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This podcast and community breaks the silence, shame, and fear that often surrounds sexuality, unwanted pornography use, and betrayal trauma and helps you embrace your God-given sexuality with courage compassion and connection. People just like you share their stories of recovery and forgiveness and experts teach principles, share insights, and provide real tools to help you rebuild trust and develop healthy sexuality. Ask your questions anonymously and expert therapist, Rachel Denton, will answer them and discuss practical tools to help and gain insight as to how ecclesiastical leaders can play an effective and powerful role in your healing. Join Crishelle Simons as she breaks the silence and together we can create a culture of courage, compassion, and connection.
This podcast is brought to you by Reach 10. Reach 10 is a non-profit with a mission to educate and help young adults overcome the effects of pornography and betrayal trauma and create healthy relationships with themselves and others.
Join the community at @breakingthesilence_reach10 or visit reach10.org.
We share these views to open the dialogue and educate on these tough issues and to create a healthier culture of sexuality. The opinions and views shared by the host or guests do not constitute as professional advice or services and do not necessarily reflect the views of Reach 10, and we don't guarantee the accuracy of any statements you hear. Reach 10 is not responsible for your use of information heard in this podcast. We keep learning, and invite you to join us as we build a more open, compassionate, and courageous culture.
BTS 2.8 Creating a Marriage worth having with Dan Purcell
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Crishelle: [00:00:00] Welcome back. I'm so glad you're here. Breaking the silence was created to be a place where you can come to find more courage, compassion, and connection. You deserve it. If you or someone, you know, is done trying to quit porn and change on their own try. Really, my friend Chandler created the relay app so that you can have the connection, support, and tools you need to change any time you need them right on your phone. I have used the app and really love it. Use the link in the show notes to start your free trial today. My friend, no one needs to try to change on their own they're support available now and always.
I am so excited to be breaking the silence today with Dan Purl, and he is so awesome and he's gonna introduce himself in just a second. Today we are going to be breaking the silence on how to create a marriage worth having, and we're gonna be talking about intimacy and how we're coming awkward, and really [00:01:00] how to create relation, a relationship, and specifically a marriage relationship worth.
Having, because there's a lot of the things that can go in the way of it being worth having. Anyway, we'll get into that more listeners, but I'm so excited to introduce you to Dan. Dan, go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do.
Dan: Yes. My wife and I have been married for 19 years and we have six children. I love to run. I like cracking dad jokes. And I, I guess I'm kind of a creative guy. I like, like the creative dates. Like I was totally into creative dating as a teen and as a young college student, and I've carried a lot of that into my marriage.
So that's kind of like a fun thing that I like to do. I am the founder of Get Your Marriage On with my Wife. And this started six years ago and we'll probably get into a little bit of how that hall started today, but through Get Your Marriage On, we have a podcast called Get Your Marriage On. We have apps.
The most popular app is called the [00:02:00] Intimately US App, which I know you use and download and, and have. So it's a fun app for married couples. I also put on retreats and also coach couples and individuals on how to build a healthy marriage and with healthy sexuality.
Crishelle: Yes. He has so many cool apps. In fact, I didn't even know how many apps you had until I was looking into your website more fully. I was so impressed with the amount of apps that you have, but also the broad range from intimately us, which is such an awesome. App used for it is just a great place. I love going there to get questions to ask my husband on date night.
'cause sometimes I'm like, okay, I'm done talking about the same six things that we talk about every date night. But you have such a great list of questions in there. But also games and just different fun things. It's such a fun app, but I love also your, your texting app and I can't
Dan: Just between us.
Crishelle: between us. Yes. Big fan of that one as well. And then [00:03:00] I didn't know that you had an app about pornography, overcoming pornography. Which one's that, what's
Dan: Yeah, it's called Life After Pornography, and I've teamed up with Dr. Cameron Staley, who's an expert in this field about how to overcome pornography use and everything like that. So that's a, that's a really fun, very in-depth app for anyone who's ever struggled or wants to overcome pornography for good.
Crishelle: Oh man. I feel like we could spend a whole podcast just talking about your different apps. What I liked about that, about your overcoming Pornography app is that it was focused on mindfulness. From what I saw, I haven't downloaded it yet, but I'm gonna check it out, and I really love that because I think oftentimes when we have things in our life, whether it's pornography or. Like a food addiction or a social media addiction or a substance abuse addiction, like any of those things, it's often coming from a place of we were wanting to escape and to [00:04:00] avoid rather than be present in our experience. So I love that it's mindfulness focused. So, so cool. So cool. So, All of these things are so great for the world, and we definitely, I will, I will link all of these things in our show notes listeners, so that you can just find them for yourself because they're awesome.
All of his apps and especially his podcast. He's got some really great stuff. But I wanna jump into our, into our topic today, which is creating a marriage worth having, and. Part of marriage and part of a marriage worth having is sex. But has there ever been a time in your life when talking about sex or maybe even the thought of building an an app centered around sex, felt like the most awkward thing in the world?
Dan: Absolutely. Yes, that's absolutely so like when my wife and I were dating, getting serious and when the topic of sexual intimacy [00:05:00] and any like hint, I. Kind of came up, we're both so shy about it, we didn't really talk about it. We'd like kind of steer the conversation the other way. And that part of it's like thinking that was the right thing to do, just not knowing any better.
So I remember like two weeks before I. We're getting married and I had an interview with my bishop and I told him, like, Bishop, I can't help, but I just, I just have sexual thoughts about my wife, about soon to be wife, you know, like, help me. Like this isn't worthy of me. I'm not supposed to be doing. He looked at me, he's like, kinda like, you're weird, but it's like,
Crishelle: It's like,
Dan: gotta understand my bishop.
He is like the, the stereotypical accountant personality, like, Not a lot of personality.
Crishelle: Gotcha.
Dan: guy, and he looks at me and he is like, Yeah, well, I fantasize about my wife all the time. My jaw dropped. Like, really? You're allowed to do that? That's okay. [00:06:00] And anyway, he's like, oh, I'm glad you're having these fantasies.
That's normal. And so I walked outta his office kind of confused because I thought it was wrong to have sexual desires and thoughts and things because I'm not married yet or whatever. It's so under wraps, right? It's so much anxiety about everything. And here he is saying like, Hey, congratulations. You're normal and this is what you're supposed to experience, so, that was kind of a breath of fresh air.
I think our wedding night was wonderful. We had such a, like a great day, a great wedding, and sex was so new to us. And of course we didn't talk about it beforehand, what would happen, but part of it, part of what made it funny and interesting was just my expectations didn't meet reality. For me, for example, all the love songs talk about, you're supposed to be making love all night long, so, and I, it didn't happen all night long, right?
My body doesn't function that way. And I thought, there's gotta be something [00:07:00] wrong with me. So that was kind of awkward, but talking about it was awkward, like, how do I talk about this? Because also my wife has just about the same level of experience as me, a k a zero. So kind of like fumbling through this together.
I remember a few weeks after we were married I wanted to like get some answers, but I had no one to turn to. I didn't know if it was even okay to ask these questions, but I can be a pretty sneaky guy. So I thought I was, I was a university student, so I went to like the library and in the search system I typed like, Sex.
It was probably the first time I typed that word out loud. Like that
Crishelle: Out
Dan: type out loud. That's funny to say, but I type
Crishelle: it probably. It probably felt really loud. Yeah,
Dan: Yes, exactly
Crishelle: You're probably blushing as you were typing it,
Dan: Exactly. Yeah. I hope no one sees what I'm typing on this screen, but my curiosity drew me in, like, what, what can this library offer? And one of the first results was like [00:08:00] a textbook on human sexuality. I'm like, aha, that's it. That will help me. So I wrote down the call number and I go to that section of the library.
It's like on the third floor and my, I get there and no one else is there. Thank goodness. My eyes shift to the left and right. Make sure no one's looking at me. I find the book, I pull it off the shelf, tuck it underneath my arm, and I quickly go down the stairs to like the place where you check out the books.
And to my horror is this attractive young lady doing, you know, scanning the books for checkout. So I don't make any eye contact with her. I don't want her to like, what is she gonna think of me, you know, checking out this book. I put in my bag, I run home, and later that evening I'm sitting at a table with my wife and I flip open the book and I'm leafing through the books sorry, through the pages.
And there's a, like a illustration. There's a section with different illustrations of different sex positions and Looking back, there was [00:09:00] nothing distasteful about anything. And it's human sexuality, just explaining like, this is the 69 position and this is what this is, and it just had these things.
But I like freaked out. Like, oh no, I'm not supposed to be looking at any of this. This is like pornography or whatever that thought was in my mind. Right? Like, So I, I closed the book. I didn't even read it, and I returned it the next day. Never to like look at it again because I, I was so awkward about everything
Crishelle: Totally.
Dan: and so I.
And there's just messages we picked up that kinda affected our marriage for good or for bad. But it's like, like you hear people say anything unnatural isn't good to have in, you know, in your sexual relationship and so whatever. But they never define what natural and or unnatural is. So it's all just up to our narrow and, and rigid interpretation So anyway, so there's a lot of awkwardness with sexuality and all that [00:10:00] changed one day.
Well, I wouldn't say it all changed suddenly, but it seemed like it changed suddenly 13 years into my marriage, I am having a discussion with a friend. And my friend opens up to me and tells me about his sex life with his wife. And I am blushing during this conversation. 'cause you're, it's taboo. You're not supposed to talk about any of these things.
Right?
Crishelle: Totally.
Dan: Right.
Crishelle: It's so funny because I feel like I, I, I get shocked and I have a podcast about sex. I get shocked when
Dan: I.
Crishelle: talk to me about it. I'm like, oh, we're going there. What?
So I
Dan: talk about breaking the silence, right? It's like, so this friend goes on to tell me, In some detail. Now, I wanted, I, not that he did say, he didn't say anything inappropriate or crossed a boundary because the reason why he was telling me these things is, is like trying to get my attention that sex is good.
It like when he and his wife really focused on their marriage, [00:11:00] their relationship improved tremendously. Like the bond between them grew stronger and they're communicating better. Like there's more excitement in the, in the marriage. But he is telling me things like oral sex and like stick figure sex position, like websites different techniques like hand jobs and other things.
And I am like kind of like having sex in a car and like I'm kind of like in shock that. He does these things. His wife does these things right? And I'm like, I, I didn't think good people were supposed to do anything. Like I thought it was supposed to be 10 minutes in a dark missionary position and that's it.
Anything outside of that's unnatural. But here he is really thoroughly enjoying a fun sexual relationship with his wife. And I'm like, I want that. He had something I didn't have. So I remember going home just really confused. 'cause like on one hand, aren't we [00:12:00] supposed to be spiritual people? And spiritual people don't think about sexuality at all.
And then yet I. Sex is good and bonding has all this excitement and fun. Shouldn't we be enjoying that too? And so kind of reconciling that , caused a lot of cognitive dissonance for me. Like it just, What I was taught versus what real new reality is. Just I had to really deconstruct that and reconstruct that in my mind.
And so I go home to my wife, say, Hey, you'll never guess what we talked about today. This is what, so part of the conversation with my friend is he told me that his wife in their marriage is probably the one with more sexual desire than him. And so she came to him and said, Hey, you're not essentially saying you're not a good enough lover.
You need to up your game. I'm not getting taken care of in bed like I want to be. You need to, you know, be a better lover. And he was offended at first, but then he really dug in and. Got better. And you know, things kind of went on from there. But I'm now self-conscious, so I'm looking at my wife and now I'm [00:13:00] wondering like maybe I'm not a good enough lover and she's never told me that.
Like, are there things, do we need to have a conversation here? Like how am I as a lover? Like what do you think about X or Y or Z? What do you think about what my friend said about looking at these websites or thinking about these books or whatever. We didn't even Google our sex questions, right? So that was probably one of the most vulnerable conversations we've had in our marriage around that topic to that point in our relationship
Crishelle: Oh, how beautiful.
Dan: and open.
Yeah. And we're up to like 2:00 AM that night talking about those things and then the next night we're up talking more and the next night and we're, we quickly learned that there's a lot that we did not know, but my wife is amazing. She's like, let's tackle this together. Let's jump, let's. Dive in together.
Let's figure this out, so, and figure it out. We did, we found some really good, helpful books written by Christian authors, which we felt comfortable with. And [00:14:00] we read some books together, found some really helpful podcasts and blogs and other resources and, and pretty soon.
Our own marriage started to really take off. You know, the bond between us became closer, we're communicating better. The sky is bluer. The grass is greener. Like I've got a pep in my step now and I'm like, can't wait to get home to see my beautiful wife. , all that creative dating, Creativity, found a new channel, we can be really creative in sex too.
So all that creative energy really got unleashed in the bedroom and we started having really meaningful connection and it was really good. It was really good.
Crishelle: That's so, that's so great and I'm so grateful that you were both willing to lean in and have that super vulnerable, probably felt really uncomfortable
Dan: Yes, Uhhuh,
Crishelle: conversation and to, to really look at like, well wait, what do we want? What, what is working, what maybe is not working and [00:15:00] what do we need help with?
That is so beautiful, and I, so as you talk about this maybe, and you described how, how much brighter and and happier everything was. you say that your marriage pre that conversation maybe how would you compare your, your marriage pre and post and, and I know that there was not just that one conversation.
Dan: I would say we had a good marriage, meaning like we did like a date night almost every week. It was really hard with little kids. A lot of them were stay home dates, but we would make time for each other. And leading up to that specific conversation, I had a career change where my work wasn't as stressful as it was before.
And so I was home, I was present more. And our oldest just turned 12 and is responsible enough that we could actually le sneak away for like an hour or two for a date. And it was a
Crishelle: I dream about those days currently.
Dan: [00:16:00] They actually do happen. When they happen. They're amazing. So like, I gotta say, like it was right, right place, right time for us.
Where we were and it only took our marriage from what was, I'd say, good to something like Holy Smokes, great. Like in that stage. Now, if we had a more difficult relationship, I still think it would've helped because the amount of personal growth required on each of us to grow towards each other would have solved other marriage issues.
'cause we both chose each other in it. We're both choosing like this matters, and we both see, hey, there's some good on the other side that can be had here. So I do think, like they say, really, you know, strengthen your marriage and then strong marriages equals great sex. And I think the other direction works too, improve your sex life.
And then your marriage strengthens also. So it, it flows both ways, that formula.[00:17:00]
Crishelle: I definitely agree with that, and I have seen, I mean, from a lot of the books I've read and from my own experience, I would say that it, it works both ways and, and I think part of that is because in order to have great sex, you need to have good intimacy. I. In order to have good intimacy, you need to allow the other person to truly see who you are and to really allow them in.
And it, and it requires partnership at a level that, like a good relationship or a good marriage misses,
Dan: Yes.
Crishelle: I'd say. And, and so as we talk about building a marriage worth having, what do you feel like are maybe some of the principles that. That can lead to a marriage worth having.
Dan: Well, maybe we can talk about that by first discussing what a. What a marriage not worth having might look
Crishelle: Oh, that's a great, that's a great thing to start with.
Dan: so there's [00:18:00] an obvious divorce, but there's also many couples that stay married. But there's no intimacy. Meaning there's no closeness. There's no warmth in the relationship, and some of your listeners might be able to relate to that or know of people that you know, experienced that, or parents or aunts and uncles and.
Part of that I think is just couples living parallel lives. They're really good roommates, but not good lovers. And part of the reason why they're roommates and not good lovers is they've learned that there are certain topics they can't talk about. 'cause if I talk about it upsets my spouse and when they upset my spouse, I hate having that, you know?
Things aren't at peace, I can't handle it. So they snap back into the old way of doing things. So a lot of marriages operate all intimate relationships, I believe are like a thermostat. There is this comfortable level. And so when you, when one spouse kind of brings up the [00:19:00] heat, the other one like brings it back down into equilibrium or if it, the other spouse gets too cold.
There's pressure in the relationship to bring it back to equilibrium. So we'd like to be kind of in this equilibrium, but the reality is, if you wanna grow your marriage and grow your relationship, you need to be able to be willing to step up and change the equilibrium from how you're operating now to something a little at a higher order, something a little better.
For example, I could have come home that night and just been like, Kind of ashamed of the conversation I had or maybe been afraid of what my spouse might think, and then I never opened my mouth and we never talked about sex. We would've stayed in our old equilibrium. Or I could have like kind of like danced around the subject and maybe brought it up a little bit and my wife shut it down because let's say she's uncomfortable, let's pretend that kind of brings it back in equilibrium and you continue that way [00:20:00] and then all of a sudden you kinda have a marriage that's kind. You're, you're cordial, you're polite, you get along, but there's no realness there because there's not, not enough room for each person in the relationship to truly express who they are in that relationship or truly grow and thrive, who they are with the other spouse, like, you know, gr growing too, or accepting that.
Crishelle: Yeah, I feel like I keep thinking the word it vulnerable and how it requires you to be vulnerable. It requires you to be willing to, to go there, to hold the space for your spouse to. Think and feel whatever they are thinking and feeling while you hold the space for your own emotions and meeting each other in, in that, and, and that requires a lot of vulnerability.
Dan: Yes, it does.
Crishelle: Whereas with a roommate, I could just be like, well, I just need you to take the garbage out [00:21:00] every Thursday night and. Be home from dinner or home for dinner on time. Like
Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uhhuh.
Crishelle: go through all of the logistics of life and have a very smooth and functioning and even beautiful life, without that vulnerability, there's not gonna be the intimacy then the growth and the passion that could, that could be there.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Crishelle: So maybe for a second, what would this look like in a dating relationship? Like if you wanted to have a great marriage, like if you wanted to build a, a marriage worth having, like what would you look for in maybe a dating or engaged relationship? Because it's a little bit different
Dan: Yes. But there's a lot of same principles.
Crishelle: Totally. So let's talk about maybe some of those similar principles that, what would that look like?
Dan: Okay, so I had a, I guess you could say a girlfriend that I was dating [00:22:00] before I dated my, my spouse, right? And our relationship was very fun. Lots of fun creativity, lots of excitement. But in the end I decided I love her company, but I really didn't like her a lot.
Like, but she liked me a lot. I, I, I couldn't see myself. Really attracted to her long-term, although there's aspects. I loved her as a fun friend 'cause she was a very fun person, but I just don't think we're a good match otherwise. And I remember one time having a conversation with her and I could tell she was a little down, so I asked her, why are you down?
And she says, well, I have a friend who I don't know if they like me or whatever. And. I was her friend. This conversation, she couldn't come out and just say it right, like, it's you, Uhhuh. And so I kind of like, is this friend me? She's like, [00:23:00] yeah, so, okay. And then so, so that's one aspect. She can see how part of the move for her was she was afraid to really own her position fully.
Crishelle: Interesting. Yeah.
Dan: And guess what? I was afraid to own my position too. 'cause I didn't wanna break her heart. I just, Didn't, so I just said like, I think you're wonderful and fun, and I, I lied to her face and said, I think we should keep dating, having fun and whatever. Even though my behavior didn't really match my words, right, it's because in the moment I didn't wanna see her upset.
I wanted her, her to calm down and feel okay with me so that I would feel okay with me. Because I couldn't tolerate someone being unhappy with me. So I'm like, real quick, calm, calm down, calm down, and calm her down so that I wouldn't feel uncomfortable that she's upset with me. Do you see how I'm like, I'm using her to calm myself down.
Crishelle: Totally. Mm-hmm.
Dan: we do this all the time in our relationships. [00:24:00] And so in your dating, just check for that. How authentic can you really, really be with this person? I. And can you date while dating this person? Tolerate the discomfort of them not fully seeing you where you are can or are they, or are they gonna lie to you and pretend things are good when their behavior shows otherwise?
So I, I would say watch out for that. After you meet your person, you're married, by the way, that principle still isn't a lot of operation and it work and will undermine your happiness and undermine the intimacy you can really have if you're always trying to manage your spouse. For example, I coached a woman last Friday where she kind of grew up with this mentality that sex is for the man.
So,
Crishelle: Just pretty common, especially I feel like maybe older generations especially.
Dan: Yep. [00:25:00] Sex is, you know, of course she knows she can have pleasure and orgasms and the wonderful things too. But ultimately sex is really about him and kind of 'cause he has more sexual desire than she has. And he gets grumpy when it's been a few days. So for her, it's like, oh, oh, oh. It's, I gotta, it's like a way to manage him.
I need to give him sex. And the reason why she's doing that is because if, if she feels like he's taken care of, he won't. Bother her so that she has some peace. So sometimes a thought comes across her mind like, oh good. Whew, we're done with that. I don't have to worry about it for three more days. Like, that's kind of her mentality.
Crishelle: Interesting. Yeah.
Dan: But do you see how that principle's, again, an operation where you're, you're trying to manage some, another person's emotions as a way of managing your own emotions? It's kind of like the cycle.
Crishelle: Totally, and I feel like, I feel like that really gets in the way [00:26:00] of true partnership because. You, you can't really, you, you don't trust the other person and you also don't
Dan: be
Crishelle: yourself. Yeah. The, there's no, there's no true honesty or trust because Yeah, you're always trying to like keep everything status quo.
Right. I, man, I think that's so fascinating. Both my husband and I were older when we got married. We were late twenties. I was 27. He was 29, and we had dated a lot
a lot of different people. And we were having a conversation the other day, and it was just kind of an offhand thing that he said. But he, he was just like, I remember one time we were having a conversation and I told you that I didn't like shopping at Walmart and you thought about it for a second, and this is when we were dating.
I had this conversation and you thought about it for a second, and then you were like, well, I shop at Walmart, so you gotta figure that one out. And I knew right then that [00:27:00] that. Like this could work because you were willing to like own the things that, and I know like Walmart is such a silly example, but he, he then, when in our conversation the other day, he was like, so many of my girlfriends in the past, like my ex-girlfriends, like when we'd break up, would tell me all the things that they were going to do now that they weren't in a relationship with me, like shop at Walmart and.
Eat this and like all of these, like things that they felt like they had to hide or not do while they were in this relationship with me. And I was like, well, that's silly. Like I just, but I, I mean, I, looking back, I remember, I remember having relationships where, yeah, there wasn't that congruency because I wasn't being honest or I felt like I had to hide a part of me.
And it was so refreshing to, and, and it took a level of maturity in myself to finally just be like, That's fine. If you don't like Walmart. I love Walmart and sometimes Walmart's the [00:28:00] only and the best option. So I'm not gonna give up Walmart. Like,
Dan: Huh. Right, right. Exactly.
Crishelle: like silly, but is is very profound in our relationships.
And, and the same thing happens in our sex. Like where I can't manage what he's thinking, I can't, he can't manage what I'm thinking or feeling and we have to allow. The other person to have their experience while, while doing our best to help them have the best experience, which is I think sometimes a very tricky, tricky thing to figure out, but is a really beautiful thing and so freeing when you do find that balance.
Dan: Yes, absolutely. Yes. I think that's the key to having a marriage worth having, having intimacy worth having,
Crishelle: Yeah,
Dan: is can you really be free [00:29:00] and open and honest with this person? Even if you disagree on things
Crishelle: Yeah, beautifully
Dan: there's every marriage, you're gonna have some things, okay? Lots of things you disagree on and some of the
Crishelle: and it might be like a million other things, like it is gonna be a lot. Yes.
Dan: And some things are gridlock issues. Gridlock, meaning like, Walmart is fine. You can shop at Walmart and not shop at Walmart. You can have both at the same time,
Crishelle: He shops at
Dan: there's some
Crishelle: just so everyone knows.
Dan: Good. You've converted him. He sees pr the practical side of
Crishelle: Yes,
Dan: but like but there are some things where you can't have both.
Crishelle: totally.
Dan: Like I, we can't do. Thanksgiving at the in-laws and not at the same time, like it has to be one or the other. Or we, it's like parenting. You're gonna have those issues too. Like we're gonna parent our child this way or not. Or faith matters like go to church or not, or [00:30:00] whatever it is. Like you're gonna have gridlock issues and even sexually or like, we're going to have sex this way or not.
Or say oral sex or not. Like you can't have both. It's gonna be one or the other. And those are the issues.
Crishelle: yeah. Yeah. I think that that's so accurate. I just think I can think of so many instances where, yeah, it was a parenting thing where I was like, we have to figure out how to be on the same page about this, and we have different views, so let's figure it out. Let's figure it out. And, and it, it required both of us, to be honest, to find out that we had different views and then honest to figure out which one was going to work moving forward and, and then deciding.
I, I mean, I think there's so much value if you can really both sit down, and this happens when you're dating. This happens when you're engaged and this also happens when you're married at different levels and really find out what does the other person think about, fill in the blank. What does the other [00:31:00] person really want with, fill in the blank.
Does the other person really ever want to leave the state that they were born in? Like all of these questions, like if you can really have honesty, that's where you can then build. A strong relationship moving forward. I feel like honesty, like this, honesty and this intimacy that we're talking about creates a solid foundation for your, for your life and for your marriage and for your family.
Whereas if there's cracks in it, it's gonna be hard
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Crishelle: and it, or it might just be parallel. Maybe you'll just keep, you know, the status quo and move forward, which sounds pretty darn boring.
Dan: Yeah. That's not what I want. I want, I don't want just a functional marriage. I want an intimate marriage.
Crishelle: Oh, beautifully said Dan. Beautifully said. Okay, Dan, one more time. Where can my listeners find you?
Dan: The best place is my website. Get [00:32:00] your marriage on.com. I'm also on Instagram at Get Your Marriage On or Search the App Store for intimately us.
Crishelle: Awesome and his many other apps. The, especially the pornography one, which is Pornography Life After Pornography, I.
Dan: after Pornography. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Crishelle: Yes. Ah, so awesome. Thank you so much, Dan. Thank you for sharing with all of your stories and, and your wisdom, especially.
Dan: Great. Thank you.
Crishelle: Let's go build marriages that rock.
Dan: Now go get your marriage on.
Crishelle: There it is.