experience.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:05:02:
I love that answer. It makes me wonder what's in your podcast library. You strike me as somebody that listens to all kinds of things.
Erica Rooney - 00:05:18:
I sure do. And I mean, it's the same with music, honestly. I will listen from country to rap. And on my podcast, I have everything from Jenna Kutcher, Gold Digger. To I'm really into the Powerhouse Women right now because that's all about mindset.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:05:32:
The season right now.
Erica Rooney - 00:05:33:
Yep. Shifting. And I'm all about embracing that. But then, of course, if I need to zone out, I'm listening to Dateline Murder Podcasts. So it's just all over the map.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:05:43:
You're in that genre of women who I respect so much. It's like, I really need to relax. Let's hear how someone got murdered.
Erica Rooney - 00:05:48:
I was listening to Death at the Spa on my way here today. So dead on.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:05:52:
That's amazing. So you talk about how it's not just a single podcast that comes to mind for you. It's like the puzzle pieces. It's the jigsaw puzzle pieces of podcasts that continue to help make up kind of who you are and what you believe. And it's always changing.
Erica Rooney - 00:06:05:
It is always changing. And I go through these phases. And Jenna Kutcher, the Goal Digger podcast, was one that I heavily listened to when I first started my journey. Because I really admired how she came from being a wedding photographer and really grew her business. And so I was really focused on, let me pay attention to how she does this. And I took a lot of lessons. And she shares a lot of great information. Then, of course, the Mel Robbins podcast came out, which is like the number one podcast of all time. And I really enjoyed how she interacted with her guests. And, of course, everything that she shares about just changing your mindset and changing your life and being healthy. And so I was really into that.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:06:41:
As you're describing all these podcasts, something else that comes to mind for me, you're such an expert host. You're such a good interviewer. When you listen to all these podcasts, how do you make sure that you're appreciating someone else's style but not getting this message of like, oh, I have to be that? Because we get a lot of folks who are doing their first time. Like, I'm going to be a guest for the first time. And so they're listening to this podcast for tips. And they might be listening to other podcasts for tips, too, to see how it's done. But I think something that can be a little dangerous is when we're new, we hear somebody who's really good. And we're like, OK, I got to be like that. And that can be sometimes really dangerous if that means that we're not being ourselves. And so how do you kind of appreciate what people are doing without trying to copy it? Does that make sense?
Erica Rooney - 00:07:24:
Yeah, I think it's really great to emulate people because I think that's how you can learn and grow. And obviously they have done something extremely successful. Their podcast is popping. It's great. So it's okay to emulate, but you have to really remember that no one can do what you do the way you do it. And your friends are your friends in real life because of who you are. And so you need to embrace that. So it's okay to listen to other podcasts and say, okay, I really like the way they do that and test things out and try them out. But you have to find your own little sweet spot wherever that is. Because again, your friends are your friends because of who you are, not because of who Mel Robbins is or who Nicole Khalil, who does This Is Woman's Work is. It's because of who you are. So try them out. But it is like putting on a new pair of shoes. You have to walk around in them for a little bit. You have to get comfortable. And eventually after you do it enough, you do get comfortable and you find your own little sweet spot.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:08:22:
You mentioned friends a couple of times. So is that a helpful kind of reminder for you when you're on the podcast to think of how your friends think of you or how you would talk to your friends?
Erica Rooney - 00:08:29:
A hundred percent. And I tell every guest on my show that this should feel like it is coffee between two girlfriends.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:08:35:
Hey, cheers.
Erica Rooney - 00:08:36:
Cheers. I'm not even drinking coffee. I'm drinking bubbly water. But it's all about how are we connecting? And I don't want to listen to a scripted show. That's not my jam. I'm sure there's scripted shows out there that do really well. But for me, I want it to be like we are two friends chatting, having coffee, getting real, opening up about the sticky floors and all the sticky stuff in our lives.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:08:57:
That makes sense. I mean, it makes sense with your brand and the idea of sticky floors, but also just kind of who you are. And I love that I'm imagining if we had met for coffee and I had said, Erica, can we please meet for coffee? I'm thinking about being a podcast guest and you're so good at it. Can you give me some tips? Like this would kind of be our conversation.
Erica Rooney - 00:09:11:
It would have been just like this.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:09:13:
Yeah.
Erica Rooney - 00:09:13:
Just like this.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:09:13:
I love it. Well, thank you for all the authenticity you're bringing. I do want to ask you a bit about your background. So as chief people officer for so many people, I mean, you've probably hired, reviewed applications for like, I just can't even imagine. Can you tell us a little bit about how somebody could maybe rise to the top of the pile when they are applying for a job? And what you've kind of seen, maybe we can have a bias toward podcasting. Like, have you seen anyone use podcasting as a way to stand out or maybe at their past roles? They were a podcast guest on behalf of their company. Like, is this something that people who are looking to elevate their careers could consider?
Erica Rooney - 00:09:51:
For me, it is all about it being a piece of your personal brand. So I do think that podcasting is a huge extension of that. You do need to be careful depending on what you're podcasting on and what kind of role you're interviewing for. Makes sense, yeah. That always is a thing you need to be careful about and what you're putting out there. But like for me and my podcast, it's all about women empowerment, gender equality. How can we bring more women into positions of power and keep them there? That goes really well with being a chief people officer. Makes sense. On brand. Especially a female chief people officer in a male-dominated industry. So be cognizant of that for sure. But what helps people rise to the top of the pile is being a true extension of your personal brain out there in the world, if that makes sense. So like who I am on my show, who I am at my job is who I am on my podcast.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:10:45:
So what we're not hearing Erica say is, hey, if you want a job, you have to go be on a bunch of podcasts. What we are hearing Erica say is, okay, if I want this job, I need to think about the kind of brand that I'm presenting when I'm applying for this job. And maybe there are podcasts that can help me amplify that. That could be a strategy.
Erica Rooney - 00:11:03:
A hundred percent. But you know, it has to be connected somehow, right? So like My Favorite Murder, one of my favorite podcasts out there. They're amazing, right? But if I'm applying for an HR job and I'm doing murder podcasts, that's not going to get me anywhere.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:11:15:
Makes sense.
Erica Rooney - 00:11:15:
So if you really want it to, you know, further your career development, it needs to be a little bit niched into whatever that career is.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:11:23:
It has to fit.
Erica Rooney - 00:11:23:
And maybe we could stretch it. I mean, maybe being on a murder podcast would be a good fit if you were going into like a communications role or something. And you could use that to show like experience and storytelling. Absolutely.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:11:33:
Oh, I love that. I had a student once. I have worked with a lot of students and I was working on resumes and I was getting this like deja vu reading their objective statements. It was like every single moment, you know, I'm a professional student who's graduating with this degree and I'm looking for this role. It was like you could copy paste every single person's objective statement onto everybody else's resume. There was no. And then one student mentioned. But as a project manager, he felt like he could pull disparate pieces of information together, which has also helped him to be a jigsaw puzzle champion. I mean, I'll remember that resume for the rest of my life because he brought in this very fun example of how he was a champion puzzler. I don't know. Is that the term?
Erica Rooney - 00:12:12:
Who knew it was a thing? Right.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:12:13:
And connected it, though, to project management and how he sees pieces. I still remember that. And so the idea is it doesn't have to be, OK, I want to be a project manager. I'm only going to go on project management podcast. But how can it help elevate your brand, your unique skill set, things like that?
Erica Rooney - 00:12:30:
Now, what I will say, and this is how it will help you, is resumes are a little bit of a thing of the past. Yes, you have to have one. Yes, you have to use it to apply. But if I'm going to be interviewing someone, if I'm the hiring manager, not the talent acquisition person who does have to go through resumes, I'm not going to look at your resume first. I'm going to look at your LinkedIn profile.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:12:49:
Yeah.
Erica Rooney - 00:12:50:
And so when I go to your LinkedIn profile, if I see podcast recordings or audiograms where you are put together and you are articulate and you can communicate, those are all things that transfer into the workplace that are extremely important. And even if it was about a murder podcast or something totally unrelated, if I can see that you are someone who can stand up there and get the job done and are interesting, it's going to draw my attention way more than someone who's just got a bland, boring LinkedIn profile. What a great example.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:13:21:
Oh, I love that. I'm just picturing, especially for a lot of students who are trying to figure out how to stand out, this could be such a helpful reminder that their resume is what's going to get them to that conversation. But when they get to somebody like you, when they talk to a hiring manager, whatever it is, that LinkedIn profile is an opportunity to show off maybe some of these elements like a podcast guest opportunity.
Erica Rooney - 00:13:40:
And since this is the podcast all about podcast opportunities, right, one of my tricks that I love and I have it on my LinkedIn profile is in the featured section. I have made a special. Spotify playlist of all of the podcasts that I have guessed it on. Come on. So all people have to do is click on that and it goes straight to the Erica Anderson Rooney podcast show, you know, and it's every podcast that I've ever guessed it on so that people can see what I'm like. They can experience me in different settings with different people talking about different things. And so I would say if you are guesting on multiple podcasts, absolutely make yourself a Spotify playlist and pop that bad boy on your LinkedIn. So I feel like I'm in the presence of a rock star right now. Like you have your own Spotify playlist. It's kind of like a Wikipedia page was. Yeah. Like, I feel like 15 years ago, if you had your own Wikipedia page, it was like,
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:14:25:
dang.
Erica Rooney - 00:14:25:
But now the flex is you have your own Spotify playlist.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:14:28:
I got my own Spotify playlist.
Erica Rooney - 00:14:29:
You do? Amazing.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:14:30:
Let's talk a little bit about your podcast, the one that you started, I'm sorry, two years ago, and you have 178 episodes. I do. So you're really busy. You have this busy job. Why start a podcast? What was the why behind it? Because it wasn't like, hey, I've got so much time on my hands. How do I use it? That wasn't it. So what was the reason? Why dedicate your time to this?
Erica Rooney - 00:14:51:
As a C-level leader and a woman in a male-dominated industry, as a mom with two small kids. And in HR also, I felt very isolated in my game. There were not a lot of women in my neighborhood that I could connect with in the C-suite. There were not a lot of working moms who understood the pressures that I had when COVID was going on and Black Lives Matter and all of those things. And I knew that there were other women out there. Yeah. I knew. But they were not in my circles. And I wanted to bring those voices to the table because I knew how alone I felt as a C-level leader, woman, mom, in HR, in tech. That I wanted to bring other women out there so they could share their stories about what it is like, but also share how did they do it or how did they move through this. And a big piece of what I talk about is the pay gaps. So there's a 132-year pay gap for women. There's a 150-year leadership gap for women. But that is not my story. I closed those gaps for myself. And other women can do it too, but I wanted to bring those stories to life so that they're not out there searching, diving through Wikipedia pages trying to find out who are these successful women or only reading about like the Forbes 500 ones that are so far away from us that we can't relate. So I wanted to bring these real-life women and just start talking. And that's all I did. I just brought these women, and we just started talking, and it took off. And it's been so much fun ever since.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:16:20:
And when you say took off, I mean, it took off. Your show is in the top 2.5% of the 4 million podcasts out there. It's just, I mean, it's incredible. And I think about the guests who are coming on. And I mean, for the listeners to have this place they can go where they know they're going to hear from women who have these kinds of stories, it's just amazing what you've created. And then for the guests as well, I think they know if they come on your show. That their work and their story is going to be amplified, which is just, it's so powerful. So as you help your guests who are coming on the show, is there anything you tell them to help them prepare for how the episode is going to amplify their work and how they can make the most out of that opportunity?
Erica Rooney - 00:16:59:
Yes. So I always tell them to be as open, real, and raw, and vulnerable about their sticky floor as possible. Because everybody has imposter syndrome. We know this. And so if you get on my show and you tell me that you have imposter syndrome and then that dies right there, it doesn't resonate with people. So I want to know, how did that make you feel? How did it hold you back? Like, tell me a story that, like, you wouldn't really share with anybody about your career climb. And, God, you said this thing one time and it was so embarrassing and you can't believe you did that. Or you got fired from a job and it was so degrading. And what was that story? And share those things because they are happening to everyone. But those are the things that we don't put on the gram, we don't put on our TikToks because we feel shame around them. And I feel that if we bring those stories to light, number one, we have power over them. But then, number two, we tell other women and show other women that this happens. So that is the first thing. But then I always ask them to come with tangible tips or strategies or something that the listener can put into place so that they don't just feel like they're hearing the story of another woman, which is great. Yeah. But so that they can say like, okay, Kim Scott, who wrote Radical Candor, she was on my podcast. This was her sticky floor, but these were the three things she did to break free from that sticky floor. And oh, guess what? That sticky floor still shows up for her today, but now she's more equipped to deal with it. And so those are the two things that I always tell all my podcast guests.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:18:28:
Wow. And I love the takeaway part because I do think there's so much power in the story. And I want to hear the story that other women are sharing, but I can see if I'm driving to work and I'm listening to your podcast and all I'm hearing is the story and not like the takeaway, the what do we do with this, that might get a little heavy. And so that helps to lift the conversation and pull some meaning out of it. But then when you say open, real, raw, vulnerable, love this. I feel like I want that on a t-shirt. Open, real, raw, vulnerable. Do you ever get pushback? Are there any guests who are like, oh, I don't really know if I want to share these things. They're embarrassing. I want to show up in a big way. I mean, you shared your worst guest experience where the person was like, sticky floors do not exist in my house. But is there any resistance in between where someone's like, I don't know, I'm scared to share these negative stories because I want people to view me as capable?
Erica Rooney - 00:19:18:
Yes, all the time.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:19:19:
So what do you say to those folks who might, and this is helpful for our potential guests who are thinking about going on podcasts, but they're like, oh, do I share a negative experience? Is that going to put me in the wrong spotlight?
Erica Rooney - 00:19:19:
So the way that I always talk with my guests about this is I compare it to a wound. If you have an open wound. It's oozy. It's gross. You're having to change the bandages. We're not going to talk about that here. You're still going through it. You're still working through it, okay? But if you have a scar and it is healed and you see it and you know it's there every day and it reminds you about it, we talk about the scars because we are all going through it. And we don't need to hear about the super messy, deep things that are going on in your personal life that you haven't resolved yet. That's, you know, you got to respect a little bit of a privacy level.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:20:05:
Yeah if you don't have as much control over that yet, like you said, it's still oozy. It's still open. If you don't have as much control over it yet, when you bring it into a podcast studio, it might amplify how you're feeling about it. You might have big emotions. But a scar, yeah, I feel like I can point to a scar and talk about it like a battle wound without opening up something that I don't feel like I have control over.
Erica Rooney - 00:20:25:
Absolutely. And I think the control piece is a big thing when we're talking about sticky floors. And so, for example, I put a call out for some podcast guests and one woman said, yes, I'm all in. I want to do it. We started talking. Her sticky floor was that she had recently been terminated from her job. But she didn't want to talk about it. And I get it because it was still so raw and vulnerable for her. She was very protective over that personal situation. And so I said, you know what? I don't think right now is the best time to do the podcast. Like, take some time. Go through what you're going through. And then let's reconnect. Love it. And when she's ready, we can talk about it. But then she'll be able to be on the other side of that. And I tell people all the time, we will all have the gift of hindsight one day. And when we have that gift, that's when we can talk about it.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:21:07:
And what a cool example of boundaries. I love boundaries. And I feel like we're in the season of boundaries. Like if early 2000s was the season of like hustle. I feel like right now we're in the season of boundaries. And so what you're talking about is this really powerful boundary of, okay, I wanna be open. Let me go back to my t-shirt that I want. Open, real, raw, vulnerable. I want to be those things, but can I set some boundaries to protect myself? You literally did the healing gesture, like you were putting a hug around this thing. And it's this idea of when I think about what I'm ready to share on a podcast, let me ask, is it still an open wound or is it a scar? And that can be a helpful way to create some boundary.
Erica Rooney - 00:21:43:
Absolutely.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:21:43:
I love it. So in the line of vulnerable, have you ever shared something on a podcast that you either like wish you could take back or as you were sharing it, you were kind of feeling like, oh, this is still pretty open. Has that ever been your situation?
Erica Rooney - 00:21:55:
Yes.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:21:56:
Yeah. Okay. So what do you do?
Erica Rooney - 00:21:56:
So I tell people all the time, one of my sticky floors was right after COVID, I was drinking way too much wine. And I was trying to embrace that. I was trying to like really wrap my arms around what did that mean for me? Did I want to stop drinking altogether? How did that look? But I hadn't really figured that out yet or mapped it out. But somebody asked me and I was like, well, I should talk about it. I just, I should talk about it. I have to talk about it. I have to tell them the truth. And then I just kind of spit it all out there and it felt messy and it felt unresolved. And it just, it didn't feel great. It didn't feel like I had really even understood my own message yet. And so I was out there spilling this sticky floor that I was still very much stuck in. And so it can happen. It can happen. And that's why I think like when we're talking about being podcast guest is to really think through your answers and to think through like, is this something that I have really understood for myself? And if it's not, like maybe hold back on that.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:22:51:
Hold back.
Erica Rooney - 00:22:52:
Oh, I love it. And you know what? I feel like that moment that we just shared was for anyone who's ever gone to like a networking event or had a job interview or had a conversation, gotten into their car afterward and just been like, oh, why did I say that? I mean, so many of us have been there.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:22:53:
And I think a lot of times the message that I say to myself, the kind of mean one is like, you're just too open. You need to shut it down. Stop oversharing. But it's not the sharing that's the problem that we're talking about here. It's whether or not it's something that's still a wound or is it a scar? And I think that's such a helpful reframe because that's something I can practice. I can kind of practice, you know, before I share a story asking myself, okay, is this a wound? And then bringing that rather than labeling myself as like an oversharer.
Erica Rooney - 00:23:36:
Yes, and I think it's really important to sit down and recognize that you're not always going to have those things always resolved. And you are going to be in that space. And if you are an, quote, overshare like you and I are, sometimes they do spew out, and that's okay. But so what I've learned is that when I do kind of spew things out there is to end it with, I don't have it all figured out just yet, but I'm working on it. And that's been my kind of closing statement when I realized that I've kind of rolled down the messy hill and just let it all out there.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:23:59:
I love that because a lot of what we share on this podcast is preparation is key. Here's how you can make sure that your episode is successful. But it's never going to be perfect. And if we're going to be out there and practicing this, there are going to be some times where we, what did you say, roll down the hill? Roll down the big messy hill.
Erica Rooney - 00:24:21:
Roll down the big messy hill.
Erica Rooney - 00:24:22:
And so if we find ourselves rolling down the hill, it's not like, oh, I messed it up. This one's in the trash. Next time I'll try again. It's, okay, here's my talisman. I'm going to say, you know, this is an example that for me, I haven't quite figured this one out yet. This one's still in progress for me. Thanks for giving me space to talk about it. Maybe next time I come on your show, I'll have more answers. But yeah, that's where I am right now.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:24:42:
And then we can move on to the next question.
Erica Rooney - 00:24:42:
And 99.9% of podcasting do edits. Yes. So I have had people on my show where they have said stuff, we have talked, I have sent them the recording, and then they have called me in a state of panic to say, oh my God, I should not have said that. Please, what can we do? And I'm like, don't worry about it. We can edit it right out there. So I would say too, if you're a guest and you do let it all out there and you need to take it back, that's okay. I also interviewed one woman who was in the financial industry. And because she was connected with a very big known bank, she had to be careful about what she said. And some of the questions that I asked, she literally had to stop me in the middle of the interview. And she's like, I can't talk about that. Like, even though it's my personal story, because I also still represent this bank, I can't talk about that. And to me, it was so wild because I was like, I'm just asking you a question about your life, not about the bank.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:25:34:
Yeah, but she had these regulations.
Erica Rooney - 00:25:35:
But she had regulations that she had to follow. So again, it can all be edited. If you go down the rabbit hole and you can't find yourself there. I think that removes a little pressure for folks, which is a big part of what we want to do on this podcast, because it's all about getting folks into the chair, onto the mic, letting them have this guest podcast experience, considering it a practice, something they can get better at. And I think what you just shared are these really helpful tools that people can kind of keep in their back pocket. I feel like you just shared some like ace card size wisdom that we can keep. In our back pocket, if we find ourselves in one of those situations, we can just pull that out. Absolutely. Just don't be afraid to do that. And I think that's the big thing with podcast guests is sometimes they are afraid to say, hey, can you take that out? Or I shouldn't have said that. And they feel really embarrassed about it, but don't be embarrassed about it. It's also your show if you're the guest on it. So you can say, I don't want that in there.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:26:24:
Yes. Oh, I love it. Okay. I want to talk, we've talked around your book. We've talked about sticky floors, but I would love to hear about your book, The Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors title. I just love. And when I first read the title, all I could think of were my actual sticky floors because I have a three-year-old. And it's such a powerful metaphor because it could mean that, but you're really talking about the things that have people stuck. And then of course we have this beautiful glass ceiling metaphor of like breaking all the way through. Please tell us about this book. I can't wait to hear it.
Erica Rooney - 00:26:50:
Yes, So it's all about shattering the limiting beliefs and the toxic behaviors that keep women stuck. And like I said earlier, we've got this 132-year pay gap, the 150-year leadership gap, but that doesn't have to be your story. It's not my story. And so in this book, we talk about my four-step method that helps women really become aware and mindful of what those sticky floors are, those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors, and how they can work through them. And so we talk about imposter syndrome, perfectionism, fear, burnout. We talk about addiction. We talk about toxic relationships. So all of these things that, you know, we're in a society today where women in our generation, we were told that we could do it all, be it all, and have it all.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:27:34:
Right. No pressure.
Erica Rooney - 00:27:36:
Right. But what we heard was that we had to be everything. For everyone. And so it really kind of dispels that. And we talk and we go deep into what those sticky floors are and how they show up for women of all different ages, industries, backgrounds, races, and how they break through them. Because it's not the same for each person.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:27:55:
Yes. I love what you're bringing to this. You're mentioning some of the things like the pay gap and the leadership gap, but you're talking about those as averages, not as individual stories. And I feel like that's important for two reasons. One, because you're an example of that doesn't have to be your story. You can absolutely demolish those numbers and have something different. But then two, those are averages. So for a lot of women at certain ages of certain races, the numbers are even worse. And the gaps can be even worse. so when you bring up how this looks for different women, I'm picturing that when people read this book, they're going to be able to see themselves in what you're sharing.
Erica Rooney - 00:28:31:
Yes. And it really is a book for ambitious women who want to do, quote, it all. But it's about redefining what that looks like. Yeah. And making sure that that it all matches what you really want. And my biggest hope for this book is that when my daughter is older, she's five right now, that she picks it up and she's like, mom, what the hell is this? Right? Like this book is so old and outdated. What are you even talking about?
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:28:55:
Did you really need to hear this?
Erica Rooney - 00:28:56:
Like these messages that right now are so vital. I mean, literally life-saving for some folks to hear some of these messages, to take some of the pressure off of trying to be it all. The hope is that when your five-year-old is to where we are now, that she's going to look at that and be like, what is this old school nonsense? Did y'all really need to hear this? Oh, I hope that's true. And like, let's do the math real quick. Did y'all really need to hear this? Oh, I hope that's true. And like, let's do the math real quick. Not girl math, but like real math. Okay. 132 years. I'm going to be gone. In theory, my kids should be gone. And we're talking about like my grandkids and my great grandkids. My hope is that that gap and the work from this book can close that gap so much that my five-year-old is like, what the heck?
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:29:34:
I love the perspective of looking at the gap and wondering about the women who will be there when that gap is supposedly going to be done. And I get really frustrated when I do this work sometimes. I don't know if you find this to be true too, where sometimes I feel like progress is slow. Like when I'm talking to women and I feel like we're talking about the same things that I was struggling with in my career when I started. And so whenever I feel like things are slow, I think about my grandmother who she lost her job because her boss, and I'm going to use this word intentionally, found out that she was pregnant. She was hiding it. She was like wearing the big stuffy sweatshirts and like trying to act like she wasn't pregnant because she knew as soon as her boss found out that was going to be her last day. And it was really like this caught you moment. Like, oh. Caught you, Linda. Guess this is your last day. Because there really weren't any rights for women to continue working after something like that.
Erica Rooney - 00:30:23:
But here's the other thing about Linda, too. Linda, I don't know how old she is or any of that, but Linda— 80 and thriving. Yeah. Linda is 80 and thriving. Linda probably could not get a mortgage on her own without her husband's signature. Without her husband's signature. So when you do feel like it stalled, look at some of that progress.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:30:38:
Amen. And I think that's been life-saving for me. When things feel slow, I try to remember some— It was 1988. 1988, women business owners could still be required to have male relatives co-sign on business loans. 1988, that was under the Reagan administration. That was made illegal. 1988, women business owners could still be required to have male relatives co-sign on business loans. 1988, that was under the Reagan administration. That was made illegal. I wish everybody listening could see my face because it's just one of disgust. So when we think about, okay, it doesn't feel like there's been progress, when we put it into some of those longer term, it's like just a couple generations ago. Yeah. So I do find that to be helpful when we feel like things are stuck. We've been talking a lot about stuck. And when we want to see progress to look back at some of those things. Absolutely. Oh, I love that. Well, I can't wait to check out your book. And when we want to see progress to look back at some of those things. Absolutely. Oh, I love that. Well, I can't wait to check out your book. So we're going to get printed copies soon. We're going to get printed copies soon. I want to buy a hundred. I just want a wallpaper because I love the metaphor of sticky to glass ceiling and just breaking through all of it. Yes. Amazing. So if somebody wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that now? If they want to hear more about the book or about your podcast, what's the best way for folks to reach out?
Erica Rooney - 00:31:25:
Yes. Yeah. Amazing. So if somebody wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that now? If they want to hear more about the book or about your podcast, what's the best way for folks to reach out? I am all over LinkedIn, y'all. As a chief people officer, that is like where I play all day. So absolutely go to LinkedIn. Let me know that you heard me on this podcast and then go check out my podcast. That's the next best place to find me. And I'm wherever you're listening to this podcast. And if somebody wants to be a podcast guest on your show.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:31:46:
That's the next best place to find me. And I'm wherever you're listening to this podcast. And if somebody wants to be a podcast guest on your show. Hit a girl up on LinkedIn. Hit a girl up. Say, I heard you. I've got a sticky floor story. It's no longer an open wound. I want to talk about it. Oh, I love it. It's no longer an open wound. I want to talk about it. Oh, I love it. Okay, so what I'm hearing, Erica, is when somebody reaches out to you, it's helpful if they remember what your podcast is about. They put their story in the context of what you share on your podcast, and they make what they want to say relevant to your potential listeners. Am I hearing that? Yeah. 100%. Do most of your pitches look like that? No. So somebody could stand out by making sure that they follow that very simple and very helpful rule. Yes. And what I will say, too, this is my biggest rule. And I don't like the way it sounds when I say it, but this is what I do for people is make sure you're serving others.
Erica Rooney - 00:32:20:
No. So somebody could stand out by making sure that they follow that very simple and very helpful rule. Yes. And what I will say, too, this is my biggest rule. And I don't like the way it sounds when I say it, but this is what I do for people is make sure you're serving others. So if you're pitching yourself to me, how can you serve me? How can you make my show great? What do you bring to my show? Don't make it about your book. Don't make it about your podcast, your life. How does your book podcast life benefit me? And that's what I'm going to say. Don't make it about your podcast, your life. How does your book podcast life benefit me? And that's what I'm going to say. Oh, my gosh. Yes. That would be amazing on the show. Come on. Yes. Okay. I love it. All right. Well, hopefully you're going to get lots of pitches just from this show. I want to hear more of the sticky floor stories. All right, y'all.
Dr. Sarah Glova - 00:32:57:
All right. Well, hopefully you're going to get lots of pitches just from this show. I want to hear more of the sticky floor stories. All right, y'all. Thank you so much for listening or watching this podcast. If this content was helpful to you, be sure to follow us on any podcast app or on YouTube or social media. We're at Podcast Ally. And if you're looking to be a guest on more podcasts to grow your brand, check out podcastally.com. I'm Dr. Sarah Glova, and I'd love for you to follow me on LinkedIn as well, or you can visit sarahglova.com to learn more about me. We'll see you again soon on the Podcast Ally podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Glova, and I'd love for you to follow me on LinkedIn as well, or you can visit sarahglova.com to learn more about me. We'll see you again soon on the Podcast Ally podcast.