Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Exploring how humans connect and get stuff done together, with Dan Hammond and Pia Lee from Squadify.
We need groups of humans to help navigate the world of opportunities and challenges, but we don't always work together effectively. This podcast tackles questions such as "What makes a rockstar team?" "How can we work from anywhere?" "What part does connection play in today's world?"
You'll also hear the thoughts and views of those who are running and leading teams across the world.
[00:00:00] Dan: Hello, it's Dan here and welcome to an unusual episode that we recorded on a trip in New York because I had a big birthday recently and Pierre came up with the idea that we should talk about it on the show and really touch on some of the questions that Bob around when someone hits 60.
[00:00:19] Dan: And this happens in teams all the time, but it meant that we wanted to explore a little bit more about legacy discrimination. Life chapters and all these things that humans in teams, if we're very lucky, get to ponder when we reach a ripe old age. So let me see if I can make it through the episode.
[00:00:43] Pia: Hello and welcome
[00:00:44] Dan: back to We Not Meet the podcast. We explore how humans connect to get stuff done together. I'm Dan Hammond.
[00:00:50] Pia: And I'm Pia.
[00:00:52] Dan: I'm also 60.
[00:00:54] Pia: Oh my God. So this is a special episode. It's a come cleaner
episode.
[00:00:59] Dan: It's, I've been hiding my youth or age behind it.
[00:01:03] Pia: Fifties. In the mid fifties
[00:01:05] Dan: for a long time.
[00:01:06] Dan: I claim the mid fifties of nine, nine years of my mid fifties. And they ended yesterday.
[00:01:11] Pia: And we are also here Celebrating in New York.
[00:01:15] Dan: Yes.
[00:01:15] Pia: Sitting side by side, listener. I can touch his arm.
[00:01:19] Dan: Amazing. We
[00:01:20] Pia: are actually together. And we felt this was actually quite an important, a slightly different.
[00:01:26] Pia: Podcast to have between us because it is this very special date. Yes.
[00:01:30] Pia: 60 years ago, the life of Dan Hammond began.
[00:01:34] Dan: It did
[00:01:34] Pia: and was brought into the world and probably is a good time to. Reflect on a few things.
[00:01:40] Dan: Yes, and I think this is I think it, it applies to, how humans can connect to get stuff done together.
[00:01:46] Dan: I think it's relevant because thinking about age is a human thing and age plays a role in the workplace and how people react to you, how you react to people, what you do. So yeah, I think it's a really good opportunity to have a little reflection that I hope people will find. Interesting.
[00:02:03] Pia: So let's start with the actual pure number 6 0 6 0 oh. And did you ever imagine yourself getting to that? And what did you think it would be like and what is it like, who do you see yourself now?
[00:02:17] Dan: Yeah, I that I was I had a little think about that this morning and I don't think I ever thought about it, what I'd be doing on my 60th birthday.
[00:02:26] Dan: My 50th was a sort of, it's de different from a 50th. I feel like the 70 is waiting for you. That's quite a, that's a different landmark, I think. But I feel like it's been a very. I think it's an exciting time, actually. I feel like life 6.0 as my wife and I sometimes call it, it beckons and is really exciting.
[00:02:47] Dan: I think you've still got, I'm lucky. I've still got my fitness, my health. I've amazing grownup children. Seeing their adventure is incredible and I think I have spent my fifties really. I become more comfortable in my own skin. I've started to do a few things that have really aligned to my purpose.
[00:03:06] Dan: I've picked up music again. Yeah, and I think that is, I've been lucky to be able to do that. I'm very fortunate. But I feel like I'm starting to work out who I am now.
[00:03:16] Pia: I know that's a crazy thing and I think we're in these, we're in between as you and I have often talked about this, so how we were brought up and our parents' generation is substantially different to who we need to become to parent our children.
[00:03:32] Pia: Yes. What they expect of us.
[00:03:34] Dan: Absolutely.
[00:03:34] Pia: So there are real. Biases about being 60 and you can be a bit old fuddy duddy and dad jokes and this, that and the other. And at the same time, you don't wanna be having a midlife crisis and trying to be like, no, I
[00:03:44] Dan: think that's
[00:03:45] Pia: right. A 40-year-old.
[00:03:46] Dan: I would just for the tape make very clear, there's nothing wrong with dad jokes.
[00:03:50] Dan: They're excellent. But yeah, I think there is a lot of prejudice out there and I've been thinking about that. And I, where I land on that is yes, people are prejudice. I, if I'm honest, when I see myself on Zoom calls, I think, we're running a tech startup.
[00:04:04] Dan: We are getting, it's an AI SaaS platform. We are right on the edge of technology. But I look at myself on Zoom calls, who's that old guy? But and I've, and obviously I don't want to be discriminated against, but I also think that we, two things. One is that age discrimination shouldn't have happen to anyone.
[00:04:23] Dan: And I think we shouldn't be equally, shouldn't be assumed that we have inequalities because we're a certain age. So if I think about older people, you've, oh, they've got really good experience. So they'll be useful. Not necessarily
[00:04:34] Pia: equally.
[00:04:35] Dan: They're old, so they don't know anything about, they're slow or they don't keep up.
[00:04:40] Dan: Not necessarily. And I think that leads to a duty for me to really maintain my curiosity and keep moving forward, learn new things, and see AI come and say I'm gonna endorse that. I must admit, I did see stories appear on Instagram and I literally decided not to learn anything about them.
[00:04:57] Pia: Okay. Which they still confuse me, really serious things are really good. Equally, if you look at young people, they are discriminated against as well. People talk about. Gen Zs and they they laugh at them for wanting a sense of purpose and to be able to contribute. I think that's really harsh, but equally, don't assume that they're up on technology, that they're fast, that they can move quickly and get things done.
[00:05:19] Dan: That's not the case either. So I think. Across the spectrum. We need to be careful with that. But I, what I emerge with is a responsibility to say, I can't expect special treatment because I've reached this sort of age where I might have experienced, I've got to demonstrate it.
[00:05:34] Pia: And that is the thinking of all that is the thinking of our generation. That there was something to a respect that was earned by tenure. Yeah.
[00:05:42] Pia: And the whole respecting your elders. But, and I think that if you hold in that position you're not gonna win. You're not gonna win a load of mates.
[00:05:50] Dan: No.
[00:05:50] Pia: And you're not gonna be able to influence people, nor are you gonna be able to properly communicate. But there is a part where, and I think this is where the vulnerability comes in, and I think both you and I have gone through this phase. It's the relevancy. Yes. And people may think, right?
[00:06:04] Pia: We're running a startup. We put it all on the line. We've got a really big purpose. Yeah. We're really fueling high passion behind something that we believe. But it's still, in the 3:00 AM moments you question your relevancy
[00:06:18] Dan: Totally.
[00:06:19] Pia: Because things are changing so fast around you.
[00:06:22] Pia: How do you. How do you combat that? How do you bring relevance without justification? Yeah, no, it's I, this, it's a great question and I do we always doubt ourselves in the middle of the night. We sleep in a nest of our own fears and that nest gets quite, quite large. Yeah,
[00:06:39] Pia: it does.
[00:06:39] Pia: It does.
[00:06:40] Dan: But but I think, and I think some things do, I do genuinely find them now in the workplace. Sometimes I can be confronted by them some of the way in which VCs work way, the way capital works, the way that all those things work, they seem to be accepted, but I don't think they're optimized.
[00:06:57] Dan: I think they're poor. So I feel I'm sufficient. I think I sometimes you might need a little bit of old, what would you call it? Being a little bit obstinate to say, that's something I'm not, I think that's being done wrong and I'm gonna stand against it. So I think trying to maintain relevance is about really locking into purpose.
[00:07:16] Dan: Have just being confident that what you're trying to do is good for the world and just you've gotta listen to people along the way. You've just got to really hold onto that and make sure that is a relevant purpose, that you're doing something of value. And I and yeah, you get knocked and you doubt that all the way.
[00:07:32] Dan: But you just check in with yourself and go back to it. I think that's easier said than done. I think
[00:07:36] Pia: it's but entitlement doesn't go down very well in terms of being able to influence people. No. So that's what I think that, that curiosity does is it brings in. A healthy level of humility and the ability to be able to laugh at yourself.
[00:07:53] Dan: Yes.
[00:07:53] Pia: Because none of us end up knowing everything. We, that's just not we don't become the experts of our own lives. The way that lives happen is that they throw things in the way that we then realized, we're quite humbled by that. And so yeah we do need to, we do need to have an open mind.
[00:08:10] Dan: Yes,
[00:08:11] Pia: absolutely. But then again, I think a little bit like fashions, flares and fashion, they come round in fairly regular patterns. Yeah. So you see similar things in the way that humans behave. It's true patterns. So yeah, there is value in that wisdom. But again, you don't wanna sound a bit like back in the old days completely, because it may not be relevant to the context Yeah.
[00:08:32] Pia: Of today's environment.
[00:08:33] Dan: I think it's a really good thought. When I read a book a while ago caught by Mike Stroud he was a adopter and he was really interested in the evolution. He says that evolution, this is very, we not me, evolutionary is a group thing. Because if you think about the evolution, why would someone, why would we, there's no advantage in living beyond your time to breed.
[00:08:51] Dan: Actually, yeah. Do you what I mean? Yeah. If you take as an individual thing, i've optimized my genes have passed on. Gone.
[00:08:57] Pia: Yeah.
[00:08:57] Dan: What he said was actually no elders back in the day in Neolithic period were vital because they remembered floods from 30, 60 years ago. And I often think about that when you're a bit older.
[00:09:10] Dan: There are some things that are. Neolithic floods there. I think you can, we can help the next generations with things that we've seen before. Those patterns that you talked about. The things that just are immortal in human nature. We can really support people. We're also gotta be aware that we don't live in the neolithic age.
[00:09:29] Dan: There's so much that's new. These aren't floods. These are new things that we need to learn afresh. So it almost being able to recognize those two. Things, can I bring wisdom to this? And is it genuine? But without that entitlement of you better listen to me because I'm old or older. Versus actually I've got curiosity about this new thing.
[00:09:48] Dan: I, yeah I, you often think about the neolithic floods. That's exciting. Isn't, who wouldn't want to be visiting New York with someone who's thinking about that?
[00:09:55] Pia: I think that's fascinating. That's great. Moving on. There's a big part. I think too is that of course, once you get into to, if you just make an assumption that you're going to live to 90, a hundred
[00:10:07] Dan: Yeah.
[00:10:07] Pia: You've definitely tipped into the second half. Yes. And and if we're a football match we've got a, we've got a smaller amount time.
[00:10:14] Dan: The orange segments are consumed and off the pitch. Yeah.
[00:10:19] Pia: And that's quite an interesting one because that then it's again, traditional logic would be.
[00:10:25] Pia: You get old you maybe potentially get more. Infirm. Yeah. Your life becomes smaller. I've always wanted to really challenge that because then how do you have a purpose that lives right up until the moment you take your final
[00:10:41] Dan: break? Yeah. No, great.
[00:10:41] Pia: And a big part of that Yeah.
[00:10:43] Pia: I think is what's the legacy you want to leave behind?
[00:10:45] Dan: Yeah.
[00:10:46] Pia: So that you are actually looking ahead to the point actually, when you're not here.
[00:10:50] Dan: Yes.
[00:10:51] Pia: But actually thinking about what do you need to contribute? Yeah. In the next
[00:10:54] Dan: No, that
[00:10:54] Pia: great. 20, 30 years. And what, so as you've reached this
[00:10:59] Dan: rifle,
[00:10:59] Pia: you're gonna,
[00:11:00] Dan: you're gonna send me a stinger of a question
[00:11:03] Pia: like that.
[00:11:03] Pia: Thank you. So what is the legacy that you wanna leave behind? Yeah.
[00:11:07] Dan: Oh yeah. When I think about that, I first think about my family and I think about my girls and. I think there's a, that's an immediate legacy. And I see in them just these amazing humans who will go into this next, these next years and just do us proud.
[00:11:26] Dan: And I think that's, when I think about legacy, that's the first thing I think of what I've left there. And. I think they, by the way, are facing if I think about intergenerational challenges, I think the generation before us had things quite well worked out for them. After, in the west and certainly in the uk after the second World War, we straddled this sort of, there's lots of work to actually, oh, actually it's getting a bit tough to have work.
[00:11:49] Dan: They're in a totally different spot. But I think they will, there, that's my, that's the primary legacy. That I think of. But I think beyond that, I would really love to, I think that a lot of, we've taken some wrong turns. We talked about this on this podcast. I think capitalism is a, is potentially a really good thing, but it's gone down some weird roads and I would love to do something to have an impact on that, potentially the path of that.
[00:12:17] Dan: But certainly look for ways in communities as I, when I do retire or whatever. As they call it to be able to have an impact. I think in a community level, I think there are a lot of people who've been left behind and I'd love to do something, dunno what yet, but to leave that legacy.
[00:12:34] Dan: I think also that you do hear people, when you read obituaries they leave their spirit behind. There's something that rattles down the ages to the people who knew them through their children, and I want to at least be able to do that, maintain that spirit that is worth passing on. Yeah.
[00:12:51] Dan: That they, they can, you can, the people you meet to have a positive impact on them. Yeah. I dunno whether that's a good answer, but I think there are different ways. But what I would say is I'm really determined looking at those next 20 years plus I hope who knows? Could be struck down. Could be, I was gonna say, I could be hit by a car tomorrow.
[00:13:08] Dan: My experience crossing Road New York makes that pretty likely. Retire, go into this next phase. Let's not even call it retirement, but I see people retiring poorly. And they lose that sense of purpose. And yeah, I'd like to make sure I maintain that through to the end.
[00:13:23] Pia: And I, it's an interesting one, and I think it's my reflections and I'm a couple of years, nearly a couple of years ahead of you, is that this is really understanding that the simplicity of life is all about love and things that you love, people that you love.
[00:13:37] Dan: Yeah. Causes that you passionate, that you love, and I think yes the total. Epitome of that is through the relationship you have with your children. So they're filled up
[00:13:48] Dan: Yeah.
[00:13:48] Pia: To the best capacity possible with love. Yeah. And with that confidence to go forth and do their thing. I think
[00:13:54] Dan: that's right.
[00:13:55] Pia: And have the freedom to give to, to be able to do that. But I think too, like you, I feel that humans are just extraordinary and always have been when they connect.
[00:14:09] Dan: Yeah.
[00:14:09] Pia: And. There's something around, that's it. If we lose that capacity to see that connection, see that love with each other,
[00:14:19] Dan: yeah.
[00:14:19] Pia: We miss out at an opportunity to completely to do something pretty amazing.
[00:14:23] Pia: We're not born to be singular. No. And so I think that whilst the world tries to individualize us actually there's something about our connection that is really.
[00:14:33] Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And keeping that warmth, I think that point about love is really important. One of girls said, I think Juliet and I have obviously done something right along the way because one of them said, we love in this family.
[00:14:44] Dan: And I thought, that's such a great phrase, yeah. And and it's really important, but that go, that goes out to everyone. It's not a limited thing it's to everyone. I think that yeah, it's obviously getting a bit mushy. Age 60. But but that point about actually yes, let's connect with each other is a thing that, and I really look loads more of that in these.
[00:15:04] Pia: So I think we're pretty optimistic.
[00:15:06] Dan: I think so. Yeah. I think so. And I do think the other thing I've learned in the last few years is I've spent a lot of time getting, I'm quite analytical and I'd love to pay attention to the news, and I've realized it's just not been very good for me.
[00:15:19] Dan: Actually that your knowledge is power. That knowledge can be, can ruin your power. So I'm being very careful about consuming the news because I've realized, the Stephen Covey thing, I'm concerned about it, but it's outside my area of influence or I've realized all the things in there that's called stress.
[00:15:37] Dan: And so I've really I've been, I'm very careful about how I consume the news now because it's just a news and therefore but conversely. Divert that energy into those around me. Right next to me in the family, in the community who, and people like me randomly. How can I impact them?
[00:15:55] Dan: And I think that, that's been, that's something I can control or at least influence. And it's made made a lot of difference.
[00:16:02] Pia: And that actually. Builds you as a source rather than your state of mind and your being, being fed externally. Totally. And that's something I think,
[00:16:12] Dan: yeah,
[00:16:12] Pia: it's true.
[00:16:13] Pia: It's from within.
[00:16:14] Dan: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:15] Pia: Within all of this. Yeah. And it sounds slightly, hippie, hippie, trippy. But I think actually it's like we, if we just take accountability and responsibility for what we can be and how we communicate and how and how we are is really important. 'cause then that's.
[00:16:32] Pia: That's actually a joy that we end up sharing with other people. Yeah. And that has a really positive impact.
[00:16:36] Dan: Yes, indeed.
[00:16:38] Pia: So tell me, what are you gonna do to celebrate your I believe you've got somebody who's gonna look after you.
[00:16:44] Dan: I I, my wish was that off my 60th I would be in, in New York, the gorgeous blonde.
[00:16:48] Dan: I was thinking obviously about the lovely Mrs. Hammer, but I've ended up with you. Wow.
[00:16:51] Pia: Yeah.
[00:16:52] Dan: So anyway. Oh, but you have looked after me seconds. Wonderfully. Wonderfully. And and I believe you have booked for me a. Trip to a jazz club tonight. Yeah. Obviously we're going, gonna a startup event in New York.
[00:17:04] Dan: Of course. Course, yeah. Slip that in. But but then we'll be off to a jazz club tonight. Yeah. And we've had lots of great work. Thank you and thank you for being with me on the journey. This,
[00:17:12] Pia: it has to
[00:17:13] Dan: this
[00:17:13] Pia: point. Such a pleasure.
[00:17:15] Dan: It's wonderful to talk to you. Thank you for all the questions.
[00:17:16] Dan: I'm sorry I didn't ask you any. I'm on,
[00:17:18] Pia: don't worry. I'll wait
[00:17:18] Dan: until
[00:17:19] Pia: we 6%.
[00:17:19] Dan: Yeah. We'll get you, we'll get you sorted. But that is it for this episode. I hope you've enjoyed that slightly different episode. For this time, we don't be as supported by Spotify. Spotify helps any team to build engagement and drive performance.
[00:17:32] Dan: You can find show notes where you are listening and@spotify.net if you've enjoyed the show. Please share the love and recommend it to your friends. We Not Me, is now produced by Rob Lawrence. Thank you so much for listening. It's goodbye from me and it's goodbye from me.