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A podcast on all things music, featuring conversations on music, makers, and meaning.
Scott Catey (00:00)
I'm joined by Eric Wolferman. Eric is a drummer for the Celtic Dragon Pipe Band ? and he's also a drum
instructor for the Band and he's also a famous or maybe infamous broadcaster, but today we're going to
focus on the drumming. So Eric, welcome. Thanks for joining The Sum of All Wisdom
Eric Wolferman (00:17)
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Scott Catey (00:19)
I think my first question is, what is a Pipe Band?
Eric Wolferman (00:25)
Bagpipe bands, Highland bagpipe bands. Bagpipe bands have been around for hundreds of years and we
can go into the, they have a very rich history. But I look at it like, especially here in Montana, bagpipe
Band is just a community of people who love the music and who love the culture of Highlands and
Scotland and ? Irish too, cause there's Irish tunes as well. And it's a community. Pipe bands are made up
of four different voices. Normally you always hear about the bagpipes. They are the loudest voice.
They're one voice in a Pipe Band, but we also have bass players, tenor drummers and snare drummers,
which each add an individual voice on that. And so I've been playing with the Band now 22, 23 years, 23
years, like that. I played tenor drum. The last few years I've been playing bass.
And I'm back to tenor because our bass drummer left and tenor and bass are easily, they're not
interchangeable, if you will, but they're easily translated. So I was able to do that.
Scott Catey (01:37)
You and if I remember you, your wife, Amy is also a drummer, right?
Eric Wolferman (01:42)
She is. She's our drum sergeant and she's the snare drummer. So she plays the snare and I play the tenor.
She got me into this, this whole wacky thing. She was a Highland dancer when she was a teenager in
Portland, Oregon. ? and then she got out of it, moved to Missoula to go to school. And, ? she, when
she came here, she got in touch with the Scottish heritage society here and she was given dance lessons
here. And then somebody said, Hey, why don't you play with the Band? And she said, okay. And her
stepfather.
snare drummer with the Pipe Band since he was a kid. Taught her and taught lessons in Portland, Oregon
for many, years, taught kids bands there. Taught her. I was doing radio ? and I was doing night radio and
all the practices were at night. So I wasn't able to do it. So for the first two years I was her roadie and I
carried her drum. I hung out with the Pipe Band wives.
I was the only one that was a husband that was with it. They were all wives for the first couple of years
and it was fantastic, made great relationships. We hung out in the beer tent and we had beers and talked
about kids. And then all of a sudden I got an opportunity to get a morning show gig. And then all of a
sudden it was like, hey, what do you want to do? And I tried my hand at snare and I had a very, very good
friend who pulled me aside and said, you know, you're probably not.
Maybe there's something better for you to do. And ? I was a juggler in high school and they were like,
hey, maybe you should try this tenor stuff and see what happens with that. And I was like, all right, tried
the sticks and I took to it pretty quickly and pretty well and became fairly successful at it. So there you
go. That was my path to this. But my wife is still playing too. Again, she's still playing all these years.
So we've been playing together. We're the married couple in the Band.
Scott Catey (03:44)
I mean, it's a passion to get to hang out together and do your thing together, something you really love.
That's a thing, I think.
Eric Wolferman (03:51)
It really is. we get it. you know, Hey, you're to practice tonight. And I'm like, yep, let's, let's do it. She
cracks the whip sometimes on me and let's, let's get this going. And, no, it's fun. It's, it's a. We've no,
mean, and we've become really, really good friends with, with the people and it's all volunteer, right? It's
all. We volunteer for it. We're not professional musicians. We don't try to pretend to be, we're not
making any money off of this is we're a certified five one three C. So we.
The money that we make from gigs and stuff goes into the Pipe end to pay for equipment, pay for travel,
pay for ? kilts, uniforms, drums, all that stuff. it's love of it. And we have known a lot of these people for
20 some years and it's like a family, really honestly is.
Scott Catey (04:42)
So break it down for me, tenor drums, snare drum, bass drum, what's the difference?
Eric Wolferman (04:46)
The bass drum, there's usually just one bass drum. They keep the beat. That's their job. Their job is to
keep everybody on the song. Big round one. Yep. Snare drum is a snare. It is a marching snare drum that
is tuned very, very high. And when hit loud enough, it could sound like a gunshot. I mean, it's as loud as
what a gunshot would be. They're very, very loud. People always talk about, if you play in a Pipe Band,
You're going to go deaf with playing the pipes. The snare drum is a lot louder than that. And then there's
the tenor drum, which is in between the bass and the snare. And it plays more off the bass. We're the
rhythm section of the Pipe Band and we keep the rhythm, but we also are a visual element too. We're
the pretty looking ones and we're the ones that take our sticks and spin them around in the air in
choreographed time and catch them while playing. ?
And it adds a whole different visual dynamic to the Band as well. And that's how they intertwine. So we
learn individually, we learn our parts, we learn to play, and then we all get together and learn ensemble-
y. And there's different grades of Pipe bands as well. Grade one is professional musicians. This is what
they do for a living. You know, and then it goes grade two, three, four, grade five, or normally like kids
bands, juvenile bands. We're a grade four Band, which is we
We play parades, we play gigs, but occasionally we'll compete. And when we compete, you're judged on,
usually there's a two Pipe judges, the judge, how the piping goes. There's one drumming judge, and then
there's an ensemble judge that judge how, judges how we play together and how everything's put
together. So ? that's how competitions go.
Scott Catey (06:37)
You said you're grade four. and coming out of these competitions is where you your grade or who is
there an organization who makes the decision that you're a grade four?
Eric Wolferman (06:46)
There's a few organizations. Yes. ? we are, ? so there's North American Pipe Band association one.
There's, ? the BC Piper's association out of British Columbia. There's the European Pipe Band
association. There's our, everybody has their own little associations and stuff, but we're, ? we've
competed enough over the years and you don't have to continue to compete, ? in order to be
considered what kind of Band you are. Like we haven't competed in in a few years, ? as the Celtic
Dragon Pipe Band as we are aging and our Band members are aging, it's, tougher for us to actually go
and travel because competitions are, are tough because you have to travel for Montana. I mean, it's,
gotta go to Spokane. You gotta go to actually even further now you gotta go to Portland. You gotta go to,
Bellingham, Washington. those are just a couple on the side. Got to go up North.
Eric Wolferman (07:38)
yeah, financially and you know, physically it does too. We could talk about the, the world Pipe and the
road, the world, the road to the world's coming up a little bit later. And I can tell you about sleeping on
floors and couches for three years. That's always fun. Back when I was a much younger spryer lad, but, ?
but that's it. So that's what we do. So if we want to ? move up in a grade, so if we wanted to, Hey, we
want to compete in grade three.
Then we would need to go to sanction competitions. We would need to score well enough where they
would accept us as a grade three Band. So to move up, have to, you have to be competing.
Scott Catey (08:18)
Yeah, interesting. That's really kind of cool that you have you can if you want to. mean, I understand the
constraints and all that.
Eric Wolferman (08:25)
Yeah. Yeah. If we, if we wanted to, ? we could, and then the kind of crazy thing too, is you can get really,
really good players that could come and play with you. ? you can get it like a grade one player that could
come down and play with us and compete with us, but we'd still be considered a grade four. So P so
people do that with, you know, bringing ringers and stuff every once in a while to try and try and do it.
But, but we've been taught. No, go ahead.
Scott Catey (08:50)
Sorry to interrupt you, Eric.
If somebody's a grade one piper, instance, or grade one drummer, whichever, and they come play with
you, they, so they're graded individually. They're not a part of a grade one Band and they come to you or
how, does that.
Eric Wolferman (09:04)
Yeah, they would be the most the time individually. So if you're part of a Band, you would play with that
Band, you wouldn't come down and play with us. So we've been able to grab some people individually
who have played grade one at one time. Maybe they're older now and don't compete as much or maybe
they're solo or whatever and they'll come and they we have one member who when he was younger
played in a grade one Pipe and he spends half of his time in Houston, Texas half of his time here in
Montana and ?
He plays with us occasionally. He doesn't compete with us. We haven't really competed, like I said, in a
few years, but he'll play with us and we're a teaching Band as well. And that's where when we can get
these grade one players come in, they can teach us and we can teach, we can teach other kids. have two,
two students now. One is a young 11 and one is a middle school. And basically I'm just teaching them
the, the basics. I'm teaching them what it takes to be in a Pipe Band, what it takes to, to go.
And if they want to down the road, continue to play with us, or if they want to go and try and, you know,
move, if they end up moving somewhere, they can play with bands there and they, know how to, how
basic things go. so, ? and we do that with snares and we do that with dancing too. have huge, huge
dancers. have like 40, Scottish Highland dancers in town, a group that teaches everything from, you
know, two or three year olds up to 50, 60 year olds and, and then pipers too.
Pipers, we're teaching band. So we have piping instruction and it's all free. We don't charge anybody
anything to do it. And we teach them how to play.
Scott Catey (10:42)
That's fun. These kids you've got, you're teaching them a little bit of the philosophy and the practical and
do you teach also drumming skills and the flourishes, right?
Eric Wolferman (10:51)
Yeah. Yup. Spent a lot of time on the flourishes. The cool thing with that is that especially for kids that
are learning, it doesn't drive their parents crazy, right? As soon as you hear percussion, as soon as a
parent hears, want to play drums. It's like, what? And so the good thing is, is for the tenor I use, and I
have some aids for you. We use mallets. They look like this. Cool. That have a, you know, foam fuzzy
head.
And then they have a string on them. ? And so even if you're practicing and hitting, it's not, it's not very
loud. ? But yeah, teach them, teach them the basics. We have a lot of different time signatures and Pipe
Band stuff. mean, ? they translate to rock and roll as well, like a four/four, pretty basic, you know, but we
have ? some interesting rhythms in Pipe Band stuff like jig rhythms. ?
There's like four, four, two, four, three, four, six, eight. Those are the time signatures that a lot of
musicians would be familiar with. But we also have like jig time, reel time, Strathspey time, which ?
those are more Pipe Band stuff and more dance oriented and ? march oriented, right? Cause a lot of,
when you look at Pipe Band, it's a lot of marching into battle, marching away from battle. A lot of
marches.
getting those troops from point A to point B, if you're going really old school, right? ? And so, yeah,
yeah, but we teach them, we teach them the basics. We teach them what they need to learn. And the
cool thing is, is with Pipe Band stuff, there's stuff that they call ? massed bands settings. And that's
when, if you go to these Highland games, usually at the opening ceremonies or in the end of them,
they'll have every Band play together.
at the same time and it doesn't matter what grade it is. It doesn't matter you all play together and there
are settings and there's music that's written that is basically you can go into any competition anywhere
around the world and play with these bands because you know what they're going to play. So that's
always an interesting thing too.
Scott Catey (13:03)
These are like your pipers play great Highland bagpipes, right? They're the bagpipes that everybody
thinks of when they think of a bagpipe. those, don't those have like four reeds to tune and don't you got
to spend a lot of time getting everybody in the Band to tune essentially within, you know, relative space
of each other. a massed Band. How long does it take for the whole thing to get going?
Eric Wolferman (13:17)
Yeah
Well, that's bands that are mostly just like, everybody line up. You're not worried about tuning as much.
You are for competition. Trust me when I say that. And being a drummer, our stuff is normally tuned. So
we do a lot of standing around. We do a lot of waiting for the pipers to get tuned because it does take a
lot. They tune to the certain frequencies. It depends on humidity, heat, cold.
All of those things can affect a tuning even during performances and stuff. ?
Scott Catey (14:00)
I mean in Montana, right? Wait, the like the weather, wait five minutes. Your tuning is going to change,
right?
Eric Wolferman (14:06)
It is. is. I mean, we play, we play right around New Year's Eve every year. So we've played in every, mean,
of course they're indoors, but we've played in everything from, you know, minus 15 degrees out. And
then in the summer, it could be 98 degrees out and zero humidity. ?
Scott Catey (14:27)
You guys play First Night that sort of thing.
Eric Wolferman (14:29)
Yeah, it used to be First Night no longer, yeah, it's called Missoula on Main now. and so, yeah. And then
of course, St. Patrick's Day, St. Patrick's Day in Montana is wonderful too, because we play a parade and
we play bars all over the place, just like every Pipe Band around the country. the world, well, yeah,
around the country. And ? last year it was snowing at the parade. So we played in the snow while
marching and then.
We go indoors to play bars and we're playing through the afternoon, through the evening. And then the
next day it's sunny and you know, 50, and it does not feel like at all that you were just playing in the
snow day before. So yeah, it's a, they're fickle, they're fickle instruments. And they have the four drones.
have three drones and the chanter, which is the, where they finger the chanter and they have reeds and
all of those reed instrument and,
Yeah, they're a tough instrument to play for sure.
Scott Catey (15:32)
I think you said that Amy is your drum sergeant for Celtic Dragon. And what's the difference between a
drum sergeant and a drum major?
Eric Wolferman (15:42)
major doesn't play an instrument, they keep time and they have the big staff that they that they use. ?
Drum Sergeant, she's like she just makes sure that we're who's playing for what performances who's got
who needs equipment, you know, we, we hold the drum heads and make sure that people have sticks to
make sure that they have their and everything's kind of up to beat and she keeps track of like the drum
practices. So she kind of leads she leads the drum practices. All right, we're gonna work on this next. All
right, we're gonna do this. So that's
That's within the drum core, the entire drum core. She's kind of our glue that holds it all together for
what we do.
Scott Catey (16:18)
So you don't need a drum major because she's...
Eric Wolferman (16:20)
killing it that way. No, we don't. don't. We don't. We could use a drum major. mean, everybody could use
one, but yeah, we don't have that. That would be somebody who just really wants to hang around with
the Band, but doesn't really play. For us, that's what it would be. There's drum major competitions and
there is drum major world competitions where you have these kids that are out there with their mace
and they are doing
moves and flipping it in air and doing stuff that you're like, it's amazing to watch. So always definitely not
taking that away from any drum majors out there. You guys do an amazing job just for a ? Pipe Band in
Missoula, Montana. It would be like, Hey, somebody who just was looking for a hobby and wants to walk
around with us.
Scott Catey (17:05)
So along those lines, is there a Pipe Band scene?
Eric Wolferman (17:14)
Yeah. Yes. It's actually incredibly tight knit, small community. and I was able to, when I went to the world
and competed, to try to go to the world Pipe out Championships, I was lucky enough to be invited, ? to
play with a Pipe Band out of, ? Tri-Cities Washington. And they reached out to everybody and it's kind of
weird because I, now I, I have people that I know that play in Seattle, play in Portland, play in
Calgary, we would have camps, we would bring down ? professional musicians to train us. ? We would
have Band camp, I know, but let the jokes begin. ? But you get to know these people and you really
honestly get to know them and it's a small community, right? So, ? then I can talk to that here in a little
bit, but it's a small tight knit community and so.
when you're good and when you travel and when you compete, you go to these games and there is a
competition to it. There's that competition aspect to it, but you get to meet people, like-minded people
who are in the same thing. And so there's some great people that I've met over the years that I'm still
friends with to this day that aren't from Missoula and have really never even been to Montana, but I
went to there and we have Pipe Band stuff in common. And then if you start following it on social media,
I'm telling you, your feed's gonna be blowing up huge with Pipe Band stuff like all the time.
And you will know right when the World Pipe Band Championships are coming, you know, when the
European Pipe Band Championships are coming because everybody is posting and it's all competition
and it's all, it's all really cool. But yeah, not to be totally nerdy about the whole thing. There is, and, ?
I've known people who have, ? there's one professional Piper who I know from Calgary, whose name's
Anne Gray and she's fantastic. And she decided to, I'm going to go to.
go hang out in the, I think it was the Orkney Islands for like, take a sabbatical for like three months. And
she contacted the Pipe Band there and said, Hey, would you guys mind if I come and play with you? And
they're like, open arms, come play with us. went, and that was one of the reasons why she chose that
place. Cause she knew that she would have like already a, not knowing one person there, she knew that
she had a Pipe Band that she could go and play with and make friends. And she did that. And she's still
friends with them to this day, only played with them for a couple of months.
Scott Catey (19:25)
So. Your competition, you said this all happened for you in part because you were going for
competitions. How did that turn out?
Eric Wolferman (19:43)
It was the most amazing, I could talk for hours on this, but it was fantastic. ? I was invited, so I became a
pretty good tenor drummer here in Montana. And there wasn't a lot of that here in Montana at the time.
And so ? somebody saw me play and they reached out and said, Hey, would you be interested in
playing? And I said,
Yeah, let's just check this out. And then they invited a couple of our pipers as well and another couple of
drummers. ? and they were reaching out to Portland, Oregon, ? Seattle, Washington, ? Missoula, ?
and just whoever could do it and commit to doing it. And now that was the Tri-Cities one, Columbia
regional Pipe Band was the name of it. And they put it together with the intent of let's go compete at the
World Pipe Band Championships in Glasgow, Scotland. ?
and compete at grade three level. So I had to actually play up from what I was playing here in town. So it
took us three years of once a month, we would drive over on a weekend. would drive over, didn't matter.
mean, literally it was once a month all year round for three years drove over to Tri-Cities, Washington,
which is five hours one way ? to two mountain passes. And in Montana, that could be sketchy.
Scott Catey (21:04)
Six months out of the year that that's not nice, right?
Eric Wolferman (21:06)
Exactly. And sleeping in people's houses and, know, hey, sleepover, come over our, our Pipe major, her,
name is Judy Morrison. She, she's the one who put this whole thing together, her and her husband both
play in in the band. And, ? and then it was fundraising and it was doing all this stuff, but then it was also
competing. So we had to be invited. You have to be asked, or you have to make enough competitions in
order to go to the world Pipe Band Championships to compete. don't just let anybody.
fly to Scotland and do this competition. So we had to place in enough competitions, sanctioned
competitions in order to earn it. And we, yeah, it was like Bellingham, Washington. was, you know,
Portland, Oregon. was ? why it was also, where else did we do? We did Spokane, Washington. We did all
these sanctioned ones. And again, this is you driving nine hours one way to go.
to play five minutes worth of music, five or six minutes worth of music. And then spend your day
sweating profusely in the summer in nine yards of wool in a kilt. And then you turn around and drive
back to the end. And then you're just like, all right, we're gonna do it again in a couple of weeks. And so
it was a commitment. It was a financial commitment. It was a time commitment. It was really for the
love of the music commitment. And it was cool.
Scott Catey (22:32)
To get from grade four where you were to grade three for the competition. mean, that must be pretty
intense practice throughout that whole.
Eric Wolferman (22:42)
It was, yeah. And it was, it was great because it was, you know, here with our Pipe Band, there's a lot of
social stuff. I mean, we get together, Hey, how you been? Haven't seen you in a while. You know, there's
a lot of that stuff. ? you drove five hours. It was like, you go straight to practice and it's like, this is what
we're playing. This isn't, Hey, how are you guys doing? Let's sit down. This is like, and so it was always
like, after we'll have time to talk and catch up after, ? cause we ended up spending the night, you know,
the whole time. So, ?
It was intense. It was really intense, focused. ? We had two competition sets that you have. One is ?
considered an MSR, which is made up of a march, a Strathspey and a reel. ? And those are more
traditional tunes that you play. And then there's a medley. with a medley, you could have six, seven
tunes of your liking, different time signatures, and way more creative.
So it's a way to do that creatively. so we worked on those for years. We worked on them for years and
eventually we ended up earning the right to go and compete in Scotland. that is the most, it's just
wonderful. mean, for me now it's like, it'll be 11 years ago. It was 2015 when we went over, but it was
not just a trip to Scotland. It was just fantastic because
the, great thing about the world Pipe Band Championships is it's, it's unlike anything else because of the
fact that you have the proximity to the best in the world. And you can go up and talk to them. You could
sit and watch them practice perform. ? you know what I mean? Like you have access.
Scott Catey (24:17)
Mm. just folks, right? If you are just talking to them, they're humble.
Eric Wolferman (24:31)
Exactly. you know, if they're practicing or pretending it's, you know, it's, can be five feet away from the,
the world's best Pipe Band players. And you could be sitting there drinking a beer because your practice
is over or whatever, and you can be taking pictures and video and meeting these people. ? and that's
whoever thought that a kid from Montana would ever get an access like that. So take the best of
whatever, take the best, doctors in the world, take the best jugglers in the world or whatever, and then
give you access to just be and have conversations and talk to them and be in this place and see them at
their peak. It's just kind of mind blowing, regardless of how nerdy you want to get in the Pipe Band world
let me just take anything and just be like, this is the best. mean, go to a music festival of rock and roll,
right? Go to Bonnaroo or whatever. And they're like, we're going to put you backstage, backstage VIP and
you get a talk to all these people and ask them questions and look at their instruments and whatever.
Like when does that happen? Right. So that experience was amazing.
Scott Catey (25:36)
Well, nerdy is good. Feel free to nerd out as much as you want. At the moment, right. Especially in the
criteria for judging when you're at this competition and you are competing at level three, what are they
looking for when they judge you?
Eric Wolferman (25:41)
They're looking for how well you play the instrument. that's back to the, ? you know, there's two
judging judges that really focus on, or two piping judges, sorry about that, that focus on the pipes and
they focus on how the pipes are playing. And if, if one piper comes in early, if tempos are off, if ? you
can't really judge volume because pipes, bagpipes only play at one volume. So it's not that. ? And then
judging drum judges.
drumming judges, they look at the drums. How are you guys playing together? How are the snares
playing really when you have like six or seven snare drums? It should only sound like one. You should
never hear differentiation between really between those other than your lead stick, but your lead
drummer. But they're playing in unison on everything. How does the rhythm section play with the
rhythm section? How are we complimenting everybody?
And then it's ensemble-y. How do we play together? And there's all kinds of different criteria. And then
they judge you on, they judge you on all that stuff. They write notes and stuff, which is always great
because you get stuff to work on and they tell you what you did wrong or they tell you what you did
great and you, don't need to work on those things. So you get feedback, which was fantastic. ? And then
they judge you, you know, ranking first through however many bands are there and where you, where
you fall into that. So, ?
Scott Catey (27:22)
And the drum judges, do they judge your flourishes?
Eric Wolferman (27:25)
Not so much. Actually, most, most drumming judges, and this is kind of what's cool about it. Most
drumming judges come from the snare background. So it's, it's beats and rhythms is what they do
because they're, so busy listening and you know, down writing and writing in their score sheets and stuff
that they're not watching what we're doing as far as flourishing goes. So you can screw up a flourish. You
can mess one up and not, it's not a big deal, but, but if you're off on your timing and if you're off on the
beat and you're off on the rhythm, then they hear that and you'll get judged on that.
Scott Catey (27:59)
If you mess up a flourish, does that mess up your time potentially?
Eric Wolferman (28:03)
You can, yeah, you can, because we have them pretty tight and we counted out in our heads and we
should be down here. So yeah, you can, you can. If you tie up those sticks, yeah, that could mess things
up.
Scott Catey (28:21)
When you are developing your own sort of style as a drummer who does flourishes, do you, how do you,
do you innovate? Do you, there like a framework that you teach your kids in this then outside of that,
can make your own interpretation. How does that work?
Eric Wolferman (28:38)
That's exactly it. Yeah. You, ? you teach them the basics. It's all about stick control. So once they get
stick control, then you can do whatever you want and you can be as that's the cool thing about it for me
is you can be as creative as you want. but you gotta get the basics down in order to do it. And so, ? the
basics are pretty simple. It's just being able to control your stick and stop your sticks when you need to
stop your sticks. So you could be in the middle of a flourish and a swing.
And when it's time to come back, you need to make sure that your sticks are hitting that drum ? at the
same time when you're supposed to be. so, but within that framework, you can do all kinds of stuff. You
can do ? spins and you can do stalls and you can do, there's a lot of stuff that you can do. that's cool.
Scott Catey (29:26)
Tell me what the, when you're teaching a kid, what's the, what are the first few steps that they got to
learn? What's the framework?
Eric Wolferman (29:34)
All right. First few steps is to learn to put the stick on because you want to make sure and there's, there's
a couple of traditional ways to do it. I don't know how well you can see it, but you learn to put it on your
pinky, do a little twist. Then you put it on them back. And so then you hold your stick and this is how you
hold your stick. so it doesn't fly off your hand when you're, you're doing your thing. So I don't know if I
need to unblur this or not, but, ? and then another one, you do the same thing. Basically.
What I teach them to start out is just a a single spin and hit. So if you can do this and it's the most boring
thing ever, it's almost like the old paradiddle, the old left, right, you know, if you can do this, everything
comes from these, but you have to be able to grab your stick and be able to hit your stick. And so start
with singles and then go doubles.
You know, and then you can start doing it fast, but you control of it and then you can start doing stuff
like this. I don't even know if you can see this or not, but you can start doing.
Scott Catey (30:42)
But we can see some of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Wolferman (30:44)
start doing things like this and then you could spin out and you can do these different things and you can
do these things ? and you can do all kinds of things but it all starts with if you can't grab those sticks and
hit those sticks when you need to play then you're gonna be it's gonna be tough so
Scott Catey (31:07)
Just for, if somebody's looking at this or listening to this and not looking at this, Eric is demonstrating
flourishes with, with his tenor drumsticks, right. Called mallets and just some spins and double spins and
other things that he's showing. So tell me what's your signature move. What is it that distinguishes the
wolf?
Eric Wolferman (31:16)
Yeah, mallets. I kind of do a little bit of everything. ? It's tougher when you have multiple people. for
years, I just played by myself ? with the Band. I was the only tenor drummer. We had some coming, we
had some going. When you're playing by yourself with a Pipe Band, there's literally no rules. I don't have
to choreograph with anybody. I don't have to do anything. I can just sit and just play whatever I want.
I really liked the stalls where you just hold, hold them in front of your head. ? but coming in and doing
some throw outs and then getting into the different things, ? and then throwing them out and then
coming back in. Those are things that I really like to do when I have chance. So then when you get
multiple drums and the cool thing about the tenors as well, multiple drums, you choreograph.
with that other drummer, not just in the flourishing, but also in the tones as well. Because you have
drums that aren't, they're not tuned. They're different pitches. They're not tuned together. And so
there's times when somebody will be flourishing and somebody will be playing, not at the same time.
And then we opposite and we move that around, right? So if we had like for Columbia regional, there
were six different drums.
that we had that were all tuned differently. And so you'll have do do do do do do do do do stuff like that,
right?
Right. Yeah. And so, w it's so, it's so fun. It's, great. and you just, you play less. That's the other thing too,
is if you're just one, ? you, but you have to be on when you're on and, and, ? it's, it's great. It's great to,
to hear. And when you see these, ? professional Pipe bands, these grade ones play.
and they'll have six or seven tenors that are all just tuned differently and they're all playing these just
amazing rhythms that are just underscoring everything. It's fantastic to watch.
Scott Catey (33:47)
How many drums are in Celtic Dragon.
Eric Wolferman (33:50)
Well, we have six snares, I believe, and we have just two tenors and a bass at this point. and we're
always, you know, we're always looking for more, but that's about as big as we get. one time we had
three tenors and we had, think seven snares at one time. So, you know, 10, 11 of just the drummers. And
then we have seven or eight pipers. So we ended up with about 20 people, 16 to 20 people. And.
for being a small town in Montana and being able to sustain like we have over the years. It's pretty cool
that we're able to do that. So not everybody does. There's not a lot of Pipe bands in Montana.
Scott Catey (34:30)
Yeah. How long do your students practice before they can actually start playing with the Band?
Eric Wolferman (34:38)
It really depends on it. It depends. It depends on what instrument you're playing. It depends on how
you're doing. ? I, my student is playing with the Band and he's been playing with us for two. Well, I
started teaching him two years ago, only three years ago, this St. Patty's day, actually him and his family
saw us in St. Patrick's day. And he's fantastic because their entire family has gotten into the Band. his dad
is learning pipes and is playing with us.
He's tenor and his mom and his sister are all dancing. So they have completely embraced us as another
extended family for them. But snare, takes longer. um probably about a year to play with us with a snare
drummer. ? Tenor, it's a little less. ? Just depending on.
who you are and where you are. Pipes takes a little longer. Pipes is probably a year, year and a half
maybe of instruction. And that's just playing the chanter. And then you learn to play the big pipes and
then you learn to play the music and then that changes things. But it really depends. Like my student is
also taking percussion in middle school. So he's learning drum kit drumming and he's learning
drumming. And so me throwing the flourishes at him.
and can read music really well. And so he was able to pick up and play with us pretty quickly.
Scott Catey (36:05)
And he can translate that after, mean, both in middle school and, and what he's learning from you, can
translate that to rock and roll or jazz or any other thing if he wants.
Eric Wolferman (36:14)
Yep, he totally can. Actually, he's the stuff he's learning in middle school with that kit drumming and all
that stuff with his Band is the rock and roll stuff, you know, when they play the Michael Jackson's Thriller
and they play those things, right? So, but he's like, I got it. You know, I got this stuff. I got the rhythms
down. And ? so, yeah, so for him, was pretty quick to be able to play with us. And then you get into, if
you're an older person, ? may take you a little longer.
especially with the flourishing, the hard part about flourishing is coordinating it and it's weak versus
dominant hand, right? So the weak hand always takes a lot longer for people to learn and the older you
are to learn, ? kind of the harder it is to do that. So, and beyond, and for some people it's really
intimidating when they see some of the things that ?
that I can do and they, get intimidated when I, when I break it down, like just, just learn these initial
singles and double beats. Like I was showing you a little while ago, if you can get those down and if you
can get them down well and can control those sticks, then you can play. You can do all the other things
that I showed you because they're all derivative of that. So.
Scott Catey (37:36)
What do you think is the future of the Pipe bands? So you're instructing, so you see new young sort of
faces, young blood coming in. But what's the what's the future look like? Do you think?
Eric Wolferman (37:50)
think it's just, ? it's a traditional thing. So I don't think it's going to go away. think ? it's a matter of,
mean, we can go into the whole, you know, sitting before a screen and all that stuff. It's a matter of
pulling kids away and young people away from that and getting them into it. And I think that's with
anything, but the, I think the traditional aspect of it helps a lot. mean, honestly, some of the tunes we
play, right? Like hundreds of years old, they've been played for generations.
Scott Catey (38:18)
Scotland the Brave
Eric Wolferman (38:20)
Scotland the brave. Yeah, exactly. The old four/four set. and some people call it the Irish Spring song. If
you want to know, see the Irish spring commercials for you older people out there. Exactly. ? but it gives
me hope because when we play, ? we, play, we play a lot around Missoula when we can. Right. So we'll
play for St. Patrick's day and we'll play like 15 different bars and we'll play a parade.
Scott Catey (38:31)
The used to take his knife and cut it open and green and white lines, yeah.
Eric Wolferman (38:50)
We'll go out and we'll play before that. ? There's a run that happens, the run for the luck of it that
happens that we'll play. We perform, we'll play for first night. And there's kids that are dancing, these
little kids that are dancing. They're exposed to the music. They're exposed to the traditions that a lot of
kids weren't. I wasn't exposed to it when I was a kid, right? But I have exposed these traditions, these
playing.
of these tunes to so many people around town and try to spread, ? spread the word of music. And
when we play, we're invited to play international things quite a bit. And that's always cool too, because
for our New Year's Eve celebration this last year, ? we were playing right before like a Cuban Band, right?
And steel drums and reggae. And they were back there watching us play and we're back there watching
them play.
they were watching us more on, our technique and like, wow, you guys are so like close together and so
tight. Whereas, you know, steel drums, you could be a little more relaxed, a little more. right. Yeah. but
the cool thing is, is there's people who are still interested in it. And, ? as long as you're going to have
people that are interested in it and they can learn it. And it's a different kind of hobby. There's not
everybody.
I'm always afraid that my middle school student, like when he gets to high school, I'm afraid, you know,
bullying still exists and it's not cool anymore or, right? All of those things. I also kind of think that it helps
that I'm ? a rock and roll DJ that does it. So I can still be kind of cool. I can have that cool, you know,
Scott Catey (40:18)
Right. Yeah.
Eric Wolferman (40:41)
I'm a DJ on the radio I like to think that, ? that I can have the best of both worlds. And there's some
times when the worlds collide, like we've had multiple instances where I've used my, my radio name.
? I'll meet people at some of these gigs that only know me from the radio and the Pipe Band will make
fun of me. They'll be like, why? That's not you. What are you talking about? Because they know they
know me. Right. And so
Scott Catey (41:05)
No Pipe Band payola going on though, is there?
Eric Wolferman (41:08)
No, no, trust me when I say that I don't, ? we're not getting paid for any the Pipe Band music that I play
on the radio station. ? yeah, none of that, but, ? so it gives, it gives me hope that there is stuff. And
when you see these young kids coming up and you see these bands teaching and you see the heritage
continuing, it's like, it's, it's exciting to me. now whether my student gets to high school and like, this is
the lamest thing ever. ?
That's a possibility, but the Band's still going to be there and we could still pull in some people who are
maybe in their twenties. The cool thing about university is that we get people who are like, I played high
school marching Band. ? we get a lot of those, ? drummers that come through. Hey, I'm not playing for
the university. I'm a forestry student or whatever, but I played the drum. Check this out and we'll run into
them at a bar in St. Patrick's day and they'll come and play when they can.
Of course, then they usually leave and go on to where they can find a gig, a job, right? But ? we've had a
lot of people who've come through that we've become friends with and that we're still friends with that
played with us for a little bit while they were in school, doing their school thing and then moved on.
Scott Catey (42:24)
So I haven't been in Missoula for a long time and haven't lived there for even longer. ? But when I was
last there, living there, the Highland games was an annual thing. The Highland games still come through
and do you guys play that?
Eric Wolferman (42:40)
There hasn't been one in Missoula since probably you left, but there is one in Hamilton and ? it's a two
day event and it happens in August, right around when the World Pipe Band Championships are
happening. Yes, we're still part of that. Actually one of our Pipe major, who's our lead piper, he is part of
? Scottish, the Bitterroot Celtic Society and they're the ones that put that on.
That's kind of a, that's our backyard one, right? And we bring ? Band members ? from bands from all
over Montana that come here. We get Coeur d'Alene, we get Spokane that come over for this event too.
So we're continuing to, to, to spread the ? spread the good word of Pipe Band stuff as well. Yeah. We're
kind of excited too, because the, the, ? a woman, Judy Morrison and her husband, Don Stewart, who
took us to the Worlds they're Tri-Cities Washington and they're retiring and they're like, we're, they, they
lived in Montana at one time and they're moving back and they're the house here. And so they're going
to be living here and we're like, everybody's kind of freaked out. Like who knows what could happen
with this, right? We have these, these people who put this together and, what can we do with this? And
so.
Scott Catey (44:00)
Where in will they be? they coming to Missoula?
Eric Wolferman (44:03)
No, they'll be in that. Well, they'll be in the Bitterroot. it's, you know, they're, you know, 30 minutes
away. So, ? it'll be, it'll be cool. We're excited to have them come and, ? be a part of it. And there's
their, ? children who are now adults and on their own or whatever played, Pipe Band stuff with them as
well. And so if they could come and visit and play with us, that would be, that would be fantastic. So we,
we pull everybody in and,
it's a hobby and you get to know these people and you get to have fun. And if we get a chance to play
music and I try not to get too stressed out about it, because with my job I'm working a lot, but ? I try
and just be like, Hey, you guys will get what you can get. And we're to try and put, put on a good show
for where we can. But ? so it's, it's great. It's great. And it's, and you get to learn music and you get to
learn traditional music and you get to learn new stuff. our, our Pipe major is always pushing us to
to learn new things and every couple of years you learn a new medley, five or six different tunes,
different signatures, putting them together and seeing what we can do.
Scott Catey (45:08)
And like you said at the beginning, it's community, right? You're with people that have a shared interest
and you're having fun and you're doing something giving back in terms to the larger community.
Eric Wolferman (45:17)
Yeah, there's big social aspect to it. know, like when we're doing our St. Patrick's Day thing and we have
like an hour and a half off in between gigs and stuff like that. You sit down and get to know these people.
You get to know who they are and their families and their spouses and the people that put up with this
stuff too. And, ? you know, we're hoping eventually to get back into the ? competition thing and
traveling for competition. ?
We'll see. It's just, it's just tough. mean, we have older, we, are some people that are retired that are
older that have all the time in the world. And then there's people who are just now starting to have kids
and having families and, and the commitment, the time commitment and stuff can be difficult
sometimes.
Scott Catey (46:01)
different kinds of constraints when you're just having kids as opposed to retired.
Eric Wolferman (46:05)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. ? For sure. so, but we rely on those people who are retired and who have the time
to do stuff to book gigs for us, and to talk with the bars and to set these things up and to put together
playlists of what we're going to be playing and communicate that stuff. ? To get them to go on our social
media and keep that all updated as a whole other thing. ? But we're, it's cool. We're our little ?
our little Pipe Band community here in town. And you walk around and you just be like, you'll meet
somebody and like, Hey, don't I know you as well? I played a Pipe Band. ? and it's the only Pipe Band.
it's like, you've seen us play, you know, somewhere. ? it was always a cool thing.
Scott Catey (46:48)
So do you, when you're not practicing and when you're not working or playing, do you listen to Pipe
music? Who are your favorites? Who's out there that are doing the thing that is the thing everybody
should be doing with Pipe bands.
Eric Wolferman (47:03)
man. mean, there's, there's so many. again, ? I mean, if anybody wants to check it out, the BBC has
always streamed the World Pipe Band Championships and stuff. so, ? there's one that's this close to us,
? Simon Fraser university out of, ? Vancouver, ? BC, ? close to Vancouver, BC. It's not, it's all, that's a
suburb of Vancouver, BC, but, ? they're, they're pretty phenomenal. They ? are always in the top.
at the Worlds, they're always up there. I think they just won best drum corps just recently for the Worlds.
? But you see stuff like Field Marshal Montgomery does pretty amazing things. St. Lawrence O'Toole
Pipe Band. There's these Pipe bands that are from the UK, that are from Scotland, that are from Ireland,
that are doing some amazing, amazing things. But there's so many of them to do.
And that was, again, that was one of the cool things. If you go to any Highland games anywhere, and if
you could go to any of them that has a grade one Pipe Band playing there, ? if you could do it, go do it,
because you'll be able to see some stuff that is just, it's just phenomenal. And when you hear a grade
four Pipe Band, like we're good, we're good, we do what we can do. But again, we're hobbyists and we're
older people or whatever. And then you see a grade one Pipe Band and you're like, all right. So this is,
this is.
This is pretty phenomenal. You know, it's pretty amazing.
Scott Catey (48:33)
what besides the BBC you mentioned, um, social media outlets, where's, where's a good place to find
stuff.
Eric Wolferman (48:42)
YouTube is usually the best place. mean, YouTube, everybody is posting stuff and putting it on YouTube
now. So I mean, if you just do type in grade one Pipe bands into YouTube, you'll see ? a ton of them. You
can look at the ones that I threw out there. But yeah, mean, social media, everything is at your fingertips
these days, right? So when I started, which was 20, over 20 years ago, again, we would bring people
down from Canada. ?
? there's a woman who taught me a lot of stuff. name is, Kenna Whalen. And she is out of, I think she
was Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. And she taught me a ton of stuff and Anne Gray from, ? Calgary, taught
our Piper's a ton of stuff. She wrote a tune for us, called the Celtic Dragon Pipe Band that she, she has
published. So yeah, there's a, there's a, there's a tune out there. If you guys ever want to hear it, it's
about us. ?
So it's great to make friends with these people, that was our, that's how we learned. Now with my
student, I can be like, hey, check out this. And there's instruction for everything on the internet now,
right? So if you want to learn how to do anything, if you want to learn tenor drum, if you want to learn
how to do it from a grade four to grade one, there's instruction out there on that. ?
I like, I still am old school. I like the hands on, I like to give feedback. I like to show, Hey, you're doing this
wrong. Watch your elbow. Hey, it gets all in the wrists. Hey, you know, you're doing, you're exerting too
much effort in this. Let's, let's try and level you off with me. Um, so when you have different things, I like
being able to do that. And then during the week I'll be like, I'll refer them, Hey, uh, go check out this
video or saw this one or see this and see how they're doing it.
and see if you like it. So, and then I also, the other great thing, it's almost like ? radio, you know, from
radio that you steal the best bits or borrow or it's an homage, however you want to do. But when you
see, when you see these, these drummers, these, these grade one tenors, I'm always like, try that move,
try to do that. Is there a place that we can incorporate that and give them some, ?
ownership of our choreography, not so it's just me, not me just telling you what to do. Like, hey, what did
you see? And ? my students great because he'll come back and be like, hey, I kind of did something. And
then I'll be like, all right, let's try and work this out. Let's troubleshoot it. Let's work it out. And can we fit
this somewhere in there? And we'll all call it. It'll be your, your flourish. We'll name it after you. And I ?
love doing that. So yeah.
Scott Catey (51:28)
That is cool.
You know, I don't know if I ever told you this. was, ? when I was an undergraduate at the university of
Montana, I was in the marching Band. was a bass drummer.
Eric Wolferman (51:38)
Were you really? You never told me that.
Scott Catey (51:40)
Yeah. For two years I did that and let me be frank. I was not a great bass drummer. I don't know that I
ever kept time, but the thing that chased me away was the, the brass. There was a trumpet player and a
trombone player that hated me. Probably justifiably if I'm honest with myself, but they were so mean.
They did the meanest things to me. And so I said the hell with that. I'm done. Anyway, I'm glad you're
carrying on with this, Eric. I think it's lovely. I've heard you guys play, you do a great job. Uh, it's fantastic
what you're doing. think that bringing people in and training kids to do this for the next generation is
really admirable, commendable. So thanks for what you do.
Eric Wolferman (52:25)
Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having us. mean, we, you know, we, we really like doing it and we really like,
? and the fact that it's a hobby, it's, it's one of those things like, we're not being paid to do it. It's, it is for
the love of the music and it's for the love of doing it. And we love performing and we love getting
dressed up from head to toe in uniform. And, and it's, it's cool when we do that because we step it up. ?
when the uniform comes on, we play better.
than we do at that weekly practice that we have. It really does. ? We practice, so just FYI, we practice
every Monday night for anybody that wants to stop by Monday night, First Presbyterian Church. ? You'll
be able to hear us, trust me on that. People come in all the time and just sit and watch. we're very
approachable. Come in and ? if you have a kid or if you ever want to learn.
Scott Catey (52:57)
doesn't it? Yeah.
Eric Wolferman (53:22)
any of these things and you wanted to give it a try, again, we're a teaching Band and we'll teach you how
to do it.
Scott Catey (53:28)
That's fantastic. My sister got married in that church and I sang for her wedding in that church. It's a
great church. It's got great acoustics. I can imagine hearing like the drum corps do their thing, but also
the pipes in that hall must be something.
Eric Wolferman (53:42)
Yeah, we played some, I mean, you we played some really cool places. We played the Wilma theater. We
played the Dennison theater in Missoula. We played some really good, you know, we played outdoors at
Caras Park many, many times. So, ? yeah. ? so it's, we are, we're approachable. We're open.
we're always open for a good time and for playing so and no, you know, you can scream free bird as
much as you want. But I'm just gonna say we it's not really in the repertoire. Yeah, no, no, no, I still try to
get him to do AC DC right it's a long way to the top Yeah, you know, it's it's a long way to the top.
Scott Catey (54:11)
Free bird, no stairway. Rock and Roll Ain�t Noise Pollution?
Eric Wolferman (54:24)
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll with the pipes in it, right? The Bon Scott, the old
story was he was like, Hey, let's put some pipes in there because the Malcolm brothers and Bon Scott
were from Scotland, right? They went to Ireland or Australia and started the Band. They were actually
Scottish and he was like, I'll play. And they're like, all right, let's do it. You got a set of pipes. He didn't
know how to play. Didn't know how to play at all.
Scott Catey (54:44)
I have a dream, Eric, and that dream is somebody from SNL is watching this and they're gonna, they're
gonna riff on the Will Ferrell �more cowbell� and they're gonna be like more pipes, whatever the
movement is, gonna be like more, I need more pipes. Bruce Dickinson's here. We need more pipes.
Eric Wolferman (54:59)
Yeah, well, Mike Myers for a while in SNL, man, if it's not Scottish, it's crap, right? You have no idea, no
idea how many times we've heard that -- for decades after he played that character on SNL. yeah. Yeah,
yeah, yeah..
Scott Catey (55:13)
Hey, final word. Before we go, me, tell me, ? sum up what it is about Pipe bands that brings you in.
Eric Wolferman (55:27)
Oh man, it's playing music. It literally is just playing music. Playing music is something that is every kid
should do, whether it's a recorder, whether it's a triangle, whether it's banging on some pots and pans,
but it's just being able to play music with other people is just such an amazing thing. It's communal and
it's just fantastic to be able to do it. I wouldn't have done this for, you know.
a couple of decades if there wasn't that. everybody, and I know that's your focus, Scott, on doing this. So
thank you for doing this because musicians are great. I know you're going to have some great musicians
on here. You have a good reach and you know tons of people.
Scott Catey (56:06)
I have a great musician on here. That's what I'm saying. This is the subtext of this show is that I'm talking
to rare and remarkable musicians and musical kind of production work. Right. But the point of that is
that everybody has something rare and remarkable going on. And I think what you do for the Pipe Band,
I'm not just saying this. I have always admired you for 20 years. I watched you and Amy more than that
do this thing that you feel a passion for and do it well and grow and
do stuff in the world that makes a difference to the people who hear it and come to you to take more of
it. So I think that's the thing that really matters.
Eric Wolferman (56:45)
Thanks for that, Play music, Honestly, that's the best thing. Whether it's listening to the radio, whether
it's just playing on your air drumming your steering wheel, music just touches so many people in so
many ways.
Scott Catey (57:00)
It's the universal language, right? For me, that's, that's totally true. So Eric, I really appreciate your time
today. Thanks so much. I, this has been great. I would love to come back and talk about broadcasting
with you at some point when you have 40 minutes or so, ? get our ducks in a row and we'll, we'll have
that conversation a little bit later on.
Eric Wolferman (57:05)
It is. I got tons to talk to you about that as well. I don't have to bring props for that one.
Scott Catey (57:31)
Just yourself, your pretty face man, that's all we need.
Eric Wolferman (57:35)
You're so sweet. Thanks for inviting me, my friend. It was good touching base with you. It's been so long.
We text every once in a while. We don't get to actually communicate and talk enough. And so thank you
for the invite, man. That's great. Thank you.