DIVE vs POKE, Supports are BROKEN, and BUFF Ironfist ft Samito & Mikesaboveu

Season 7 Launch PODCAST! With special guests Samito & Mikesaboveu

What is Clear Comms Podcast?

A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!

Coach Mills (00:00.781)
What's up guys and welcome to a brand new clear comps episode now season 7 is here and we're super hyped about it and we have two special guests first Samito welcome back. Thank you so much for coming back, bro. It's gonna be

Samito (00:12.886)
Yeah, dude, listen, it's a good time. It's always a good time with these guys, man. We, uh, we went into it a little bit last time and I'm just going to say right now, there's going to be, it's always a good time in the comment section when I get going. we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll leave it at that. We're going to bring it today.

Coach Mills (00:23.609)
Definitely and also returning guest Mikey Mike's above you. What's up? What's up rank one basically rank one everything at this point? This like a die on spider-man. He's coming to take your spots. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, of course, of course and And the first I'm gonna kick it off real quick with Mikey because I know that you are enjoying the game You're playing the game a lot

Mike (00:24.536)
Haha.

Mike (00:30.116)
What's going? What's up?

Captain Coach (00:35.342)
Gambit, Torch, Spider-Man.

Mike (00:39.665)
yeah. Well, thanks for having me, dude. I appreciate this a lot. For real. Thank you.

Captain Coach (00:43.21)
Absolutely.

Coach Mills (00:53.347)
How do you feel about the new neutral changes? About 20 % across the board, ult charge nerfed. How does that feel from a game play point of view? You put in a lot of reps in the games. How does it feel? What do you think?

Mike (01:01.784)
Yeah Then I think is the best thing to ever happen to this game I was I will stand on that is the best thing to ever happen this game because now you're able to run like, you know, Jeff without

I mean I guess you can still say it's a throw pick but before when it was a game based on pure ults, Jeff was bad. But now that the neutral game is stronger, Jeff can actually be viable. A lot of characters that you wouldn't see viable before just because their ult wasn't really good are now able to be used. So I think that's really good for like the diversity of games. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:32.195)
Gotcha, gotcha.

Captain Coach (01:32.718)
Yeah, that's a really good point. didn't think about, Jeff's neutral is one of the strongest in the game, so he's naturally been picked up a lot. I think a lot of people probably put Jeff like S tier, right? Or S or A? Put him around there.

Mike (01:39.588)
Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:46.585)
mean, he's good, he's definitely good. Yeah, that makes sense. You're kind of like the characters that they kind of gate kept everything because their olds were too strong, right? And I...

Mike (01:54.038)
Yeah, exactly.

Captain Coach (01:54.518)
Yeah, kind of just slowed everything down to the point where it's I I thought I think the alt changes to is like a get out of jail free card that a lot of players don't have now. And one of the things I wanted to bring up was like, have you guys noticed the quality of your games change at all as far as like the players in the game? Maybe in like how people are are functioning.

Mike (01:57.177)
Mm.

Coach Mills (02:10.521)
What do you think, Sam? What do you think? I got some-

Samito (02:18.23)
There's been a lot more self reports in my... Now granted, like, I haven't been playing like, candidly, just full disclosure, like, I haven't played as much as you guys in previous seasons. Like, I booted it back up for this season because, like, for me, I was so sick of the gameplay loop. I loved the character designs and rivals, but man, like, it was the same thing and I felt like...

Captain Coach (02:22.659)
Yeah.

Samito (02:36.456)
Okay. If I go take this angle, like this is I should be to get value. then somebody's bailed out by a support ult and sorry, support players, but you know, it's true. It's like, you know, you're building C and D all every 40 seconds. It's like, man, like I only get one rep on an angle before I actually get to make a play. And then there's just an ult there. So like, there's a lot of times where I've seen these three supports. there's I went flanked him more. Like, and granted this isn't like low, low celestial, like started the season. Right. I've flanked for two or three games straight. And I think I got shot at two times on.

by people playing triple support. And I'm like seeing them sit there, I'm like, y'all are not gonna get your ult, I'm gonna sit here, I'm gonna have three squids just, or two or three squids just boom, boom, boom. And then they just die sitting on point. And I'm sitting there, I'm talking to my chat, I'm like, guys, like.

Coach Mills (03:07.127)
Hehehehehe

Coach Mills (03:14.276)
Ha ha.

Samito (03:20.244)
These people are so boosted. Like, I'm sorry, but like, but like it's good because like I, I agree. You got to captain coach. I know you guys know I've been saying they need to nerf build rate for so long. And I was called a super villain repeatedly. you don't want a superhero game to be superhero.

Mike (03:22.276)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (03:22.731)
You

Coach Mills (03:30.199)
Nah, you've been preaching this forever. Forever.

Coach Mills (03:36.685)
I think like since the beginning you've been saying this shit. Since beta you've been saying this shit.

Samito (03:39.027)
Yeah, well, cause the designs in this game are fantastic. They're unique, they're insane. And the more you nerf these ults, and like not just ults in general, like one, you can play make more with ults because if there's actual downtime, you can create a window of vulnerability to get value on any ult in the game, not just, it has to be Magneto ult. like...

Mike (03:41.635)
It's crazy.

Samito (04:00.534)
I think what's cool about Rivals is there's a lot of people who are newer to the shooter games and newer to this genre, which is great. But there's a lot of things that people haven't learned as well. it's creating that depth and continuing to expand on the ceiling. It's how Rivals can reach its peak. But to answer your question and to circle it all back, no, I think the players, think they're getting a little exposed a little bit to people who are just crouching on the odds.

Mike (04:21.225)
Yes

Coach Mills (04:21.527)
Hehehehehe

Captain Coach (04:22.402)
Yeah. All right. Speaking of ceiling, Mike, who do you I mean, do we do we think supports are the most exposed? I mean, you now have a lot more freedom because I feel like torches all probably one of the weaker ones when you compare them to DPS salts, too. So you're probably and then you want to talk about the the recharge change with the flames.

Mike (04:33.998)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (04:40.468)
Yeah, so I would say human torch The problem with human torch is that in in like in theory He should be good because he outputs a lot of damage a lot of that But the really great characters like phoenix, know spider-man is good this season I will say that spider-man I think is s-tier No matter what people say I think he's s-tier with all these characters being really good in the game spider like torches flyers

aren't really gonna ever be that good but the infinite melee tech is back it is back you know ever since they took it out it's kind of been a bad thing for torch players it is back but at the end of the day human torch is still kind of like a resource however much resources you get is however much you put out so yeah exactly exactly

Coach Mills (05:25.293)
Just requires a lot of pocketing you're saying like a lot of team you think that you think like a like a you know a Voltron Ultron strategy where they're pocketing Ultron could be good again you think so?

Mike (05:34.276)
Oh yeah, Torch Ultron, I've been keeping it on the low for a shot, like I haven't been telling people, but if it's in the game, uh... No, it's really good. And I also think Iron Man is really good too. I think he's a really secret pick, especially with Ultron. I think he's really good. Yeah, I agree.

Captain Coach (05:36.014)
Hmm.

Coach Mills (05:38.114)
Hey, if I get in your games next time just yell at me Mills get the fuck on Ultron, bro I'll be alright. Alright, let's go. Let's this game.

Captain Coach (05:38.626)
Hehehehehe

Samito (05:51.53)
He's fun too, he's really fun.

Coach Mills (05:54.201)
Yeah, I remember in beta there was like, I remember old Iron Man back then that was actually really good and then he was only good. Yeah, and then Gamma.

Samito (05:59.243)
Dude, Gamma was insane. Gamma was so good. I was just dumping people on the... Yo, real quick. Did they say what happened to like those maps that were in the map pool? Like, where are they? Like, what is going on? Like, what was that map called?

Mike (06:01.184)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (06:09.742)
Hmm.

Coach Mills (06:12.697)
Well, we got one. We got one back and then there's still a whole bunch that are missing. Right. Oh, have you have you have you? Yes. So they just put back in Shin Shibuya into the map pool. It's unchanged from my understanding, which means that it was just out for four months and then it's back completely the same map. And then I thought they were going to be working on that. And then.

Captain Coach (06:16.694)
well we got it the kind of got it back it's very laggy

Mike (06:19.604)
Yeah, dude it's bad.

Samito (06:20.69)
So is that what happened?

Captain Coach (06:32.075)
What a-

Missed opportunity not changing that map, I will say.

Mike (06:38.028)
I agree.

Coach Mills (06:39.989)
It's so fucking laggy. Like it's been slideshow like and it's not even just that map. It's kind of like every map right now. It's like randomly. Yeah, it's it it it it's it's bad and and I think that you know, sometimes games will have this optimization patch. They're like, okay for this this month we're skipping we're going to do optimization only and we're going to raise everyone's FPS by 40 and we're going to like we need something like that because like I'm not going to lie. I think the game is in a better state than it's been in.

Samito (06:46.624)
That's the whole game, dude. The game frickin' runs like Donkey Doo Doo.

Mike (06:46.702)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Coach Mills (07:09.145)
in many many months but not the optimization. It's fucking, it's dog shit in my opinion. It's super super bad. But to ask a question to you Simita, okay so 20 % approximately, it's a little bit different for supports. Supports get less passive regen compared to DPS and DPS get less for actually doing damage and stuff. Do you think that this is enough? Or do you think this needs to be how much more? What would you say?

Mike (07:13.848)
Yeah.

Samito (07:32.341)
No, no. So like, well, all right. Let me preface with this. I think what I've accepted about Rivals at this point is that it's a different...

type of game than what I consider to be peak. Like, I think it's designed for more of people at its floor. That's not to say it can't flourish at its ceiling. And I think there, when it comes to discourse about this, and this is where I will give the comments section for credit. So please hear me out before you guys start getting mad. This guy doesn't play a game. doesn't sell the game, but whatever. Okay. Just hear me out on this. Like, yeah, I know, I know, but

Coach Mills (08:02.745)
They're already pissed off. They're already... Okay.

Samito (08:06.024)
You know, there's nothing wrong with apples and oranges, right? I think rivals as a game is designed for gamers who don't play as much games. that like, if you look at particularly the supports and how accessible they are and how they drop an AOE heal bubble and mitigate any mistake and any angle that you can take, like that still is there. Like, I think that this game is more of an entry level game for gamers. And I think that is a big reason why it was successful. I really do.

The game that I love and I think is peak is that super in depth, every angle matters, every nuke fight. The Overwatch won, the 6v6 Overwatch, which I've been playing religiously in the past couple of months, I've just fallen back in love with the game, with everything that they've done and how... Hot take, I think the games learning from each other is best, great for both games, like the ult charge, like people, this is what I find so funny, I'm gonna grill the Rivals community a little bit.

Coach Mills (08:52.805)
yeah. For sure.

Mike (08:53.25)
Yeah, I agree.

Samito (08:57.852)
Rivals in its entirety was designed off of Overwatch one. It's an it's an Overwatch one spin-off in the best way it could be and it's so good It's so good. There's a reason why it's been successful if they can capture Even more neutral on top of that and the best way to do that is I think heroes like cloak and rocket and like the mindless sustained spam need to get brought down to be more active decisions to give value and

All the sustain that they buffed to try to keep up with that level of sustain throughout the first seven seasons should all get brought back. Like they need to take the game back towards its beta roots and in this direction of, 20 % NERF. The next step, NERF every ult duration. And that what that's going to do.

Mike (09:30.82)
I'm

Samito (09:46.045)
is it's gonna make one more character's ultimates be viable and valuable because there's gonna be meaningful downtime. If they can create meaningful downtime, I don't necessarily care how they do it for every role that could be net across the board. You're gonna see the characters that have struggled struggle less and the characters that have dominated not be as like,

You know, it's rock, paper, scissors. If I'm rock and you're paper, you know, you can just throw that. But some of the characters have been GUNNED for frickin', like, eight seasons, you know? Gene, right, is just insane. Like, even- even Mag.

Coach Mills (10:15.514)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking good.

Mike (10:16.44)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (10:18.39)
Well, I think the skill in this game, as far as all the sustain is concerned, is finding a way to eke out a kill with all the constant healing going on. like me personally, I think the healer role is now even more important than it used to be, and it's a lot more punishing too. So, you say it yourself as a casual game, I don't know if that's necessarily the best direction it should really go in, because...

Samito (10:46.824)
I agree. I agree with that. Like it's not about like what I want. You, you finished though. You finished though.

Mike (10:48.152)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (10:48.238)
you do agree, okay, so you're-

Coach Mills (10:49.315)
Yeah, cause...

Captain Coach (10:54.318)
No, I mean, that's all I needed to say. I think, for instance, like triple support now, I mean, I know that's been a very popular topic over the seasons. I mean, I think, you think it's worse? I think it's better in ranked because people, sure.

Samito (10:56.256)
Yeah.

Samito (11:01.993)
It's worse.

Samito (11:06.686)
Well, it's harder. Go ahead. I want to cut. don't want to cut you off.

Mike (11:10.286)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (11:11.553)
Yeah, you gotta play like harder supports at least, like more decisions at least.

Captain Coach (11:12.658)
I, what my point was with kinda like Mike was saying earlier was that because it's so much more punishing to play healer and it's so important to have, keep your team alive with that sustain that if you have two healers that just aren't cutting it and especially with how popular dive is right now, triple support is still gonna be the best thing for when you're losing and it's gonna help. I've lost a lot of games just cause the team's like, okay, let's run triple support and see how we do.

Mike (11:40.58)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (11:40.598)
I still think it's an issue, so I do agree with you with the sustain, but I'm trying to think of a better solution other than just adding downtime because this is, like Marvel Rivals to me is like the League of Legends of hero shooters, or like it's almost like a phone game. They want it to be like that dopamine, like constantly see the bars go up. like what, right, right. It's all about engagement. So like, do we think there's like a play style or something they could do that keeps that identity? Do we just nerf the healing?

Samito (11:40.63)
You

Samito (11:54.817)
Yeah. Yeah, it's about engagement.

Mike (12:08.356)
Like I think a lot of people, I've seen a lot of people say like if they're on triple support, they should nerf how much healing they do, like lower it. But the problem is if you're nerfing support.

In my opinion, think if you nerf support people are gonna quit the game because they just feel like they can't do enough again because you know It's catered to you know, more of the casual player base is what from what I seen so if they don't think they can do enough versus like a Black Panther or like a Spider-man because they got nerfed and you know, they just can't sit back relax hold right click They're gonna quit the game whether whether whether whether whether we like it or not They're gonna quit the game. So I feel like they need to

Coach Mills (12:43.957)
Hehehehehe

Are they really even playing the game though? Like, like, oh, are we, are we, are are we serious? Like, are we serious right now? Like, don't even think... I'm sorry, bro.

Mike (12:50.304)
I mean they're...

Captain Coach (12:52.718)
Mills you're supposed to be the voice of reason man what the

Samito (12:56.406)
Well, here's what you do. Here's what you do. And I think there's an element to what you're saying is right, but I think they need to lean into redesigning things. Let let me start with rocket right here. Okay. Rocket raccoon is the most brain dead, easy slop character I've ever seen. And honestly, like it's a disservice to rocket in the MCU as well, because the way that he plays like, no, it is, it is.

Mike (12:56.452)
Peace.

Mike (13:04.792)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (13:11.693)
Yeah

Coach Mills (13:22.297)
It's ironic, it's legit ironic.

Captain Coach (13:22.83)
That's good point. That's funny.

Mike (13:24.023)
Hahaha

Samito (13:24.374)
It is, it is. No, it is. Like, if you're a Rocky Raccoon fan, and I've talked about this forever, they need to lean his kit way more into what he had with Punisher and Bucky in Season 1 as like a damage amplifier. Like, his rez beacon is the most tilting bullshit mechanic. Can I cuss on this? I can cuss, I'm gonna cuss. It's the biggest fucking bullshit. It makes me so mad. I'm like, everyone's like, no, just play good, break it. I know, but it's like, I shouldn't, if I take a good angle and I get an entry in the neutral,

Mike (13:40.036)
you

Coach Mills (13:40.537)
Yeah, yeah, you can say whatever you want.

Captain Coach (13:41.486)
Samito (13:50.127)
And the reality of how the bans are going is like, there's a lot of Rocket being played because you'll ban Gene and then like everyone like I'm banning Cloak every fucking game. I don't give a shit. I don't care how good the character is. That heal bubble is so brain dead. Like it's so dumb. Every time Cloak is good, I've actually uninstalled the game. Like I mean that, like I just don't bother playing into it because I don't feel like I get rewarded for my like learning the game or like I don't get rewarded for making correct plays. They just get bailed out. I'm like, you know, I'm good. But you know, if Rocket, Rocket res beacon, for example, should get completely reworked into like some kind

Coach Mills (13:56.493)
Yeah,

Mike (13:56.749)
Me too, me too, me me too, Me too.

Captain Coach (13:57.55)
You

Samito (14:20.01)
damage or fire rate amplifier. Like if his team up worked, it didn't have to be as strong as what the team up was before, but that would be a really cool ability that suits like rocket MCU. gives him a more unique identity in the support role. It's like, okay, every 20 seconds I can drop this, you know, beacon down. What was it like a deployable? What was that deployable called for his team up?

Coach Mills (14:37.529)
Yeah, was it like deployable, I forgot what it was called, ammo overload or I forgot.

Captain Coach (14:38.274)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:38.446)
Yeah.

Samito (14:39.19)
Yeah. And maybe your team gets like 10%, 20 % fire rate, tune it how you need to, whatever. That would be so much healthier than what it is now. Obviously his right clicks have to get worked at too, but like, I really do think they actually need to go into these characters and make them more active value rather than passive value. So you don't get the support players to quit the game. Like Mike said, you know, he, and he's not wrong about that. Like I don't want support to be dead in the water. I played professional, I played support at a pro level in Overwatch and I played the most brain dead poster child of ruining

the game of all time in Brig, you know? So, like, you I had to do it. I was a flex DPS player at my prime and I'm playing Brig, you know, it's, it's...

Coach Mills (15:10.105)
Break.

Mike (15:10.852)
Mike (15:15.289)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (15:16.618)
I've, I had a fight one time where it was the spider islands map where you go up the ramp at the end and you've that big door with the hole in it and the ledge over it. And the cart was about halfway through coming up the checkpoint. I was on rocket. You want to talk about passive value. I had just used my res beacon. We lost the fight. I was, could have ran back to spawn, but I thought about it for a second. I'm like, we still get one more fight. If I just kill myself.

Samito (15:26.827)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (15:45.662)
on rocket even though i could have lived and got my ten percent more all charge i get it another res beacon back so i just dash straight down into the pit came back through that baby rain spawn a walk that it we ended up holding it it's it's it's insane i got i a look i could have stayed up for all charge but i i thought they get a reset of the recipe can might as well we already lost insane

Samito (15:58.047)
It's horrible design. It's... It's horrible design.

Mike (15:58.564)
That scares me.

Coach Mills (16:00.011)
And I know Coach Kuffee's probably gonna freak out, because he does argue, he's a pro coach, he does argue that Rocket can do damage, but I think it's like Rocket, and even to an extent Cloak we'll talk about in a second, these characters just don't really use their damage in that meaningful of ways. And we could definitely rebalance them, rework them.

So like that's actually a core part of the value. Like we could gut their support, their support or like dramatically make it worse and then give them power to actually shoot at things, play making the neutral.

Samito (16:36.734)
I wouldn't even say make it worse. think that makes the kit have more playmaking ability. Yeah, it's better for everybody, I think.

Coach Mills (16:39.917)
I mean, they get more, yeah. Maybe give them more dashes, like give them more decisions, make them like active.

Captain Coach (16:45.858)
What about, I got an idea, you guys can let me know if this is a idea, why don't supports get more ult charge for damage and less for healing? Would that fix it?

Coach Mills (16:55.437)
Well, proportionally they do now. Kind of. Well, more for damage. you're saying just specifically. I see what you're saying.

Mike (16:55.626)
I just feel like...

Captain Coach (17:01.11)
I mean, just whatever it is, tune it even more to where you really encourage to do it.

Mike (17:08.484)
Like I just feel like if that's encouraged, there's been times where if my rocket has to reload or my cloak has to reload and they're just spamming heals, I'll just die. So I feel like if damage is encouraged, if damage is encouraged, I feel like there's just too much damage in the game, so I just wouldn't even get healed. Like there's just too much damage in the game. Yeah.

Coach Mills (17:20.697)
That is deep yeti,

Samito (17:27.624)
Yeah. So can I ask you a question, Mike? Where do you feel like this damage is coming from? Because I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have all the perfect answers to this. I'd rather see the utility, like rather than just like the raw damage values, like there's still support. They should be support oriented, but like the way they support their team, like that fire rate beacon, stuff like that. Where do you see like, is there any way that you see sustain?

Mike (17:36.27)
Yeah.

Mike (17:41.956)
Mm.

Mike (17:45.444)
Hmm.

Samito (17:51.541)
being nerfed and what would have to accompany that to like again because my end goal here is I want the neutral to get blown wide open this game. All of these characters have insanely unique abilities that can do so much and the more the neutral opens up the more that these characters can all shine and individual playmaking how you decide to play your character can shine but like where does all that like what would you have to see be compensated for that to work?

Mike (17:59.457)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (18:08.996)
Hmm.

Mm.

Mike (18:15.748)
I have no idea, I'm gonna be honest. Yeah, like...

Samito (18:18.23)
Like, Jean, Hella, like where, like where, like what's most of the damage coming from? Like when people's health pools have to get lower as long as side, like actual damage values.

Mike (18:25.015)
I just-

Coach Mills (18:25.667)
Well, it's also kind of important to think that if a DPS can't so let's say a Jean takes a corner, right, just as a hypothetical. She can stand in that corner for way too fucking long because of how much sustain is in the game. You shoot her, it doesn't matter. She gets self-sustained, she gets self-healing, and she's getting pocketed, so like, reducing that and also increasing the playmaking of every role.

Samito (18:41.792)
Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (18:42.829)
Yeah.

Mike (18:43.054)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (18:49.582)
They

Coach Mills (18:50.551)
might make it so people can't hold these aggressive angles and you're not actually gonna take it. You're not gonna take as actually as much damage. Yeah. Yeah.

Samito (18:52.69)
You have to learn how to play the game. can't hold that in Overwatch. can't. actual chip damage matters. Chip damage matters. Like I've been playing 6v6 open queue. And it's so inf- People do not understand.

Mike (18:54.68)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (18:55.948)
Yeah...

Samito (19:03.572)
The value of not taking, I played a rivals game. my God. This pissed me off so much. This pissed me off. I'm in celestial. Okay. We're on, what is the, the, the empire state map called? What's that map called? I'm brain farting right now. Mid, yeah. Midtown. Is that what it's called? Yeah. It's midtown and Overwatch too. That's why I'm blanking out. Okay. But we're on first point. Okay. They have a Groot, a black widow, an iron man and like a Fox and like a Jeff. Okay. And I'm like, Hey guys, let's walk high, right high ground.

Mike (19:14.34)
Midtown.

Samito (19:32.439)
No, my entire team flames me and say, you should go punish or you should go all this. I'm like, guys, like we can wrap height for free and shoot down to them. And it's like, no, we just brute force main. I'm like, guys, like just take high ground please. And then they called me brain dead and boosted. I'm like, boys, like check my profile. Like, what are we talking about here? And so it's like, people have not learned in rivals, how to actually play a video game. And I don't mean that in a negative way.

Coach Mills (19:43.116)
Hehehehe

Mike (19:43.512)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (19:54.713)
It's the game design's fault. It's the game design...

Captain Coach (19:54.798)
It is

Samito (19:56.435)
It's the game bails everyone out. like, is my thing guys, where I'm talking about rivals as a game at its floor. It's intentionally designed to be this way. So like, obviously I want the game to go that other direction. Like iron fist was my favorite melee character I ever played. put them down after his rework and that was only for like a season and half. I got, was more fun than DPS Doomfist because I thought he was more fair of a character. Like with DPS Doom, you were one shotting people. Like that's corny. Like, I, I, listen, I abused that character, right? But that was corny. commit that, but like the depth that was in.

Mike (19:58.137)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (20:20.397)
Yeah

Mike (20:21.346)
Yeah.

Samito (20:26.328)
the and they were so close in season zero they were so close they reeled the old sin like a hot take heroes like Luna too like I actually prefer playing against that type of support because like and that's why her win rate was so low because she actually has to actively do everything outside of her flake right she has to heal she gets her cleave she gets all that but like most of it's like aim and direct value

Coach Mills (20:42.873)
It's a M, yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (20:43.8)
So as someone who's been in that situation then, I'm talking about a ranked environment and Mike, I'll ask you the same question here. Then what would your advice be to someone since you're known as a good player at the game to deal with people who just won't listen to the types of strategies you want to do and are more just saying just swap? What would your advice be? Do you kind of just fall in line? Because I run into the same problem and I crash out over it.

Mike (20:52.889)
Mm.

Coach Mills (21:04.089)
He's not gonna get you any good advice There's no there's no good advice from

Mike (21:06.904)
It's just...

Mike (21:14.402)
Yeah, it's just like it's so 50-50 it's because like it's it's so 50-50 because they might have they might listen to you and they might want to win the game or they might just they might just say like yo fuck you i'll just do what i'm doing and we're gonna lose like straight up we're just gonna lose Yeah, like you you can't do anything

Captain Coach (21:15.438)
Like what do you do?

Coach Mills (21:23.385)
I know I.

Captain Coach (21:29.954)
Sometimes I just give up like I just I lose my mind with people you can't you can't do anything I Use my zesty voice. That's what I do

Samito (21:33.92)
Let me tell you something.

You, you, you could bring these kids a fucking winning lottery ticket and these motherfuckers wouldn't cash it. There is nothing, nothing that you can do to get through to these people. You can, there's a saying for this guys. says, oldest time you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. And these kids are going to think they're right. They're going to think whatever. And there's nothing, you just go next. Like you focus, like you literally just go take an angle.

Mike (21:39.01)
Hahaha

Mike (21:42.692)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (21:51.534)
you

Mike (21:56.643)
Yeah.

Samito (22:04.212)
And like, this is the tricky part about, like, there's a big difference, and this is true in Rivals too, between ranked and the real game. Okay? Ranked is not the real game. It's, it's not the real game. Like, in an actual scrim environment, like, once you play in a real scrim environment, like, you realize, okay, like, my team's gonna synergize like this, this, and this. What I'd encourage people to do is just develop your own good habits in those games, because you can still, as tilting as it can be, and like, sometimes, like, trust me, my coping mechanism is just to fucking let it out. Like, I, like, Mills knows, dude. I let it out. I'm not holding my tongue.

Captain Coach (22:23.15)
Hmm.

Mike (22:28.153)
Hahaha

Captain Coach (22:28.595)
Hahaha

Coach Mills (22:28.953)
goodness.

Captain Coach (22:31.478)
Alright.

Samito (22:34.356)
I'm just letting it rip. Okay. Like I'm just, you know, and then I'm going next game. Yeah. Yeah. And like that's my coping mechanism. Cause I, I know y'all too hit the duo. know. Yeah. And it's, and it's, and it's all good, but like truly just focus on your own mechanics. And like the meantime, I wish taking angles mattered more because like ship damage and rivals just doesn't matter. And I would love, here's my solution to circle this back a little bit.

Captain Coach (22:36.238)
I'm very similar. There's a couple of videos.

Coach Mills (22:38.509)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, really? Are you sure? I feel like you're not a wholesome streamer around here. Okay.

Mike (22:42.948)
Ha

Yeah, I know.

Samito (22:59.164)
I would love to see them rain all this sustain in. Like, are people gonna get hard punished at first? Yes. Like, yeah, people are gonna get shit on, but guess what? Most of these players are boosted. And if you can, I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, like, you know, when I say boosted, I'm not gonna say, support players are boosted. Tanks take, like, there are so many tanks who take infinite damage, and I feel the support players pain where they don't understand the value of, hey, I need to hold my corner and learn, but like, guys, Rivals is no different than any other game. People will learn, people will adapt, and developing that skill curve,

is probably number one on Rivals list, because I have one big concern about this game. The art is the best art I've ever seen in a game. The skins are god tier, the storytelling is amazing, the load screens are gorgeous, the IP is elite. Okay? But the depth in the game is not deep enough. It's too shallow. It's so shallow that I can't play it for more than a couple hours. And that might just be me, and other people love grinding it. Great! But it...

Captain Coach (23:50.094)
Hmm.

Samito (23:54.218)
It could be so much more. make people have to be able to get punished and they have to stop designing the game. I shouldn't say have to.

In my opinion, they should stop designing the game for engagement like, the support players are gonna quit. Sweetheart, they're gonna go on strike no matter what you fucking do if you nerf Cloak and Dagger, alright? You know, but like, I think in the long term, as a video game, I mean, it's funny, but like, as a video game, at the end of the day, you're a video game. And I think we're gonna eventually learn this, and I'm not 100%, but I think this will be what we eventually learn. I called the ult, I'm calling this. You have to have a meaningful gameplay loop and depth to your game that makes the

Mike (24:12.452)
Hahahaha

Coach Mills (24:13.225)
my... That's crazy that that happened again on Twitter.

Samito (24:33.591)
consumer want to invest their time. You've got a great IP and skins that are always going to be coming out that people are always going to play the game for. But man, you have guys like Mike, guys like you guys that are going to say, dude, they'll realize how beautiful this game is and that we recognize when we played the alpha and beta with the marble characters, the gate, like the decisions you can make. And if every split section matters and okay, I can't take 50 damage here because that's what it's like in Overwatch six V six. And it's the most fun I've had playing a hero shooter in so long.

And I know rivals can capture that. It's gonna take a lot of aggressive changes though, and I don't know if Ziyang's gonna want to do it. I don't know if they want to do it.

Coach Mills (25:07.289)
I mean, I will say that this change, I didn't expect it. I didn't expect them to do it and they did it. They pulled the trigger on it. I mean, I thought this was gonna be something like, you know, this was gonna be something you were kind of pissed about forever and they never were gonna address it. They never were gonna nerf it. They were just gonna keep going in the other direction, but they did. And I think it's the step in the right direction, which I think if, as long as we outpour enough positivity about this is the right direction, let's do more.

Samito (25:10.857)
It feels amazing.

Samito (25:16.151)
Mm-hmm.

Samito (25:23.937)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (25:36.459)
I think that they'll fall soon. mean, they're listed. They do listen to people. They just have been listening to people that I don't really think they know what they want. They don't really see the vision like fully like what it can be. But I do want to move the question to you Mikey about three bands. We finally got three bands. How does three bands feel in the game? You know, do we need more bands? What do you think?

Samito (25:39.275)
They do.

Mike (25:39.971)
Yeah.

Mike (25:45.091)
Yeah.

Mike (25:52.066)
That's it.

Mike (26:01.496)
dude, I think this is like one of the best stages ever because back back, like last season, Let's say you ban Elsa and gambit then you leave in all these other op characters You know, I mean like you had to ban Elsa and gambit but now

with the fact that there's 20 % ult charges, you're kind of just free to like whoever. Of course there are still great bans, but now you can kind of choose what comp you want to play. Meaning like if you want to play a team full of flyers, you can ban hitscan players. If you want to play a full team of dive, you ban counter dive. So I just feel like it's a lot more diversity as last season was just you have to ban these characters or you lose. So I think it's great.

Captain Coach (26:28.899)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (26:40.962)
here that more characters cut down means more diversity not less because how many gatekeepers there are what a concept

Mike (26:47.256)
Yeah. Yeah.

Samito (26:47.414)
Careful don't don't don't put that on Twitter

Coach Mills (26:48.0)
Is... Is... Is... Is... Is... Is three bands enough? You think we need... Do you need more bands? Or you want no double bands? Or how do feel about that?

Mike (26:51.746)
Hahaha

Mike (26:59.8)
I think no double bans would actually be pretty good, but I don't know how they would do that. But I think it would be great for the game. I think it would be perfect because there have been times where you like ban Elsa first, they ban Elsa first, you ban Gambit, they ban Gambit, and then you're just kind of like cooked because all the other OP characters are in the game.

Coach Mills (27:14.487)
Yeah, I mean they could do it where you like have like first, second, third, like you select, you know, and then it's like, you know, yeah, something like Overwatch, could... Six bands, six unique bands is crazy though. A lot of characters will get banned. A lot of whole strategies will get banned. I know that there has been a somewhat, you know, it's a small support strike going on on Twitter because there's these screenshots of six supports being banned.

Mike (27:19.254)
Yeah. Yeah, that'd be good idea.

Samito (27:19.478)
It's what Overwatch does.

Captain Coach (27:20.942)
Hmm.

Mike (27:27.129)
Yeah.

Mm.

Samito (27:38.518)
You

Captain Coach (27:40.64)
Squash the movement.

Samito (27:41.704)
It's self-report, by the way. I mean, the players are voting. mean, it shows you there's a fundamental design issue there. But because the game is so good.

Coach Mills (27:42.943)
Yeah, yeah And it's it's it has to be both sides doing that and and I'm gonna tell you this right now support place When all of the meta supports are banned you get to play more fun shit, bro No one's yelling at you for playing Jeff the shark even though Jeff the sharks good But like no one's yelling at you for playing whatever the fuck you want Adam to support when all the fucking supports are bad play whatever you want Like you can do whatever you want when everything is banned And yeah

Mike (27:43.318)
Yeah.

Mike (27:49.131)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (27:59.766)
Ugh.

Mike (28:05.113)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (28:08.994)
I'm gonna play devil advocate here because I've been seeing a lot of supports not be positive on the three band change where I think everybody else has been. It's been mostly support players that have not. And their argument was that you can basically ban out the supports that are good into dive. now we have, we do have a dive meta like in Viz, Loki.

Coach Mills (28:22.361)
They're not positive interesting, okay?

Coach Mills (28:34.007)
But, but, but what, in their mind, what are those supports even? Like, do they actually, what are the supports that are good against dive? In their mind.

Mike (28:38.564)
Thanks

Captain Coach (28:41.58)
I would assume Invis, Loki, even like Cloak now is like kind of good because she can kill him.

Samito (28:45.128)
He's very good.

Coach Mills (28:46.355)
Because we have several good supports against dive, like quite a few good supports against dive.

Mike (28:50.222)
Yeah.

Samito (28:50.816)
But here's the thing though, people aren't banning these supports because they're anti-dive. They're banning these supports because they make the game miserable.

Mike (29:00.408)
Yeah, yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Samito (29:00.65)
That is why it is a fun and like like and I hope support players listen like I'm not just trying to dog on support players right now, but like this is out to Nettie's like it goes to show you how like the sustain in this game is what people hate the most if you can find a way to rein it in people be banning the DPS that are oppressive or the tanks that are oppressive over the supports but like it's the it's like the sombra syndrome and overwatch we're like she's not a strong character, but I'm watching my buddies and diamond and whatever stream and discord

as I get back in the game and they banned Sombra every game and she is shit. She is literally a C or D tier DPS and I know because I was the highest ranked Sombra player on NA forever I post her rework and she's perma banned but I'll tell you she's bad because people hate playing against her but like every support in the game is like it's just infinite sustain and so if they find a way to rein that in you will see more DPS get banned. You will see the dive DPS get banned but like it's not because

Mike (29:51.182)
Yeah.

Samito (29:57.976)
people want to play dive into you. It's because the game just sucks when it's all sustained. It just sucks.

Coach Mills (30:01.505)
Yeah, like this first like in visit in particular I don't even think that she's like a top four best support this season But I'll ban her because she's frustrating. It's it's fucking annoying to get pushed pulled It's annoying to have your ultimates cancelled because she can press one button and put a wall in front of her and block Literally like half the fucking ults in the game

Mike (30:02.552)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike (30:11.193)
Yeah.

Mike (30:18.926)
Yeah. That's just fucking annoying,

Samito (30:20.225)
hated that change. She has her jump too. Why does she get to shield? Like, I'm sorry, Invis players. I get it's fine, but like, this is what I mean. They needed to rein stuff in and let it be about players making decisions. Sorry to cut you off, Mills. I'll toss it back to you.

Mike (30:32.589)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (30:33.217)
No, no, no, I 100 % agree with you. That's literally exactly where I was going. that, that, and it makes sense that people just banned what's frustrating to them. And I think over time, people are gonna kind of learn, I can't just one trick these characters anymore. if people don't like these characters, and then maybe Nettie's will look at, all these characters are banned, maybe these are characters we need to address their kits, not just their power level, but their actual kits. And then, you know, maybe there'll be less banned in the future.

Captain Coach (31:00.66)
Yeah, there are some games where you could have the ability toolkit of Invisible Woman and probably cut her healing down to like 10 % of what it is and it would still be a good character in those games.

Samito (31:09.943)
Hahaha!

Mike (31:12.286)
Yeah

Captain Coach (31:14.222)
I need people to understand that when they say that supports... don't think... Like, utility used to be such a commodity in, like, team fight based games. Like, you look back... I mean, I know you guys come from Overwatch. I played Overwatch a little bit. I'm more of League of Legends guy. And while there's definitely not nearly as much sustain in League of Legends, but...

Coach Mills (31:14.393)
you

Samito (31:17.249)
You

Captain Coach (31:37.606)
Even back in the day, like when Thresh, the character Thresh got implemented, no one had ever seen a character with that much utility, that much CC. He has a ranged hook, he has an interrupt, he has an AOE slow, it immediately became the best character in the game. And then every other support after had to be on Thresh's level. And then there was basically what was a CC power creep, which is what I think Marvel Rivals is already going through now. CC change coming here in 7.5. What do you want that to look like?

Samito (31:55.957)
Yeah.

Samito (32:02.135)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (32:07.753)
because there is one. Yeah, 7.5. are multiple sources. what it read is multiple sources of CC hit on the same individual will be reduced. Every repeated effect will get consistently reduced.

Mike (32:09.401)
Yeah.

Samito (32:19.253)
Yeah. Overwatch did that a long time ago, is it, how does it get reduced? does it, how overwatch did it back in the day?

Coach Mills (32:24.569)
So, it's not a flat reduced percentage to tanks or something like that. It's like if a tank gets hit by one CC, the next form of CC won't hit it as hard.

Captain Coach (32:25.694)
I didn't know that...

Captain Coach (32:35.15)
Is it everybody or just only tanks or are you just like speaking like your PTSD is kicking in? Oh it is only tanks.

Mike (32:35.769)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (32:38.881)
No, in Overwatch it is only tanks. Like, they gave them a passive.

Mike (32:39.998)
Hahaha

Samito (32:43.223)
No, there was, um, no, no, this is, I'm talking, this is like Overwatch one, 2018. They did exchange where if you're hit by numerous CC, I think it was that whichever the last one that hit you, like is the timer. So like if you got shattered and then blizzard and then like some other stuff, I think the last one that I'd have to look it up, but like,

Coach Mills (33:00.953)
Well, the way that they worded it in this is that the effects would be reduced for each subsequent time. like the CC, like a CC, like if let's say you get hit by three CCs that are each six seconds long, the first one hits you six seconds, the next one will hit you three, and then the next one was like 1.5.

Samito (33:17.323)
seconds. The next one is you four, three. So you're still CCed for like eight seconds, basically.

Coach Mills (33:22.457)
Well yeah, but they have to you three times instead of... This is just on paper, I don't actually know how it's gonna be implemented. Yeah. Instead of you being CC'd for... It would be fucking 18 seconds, right? Instead of 8, right? So like, that's a lot of reduction potentially on paper. Yeah, it's gonna help the tanks the most by far. I feel like Venom is gonna get completely busted with a change like that to be honest.

Mike (33:22.626)
Yeah.

Samito (33:25.929)
Okay. I see. I see what you mean. I see what you mean. Okay.

Mike (33:27.64)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (33:29.599)
I think-

Samito (33:35.979)
Yeah, yeah.

And that's every roll.

Mike (33:42.435)
Yeah.

Mike (33:46.04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Samito (33:46.056)
Yeah. Dude, my.

Mike (33:50.527)
Venom's gonna be OP, dude. He's gonna be so disgusting.

Coach Mills (33:51.713)
Like, the only way to fucking kill Venom is with Chain Siege. Venom's really broken this season, by the way. Like, people don't know yet, but he's really broken this season. And he doesn't even have the CC reduction. Like, next season he's gonna be fucking insane.

Samito (33:56.238)
I'm aware. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm aware. I'm well aware. He doesn't die. He can't make mistakes. Did they, did they, question they buffed, did they buff his health over time? Right? Like he got more shields. Like that was one of the buffs they gave him from like, it was a long time ago. Yeah. Noticeable.

Captain Coach (33:59.085)
very good.

Coach Mills (34:09.057)
It was a while ago and he hasn't been in a good spot until this season with the new bands and the old charts change. And then like just the combination of being able to play with characters like Jeff and then you could play like Venom, Tankpool, Jeff, Double Team Up, like just do some bullshit now.

Samito (34:14.731)
Jesus.

Samito (34:26.577)
And this is why nerfs are the answer and not repeated buffs.

Captain Coach (34:26.964)
I,

Coach Mills (34:29.962)
Hahaha.

Mike (34:29.987)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (34:30.624)
I have a hope for what this, it's, Mills, you described like, my headset good? that's weird. think it was Mike turning his off. I could hear it, it was weird. Anyway, so yeah, you described the diminishing returns system for CC Mills that's in WoW or has been in for a while, where it cuts in half, cuts in half.

Samito (34:34.625)
Sure.

Samito (34:42.796)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (34:43.228)
yeah, you're good.

Coach Mills (34:56.949)
No, I'm saying that that is what it sounds like it's going to be implemented in this game.

Captain Coach (35:00.302)
I'm hoping that, cause there's a lot of characters like Hulk, instance, my main, where you need to be, you need to rely on your CC last a certain amount of time to do your combos. And it's kind of like woven into his kit. So what I'm hoping is that once you get hit by a certain amount of CC, just the short CCs will not go off. it just kind of, gives you like a mini pass of, so like interrupts just like won't work.

Coach Mills (35:12.745)
Yeah, right.

Captain Coach (35:30.806)
And I think that alone, because I don't know how you add that into the game without screwing over. How would Emma Grab work if they had gotten hit by a Phoenix thing and a Hella thing and then Emma Grabs and it just doesn't do anything? That would feel terrible.

Coach Mills (35:40.793)
Yeah, I mean, it's very, it's extremely vague and I don't know how it's gonna be implemented to be honest with you. We'll have to see, cause I got no idea. Cause we talked about that with Thor. It's like when I'm kidnapping with someone with Thor, I mean, yeah, cause I, well, I'm gonna hit them again. But if I hit them again, like, my body's physically moving. Are they gonna be behind me? Like when I'm, you know, like they have to be with me. You know I'm saying? Like that's the only way that that makes sense.

Mike (35:41.763)
Yeah.

Mike (35:45.977)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (35:54.168)
Well, that would be one of the types of CCs that would probably not work, because it's like Thor's a-

Mike (36:04.467)
Coach Mills (36:10.143)
Or maybe my dash doesn't go as far, which then it starts interrupting Thor's actual, you know, cause basically Thor is just dashing, but he's bringing someone with him. So like you would have to fuck with Thor's actual mobility if they were doing that, which I don't understand. Like.

Mike (36:19.298)
Yeah

Mike (36:24.01)
There's like so many different ways they could implement it and I feel like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I, yeah.

Coach Mills (36:27.041)
I- I- Fundamental changes like this are gonna fuck with so much, cause it's like, there's a lot.

Captain Coach (36:30.542)
I'm so scared of this change. I wrote it on my hand in marker to make sure I brought it up, because was just like, Hulk can either get completely screwed over by this change, or he become way better. I'm just sleep over it now.

Samito (36:36.942)
Hahaha

Mike (36:42.52)
Yeah.

Samito (36:44.929)
think Venom will be the biggest winner though. He's like, dude, I had a game where like, I'm pumping like maybe 30, 40K on the more like Punisher or something. And like, if my...

Coach Mills (36:47.073)
Yeah, definitely.

Coach Mills (36:51.449)
Yeah

Samito (36:54.847)
If my team doesn't understand when he's behind that you're not going to do anything to him, like I will zone him, but like we have to walk main and win a fight first. like they, if people don't get that rank, which again, most people don't understand positioning and rivals to the degree to the mastery of other games. Cause again, all that sustain like bails people out pretty much constantly. People don't play corners. walk down main tanks, take infinite damage, And like, you can just get away with it because that's how strong the healing is. You know, it's, it's scariest to think about how much you add CC reduction.

How do you get kills on some of these characters? I, I, but I will say it is, it is a good quality of life though. Like I will say, like, I think that that type of CC is like overall a great thing for the game, but don't let the sustain the game stop you from making quality of life changes to characters like Hulk, who I think are actually like one of the, some of the cooler tanks of the game. like tanks that have, you know, that trade off to, know, Hey, I can't feed here. can't take infinite damage down main, but some of those good Hulk players do like who understand how to not take damage.

Coach Mills (37:25.707)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Mike (37:25.796)
Yeah.

Mike (37:52.441)
yeah.

Samito (37:53.394)
are insane and you know so that'll be it'll be interesting to watch how that develops

Captain Coach (37:58.85)
So speaking of infinite sustain, Black Panther is a character that got changed. Mike, I know you play some BP. How are we feeling about that? If you one shot somebody, there is no sustain. So.

Mike (38:05.698)
Yeah.

Samito (38:09.687)
You

Mike (38:09.868)
Yeah,

Coach Mills (38:10.573)
Yeah.

Mike (38:14.158)
He's, I think he's like 50-50 still. mean, he definitely has way more agility, like he, you know, being able to climb up a thing and doing a jump.

It's actually a way bigger difference than people actually think again like you know sometimes you see those clips where they just climb up the wall they come down they get their three second quote on back but realistically in games you're doing a lot of these climbs up the wall and a lot of these different like jumps that you actually need and they actually change something crazy with VP is that sometimes there would be like a little ledge and It would be on the wall, but you couldn't climb up and you get stuck on it now You just actually just climb over so he's I he's it's like a little shadow buff

Captain Coach (38:50.594)
Huh. Yeah, I didn't know that.

Coach Mills (38:52.217)
Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it doesn't it doesn't cut because a lot of times you would climb and get stuck and you just die to bullshit like legit bullshit yeah

Mike (38:53.238)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

Captain Coach (38:58.22)
Okay, so a lot of BP's then were making fun of this change. So this is actually a good insight. the double...

Coach Mills (39:02.969)
Well, they were making fun of it before well, oh you're talking about the double well, yeah. Yeah the double jump change Yeah, they were making fun of

Mike (39:05.844)
Yeah The double jump I think is a good change and I still think black panther is like a good he's like a extremely extremely high Like ceiling character I would i'm saying i'm not the best bp by by no means but those people that are really really good and understand like

Everything to like the perfect, you know, the the spear dash like whatever combos I think they're having a good time with this change again. There's still a lot of CC in the game You can't really escape that there's a lot of sustain So I think BP's and he's in like I would say a seat here I would say he's not that much better than last season not yes, he's like

Coach Mills (39:38.073)
Yeah, yeah, so he's still dog shit. He's an old man. He's still a

Captain Coach (39:40.942)
will say though, I was playing Ultron and Ultron's always just like, yeah, you just go Ultron to BP. One of BP's got me out of the sky. I'm like, okay, he can do that now. He did some anime shit, man. He just like, woo woo, and he's like spun up and just, he barely got me too, but.

Mike (39:47.928)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that changed too. He can Yeah, he can do the... yeah.

Coach Mills (39:53.881)
Because... Because that...

Cause I don't know if you, um, you didn't play it. I don't know if you, did you play any of the, BP change Samito? Cause now his kit can go, it can go omnidirectional. So instead of being on like a flat ground for kick, you can spin kick up. So like, if you dashed at a rocket, you could spin kick and chase the rocket up. It gives them a lot. Like, I feel like you would really like that change. Cause you actually, you, yeah, you did. Hey, just, just, just yell your team, triple band CC and then run, run, run it down.

Mike (39:58.274)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Samito (40:03.841)
I did not.

Mike (40:11.672)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (40:14.754)
Yeah, it's one of the few times where I got killed and I'm just like damn

Samito (40:16.716)
Don't do this to me, bro. Don't do this to me. Don't do this to me.

Mike (40:19.425)
Hahaha

Samito (40:24.312)
Dude, don't do this to me bro. listen, real quick though, shout out Somjoo, those thing TikToks kill me bro. They kill me. They kill me bro. They kill me. I know, I know. It's so fucking funny. It's so fucking funny. But man, the thing is VP for me, it's like, one, he's actually the number one character in the game I think that could be reworked. That would be better for the players who play him as well as the game as a whole. I would love to see him get more uptime and be...

Mike (40:24.462)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (40:28.089)
That's like the best TikTok content on the platform.

Mike (40:29.57)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (40:30.51)
You

Samito (40:49.74)
Like heel reduction, similar to like a blade or something like that. Like imagine if you're cleaving through people like that, he could be like, you know, like he could single-handed, but that would might make them too strong. But if he's not like one shot comboing supports, right? Like it could be super. I think there's a lot of potential for him. If you were to get reworked, I won't open that can of worms right now, but that's a very good. Yeah. I saw his tweet.

Mike (41:01.038)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (41:06.669)
Yeah. Cause, cause car cat, car cats like a big time B B P. Yeah. He's the reduce, reduce the damage, increase the uptime, give you may win more options. Yeah.

Samito (41:16.748)
Yeah, well he needs it. He's all in. Like that's the reason I dropped the character. It's like, dude, I'm supposed to hit an all in combo in a game I have 90 FPS on when there's strange teleports coming in that's net code is not the best candidly, know? And like, I'd rather play Iron Fist and rework Iron Fist damage so that he just doesn't do anything. I know he's like, Iron Fist is better now, but for me, I...

Captain Coach (41:17.998)
Hmm.

Mike (41:27.246)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (41:31.929)
That that I want to I wanted to ask you real quick about iron fist because they they took a lot of characters and I noticed that they kind of reworked them back to their original state like Wolverine is now back to like prime You know season season zero Wolverine. Do you think that they should just revert iron fist back to yeah? Cuz I with the creep in the game and everything

Captain Coach (41:34.038)
Yeah, well, mean, isn't...

Samito (41:38.199)
Yeah.

Samito (41:43.98)
Yeah. Yeah.

Samito (41:49.113)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And here's why a duelist that

doesn't have a strong damage threat against other duelists, which I just don't think he does. Like I, like in season zero, I see, like, I just don't think he has a strong damage that compared to like 80 % of the other characters that I can pick. And I don't like rewarding mindlessly punching tanks and just farming. Like, yes, he can do things. I mean, again, you can nerf his cooldowns, whatever you want, but like his damage was like, it was at a perfect spot in season zero on squishies where like, it wasn't too much in my opinion. It wasn't nothing.

But like, it wasn't strong either. And because that was the case, his gameplay loop was so different in the decision that you could make. Like, I actually had a realistic option to go on a Luna or go on a tank. And if I pressured backline, I could kick back the tank and get that kill. I'm like, yeah, you could still do that now, but it's so easy to outheal his damage that like, at most he's fly swatting. And I don't find that interesting at all. Like I, I took...

Coach Mills (42:50.669)
Yeah, he's kind of just baiting out resources and not actually confirming anything. He's just like trying to suck up attention. That's that's it.

Captain Coach (42:51.149)
What's

Mike (42:54.585)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (42:55.04)
What's... It's actually something I wanted to ask both of you two about was the fact that I think Iron Fist is a really good example of this, that the skill ceiling of characters, I think they're kind of methodically trying to lower them all. And I have a couple of examples. Angela kind of nerfing her flight form, giving her longer cooldowns on that by making her brawly stuff make her tanky. Cap with the shield change recently kind of...

Coach Mills (43:24.185)
using the tech, yeah.

Captain Coach (43:24.428)
I don't know that we can talk about that. I don't have a ton of experience, but from what I've heard, it's actually like a buff forum because it makes it easier to do the animation cancel. And then with them.

Mike (43:28.014)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (43:34.093)
Yeah, I'm not sure.

Mike (43:34.518)
I have no idea honestly. Yeah, I don't play cat feeding.

Samito (43:36.01)
I've never played cap, so I couldn't tell you.

Captain Coach (43:38.241)
Okay, well, so you you

Coach Mills (43:39.373)
But Magic's another example, they massively increase, they more than double the size of her Dash hitbox, like they actually are.

Samito (43:45.09)
So are you asking me, are they intentionally trying to make the game have a lower ceiling? Yes. Yes. That's their whole thing is engagement. They aren't. No, not for my, not for my, my, okay.

Mike (43:51.416)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (43:51.63)
I guess more do you think it's like good for the game too? No, okay, so

Cause you want a BP to be more brawly, right? Is that just-

Samito (44:01.133)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, but I, you, he'd take away a lot of damage. I want him to have a more unique identity with uptime that makes him more playable in more situations, but less frustrating to play against for most of the cast. It's very similar to how Doomfist in Overwatch was a one-shot DPS, then got reworked into a tank so that he could still have his punch placed out. could still feel like, don't tell the DPS dooms I'm saying this. They'll brand me as a traitor. Uh, I know, I know, but like, but yeah, yeah, listen, but no, it's true. Like they, the way they changed that character is like, was objectively healthier for the game because it's, it's

Coach Mills (44:21.837)
Yeah, get Quaked on his fucking frothing right now, bro. I'm sending this click to him.

Samito (44:31.546)
It's insane to have a, and then one shot like, I just got slammed into a wall, Saitama. And I'm literally in SEDED. Like that was not a good mechanic for anyone other than the Doomfist. And when you're playing the Doomfist, like, dude, I would hard tilt on that character. Cause you just, you either get CC'd, it's feast or famine. Those feast or famine designs aren't healthy for games a lot of the time, especially when in like a game like this, where it's like, you're trying to play your favorite superhero. Okay. Well, what if they hard counter Panther? You can never play them. But if he has more uptime and less like one shot combo, but like,

Mike (44:34.968)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (44:45.081)
What?

Samito (45:01.466)
like the bleed effect, like if he applied a vibranium bleed and a heel reduction. So cleaving, like he would be another counter to like those, hey, we're going to group up on point and infinitely sustain triple support comps. Imagine if you're playing torch.

Coach Mills (45:03.575)
Yeah. That'd be sick.

Captain Coach (45:03.886)
Mmm... That'd be cool.

Samito (45:15.136)
And now Panther is a huge setup for Torch with a triple DPS comp, because this how you play triple DPS into those sustain comps. You play three DPS, you have an anchor or a super mobile tank, two supports on height, and your Torch would wrap high right. Your Panther would go slam in, you know, their DPS take an angle left and you create a massive kill box and you try to kill through them. But if Panthers cleaving through them all, marking them with vibranium, heal reduction gets applied, a bleed effect gets applied. Torch is pumping. Torch is pumping. Iron Man's pumping. That's the type, that's a counter comp. It's a new strategy.

Mike (45:31.342)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (45:37.88)
That's a great idea.

Coach Mills (45:39.267)
That'd be sick. That'd be sick. No, that'd be sick. Yeah, something. Yeah. Yeah. and.

Mike (45:40.44)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (45:42.067)
Slowing down the burst damage he does over a period of time to give some counter play. I really like that

Samito (45:48.61)
So now you're not out of the fight for 10 seconds, waiting for both your spears to come back. It's, it's bad design. It just, it just is.

Coach Mills (45:52.791)
Yeah, and I can already hear some of the comments talking about iron fist in particular But I want to make this clear and Samita will 100 % agree with me here Iron fist cannot even force a Jean Grey out of a fucking angle. He can't force her out an angle He runs up to her kicks her twice. She fucking dashes away shoots him three times and he runs That's literally he can't do fuck all and the entire time she's getting old charge. She's fucking getting life steal She used no resources because the next engagement she already have them back like

Mike (45:53.561)
Yeah.

Samito (46:04.992)
He can't. He can't. He can't.

Mike (46:05.662)
Yeah.

Samito (46:12.687)
He doesn't do damage.

Mike (46:14.904)
Yeah.

Samito (46:22.508)
And by the way, to add onto this, let me ask you question. Are you saying the comments will be upset because they say he's brain dead easy and he's like auto locking on people? that-

Coach Mills (46:29.549)
I mean, there's a lot of people that were just, feel like the, people, yeah, people did not understand, I think people massively over-evaluated Iron Fist because the game was new and he's a character that, if you did not know what the fuck was going on and he was just punching, if he was just punching you to death, you die. Like, massively, massively overrated for the time.

Samito (46:32.298)
He was the most overrated character at large from game journalists.

Samito (46:43.675)
I'm gonna shoot block.

Mike (46:45.358)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (46:50.734)
The shield on kill too in quick plays, way too good.

Samito (46:51.008)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these noobs would shoot, but like either way, like if people.

Coach Mills (46:53.175)
Yeah, the character today, like you could take that old version today and he wouldn't even be a top fucking 8 DPS, legit. He would not even be a top 8 DPS.

Mike (46:54.024)
yeah.

Samito (47:00.716)
Yeah. And he needs to be able to dual DPS. And if you want to trade that off by saying, okay, maybe he's not going to have as much auto lock. Maybe he's not going to have as much as that. Like that's fine. But like he has to have damage against squishies. You cannot have a DPS that can't dual.

Mike (47:01.849)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (47:11.705)
Yeah, the fact that they gave them that auto lock is the thing that I think kind of made them do all of this and they should have just reduced it. They should have just reduced the auto lock and made it so you had to aim. They could have made it so you aimed a little bit more and then in low elo, when people didn't know what the fuck was going on, the iron fist would be worse. And in high elo, when people knew what the fuck was going on, we could still have our hero. you know, yeah.

Samito (47:17.516)
Yeah, he doesn't need it. He doesn't need it. He's so cool. He was the coolest character I ever played,

Mike (47:24.323)
Yeah.

Samito (47:30.872)
They could be better. Bills, you want to laugh? I had somebody tweet, I hate to call people out, but this pissed me off. were like, Samito, like, you just played to win. Like, if you actually sat down and tried to learn it and play through it, because I legit uninstalled after the other night. I was like, I need a break from this game. Like, can't, I get too much of this. I'm tired of the angles. Yes. Yes. Yes, bro. Yes. Bro, because I take an angle and it means nothing. take, well, actually.

Coach Mills (47:37.337)
Call him, call him the fu- call him up.

Mike (47:39.523)
Hahaha

Captain Coach (47:50.434)
Wait, this season? Wait, what happened, bro?

Coach Mills (47:52.048)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's bad No, no I clicked on I clicked on a Sam stream on YouTube that said rivals played right I clicked on it was fucking overwatch. I was like god damn it, bro

Mike (47:52.504)
Hahaha

Mike (47:56.28)
Yo.

Captain Coach (47:58.866)
okay, got it.

Samito (48:03.498)
I'm on 6v6 everywhere. Yeah, but to be fair, to be fair guys, to be fair, I am also waiting for my new PC to come in, which got delayed by a week, and I really want to play the game when I'm not at like 110 FPS. So I'm very excited about that. Yeah, just, fuck.

Mike (48:04.766)
Hahaha

Coach Mills (48:13.043)
Yes. So I'm not going to lie. No, no. I mean, I bitch about this game nonstop and I have a supercomputer. If I didn't, I probably would have already quit. Like, there's no way that I could play this game at like sub 100 FPS. I just.

Mike (48:14.082)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really.

Captain Coach (48:14.7)
N- Take it from me, new PC's not gonna help too much.

Samito (48:24.12)
Yeah, no, so like, I'm excited for that. Like, that's what I'm waiting for. And I'm gonna get back into it. First of all, again, this old change is by far the best season I've played. I love it, it's great. I want my new PC to come in, and I'm not gonna force myself to play because I know it's coming. It's like a mental trap I've put myself in. You know it's coming, it's like, fuck, can't, I gotta wait for this shit. Let me see this scoreboard, let me see this.

Mike (48:27.854)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (48:40.673)
Right. Right.

Coach Mills (48:46.167)
What am I looking at? Wait, wait.

Captain Coach (48:46.86)
This is, I played this off stream before we started, just when we talk about tilting, tilting games.

Coach Mills (48:49.683)
haha, yeah, yeah, I watched this.

Samito (48:52.29)
you lose that

Mike (48:53.685)
no.

Captain Coach (48:53.9)
I lost this. was on Hulk for like 80 % of the game and yeah, sorry, I just, don't think I could have played much better.

Samito (49:00.024)
Yeah, it's Most finals though.

Coach Mills (49:00.621)
It was a very funny game to watch, it was just...

Mike (49:05.699)
That's insane.

Samito (49:05.952)
Yeah, no, you can't. There's the triple support. But this again, like this is where Panther, like before I get back to Iron Fist, this is where a Panther rework for that type of comp would be so, it's like, it's almost, you know, Wolverine is the tank check. You can't run three tanks or Wolverine and will check you. Panther could be the triple support check. It would be so cool to see him get that design and how in and out these Pan- because they're all, these guys are so good with their dashes, min maxing uptime and stuff like that. Give these cracked Panther players more uptime.

Mike (49:29.72)
Yeah. Yeah.

Samito (49:34.199)
Take away the damage so the supports don't hate it as much they can try to play against and make plays and let them shake and bake baby Let them Ricky Bobby like let's see it. Let's the zoomers might not know that but this guy was like They're like you just won't learn the game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you just won't learn the game You got to sit down actually learn iron fist. It's like motherfucker. I was one above all in season zero I'm champ to champ three in overwatch you think I don't know I play the game. It's not worth learning the fucking character it's not worth my time and energy because I could just

Mike (50:01.773)
Yeah.

Samito (50:04.122)
Just go Namor, Rocket, Cloak, Gene, any of these characters.

put in a third of the effort for triple the direct value in the game. And that is just more rewarding. It's more rewarding to play those characters. It's about the reward, right? And like that's, if rivals can capture that and do a better job of capturing that with these characters, it really does have the coolest characters in any game I've ever played. That's why I loved this game. I think that's why this game is successful. mean, holy crap, the skins, the animations, all of it. If they can lean into that more, like imagine like, and you tell me Mike, cause I barely touched TORCH. You tell me.

Mike (50:13.016)
Yeah. Yes.

Mike (50:31.481)
Yeah.

Samito (50:40.058)
If those triple support comps get run and like a character like Panther gets, you know, like heal mitigation for triple support, stuff like that, like do you see the game opening up for like a Torch or an Iron Man or like that style of play? Do you feel like your expression is there right now and where could you see it getting better?

Mike (50:46.467)
Yeah.

Mike (50:51.78)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely would. Because right now, if they're on triple support, my other DPS has to run upfront damage. He can't ever do any sort of damage. It's just impossible. So I think if a BP got the changes that you said, think triple support would be fixed. But then again, if BP is that good, then supports are going to quit the game because he's too good. there's too many like... I just... Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (50:54.51)
Hmm.

Samito (51:16.95)
Well, question. So you say they're going to quit the game. What I'm going to challenge this a little bit with old devil's advocate here. I think the thing that people hate about Panther the most is the fact that he's one shot killing them. Right. And I agree. I think it's kind of bull. I actually, like I said, I played Panther, but I think it's bullshit. I don't think as many players.

Mike (51:22.989)
Okay.

Mike (51:27.256)
Mm. Aha.

Yeah.

Samito (51:36.876)
would quit the game if he's not one shot killing them and they feel like they have a tangible interaction to have. Like that's the one thing I actually, the only time I've agreed with the rival support player base. Yeah. Yeah. Not, well, not as much.

Mike (51:40.088)
Hmm

Mike (51:44.227)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (51:45.017)
Because people aren't bitching about magic, like they're not bitching about losing to magic, right? Because the engagements are slower. Even when magic was good, they're not quite... It's a little too fast, like the engagement... You have like two seconds to make the right decision or you're dead. So a lot of times with BP. And that's where people kind of really struggle. But I want to pivot the conversation. I want to ask you real quick, Mike, before I talk about the new hotfix, is you picked up Spider-Man for the first fucking time last season.

Mike (51:49.624)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's too fast. Yeah, I get that.

Samito (51:55.734)
I think it'd be better.

Mike (52:00.01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (52:09.581)
Okay.

Mike (52:13.211)
yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (52:15.147)
And you, I mean pretty close if not a top 10 Spider-Man in the world just like fucking that like no ca- like there's not a lot of high ranked Spider-Mans that are winning like that and you picked it up so quickly Do you think that people are just undervaluing Spider-Man? Do you think that you're just naturally good at Spider-Man? Like what was your secret to just picking that character up and winning so much so fast? Getting all the way up to Eternity Plus?

Mike (52:20.983)
Yeah.

Mike (52:25.496)
Yeah.

Mm.

Mike (52:35.999)
Bye.

Would say a lot of people overrated how difficult spider-man is I will say of course he has a lot of hard mechanics like you know combos But the biggest thing that you have to realize of how to get good at a character is you got to realize What's their main purpose so like my whole thing? was like what does spider-man actually do he baits abilities the biggest thing that I learned is that? When to go in and out so if I went in I got a cloak bubble out I got some you to lie because there's there's a lot of you tell in this game on the bike There's so much so like if I if I got a cloak bubble out

Captain Coach (52:59.342)
Mmm.

Mike (53:10.406)
I get out and then I go in when she has you know, five seconds. That's like nothing but you know five seconds you use those five seconds to try and force The healers to look at you I just feel like you have to have a really have a growth mindset on What your character is supposed to do and just like you don't need all these crazy flashy combos You just need to know you just need to know like the vanilla base What I need to do for my team to win and that's that's it. That's all I did

Captain Coach (53:38.094)
All right, I might as well ask you since we're on the subject, why do my Spider-Mans keep going in 1v6? Is it worth it to do that? Is it worth it? I need hear it from the source here.

Mike (53:43.446)
Noooo! You can't...

Samito (53:43.949)
Yeah

Coach Mills (53:43.993)
The amount of time fucking spider-mans dude everyone's dead they go in and all by themselves. I don't understand like I Okay, here's why before you answer I want to see this right this is my theory is that there's a lot of Not players like you that are picking him up for a challenge But natural spider-man players that they they need constant fucking stimulation like legit

Captain Coach (53:52.29)
Like why not just wait till I'm a little closer I can follow up? Am I crazy in thinking that?

Mike (53:55.009)
I mean...

Mike (54:04.9)
Mmm.

Samito (54:06.553)
you

Mike (54:08.452)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Coach Mills (54:10.647)
That's why they play Spidey, because the game is not ADHD enough for them. They need it fucking up to 10. So the idea of sitting there and waiting for their team to come back is too much. That's too many seconds of not doing anything. I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew. Yeah, I love that fucking movie dude. That's peak.

Captain Coach (54:14.839)
Yah.

Mike (54:21.442)
Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (54:21.653)
I know, Samito making a Ricky Bobby reference earlier. was in a game earlier with a spider. In a game earlier with a team, we had a Spider-Man on the team. Well, I asked him, I'm obviously Mike Knows This, Mike, what's your favorite Destiny's Child song? Cause I asked... Same response in my case.

Samito (54:24.931)
Yeah, he's cheating.

Samito (54:31.939)
Yeah.

Mike (54:38.392)
Destiny's Child's Honored, I even know what that is, dude.

Coach Mills (54:41.273)
No, we got we have three we have three unks on here and then Mikey bro, there's a lot

Mike (54:43.798)
I have no idea,

Captain Coach (54:50.178)
Why I I was holding it I was biting my tongue because I wanted to say it when he said the Ricky Bobby because I I asked anyone of my games today because someone said say my name Something like what your favorite does to use Charles and I figured I don't know well you should look them up Mike. They're really good

Coach Mills (54:55.296)
Alright.

hey. You gotta go watch, you gotta watch, you gotta watch Tal Dagan Nights, bro. If you ever watch that,

Mike (55:01.932)
Yeah.

Samito (55:03.213)
You're at the barbecue right now, Mikey.

Captain Coach (55:05.76)
Yeah.

Mike (55:06.05)
Yeah, literally, I'm about, yeah, literally, I'm learning a lot of, how do I say?

Samito (55:09.081)
Have you seen Talladega Nights? Have you not seen the movie?

Coach Mills (55:11.029)
No he has, Mikey has not, there's no way he has, there's no way has you did? you did? Okay, you did, okay, okay, okay, nevermind, nevermind Yeah, that's crazy Yeah, okay, Okay

Mike (55:12.708)
I've seen Ricky Bobby movie. forget what it's called, but I've seen that movie. I've seen that movie. Yeah, I've seen that movie. Surprisingly, I've seen that movie. good. Yeah.

Captain Coach (55:13.665)
haha

Samito (55:17.667)
town again I see ya

Samito (55:22.234)
Welcome to the cookout, bud. We might get the beers here in a minute.

Captain Coach (55:24.686)
I saw Stepbrothers pretty late in life. I saw it only a couple years ago and it was so funny. It was so funny.

Coach Mills (55:30.349)
That's a good movie too. There's so many Will Ferrell movies you can just binge, like legit. So we got a hot fix just yesterday announced, and this is a nerf to the Deadpools, but it's mainly just nerfing DPS pool. But no, here's the thing, Sumito. Don't say thank God, because it does fucking nothing for Tank Pool. It doesn't do shit. It doesn't hurt that character. Like, I don't understand. So I keep telling people this.

Mike (55:31.394)
Yeah. Yeah.

Samito (55:31.735)
I did that for real!

I know, know, big peak.

Mike (55:37.272)
Yeah.

Samito (55:45.741)
Thank God.

Mike (55:46.947)
Yeah.

Samito (55:49.951)
I know, I know I saw.

Mike (55:50.978)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Coach Mills (55:58.659)
Tankpool is like the best, like a top two fucking hero in this game. And they don't want to nerf that character for some reason. I don't know. They did nerf, well, I mean, this is not a lot. It's not even close. Like not even close. Like it's, he's still SST or whatever. They did kind of gut DPSpool and then they definitely hurt Elsa and then they massively massively buffed WhiteFox.

Mike (56:05.614)
Yeah.

Samito (56:06.009)
because it's Deadpool.

Captain Coach (56:06.924)
Well, they did nerf them. They did nerf them a lot, but not near, everybody knew it wasn't enough. Everybody knew.

Mike (56:10.774)
Nah, it's not good enough. Yeah, it's not enough.

Mike (56:25.401)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (56:25.837)
Which I wanted to talk really quickly about WhiteFox because I think that WhiteFox's ultimate is the way that all support ultimate should be, in my opinion. It requires timing, it requires initiative, it requires you to commit to it. It's not just, fuck, we're losing, I'm gonna press my Q button. Or like, we're out of position, I'm gonna press my Q button. That's not what WhiteFox's is. I really like, like there's a lot of people that are kind of complaining about they want WhiteFox's ult massively, massively buffed. And I just think that, no.

Captain Coach (56:28.248)
trading bans.

Samito (56:33.015)
Yes, yes.

Mike (56:54.52)
No.

Coach Mills (56:55.339)
Other rules should come down to Y-Fox.

Samito (56:55.341)
You, you want every support in the big game band still? Like, I mean, it's just like, there's a reason, like, and I liked that a lot and the game needs to be turned more into that in my opinion, because there's only so long you can dangle the keys in front of kid and say, Hey look, know, shiny thing. Like, no, like you need depth. You need to create depth.

Coach Mills (56:59.02)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike (56:59.445)
Yeah.

Mike (57:10.777)
Yeah.

Samito (57:14.551)
And eventually that, that facade is going to run out. And I was hoping they'd lean more into that type of stuff. Then, in this press is Q and then we're to buff it. everybody slowed and then cloak gets four dashes. And you know, it's just.

Captain Coach (57:23.266)
So the slam that she does, she has to aim that. Is that why you're saying it's better? Like it's more interactive, the white fox salt.

Mike (57:24.376)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (57:31.929)
What's up? no, just saying that just as an old in general, I'm not talking about what these changes, I'm just saying the ultimate as a whole, I think is just a better design support. Right, right. I like I'm a much bigger fan of the old, like even like Jeffel and white fox, so like old that are they they're playmaking old you you win the game from them like they can help your team and bail your team out of things. But it's not just we press this and we're immortal. It's like

Samito (57:41.485)
It's not instant direct value. It's not instant direct value.

Captain Coach (57:43.628)
right

Mike (57:44.331)
Okay.

Samito (57:48.93)
I agree.

Mike (57:52.473)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (57:58.766)
.

Coach Mills (57:59.467)
If we have an advantage in the fight, can snowball this advantage or I can hold theirs.

Captain Coach (58:01.934)
Yeah, I had a... I wanna talk more about White Fox, but I had someone saying today that StrangeAlt should have CC immunity while he's casting. I'm like, no, we need less of that. We need less of those things. We want more counterplay.

Samito (58:14.969)
Yes, don't buff everything. It never ends. It never ends.

Coach Mills (58:16.236)
No, that's the skill expression. That's the game sense and skill expression. We're just gonna...

Mike (58:16.417)
Yeah.

Yes.

Captain Coach (58:20.286)
Yeah, I feel like Strange Alt is the perfect cast time as far as counterplay is concerned. And I wish they would make more long casting alts. So you have to, okay, Mag, bubble me while I go in, Hulk, bubble me. I wanna see more interactions like that, not less, you know, but I'm...

Samito (58:25.827)
Yeah.

Mike (58:34.168)
Yeah, I agree.

Coach Mills (58:36.023)
Yeah, I definitely I also thought it was interesting how they have done two hot fixes this season and they very, very rarely have done hot fixes like this, but they're they're seeming to do a more proactive role into the balancing where they, you know, they did that. They did the really fast hotfix patch where they actually, you know, fix the cap change. They gave BP his omnidirectional kick in the hotfix. And this was before the patch was even playable. It was like they announced the changes and then people were kind of mad about some of the changes.

And then they added more changes before. And then now it's really early. I mean, it's only been out for a week and they're already hitting more things. It feels like they're taking a much more proactive role into balancing the game as the season plays out and not just waiting for the whole season to play out.

Mike (59:07.928)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (59:20.578)
Mills, White Fox is popular enough. I don't think they need a buffer this much. I gotta do a game. not even, four White Fox Lords on my team in one game. People are playing the shit out of her.

Mike (59:21.518)
Yeah.

Mike (59:31.108)
That's insane actually. Yeah, that's insane.

Coach Mills (59:31.447)
No, no, but you're gonna be stuck with them on your fucking team, man. You don't want them to be trash. telling you, like... I've only fucking won. The only time I've won with Wyfox on my team is when it's fucking Kurova, a pro player that's playing Wyfox, and not like a random ass...

Captain Coach (59:38.232)
Well, I'm glad everybody's down to heal, but I'm banning this character now, so...

Mike (59:50.13)
yeah.

Captain Coach (59:50.598)
wait, wait, we had Zype. We had what, Zype White Fox? How could you forget?

Coach Mills (59:55.255)
did, we did have Sypeh too. Those are the only two, those are the only two! Pros, pros playing the character, that's who I'm winning with. Okay, yeah, yeah, he made the game really easy. Yeah, yeah, he dove, when we dove into their team, he fucking ulted in and we wiped their whole team, it was really, really smart. They didn't just wait around on point.

Samito (59:57.209)
That's a free win.

Captain Coach (01:00:00.558)
It was very easy. Yeah It was very easy

Samito (01:00:00.947)
You can put- You can put Saipan on any character in the game.

Captain Coach (01:00:13.07)
I'm pretty sure I could have just followed him around, bubbled him, and not even used an ability we probably would have won. I could have just followed, yeah, just.

Mike (01:00:17.668)
Hahaha

Samito (01:00:18.561)
Hahaha

Coach Mills (01:00:21.613)
You

Samito (01:00:22.334)
That dude is legit smurfing in this game. it's just insane. He's LARPing. He's LARPing in this game.

Captain Coach (01:00:24.216)
But I did before we. Yeah, before we did change. Yeah.

Mike (01:00:24.728)
Yeah, it's tough.

Coach Mills (01:00:24.909)
No, that's it's great. It's actually crazy. It's crazy

Mike (01:00:29.86)
He's like Thanos, dude.

Samito (01:00:31.117)
Dude, y'all don't, like he was cracked in Overwatch too, like holy, some of the... He's a part of those EU guys who are always like, cloudy and fancy and those guys who've always been like... I know it because I played on mixed rosters. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:00:34.425)
See, I didn't know anything about him in Overwatch. I didn't.

Coach Mills (01:00:43.865)
Cause he's, he's doing what aimbot fucking Calvin did back in Overwatch. He's doing it here with like five accounts in top 10. Like he's just, yeah, yeah.

Samito (01:00:49.975)
Yeah. And he's smurfing here. He's been like, dude, he's been like, he's been like, what's the announcer dude. He's like Rock Lee with the weights off in this game. Like it's like, it's, it's crazy. It's actually crazy. It's crazy. It's funny, but it's crazy. Yeah. If true dude. Yeah. Don't get me started. We don't need to go to this. And I want, yeah, that.

Mike (01:00:50.382)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:00:56.605)
Hahaha

If he actually got the justice that he was supposed to and then yeah, yeah No, no, they fucking ruined that that show could have been way peaker if they actually gave him just

Captain Coach (01:01:04.524)
Mmm.

Samito (01:01:10.126)
You see they might do a remake real quick. You see they might like do a remake. Apparently there was a budget for like an abridged one piece and Mr. Beast came out and was like, I will pay for the abridged Naruto. I would be, I'd be fired, bro.

Coach Mills (01:01:18.297)
I did see that shit. I did see that. Now, I've actually thought about like at one point if I ever become a billionaire or when I become a billionaire, I just want to like I just I just want to pay for like canceled shows and like animated just get remade like or games or games exactly. Yeah

Captain Coach (01:01:18.55)
I saw that. I saw that. Yeah.

Mike (01:01:20.184)
Really?

Mike (01:01:27.935)
Oh, that's a good one, that's a good one, that's a good

Samito (01:01:28.267)
Hahahaha!

Samito (01:01:34.009)
Yeah. Or games. I'll put you on. I'll put you on. Spider-Man Web of Shadows, dude, from 2008. was one of the best storyline games of all time. Hey, Nettys, listen, y'all are cooking with rivals. You want your next game? Web of Shadows, bro. Web of Shadows.

Coach Mills (01:01:42.058)
yeah.

Captain Coach (01:01:43.554)
Mmm.

Coach Mills (01:01:49.625)
It's about time where like people with real like fucking money just they could just blow it on stuff just because they want to see it. They just want to see a remastered version of an old game. All right, here's here's here's the mills. OK, the other character I really wanted to talk about specifically with Mikey, because I think you played him a little bit is Blade. I know you used to play him a lot and you haven't played him a lot since. How do you feel about it? Do do? Did they actually finally get it right? I've been seeing a lot of Blade drama on my fucking tick tock page lately about the character being good or bad.

Mike (01:01:57.72)
Yeah.

Samito (01:01:58.681)
Yeah.

Mike (01:02:08.984)
Yeah.

Mike (01:02:13.782)
Yeah.

I'm not gonna lie. I don't know anything about the blade drama, but in my when I have used him He's a really really good counter to triple support and triple tank. He's like a really really good counter because they don't have enough damage to deal with him He's so good. He's like unkillable now Especially if you get like some sort of pocket you get like a Luna snowflake and you just literally just get your sword out get the lifesteal He is unkillable. I think he's in a great state now

Coach Mills (01:02:32.441)
100 % yeah.

Captain Coach (01:02:44.194)
That sounds a lot of fun.

Mike (01:02:45.54)
He's so fun. Literally all you do is get your sword and just slash away Yeah

Coach Mills (01:02:46.657)
Yeah, that when we were when we were when we were doing When we were doing cap when I was I kept on bitching because I was playing support I was feeling support the blade would come on to us and we would both be just shooting at him and that motherfucker would just take no damage like I was like I was like I need someone to come help me with this guy because I can't kill him he's at like 350 HP just constantly kicking our fucking teeth in

Captain Coach (01:02:48.752)
He's like a drain tank. A little bit. Yeah.

Mike (01:02:59.96)
Yeah, yeah, he's insane.

Captain Coach (01:03:06.796)
He

Mike (01:03:07.182)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:03:09.314)
My punches do make his health bar go down, but when he is hitting me and I'm hitting him, it's... My goes down a lot faster, let's just say that. It's just going up, up, up. I'm just like, you gotta be kidding me. He is very hard to deal with for low damage teams.

Mike (01:03:15.972)
This is like nothing. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:03:17.834)
Hey

Coach Mills (01:03:22.839)
I like Sabino, I feel like you would actually like New Blade. I don't know, like when you'd re-download the game, I think you would.

Mike (01:03:25.347)
Yeah.

Samito (01:03:29.049)
I'm so let's say that here's, here's what I'm scared. Here's what I'm scared about. Well, I already have a redownload. I won't lie to you. You know how that shit goes. Like, you know how that shit goes, but I was probably a off stream. Like I'm addicted. I can't fucking quit.

Coach Mills (01:03:34.521)
Yeah, okay How many times have you downloaded and redownloaded overwatch and marvel rivals to get combined how many what's the number if you had to add Yeah, like it's probably over 100. It has to be

Captain Coach (01:03:34.766)
The roller coaster of emotions.

Mike (01:03:34.85)
Hahaha

Captain Coach (01:03:42.446)
Tyler one reference we like that

Samito (01:03:47.941)
Let's add Raid Shadow Legends in there too, because I had installed that shit and I sent them a fucking, I sent them a scalding fucking email after they fucked me the other day. I'm not lying. Like, I was pissed off, bro. I was, hey, shout out Big Papa Drop though. He's healthy again. Shout out to that man. He's on Rivals too, bro. He's on Rivals, but not legit. Like, I want, like, dude, like,

Coach Mills (01:03:54.521)
Oh no, no, no.

Captain Coach (01:03:55.419)
no.

Coach Mills (01:04:00.055)
Okay, okay.

Samito (01:04:06.17)
You guys are like teasing my addiction right now because you know I'm a flex DPS player, man. Like the gameplay loops of learning, like the torches or echoes or like the DPS Doomfist Sombras or Blade or Iron Fist. Like once you get like a taste, like you just get addicted to that shit and you like see the game in front of you. But like, I know that playing into some of the supports in this game, and I'm so sorry, support players. I'm trying, I promise I'm not trying to dog on you. It's just like, I know the amount of effort that I would have to put in would go so far above and beyond what I would get out of it.

Coach Mills (01:04:10.381)
Yup.

Mike (01:04:11.022)
Yeah.

Mike (01:04:16.196)
Hmm.

Mike (01:04:21.293)
Yeah, dude.

Samito (01:04:36.124)
That like, it's just hard for me to want to do it. When I can just play no more and just chuck, try it into people. like, but I'll probably get on and try. know I can hit Avenue up or somebody up and just be like, yeah, what's the fucking scoop or maybe get the T on the blade drama. That shit's funny. I find, I find that stuff really funny. Oh, was it really? What happened? What happened exactly? Oh, I saw this. I saw this.

Captain Coach (01:04:40.684)
Yeah, I feel that way a little bit too about some characters, 100%.

Mike (01:04:42.403)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:04:51.565)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, was it was with Avenue. Yeah. Well, it was it him and another blade creator. They're they're arguing about Blaine being good or bad. Avenue is like the characters good and not a guy's like character characters bad. They're just going back and forth about it like.

Mike (01:04:54.274)
Yeah.

Mike (01:05:03.118)
Yeah.

Samito (01:05:07.438)
That shit is so, dude, that's like, dude, this is like, this is, you what I love about the Rivals community, bro? Like, I, like, this is all me as a kid in Overwatch 1, and y'all are just really, like, the support drama, the fucking plan for the vibe shit, like the, it's like the old Mercy drama, it's just so fucking funny, like. dude.

Coach Mills (01:05:25.035)
No, if TikTok was around back when Overwatch 1 was like popping, it would have been a completely different like...

Mike (01:05:30.22)
Ha ha.

Samito (01:05:32.25)
How was rivals? Tik TOK. we tell me, can we segment to this real quick? How is like rivals? Tik TOK. Like, what is it like as a space? Like I truly am. I'm not on Tik TOK. I'm, unk. So.

Coach Mills (01:05:39.627)
I mean, it's kind of crazy because everyone knows everybody on TikTok and drama blows up really easily because if something happens, someone makes a TikTok about it, everyone sees it. Everyone sees the drama on their page.

And then like people make TikToks responding like so people basically will have a conversation with each other that everyone gets to see. Yeah. Yeah. And then then like everything that's controversial gets reacted by like 10 people like legit. It's like any fucking yeah. Any anything that happens is always farmed. And then like there'll be people like Quad shout out Quad. He does great content. He'll he'll be like documenting like like Pick and Roll and Kingsman are like the top two fucking magics. And he'll like break down their matches to determine who's the best.

Samito (01:05:58.581)
My boy flats has the react up already. It's just a content farm.

Mike (01:06:01.279)
Hahaha

Yeah.

Samito (01:06:10.541)
Also, also.

Coach Mills (01:06:23.223)
Magic like like just the matches like I'm telling you if this shit happened back in overwatch It would have been it would have been insane like it would have been fucking nuts, dude

Samito (01:06:23.938)
It's just like the old days.

Mike (01:06:29.262)
Yeah.

Samito (01:06:29.358)
And I just gotta say, speaking of drama, you guys are welcome, by the way, for getting that boosting throwing game site taken down. Unc was the one who got that shit taken down. Yeah. Well, I messaged the guys, so like, there was like a group shot.

Coach Mills (01:06:37.898)
Wait, wait, did you really wait how?

Mike (01:06:38.978)
Really, y'all?

Captain Coach (01:06:39.822)
Mike (01:06:42.276)
Thank you.

Samito (01:06:44.792)
that these fucking dudes are in and like, I don't read this shit that often. They're sitting there like, well, we made a throwing website. I'm not reading this shit. Like I have fucking shit. I talked to you guys a little bit about what I'm doing off stream right now. I got a lot of shit on my, I'm not fucking reading this shit. So I see flats is tweet about it. I'm like, what the fuck is going on over there? And so they're like, yeah, somebody started a throwing website. So I dropped the DM in that chat and I was like, boys, what the fuck are you all doing?

Coach Mills (01:07:06.644)
Yeah

Samito (01:07:07.5)
Like y'all are bright. Like what the fuck are you guys doing? And then, and then I was like, do y'all realize that like you're trolling right now? Like this is me pulling the card. Turn this shit off and never boot it back up. Like I'm not like, you know me, like I'm going to shoot straight with y'all. Turn this shit off. And they turned it off.

And then they got a C &D the next day and they were like, Sam, you were right. And I was like, yeah, I was fucking right. like, like what y'all never should. I wish I was reading this shit when y'all were joking about, cause like, you know how it is. That shit was no different than any discord where people have been tossing forever. They just put a website up about it. And was like, guys, like, don't do that shit. Like just, you're just like, you're asking for trouble and like, this does not make the game better. It doesn't like it. Don't tell me in one sentence you care about the game. And then the next sentence be like,

Coach Mills (01:07:28.185)
god. What the fuck?

Mike (01:07:31.844)
That's crazy, dude.

Samito (01:07:52.027)
like, this is funny. dude, you have kids going 8 and 62 in a game. That is not fucking funny. Like, it's like, it's like when DeFran, do remember when DeFran did that shit in Overwatch 1 and like, like, yeah. But yeah, like, it's just like, yeah, yeah, you were probably running it down on tour, buddy. But no, but listen, I, yeah.

Mike (01:07:53.482)
yeah, I saw that shit.

Coach Mills (01:07:57.721)
Yeah, the fucking throw-off. Yeah. Yeah, it's insane

Mike (01:08:04.196)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly so, yes.

Coach Mills (01:08:04.697)
Yeah the throw a throw for their brand. Yeah I was right there with the Noms kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How'd you know.

Captain Coach (01:08:13.428)
I used to be on Tyler1's list.

Samito (01:08:16.846)
were you really on it?

Coach Mills (01:08:17.633)
No,

Mike (01:08:17.826)
Really?

Captain Coach (01:08:18.347)
About a half a dozen people, I was one of them. He ran it down for me a couple times.

Samito (01:08:21.027)
Hey, Coach Mills, you remember SOS? It's a Samito soldier on site.

Coach Mills (01:08:26.167)
No, what was that? That sounds fucking familiar. my god, bro.

Samito (01:08:31.995)
I had a list where I the overwatch community and just maybe take like take it down cuz like it was a joke like I wouldn't like run games down but like if I saw like X player on my team was a one trick like I'm just picking soldier because I think it was actually a good play because like if you're playing Moira and they have Bap Zen like I can't take an angle with you so I'm gonna go play soldier and take my own off angle you know it's what I'm gonna do like it was good play and my win rate was higher than all the one tricks that were on the list so I'm gonna say but that's toxic my bad gang my bad but anyway back to rivals back to rivals

Coach Mills (01:08:42.073)
Ha

Coach Mills (01:08:56.825)
Let's go No, I just so I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about this Sam But I wanted Captain coach to know a little bit about your lore with like the old Florida mayhem I don't know if you want to talk about any of that stuff No, cuz because I feel like y'all are similar in a lot of ways. so so Samito guy I you could tell it so we don't got in some trouble with Florida man back in the day back in the day So had some he had some really kind words for some people and ranked.

Samito (01:09:09.504)
yeah, I mean, yeah, we can talk. I'm an open book, brother. I'm an open book.

Mike (01:09:23.972)
okay, I see where it was.

Samito (01:09:24.715)
I was not in the best mental state of time. Like I was so overworked. was stressing out. The game I love was dying. Right. And yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:09:29.977)
He was signed as a creator to Florida mayhem the the org the eSports org for overwatch

Captain Coach (01:09:37.174)
Okay, yeah, yeah.

Mike (01:09:37.806)
Yeah.

Samito (01:09:38.139)
And like this, there had been like three straight weeks of like Reddit cropping my clips, trying to get my contract cut and like just blatantly wicks haunting me. it would total false. So it's like, I went and read the Overwatch forums and these kids said that I was committing a cyber crime because people had their IPs leaked for me reading a forum. Like that's literally all I did. And let's just say I told this kid to, keep himself safe for lack of a better words.

Coach Mills (01:10:02.745)
Yeah

Captain Coach (01:10:04.183)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Samito (01:10:04.442)
And I apologize half a second later. And then I got cut. Like what was fucked up about it was, I don't really told this like publicly is like at first, like I was just gonna get fined. And I was like, I insisted on paying a fine. was like, yeah, listen, I'll pay a fine. I fucked this up. Like it's on me. You got to take ownership of it. And then like three days later, they came back like, yeah, I'm fortunate. gonna have to cut your contract, but we'll keep it cordial. We'll keep it nice. And I was like, yeah, look, that's all I ask. Like I'm not in the best mental spot. So I'm just going to take, and that's the thing about the internet guys and ranking games. So like what I've learned over the years is like, if you're in so deep.

that it's like taking his toll on you. Don't burn the candle on both ends. Like take care of yourself. Take a step away. Do that. that. Like if I could go do it all again, I would take much better care of myself because like I know Mike, you get it. I know you guys get, cause you're competitors too. You grind your channels. It's like.

Mike (01:10:48.803)
Yeah.

Samito (01:10:49.558)
Something that you have to do in this space is be constantly checked in and that can be really damaging to yourself. Like, you know, rest just for the mind, it is for the body when you're working out. And if you're not careful, like you will burn it at both ends, but they were like, yeah, we'll keep it nice. And then they, I sent them my like goodbye video. said, this looks great. And then we posted, but they ratted me last second. They posted and then switched up their message and made it super hostile. Like they never wanted any association with me. And I was like,

Coach Mills (01:11:14.211)
no.

Captain Coach (01:11:16.065)
Yeah.

Mike (01:11:16.131)
Wow.

Samito (01:11:16.502)
What the fuck? Like you guys just had me make this super nice video about you guys being cordial and then you roast me like without like what the fuck? So that was fucked up, but you know hey you gotta own your shit.

Captain Coach (01:11:26.03)
I do really appreciate that advice. mean, there's probably like a new video me every month where I'm just kind of, know, shouting at someone. I guess I could talk about that a little bit.

Mike (01:11:26.83)
them.

Coach Mills (01:11:36.183)
Yes. Yeah. Cause that to kind of cause some, know, like what happened to you, what happened to you all the time where like any video interaction with you would be a video gameplay. People would post, they do that with captain coach. He's like, that's what that, that's what basically happens. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (01:11:37.22)
You

Samito (01:11:37.978)
Okay, I don't give a fuck.

Samito (01:11:50.171)
yeah.

Captain Coach (01:11:51.118)
Yeah, there's one recently with a support player. obviously like... Yeah, like I do get carried away sometimes, you know, doing the whole like angry Hulk guy routine, you know. So I do appreciate that advice. Like sometimes you are just tilted and even though maybe like whatever 20 % of what you're saying you mean, like it doesn't matter. people, it's not up to them to understand like the nuance of like what, you know, you just got to not be an asshole at the end of the day. But like...

Samito (01:11:54.498)
I don't give a fuck, bro. That's my answer. I don't give a fucking shit.

Coach Mills (01:11:56.236)
Yeah, I'm like...

Samito (01:12:16.066)
Yeah.

Samito (01:12:19.604)
no, fuck that. You can still be an asshole. I'm an asshole, right? Michael Jordan was an asshole. I don't give a fucking shit. Like, you know, like if I'm going to, like if somebody's aping out my team, I'm going to tell them, you're aping out my team right now. Like I'm not holding my damn tongue. Like, listen, you want to run it. We run it, but also take care of yourself. You know, it's, it's, it's two for one. Sorry to cut you off.

Captain Coach (01:12:36.578)
Nah, you're good, man.

Coach Mills (01:12:36.689)
Yeah, guess enough enough toxicity coming out of you kind of blows back on you a little bit if you're too deep on it too for too long. That makes sense. I see that. Yeah.

Samito (01:12:42.264)
Yeah. Yeah. Balance, man. Balance is key. Be a competitor. There's no, listen, there is no shame in being a competitor ever. It comes with the territory, right? Sometimes you're to fuck up and cross a line when you do own it. When you don't stand your ground. It's that simple. It's that simple. Maybe that's the, maybe that's good advice. Maybe it's not, but we'll learn as we go, baby. That's how we do it. That's how we got to do it out here.

Captain Coach (01:12:43.19)
Yeah, 100%, 100%.

Mike (01:12:59.428)
you

Coach Mills (01:13:01.593)
So, kind of to wrap things up, unless there's any big thing that you want to talk about, I wanted to talk to you, Mikey, because they said that there's more torch changes coming in 7.5. So what do you want those to be? What do want those to look like to really push torch over the edge? What would you like? Maybe not to broker territory, but just so you like it more.

Captain Coach (01:13:03.438)
Yeah, absolutely.

Mike (01:13:12.292)
my god

Mike (01:13:26.838)
Yeah, so the only problem is is that if they buff the wrong thing a little bit too much Torch is a character to where if he gets a slight buff, he's the best character in the game I mean, it's what it's what happened in the in like the torch God comp if you guys know what that is where it was like three supports that He was just so over tuned. had infinite ammo But the buffs that I would like to see is definitely a cooldown reduction on his dive bomb because it's 20 seconds and with

All these other characters being op being able to just do like that much damage to you in half a second he definitely needs that to be lowered because his dive bomb is used to Kill something or get out and it being 20 seconds that that is ridiculous. It is so ridiculous Like it needs to be changed. It's a it has to go down. It has to go down Yeah, he'd be the best character in game like strato he'd be the best character

Coach Mills (01:14:09.897)
Hear me out, me out. What if it got two charges? They changed its damage a little bit? No, you would have to... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Captain Coach (01:14:10.495)
I, please, I wait.

Samito (01:14:11.866)
That's so unintuitive as a cooldown.

Captain Coach (01:14:17.268)
Nah, nah, no Miles, no. No, no, no, no, no.

Samito (01:14:25.508)
You have to nerf the damage of it.

Captain Coach (01:14:26.382)
No. No, we don't need more CC like that in the game. Last time I was against Mike, he got me off a ledge with that ability. I don't need to double bump. One is enough.

Mike (01:14:33.046)
Yeah,

Coach Mills (01:14:38.519)
Well, I think that that's the thing about Torch could be so much greater if he had more playmaking chances. Like Mike's saying, he has a playmaking chance once every 20 seconds. And then the rest of the game, he's like AOE spammer, space denier, not making a play. But if you could make two plays a fight instead of one play a fight, that might be cool.

Mike (01:14:45.731)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike (01:14:49.656)
Yeah.

Yeah, just doing nothing. Yeah, literally doing nothing.

Yeah, think that'd be a good change and he relies heavily on how much he'll see guys So I think he needs a survivability like ASAP because you know captain every time I play against captain coach He's coming in there and like every two seconds like every two seconds I see captain coach Every two seconds captain coach is coming out there and then there's an Angela and then there's like a Phoenix and then there's like this that that he needs something for survivability like ASAP

Coach Mills (01:15:10.711)
Hahahaha!

Captain Coach (01:15:10.926)
Remember this?

Samito (01:15:15.555)
You

Captain Coach (01:15:19.214)
Coach Mills (01:15:22.058)
Yeah, yeah, and I And I went I went I went into detail about that game that we played we queued into each other and this enemy select was like hard rage hacking like hard No, like no it was like bad bad

Captain Coach (01:15:23.146)
I ain't even going for you to win, it's just spite. I'm just trying to get the clip.

Mike (01:15:34.204)
yeah dude I saw that. There's a lot of cheaters dude. There's so many cheaters in throwers in the season. It's so bad.

Captain Coach (01:15:35.032)
that's right.

Coach Mills (01:15:40.147)
Yeah, they definitely need to fix the cheater problem like ASAP. Can they IP ban people? Like does that actually work?

Captain Coach (01:15:40.344)
We

Samito (01:15:42.18)
The throwing is really annoying.

Mike (01:15:43.939)
Yes.

Samito (01:15:47.578)
Dude, could hardware ban people if you wanted to, like...

Coach Mills (01:15:50.689)
I feel like they're just slapping people on the wrist too much, in general. throwing, if there's throwing in those video evidence of throwing...

Mike (01:15:53.505)
Yeah...

Samito (01:15:56.131)
I mean, they did send a C and D. well, I can't say the rest on stream, but let's just say it didn't like they're cracking down and it's just, might not be frontal, you know, but like, if you piss them off enough, they are not going to fuck around is the thing. I'll say that.

Mike (01:15:59.746)
What? Yeah, it was like for money.

Really?

Mike (01:16:10.336)
Yeah. Yeah, there's like a lot of throwers in my games. I don't know if it's just this season, but there's been...

Coach Mills (01:16:11.213)
Okay.

Coach Mills (01:16:16.266)
It's just you bro, I dropped like 500 on the website for you and that, you know, I'm just kidding.

Mike (01:16:21.451)
But like in general I just feel like the games this season there's been so many people if somebody makes a mistake they just run the game down I don't know if it's happened to you guys too, but it's crazy, dude. I get it. It tells me

Captain Coach (01:16:29.824)
100%. It's way more... I have a theory. I think it's just a lot of casuals have come back because of the changes and it's like a lot of people who are not just like checked in mentally, like they don't care as much. I might be wrong. That's just kind of my take. I do feel like this patch has brought a lot of people back, but curious to hear your guys' thoughts. Do we think that... I mean, I...

Mike (01:16:50.275)
Yeah.

Samito (01:16:52.078)
Yeah, a hundred percent it did. This was a great package. It's the best packs they've done. Best one they've done hands down.

Mike (01:16:53.763)
Mm.

Mike (01:16:57.632)
I agree. Yeah. There's so many doors, yes.

Coach Mills (01:16:57.665)
I mean, yeah, it's it definitely exposed some problems. Like it definitely has exposed problems in the game. Throwers, know, people that are cheating or people that maybe are boosted or just like they're not adjusting to the changes. But it has to happen. know, we, you know, two steps forward, one step back. It's just like progress, but it's the right direction. I think like we all agree that it's like things are better.

Captain Coach (01:16:58.36)
There are a lot more throwers, like I feel like.

Mike (01:17:17.795)
Yeah.

Samito (01:17:18.286)
Don't for sure. Well, this is, this is why the game was successful is like this, the genre people forget how stale and dead the hero shooter genre was for a decade. Overwatch was the only successful one with this type of formatting in 10 years. And rivals came in because they were aggressive. They were willing to swing the bat.

Mike (01:17:27.438)
Yeah, dude.

Samito (01:17:39.364)
And they hit a grand slam. like the idea that they shouldn't be aggressive with these, which is why it was so frustrating to me that it took them seven seasons to nerf the old build rate. Like, and that was the best thing that they've done for opening up the cast a ton. So honestly, to, to, guess, wrap this up about like what I would see net, what I want to see next is rivals or Z or Ziyang anybody. If you see this, I was the first person, I might've been the first person in this game to say nerf the old build rates. You want to know what you do yet next?

Mike (01:17:53.956)
Hmm.

Coach Mills (01:18:03.939)
Yeah.

Samito (01:18:08.699)
Nerf ult duration. All you can do it across the board, like maybe by 10%, 20 % nerf. If you have to nerf Punisher ult by one or two seconds, Iron Fist ult by one or two seconds, but particularly the support ults by one or two seconds. that kiting out of ults becomes a viable option. Dude, you're looking at a very fun game. And then to follow that up.

Mike (01:18:12.344)
Yeah.

Samito (01:18:29.921)
nerf some of those insane sustain cooldowns that are both on tanks and supports and if you want to compensate with some damage as well on DPS, you can but if you create meaningful downtime and make taking damage matter, your game is gonna get blown wide open and like yeah some people are gonna feed and be like this sucks. No, you were inflated because the game is designed to be engagement. We're gonna learn really soon if...

Mike (01:18:34.595)
Mm.

Samito (01:18:54.041)
They want rivals to be a serious game with an in-depth gameplay loop, or if it's just going to be constant, Hey, we're just going for engagement. We're going for engagement, which honestly, I don't know what the right answer is guys. I'm not going to sit here and say my way is the right way. matter what is the right way, because what they're doing with new hero releases works. I'd love to see that, but Catholic coaches sighing already. What do you, what's, what's, let's hear it. Let's hear it.

Captain Coach (01:19:14.774)
No, I'm just thinking of like what the pro scene could be. mean, like I think the biggest thing that keeps people engaged, like what you're saying is having a ceiling to strive towards that feels unobtainable. Like when you watch the best players. Yeah.

Mike (01:19:25.55)
Mm.

Samito (01:19:25.563)
Yeah. And that's a casual game too. To add in real quick, I just wanted to say this. It's not mutually exclusive. So many people say, oh, it's a casual game. Why should they balance for the pros? Casuals enjoy learning curves too. Casuals don't enjoy ults up every 10 to 15 seconds. My boys who never played the game, who are career plat players noticed it and don't want to play. Opening the game up and opening a learning curve is good for everyone. Back to you. Sorry. just want to hone that. Hold on to that.

Mike (01:19:37.763)
Hmm.

Captain Coach (01:19:38.712)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:19:51.148)
Yeah, I I just I remember just looking at people like like Faker and like some of my favorite streamers playing League and just got me into the game and made me want to because at that time I was I was always been a gamer, but like more into sports. And I kind of made the leap, you know, in my like early 20s. And I just like never stopped. Like and it was just because I was seeing something like, my. And that's like such a cool strategy. want to go think of my own thing like that. I feel like with that.

Mike (01:19:51.736)
That was a good take.

Captain Coach (01:20:18.61)
like more of a neutral and let more of a focus on like skill and less sustain and stuff. You're gonna see the game. I mean, I totally agree with you. It's just gonna flourish and I think it's gonna attract more people. As long as they keep some of the characters that I think are easy to play. I think you still need that. Like, yeah, like rocket, you know, thing.

Samito (01:20:33.147)
100%. Yeah, you can have that, I think. I think you can.

Samito (01:20:41.157)
Just take the rez beacon out and that's a start. Like make it a damage amp. It would be so much more dynamic. He'd fit into way more comps. Like it would be way cooler in my opinion. Yeah. A hundred percent.

Mike (01:20:47.972)
Mm.

Coach Mills (01:20:49.527)
Yeah, these characters still get value at their skill floor. Like, even if you only heal on Mantis and then ult, you're fine in Bronze. You're fine. You're not gonna lose game. You'll be alright. But anyways, alright, is there any closing thoughts, anything you want to talk about, anything that you want to see? I know that we kind of left it off on a good note, and I'm personally really happy about...

Mike (01:21:01.976)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:21:16.269)
You know, the state of the game, at least compared to the last like four seasons and the future of the game, I'm really optimistic because, you know, I hope these devs double down. I hope they triple down. think that overall people have been happy and I think that that shows that they might get like, we could do more. We can add more. We can take more away. We can nerf ults by more.

Mike (01:21:20.226)
Hmm.

Captain Coach (01:21:32.942)
Changes that were said by people on this podcast, Samito being one of them. you know, leave a comment too and let your voice be heard for like directing these types of conversations too. Cause they do listen, which is crazy. I mean, they do. And it's...

Coach Mills (01:21:47.959)
Yeah, Blizzard never fucking listened. I'm sorry, I know you're high on Overwatch, but Blizzard never listened to a goddamn person. They never listened to anybody. They didn't give a single fuck about what anyone said. Ever.

Samito (01:21:50.191)
They didn't. They didn't. They didn't. They didn't. They didn't.

Captain Coach (01:21:52.29)
This is rare for a company, this much.

Mike (01:21:54.67)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:21:58.712)
Cause I saw a lot of negativity for the initial season seven changes and I was genuinely so surprised by it. I mean, obviously they made that little correction with the cap shield and if you would like the gambit all nerf duration, they may remember it because they had that extra double patch. I would just like my advice just like looking forward is like, Hey, we saw that these types of conversations and, and you know,

Coach Mills (01:22:13.879)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:22:25.228)
trying to communicate with the devs does actually work. I mean, that should be very motivating for people moving forward. Also, I wanted to get your guys' for the changes on WhiteFox and Elsa before we go. Is the Elsa nerf enough? Is WhiteFox OP?

Mike (01:22:41.036)
No, no, dude, Elsa's so OP. Dude, Elsa's still broke in his.

Coach Mills (01:22:41.273)
No, no, it's absolutely is fucking not Yeah, yeah, how what what tier did what's your to Jean Grey move when they changed her from 275 to 250 because they did that exact same change like a fucking month ago and it's a nothing Okay. Anyways

Captain Coach (01:22:45.228)
Okay, else is still OP even at 250 HP and White Fox is White Fox OP now.

Mike (01:22:48.42)
Yes, yes, yes.

Mike (01:22:53.847)
Yeah

Samito (01:22:57.615)
Jean does so much, bro. She's like the most cracked poke hero I've ever seen. Like seriously, she's like...

Mike (01:22:58.244)
Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:23:01.678)
We we didn't talk about poke either which I did kind of want to get your guys's take on that too just

Samito (01:23:06.235)
I actually think, I think this game's issues are not poke, dive or whatever. Like, I know everyone says poke slop or dive slop, but that's where everyone's focused. But like to me, like we have not seen the real game yet at all.

Like the re this game is real game has not been like we are peeling back layers of the onion and we are only at the outside and like at its core, bro. We still don't know what this game is because the old, like they finally turned the old back. like we're at a point where we can start to see it. If they can do the same with sustain, I think the real game is going to open up and I have no idea what it looks like, but I would love to see it. I really would. I don't know if it'll ever happen, but I would love to see that.

Captain Coach (01:23:20.686)
Hmm.

Captain Coach (01:23:45.932)
You and Aramori opinions are very different because she thinks, I think she's one of the people we've had on who actually kind of likes how the neutral is and how you have to really kind of like work for a kill with some of the more.

Coach Mills (01:23:57.837)
I mean, in pro play, she has a pro play mindset, right? And it's very different when it's your entire team is working to bait out certain pieces of sustain, and then they're working in the tiny windows in between to capitalize on that lack of sustain. That's just not realistic for ranked. When sustain's so powerful, I think it's just a completely different.

Samito (01:24:16.846)
Yeah. Well, and like, don't, I don't have a problem with that per se. I would just like those windows to be a little bit wider than what they are right now. I think that's kind of what I'm asking for is like, I understand those windows, but I think to add onto Mills' point, I think he's right. Like if those windows needs to be a little bit more individual, individualistically wider. So I think that would open up the game.

Captain Coach (01:24:35.704)
That's very realistic too. think that's something they would do too. I do think that that's realistic.

Samito (01:24:40.057)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:24:41.433)
What is, what's CND's bubble cooldown on?

Mike (01:24:44.228)
Uh, it's like six seconds. Well, it's 12, but the bubble is six seconds long. So it's like

Coach Mills (01:24:46.433)
No, let me, me, let

Captain Coach (01:24:49.304)
I don't think a DPS, a 250 DPS.

Samito (01:24:50.97)
Like how is that in the game?

Mike (01:24:52.189)
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like, it's...

Coach Mills (01:24:52.268)
Well, well, I guess I will I'm just think I'm just thinking your slam is at 20 seconds. Your slam is at 20 seconds. Like, why the fuck is yours at 20 seconds? Like, I'm just thinking about that, like, wait, why? Like, by the time you get your next slam, you get she has another bubble. It's like, what like you slammed up like what? So you're just they want you to bait it out just in the neutral, just sitting around doing nothing, just spamming down.

Mike (01:24:56.708)
Yeah, is that 20 seconds, dude? Is that 20 seconds? Yeah, I know.

Samito (01:24:57.998)
Guys, guys, my iron fist block, like whenever cloak would iron, like, like, like try to like, it's insane. Like cloak and dagger is insane.

Captain Coach (01:24:58.925)
Haha.

Captain Coach (01:25:08.494)
Yeah.

Mike (01:25:10.028)
Yeah, they have two bubbles by the time I get one singular slam,

Captain Coach (01:25:17.816)
I think that like, more specifically, kind of build on Sumito's point, I don't think a 250 DPS should ever be able to be kept up by two healers if their positioning is bad. And currently you can kind of just like frontline on a lot of DPS heroes, feel like. I personally view that as an issue. And I feel like that, right, right.

Coach Mills (01:25:23.737)
You

Mike (01:25:32.054)
I agree with that. I completely agree with that.

Samito (01:25:41.37)
You can front line on everything. You can front line on everything in the game.

Coach Mills (01:25:43.129)
And then and then and then I'm not gonna lie there's a lot of players that expect that level of I can stand here and just fucking take damage and and yeah Like I swear to fuck Bucky's are just standing front line like they're like

Captain Coach (01:25:50.974)
That used to be me, I play Punisher like a tank. I've gotten better at him, don't worry.

Samito (01:25:51.727)
Yeah. Like the, the, the, the one thing that like, what scares me guys, what scares me, do you want to know a big reason why I stopped playing the game as much? I became a much worse player. I developed really bad habits.

Mike (01:25:54.5)
You

Mike (01:25:59.803)
yeah.

Mike (01:26:04.42)
What's up?

Samito (01:26:08.0)
I developed really bad habits and like, it took me like a month or so. now I'm at my PI. I'm like hit champ. I'm all, I lost my champ two game, bro. was so mad. Like, and then I, I flamed somebody. I was like, my DPS are not shooting the high-needing jet pack at somebody in chat type. I see why people say you're insufferable. I'm like, sweetheart, you are one in fucking seven on my team right now. Do not talk to me. My champ two game. God damn it. But like, like I became worse and like, that's like, it scares me to play that. But like at the same time, like this is where I truly am struggling. And I think the.

Captain Coach (01:26:08.3)
I know someone like that too.

Samito (01:26:37.884)
comments will get this is like, this might be apples to oranges. We're like, this game is meant to be that lower skill game. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's like, dude, sometimes I want to go get a Big Mac from McDonald's and other times I want to steak from a steak house. And like, there's nothing wrong with that. It's preference. Yeah. Yeah. But I love a Big Mac, bro. Buy one, get one free. Give me, give me, is the ice cream machine working?

Coach Mills (01:26:51.641)
Well, one of the things I want to hear, I know, Hey, that K-pop collab is coming. I'm sorry. have my daughter wants that. yeah. okay. This is another real quick one, Sam, because I'm curious your take on it. One of the things I thought is so hitscan has always been pretty strong in Overwatch as well. But one of the big differences in my mind

Captain Coach (01:26:54.56)
right rivals is mcdonald's right

Mike (01:26:57.427)
Hahaha

Captain Coach (01:27:03.95)
Is that ice cream machine Shinjibuya because it's always lagging?

Samito (01:27:05.272)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Samito (01:27:18.094)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:27:21.779)
is the presence of D.Va. Rivals does not have a D.Va. A character that actually punishes out of position hitscans. But the thing is like, I know D.Va has been grossly broken the entire lifetime. she actually is. But like that concept of a character, like a tank that can keep hitscans in check. Like, I like.

Samito (01:27:23.641)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Samito (01:27:30.882)
Yeah. You, she's actually pretty balanced in the 66. She's actually fine. She's been a lot, she's been, she's been a lot for bashing. Yeah. It couldn't exist in rivals. You can't because you couldn't kill them on the angle. There's no death threat. Like, like, like, no, no, they'd live like, like, like, again, this is what I mean. Like,

Coach Mills (01:27:45.721)
Yeah, they just live.

Samito (01:27:50.895)
The game becomes so different if you actually get punished for going on a position and rapping and like it becomes chess like there's there's so much to it that could be unlocked here that like a Diva character could unlock like and have that but like it does like imagine if like a Phoenix flank top right and you have a Hulk and she goes a little too far and if you jump on her as Hulk you could actually kill her

Captain Coach (01:28:01.89)
Yeah.

Samito (01:28:14.114)
Like, the game is so different and like it's so much more about how you play rather than what you pick and that's my favorite part about this ult change. The game, the first layer of the onion to opening this game up was the ults in that if your ult was not a strong ult, you weren't mag or you weren't like whatever to kill this ult.

Mike (01:28:17.497)
you

Samito (01:28:32.056)
Like the Jeffs, like you said, Mikey, they don't work. Like it's so hard to get value on the character, but now that the Ults are less frequent, they're not always the win con. Look at how many characters were able to say, yo, okay. I'm not permanently scissors against rock. Like now it's so much more open and like, that's the first layer of the onion. The next is like, okay, can things actually die in a meaningful way? And if they die, they won't get rocket res be can across the map. You know, like that's kind of a, that's.

Mike (01:28:35.449)
Yeah.

Mike (01:28:44.878)
Yeah.

Mike (01:28:55.256)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:28:59.417)
You

Captain Coach (01:28:59.79)
Does this sound good to you, Mike? Cause you're a younger guy. People like me and Mills and Sumito probably grew up on Counter-Strike, COD, the old COD, not the modern warfare.

Samito (01:29:05.22)
We're old.

Coach Mills (01:29:05.869)
We're really fucking jaded, dude, comparatively.

Mike (01:29:08.141)
What?

Mike (01:29:12.13)
Yeah, I played Overwatch since beta 2, so I like, like I'm a Yeah, yeah, I was like, I was like, hey, I've been playing hero shooters ever since the beta I played on Xbox and stuff. So like I've been on Overwatch. I was I was a was a Genji player, wrecking ball player. You know what saying?

Captain Coach (01:29:15.31)
Okay.

Coach Mills (01:29:15.369)
when you were like six? Like, how old were you?

Samito (01:29:18.158)
Yeah.

Samito (01:29:23.482)
You got it then.

Coach Mills (01:29:25.207)
Let's fucking go. Let's go. Wait, Genji! Let's go! Wait, this is the Genji pod, bro. Holy shit. I have like fucking 5,000 hours on Genji, bro!

Captain Coach (01:29:28.078)
Ohhhh

Mike (01:29:32.96)
Wait, you play Genji too? Nah, that's crazy. That's insane, dude. That's crazy.

Samito (01:29:37.754)
He tries, bro, don't let him sell you.

Captain Coach (01:29:41.494)
I was a rat. I was a junk rat.

Coach Mills (01:29:42.569)
I that that legit when I came to rivals I'm like I'm not gonna fucking pick up the the BP character like the Genji like characters because I know how historically Genji was treated in overwatch like he's a character that people bitched about to him getting nerfed like and becoming really weak so I didn't want to pick up those characters in rivals because I did the same fucking thing was gonna happen I was like I'm just gonna pick up this fucking Bucky character this mad character because I know these characters have just been they always these type of characters are allowed to stay broken that that's how it was in overwatch

Samito (01:29:43.726)
Jay Silly, baby.

Mike (01:29:56.43)
Literally. Yeah, literally.

Samito (01:29:58.426)
That's why I play no more.

Mike (01:30:02.36)
as they do.

Mike (01:30:09.764)
Yeah, literally.

Coach Mills (01:30:10.765)
Like the fuck it, like I just kinda know how these things go. People just hate dive characters. They hate high skill dive characters always. Like people freak the fuck out about a Genji killing people in the back line. Even if you outplay them, like they lose their fucking minds. that's kinda why I'm never picking up those kind of characters. Like I'm just not doing it. Yeah, you're one and one. But look what happened! Look what happened! It's the same thing that happened to Genji. I'm telling you, it's the same thing. They do it every time. It's because people bitch about dying.

Mike (01:30:26.404)
Went straight to BP there. I went straight to that character that can she's doing fine Yeah, he's so bad. No dirty. Yeah

Captain Coach (01:30:29.282)
You

Coach Mills (01:30:40.691)
Even if they get outplayed like like like that's it they do they bitch about dying even they get outplayed

Mike (01:30:42.478)
Yeah, literally dude, literally.

Captain Coach (01:30:43.63)
I'm telling you it 10 years ago 15 years ago. I Gaming was a lot less soft. I will say Supports used to be free kills Mike like in older games and like wow and league and stuff like games with like the Trinity of tank DPS healer like support was out of position insta dead instant like you can't mess but

Coach Mills (01:30:55.673)
I don't even doubt it.

Mike (01:31:02.318)
Yeah.

Samito (01:31:07.182)
Well, you know why that's changed.

Captain Coach (01:31:11.854)
You know, they brought other things like utility and yada yada yada.

Samito (01:31:14.286)
They sell the skins bro, that's why they're strong now. mean...

Mike (01:31:17.292)
Literally, yeah, exactly. He's not wrong at all. Literally.

Captain Coach (01:31:17.73)
It is

Coach Mills (01:31:18.649)
Oh god, we're cooked.

Samito (01:31:19.61)
No, I'm not it's not even me trying to rage bait or start like they sell the most skins like support players Like if I like it look go look at overwatch as well as another example of the rivals like how many invis skins you think sold guys in a fucking bikini with her like our Jeff skins like anything like they sell the most skins There are more buyers there. So like they if those players aren't getting the engagement from the game They're not selling skins and it's a for-profit company. They're trying to make money. So like this is the balance right? This is where like

Captain Coach (01:31:20.268)
It has been-

Mike (01:31:23.48)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:31:46.55)
Usain.

Coach Mills (01:31:46.777)
As the weird thing is here. I'm a it is not really devil's advocate, but I'm gonna I'm gonna say this I feel like support players Love the games more than the other roles. They love the games more like like they actually like they're willing to spend the money on it They like to show out their little costumes like they actually they like blindly love the game as opposed to us that are kind of we're a little hesitantly liking the game like we'll fucking tolerate this bullshit, but

Captain Coach (01:32:03.694)
Hmm.

Mike (01:32:13.702)
Yeah.

Samito (01:32:14.254)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:32:14.721)
You know, like we'll put in the hours. Like we love to hate the game. Like we love to hate the game, but we love the game too somewhat. like, I feel like a lot of support players just love, they just love, they just love the game. You know, they, you know.

Samito (01:32:17.07)
And they do love the game. Yeah.

Samito (01:32:24.78)
Yeah, and you know what? Honestly, like dude, maybe like we're the tails of the coin and like we're actually like in the straight jackets. Like maybe the support players should like just log on, like look cute in that skin and just have a good day. And we're out here playing Panthalos shit, like fucking flaming our, what the fuck? Meanwhile.

Coach Mills (01:32:32.075)
Hehehehe. Hehehehe. Hehehehe.

Mike (01:32:35.32)
You

Coach Mills (01:32:39.543)
We're the ones pissed. That's what I'm saying. Like we're the ones pissed off all the time and they're having a great time.

Samito (01:32:42.098)
I know where the jokes on us, bro. Listen, guys, it's not too late. We can convert. I've been, I win one tricking Juno and I hit champ four today and all the Junos have been, go look at my Twitter profile right now. Mills. You'll see it, bro. My, I changed my banner for the first time. Yeah. Pull, pull that shit up, bro. Pull that shit up. You're going to, it's a peak at it. Listen, and then read my bio. I'm converting guys. You're going to lose me for good. I'm going to come back as C and D player.

Coach Mills (01:32:55.056)
yeah? Yeah, jet four? shit! I'm gonna look at that shit right now.

Mike (01:33:06.756)
nah.

Coach Mills (01:33:06.773)
Ha ha ha rank rank one now. That's what I want to see Mikey I want to see fucking rank one Mikey fucking on C &D or some shit make us make a state make a statement though make a statement I see that shit. I see wait. Let me share this shit

Captain Coach (01:33:14.552)
Bro, that would be fun.

Mike (01:33:15.502)
Dude, I could never, I could never, dude.

Samito (01:33:18.426)
Should I do that shit?

gosh.

Yo coach, I brought the stash back just for you. Oh, that's oh like that shit, but but that's it and look at the banner look at the banner I'm on Mars I'm a Martian Yes, hey listen, dude, I want to ask you what what the hell happened that Crosby trade, man

Coach Mills (01:33:27.274)
shit, wait, no, it's not his

Captain Coach (01:33:27.554)
I was gonna say we all have mustaches.

Coach Mills (01:33:33.785)
I fucking love that shit bro. my god, bro.

Captain Coach (01:33:34.574)
Wow.

Mike (01:33:35.812)
Wow.

Captain Coach (01:33:39.297)
wow. Got that Cincinnati orange.

Mike (01:33:40.973)
You

Captain Coach (01:33:48.402)
Ravens Raven organization just shady as hell apparently they have such a good reputation, but Yeah, I think that I think part of talk a little football here for anyone who doesn't know Yeah, so basically what happened was the the Ravens they basically signed up traded for a really high profile player that is backed out of the

Samito (01:33:50.272)
Yeah

That's tough, dude.

Coach Mills (01:34:09.667)
cause it was like injury, right? Like, like there was like some type of medical medical. Yeah. Something similar happened in the NBA recently with like a, yeah, like a trade that got rescinded, but like, like the Lakers tried to trade one of their players for another. And then they got, it got rescinded and the player has just like, he's like, he thought he can't play the game anymore because I guess he's sad that they tried to trade him. Like I lost his skill. don't know.

Mike (01:34:10.084)
Wow.

Samito (01:34:11.713)
He failed his physical apparently, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:34:14.614)
it's very

Captain Coach (01:34:28.748)
Well, it's funny that your guys are talking about the rivals drama early. Like that's a lot, like a big reason why people watch it like football too is the football drama going on. Cause it's like, I mean, this happened like over two weeks ago now and there's still like he said, we said type content going out. actually have, people love it.

Mike (01:34:39.204)
you

Coach Mills (01:34:46.617)
Just draw a drama, 24-7 drama. That's the good shit. That's the good shit, right?

Captain Coach (01:34:51.214)
I got a buddy, he's a league streamer, and he said he follows Marvel Rivals just to keep up with the drama. He says he loves it, which is...

Samito (01:34:56.848)
Hey.

Coach Mills (01:34:57.631)
Heheheh, Mikey when's your next drama bro? When's your next drama Mikey? Okay, okay good good

Mike (01:34:57.796)
I'll plan one. I'll plan one soon. If Torch gets a bad chain, there's drama. Torch gets a bad chain, there's drama. I'm setting it up.

Captain Coach (01:35:05.122)
Samito (01:35:06.968)
Don't worry boys. Listen to that.

Coach Mills (01:35:07.56)
this job, this job!

Captain Coach (01:35:08.098)
That's right. That's right, I saw that with, Well, you we don't need say. It's up to... Up to you, man, if you wanna talk about it.

Coach Mills (01:35:15.002)
Yeah. I don't know. He said...

Mike (01:35:16.804)
No, I'm okay. I'm alright, I'm alright.

Samito (01:35:17.92)
Yeah, yeah. Hey listen guys. I got this on lock I'll come back and I'll flame some support player and I'm gonna say I'm gonna say some shit Listen, here's the here's the art of flaming. You can't say some generic shit or like a slur or something like that No, no, no, you got to say some shit that no one's ever heard before. Okay, that's the art of it right there like

Coach Mills (01:35:22.635)
No, okay.

Captain Coach (01:35:23.438)
Uhhh

Captain Coach (01:35:34.259)
yeah, I that's I'd pride by I try my best. It's very hard sometimes

Coach Mills (01:35:34.325)
Okay, okay. I wanna see Mikey crash out on someone. I don't think you crash out all that often, like at all. You're too chill.

Mike (01:35:34.562)
Yeah.

Mike (01:35:42.478)
Dude, I like can't because it's happened. Dude, so many people just throw my games. I just let it happen. Now I don't even care. You throw my games,

Coach Mills (01:35:48.083)
Yeah, my man's numb to that shit.

Captain Coach (01:35:48.288)
Wow, that's depression, you're giving up, that's apathy.

Mike (01:35:52.484)
Like like Like it's cuz if I if I say something they're just gonna run the game down like as it was the point at that point I just like blast music All right, bro. You're gonna throw you're gonna throw nice, dude great

Coach Mills (01:35:57.604)
my f-

Captain Coach (01:36:00.002)
That's your-

Samito (01:36:02.202)
As for as, listen, that's right on site. You have to have an on site character in every game. What's your, what's your, what's your own site character?

Captain Coach (01:36:04.75)
and

Coach Mills (01:36:08.149)
Yeah, you on site though I Mean it's it's always BP because I have fun even losing on that character. Okay,

Captain Coach (01:36:15.31)
I first timed Iron Man today. That was fun. Hey, I was just farming. I just flew. mean, the game was just like a good guy. was just GG's. We were 06, 07. So I'm just like, I'll just farm some performance points. Went up in a corner where no one was looking. Just shot my primary down. I had like 20k damage. I'm like, all right.

Mike (01:36:17.4)
Hahaha

Samito (01:36:17.53)
He came in butt naked Iron Man, that's crazy

Mike (01:36:29.582)
Yeah.

Samito (01:36:36.762)
Dude, I'm dude beta Iron Man was so good with gamma. I was destroying on Iron Man man. Like if they could god, he was so fun Yeah, know yeah You're like you're like brothers. No way this game is good. I was like I was like bro. I'm telling you

Coach Mills (01:36:37.269)
That's good

Mike (01:36:38.456)
Hahaha

Mike (01:36:44.836)
That shit was disgusting. That shit was OP.

Coach Mills (01:36:46.113)
I remember, cause you convinced me to play Rivals, Samido, with one of your early videos and they were like, I was like, was like, projectile here. No, yeah, when that game was first announced, cause I could have gotten the alpha, I could have got in it, but I was like, I don't know, dude, this game kind of looks like ass. But then Samido made a video like hyping it up. I was like, all right, I'll give it a try. I played in the beta and I was like.

Captain Coach (01:36:55.95)
You

Coach Mills (01:37:08.921)
I made a meeting with my editor, hey we need to make some videos ASAP this game is gonna be the next big thing like we need to log the fuck in yeah yeah

Samito (01:37:12.282)
Big thing. And dude, everyone doubted us. Everyone doubted us. Shitty mobile Overwatch clone, like, you all this stuff. I was like, guys, the gameplay loop is there, man.

Coach Mills (01:37:20.641)
No. It's like you just had to play it. Like the second you played it, you were just like, this game is the fucking truth. Like, yeah.

Samito (01:37:25.11)
Yeah, and the music, the soundtracks, and to this day I'm like, I really feel bad for the comment. Like, I'm not trying to just hate on this game. I'm sorry if it comes off that way, but like, from an artistic standpoint, this game is so brilliant. It has so... I... It genuinely has... It's the first game that has as much potential as Overwatch 1. I really hope it gets there. I really do. I'm rooting for this game, man.

Coach Mills (01:37:43.737)
Cause I don't know if you saw Sumito, they're doing like a timeline where they're going through all the movies. So like they're gonna hit the infinity war, they're going in order all the way to doomsday. And I think they're probably gonna have, they're probably gonna line up like a Thanos release with the infinity, the end game movie. And then they're gonna line up like a doom, like imagine a doom like playable character in rivals at the same time the doom movie drops and there's a map that's tailored to the movie like.

Samito (01:37:52.218)
It's awesome.

Mike (01:37:52.856)
I didn't even know that. I didn't even know that.

Samito (01:37:57.499)
It's gonna be insane. It'll be amazing, bro. It'll be amazing.

Mike (01:37:57.956)
No, that shit would be so tough. That shit would be so tough. That shit would be so tough.

Samito (01:38:08.282)
It'd be insane. It'd be insane. It could be one of the biggest, like, because from Pop Cole, I mean, look at The Witcher, look at like all this, like all the Cyberpunk, all the games that have done this, but they're doing it with fucking Marvel, bro. Like, GG. Like, GG, boys.

Coach Mills (01:38:19.211)
Yeah, no, it would be it would be fucking so insane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Mike (01:38:19.492)
I know dude, I know it's fucking insane, it's so crazy. Like, like let's say, like if the game ever gets bad, boom, you just add Thanos, boom, you just add like fuck, you add Silver Surfer. It's like...

Captain Coach (01:38:20.664)
Mm-hmm.

Samito (01:38:27.062)
Exactly. It doesn't matter. literally doesn't matter.

Captain Coach (01:38:27.63)
Thanos snaps half the support out of the game, right?

Coach Mills (01:38:28.217)
Give us a skin for going to go see the movie. I wanna be sick. But alright, Mikey, where can people find you? Where can people come support you? What are you doing these days on stream?

Samito (01:38:31.925)
nature

Mike (01:38:40.856)
I stream every day. I make a video every single day. You can stream live at Twitch. That's E4 says mics above you. I love Marble Rivals. I love GuaGuaN. I love Zyong. I love everybody that plays this game and yeah, I think it's great.

Coach Mills (01:38:47.659)
Let's go. Let's go. Get this man. Get this man a contract. Let's fucking go. Where can people support you these? Where can people see you? Like, what's your schedule? When you going to be playing Sumito? What's?

Samito (01:38:57.026)
Hey, Zeong, we've got beef until the Iron Fist rework gets reworked. Real shit, bro. Like, fix the game.

Captain Coach (01:39:01.352)
man.

Samito (01:39:10.234)
All right, next time, hey, let's hit the duo soon, Mills. I'll install for you, bro.

Coach Mills (01:39:13.631)
I'm down. I'm down with the uncombo the group moon night. Let's go. I'm down

Samito (01:39:14.906)
I got this shit back. I'm trying to get back. Listen, like these people, I just needed a break, man. Like I had people trying to tell me, like nothing made, like no offense guys, like I'm a grumpy grandpa. Okay. I'm unk. I literally have gray hairs. I can pull off the stash. I have sat here and committed my whole life to hero shooters. I know how to take angles. I know how to play. If one more player who clearly doesn't know tries to tell me how to play the game, I am going to be the old man yelling at clouds. I am. Okay. But.

Coach Mills (01:39:26.382)
Hehehehehe

Captain Coach (01:39:40.45)
They just don't know. They don't know.

Samito (01:39:41.242)
Yeah, they just, don't know. They don't know what they know. Mills, let's hit it this week. Then we get the three stack boys. He's probably, Mike's probably too high ranked. Oh, I'm like, what's, what's top five under right now? I'm like C3. I don't even know if that's high rank. Okay. Well, what to do out then? I'll just abuse. I, when I tell you guys I legit did not get shot at for three games and I'm sitting there like, Oh my God, they're not shooting at me. I see three supports trying to desperately heal each other. One looks back at me, just walks back to the team. I'm just like, whoosh.

Coach Mills (01:39:41.817)
No, I'm down. I'm down. Yeah, let's do it.

Mike (01:39:42.008)
Hahaha

Coach Mills (01:39:49.891)
Well, you can't even three stack anymore in Z and Celesto anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm done. Yeah.

Mike (01:39:52.024)
Bye bye, you can't throw a sack yet.

Coach Mills (01:39:58.295)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Samito (01:40:09.27)
But I'm excited for the new PC. hope it helps. yeah, listen, I'll be, I'll let you guys know when I'm on rivals soon, but I'm just like at some media on Twitter, ask me to FPS and then, yeah, I'll be back on at some point. We'll be grinding.

Coach Mills (01:40:18.883)
Hell yeah, hell yeah. Well thank you guys so much for coming on. This has been fucking lit. I'm excited. Excited for the future of the game. Pretty optimistic, but we'll see. But anyways, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Peace, peace.

Mike (01:40:21.038)
Dude.

Captain Coach (01:40:22.604)
Man fun episode

Mike (01:40:25.102)
Yeah.

Samito (01:40:28.495)
Alright boys. Y'all take care. Peace out y'all. See ya.

Mike (01:40:31.044)
I appreciate you. Thank you so much.