Episode 15 - Coming Into Your Own

Show Notes

Welcome to your weekly dose of The Psychedelic Psychologist. In this episode, you meet Roxy who does her research before she dives into the healing benefits of psychedelics. Roxy shares her story about connecting to her true self through working with both MDMA and "Magic" Mushrooms. She discusses in details her experience of transformation through learning about joy, pain and loving herself. 

What is The Psychedelic Psychologist?

The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.

Take a moment.

Finding yourself in a comfortable
position seating, close to the

earth on the chair, on the ground.

Wherever you find yourself,
making it comfortable for you in

the truest most authentic way.

I invite you to start to recognize
what is your true authenticity

breathing in.

And authentically breathing out,

finding the rhythms of your body,

coming into concert with the thoughts
and connecting to the true emotions

of what you feel are truly authentic.

Noticing judgment and
simply letting it fall,

continuing to look within and
recognizing gentle characteristics

of what it means to be authentic
in your expression, breathing in.

And breathing out,

taking a moment now to collect
all that is yours authentically,

truly and opening your eyes gently.

, Hi, it's Ryan.

Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I

invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.

We cover a variety of topics from
overcoming addiction and severe

depression to finding wholeness and
spiritual emergence today's podcast.

You're going to hear from one of my
guests, Roxy, who expresses herself and

shares her relationship to psychedelic.

And the nuances in the truest
authentic way she shares roxy.

How are you feeling coming in today?

I'm feeling very well.

We do such a good job with our
integration therapy and we've touched

upon so many different subject matters,
but I have to ask what led you to

the wonderful world of psychedelic.

I had a friend that started
doing this sort of work.

And at first her experiences,
sort of turned me off of the idea.

And then over time I saw her
getting better and better.

And so I asked if there were
sources, I could read more about it.

, to just kind of learn what
I'd be getting myself into.

What I read convinced me and here I am I
wanna ask you, you said it turned you off

originally and then there was sources.

So there must have been something that
reassured you, which is beautiful, cuz

there was some prudent research in you.

And I know that about you.

The research is a little,
a bit of who you are.

You.

It is.

Yes.

it, I guess I would say that her initial
experience was very dark and very tough.

And hearing just that one account of it,
it was like, well, why on earth would I

do that to myself And reading Michael
pollen's book and, a couple others.

I can't think of the names of them now.,
I just kind of dove in and read everything

I could and, and then was sort of like,
yeah, I guess I'm feeling kind of stuck.

And I, I feel like I have all of past
issues that just kind of keep repeating

and I don't know how to move past them.

so let's try this cuz I've tried.

Just normal talk therapy and
antidepressants and , not really gotten

anywhere so time for something new.

What's the emotion coming up when you're
reflecting on the journey you accepted.

I hear, tenderness.

Yeah, I guess it's just sort
of,, that, that place of being

stuck is never a good feeling.

and I can hear that.

And when you say that, have you
released things or have you recognized

that this isn't a one hit pill?

Is it that feeling of stuckness?

Definitely unlocks, but it it's work?

Yeah, because I think it, you can move
past some things and then something

else will kind of pop up and then
you have to work through that stuff.

It's definitely not a one hit wonder,
which that, I guess I would say that is

the biggest difference from what I read
about in like Michael Paul stuff, where

it's like, oh yeah, just do like two or
three sessions and you're good to go.

You're all healed.

it's probably the biggest
fabrication I've ever read.

It's almost a little bit, I
think unnerving because once

people get into this work, we
recognize what, what are we in?

Like, what are we integrating
plethoras of things?

No.

Oh, so much., and I, I don't know
if maybe people with specific other

issues would maybe benefit from like
two or three sessions and then be fine.

But, that's not really
how it's working for me.

So.

And so you found yourself at the precipice
of doing psychedelics and you and I

started to do some integration work.

And what was your
initial experiences like?

The first session that I did with a guide,
, was a very dark and depressing session.

But even though that was the case, I
still felt a lot better afterward.,

so it felt like I released some of
that darkness and, really started

to take better care of myself again.

I was going for walks
getting out in nature.

And that was something I
had been struggling with.

And then too, I had gotten divorced
recently and was kind of struggling

to get back out into dating, was
kind of feeling a little scared

because it had been a while.

And, especially because in particular
I I'm into kink and, interested in

polyamory and those things are brand new.

And so.

I was feeling a little, I don't know.

I can't think of the word.

Just, wanting to be cautious,
I guess, about branching out.

Well, yeah, prudent and very cautious
because all of these subject matters.

Take a lot of courage.

Thank you.

Yes.

And so that dark session Roxy, was
it, Enlightening or was it giving you

perspective with all these subject matters
and that intention, how did it play out in

what was the medicine you were using too?

I think it was perspective on
why I was so scared of men.

And this was psilocybin, I guess.

I kind actually, my first medicine
session was with MDM a but, I kind

of forgot about that one actually.

Roxy, you and I have been working together
for some time, and I know through our

work integrating these experiences,
I recall you starting with MDM a.

And exploring certain subject matters.

And that was kind of the entry
point of what you came in with?

Yes.

, the MDMA was definitely like a
more, you know, loving session.

Everything feels so lovely and happy.,
but I, I was processing a lot of,,

like trauma with my mom, which.

I think through that session, I
realized, my mom is who she is.

She had probably did the best she
could when I was a kid and it wasn't

enough for me and that's okay.

, but also to realize that she's not
going to change at this point in life.

So.

I, I did also start to feel like I wanted
to have a better relationship with my mom.

But I, I think that's just not
gonna happen based on who she is

and no amount of psychedelic work
is going to change the other person.

And I really appreciate
what you're saying is.

In a way, it's you coming to
terms with another individual?

Be it our mothers or our best friends,
our ex-partners we're benefiting

from the work, but it doesn't
mean the other person's gonna come

into some aha moment or change.

Right.

And you know, I, I did initiate a
conversation with her after that

session, , about her divorce from my dad.

because, it, that happened
when I was seven and I didn't

really understand at that time.

, she did give me the full story,
which I won't tell here, cuz

it's not my story to tell.

But I totally get it now.

, but now that I know it seems a
little bit like she's trying to rely

on me for therapy, which I can't.

That's not my role.

And that led you to keep going?

It did.

Yeah, because I, I guess after that
session, I was sort of like, well, okay.

That was a good entry point, but
that's not all there is here.

And so what are you integrating now?

Because, , you're doing so much.

You're talking about family of
origin concerns, self worth, , sexual

orientation, sexual expression.

Where is the, focus today?

And what's been percolating
reintroducing play into my life.

I have a very serious kind of job and
I can get so focused on that end of the

spectrum that I sort of forget that I'm
also a human in this kind of crazy world.

That's also kind of cool.

I guess now, , when I go for walks and
I'm like getting my nature time, I'm also

like stopping to just watch the turtles.

And, I don't know, the watch,
the swans and stuff in the pond.

Was it, exacerbated through a
psychedelic experience, that kind

of told you, Hey, stop and smell
the flowers and see the animals.

Yes, I, well, I had I had a session
about a year ago where the play first

started to come up and I don't feel like
I integrated that session super well.

I was still pretty depressed and not
really able to climb out of that.

So, as things go, when
you don't integrate.

It comes back around this is huge.

It's a great point.

And so you're self disclosing that
the experience was profound for you.

However, maybe based off of, was it too,
too quickly, going back to reality, not

giving enough time to like incubate.

What, in retrospect, are you noticing that
was hard about the integration process?

I was really hot and I just remember
like that it was too hot to be outside.

And so as much as I wanted to be
outside, I felt like I couldn't.

And so there was that
like stuck feeling again.

it just felt like a cruel, cruel joke.

It was just unable to find my way
out of being stuck in my house.

And then a year later, you were able to
do another session and play came back,

or how did that, , present itself or?

, my most recent session, Felt like chaos.

There was just a lot of nonsense
that made absolutely no sense.

And as I came out of it, I
said, what the fuck was that?

and I just started laughing and it
was sort of like a reminder that

like, I don't have to take everything
so seriously, but also it felt

sort of like I was kicking a bunch.

Random shit out of my brain, cuz I
get in these like thought patterns

and what ifs and so it felt like I
was kicking a lot of that shit out.

So I could like, did you see it as a
purging in the sense there was a purging

of kick, as you say, kicking it out.

Yep.

It was a purging.

And today, are you feeling
clearer around those thoughts

or recognizing those pattern?

Yes.

I also feel like my brain hasn't
felt as chaotic since , I'm hopeful.

It stays that way.

but we'll see.

Was this also a psilocybin
experience or was what, what

was the medicine used for that?

It was psilocybin again.

Yeah.

I've only done MDM a once.

and that's just, with having been
feeling so depressed, I don't

MDM a, I had like three days to a
week of feeling like really tender

and wanting to seclude myself.

So I haven't felt like that's the
best medicine for me right now.

Good for you to have that insight.

What needs to happen for you
to feel safe in experiences?

What have you recognized in the
experiences that provide you the most

opportunity for healing or reflection?

It's really just having the
safe space with my guide.

I have a good relationship
with them and,, I know that I

can trust them in that space.

And the trust being so important.

Do you trust yourself then to be able
to go up against any subject matters

that could come up even if you're
not necessarily anticipating them?

I will say with the last session, I did
have a, a part where something was coming

up that I got really distressed about.

That I, which was partially because like
that thing is actually not true for me.

So I was like pushing it away, but I guess
I wish in that space, it's so hard though.

I wish I could have, asked my
guide for help in that space,

but sometimes I don't know if I'm
talking out loud or just in my head.

Mm-hmm do you find it, when you said.

That you recognized it wasn't
a part of who you were and it

was okay to push against it.

Are you sitting today with a curiosity
of what that was in your session for?

No, I think I'm pretty
clear on what that was.

So the, the issue at hand was
that I was feeling it coming up,

that I'm trans, which I'm not.

but I've had a weird relationship
with gender., my mom had wished

I was born a boy and so kind
of treated me that way as a kid.

so in that space, , I was kind of like,
I tried to, play into it, like, okay, what

if I am trans, what would be the big deal?

I don't have to change anything,
but like in that space, it was like,

no, you have to like, you're a man.

Now you have to cut your
hair and get surgery.

And I was just like,
no, I don't want that.

That all , so I guess it's like
a confidence booster that that's,

that I know who I am better
than I maybe thought I did.

Yeah.

That true authenticity.

And even if it comes in a session
with so much paradox or telling us,

and I think it's a valuable public
service announcement for you to

say, oh yeah, I know what I'm not.

Yes.

Yep.

Like we don't have to sign up for
everything that the medicine gives us.

And, oh, this is the, you know, the
divine source telling me this is my

transformation that I need to have.

And I think that maybe also came
up because, through medicine work,

I did come out as bisexual and I
don't feel like it was the medicine

telling me, Hey, you're bisexual.

I think it was.

Me finally processing some of
the religious trauma, some of

the parent trauma around like
how they spoke about gay people.

That sort of allowed me finally to say
the words, cuz I think it was something

I had always kind of known, but just
not had the words for, and as you say

this right now, what's the emotion
percolating within you, as you say it.

So confide.

, it there's a little bit of sadness
that I didn't, that I wasn't

able to say it sooner in life.

And today, as you say it, do
you feel it aligned with you?

Do you think it in alignment?

I do.

although I still haven't
started dating, other women.

And so there is still that piece
of like, The somewhat feels not

true, even though I know it is.

And what will it look like for
you to get confirmation, another

psychedelic experience, getting more
comfortable in this realm, this plane?

What, what feels the entry point for you?

I'm

not certain.

I, I think it's going to really.

Dating women and seeing what
those relationships are.

Mm-hmm do you find yourself , on
the precipice of needing

more information around that?

Or is it just a little
bit of immersion therapy?

I think it's going to be
that I need the immersion.

Sure.

And what have.

Gain.

How have you become so confident in
your knowing because the work that

you and I have done, I've definitely
recognized the playful nature of

who you are, the responsibility.

And how do you find
certainty in all of this?

That's a big question.

Is there certainty in any of it?

No, not really.

I, you know, confidence, isn't
certainty, say more about that.

Differentiate that
confidence versus certainty.

I love it.

Well, I can be confident about my
knowledge in something, but actually

be wrong about it., lots of people are
wrong about things they're confident in.

Right.

And so this gives us the permission
to try it on in a safe environment,

express ourselves, to know we don't
have to take everything for face value.

Yeah.

Well,

and I mean, even, , I'm
definitely confident I'm bisexual.

Just the.

Degree to which that will be
expressed in relationship is where

I'm uncertain, which is beautiful.

I encouraging you to
make it your own, right?

Your own expression of this sexuality
and identification of who, who you are,

what do you need to feel, confident
or comfortable let's use that.

What, what will benefit
you in your comfort?

As you gain as you continue
to express yourself.

I think I'm going to have to
do things uncomfortable because

if I wait , if I wait until I'm
comfortable, it will never happen.

Right.

And isn't that funny?

How it's similar to the overlay
of a psychedelic experience.

If anyone thinks that they're gonna
be super easy and fine peace and

comfort in it, what's gonna happen.

Oh, they're yeah.

They're gonna figure out that's not true.

. And so that leads me to ask you, how do
you know when it's time to do another

session or dive into another journey?

It tends to be, if I'm starting to
feel stuck again in some way, or if

I'm having looping thoughts again,
about something in particular.

It's also, I'm

trying to think if there's like
a, a feeling in my body, I get,

Yeah, it's just kind of
like the stuck feeling.

There's a knowing though that stuckness is
explained and you you've seen it before.

You've felt it before.

And that's what led you to the journeys.

True.

yep.

And integrating today, what's the
juiciest place you're at right now?

What what's working for you
in this expression of fun?

What, what's one of the best ways you're
showcasing your expression of fun?

Meet up groups and, , you know, meeting
new people, trying to make new friends.

Just kind of exploring new hobbies, new
interests that I wouldn't have before.

And what's on the
psychedelic horizon for you?

Anything that you're curious about?

I know often, , people do find their
comforts in their wheelhouse of medicines.

Is there anything, would you go
back to MDM a or do you think

that's served its purpose?

I don't feel super called to
MDM a like I do with psilocybin.

I wouldn't say I'll never do it again,
but, , that's not the direction.

I feel things are going at this time.

I is there anything that you feel
compelled to share that you want?

To voice in an homage to the psychedelics.

What have you gleamed
from the psychedelics?

What have you been surprised at
that psilocybin has offered you?

it's a really difficult
question, isn't it?

Yeah.

I, you know, I guess overall the
whole experience has been a surprise.

I, prior to these medicine sessions
had never done any, drugs at all.

, , alcohol, but that's it.

So I had no idea what I was
getting myself into really.

But I think that's why I gravitated
towards this also because, , I

knew someone would be with me while
I had the medicine in my system.

, tell me about that.

Yeah, this sober sitter, you've
kind of evolved in that, noticing

and specifically because of your.

Relationship to trust and safety.

You started with a female sitter and
transitioned and had an experience that,

was wonderful, but you were drawn to
doing something within a male sitter.

And what was that relationship like
for you to make that conscious choice?

,I think with the female
sitter, it helped.

Sort of with the mommy issues it was
sort of like, you know, that pathway.

And then I, you know, I think I
had some things to work through

in regards to men in my life.

And so having a male sitter has it,
it's helped to have a man in my life

that I do feel like I can trust so much.

It can kind of get me out of.

Men suck . Yeah.

Right.

And that's a super
important aspect though.

Roxy to bring up is the sitter
does have a huge influence on

security, safety, and potential,
not playing out in a projection way.

But what I hear you saying
as a, as a secure attachment?

Yes.

Yeah.

And then too, I mean, they each had
their own style of how they work with the

medicine and I, I just sort of preferred.

The nail perspective better.

That's fair.

That's fair.

It's really great to see you today.

Thank you.

Good to see you.

What are you doing to find yourself,
being gentle with yourself?

I love ending conversations as
you know, in therapy with how are

you being gentle with yourself?

Well, I have been prioritizing my
morning, walks over, logging into

work, and that has been very helpful.

Work is not the end all be all of my life.

And I need to take care of myself first.