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This podcast is dedicated to changing the automotive industry for the better, one conversation at a time.
Whether you're a technician, vendor, business owner, or car enthusiast, we hope to inspire you to improve for your customers, your careers, your businesses, and your families.
Lucas Underwood 0:00
But long story short, it started
Lucas Underwood 0:04
out of the fact that like, I joined this group, right? My shop was in really terrible shape, right? join this group on Facebook. And
Lucas Underwood 0:13
I asked stupid questions and everybody was like, Hey, you're an idiot. I was like you don't hear, you know. And here comes Dave. And he's like, man, don't listen to him I can I can help you get like part of the way straightened up and give you a little bit of information. And then, and I was a technician, right. Like, that's what I was good at. I saw things in a mechanical mind. Right. And then over time,
Lucas Underwood 0:37
I guess the best way to say it is is that I realized I needed to be a business owner. Correct? Right. Yeah. And it was not the same job. No, it is not. And so we started this podcast, right? We few years go by and we ended up starting this podcast because we wanted we didn't ever want anybody to feel like we had Phil, we didn't need any way to experience the struggles and the frustrations and the things we had, we had gone through. And in this group, we realize that all these people that are having struggles, guess what they are? Their technicians. Yeah. Right. And, and we talk about all the time the E Myth ever read the book, the E Myth, not unbelief. So I got a Michael Gerber and in it, he says something, he's talking about this bakery. And this woman and she's super upset, and she's like, getting ready to lose everything. And she says, for God's sakes, I just want to bake cupcakes I all I want to do is bake cook cakes, you know, like, what am I going to do? And he said, Listen, if you are bake cupcakes, for God's sake, sell the bakery and go buy cupcakes. But the job of owning a bakery is not one of baking cupcakes. It's the job of owning and managing a bakery. Yeah. Well, auto repair shops, the same thing. We can't run a business by working on cars. Right? We run a business by managing a shop. Right? Yeah, exactly. And so your story resonates with a lot of people that follow us because and I think it's neat to hear somebody who didn't follow that trajectory, because what everybody else would have done is bailed. Right? Everybody would have gone and said, I'll just start my own shop. I was doing my own thing, right? And then they would have found their selves where it's found themselves. So introduce yourself, right? I'm Jake fruth. I was Matco tools. Work in the diagnostic department is product technical specialist.
Jake Fruth 2:21
Been with MakerBot for since 2011, starting as a distributor, and then moved up into a DVM role, worked with the diagnostic department in actually going out and doing diagnostic
Jake Fruth 2:35
services with our equipment, looking for gaps and showing what our equipment could do. And then taking on the DSR role for the last three years. And January took over the product specialist role. That's so cool. And so tell tell the story before that, because I think that's super relevant. So I was I was mechanic for good 1314 years, and had other aspirations out of school and defaulted to it because I enjoy working on cars. And through the years of working at the Chrysler dealership ultimately moved to the aftermarket world, just because the pay, yeah. What was it about the pay? Well, it's the same across all the brands, so I can't I can't pick on Chrysler, the warranty pages continues to drop over and over and over again. And we've seen massive, massive cuts recently. Yeah. And he's unbelievable, what they're cutting into. Well, and some of it, it comes from some of the mechanics at the dealership, where they'll figure out a way to do something faster. And the brag about it.
Jake Fruth 3:40
The OEE learns, says, Hey, show me and all this next thing, you know, the labor rates down. Yeah. And you're like, Thanks, dude. Exactly. You got all this budget. And you got all of its,
Lucas Underwood 3:54
you know, I had a guy hired a technician from from Ford one time. And they man he used to brag about how fast he could do the recall door latches. I could make a fortune. I was so fast. I was so good. I made all this money. And years later, I ended up talking to the shop foreman. And he said, Yeah, he said, every single one of those cars came back like without fail. Every single one of those cars he flew through, came back. He's like, he wasn't there to find out. I'm like, Yeah, I had the same experience. Right.
Lucas Underwood 4:26
So so it was the pay, right? You could make warranty time. Right? So you went aftermarket. Tell me a little bit about that. You have to completely revamp. Some of the shops are gonna have the specialty tools you need. Yeah, some of them are not. I was always in a mindset of opening my own shop. So that didn't deter me as much. And the first time I borrowed something twice. I bought it even when it was a specialty tool. Sometimes it was for insurance that hopefully I'd never had to use it again. Yeah, of course. Spend 300 bucks and maybe I maybe I never see
Jake Fruth 5:00
that car. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, sure hope I never see them. Again, I'm gonna buy just a lot well,
Jake Fruth 5:05
and I did work at the house, I was building a clientele there, okay. And through that learned a little, you can't do both. You're not gonna be we'll work on cars and run the business right effectively and grow. You could probably support yourself to a point, but then what happens when you can't work on them anymore? Yeah, you're done. Exactly. Looking at franchises. The last shop that I managed, was an opportunity that I saw, okay.
Jake Fruth 5:33
Speaking with the ownership there, several things transpired. And next thing I knew, I was a macro distributor in South Dallas area. So let me ask you this, why didn't you try and take the shop ownership role and say, Look, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna force it. And I'm gonna go start my own shop on the side, I'm gonna go rent a little building somewhere, and I'm just gonna do it. Why didn't you take that row?
Jake Fruth 6:00
There, I can't think of one thing. There's a lot going on in the industry was changing, then it's continued to change. There are certain aspects that I think have failed with the dealership model. There are certain things that have that are failing with independent repair shops. Yeah. And the entire marketplace is changing. Yeah. And those that are staying up on it are going to succeed. And there are some different strategies that we're seeing out there. We're seeing independent repair shops start to emerge more more than ever. Yeah, you're seeing the dealerships do the same thing. I live not too far out of Texarkana. And I think 90% of the dealerships are owned by one company there, of course, and that's how the some of the dealerships are surviving. With the with the change.
Jake Fruth 6:48
I had a really good macro distributor at the shop that I was managing, okay.
Jake Fruth 6:53
The guy that came in to buy the place I knew, I was like, I'll stay on, I'll help with a walk through all this.
Jake Fruth 7:02
He made changes that made it harder to work there. Okay. And it wasn't his intent. And I think just the frustration of changing from his previous career to shop ownership. Yeah, he made some decisions that just didn't ultimately work out. And I understand if you don't want to share, right, because because it can be tough to share that. And so no problem if you don't want to, but you feel comfortable sharing what those changes are, because some of the owners listening might be saying, What do I not do, he felt we were already paid too much, okay. And I was kind of thinking, I'm good. But I was looking to continue to grow my skill, show my worth, and get more of that pie. We had a very good health care plan with the previous owners. And that was changed and basically reduced. And, and then it was a complete environment change that just slowly happened. Because as soon as employees aren't happy, the whole culture changes. Yeah, yeah. And things start to go downhill. And anytime there's a management change and ownership change, there's
Jake Fruth 8:13
I think that's probably a component that needs to be addressed. First and foremost, is come in, how's it working, get seated, get settled, build the relationships. And then through conversations with those in the shop,
Jake Fruth 8:29
work on the changes that juicy the business needs from because maybe those changes have to happen because the financial state of the business, right? But the employees are never going to see it that way. If you walk in and day one, you cut X, Y and Z. Yeah, they go, Oh, he's just being greedy. But if you can get in there and build that relationship, and and work with them and show them. You know, one of the big things I like about Macco is there's a Kaizen
Jake Fruth 8:56
It's Japanese for constantly improving. Yeah, this might be working great. How can we make it better? Yeah. And get people from different departments, sometimes with our relationship with volunteer from other sister companies to get different viewpoints. On Why do you do this this way? Have you ever looked at it this way? And how can we improve? And if you take that metric, moving forward in the automotive repair business, I think you can grow? Yeah. I think one of the biggest struggles that I've seen is the overall pay is not changed. Yeah. Everything else has gone up in price. And when I was in high school, I was hanging out of shop. Learn a little here to there. I've always been a mechanic, take it apart, figure out how it works. Put it back together, right? Get my first car and I'm doing the same thing making mistakes. Talk with him. And he goes, Yeah, that's a rookie mistake. Okay. I'm less of a rookie. Now. That's it. And his he explained his Tech has paid 50%
Jake Fruth 10:00
of the door. Right? Right. And he was at $60 an hour that are six $60 an hour to the customer at that time, right. And his tech was paid 30 bucks an hour, right? Period fit what 50% of what came in, was the tech and the tech bought his own tools. Right, and was responsible for his skill and his education, anything new. And at that time, there wasn't the fuel injection was there. Right, the OBD. One was there.
Jake Fruth 10:27
But it wasn't, it wasn't really, you know, is some of the big changes we're seeing. Yeah, yeah. But I don't think the pay is, is where it needs to be. I and I've seen it change from a percentage to just a straight
Jake Fruth 10:43
flag rate, you're gonna get X amount of dollars per your flag hour. Yeah. Or are they go to a salary? And as long as you're here, eight to five, this is your paycheck. Right? And they all have pros and cons? Well, I think, I think that's where we need to be headed in a lot of ways. In other words, and we're, we're paid on the merit, we're paid on what we're capable of. And, and, you know, one of the things we talked about on the show a lot is, you need to make sure your people are hold, right, we need to pay them to where they can be hold, they can have a good life, they can live a good life. And if I can look at 50 other professions, and every single one of them pays more with less skilled than what it takes here. Right? Yep. There's factory jobs that pay more than we pay. Yep, there's factory jobs that give insurance and benefits and all these other things. And people say why are they leaving to go to a factory? Well, if you can go over there and make $140,000 a year?
Lucas Underwood 11:41
What do you think's going to happen and and what factories paying $140,000? You are Hi. I'm not? You are? I'm not high? But I don't know what factory? Talking about brand Pollack good year in, in Buffalo.
David Roman 11:56
Maybe. But 140,000 in New York is like, you know, $25,000 25,000 and Alabama and 60,000 and Kansas, it's all relative. The factory thinks that that's not even an issue. Look, you know, I push back on anytime, is PE
David Roman 12:18
the reason why PE percentage is is now disconnected. Because we've heard this before the 50% thing. You need to be 50%. The cost of running the business is what has required the cost to the consumer go up. So it's not, I can't get by with a snap on brick. Right? That's not happening right. Now. I got to have seven scan tools, right. And an old school alignment machine was fine. But now I gotta have fancy alarm machine plus, now we got a das Correct. Okay.
David Roman 12:54
That all has caused the caused the cost of operating the business go up. But then you start adding a bunch of other garbage amenities. Consumer
David Roman 13:08
that consumers have gotten used to things like drop boxes, Wi Fi in the lobby, nice looking lobbies. Oh, you know, back in the day, you know, it was a dingy office, right? Maybe had a chair for you to sit in right? stacks of manuals and papers and crap. And everyone just got used to it. And everyone's like, Oh, yeah, that's the shop right? Now. It's got to be nice, clean, waiting areas with coffee, and TV plan and nice chairs that are comfortable for the customer sit in for two or three hours. All of that has caused even payroll taxes have increased.
Jake Fruth 13:48
Tax? Yeah, I don't know. That needs to be 50%. And well, now it's not the only component but I think it's a big one. It's 20 to 25% of the of the overall
David Roman 14:02
ticket is what is going to pay typically. So the if the shops of any size they don't they pay their technicians. Well, where you have an issue is the like the warranty times? Yeah. Oh, yeah. In an on the independent side, they get so aggressive about getting the sale, that they'll look for ways to shave off with it where they can and go, Hey, I know this normally pays 1.5. But can you do 1.32 On the to the technician just so they can cut the price down and be able to sell the job to the customer. And that that needs to go away entirely. Right.
Lucas Underwood 14:47
Right. We've devalued our industry by doing that. Right. Well, they're
Jake Fruth 14:52
just trying to get the sale. We've devalued the diagnostic process as well. Yeah, I've I worked at a shop where they gave away the Diag. As to charge if you did the repair, right. And it's like, I learned how that car works. I've done the repair enough times, I know how to fix it and fix it right? And it not come back here for that problem again, they didn't know what was wrong with it. So they brought it here, I put my time into it to verify that that's what's wrong. And now you're going to short me by time, and that shop didn't even provide you a scan tool, you had to have your own scan tool, and you had to have your skill, and they were discounting your investment and your skill,
David Roman 15:34
just to get the repair. That's so common today. Yeah, still come.
Jake Fruth 15:38
We hear it all the time. i We have customers that say, I can't afford this in your diagnostic portfolio, because I don't make enough money. And it's like, talk to me about that. What do you charge for date for your diagnostic charge? Oh, no, we don't do it. It's like, why do you not charge for that? And
Lucas Underwood 15:55
here's the thing is it is the least profitable service. If you're if you charge your base labor rate, right? Because think about it, what does a typical repair shop need to do? It needs to have a one to one parts to labor ratio. And so if you charge your conventional ish, but if you charge your conventional labor rate, and you take half of your sales out, because you're not selling parts in a testing routine, and it might take you you know, you do a voltage drop test, let's say that you go in, you take the connector apart, you know what circuitry trouble codes, you find that component, and it's saying, Hey, this is circuit low, right? Well, what does that mean? That means if my control wire circuit low, I'm gonna go back to that component. And I'm going to do a three wire test. Let's say it's a three wire component, EVAP solenoid, it's got a power ground control, how are we going to look at it right? What am I gonna do? I'm gonna go back. And let's say, Okay, I'm gonna go to my control wire, if it's got 12 volts on it, and I can load that and the solenoid closes. What does that mean? Well, it means that I've got power to it. Yep. And then, and so I go through this process. Let's say I've gotten an hour in it. And I find that I've got a bad wire. And what what is it going to cause me to fix it? It's going to cost me five minutes, 10 minutes.
Jake Fruth 17:08
It depends on where the brake is in the harness. Exactly. And you, you've got to find that now it could be at the connector, and it's easy find, or it's halfway down the harness as it goes past the transmission.
Lucas Underwood 17:17
But But even then, so now I fix it, right? Maybe, maybe I charge them $50 To fix it. Maybe I'll charge them $100 Fix it. But I'm still missing that parts. If I'm charging 150 bucks an hour, what would have been $300? To do a great job, right? Yep. I'm missing half of my gross profit, right? Make sense? And so now you got all these shops who really should be charging $300 an hour to do a testing routine on a car? Yeah, who were giving the damn thing away. And now they're setting that standard for everybody else in our entire industry, because, well, John John down the street doesn't charge. Why are you charging me? You ripping me off?
Jake Fruth 17:57
Yeah, well, in some of the feedback we've gotten as to why, especially as you get out of some of the major city areas, or you're in the lower income, part of a major city, is that the parser does the diagnostic for free, and they walk in with a slip. And it's like that's not a diagnosis. That's the list of components that could cause that code. And they're selling you out of that list of components, the one they sell the most. And sometimes it's the most expensive part on that list.
Lucas Underwood 18:24
And at the end of the day, we talked about this earlier, it is a zip code. It is the equivalent of a zip code. It gives you a general area. Yep. If you put a zip code on envelope, drop it in the mailbox, where's it going? Right, it might get to the right tail, but that's about the extent of it. Right?
David Roman 18:39
But here's the thing, here's I looked up the average pay for some very popular jobs. Right now, I think data analyst is one of the most sought after positions in this country. Oh, that analyst you, if that makes sense. Look at how AI is taking over everything. You gotta have somebody looking at all that. I look at the average salary of a data analyst in my area, I pay my technicians more, I pay them all more. I pay everybody in my shop. So for the person who works part time because she works part time. But if she worked full time, she would be making more than your average data analyst does in my area. Now, could they make more to factory they could? In 10 years. Once they've moved up in seniority, and they haven't gotten fired over the next thing years, then yeah, you're going to end up on first shift, making pretty good money. But it's going to take you 10 years and you got to be committed to working the crap shifts for the next five to seven years. And then maybe you'll move into first shift, and then maybe you'll move up enough to start making some really good money. So I dismiss all all of that the The bigger issue is like you're saying, giving away diagnostic time devaluing the, the end. The the technicians the mindset of the technician. We were just talking to what's the gentleman's name? Peter eight Bradley. P. Bradley. Bradley from Hello, Hill. Fantastic boy ASMR voice. I think that was contributing to the sleepiness. I'm just telling you and David's
Lucas Underwood 20:31
getting ready to pass. Just like watching them because I've got all the cameras are up here in front of me. And I
David Roman 20:36
was trying in this not that he was fascinating. But he had this like, this voice. It was English accents. Yeah, get me. Yeah, so it's that. It's like, Oh, man. Anyway, I was gonna fall asleep is my point. He was talking about the technology and headlamps, okay. And so these headlights can now shoot up into a little projector module. And then the projector module shoots out a beam. And it can isolate section part certain sections of the road for you, right? Yeah, driving down the road, and it'll dim because it sees the road sign coming up. And if it's at full brightness, it'll wash out the sign, right, so it'll dim it, or it'll see that somebody's walking on the side of the road. So it'll shoot us some some light over there so that you can see it properly at night. It can write things on the on the ground. So you think you know you buy a high end a Mercedes or something like that. You want those flip in headlights, the same Mercedes. Mercedes signed that. That'd be awesome, right? Okay, so all these headlights can do all that. Right now the costs like 6500 bucks for these headlights, and all that they can make them super thin, and whatever shape you want. And you can do all these crazy things with these headlights. Now, that's going to require that the headlights have their own, set a network communication lines, right? And have the capability to then diagnose whatever aspect of the component that's failed. Hey, it no longer lights up the right hand side of the road when I come up to you know, somebody's walking or, Hey, it's not it's not dimming. When the signs come in. It's like, okay, is that part of the A Das? Is that in the headlamp, I'm gonna need to run codes on this thing. Now you're digging into the sophistication of these headlamp assemblies. An old school mechanic guy has been coming through the through the ranks of what's that guy gonna say? I can't believe it's a headline, headline. I cannot believe how complicated these stupid engineers make these headlines. So complicated. I gotta now run codes to be able to figure out what's wrong with their headline. They're going to look at it from a very jaded standpoint, where you bring in somebody that's new and fresh. And, hey, I'm pulling them away from that data data analyst job, hey, you're going to be sitting in a cubicle. You're going to be reading spreadsheets all day long. And compiling TPS reports. And you didn't put the right header in the right tweet in the CPS report. You guys aren't catching the reference. You guys killing me. Anyway. I've seen officers Yeah. So you could do that or we could tear this headlamp assembly off this, this Kia, Evie and tear into it and fixed circuit board on it because there are none available. There are none available and there are forever backward. And so that for somebody who's a tinkerer is going to be more appealing, right? The pace gotta be competitive. Doesn't necessarily need to be higher. And ease be the good shops are paying well now. Right now the good shops are paying well now. I personally blame the technicians. Because they stay at the bad shops. Yeah. Okay, were you you got out? Yeah, you saw this coming? Absolutely. This guy was not a shop owner or technician. He was an investor. He bought this sort of sounds like at least Yes, he he bought this shop thinking I'm gonna make 15 to 20 cents on my dollar. And it's just gonna be I'm gonna rake it, I'm gonna get my my investment back in three years. And in five years, it's gonna be worth X amount of dollars. And in 10 years, I'm gonna be able to dump this thing there and double my money, whatever, right? So that's what he was thinking. Sure. He walks in and all of a sudden, he's like, gotta cut costs, gotta cut costs. And you're looking at it as we weren't happy people fixing cars, right? That's not That's not how he saw it. So he walks in. Now you you're at a crossroads, but a lot of technicians will just put up with it. And instead, bitch about the industry, right? And instead, see that at stead of going you know what, I bet you there are shops out there that would value what I can do not discount the diagnostic fee, and helped me become a better technician and introduced me to cool technology like these headlines. I need to go find a shop like that.
Jake Fruth 25:19
So I did some looking around before I went to that shop. And there are shops out there that I would work for. And there are shops out there I'd never worked for. And I don't think there's enough shops out there that I would work for to help with that. I was listening to some shop owners here the past couple of days, and some of them have some great ideas. You know, the there needs to be I don't know how much training they have at the tech schools. I didn't go to the tech schools. I started the low ranks in the dealership and worked up right. But I was taught very quickly by the senior guys. I started in the summer. bankroll. Yeah, and they were like, don't spend that. You need to put away 20 30% of that. Yeah, every single week is like why? Because winter, I was at a dealership did a very good job. We were really only slow the week of Thanksgiving. The first one I was at the week of Thanksgiving and the week of Christmas. But after 911 their business failed. Yeah. And and it was never the same. Yeah. The I don't think that that's taught because I see them, you know, in tool stores big giant wide eyes. Yeah. And they need tools. And they leave with a three bay toolbox. Dude, that's not the starting point. We have great cards.
Lucas Underwood 26:44
We cannot Can I ask him? Well, the whole Terry situation.
David Roman 26:51
You're gonna ask him, you know, he works for Tool Company. I know, I want to push the three beats or every new technician needs. They're joining your
Jake Fruth 27:03
company to serve? No, no, no, because I want them for the long haul. Oh, see, there you go. I want to put them into a I want to put them into a Jamestown made Singh cart with the right tools. So he gets in and gets going. And then two years later, I'm taking that card and trade and putting them into a two bay. And then two years later, I'm taking that and trade and then putting him into a three bay. Okay. So I've got him as a constant lifelong customer, as opposed to blowing him out. And he gets something that makes him
David Roman 27:32
you know, get some money back collection thing.
Jake Fruth 27:36
I don't Yeah. And that builds morale on the shop. Yep, I came in behind the distributor that didn't do very well. And it was a hard uphill battle of a lot of those shops. And by taking that approach, I got to the point where when a new tech came into that dealership into that shop, the foreman walked him out to my store and said, This is the guy you're you need to buy tools from the other trucks come around here, but this is who I recommend.
Lucas Underwood 28:03
So when when I started, there was a snap on dealer who was a fantastic human being. And I would go to buy something. And he would say, Son, you don't need that. And I'm not I'm not saying I don't want your money. But I'm telling you, I've been doing this for 40 years. I promise you don't need that. Right. What you need to do is you need to think this way. And and he built my business, okay? Because all the tools that I needed, he put on the truck account that there were weeks I couldn't pain, never worried about it. He always worked with me, if I started to make a bad decision, and even if it was other things with my business, he come inside Lucas, stop. You're making a bad decision. Once you think about this first, I started to buy Mr. Big toolbox. And he said, it's ridiculous. Don't do that. It's not where you need to spend your money. Put your money back one day, you'll need it. Right. And he was right. And so I was I was blessed. But I also didn't realize that there were others, right, because I'm from old country town. Right. And people helped people, right. And so I never thought I so just was raised to never think that people could intentionally take advantage of somebody. Right? Well, he retired. And I don't know that that dealer intentionally took advantage of some of the situations. There were some things that happen that I was unhappy about between me and the dealer. And you know, Bygones are bygones, right. Nice guy. Nothing, nothing wrong with the guy. But a couple of weeks ago, I walked in and one of my technicians was was dirty. Now we've got a rule in the shop, I buy the tools, okay? If you want to handle stuff like that, I don't care. Whatever you wanna do. If you're gonna buy some expensive let me buy it because it's tax write off, and I just gave it to you. It's yours. I don't care what you do with it. Okay, take it home, do whatever you want. It's you ers after some time. Yeah. But I don't want you to, I don't want you over here spending your personal money. Right? I care about you, I want you to build wealth. Right in this particular technician has not made very good money choices throughout his life, right? We've been talking about he wants to buy a house, we've been talking about cash flows real problem. We've continually worked to increase revenue and do things to help and say, Look, I'm gonna make you whole. I can't just keep giving because you're
Jake Fruth 30:29
correct. Fix it, you can only do Yeah, you can only do so much.
Lucas Underwood 30:33
Exactly. You're not fixing the problem. And we're, what's the Parkinson's Law, Parkinson's Law, which is I give more, you spend more. And now we just have a bigger problem. We're spending more and more and more.
David Roman 30:45
I think it relates to time, but you know, use it for spending. Yeah. If you make $50,000 a year, that's what you spend. But when you make 100, somehow, all those expenses creep up to the hungry.
Lucas Underwood 30:55
Yeah. And so he's dirty. And I walk over here. And I'm like, What's up with this? And I said, Hey, what's up. And all of a sudden, Snapple man comes in carrying a brand new tool. And I said, we're in the hill. Now. I'm not trying to talk shade. But there's a particular tool that now that they've changed things when it goes EO L or it's not going to subscription, when you try and print the PDF, or you try and attach that PDF, which has the prescan it is corrupt. It does not work. Oh, really? Yeah. And for me, that's a problem. That's a big problem. And so it doesn't attach to anything. And so I'd already said we will not be buying any more of those tools. And so I asked him, I said, What did you do? He said, It's gonna save me money. I said, it's gonna save you money. I've never been in a situation where I can spend money to save money. Like, that's not how this works. Let's talk about this for a minute, how does it save you money? And he's, well, it's gonna lower my payment. And like, dude, right now, the interest rates are the highest they've ever been. There's something wrong with this scenario.
Jake Fruth 32:08
He's looking at the short term and not the long term. And he said, No, no, they
Lucas Underwood 32:12
they told me it was gonna save me money. They promised me it's gonna save me money.
Jake Fruth 32:17
Only on the weekly basis, or on the on the weekly basis?
Lucas Underwood 32:21
Well, so he comes into my office a few minutes later, we get We're like family, right? So we get heated with each other. I walk off, he walks off. He's mad at me. I'm mad at him. And he comes from office a little bit later. And he says, Well, what tool do you think we should get? And I'll see if he'll take it back. They refused. They said, No, we're not taking the tool back. Not interested. We don't want it. And I said, Well, let's talk about the numbers here. Because I was thinking about, maybe I could pay this tool off or do something to help me with it, right. And I said, How much did you owe Snapple? And he said, I owe them $1,800. And I'm like, Okay. And so we calculated the number of payments, who was paying like, $50? A week, right? So you'd have this many payments left? And I said, So tell me what is your payments now? And his words $38. I said, How many payments do you have now? And he said, I have a 220. And I said, bro, how much did you pay for the tool? He said, $3,500. I said, Tell me how it is? The tool goes from $3,400 and you owe them 1800. to Now you're going to pay them 10,000. Right? Explain that logic to me how that saves you money. We post the question in the group, right? We've got this. It's called the changing the industry, podcast group. Lots of technicians, lots of owners, lots of people, some people got mad at me and said I shouldn't put my nose in it was none of my business. Right? Some people got mad at the tool dealer and said he has a responsibility to make sure that that technician at least understands, right when you finance something now I'm sure you find it something you look at it and tells you how many payments it's going to be what your total payment. That's correct. Turns out he just skipped that page. He didn't show him that page when it was getting the signatures he just scanned across it and didn't say anything about it. What what do you feel about that? You've been on both sides of that have been
Jake Fruth 34:29
on both sides. I mean, it reduces weekly. If you're smart as a technician and you're buying things right. It's it's an overall benefit. Because if I need the tool now to work faster, work more efficient, and I can drop my payment from 50 to 38. Okay, that makes sense. But if I'm just buying something, because it's going to lower my weekly, but it's ultimately going to increase the overall then that may not be the best decision for me. The other thing that I've done Uh, in looking at the mobile tool business, I didn't just jump at Matco, I had looked at the other companies, and due to the quality of the tool, and other things is why I ultimately chose Matco, one of the big ones, and I experienced this as a tech, I had really good snap on dealer, I bought a lot of tools from him, right. But I hated their finance, because their finance compounds that interest on a daily basis, like a credit card, and you will pay four times as much if you're paying their minimum payment. Yeah, Mack who has a simple contract, it's done like a car loan, it 90 days, same as cash, I believe snap on has the same. But then we it's only compounded once a month. So if you dropped down to 38, but you still pay your 50, you will, you'll pay less, you're gonna pay more because you added something to the contract. Obviously, Rachel paid less than what sort of, than what the the total would have been, and the total will never go higher. Right. And then we report good credit to all three credit bureaus. So if you know a lot of technicians, they don't have credit to start with, right, or they've done something stupid at some point in time, they got a little extra money during the summer, they got an ATV, they got behind some scenario like that. And they're not bad people, they just don't have the credit where they need it to be. And so in reporting the good credit to all three bureaus gives me the ability to boost my score back up. Yeah. And maybe I can roll that to a bank loan moving forward dropped the interest paid off sooner, yeah, maybe I can. Because of our tiered interest system, where I can be as low I think as 9.99. Don't quote me on that it changes but it is tiered, right? Where maybe I started at 20 399, in my first couple PSAs with Matco. And through making those proper payments, I can now get some extra tools that I need, lower my monthly but don't lower my payment and lower my interest rate where the overall works out better for me.
Lucas Underwood 37:03
Do you think that that we have an issue with financial education, big time?
David Roman 37:10
That sounds overly complicated, and it makes perfect sense. I understand everything you said. But you shouldn't have to do that, as a tech. Start thinking in those terms,
Jake Fruth 37:21
I think I think you need to just in general, what I always did is I would run the contract for 91 days with snap on. And then I'd run down to the bank with my what's my car note, and I never borrowed more than my car note would cover, right. And I'd get a loan from the bank and pay the Houthi off earlier. Yeah. And then the next time,
David Roman 37:42
you're like, you're managing all that. I mean, that's all something like I would do, managing the shops, finances, to game the system, as much as I could spread it out with paying the least amount of interest. I don't know that I want my technicians messing with that. It's like they get a salary. If they need the tool, I'll just buy it for him, I can write it off. It's whatever.
Jake Fruth 38:07
Well, and that's an aspect that I've heard from a lot of shop owners. And I think that that's another way to repair the system is that some of the shop owners are providing the storage, they're providing the tools that they need. And if they want something that they specifically like they can absolutely add it. I've some shop owners, you know, past couple of days, one of them mentioned something. I've heard it done in different ways, but his way, kind of stood out to me. His guys are paid on an hourly per flag, they're they're on a flat rate, if they hit 40 hours in a week, he adds five hours to a bank to a lottery or something for them. And so when a week comes up, where he can't produce enough work for them to produce 40 hours, right, they can pull from that bank up to 40 hours. So through as per your slip through the scenario of interesting, something happening and hit his tech runs 20 hours, but he was there all week. And he he worked efficiently on everything that was thrown at him there just wasn't enough thrown at them. If he's got 20 hours in the bank, he can make that a 40 hour week.
Lucas Underwood 39:19
So I'm uh I don't know how you feel about I hate flat rate. And it's not that and I have a hybrid system. Alright, so no matter what, right, there's nobody My shop is going hungry. They didn't turn hours one week. Okay. Right. They're still getting paid 40 hours that week. And it's pretty good money for 40 hours. Right? I'm not afraid to say they're one of the things that when we talk about flat rate, and we talked about doing away with flat rate that people get upset about is because they said well, you're taking my ability to earn more in production away, right and I can understand that. So that's why I put the hybrid plan in place to make sure that When it goes up, and we manage that number pretty closely, right? We're, we're targeting a number on the p&l to say, hey, we're close to where we need to be, as far as labor costs goes, make sure they're paid fairly, make sure they're getting their money. But I like the idea that the shop can have a protection plan for its people. In the event, something happens now you you do this anyway, right? Your guys have a problem, something goes wrong. They need help you help them. Dutch does the same thing. I do the same thing. Like if our people need help, we help our people. But the concept of banking, the banking sense, what are you talking about? Well, financially, like if they get into a snow?
David Roman 40:38
Well, yeah, but now look, I if they if they are tied, they've made a bad choice. Sure. I agree. Because I'm paying them well enough that they shouldn't, right. And this isn't like, Hey, I'm a little tight because I made a down payment on my house. Now this is you bought something stupid, or you're making a car payment that you shouldn't be making, or you're paying 200 bucks a month in total payments that you shouldn't have to make in right, like I understand. I'm not going to buy a guy, a three bay toolbox, they really would need to know, you, you get them in a nice, a nice, a nice toolbox, that's one thing. But then it's a you know, at some point, it becomes an ego thing. Like I just want to have a bigger toolbox, I wanted the biggest tool because they're cool, I get it, I get it. But it becomes unnecessary, like through the cycle to make you more productive. So at that point, it's a conversation. But if they made a bad choice, the conversation is not me bailing them out, of course, let's see why this happened. Let's prevent this from happening.
Jake Fruth 41:49
Identify what happened and what what strategic things do we put into place to keep it from happening again.
Lucas Underwood 41:55
But now if it's an emergency situation, or the emergency is different, yeah. Yeah, we'll help.
David Roman 42:02
But you know, like, I buy my, I try to make things as easy as possible, while also looking at tax savings for me is something like tools, or not tools, I'm sorry, parts for their vehicles. I don't buy everything. They pay me if it's like a wife's car or something like that, but like we've bought, and as a bonus, you know, they got a toy. And hey, I'm building an engine for my toy, I need a rotating assembly. $1,600. Okay, we buy it. And I write the whole thing off. But they're not paying out of pocket. Which, you know, essentially is a bump in their pay absolutely a $1,600 bonus tacked on top of what they've made this year, right. You know, those, those little things add up. The important part is communicating it to your staff. So then conveniently forget when they're like, Hey, you didn't give me much of raises you like hey, you remember the $3,000 and tooling? I bought you earlier. Oh, and the $1,500 in parts? Oh, yeah. It's like yeah, that would have been out of your own pay out of pocket. Right for Yeah, Dyngus
Jake Fruth 43:19
I don't know that. I go back and forth. If you're paying them hourly, they need to be productive. If you're paying them flat rate, you got to you got to keep the shop loaded. And I've I've seen guys do excellent work and flag 80 hours a week. And I've seen guys do bad work and flag 80 hours a week because that's where they need to be. I always tried to gauge myself on living on the 40 hour Yeah, and then anything over was a bonus and the bonus went to Bill's Yeah, pay something off early to get me in a better spot the next time everything goes down because except for the last shop there was a guarantee there was a guarantee all the other shops you fly 20 hours you walked home with 20 hours even at the dealership, but see
David Roman 44:14
that for me the philosophy bothers me because like I'm trying to remove added stress. And I'm so paranoid about don't forget to tighten this bowl. Don't don't screw up this repair. Like don't stress about hey, I didn't make my 40 This week I only got 32 Right and so I had to rush Yes. Last job through or hey, that car needs a little extra suspension work if you know what I mean when quick nod and you're like I
Jake Fruth 44:54
did that's the bad component of it. Absolutely. And I think I think Hi rude about it is a better spot, but I don't know if there's anything perfect.
David Roman 45:04
Yeah, at the Jamaican some concessions, the shop
Jake Fruth 45:07
owners, you know that we've been talking to the past couple of days. Some are full of flag. Some are full salary. I think one of them is a is a hybrid, like you mentioned here. I don't know that there's a, that there's a magic sauce. I think it depends a little on where you are and how you want to run your business.
Lucas Underwood 45:32
Right? Well, I think it depends on educating your people. It comes back to making sure that we're giving them the tools and the resources they need to be successful.
Jake Fruth 45:42
So what do you guys do with the changing landscape? That is changing on a daily basis, those headlights? When a new vehicle comes in, say it's the same making model? It's just a new year model. But there's new components there. Or they've changed the strategy, or is it what are you guys doing for your text to be up to date on the latest? That's rolling in your shops?
Lucas Underwood 46:07
So we train and my shop we've got 100 hour a year minimum now to do.
Jake Fruth 46:12
What do you use for training?
Lucas Underwood 46:14
We use everything from the CTI and WTI to we go to trade shows gotcha ASCE okay North Carolina,
David Roman 46:22
I make them watch YouTube videos. The the
Jake Fruth 46:25
Do you have the patch? YouTube certified?
Lucas Underwood 46:28
Hey, now the scanner. Danner is YouTube. And that is some legit
David Roman 46:34
legit stuff behind the paywall. You got to pay for the
Lucas Underwood 46:38
camera downers. Yes, yep.
David Roman 46:39
So the issue though, is the I have a problem with every every technician that's like that says that flat rate little, not having flat rate limits, the amount of work that they're able to, or the amount of money they're able to make. That's been ingrained in them. If you're going to sell houses, like yeah, you're going to sell houses, you're going to live or die about how much by how many, by the amount of houses you sell. For you sign up for that. This isn't selling houses, right. This isn't peddling flooring. This isn't are selling roofs. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, this this is a you're you're a bit ability is in diagnosing and repairing the vehicle? Learning the new systems? Yep. All right, staying on top of technology. That's where your skill set is. For somebody that needs to work on commission. What's their skill set need to be closing the sale? Right, finding the lead, qualifying the lead and then closing the sale. That's what they need to focus in on. I mean, it's great. That it's great that they know real estate, but if they're good salesperson, yeah, if they're a really good salesperson, they can sell just about anything and go sell cars. And that doesn't mean the quality
Lucas Underwood 48:07
or the dirt. Right?
David Roman 48:10
What what what are you talking about quality?
Lucas Underwood 48:13
I'm just saying if if they don't have to know the car, right?
David Roman 48:18
They don't need to know the car they could get they don't need to know. That's my point. How many salespeople have you met that knew the car? Well, not many? Not many. Yeah. And houses. It's a house like hey, do you want to live in this thing? I know the neighborhood. This is a nice neighborhood. Do you want to buy the house, they have to learn how to close the sale, how to get leads, how to qualified leads, and how to close the sale. That's because they're on commission. The technician shouldn't need to know any of that garbage. They shouldn't be on technician. Your job is to know the vehicle, learn the systems diagnose it and fix it properly. Therefore, your pay structure can't be Luminato mucho, burper. Like, that's BS student. That's BS. We want to try to pack in as much work as possible into your day. That's how it is in every other job. white collar jobs, they pack in as many projects as possible in your 40 to 50 ish hour a week. You're just trying to get as much work done to make the company as productive as possible. should be there. Should there be a little back end bonus Yeah, there should be a little a little profit share, but doesn't necessarily need to be dollars. Right in our shop. It's not dollars necessarily. There's there's $1 component to it. But you know, there's perks. That's what makes everybody happy on the perks, but it's the it's the focus on what you're doing. If your commission your focus is completely different, because because you understand your earning potential is unlimited. And so you need to focus on specific skills that does not translate into automotive. Mike Allen is 100%. Wrong, it does not translate into I'm just telling you, it doesn't translate into automotive. And what you just asked should bury every single flat rate shop out there. It should, because that what they asked up there earlier, how many of your flat rate? How many of you guys that are flat rate are paying your technicians to read and study and research that component that system, the OEMs, when they were setting up on that port, what were they talking about? Training, figure out how the system works, figure out how the system look that takes time. I've factored that into my pay structure into the business strategy that's 100% factored into my pay structure, it is not factored into the flat rate system, unless they deliberately added in. And you're talking about shops or giving away diagnostic time to see any of them charging for research time.
Jake Fruth 51:03
No. And then you imagine no. And the other guys that I worked with, were weren't increasing their knowledge. I had a, I had a budget myself, and AC Delco guy would come in and pitch it to the shop. I remember the first time in the aftermarket world I met the shop at the Sudoko guy comes in says hey, we're gonna have a technician training using the scope, you know, the setting the other? And I was I'm just standing there going Cool. All right. And shop owner goes no, no, we're not interested. And I caught him out the parking lot. And I said, What is his cause? He goes, it's 350 bucks, three and a half hours and we feed you it's over here at this restaurant to set the other, went home, found it, paid it and you know, and that was for me, because I knew that I wasn't going to be at that shop forever. Right now is going to move on. So that makes more sense that you know as you that explanation leads me towards, you know, the hourly pay the salary.
David Roman 52:03
It's it's got to be that way your focus? Well in something
Jake Fruth 52:07
I don't remember I don't always think about is when your flat rate. You're also that that speed you're working at not only leads to you know, Miss repairs, misdiagnosis is it leads to physical injury? Yeah, absolutely. Am I Oh, four can work out for that, right? You see guys picking up four tires, for tires, you know, picking up picking up stuff, they shouldn't be picking up picking the transmission up and stabbing it real quick to the back of the engine, because it's gonna take too long to walk down and get the transmission jack, because they need to get to the next job. Yeah, so no, I'm, I'm falling. And, you know,
Lucas Underwood 52:49
here's the thing is, is if I want a technician to invest in himself, I want him to invest his time into training. Right? That's really all I'm interested in. And, and look, I know that some technicians may say, hey, well, I might want to move on, I get that 110% don't have a problem with that. And I see investing in handles and things like that. I think that's great. But I think the shop should really be investing in the bulk of the expense of repairing the car, you know what I mean? Yep, they need to be investing in the Information Systems, I know Tech's who are paying for all data. That's ridiculous, right?
David Roman 53:27
Those texts are the reason why the industry is leave that shop doing.
Jake Fruth 53:34
So one of the things that we're doing is addressing that with a rap assist, okay, and it's got four tools, and one, one of them gives you access to an IVs 360 desk kind of mechanics that spent three years at that brand. So if I get a BMW in front of me, I get going into the diagnostic procedure. And it's new, it's a new strategy. It's maybe a code I haven't worked with on that BMW before, I can call that hotline and talk to a BMW specialist. And now we powwow together. And that's technically on the job training for that, because I'm getting his experience and knowledge, they can share with me the repair information, they can actually access through that tool with their factory scan tool and look at things and I've taken it around and seen it. It helps in incremental areas. And when implemented, it can overall increase things. It's got the J box built into it. And if I don't know how to use the J box, I can call it same desk pay that service fee and they'll walk me right through step a to step Z of flashing a vehicle now I'm smarter with that. Right. And so that's one of the things you know, we look at and try to fill in that gap. Because shops are not many shops are not built like you guys seem to have your shop set up in investing in that extra training,
David Roman 54:57
while the technician also is not walking into the door. I'm thinking, I'm going to do an hour of reading today. Correct? Yeah. But that's that's the problem. It's the same. It's the same technician that is getting angry that the headlight is overly complicated. There's just a headlight. Why am I have a no scan a headlight? Okay, dude, are you did you do your reading today? Did you see how the system works before you decided you were going to diagnosis headlamp system? And no, what I did was like, Okay, well, now we have a problem, the mindset, the approach to the repair has got to change. And so the technicians focus in their, in their the work they put towards gaining new skills needs to change and shift into not getting faster, necessarily. But reading comprehension. Yeah. And applying the what their knowledge to the vehicle in the system that needs to be paramount. And not, hey, how do I figure out how to do this job faster,
Jake Fruth 56:08
but it goes back to slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Yeah. And if you take the right steps to learn it, and walk through it the right way, the first time, the second time was faster, the third time was faster, and you do build that speed and you can close your eyes and knock out that procedure. True. And because you put the steps into place the first time in not just diagnosing it, and but taking it apart grouping components correctly. So the right bolt goes back in the right hole and in this set and the other that when I'm done with the car, I know I did everything. And that goes to tool organization. Yeah, where you can speed up just by having your tools properly aligned. And if you have them properly aligned, you get done, you glance over at your cart, they're all back where they're supposed to be, all the bolts are gone. And I've been following that same procedure, I can repeatedly knock that job out. And everybody be confident that every bolt is torqued correctly. All the gaskets made it on there, all the brackets are where they're supposed to be. And all my tools are back on my cart.
David Roman 57:20
This is why I keep saying that you cannot be a technician successful and then have ADHD that just came along xiety Everything you just said there just gave me a massive on anxiety. And I'm thinking oh my sharp and like, technician doesn't clean up. And you know, these, these are smart guy and they know better. But it's it turns into habits like you're saying, Yeah, it's a habit. Force yourself to go back, clean and organize. And then things do end up going a lot quicker, a lot smoother. You think of Chris, clean up your tools.
Lucas Underwood 57:54
You think of you think of here this in like two months. You think of a shop like Tom shear. Right? And and you look at Tom shop. Yeah. And you say everything has a spot. Everything has a spot. It's clean. It's organized. And it's a byproduct of the car that he's working on. So by product, the client that he has, it's what his organization does. And you know, we were talking about I probably shouldn't say this again. We're talking about the new Toyota commercial. Have you seen it? I don't guess I have it. What it is, is it's a Toyota commercial. And they're saying like, Hey, you should probably use factory trained technicians, instead of using this guy. And it's this hairy, greasy, nasty looking guy and bib overalls with duct tape wrapped around a tire. Right. Okay. All right. And and so, if we want to change the image of our industry, if we want to change the professionalism of our industry, if we want to take things to that next level, then we all have a responsibility in that we all have to take actions we have to take steps to get us there. Right? Yep. And it can't just be David. It can't just be Jake, it can't just be technician, Bob. It's going to take all of us working systematically to begin to improve things we got to start making decisions to make our industry better
David Roman 59:15
Sure well knows you have guys like the guy that bought that shop that you're in that and see it's an investment. So how do I make the most amount of money as fast as possible? Well, that's gonna be flat right? That's gonna be 2499 oil changes or 14 And yeah, what does my calendar
Lucas Underwood 59:34
I think it's not 99 right now.
David Roman 59:38
Looking up you're right. That the there's a shop owner there. He was a shop owner. He sold the shop. At the very first a sock dinner. We we decided we were going to just all get together and we talked to each other online and we're going to meet up at Vision Are you familiar with John Kasich? I guess? No vision. It's a big trend out there. In Kansas City.
Lucas Underwood 1:00:06
There's three primary trade shows and trainings in the US. You got a Ste in September in North Carolina. Shameless plug. Yeah, absolutely. You've got vision in March in Kansas City. You've got apex and Sema, right on the west coast in November. There's also in October, smaller regional
David Roman 1:00:26
ones. So they're small Saturdays. But so this is a this is a events been going on 3132 years. And it's it's big, over 1000 people attend. And it's a big event. So we decided we're going to, we're all going to show up at this event. And we're all going to meet for dinner. And the shop owner shows up and he owns a shop down the street. And he's listening to us talk and it's kind of like chuckling to himself. He's like, Yeah, I do 2499 full synthetic oil changes. I buy the oil for $2 and change from the sky. If he doesn't sell it to me. I'll buy it from this other guy. One of them's gonna give it to him for this two laws of change. He's like, I have a $450 Aaro. We Pat, I've told base now I pack as many cars in there as possible. And he's like, No, I have to keep this participant. It's like 56% GP and I told all my staff and they're all on commission, they're all flat rate, all of their service advisor on commission, his and he was wanting to grow the business to a certain size. He started as a technician didn't know what he was doing was one symbol. Sorry. They hooked up, got hooked up with the coaching companies that were like, Oh, you can scale this. He scaled it to the point where he was doing two and a half million plus dollars a year. And he sold it. Now. He's with the new Mrs. On a boat in the Bahamas. That's what he does. He takes pictures of himself fall. And, you know, Fisher Yeah, that's what he that's, that's that's the thing. That's been sold to everybody as the ideal. Alright. Now, Mike Allen, I don't know what his deal is. But whatever. But the day, maybe one day,
Jake Fruth 1:02:12
it's near probably get into it. But that business structure doesn't help anybody. It doesn't help the customer doesn't help. It helps one person helps one person. Whoever comes in behind him, if he's looking to do credible service and credible repairs, he's gonna lose a huge amount of his clientele, because his price is gonna have to go up only way.
David Roman 1:02:32
Yeah, absolutely. If all of a sudden he's like, Hey, we're not putting this cheap, full synthetic that can barely be called full synthetic in every barrel of
Jake Fruth 1:02:40
oil. And I've seen that before where it probably wasn't even the right viscosity. It was probably a bulk viscosity. Yeah. It may or may not have been synthetic. It just had that label on it.
David Roman 1:02:53
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, there's different classes of synthetic true. And that's guaranteed not Exos to approved full synthetic, right. And it might be 520, and 530s. All he carries, and everybody gets the same oil change, right. And he's using a $2.59 oil filter, right? So you're selling them full synthetic, they think they can go 10,000 miles. But that oil filter is designed to go five, you're not explaining any of this to the consumer. They're just getting a 20 from they're getting a good deal on the oil change. And by the way, you need brakes, suspension, and right, on and on. It goes. They're doing a complete disservice to the industry. But everybody has been sold that as the ideal. That's what so many gravitate to in that shop is an overwhelming force. In this industry, that layout is an overwhelming force. And I think unstoppable. I just don't, I don't understand I have met sweet people with the best of intentions. That said, I don't care what you say, I was doing $650,000 A year, doing it the right way. And now I'm doing $2.1 million. And I'm adding a nother section to my building. And I have happy customers and blah, blah, blah, blah, and I'm doing all this good charity work and this that and the other
Jake Fruth 1:04:22
but they wouldn't. His customers probably wouldn't think that way. If they knew the reason for the short life of their engine or other components on that car wasn't the car manufacturers fault. But who is servicing it
Lucas Underwood 1:04:35
even beyond that, though? I don't think that they're in tune with the business enough to know that their customers are happy. Some of the people who teach that model teach to like just, you know, pay away bad reviews,
Jake Fruth 1:04:50
and I don't think enough of them. I don't think all of them are intentionally no perfect. I'm going to serve as because they probably don't come from the automotive industry. They rely on who they trust and who they trusted sold them. It. It's
David Roman 1:05:09
I know a lot of them have come from the industry. But all they know is how much they struggled before it's now the rakin rates, the frog
Lucas Underwood 1:05:19
in the boiling water. Right, right. Because before they were on the front counter, and even if they knew, let me rephrase that, even if they didn't know, if that was the right thing for the client, maybe they would take the time to learn was that the right thing? Is that the right role for the car is that this that or the other. And so somebody comes in, and they tell them, hey, there's a better way to do this. And you can make a lot more money. And so they start with something that they would feel comfortable with, right? And they say, Hey, do this. And then they start making more money. So they get that little bit of money in their pocket. Now, guess what that person has a reputation within they have experience that says when they save this, this happens. And so slowly, the moral moves, David always talks about the 1080 10 rule. And he talks about 10% of people, if a piece of bread falls off of a truck, that person would run over there, and they pick that piece of bread up and they'd run it up to the truck and say, Here you go, even when they were starving. Yeah, right. And then the other 10 person on the other side, would go up and would take that piece of bread and eat it, even if they were foolish could be just because there's a piece of bread there doesn't matter whose it is, right. And the other percentage in the middle, the 80% would move based on the scenario, the things that were happening in their lives, all of these different things, right? Just walk
Jake Fruth 1:06:45
past the bread. Well, no,
David Roman 1:06:46
they know, they'll adjust if they're hungry. It's like, well, I'm starving. I have to Oh, I see what you're saying, right? Where they're like, Well, I better walk this back. I'm not even that hungry. And I really don't need this bread. Before an iPhone, they're going to keep the iPhones like, well, they should have paid more attention to that. Their, their, their perception or their their perception of what's right and wrong, shifts,
Jake Fruth 1:07:11
right.
Lucas Underwood 1:07:12
And bends relative. And so that exposure to the fact that hey, it's making more money, hey, it's doing this thing. It's been doing something wrong, right. And so all of a sudden, they they relate money to success, they relate money to morals, they relate money to ethics, they relate money to doing what's right. Right. They're not the one on the front counter anymore, right? They're not the person putting up with it. They're not the technician in the bag, who they keep going to and say, Hey, could you install this super cheap part? And by the way, I'm going to need you to take one for the team, we're gonna knock an hour off that is that okay? Right. Yeah. And so slowly, but surely, what does it do? It builds resentment builds hate builds. And then the next thing you know, not only do you have a situation where they're making a ton of money, they don't care. But now you got people in the back who because of the way they're paid, they're having to hustle a little bit, and they're having to recommend things that Carter need. And they're having to do things just to pay the bills, because the system is rigged against them. Right, right.
Jake Fruth 1:08:11
I ran into that at the shop that I managed. And, you know, had to forgive several times. Because I knew it was coming from Yeah, you could tell from their behavior. They weren't doing it intentionally. They were doing it out of habit. They were doing it because that's how they used to have to survive the exam. So you'd have to ask for that relationship comes back into play it we'd go sit down, go hey, walk me through this. Yeah. Why did why did we Why did this happen? And you get the immediate excuses. And then you got to dive in deeper. Yeah. And then it was like it go so well. I guess we'll turn our uniforms in tomorrow. Why? Or I need you out on the floor. Yeah, we've got a line of cars because I'm not fired. No, you're not fired. We need to correct this. We're all human. We're gonna make mistakes. It's it's not so much what you do is what you do about what you do. Amen. And, and there's not enough of that in this in this world, much less the industry. Amen, buddy. But it's a huge challenge. And to your point, it's going to take everybody involved to correct it.
Lucas Underwood 1:09:22
Yes, sir. Thank you so much for being here.
Jake Fruth 1:09:24
No problem. Thank you for having me. Of course.