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Welcome to Career Convos with Nikki, where I share my experiences as both a leader and an employee in corporate America. In these episodes, I cover everything from finding a job and landing that promotion to managing employees and navigating the unwritten rules as a black woman and disruptive millennial in the workplace. I also answer career questions from my audience, offering advice and insights to help you find professional clarity and pursue your career goals with confidence. I'll talk about accounting a lot as that's my area of expertise but this career advice you can apply regardless of what field you work in. You're in charge, and you deserve it!
Okay. So I am going to record a podcast about public accounting versus industry, and it's gonna be the pros and cons, what you get, what you versus what you don't. And I'm thinking about doing an introductory conversation about the public versus industry for accountants. And then doing a part 2 where I have somebody from public accounting to come on and share those experiences. And so I'm I'm I'm or maybe I'll just do an episode where I'm trying to find somebody that wants to come on and talk about that.
Nikki Winston, CPA:Because some things that I've seen over the course of my career is I remember when I was about to graduate from the Ohio State University with my accounting degree, the way that public accounting was basically just I don't wanna say shoved down our throat, but if you walked in the career services office, that's all you saw. You saw the big four when you talked to a career adviser about career options. They talked a lot about joining as, audit staff and with with big 4, and it really wasn't at at at the at at Fisher, there wasn't a lot of talk about, you know, the 8. There wasn't a lot of talk about anything outside of the big 4 as public accounting. So for me, it took me a minute to say, oh, these are not just the only 4 firms, but they are the more dominant and the more globally recognized names.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And so I was intentional about not taking that route. And the reason is because of the the stigma around working in public accounting is if you go into public accounting, you're living out a suitcase, you're working 60, 70, 80 hours a week, and it's almost like a boot camp is the impression that I got. And when I got out of school, my millennial mindset is I don't want to leave college and then start working, and I'm stressed out on day 1. And I'm a 100 miles and running on day 1, and I don't have time to stop and take a breath. I don't want that kind of job.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So that's what turned me off from public accounting. And I've had conversations about the early years of my career where I was a job hopper. And there's actually an episode which episode is it? I don't know. It's from a couple seasons ago, but it's still timely and relevant.
Nikki Winston, CPA:But I talked about my experience being a job hopper, and part of it was I didn't wanna go the public accounting route, and I didn't really know what else to do because it was like, if you don't do public accounting, there was no real explanation of what other opportunities I had in industry, in government, in nonprofit manufacturing. I ended up starting off my career in manufacturing, and I said, I'm gonna put this in the basket with public accounting that I'm not gonna do manufacturing because I don't like cost accounting. I also said I didn't like my classes where I was doing all of the modeling and the forecasting and all of that. I said, let me make sure I stay away from that, and I put that in the bucket too. I have a subsequent conversation about when I actually landed in a job like that.
Nikki Winston, CPA:But for purposes of this conversation and having the whole conversation about public accounting versus industry, it took me some time. Well, when I was job hopping, I I just I I didn't have any guidance. I didn't know anybody that was an accountant who could say, well, here's an option. Here's what you can do. Here's what you can do.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I was the first person in my family I'm trying not to misspeak. Did my brother he ended up going back. So I was the first person in my family to actually graduate from college. And so I didn't really know who to turn to about what do you do after you graduate from school. Or, if I want to work as an accountant, as a corporate accountant, where do I start?
Nikki Winston, CPA:And so I would just find jobs that sounded appealing to me and say, oh yeah. This sounds like a big corporate accounting job. This is the job I want. And I would do the interview and get all these rave reviews about the interview and then I would get the job. And I'm working in the job and then I will start seeing other jobs because I would say, well, is this is this where I wanna be?
Nikki Winston, CPA:Is this the type of manager I wanna work for? Do I even wanna live in this state kind of thing? And I would see things like, no. I don't wanna live in Ohio because I'm I'm done with the winter and the blizzards, and I don't wanna work for this type of manager because I can run circles around this manager, and I don't feel like there's a relationship here. I don't feel like there's any value for me here.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So when I was going in to the jobs, I was looking at what's in this for me. And a separate conversation that we need to have is about interviewing and how we go into these interviews just wishing and hoping and praying that the company likes us. But the reality is you should be vetting that company and asking them questions the same way that they're asking you because of the time, the energy, and the effort that you're gonna have to put into this company. And so that that's what it was for me. If I didn't like it there, if I didn't feel comfortable, if I didn't feel valued, then I left.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And I I will gladly wear a shirt that says job hopper on the front for those reasons because it's not like I'm leaving just the bop around because it it's it's a lot. You expend a lot of energy going to different interviews, going through multiple rounds of interviews, going through an offer and negotiation phase, then an onboarding phase. And I feel like we have these 30 day or mostly 90 day probationary periods in jobs, but I feel like it takes a good year. It takes a good year for you to really get into a job and know what you're doing. And I will go back to a highlight in my career is when I worked at GE, and I was just like, okay.
Nikki Winston, CPA:What exactly like how do I say it? I'm trying to figure out how to phrase that so I'll come back to that. And I ended up I'm gonna end up turning this into an episode. This is supposed to be a voice memo as a reminder to record an episode and write down some notes about the public accounting versus industry conversation for accountants, but it's it's kinda just coming out. So I guess it's on my heart because this is totally unscripted.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I just wrapped up my calls for the day, and I don't know why this I don't know why this episode was put on my heart, but I was I was moved to share this. And so I went off on a tangent, which made me forget what I was about to say. But if you've tuned in to Career Combos with Nikki before, you know that tangents are my thing, that I don't edit my podcast. I'm not here for perfection. So I if you hear me call for clear my throat and right now, I'm sitting on my chaise right by my deck.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So you might even hear the birds chirping, but never mind that because this is real life over here and so there is no perfection. I like unedited and unfiltered conversations. I like organic engagement. And so this voice memo is most likely gonna become a episode. But where was I?
Nikki Winston, CPA:Okay. So I'm wearing the shirt of the job hopper because I left a row. I would leave a row if I felt like it wasn't what was best for me, and I didn't wanna wait for a company to say, oh, this isn't working out, or we're not sure. If it didn't feel right to me in my soul, in my chakras, then I would leave. And if that meant, yep.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I've been here for 13 months, and I'm out of here. Or I've been here for almost 2 years or I've been here for a year. And it doesn't matter. There is no timeline for you to have to stay in a role. And way back when when I was coming up in my career as a millennial and we are we were in those years of the millennials.
Nikki Winston, CPA:You know? We we a little grown now, and we working in these corporate jobs alongside these baby boomers who put a lot of these traditional 9 to 5 in the office 5 days a week type of things in place, and that was being spoon fed to us. And we're like, uh-uh no we are not doing this. We don't have to be in the office from 9 to 5. You don't have to look me in my face or see what shoes I'm wearing just to know if I'm working or not.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I I know how to operate myself. I know what needs to be done. I have the discipline to get done what needs to get done, and I realized that a lot of people don't have that muscle. And so maybe that's where it came from, from this fear or for from this hesitation that we have to adopt this way of work or where I was originally going with that is putting in place these rules where you have to be in a role for 24 months before you move on. And I felt like, no.
Nikki Winston, CPA:What if somebody comes into the job and they figure it out in a year? And they've gotten to the point where they're so good at what they do that they're ready to go to the next level. Do they have to sit in this job for another 12 months just because of some rule that somebody made up? A rule that can be revised? A rule that can be, you know, revised.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I'm not even gonna say that. I'm not gonna say bent or broken. We not bending and breaking because I don't play about integrity. But it's definitely a rule that's not in the bible. It's not the gospel.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And so there's ways around that where, oh, I think that's where I was going with GE was the time. So when when I started there, I started in a job that end up ended up becoming a a niche area of expertise for me in capital markets and securitization. Now normally, when you go into an accounting job in industry, it's staff, senior, accounting manager, or something like that. So you're doing month end close. You're doing debits and credits.
Nikki Winston, CPA:You're putting together you're creating the P&L Right? You're creating the financials, closing the books to create the p and l, which feeds into the balance sheet. You reconcile those accounts and then you go into the cash flow statement, owner's equity, financial reporting, forecasting, all these other things. Right?
Nikki Winston, CPA:Nowhere on my radar and nowhere do I remember in school unless I just was not paying attention where there was any conversation about capital markets, about securitization. I went through a rigorous interview cycle to get the job And when I got it, I was just like it blew my mind. Like, I don't even have the experience, and they hire me? Okay. I'm gonna be here for a minute.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So that's when my job hopping stopped when I got to GE, and it was because I knew there was a challenge in front of me. I didn't know a damn thing about securitization and I remember during the interview, the person who became my manager was like, you know, it takes it's gonna take about 6 to 9 months to learn this job. So I'm listening, but in my mind, I'm like, what? No. I'm me.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I went to the Ohio State University. That's where my accounting degree is from. This is not gonna take this long. That's me in 2,009. So I get there the 1st day, and I'm like, oh, yeah.
Nikki Winston, CPA:Okay. This is definitely gonna take the full 9 months to figure all of this out. So yeah. Okay. My tangent.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I'm back I'm back full circle. Where I was going with that was I was talking about not having to be in a job for a long time, and then I was talking about, this is what happens when you don't take notes and you just freestyle. So I I I don't know. But y'all just y'all just roll with me because I'm I'm making points here. I promise I'm making some points.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And if I am, I'm hoping even up to this point I've made some valid points. But I, this is why I like organic conversation. Like, forget the scripts. Forget the perfection. This is what we're doing.
Nikki Winston, CPA:We need to have these type of real conversations. But it really took me that amount of time to learn secure securitization, to understand capital markets. And then when I get to talking about my journey with the CPA exam and why FAR was the easiest section for me, but it's the hardest section. It's consistently the hardest section for candidates with maybe a 40% pass rate on average. And I talk about that because of what I learned at GE and far was easy for me because of the teaching.
Nikki Winston, CPA:It wasn't just me going to work every day. I felt like I was learning something every single day, and I was fortunate enough to work with people who understood securitization and capital markets at a granular level to where this person I don't even know if I I I I don't know. I'm not gonna say her name. But when I tell you she was the coldest at capital markets, at bonds, at at all of it so I felt like this is a real subject matter expert right here. Anytime I had a question, hey.
Nikki Winston, CPA:How exactly does this work? How do we know when is the best time to issue debt? What is the deal with my amortization schedule? Why is it not tying out? So, you know, all of these things look.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I remember looking at waterfalls. Like, hey. Can you explain to me what this waterfall is? Every time I send her a question, it doesn't matter how how elementary it was. I would get, number 1, a quick reply.
Nikki Winston, CPA:Number 2, an explanation of who, what, where, when, why, and how. And she made she figured out how to make the connection between what we were doing in our desk jobs. What was happening in the economy because debt was a driver behind when to issue debt, the timing of of issuing bonds, and this was all in addition to the regular accounting stuff, the month end close and all of this stuff. And so there were times where she was always available. She was always open to share her expertise, but she offered feedback in a direct yet sincere way, and you got that feedback whether you wanted it or not.
Nikki Winston, CPA:You didn't have to ask for it. There was no, I don't wanna hear it. And a lot of times I mean, sometimes she would say stuff to me, and I would be like, damn. I knew that. Why did I mess that up?
Nikki Winston, CPA:I knew that. But I never felt like she was jabbing me. It was always like, this is wrong. This is why it's wrong. This is this is the power like, she would reference guidance and and policies and the codification and all these things to say, I'm not just emotionally attacking you.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I'm telling you that this is wrong. This is why it's wrong. This is how you can fix it going forward. And so it was motivation to wanna be excellent, to wanna always do a good job, to not just double check, but triple check. I didn't I was double checking things.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I paid attention to detail. When I worked at GE, I was triple checking like let me let me let me triple check it one more time. Let me write my email. Let me see if I like the way it sounds. Let me attach my file, but let me open the file while it's attached so I can make sure that if I made any changes, the changes are reflected in this.
Nikki Winston, CPA:Like, GE had me so or has me to this point very deep into crossing t's and dotting s. And it it's just it's just a way that you that you operate. And I felt like this was this was always in me and that's part of why I ended up being a job hopper. It's like I'm not learning anything here. I don't like the environment here.
Nikki Winston, CPA:If if if I didn't like it, I was leaving and and that's just what that was. But I developed some I'll call it professionally growing up. I grew up professionally at GE and so I learned how to say there there are a couple things I don't like here, but there's a ton of things that I love here. And the things that I don't like, I can deal with considering the things I love that I get to do, and that's both at my at my desk and outside of my desk. So that's the technical side of it.
Nikki Winston, CPA:That's the technical side of the professional development and the learning and then comes the I don't wanna call it social. The the professional social, the the interpersonal, the engagement. I I don't know what to call it. I just call it being myself. But the leadership part of the role and maybe the awareness.
Nikki Winston, CPA:Maybe we'll call it the awareness part of the role where you start to make connections between what you do at your job and what's happening in the economy. If you leave and go to some professional happy hour, they're most likely talking about sports or news or something else. And so when you can hear people talking about things or for me, my thing was reading the Wall Street Journal and that goes back to my my days at Fisher where one of my professors, Professor David Williams, taught us accounting out of The Wall Street Journal. That might be a whole another conversation too, but it goes back to me reading the Wall Street Journal and I can say, oh, I remember hearing about this at work or thinking in my mind like, writing out journal entries in my mind. Like, if they sold this company or if they acquired this company for all stock or all cash, this is what the entry would look like.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So being able to make those type of connections and also I I don't know how to give advice on this part or even how to talk about this part because for me, this is the part where I say I'm just being me. I just show up as myself. You go to work and you make sure that when you show up, you actually show up because like true accounting fashion, there's an opportunity cost of everything. And so the opportunity cost of you being at work is all the other things that you have to abandon temporarily or not in order to be at this job. So if I have to be away from my family, if I have to sit in this traffic, if I have to get up early and I'm not a morning person, I'm gonna make sure that I show up as me and that I show up as a a walking point of excellence every time I'm here.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And so taking that back to the original point of or I don't think I got into the original point. When I was job hopping, I felt like, should I go into public accounting? This is where I okay. And see. I was gonna bring it home.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I was gonna land it. I was gonna land this plane in Turks and Caicos. Y'all just had to ride with me. So the thing was early in my career, I felt like especially because I was moving around because I wasn't happy I wasn't a a 100% happy in these jobs. And I had to be okay with not being a 100% happy because that was my expectation as a new millennial in corporate America in the early 2000, I'm like, let me go out here and just I want the job to work for me too.
Nikki Winston, CPA:Like, it needs to be fruitful and and fulfilling to me too. But early in my career, a lot of the movements sometimes had me feeling like, well, do I need to pivot and go into public accounting just for long term career success? Because there was this energy that if you didn't work in public accounting that you wouldn't have a fruitful career, you would miss out on things. And I was like, am I missing out on something? And then I would see some of my friends who worked in public, and they were always in a different location working on something, like, doing what felt like, you know, some some some big girl shit.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And so I was like, man, that's dope. But, again, back to GE, For anybody who's familiar with what GE was, I'm sure it's still a great company now, but familiar with what GE was in the early 2000 early to mid 2000, for me, when And I would I I I would look at it as like a planet, and I And I would I I will look at it as like a planet, and I would say it feels like when I walk in this building that we are on a totally different planet from everybody else because this company is so far up in the stratosphere that no other company is touching them when it comes to employee engagement and culture and leadership development and the the technical the deep domain expertise that you had the chance to develop, the networking and collaborations that happened, the opportunities. I felt like there is no company on the level with GE at that time. And it was that experience that was like, working here is the equivalent of whatever they say working in public accounting is. And I'm I'm saying that because of the level of excellence that that was around me, that helped to develop me as I was growing up professionally.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And we have to and it's just like accounting. So the couple the the the the other thing I wanna say is that we have to get into the habit of telling the untold stories of accounting. We have to talk about we have to expand our mindset to focus on what are the great things that we do. What is the value that we add to our companies, to our clients, to our ed our institutions, our educational institutions? Because it's not just about long hours and debits and credits and low pay for new accountants.
Nikki Winston, CPA:There are so many amazing things in this profession that we can talk about, that we can speak about. And it it's taken me back to beyond the balance sheet, which is an an event like no other that the Atlanta accounting community we came together recently, and we collaborated on an event to bring a Corey Ramsey to Atlanta, who was the 1st black chairman of the AICPA. And we had a a fireside style conversation with him where he also talked about we have to we have to really just change the conversation. And these these are not his words, so I'm not quoting him. But he he said some really, he shares some some really great insights and he spoke so eloquently about it that there there's there's negatives to to every career, to every industry, to every profession, and we cannot continue to push the narrative about long hours and living out of suitcases and, you know, all these other things.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And so hold on y'all. My baby was at the door. I told her to come back later. So but that's been outside of I love you with my kids, come back later is the 2nd most used phrase with them. That's for a reason, and that's also another episode for another day.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I'm at 27 minutes. I try to keep these episodes to 30 minutes so that y'all can come here to Career Convos with Nikki and get what you need to get, and then go back to your job or go back about your day. But where was I at before she knocked on my door? What was I talking about? Public versus private.
Nikki Winston, CPA:Feeling like they're equivalent. Oh, okay. Yes. I was talking about beyond the balance sheet. Okay.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So just going back to the importance of talking about the cool things that we get to do as accountants in our profession. That alone will help to address some of these pipeline issues. But, also, it'll help to give candidates some what do I wanna call it? Some guidance and some insights into the options that they have outside of public accounting, even outside of industry because I felt like there's 2 options. There's public and there's industry, and I don't wanna do public.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So I chose industry, and I'm glad I did. I I'm glad I did. I have had and still having I'm I'm having. How about that present tense? I'm having an amazing career, and I've been able to do some some historic things, see some amazing things, and that's the narrative I wanna share.
Nikki Winston, CPA:That's what I wanna tell. Because when it comes to month end, you may work long hours. If you have the right people and processes and technology in place, you you might be gone at 3 o'clock every day. So it really just depends. A lot of the the the negatives that are amplified about accounting are driven by people.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And some what do I wanna call them? Some I can't think of the word, but some Flintstone processes and also people who things can be changed. And so if if the narrative is accountants work long hours, well, let's let's get in a a room and have some conversations with the employers about employee engagement and culture and making time for their employees to do something outside of work. That's where that change starts. That's where that change starts.
Nikki Winston, CPA:If it's accountants are coming into the profession and they don't know anything, let's start talking to the educators. What's going on in your accounting curriculums? How are you putting this together? What what is your what does your degree program look like? What are your students learning when they leave here?
Nikki Winston, CPA:What are they doing after they leave here? Because where they go to work or if they decide to go back to school or if they pursue a CPA license, that says a lot. So get in the room with the educators. And I I feel like we're moving towards that. We're really gonna the pipeline issues are gonna continue.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I mean, they're ad nauseam at this point, but I feel like we know what the issues are, but there's too many there's too many sidebar conversations and there needs to be a grander conversation. Because I I will go sit down with anybody and over some some good food and some cute drinks. And I can tell you what my perspective of the pipeline issue is. And this is somebody who has worked in these accounting streets for the last 20 ish years, but I still feel like feel like there's a lot for me to learn and being in these these spaces in these companies as both an employee and as a manager. So I've sat on both sides of the table, working in public versus private equity backed and start ups and all these other types of entities.
Nikki Winston, CPA:And so I I want us to not feel like we only we have limited options in the accounting space because there's so many things that we can do. There's so many aspects of the company that we touch that it's it's we're not just being counters in the corner. We really are the business partners because everybody would have to have a conversation with us, especially around budget time, especially during the month when we're looking at who spent over their budget and who didn't and who's gonna be called down to the carpet for being $30 over their budget. So or they wanna make moves in the company and the first thing they say when they email you or ping you is, hey. I'm not an accountant, but I need help with this.
Nikki Winston, CPA:We wanna do a, b, and c, and they wanna know what the impact is gonna be. How much is it gonna cost? What's the ROI? All those sorts of things. So that's where the accountants come in, and I wanna continue this conversation and have somebody one of my friends who've worked in public accounting, I wanna have them come on because I don't I I wanna share my my perspective from the industry side of things, but I would love to get some insights into the public accounting side of things just to really have a a rich discussion about one versus the other.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So, okay, that's it for now. That's it for my freestyle. I am, yeah, most likely gonna turn this voice mail into an episode, but we're over 30 minutes. So if you are listening to this through your earbuds while you're at work or while you're in the car, in traffic, or wherever you are, I appreciate you tuning in. Definitely come back and check out some more episodes, and then make sure that you you subscribe first so that this podcast continues to get the visibility that is needed.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I think people need this and they want it, but they don't know that it's out here. And so it's important for us to support causes that are valuable and important to us. And, also, rate the episodes. If you say this is everything I came for, this is a 5 star episode, episode, and I'm gonna rate it and I'm gonna come back and listen again, definitely do. If you like, you know what?
Nikki Winston, CPA:I don't know what Nicki talking about. This is a whole mess. This, that, and the third, and I'm not interested. That's cool too. I I realize I'm not for everybody, but I am here for the people that need it.
Nikki Winston, CPA:So that being said, thank y'all so much for tuning in to Career Convos with Nikki. Check me out on LinkedIn if we're not connected already. We should be, online these days. I'm on threads most of the time at nickwinstoncpa, n I k k w I n s t o n c p a, and whole bunch of good career stuff and CPA exam guidance on nickwinstoncpa.com, all that good stuff. So y'all be good.
Nikki Winston, CPA:I'll talk to y'all soon. Let me know what you think about this episode, and, we'll be back soon. Y'all be good.