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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
Subscribe now for weekly episodes that celebrate the unpredictable, the playful, and the deeply human side of making things. Join the mailing list at mischiefpod.com
Email anytime at podcast@ohhmaybe.com and follow us @mischiefpod
Mishu Hilmy (00:03.222)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life and that steady and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big, bold,
risky moves. So if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hey everyone, it's Mishu. Glad to have you here. Today we are talking to Madeleine Weirda, a Chicago based actress who is extensively trained in theater and film. She's currently getting her BFA at Columbia College Chicago and has trained around the country.
playing lead roles in a variety of award-winning shorts, as well as starring in plays and commercials. In the episode, we talk about her journey. We chat about, you know, what it's like to transition from acting student to professional work, dealing with auditions, book roles, and just the balance between craft and career building in general. We also get into the importance of prep work, making strong choices in auditions, and also how to maintain a sense of play and confidence on set and doing the work. You can follow her on Instagram at MadelineWeirda.
and I'll add more info in the show notes. So this is me and Maddie having a lovely conversation. Hope you enjoy.
Madelynn Wierda (01:40.905)
I'm a junior at Columbia. Now I'm getting my acting BFA and I've just done a lot of short films and stuff. I was out at Stella Adler Acting Studio in LA over the summer and I was doing the film and TV intensive there and the summer before that I did the summer conservatory. So I was just like continuing with that and I'm more focused on like film and TV more than theater, but I still really love doing theater.
So yeah, just trying to get an agent. I was just getting my materials together and then kind of waiting for like the holidays to pass over because people aren't really checking their emails right now as much. And then once the new year starts, just start submitting and stuff.
So you're still in school in Chicago, but you did a program still at Adler in LA?
Yes, I just like go during the summer.
Have there been principles from that that you've been able to lay over? Like what percentage of it do you find that you're using when it comes to auditioning or being on set or prepping, you know, prepping for the work?
Madelynn Wierda (02:37.39)
I honestly out of all of the training that I've done, I feel like the stuff that I learned from the past two summers is at least like a good like 70 % of what I use. My work ethic really went up because I was in class like 25 hours a week minimum. So my work ethic and just like, you know, like learning about the industry and really just having like focused.
like focus time to like work on my craft and you know figuring out how to like memorize lines quickly and like what works for me and keeping everything in my brain and like not going insane while doing it.
Yeah, yeah, I know I saw like recently maybe maybe like six months ago, like Pedro Pascal's method, which is very common method of like just learning the first letters and like scripting that out and you played around with that.
I've played around with that. Sometimes I'll like kind of like if I am on the train or something and I can't just be like speaking out loud, I'll like write down the first letters to, you know, review lines. But me personally, I just kind of like sit with it and I'll like do like my script analysis first so I know what I'm saying. And then I kind of do voice memo and I just record.
what the other people are saying and because it helps me to be able to hear it.
Mishu Hilmy (04:01.23)
How are you balancing the mix of, this might be a weird question of like determining what process has been working for you and like the level of craft you put into the work, know, like breaking down your script versus say like leaning into the mystery or the intuitiveness or like the gut, you know, using your gut, like where have you been like approaching that line?
So really, I just kind of make sure I do the work beforehand so I'm able to just like play when I'm on set and not really having to think too hard about what line is coming next and like to like not be in a habit, I kind of just like, you know, if I'm running lines, sometimes I'm just doing it while like, you know, cleaning my apartment or making dinner. So I'm not just like.
acting it a certain way all the time. Like obviously I do rehearse it in the way that I kind of imagine I want to do it, but I just kind of play around with different speeds and different scenarios even, especially if it's like an audition where I don't really have the full script to work off of. I'm like, well, what about this choice? What about this choice? So it just like, you know, keeping a variety while I'm rehearsing is always nice. Keep it authentic.
might have been the thought process of spending a little bit more focus on say screen acting versus theater acting? Was there a threshold that you're like, know, I'm going to commit to this? Is it a preference? Like what were some of the doubts or thoughts that were going in your mind to just go, I'm going to commit to this for the next X number of months,
Yeah, think like honestly, it's just, you I love both of them. So it's just who hires me. Like I don't really, I still love both of them. like I just ended up getting cast in more film stuff than I do theater just because I think like my style of acting is a lot more like based in realism and like obviously I can adapt. But you know, like you do more film projects and then people are like, oh, I want you to.
Madelynn Wierda (05:59.65)
do this and this. So yeah, it's just kind of, I'll just, I'll literally do whatever.
That's great. know, like work begets work and you know, it's easier to definitely share your work when it's recorded, right? Like I think one of the challenges of theater acting, maybe in Chicago or New York and even LA is the amount of time it takes. Like you might have a six or an eight week rehearsal process for around like 10 shows that are only happening on certain evenings versus something like, you know, your screen work, you audition, maybe you have a virtual read through, maybe you have a rehearsal, probably not. And then you just show up.
for two to 10 days, long, and that's that.
It's definitely easier for people to see my work like you said.
Yeah. And then in terms of like style, right? Because like realism is a form of style. Do you consciously play around with style when it comes to, screen work? Are you pretty much dedicated to what's most expected or accepted when it comes to, say, screen work?
Madelynn Wierda (06:57.666)
I feel like in like an audition, kind of stay more towards realism. Unless if I always look at the director's work though, and the casting director, because that gives me a good idea of what they want to see and like what kind of stuff they've worked on before. So you know, if it's more like absurdist, obviously I'm not going to go into the audition like do saying lines how I would say it.
So it really just depends and like it just goes back to like, you know, doing my research beforehand and you know, being prepared and knowing what I'm getting myself into.
Yeah, I think it's like really smart because I know there is like a volume of like casting notices that go up, whether it's actors access or backstage. But backstage, you more of a mixed bag, right? Like not always the most professional and it's a mix of theater. So it seems pretty sharp for you to at least go like, want to look at this person's work and then you can see their YouTube and you're like, oh, I don't even know if I want audition for this. It seems pretty sus.
Yeah, it definitely like I wish at the beginning when I was on like the websites and stuff, I wish that I really like looked into the things I was auditioning for because even like, you know, I've done auditions and then realize that it's not for me and I don't want to do it. But, know, I already put the time into the audition.
So, you know, now doing it beforehand, like having that be the first step that I do really helps me save time. And also I like it's easier to book because I know the style of acting that they're looking for.
Mishu Hilmy (08:36.078)
And I you auditioned for a project I did last year and then we chatted afterwards and you were able to help play around with my casting scorecard and like the calibration. you found that, has that altered your approach? know, having had looked at like 150 different auditions, has that changed the way you might enter or approach it?
Yeah, I definitely think like that helped me realize how important choices are and doing things different and like not really doing it. Like obviously do what's on the page, but you know, add your own stuff to it because watching the same thing over and over with like 100 plus people gets really tiring. So just like doing things that are different.
And for like your current audition process, like how much do you consciously determine like risk? Because I think when I think about the 10 years I did like a theater and performing work, I realized like 90 % of my auditions, I never took a risk. So like, do you integrate that? Are you thinking of risks?
When I take a risk in an audition, it's always, I kind of like base it for a reason, even if that reason is something I made up myself and like make it make sense to me. So like the risk is still grounded and it's not just taking a risk for the sake of like what I want to do. So yeah, it's yeah, just keeping it grounded and like sometimes if I don't have access to the full script, like I'll kind of come up with a few things for in my head, like, oh, maybe she,
you know, just broke up with her boyfriend of five years. And that's why she's acting like this now. Because then the risks, if I have like a whole like life for my character that I made for myself, usually the risks come forward without me having to like consciously make that decision. If that makes any sense.
Mishu Hilmy (10:28.992)
Yeah, I think it makes sense if you're, you know, you're coming from a personal place and you're like, you might not have all the details or whatever the context is, you're, you're predicating it based on the world you're imagining or the world you think that exists, rather than something that's like wanton or like, I'm just gonna, you know, say, fuck you to the camera, just because like, think it's ideal if it's adjacent or near the world to like integrate either that sense of mischief, that sense of risk, how much like,
How do you access play when it comes to say self tapes or auditions? Because it's very easy to get in your head, right? Like you read the casting notice, they want, they might give you like really bad descriptions of the characters. And you're like focused on, I just want to do it right. I want to people please the casting director or the director. But how do you, how do you tap into play when it comes to, know, turning on that camera for a self tape?
I think there's a lot of comfort in self-tapes and the fact that you can do it multiple times. So I just try to keep every single time I do it different. I don't really try to worry about being perfect. I would say that's very new for me in the past year or two. Because back to my programs in LA, before that I just like... Because growing up doing musical theater and all of that.
my brain is like, I have to be perfect all the time. know, people aren't perfect. They don't want to see that. I just kind of play around with different like, like the scenarios saying like different takes, I'll play your own different scenarios or different like energies. So yeah, just kind of keeping everything different. And I kind of keep myself tapes to like a minimum. don't really like, unless if I have a bunch of different choices, I want to try.
Five is like my cutoff, but I usually try to keep it at three because I'm like after the third one, like not much is going to be different.
Mishu Hilmy (12:20.686)
Yeah, I think that's really smart, right? Cause like it's creating yourself a boundary in the audition process, you know, three to five takes, whether that's, you know, 10 to 20 minutes. Cause I think it's like heartbreaking if you spent a little bit of time getting familiar with the text and then you're, actually auditioning for it. So was, was that a consistent choice or over time? You're like, you know what, I'm tired of spending an hour and 19 minutes doing a self tape.
For a really long time, like ever since I started doing self tapes, I just try to keep it to a minimum. Because also usually you have a reader and I don't want to keep my friend there for like over an hour. Like they have stuff to do. Like they're not getting paid to do that. Like they're just doing me a favor. But having like auditions where I have readers, it really motivates me to like be prepared beforehand.
so I don't annoy my friend.
I'm curious, how much pressure do you feel or have you felt or been instructed to kind of think about of not necessarily being word perfect, but having the text memorized? Because I think me personally, I think it's like fucked up that that's expected. But what like what level of pressure do you feel currently? Or are you like, as long as I'm 75 % there, 80 % there, you're okay.
Yeah, I would say a good like nine, like 90%. It really depends on how long I have for the audition. Like, you know, if I have the luxury of having a week, obviously, I'm going to try to be word perfect. But sometimes I get an audition where it's like the day before and I have class all day and I really don't have time. So, you know, as long as I get the gist and again, like it goes back to depending on who it's for, you know,
Madelynn Wierda (14:09.28)
and like the style of things they do. So, but yeah, I don't really sweat that much over like, you know, missing like a, or, you know, as long as I get the general consensus of what I'm saying and like, you know, again, the self-tape is like, if you forget a line, like you can just redo it.
What's your sort of approach, if you don't mind me asking, when it comes to having a take or having a point of view on character or on the text? Because I'm pretty against the flat read. I think we talked about it when you were going through the casting. what is your process? How do you go have an attitude about the text, the character, a point of view, take? What are you currently doing that you find has been working or not working?
I really like to have my scripts printed out and I just kind of read through it once and then I like read through it again and I like try to clock what my character thinks and then I try to clock like what other characters think about them and like I take the other characters into consideration because like the way that the other characters are acting like informs my character a lot and how I feel and so just kind of
going through and doing that. then like, again, auditions, like sometimes I'll make up some BS just to like have more for myself to play with. And like, it's not even choices that really matter to anyone else but me. But I feel like it comes through because I like, there's like, I like, it's so much more interesting to watch characters that have like a secret.
in mystery, like know everything about them because that's how people are like people usually in real life aren't saying everything that they're thinking all the time.
Mishu Hilmy (15:58.316)
McKee's book, he wrote like story, which is like this huge sort of Aristotelian structure on just screenwriting and story. He also wrote a book maybe 10, 20 years later called Dialogue. And it breaks down with like text, subtext and subtext. But he breaks it down into the three components of like, what's being said, what's not being said, and what's unsayable. So I think there's something interesting, like when you're building a character or
creating a point of view, can play around with like, know what I'm saying. I have an idea of like what my subtext might be in this moment, whether you create it or you have the context, but to also like fill in the world of like, what is unsayable? Like what is the thing about my character that I would never tell a therapist or a best friend and how does that inform, you know, smaller moments? So beyond the audition, like when you get the gig, what's been like, what's what has this year looked like? How
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure.
Mishu Hilmy (16:54.306)
How are you approaching the work on set, your general experience where you're at?
Again, like I kind of like treat auditions and being on set very similarly, like just doing the work and making sure I like, I don't want to be on set and have to like be running lines the morning of like, and like in between takes if I can avoid it, because it just gives me time to relax. And luckily, like I've gotten used to being on set a lot, like.
Now I'm not annoyed about like, they weren't waiting anymore. Like I always just kind of expect that it's just going to take a while. And I just kind of like, not zone out, but I'm just like, just chilling when I'm on set. And if I have time, I'll like run some lines through with my scene partner. I'll ask the director what they like are thinking for the scene. But I kind of learned to like, if the direct, like if.
They tell me what they want and I'm doing a thing like I don't have to ask was that good? Was that good between each take? I can just do it and if the director has something to say like they will say it and they'll direct me differently. But yeah, like when it comes to actually recording in the moment, I just kind of like do what I do until told otherwise.
Right, I think that's like pretty solid. Like I think it's odd. I would rather have some lose on set who's not asking for consistent feedback. It's a little bit saves time, but to trust like if something's off, the person will speak, speak about it. So kudos to you there. How did you necessarily kind of adopt that approach? Is that just like a faith and trust thing or is it just over the years conversations courses like you know you you you come with what you got and
Mishu Hilmy (18:41.55)
you know, alter as needed.
feel like conversations and courses, but I just don't specifically remember where from. feel like, like, I think I was, I was doing like one short film where I was like asking and they were like, they're like, no, like everything's fine. Like, I'll, like, I'll let you know if anything's off. And then like, I was like, yeah, like, I guess like that is their job to do that. So then ever since then, I just, you know, I make sure I have like,
a conversation I can with the director beforehand, like before even getting on set, just to like, you know, know the vibe I should be like rehearsing for and preparing for. So just like having a conversation before the actual day, if I can.
I was talking to someone earlier, and she's really she directs an acts. She directs lot of like Shakespeare work around setting the expectation of like, well, you know what, what story are we in? What world are we in? And there's power and like, having that conversation taking the moment. Do you recall if there's been times where you've worked on shorts or other projects where there has been a difference between times where you and the director or the main creative crew had
a conversation versus times where it's just like show up and you're just kind of there. Like, have you noticed a difference or how that experience might have been different?
Madelynn Wierda (20:03.008)
I did a short film recently where me and the director, we were actually like, we had enough time to be able to have a conversation before. And we'd have like a full rehearsal, but me and the other actress were able to talk together as well, which was really nice to like kind of understand each other. But on other films that I've done where we haven't really been able to have a conversation before, I feel like it's a little more stressful showing up to set, not knowing what everyone.
wants from you. Like I did the work that I can do, but like I still am just like, don't know. Cause then obviously the day of like the director's stress and running around and it's just never really a good time to like have them like steal them away for five minutes to like understand what's going on. So yeah, I feel like just have like, if I can have a conversation before, like I am able to do better work because I'm not, I don't like to walk in with
like a lot of questions.
Yeah, I think like in lieu of rehearsals, like that's something I'd like to think more about. Like this last short, this shot last year, we had like two two hour rehearsals and a lot of those questions we were able to like talk through. But like had I been on set, like that was like it was like 30 to 60, like 30 minutes cumulative of just like random questions and answer like, well, why am I saying this line when I say it? So in lieu of the rehearsal, do you find that like that's something in your tool bet?
belt to go, all right, I might just be a day player on this bit. There's no rehearsal scheduled. Should I email or give the director a ring and say, hey, do you have 30 minutes? These are the 10 questions. Is that something you are thinking about deploying or have deployed in the past?
Madelynn Wierda (21:46.264)
I have it, it depends. Like if I'm just there for like, as a good day player, like more of like a supporting role instead of a lead. I, know, usually there's a lot less lines. So I will usually have a less questions for them. But you know, like even just like, if I have the director's phone number, just like, Hey, like when you can, like just like two questions, like, you know, like what, like what is the vibe you want me to go for? And also I try to like remember to like, especially for smaller roles, like
What I did in the audition is probably what they want to see, especially if there's only like, you know, five lines or something. And it's really like not that deep, like, and not like, like not overcomplicate things. So yeah. And like, you know, things like that, like, you know, sometimes I can just like ask if it's just one question, I can just like, really quickly before you shoot, like, do you want me to be, you know, more cheery or sarcastic or what are you like looking for?
It really just depends how many questions I have.
Great. Yeah, thanks. It's just something like I, you know, honestly, haven't thought too much about and coming from like a directing side to just either have more mindfulness of, okay, if we can't, if you don't have time for rehearsal, what's, what are some systems of support to provide, you know, the cast? For where you're at right now, like, do you find that there's like a genre you would prefer to be playing in or a story type or are you kind of getting stuck just because of the nature of
your appearance and your age roles that you're getting stuck in. Like, like, where's, where's your head at in terms of like, where you'd like to see yourself growing, whether it's genre or story and what success
Madelynn Wierda (23:26.542)
I mean, I find myself a lot of the time getting cast as either like a really like traumatized girl or like a really popular girl. And like those, like those are fine. But I would love to do more like experimental stuff. And also like, I feel like a rom-com would be fun too. Like I said before, whatever people put me in, like I'm good with like.
I've, yeah, so in like horror might be fun, but just like honestly, like I don't really care about genre too much and really just if it's like a good story and if I like the writing. So yeah, I'm more like focused on, cause even as like a movie watcher, I don't really have like a favorite genre. Like if the movie's the movie's good.
Yeah, yeah, think that's like a great sort of approach as well, right? Because it also returns to process versus creating an arbitrary form over it, right? Like you don't want to get stuck. Well, when I do romcoms, this is how I do romcoms versus leaving yourself open to either experimenting or doing whatever process is appropriate for the text or the character. Do you like have a balance between roles that are offered versus like, all right, just because someone chose me, I'm not going to take this. Like, do you have criteria for
Either you know what you're going to audition for or if you audition and get it what the criteria are for accepting roles.
Yeah, I would say, you know, it depends on like, it depends on my schedule and time. it also depends on like, I don't have a specific criteria, but sometimes you just like feel like you don't want to do this for. Feel like there's something like often you can't really tell like what it is. But like, if I just like feel like some certain way, like icky about me personally playing it, I won't accept it. And it doesn't.
Mishu Hilmy (25:08.11)
Right.
Madelynn Wierda (25:21.774)
necessarily that it's like a bad film for anyone else to do. But like if I just feel a certain way about it, I don't want to force myself to do that because then it'll make me anxious and then I'm not going to do my best work. So I just really try to follow my gut with a lot of things.
How do you deal with the nature of the craft of acting, which is like, you are reliant on a story existing for you, right? Like something to audition for, something that's produced. Because right now, we haven't talked about it, but it doesn't seem like you're currently writing material for yourself. So how are you dealing with the mental headspace of, I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting and looking for it, waiting and looking for it.
You know, just like doing like things outside of acting. don't really write. I don't really write myself a whole lot, but you know, just like I take a bunch of acting classes all the time and I love to watch movies and even like having hobbies that are outside of acting. Like I love like DJing and like horseback riding and just like hanging out with friends and like not really surrounding my whole life around it, even though I really love it. And it's like my main thing that I do like.
still being a well-rounded person because then like, you know, when I'm not, you know, when I don't have anything booked, it's like to have like life experience for when I do book something, you know, that I can draw from because if I just have my head on my computer all day, just like looking for stuff and like worrying over I'm going to get cast or not, that's not going to make me that interesting of a person, apparently. And I'm
probably less likely to get cast because I'm not bringing anything like interesting myself to the table.
Mishu Hilmy (27:06.062)
And I think that's a really healthy balance because I find it that the more the more one focuses on like the identity rather than the process, the more likely you'll be driven by fear. Right. Like if my identity is actor, then if I'm not doing the actor, then I am like no longer me. And it just seems like risk because you get more like desperate. I got it. I got it. I'm not booking a role. I'm not auditioning. I'm not an actor. Yeah. So, yeah, it seems like a nice balanced approach.
Do you have like curiosity of like, I'm just a big fan of like self generation, you know, like where you're at right now, maybe like maybe in a while, but is writing just a process that you don't find enjoyable or you're not currently connected with or you're just not interested in like creating or generating a world for yourself that you could act in or perform in?
I never really dabbled into writing up until the past year. For one of my classes over the summer, we had to write something ourselves, which was a challenge. I enjoyed it, but I feel like sometimes when I'm writing something for myself, I'm thinking about myself too much. I'm just thinking about the end product way too much, rather than thinking about the writing itself and the acting itself. And I also did a...
class that I just finished this semester. And it was like a solo performance class. And it wasn't really an acting class. Like we would just write something new every week. But I found myself just like being so in my head and just thinking about myself way too much and not thinking about the content and thinking about like, what are people going to like think of me if, you know, like if this is about me and just like too stressful. Like maybe if I were to get into writing
like writing things that I'm not gonna act in or maybe have a smaller role in or, you know, while I'm writing not have the end goal be I'm gonna act in it. But if I like it act in it. So I don't really know. It's a new thing for me.
Mishu Hilmy (28:56.472)
Yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (29:09.516)
Yeah, I think it's also like a solid and interesting thing to have an awareness of, right? Like that too close of authorship creates like this, whether it's perfectionism or insecurity or just like headiness of like I'm writing it, I'm going to be in it rather than like when you're acting for a different project, there's already a removal, right? Like you're not the one directing it, you're not the one writing it. So you can be almost mercenary about it versus, wait, you're writing it, you're performing it. It can get like heady. So yeah, that's good. I think that's really good to.
have that awareness and whether it's time or whatever or your processes shift and evolve that you can get there. But it's good to know that you're like more interested in being present with what you're doing rather than like judging the thing you're doing while you're doing it.
Yeah, because I feel like, I don't know, I just, I get to like, I guess, for lack of a better word, like self-important, like I'm just way too much about like, the portrayal of me when it's not really about me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think I've ever heard that kind of approach expressed that way when it comes to, because I know a lot of people who act and I want to see my friends creating work and doing work, but to understand like maybe writing the thing isn't enjoyable for them because it's too close. And part of the beauty of acting is you let yourself go for a different character who isn't you or a world that isn't your world. So there's a beauty to that process.
What kind of has like been motivating you you know you're talking you talking about having like a balance with your life But what's motivated you what's drew you into this industry? What keeps you motivated for you know acting learning the craft or being in the storytelling business?
Madelynn Wierda (30:51.23)
keeps me motivated is just like, you know, it's a kind of industry where like, you, you don't just kind of graduate college and then you just like go get a job. Like you're kind of just always having to go get a job like your life. And so I think just like wanting to like have a good resume and stuff. And like, I also just really love it. And so I just kind of want to do it all the time. And I also like, I'm really lucky because like my parents and like my whole family,
are also like, they like work really hard. And so I feel like I had like a good example growing up of like, you know, working at what is important to you. And I find myself like feeling unfulfilled when I go a while without just like putting in work, like even like work doesn't even have to be that like crazy. can just be like looking for 20 minutes for like castings, you know? So it doesn't always have to be like, I'm like doing this for
10 hours a day, every single day type of thing. Definitely got balance and there's ebbs and flows to my busyness, but I feel like I just like being busy in general.
Yeah, I think having like a work ethic and sort of a perspective on it's great. And I like a healthy perspective. It's great to, you know, practice a 30 second monologue for an hour every other day. It's great to, you know, listen to an interview, great to audition, but also good to like, you know, all right, 10 minutes of looking for interesting roles today. That's all right. So kudos there. it comes to the you have this awareness of like the nature of
the lots of the actor, right? The job responsibility, the job role of acting is precarious because it's gigs. It's all predicated, not like you're just out there on gigs. how do you psychologically gird yourself for an intermediate term or even a long-term career where the nature is you work for two weeks, you're off for however many, you work for a month, you're off for however many, you work for a couple days. What are you doing mentally?
Mishu Hilmy (32:58.566)
prepare yourself or just take care of yourself knowing that's the rhythm of the role.
Me personally, I really just I like not having every single day look the same. So the gig work is kind of perfect for me. I'm getting like a social media marketing minor as well. So I can get like a social media marketing job while doing acting because social media specifically, a lot of it is remote or you don't. It's not like a nine to five where you have to be there every single day. So I have that and that's really comforting knowing like
Okay, like I have something that I still enjoy that can give me like, you know, like money coming in, like without getting in the way of my acting life. So because like when I'm on set, like right now when I'm working with people that are like a little bit older than me, I see them a lot just like while we're sitting and waiting, just like on their computer, like doing their other job and like multitasking. just like having like just again, just being like
ball rounded and having other things than just acting is very comforting. And I feel like ever since like doing that, like being more well rounded, I've actually booked more because it's kind of like the like art of like letting go and there's other it's like I'm just like tweaking out and auditions and like I, you know, don't get cast. So it's like I don't want that to be like, oh, like I have to get cast because I have to.
like make food and like be able to afford groceries or like this is what I do. Like I want it's easier for me to get cast and be more successful in that. It's not the only thing that's like keeping me afloat.
Mishu Hilmy (34:43.949)
think the more important you make something, the less likely you are able to access play. it's not, I don't want to say like, it's not that you don't, it's important to care about something, but if you treat everything like this, this is my once in a lifetime opportunity, my one shot, it's probably just gonna put you in like a really disheveled mental space.
Yeah, I mean, even like, like when like the like saying of like, you know, like when you stop looking for a partner, like one will come along. It's kind of like the same thing because like people can kind of like sense desperation, right? they can sense it. And it's just like you're just going to be in your head, especially with acting like you're not supposed to be in your head. You're supposed to be in the characters.
So like taking like the chillest approach possible, I feel like that's made me like way more successful at it.
you like navigating or dealing with the nature of platforming the nature of platforms and social media because it's like I'm sure you've seen casting notices where it's you you better share your handles or even caps on must have X number of followers which you know I think algorithmically is not followers aren't even so much the most important thing but like how are how is your relationship with social media when it comes to like the craft and acting?
think it's kind of like, it's kind of like, you know, wanting to get any job, right? Like you want to put the things on your social media that you want to be portrayed as and want people to see you as. So for me personally, I don't really care too much about like followers and I just kind of like post whatever I want to post and you know, just like cute pictures, whatever. But like as for like the followers thing, like I see that sometimes, but I think
Madelynn Wierda (36:31.52)
in like the big scheme of the industry. It's a very small percentage of it. Like, you know, all respect for all that. But I just a lot of the projects that do that sometimes aren't really projects that I would be interested in anyway. And so, you know, I just I understand why some films do it, though, because, know, you want names for marketing and stuff like, you know.
It also usually has to make money. That's just how it is. But I think the followers thing is like a very small percentage in the big scheme of things.
Do you find that you have like tools to navigate those comparisons or those judgments? Because I know early on in my performing career, I would compare myself a lot and have like, seething or bottled up resentments or insecurities. Like what kind of tools are you using to have that awareness of like when you're comparing yourself to folks that look like you are in the same kind of cohort or same style of work you do?
Especially now like it's inevitable to compare yourself like just like growing up and seeing like, you know people like I don't know just off the top of my head like Billie Eilish like Winning a Grammy at like 15 or 16 now, however old she was and just things like that like it's hard to compare yourself but also like I feel like just surrounding myself with People who are older than me really helps is it like?
puts into perspective like, okay, like your life isn't over when you turn 20, like it's okay. And so, yeah, just kind of like keeping a bunch of different people around me to get different perspectives and also just like therapy and like working on yourself. Like you kind of have to build like your own kind of confidence. And I was like really lucky to already have like done a lot of therapy like in high school. So I feel like me.
Madelynn Wierda (38:30.894)
Now, like, obviously, I still compare myself, but it's not as strong as it could be. And like when it comes to booking and stuff, just like the, you know, like, well, like another one of the door closes like another one opens and like, you know, like just like celebrating my friends because there's there's been so many instances where both me and my friends have auditioned for something and they get it and I don't and like vice versa.
and just supporting each other and being happy for each other and like just taking taking classes and not letting rejection like just make you not go on auditions and like keep taking classes because that's where I felt like the most assurance and like someone told me once like it's about like booking the room and not booking the role so like even if you don't get it that doesn't necessarily mean that
you're like out of the running forever, you know, like it's not just one project. There's so many different things that, you know, like height and like hair color and it, it does not have to do with like talent all the time.
is saying, pointing out to what's in your control, right? Like you can be as charming and kind and nice in the room and take those big risks in the room for those roles. But also like, I think practicing that awareness of you don't have the full context. Like they might be casting for a certain vibe or something you're not even aware of to just like reflect on that versus taking it, making it personal. Like, oh, I'm terrible. I didn't do enough or, you know, I'll never be chosen.
And like a month ago, I was like in a callback with these two other like very like talented girls that I know. And I was like, I was like so nervous. So was like, my gosh, like they're definitely in it cast over me. But then I was like, I was like, but I'm in like the same callback as these two people that are really talented. So I also must be talented. Like it's I feel like sometimes brains want to flip it and be like.
Madelynn Wierda (40:31.12)
no, this is a bad thing, but like really it was a good thing because I was being grouped in with these people.
Yeah, it's again, it's just that like, what, like cognitive reframing or whatever it is, like creating a new a new way to see it. I remember like, I read the artist way a lot every year by like Julia Cameron. And I think there's a little section around the ego wanting to be first like when the when the race right and you know, when you kind of reference Billie Eilish, who I really admire their sort of music or her work as well. But it's that that trap of
I didn't cross the finish line. I wasn't the first 19 year old to win X or I wasn't the first 20 year old to do this. I try to remember like, you know, Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin were innovating the film industry well before any of us were born. like, what do you think, you know, that sort of that obsession with precocious youth? Like, what do you think that does for you or to you?
put such a premium on like, got to be first, I got to be the best, I got to be the youngest. Like what, where does that come from? Like what, is it doing to you? You know, just focusing on that.
I feel like realizing that like a lot of that, like it's just like kind of letting go of like self-importance and more focusing on community because like you don't have to be this like, you know, I don't have to be like the first 20 year old to I don't I don't know. I can't even come up with one, but it's like just focusing on yourself. And there's so many people in the world like, you know, like the people who
Madelynn Wierda (42:05.282)
have done things by certain ages, like that's so great for them. Also, it's realizing like I have some friends that were like child actors and like my mom was like, there was like a time where I was like comparing myself to them and she was like, they've been working way longer than you have, of course they're gonna be doing that. They just didn't have a childhood. You know, it's just kind of realizing
And some people are set up in different ways and like, you know, I'm very privileged in certain ways that others are not and people are very privileged in certain ways that I'm not. And so it's just kind of focusing on yourself and just like, you know, going back to like self-confidence and just like, you know, celebrating other people, but not letting that just make you not want to do anything.
guess anything like two things, right? Like everything has its price and we're not aware of the price like other people are paying. I sometimes it's okay. Sometimes it's not like to like kind of sacrifice your childhood to be auditioning four times a week and be homeschooled. Like that's a price and there may be beautiful experiences and success there. And like the other thing is like what exactly it is to like define personally for yourself what that success is rather than like have that kind of be placed on you, whether from parents or culture or youth culture, know, society in general.
Yeah, I think it definitely helps to to like, you know, obviously the end goals, I'm like, I want to be in like big movies that are in the movie theater. But that's like a very like, but it's like, okay, like what is between now and that? Like, just focusing on like, okay, well this like this month, currently, I'm like, I'm working on refreshing my materials, like re editing my reel, like getting my things together. And then next month is like applying for agencies and kind of like having things on a
little bit of a smaller scale.
Mishu Hilmy (43:58.51)
When you think of that sort of end goal and the price that comes to that end goal, like, you taking the steps to go toward that vision, right? And that vision is going to evolve and change and shift as time goes on. But I was talking to John Silver, who just finished directing and released the Arizona Festival run for his movie, The Premier. And it's like the sports metaphor of if you want to be in the World Series, but you're not practicing every day.
Well, it's to be hard to get into the World Series, right? So it's like, what are you doing for yourself that's, that's, you know, doing your, you know, your jump shots or whatnot, your, your practice and like, it seems like you at least are trying to implement or integrate, you know, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. What's your creative process like looking like for the, you know, upcoming year and hope streams aspirations?
I'm sorry.
Madelynn Wierda (44:47.968)
Yeah, I hope to get like signed to an agent and you know, book a lot more professional work because I feel like I got a lot of like student films and you know, less professional work that I like I love all of them, you know, but you know, just booking things that you know, might look better on a resume, for lack of a better word, just, you know, from like a professional standpoint before I graduate college.
But yeah, just like, you know, surrounding myself more professional environments and like making that like really awkward transition from like student to like professional. Like I mean, in any field, it's just very, it's very awkward time. Um, so yeah, just focusing on that, um, and just kind of getting my stuff together and yeah, just also.
you know, living my life, still doing things that don't always have to do with acting, you know, like finding other joys and just like chilling with my family and my friends and just continuing to take classes and work hard in between all that.
I'm just curious if you find that that's sort of like a judgment or an imposter syndrome type thing to be like, I am a student versus I am a person who's doing a trade or a craft.
Me personally, feel like as an actor and in a lot of creative fields, you're kind of always going to be a student like you're like. So I like like two summers ago, I was like taking a class and like they kind of programmed us to stop saying like, like, I'm an aspiring actor. I'm trying to be an actor because you are like you're you're doing it actively. you know, like I'm still an act like I'm currently.
Madelynn Wierda (46:31.944)
So I'm an actor. again, it just comes out of like verbiage and like mental refraining. Also, like the way you present yourself, like if I present myself very professionally and like I know what's going on, even if I don't all the time, like people are more likely to like take a chance on you in professional settings. And if I'm walking into a room being like, yeah, like I'm an actress instead of being like, well, I want to do that. Like they're going to take me more seriously if I introduce myself with the first one. So.
It's more that it's awkward because it's like the threshold of decision making, you know, like a large part of your schedule is predicated on taking coursework and, you know, winding down and being like, well, what, what choices do I make? that where it's more awkward? Cause it's like, literally you haven't quite landed. Like what, what's your transition? What's the next step from completing school?
I mean, I feel like for any career, like graduating college is just kind of like, okay, like I've just been in school since I was like four. Like I've always just been in school, so I don't really know what to do now. So it's just kind of that too. I'm just like, I've just always gone to class. Like I've always just had summer break and like, you know, like Christmas break and just like being in that routine your whole life of being a student full time. So.
that and just I plan to like move. I'm going to move to L.A. after after I'm in Chicago. So also just like mentally preparing for like, OK, I like moving because I move around a lot, but it's I'm still like a student and just like chilling kind of. So it's like, oh, I'm moving for a few months. I'm like, OK, like I'm going to like move there and like live there. And I'm an adult.
Like it's more of like an internal thing less than a career. It's like, I'm gonna go like,
Mishu Hilmy (48:18.132)
Okay. Yeah, totally. Yeah, the one thing I would just pitch is like create those routines or like brace yourself to create routines and like finding those third spaces and community because like I moved to New York City when I graduated and then Chicago and it was like, all right, theater, like what are the three theaters I can connect with and build a routine and relationship there? Exciting, exciting times. And then like, yeah, so yeah, what's just like one thing, one small thing that you've been doing that has had like a unexpectedly outsized like impact on?
your day to day or your life recently.
Well, that's a really hard one. would say honestly, like, because I like again, with like financial stability and like spending, I feel like I mean, a lot of like college students like, you know, you don't have the most money. I used to be like, I'm still like all for saving, but I used to be like really, really stingy with it. And like the past semester, I've been having like so much more fun just like
You know, like, oh, like, can go get like a nice dinner every once in while with my friends and treat myself. And just what I've been doing that like the money like weirdly just like comes back around. I like book another job. it's but I think it's because I'm like a little bit happier, you know, like not seeing that happiness, but like even just like buying a candle. If you can, that's like two dollars more because it's Woodwick and like that. I know. I'm just looking at my candle. It's burning right now. Like it's just kind of like
treating yourself in certain ways. And I feel like just letting yourself be comfortable if you're able to, you know, obviously like first and pay your rent, but you know, just being comfortable in moderation.
Mishu Hilmy (50:00.11)
Great. Thank you so much for sharing. It's definitely something to be said about like having that awareness and that openness. And I think it's important to also like have that budget, right? instead of it being like 60 % expenditures, 40 % savings, it's like, all right, maybe this month, I'm okay with 75%, 80 % expenditures, 25 % savings. like, yeah, like, I think I talked to my partner a lot about like, her relationship with finance. And it's just good to like,
open it up and you know, be aware of this. yeah, thank you so much for sharing and yeah, it's an absolute delight chatting with you.
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
Mishu Hilmy (50:43.918)
Before setting you off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed this show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your lightness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little Mischief Motivation.
Mishu Hilmy (51:09.55)
Here you go. Record yourself doing the same audition piece, 30 second senior monologue, three different ways. One with high energy, one underplaying it, and one with bold unexpected choices. And then watch them back so you can train your ability to either make strong choices, vary choices, and improve adaptability. And have, you know, a sense of point of view. See which ones you tend to default in, which ones you're more comfortable in, and which ones are funner. But yeah, give yourself a shot. Invite.
the play of making a variety of choices and listen to them, watch them, compare them, depressurize the situation and make it all in the spirit of discovery, curiosity and play. So that's the prompt. Hope you try it out even if you don't act. Might be helpful when it comes to writing or other things you're interested in. All right. Thanks for trying it out and I'll see you next time.