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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:00.12] - John S. Berry
Now the bad examples.
[00:00:02.00] - Tony Goins
Boy, bad examples. You know, I won't call names.
[00:00:06.00] - Voiceover
Welcome to veteran led. Today we're highlighting our veteran guests examples of bad leadership.
[00:00:10.20] - Danny Maher
I'll go me for the worst.
[00:00:12.16] - Voiceover
Every guest is asked to share three examples of bad leadership.
[00:00:16.12] - Kandis Porter
Ooh, the bad.
[00:00:18.05] - Voiceover
But they don't have to name names.
[00:00:19.16] - Paul R. Lawrence
I actually work for a person who I think, you know, you think, like, who goes to hell? Osama bin Laden, Adolf Hitler. I actually work for a person who I actually think I met somebody who will go to hell.
[00:00:28.07] - Voiceover
First up with the bad is Kandis Porter. Taking all the credit.
[00:00:30.12] - Kandis Porter
I've seen a leader who, when things were going well, took all the credit. So didn't extend credit to the team that helped get them there, but when it went wrong, pointing blame. And I think that that just lights the culture of an organization on fire.
[00:00:48.11] - Voiceover
Next up is Jamie Peer. What are we supposed to do here?
[00:00:51.18] - Jamie Peer
A lot of the issues that come up in the military is because or just employment in general is because the duties, responsibilities, and expectations weren't clearly defined in the beginning and people just expect people to figure things out. And if they don't, then they're a problem.
[00:01:07.14] - Voiceover
At number eight is Eric Isham. Throwing bodies.
[00:01:11.07] - Eric Isham
Trying to throw bodies at problems and not. Not sitting down and solving them in a more logical way.
[00:01:16.10] - Eric Isham
It's a costly problem, and you just. It's unsustainable. I would caution anybody listening before you make a hire to fix something, see if there's another way that you can fix that through software, through better processes.
[00:01:29.19] - Voiceover
With number seven on our list is Reggie Ordonez. Insecure Leaders.
[00:01:34.12] - Reggie Ordonez
Always worried that somebody's out to get them. Always worried that they have to be the one in charge, that delegating the play is somehow discrediting them and their. Their achievement. They're set in their ways. They're not willing to take input, and they believe it's their way or the highway. What you get is an authoritarian that. That isn't empowering people.
[00:01:57.10] - Voiceover
Number six is Yolanda Clarke. Forgetting its mission. First people always,
[00:02:02.03] - Yolanda Clarke
Our job is to know what's going on. We had all been studying all the activity of this region, and we knew this was a terrible idea. And the soldiers were coming to me, the XO at the time and our first sergeant and saying, this is a bad idea. Let me tell you why. You don't know this. You don't know this. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. And we're like, I hear you, I hear you. I agree with you. Well, let's go to the commander and let's hope that he doesn't approve of Miss. You know, not hope, but, like, we'll. We'll tell him we don't agree with the mission we did. He's like, no, we're gonna do it, but we also have to manage the risk. Right. At what cost? He approved it anyway. And that team hit an IED and we lost our first soldier. And it was the worst.
[00:02:54.22] - John S. Berry
Then the commander won't listen. Wow.
[00:02:58.20] - Yolanda Clarke
Where the objective is more valuable than the people. I'm not crying. You're crying.
[00:03:08.14] - John S. Berry
Mission first. People always, unfortunately, they are the commanders that don't, you know, they're just not good leaders. They just. They don't have the, you know, gwc, get it, want it, have the capability, capacity to do it, and they don't get it. Some of them don't want it, and some just don't have the capacity. And we've all. We've all seen that later. So that's a really tough, tough example.
[00:03:30.18] - Voiceover
And at number five is Brad Flanagan.
[00:03:33.06] - Brad Flanagan
I had a terrible experience with a first sergeant who just treated everyone who was supposed to be under his authority as if they were his. And that's what he would call you is my. And so that really stifled the growth. And it's unfortunate that it happens in such immersed environments that it creates challenges in the head space.
[00:04:03.12] - Voiceover
Tied at number four is Ryan Hendrickson and Candace Porter.
[00:04:06.22] - Ryan Hendrickson
Leading by fear, Leading that way. Everybody can see that the reason why that leader resorts to those tactics, whether it's intimidation or fear or what not, is because they don't actually know what they're doing. And so now all of a sudden, the other two traits that I talked about come full in. I'm not investing in the mission. You don't know what you're doing, and you don't lead by example.
[00:04:28.02] - Kandis Porter
I once worked with a leader that was constantly leading by fear. So people weren't sure if they were gonna get fired, have a job, would sometimes belittle people in public situations and give very public criticism. And that it just feels bad.
[00:04:45.21] - Voiceover
Number three makes perfect sense from our next guest. Kelo is calm and collected. There's no need to scream.
[00:04:51.17] - Kelo Makelele
You know, we're no longer in the military anymore. You know, there's no bullets flying. It's not a life or death situation.
[00:04:58.20] - Kelo Makelele
Except for in some cases, we're dealing with, you know, utilities for power, water, you know, healthcare. But for the most part, it's not a life or death situation. There's no need to scream at Team members. So we do not tolerate that.
[00:05:11.23] - Voiceover
In the 2 seat is Dr. Paul R. Lawrence being too self oriented.
[00:05:16.11] - Paul R. Lawrence
I guess the worst leaders I saw and I actually worked for a person who I think, you know, you think like who goes to hell? Osama bin Laden, Adolf Hitler. I actually work for a person who I actually think I met somebody who will go to hell, who was a regular person, was the world's worst boss. And I think about him all the time. He was very self oriented. I don't think the word we had ever come out of his mouth. It was I, this, I, that, I whatever, incredibly unprofessional. Call people names if they didn't achieve, you know, really embarrass them personally. It really kind of formed my thinking in terms of what not to do and how to think about, you know, the positive attributes of what you should be doing.
[00:05:54.04] - Voiceover
Number one, Danny Maher, also known as Donny O'Malley from Vet TV, talks about a time he let his team down.
[00:06:00.02] - Danny Maher
I'll go me for the worst. Okay, self deprecate, right? Here we go. We were having the biggest Silkies hike yet in San Diego in Oceanside. People coming from all over the country to Oceanside to experience this event. Some of them coming to see me specifically. I was also doing a stand up comedy the night before. Friday night I was doing a big stand up. My biggest crowd ever. Biggest hike the next day. I drank too much before my set. First half was okay, second half was terrible. Then I blacked out. Remember vomiting? I just remember vomiting in the middle of a bar in Oceanside. Running to the bathroom. I woke up in a room with some chick. And I hadn't done that in a while. And then I sleep in the next morning, I miss the beginning of the hike and I don't even make it to the hike that hundreds of people from across the country were coming to. I didn't even make it till noon. Started at 8, maybe 11, 11:30. And that was one of the most embarrassing, shameful moments of my entire life. Without question, the most shameful life, shameful moments of my professional career. And I lost the respect of hundreds of people. Hundreds, Maybe even all 600 people who showed up. Maybe all of them.
[00:07:27.08] - John S. Berry
There's got to be one lance corporal that said that. Donny O'Malley, he knows how to party. You gotta, there's gotta be some EM out there, Lance corporal that thinks you, you, you know, you, you're a star because of that. But anyway,
[00:07:43.03] - Danny Maher
Dude, that guy didn't show up to his own hike till 12. Legend.
[00:07:47.18] - Danny Maher
Exactly. Sorry. Go ahead. The staff how you like. Let's go back into the shame now. How you let the staff down. Yeah.
[00:07:55.11] - Voiceover
Thank you. Thank you. That's it for our list. Are there any examples we missed? Let us know in the comments and catch John and our veteran guests next time on Veteran led.
[00:08:09.23] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we pursue our mission of promoting veteran leadership in business. So strengthening the veteran community and getting veterans all of the benefits that they earn. If you know a leader who should be on the Veteran Led podcast, report to our online community by searching veteranled on your favorite social channels and posting in the comments. We want to hear how your military challenges prepared you to leave your industry or community. And we will let the world know.
[00:08:40.08] - John S. Berry
And of course, hit subscribe and join me next time on Veteran Led.