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Creating a design concept for a kitchen or remodeling an outdated bathroom requires an understanding of the products and services available to those looking to undertake such a project. The ProSource Podcast breaks down the home remodeling industry and highlights the merchandise and experience that it requires to achieve your vision. Join ProSource Director of Digital Marketing Content Kevin Devine, as he speaks with those who facilitate the ideal project and offer valuable information for how to choose the ideal products and services that transform your ideas into reality.
Welcome back to another episode
of The ProSource Podcast.
In true summer fashion,
we have to talk about outdoor spaces.
Since 2020,
trends in outdoor
living have continued to skyrocket,
and we have worked with our trade pros
and homeowners
to ensure
they're not only getting the best bang
for their buck inside the home,
but also outside of the home in outdoor
remodeling.
So today we have two
very special guests on.
First, we are welcoming
one of our designer trade pro members,
Yvonne Valencia.
She is the owner of Yvonne
Valencia Design
in the LA and Orange
County area in California.
Then I will be talking to Phil Graves.
He is the Director of Sales
for Outdoor Living for Dal Tile.
So let's go ahead and dive in.
Today
we have Yvonne Valencia on.
She is the owner of
Valencia Design and Interior
Design studio in California,
and she provides
organized design processes
that create personally curated
and functional rooms.
Yvonne, you provide a ton of services.
I was looking at your website,
your Instagram.
Everything looks great by the way.
Well, thanks.
What would you say
are the most common services
that you provide?
week to week, week to week?
we specialize in residential design,
but we do small commercial spaces
as well.
And honestly,
being here in Southern California,
I get a lot of requests
to kind of push those boundaries
out to the outdoors.
So I would say, you know,
we have specialties,
but clients will request
just about anything from us
if they feel comfortable.
And if we think that we can
handle it, we'll take it on.
Perfect.
And that's great
because today's episode is all
about the outdoor spaces of a home.
so we're really excited
to have you on and talk a little bit
about outdoor spaces.
I know that the pandemic really changed
how homeowners view their outdoor space.
Yeah.
of course, people had, you know,
beautiful decking and
and everything before then.
but with people
being forced to stay home,
it made them look at.
Okay, how can I make my home
a little bit more interesting?
So I'm not going crazy.
from your experience,
how much has that changed
since the pandemic started?
How do you think it has affected
the way that homeowners
think about remodeling? It?
Well, here in California
and Southern California,
you know, outdoor
living has always
been a part of our life.
and I know from having friends
and family in other states
where the weather's different,
it also forced them to get creative
with whatever outdoor space they had.
but since most of our business
is here
in Southern California,
I mean, we've always
been a culture of pools and barbecues
and being outside a lot.
But I think in particular,
the pandemic really forced people
to create
little personal sanctuaries
and staycations,
you know,
forced us to have a lot of staycations
and,
really just turn our backyards, spaces
into personal resorts.
So I see more people asking for more
bells and whistles,
you know, more kitchens.
that rather than just a simple barbecue,
or water features, covered areas,
just anything
that's an extension of of their home.
and I think that a lot of that
does come back to the pandemic
and forcing us to get creative
with the spaces that we were in,
you know, with our families.
Absolutely.
How do you tend to navigate
the needs versus
the ones of homeowners
that are looking for
the perfect outdoor space?
Do you
what do you learn about
the homeowners first
that help you inform
those needs and ones?
Gosh.
Well, I think
as in any design project,
we ask a lot of questions.
You know,
we sit down with the homeowner
first before we start any of the process
and the questions like,
do you have young kids?
Are you, empty nesters?
How long are you going
to live in that house?
Because that's going to really determine
how much you're going
to want to spend as well.
So, you know, what are the what are
what are their hobbies
and most importantly,
what is their budget.
So just same questions that we would
ask with any other space
for sure and try
to really get to know
the homeowner and even
and I think also what's important
and why they're contacting
a professional
is to also make recommend recommendations
about things that
maybe they didn't know they wanted,
they didn't know they needed.
So I think that's
what we bring
to the table of professionals as well.
Yeah for sure. That's great.
So while we're newer in the outdoor
space, ProSource,
we are expanding our product lines
to offer more
and more each year,
especially since 2021.
How have you seen ProSource
help you in
creating the perfect outdoor
spaces for your clients?
Well, I joke around.
I say I'm here a lot.
I'm actually here at our
at our North Orange
County store right now with our,
you know, amazing
rep, my account manager,
Pam and store manager, Rachel.
So I'm here a lot to begin with.
And the reason
why that's important
is because
I get to see when new products come in,
you know, new displays, events.
Events you're at
the store are really good place and time
to come and look around and also talk
directly to the to the
to the vendors sometimes
and ask questions.
you know, I, I recently saw a display
that they had brought out
from a company called Nature Cast,
which is an outdoor, you know, cabinet,
beautiful wood, like barbecue cabinets.
And I wouldn't have known about that
brand at all
if it wasn't here on the store.
And, you know,
they did this beautiful display
and it really.
And I happened
it happened to coincide
with a client that I was doing
the inside of this home,
and we were moving to the outside.
And before I knew it,
he was asking me to
design the outdoor space.
And he wanted,
you know, the an amazing barbecue.
And because I saw that nature cast,
you know, display here in the store,
it really got my wheels turning.
And I started asking about the product.
Tell me a little bit
more about this product.
And then they had an event here,
and I was able to talk
to the vendor directly
and say, well, I have this product,
you know,
and I,
you know, this product might be a fit.
So definitely asking your your
account manager
constantly for help and advice and,
just getting as much information
as you can about the products.
They're just able to step in and help
provide us with so many,
so many materials
and items that we can use.
For sure.
I feel like having
that extra set of eyes out there
looking at products helps
because there's so much.
Yeah, it's probably
very overwhelming to even think about
how many is out there.
but having extra sets of eyes
that can recommend
some products definitely help.
Oh yeah, and the product knowledge,
because it's impossible
as designers
to know every single product
that's coming out
and not only know that it's coming out
and that it's popular,
but what it's made of,
what the warranty is. Yeah.
And those are all things that you
you pick your account managers brain.
Honestly, I do, I know I do.
I pick her brain
and I try to get as much product
knowledge as I can.
That's awesome. Yeah.
So when building or even rebuilding
a deck,
it's more complicated
than many may realize.
Why do you think it's important
to have an experienced trade pro
who has built a deck before?
Build the deck for someone
who has experience in other areas
but hasn't necessarily built the deck.
Well, finding the
contractor with deck
experience is super important
because knowing building codes,
first of all, knowing the code. Yeah.
And for example, here in California
we have a lot of seismic requirements,
a lot of earthquake damage.
So we've got you know,
they've got to know
what's going to
what's going to stand up to that.
things like leveling up properly,
you know, railing height,
things like that,
that even as a designer,
things we might not know.
So we rely,
we rely
definitely on our experience contractors
to do things like that. Right?
Even even if you're using
a composite material,
they all have different requirements
for their spacing.
and if you just get somebody
that doesn't have the experience,
it might not.
I mean, you're investing
all this money
decks are very, very pricey.
And if they're not done right,
it's not a good investment.
Yeah.
They could fall
and could even create
like a safety issue too.
Yeah.
And even just,
you know,
not installing the sub
flooring properly,
is not going to give you the life of,
you know, the some huge investment
that you're making.
So I think it's really important
to get someone with experience and,
and know their stuff in that department.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
year after year, outdoor kitchens
continue to be the hot item
on everyone's outdoor
remodeling wish list.
You just talked about. cabinets.
And I think outdoor kitchens definitely
is one that skyrocketed with Covid.
Yeah.
why do you think they continue
to be so sought after?
What are some aspects that homeowners
should consider before choosing
to have an outdoor kitchen
put in their backyard or in their space?
Well, I think for the reason
of wanting to have it,
I think there's something
about cooking outside,
you know, when you feel like you're
you're a part of the action.
You know, kids are in the pool,
you're entertaining.
So cooking outside
is really almost like
the American way of life.
Like it's
something that we do,
that we enjoy doing.
And so just like anything else,
that area has grown so much with,
you know, better technology
and better products.
so I think that, for example,
something that people don't consider,
they don't think about
is the vent proper ventilation.
Like you need to have
people forget
if you're going to have
a very enclosed space
and you have a big outdoor kitchen,
what is your ventilation like?
If you have a lower ceiling,
are you going to put in a hood?
some homeowner homeowners
I did a large California,
what we call
California rooms here in California's
big spaces with without windows.
But really as
they're kind of extensions of the home
and like a big outdoor living area.
And we did a big kitchen
and I said to the client, well,
what about ventilation?
You're going to need a hood.
And they said, oh,
we don't really like the look of that.
You know, we're not going to
we're not going to do that.
So what was interesting
was trying to figure out
where can we place this kitchen
right next to an opening,
a big window without,
you know, without a window
that they can have proper ventilation.
So also homeowners are looking for,
for like I said before,
more bells and whistles.
They're looking for the fridge, the sink,
the cooler drawer.
I have one client
who said he wanted a beer dispenser
in his outdoor kitchen.
You know, that's great.
Yeah, yeah,
it's getting very personalized.
and and homeowners
and designers
and, you know,
professionals are getting more,
I think, creative with the outdoor
spaces.
Yeah. For sure. That reminded me.
I saw
I was scrolling on TikTok the other day,
and I saw somebody put, like, a soda,
like a fountain soda
dispenser in their kitchen. Yeah.
They'll send, for their Diet Coke.
Yeah. And that just reminded me of that.
It's,
Yeah, it's definitely
people are getting way more personalized
with what they, what they want to have.
Your arms are.
And then vendors are getting really good
at offering more things.
You know, like I go
back to that nature cast
barbecue that we did,
and there were all these different bells
and whistles that you could put into it.
And, you know, there's
beautiful barbecues
that are done in metal or done.
And, you know,
sometimes on the,
you know, in with stucco on the spot
and there's just so many different things
that you can put into it now.
And with things like Pinterest, right.
Clients were realizing that,
oh, I saw this great item.
I want to put this in.
I want to incorporate this too.
Yeah, well,
there's just so many ideas
on the internet
as well to kind of
get your juices flowing.
Yeah. For sure. Definitely.
water
features like pools,
splash pads, outdoor showers,
they're constantly being built to provide
that relaxation to the space.
What challenges
have you seen people run into
when they're installing these type
of water features in their backyard,
and how have they have overcome them?
Oh, I'm sure contractors have.
Yeah, I'm not a contractor,
but I work with them
and I know that they've had
there's so many issues that can
that can come up with that.
we recently did a really beautiful,
outdoor shower that was like Bali style.
The client said,
I want it to feel like folly back here.
And it's this amazing backyard
that we did with a
tiki hut and,
you know, grotto in the pool.
and one of the things is, first,
with the shower area,
it was like an open.
It's an open tropical
shower surrounded in bamboo,
with stacked stone
and, like, trickling water.
It's beautiful.
But originally the client
said, oh, it's okay
if we don't do running hot water.
We'll just do cold water.
And then after it was built,
he pivoted and said, no, you know what?
I do want hot water back here.
So then it was kind of like, okay,
I guess back to the drawing board.
You know, let's put in what do we do?
We put in a small water heater back here
like a separate little system.
So there's always things
that you have to kind of pivot
and and be a problem
problem solver and water features or it's
no different, you know.
yeah.
The the other thing is
statically from a design
standpoint, is really making
these water feature feel organic,
like not just like we just put this water
feature here because,
you know, they wanted a fountain.
You know, part of
it is always making it
feel organic into the space.
And how do these features,
you know, build into the landscape
and really feel like they're
part of a cohesive design?
So it starts with the planning,
the planning
and the design of these features
and then the implementation,
which has its own challenges
for sure.
Yeah.
What is
trending in the outdoor space
that we should keep an eye on?
Oh, you know what?
actually, here in California, again,
I didn't speak from California
is that we have a lot of,
ADUs being built, additional
dwelling units,
and I, I don't know
if that's big and,
you know, other parts of the country,
but here it's really
they're allowing people to add, you know,
extra little homes in their backyards,
in their own backyards,
and you can Airbnb them.
You can rent them out separately.
it's a big trend here.
But what I see is,
what I see is people
using these as like, pool cabanas
and making these
amazing pool cabanas
that are like
little extensions of your home
that are a separate unit
that you can enjoy year round.
Like I said, you can Airbnb them.
You can enjoy them
during your pool season.
so something like that.
Like really cool
little pool
cabanas are really hot right now.
That is amazing.
You can you can do
you can go on Pinterest
and check them out.
People have them all over the country.
So that that I've seen that's
really amazing.
That's awesome.
Yeah, that would be definitely
a nice feature to have.
And yeah, it really is. Yeah.
And you can enjoy it.
You know,
depending on what part of the country
you live.
And you can use it as a guest home or,
you know, using your own. Yeah for sure.
Budget is always at the top
of the list of importance.
how have you seen trade pros
navigate a client's
budgetary issues
when they're creating their perfect
outdoor space?
I have any of their stories?
Well, yes.
I mean,
I think clients are always surprised,
when it comes to budget, I think
especially outdoor spaces
can get very, very pricey.
And they're
they're always surprised
you know, at at what it's going to cost.
the most important thing with budget
is, is really to try to narrow down
their wants versus their needs.
Right?
Because clients will come to you
with so many wants,
but then their budget
doesn't really match that.
So I think really narrowing down,
sitting down with them
and being realistic
about their, their budget,
when it comes to the outside,
like for example,
you know, trees are very plants
and trees are very expensive
when they're mature.
So maybe
going with plants and trees
that are not as mature
can save some money
on the budget
that you can allocate somewhere else,
but definitely sitting down with them
and discussing
wants versus needs and designing.
That's why working,
I think, with the designer
and other
professionals is really important,
and not just trying to DIY it,
because you have to plan out
where everything's going
and where the budget's going,
and where maybe you can make compromise,
you know, and, and use better
material over here.
But maybe we can come up
with an alternative for this.
But and yeah,
I think that's almost every client,
you know, they start off
they start off here
and then we go here
or they start off here
and then we wind up here.
So yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely every
every client is different though.
You know,
prioritizing prioritizing and really.
Yeah.
And really being realistic again
about your wants versus your needs. Yeah.
You know
you may not be able
to put a Grecian temple in your backyard.
You know, we want to.
Yeah.
We just had built in
another client's backyard.
So. Yeah.
they just yeah.
That's goals.
Yeah, definitely.
Oh, this backyard is, is,
you know, was not a typical
is not a typical project.
We did. Yeah.
I think almost just about everything
and anything.
And the budget did go from low to high
because they had like a, like a slope
in their backyard
that we didn't really know
what to do with.
And we wound up, like,
doing stairs into the slope and adding,
you know, other little like,
terraces up there.
So yeah,
yeah, the projects sometimes grow
like right in front of you
because you start off with one thing
and then and it gets bigger.
So, yeah, really, how did this happen?
Yeah. How did this happen?
But that's because the client
had the budget for that.
Where other clients come to you
with these great ideas,
but you need to make it happen
within a realistic budget.
And I think that's where we shine.
I think that that coming up with,
you know,
having a great contractor or a designer
that can help guide you
to make things a reality
without breaking the bank,
you know, or
going to borrow more money or,
you know, that's yeah, pay for ourselves.
I think in that
in that regard,
it's definitely more realistic.
people can relate more to those projects.
I'm sure when you're trying to
maneuver around a budget
to create your space
and still make it look great and work.
Yeah.
And not
and not make it uncomfortable for them,
you know, in budgetary terms, yeah.
Definitely some. That's great.
so with this episode
being about the perfect
outdoor space, it's important
to say
that it might be different for everyone
and may require them to aim for good
rather than perfect.
Kind of like what
we just talked about with.
Depending on their budget,
they might have to scale back
what they initially wanted.
what do you think makes, in your opinion,
what do you think
makes the outdoor space perfect
for a particular homeowner,
regardless of space or,
budget constraints?
I think we need to really ask them
how they live in their space.
You know,
what is their work schedule like?
What is their family like?
Again, like we said it,
like I said at the beginning,
asking a lot of questions
and trying to figure out,
do you really need that or this?
Or can we recommend something that
speaks more to them?
And it might be a client
that has a huge backyard,
you know, an acre backyard,
or it might be a client
that just has a tiny patio
and really making that space perfect
for them
and fitting
as much as you
possibly can into that
space is really what
what makes it perfect for them.
You know,
just every like I said, every client
and every project is so different
and you have to try to meet
their particular needs.
And a lot of
that is just really getting
to know your client,
you know, asking the right questions
and coming up with solutions for them.
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
And we've we've talked about it
a little bit already.
But I mean you're at a pro source
right now. You're at your passwords.
how long have you been
working with pro source
with your business?
I've been working with ProSource.
I think I'm going on maybe three years.
Okay. Awesome.
Yeah, yeah. Cool, cool.
What are some of the benefits that you
take advantage of the most
being a member at ProSource?
Oh, boy.
they help
me with my business in general with,
I would say with everything.
like I said,
I have a great account manager
shout out to Pam and Rachel
to the store manager here.
but
here in Southern California, they're it's
we're in the Los Angeles
Orange County area.
It's very expensive.
So one of the things
that they help me with is I no longer
have to run from showroom
to showroom to showroom.
And I think that that's one thing
that that a lot of contractors
and designers
would appreciate
is that
when we're working product for a project,
you usually have to go to 4 or 5, six
different showrooms all over town.
And just to get from A to B, right
is an hour.
Sometimes it's a different show.
But to say that I like
it is so, so the sourcing in one place,
first of all, is has been a game changer,
to be honest with you.
And then also the product knowledge
like we mentioned before,
like you hear about a new product,
but you don't have time
to learn everything about that product.
Well,
your account manager has probably if,
if Prosource carries it,
they've already gotten
some information on it,
or maybe they've used it on projects,
or maybe they can
point you to a better product.
so I think it's, it's they've become
an extension of my business, honestly.
You know,
I love walking in
for inspiration because,
you know, displays are changing.
So the inspiration, the product knowledge
and really just
saving us time, saving the time
in sourcing
from different,
a variety of different places.
And like I said beforehand, I would go
have to go to one place
for cabinets
and one place for countertops
and one place for this
and one place for that.
And the sourcing just became,
you know, so much time and energy.
So it's kind of a one
stop shop for a lot of things.
So that's why I had time
and expertise and, product knowledge.
Those are, those are the top.
Yeah.
So it's been it's
been a game changer for me. Honestly.
That's great. Yeah. Time is everything.
If you can save some time,
I know for me, sometimes I'm like,
I don't have enough time in the day
so you can save some.
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah.
For
for any new trade pros
that are listening to this, that
maybe they just
started working with Prosource
or they're not working with us yet
or partnering with us yet.
looking at specifically the
outdoor space of our business,
like I said,
at the pro source, you're out right now.
We definitely have an outdoor,
like staple.
I have an outdoor display.
Yeah, some of our showrooms don't.
So that's like evolving.
As you know, the needs are there.
what would you say
about the outdoor area pro stores?
What should trade pros
know about it and pro source?
I think what you need to know
is that there's more available
than you think.
So whether you have, nice display,
outdoor display
like they do here in North Orange County,
or you're somewhere in the country
where your pro stores
doesn't have a lot of things
on display yet.
Just know that you can ask that.
You can maybe source things
somewhere else.
You can source things online,
or you can source things
you know
through other,
other means, or get ideas online
and contact
your account manager and ask them,
because I actually do that a lot.
There's,
not only with outdoor product,
but with other products.
I'll say I'll call my account
rep and say, you know what,
I need this for this product.
Can you get it?
And she'll say, I don't know.
Let me check.
We might.
And a lot of the times they can get it.
So even if you're used to sourcing,
you know, sourcing outdoor products
somewhere else,
ask your account
manager and say,
I really use this product a lot.
Can you guys get it?
And yeah,
I would say
a lot of the times
they beat the pricing as well.
So that's big for us.
we didn't
we haven't even really skimmed.
You know,
we talked about the service
and not having to run
all over town for product,
but also the pricing.
The pricing is really great
for your clients.
Your clients are going to save money
and you're going to save time.
So ask,
I would say for new pros,
even if you don't see it in the store,
just ask because
they might be able to get it
for sure.
And that's
I would say like, oh,
a reason why some showrooms don't have
as many outdoor
displays up
is because they don't think
their trade pros are needing it.
But if a trade pro
calls their account manager,
they're having a lot of that discussion.
That's when the showrooms like, okay,
we need to really like
get all on board
with our outdoor living area.
yeah. So that's smart.
That's smart.
Because so many times we get
we start one project
for a client that might be inside,
and before you know, it,
they're asking us
if we can do the outside.
So I feel like that happens a lot
from what it does to trade pros
I've talked to.
Yeah.
we had a project happen where,
we actually just did, like,
a YouTube video,
like a producer video over it.
But,
one of the clients of our trade
pro wanted to do their decking.
And while they were fixing the decking,
they noticed that the doors to
the decking
and then another set of doors
at the house was
they were just falling apart.
So then they ended up adding
that onto the project.
So I feel like,
yeah,
it just is ever going sometimes like,
oh wait, we know
that's also yes, it really snowballs.
Yeah.
And before you know it,
you're working on something.
You know your scope.
You know we joke around and tour design
and we call it scope creep
or you know, it.
It's like, oh,
this wasn't in the scope,
but I have to go back
and talk to the client about it
because they need it.
So there's a scope creep
and and I do think that sometimes,
you know,
the backyard is really part of that
because you're working on a room
that might be adjacent to it.
And then all of a sudden
they say, you know what?
I realized?
We really want to redo our deck,
or we want some water features
or even like an outdoor shower
that I was telling you
that we recently built in the Bali
style backyard
and and it was all an original design,
you know, it was like composite
decking with pebbles
and bamboo surround
and stacked stone, shower area with,
you know, a
rain, head
rain, you know, kind of waterfall,
rain head shower.
So it just really does snowball into
I have this idea and I have that idea.
So yeah, it's a good problem to have.
It's a good problem to have.
You just
you need to feel like
you have a resources for it.
Yeah.
You know,
I think you shouldn't jump into anything
unless you have resources for it.
So like again,
pro sports is a good resource
because you can always go back and say,
can you get me this?
Can you get me that?
You know, it's
it's a good it's a good resource.
Well, thank you so much, Yvonne,
for hopping on today
and joining us for the episode.
we really appreciate it.
Make sure to, where can people find you?
I, I saw your Instagram, but share.
Yeah, people can find you
if they're listening.
I have a house pro account that's,
Yvonne Valencia design.
And also I do a,
you know, post a lot on Instagram
almost daily.
And it's Yvonne Valencia
underscore design
or at Yvonne Valencia underscore design.
And those are
I have a Facebook
also account with Yvonne Valencia design.
But those are the main places to find me.
And you can email me
with any questions about,
you know, potential projects
that you might have.
We do offer you design as well.
So if you're in another
part of the country,
we've worked on projects,
virtually with clients in New York
and Northern California,
and we do a lot of,
you know, can do a lot for people
just through internet,
you know, email and,
and telephone calls
and getting measurements
and specs from clients.
And we're able to plug it in
and really provide them
with a cohesive design
with our design platform.
So how do you do different ways
of getting a hold of us?
Yes. Perfect.
Thank you so much again.
And, have a great day.
Thank you.
Thank you I appreciate it.
This is this was fun. But
we're going to
go ahead and
switch things over to Phil Graves.
He is the director of sales
and outdoor living for DalTile,
which is perfect for this episode.
This episode
talking all about outdoor spaces.
I know with Covid,
I feel like that
really, jumped us into the outdoor living
area of just like improving your home.
I don't know about you,
but I've heard
I've only been
with Prosource since October,
but I've heard that when Covid happened,
the spike in outdoor living, necessity
just, like, went up.
would you agree with that 100%?
It absolutely skyrocketed.
And in some of those,
you know, manufacturers of materials
that have traditionally been used
in outdoor
living spaces,
they found themselves
16, 20 weeks in back order.
The demand was so, oh, wow.
That's that's crazy to know.
That's insane.
And would you say that's
probably still just riding
along that line of popularity,
or is it dipping a little bit?
It's going off a bit where it's not.
So everybody's so frantic
to try to get it done right away.
But
but that that space is still very,
very steady with work.
And it certainly hasn't dipped back down
to pre-COVID levels,
which were already quite good.
Okay, perfect.
Well let's start
with tiling for outdoors.
outdoor tiling inspires
design directly into the space.
How do you balance
the demands of creative designs,
how a tile looks
with the performance
that you need from the product?
Yeah, that's a great question Molly.
And basically
we look at two two main categories
like safety and then selection.
I would shield
what's the design of the space.
So typically we want to have frost proof
porcelain used
or an appropriate natural stone.
There should be the most
commonly selected materials
for outdoor flooring. Anyway.
and then from there
another safety aspect
is the slip and skid
resistance of the industry
wants to have
a dynamic coefficient
of friction over 0.6.
So you got to check with the manufacturer
to make sure
that that's going to be the case,
or even
especially an importer
that's bringing it in from a country
that maybe has a different
slip and skid standard.
but, from there,
you know,
we're
very well aware of the slip
and skid requirements.
And so we don't offer
anything for outdoors
that don't meet those requirements.
And in that selection of
that basket of products,
we've got a huge variety
of different sizes,
different visuals,
different colors,
so really endless design capability.
And then finally,
something to consider
depending on
how much sun
your outdoor area is going to get,
light colors
tend to keep things
a little cooler outside,
a little cooler underfoot
for sure.
I didn't even think about that.
Would you
would you say that
a lot of people are keeping their tiles
under shade?
For the most part,
it just so there really varies depending
on what's around the backyard,
you know, the orientation
of the house, etc..
Okay, perfect.
So you touched a little bit
about performance.
Speaking of which,
what technological advancements
has that DalTile made year over year
for outdoor tiling,
and how has that informed
your indoor collection as well?
Yeah, it's great.
That's great.
well, I think
honestly, one of the biggest
not necessarily in advance,
but one of the biggest things
we did in terms of technology
is, we're very careful
about selecting our vendor partners.
And so we know that the outdoor
environment brings
different performance challenges.
So, for example, we work with my pay
and have created
warranty systems
for outdoor installations
using established ECMA, Tile Council
and North America standards
that already exist.
So, that really allows
prosource customer
at that point
to use their same labor on an indoor
and used on an outdoor install,
using established standards
and really creating
a competitive advantage
for that installer
and a more seamless experience
for the homeowner.
so that's been a big one for us
in terms of installation
partners, installation product partners.
We also started manufacturing
some of our TCM
porcelain pavers here in the States,
and then our floor tiles
that have a proprietary
technology called stepwise
that's a
very nice technological advancement
that allows you to take your floor
tile outdoors
and have slip and skid resistance.
But this one in particular
doesn't create
a lot of additional maintenance
in terms of trying to keep it clean.
So those are some of the main events.
Yes.
I just
did a,
podcast episode with Corinthia Runge
from DalTile,
and We did one over our bathrooms.
and she talked about
step wise in the bathroom
and how popular that product is.
And, and it's it's great that you can
you can use it outdoors
also in your bathroom too.
Two of the most like slip,
the places you need,
you know, to worry
about slipping and falling.
Yeah, yeah, those are those places
particularly,
you know, it's a great
it's a great technology
and really
a broad
variety of visuals available therein.
Okay. Cool.
So pavers
have really taken off in recent years.
How has all tile
led the pack in this
trend in outdoor spaces.
Yeah.
Gonna go back to some of the
like the installation systems.
But really the overall right now
the tiles
exteriors program is really by far
the most robust
in the tile industry
in terms of the products we have.
yeah,
the fact that we've got our own company
manufactured pavers
from our plants in both Italy
and here in the US,
we offer complete turnkey
installation systems
for the whole spectrum
of installation options.
And we've got,
absolute expertise both on staff
and with our vendor partners
that can help train
prosource contractors and customers
that are looking to grow their business
from the indoors
to the outdoors, extend the business
and increase their profitability.
You talked a little bit
about some of our trade pros,
and the educational piece
that DalTile offers is amazing.
What feedback
have you heard from homeowners and trade
professionals that have helped shape
the outdoor collection?
Yeah, I'd say, you know, for one,
the desire for lighter
colors has been a big ask.
As we said earlier,
it helps keeping the to help
keep the flooring cooler.
indoor outdoor design
coordination has been a big one.
Two very, very hot right now.
you know, we can do that
with stepwise
or textured floor
tiles or move up to our two cm
porcelain pavers.
A lot of natural stones can accomplish
this look as well.
That blurring the line
between indoors
and out really hot in design right now.
you know, we've got,
the ability to have concrete
looks, woodland stonework,
variety of different sizes,
the ability to create patterns.
Right.
coordination
with vertical elements
is also been
a big ask from,
homeowners and contractors.
We certainly have that in spades.
And then finally, another thing
I think that's really important
is when you're outside
trim profiles like a pool coping
or a finished front long edge
on a stair tread.
So we've got, in stock profile options
as well.
Okay. Awesome.
And I know we've talked a little bit
about this already.
Is there anything else
that has made tile's outdoor tiling
stand out
near those water features
like pools, splash pads
and outdoor showers?
Yeah, sure.
Molly, just,
have have
everybody go take a look
at our exteriors website
and see just what's on it,
because there is a lot
I mean,
just a huge array of gorgeous products
for all types of features,
including water features.
So we've got above and below
the waterline tiles, right.
The tiles to do the entire tank
of the pool if you want to.
we've got glass mosaics, glass panels,
natural stone
glazed porcelain tile and panels.
really lots of different options
for those
have outdoor environments,
even in freestyle
conditions, to create
just stunning signature projects.
Even larger panoramic
porcelain tiles for walking for longer
water line, fewer
and fewer
grout lines,
you know, a more, cohesive look.
and they can also be used to create
water features, privacy walls.
and again, you know,
like we partnered
with my pay for, you know, bonding,
paving on the floor.
We also partnered
with my pay
for specific water feature
warranty systems.
And that's really important
because it's going to be constantly wet.
You're not using the appropriate products
for setting and grout material outside.
You're going to get efflorescence
running all over the place,
and it's a real eyesore,
if you use the wrong materials.
Yeah,
even if you just want to window
shop that website.
All of all tiles, imagery showcasing
all the products is just like
house goals. Like one,
right?
Yes. Yeah.
So I'm like, one day maybe. Yeah.
It's like a dream outdoor living area.
okay, so let's focus on outdoor
kitchens now.
with Covid,
we talked about a little bit.
Everyone started
wanting to build their outdoor space
with the trending nature
of outdoor kitchens,
how has all tile shaped
its outdoor collection
for outdoor back splashes?
Yeah.
Good question. Me.
And in general
we tend to lean into frost proof products
if we're going to take them outside,
even though the kitchen might be,
you know, undercover and semi protected
and in those types of products
with that lovely thin brick,
we've got two by eight
tiles, three by nine tiles.
We've got a new series called remedy.
It's glazed porcelain.
It's really, really a gorgeous product.
And has taken off in popularity,
not only for outdoor backsplash, it's
but we can really wrap
the entire kitchen cabinetry
with a lot of different products, too.
but interestingly,
that remedy
is also taken off as a waterline.
oh.
Which sort of led to a trend where,
you know, rather
than maybe your backsplash
and your outdoor
kitchen pulling from your indoor
kitchen before
you can actually tie it,
for example, to the water
line, tile your pool
so you can come up a little bit more fun,
festive
kind of looks for your outdoor spaces
that generally tend
to be a little bit less formal.
I know for sure I've.
I've looked at your guys's products,
even in our Saint Louis showroom
and the way that, you know,
a backsplash can be
also be used for a pool tile,
or in the pool.
There's just so many different ways
you can use it.
And so being able to repeat
maybe the same tile for your
your kitchen
backsplash also in the pool
that really like ties
everything together.
Yeah.
It really makes a nice cohesive,
you know, environment
for your outdoor enjoyment. Yes.
so with these outdoor kitchens comes
the need for outdoor countertops.
How does it all tile,
outdoor countertops?
How do they meet the temperature
and durability needs of homeowners?
Yeah. Great question Molly.
And you know, often
this is kind of an overlooked element
when designing the backyard space
because, you know,
historically it's either
been like a poured
concrete countertop or, you know,
hopefully a really dense
type of natural stone.
And,
those are just sort of,
you know, the old faithful
go to for everybody.
but we've got products
in our currently our,
you know, our favorite one for an outdoor
countertop is panoramic porcelain.
So it's porcelain.
So it has all the same
performance characteristics
as the pavers
that we've been talking about, you know?
So,
it just has a stunning array of visuals
available. They're very large slabs.
You put a safety backer on the back,
and it makes a perfect,
outdoor countertop.
But I also have a little bit
of a spoiler alert
for, for you, Molly,
and for everybody listening.
We're about to launch large slabs
of countertop
slabs of porcelain
that are two centimeters thick.
But the real magic is the veining goes
all the way through.
So if you do a cutout for,
you know, under my sink on the counter,
that exposed edge
that's been cut,
the veins are going to still be there,
just like a natural stone.
So that's instantly
going to be the best countertop
material on the market.
It's going to look great, too.
I'm doing it.
Not all edges with it,
you know, to make a really nice
or upscale outdoor environment.
Yes for sure.
Would you say just moving towards
something like that away
from what we used to see,
just like concrete
pouring for countertops.
What has inspired that trend
to really like move to the forefront?
And it's designed
I think,
just basically
when people again, Covid
was kind of a big deal about this.
But as people started moving outside,
a couple of things happened.
One, some of the more
traditional materials
were in short supply,
so people were looking for other
for other options.
but then a lot of people
that hadn't really considered outdoor
living that much in the past
maybe aren't your most outdoor
living kind of folks,
but kind of got into it.
You know, they start
they don't have some of the same biases.
So they really
people really wanted
to have very low maintenance,
indoor quality,
esthetic outdoor living spaces.
People just weren't looking.
And we've got it now for sure.
That's great.
How has that style helped
make outdoor tiling achievable
for any homeowners budget?
Well, you know, we we see it.
We just kind of
talked about a little bit.
But these like
elegant outdoor spaces, sometimes
when you see them you're like
I don't know
if I'll ever get to that point.
Like, Will I ever have enough money
for something so elegant like that?
But are there products that,
you know are a little bit
more achievable?
That,
dull tile makes it really easy
for any
homeowner to kind of get a little taste
of that kind of elegant outdoor space,
but on a budget.
Yeah, absolutely. Molly.
I mean, we've got products
seeded in sort of your,
you know, your traditional
good better back kind of buckets.
But that good bucket is still already
very very good.
So for example
if you're looking at your outdoor floor
and you want to put some tile on it,
we've talked earlier about textured
porcelain floor tile.
We've talked about stepwise.
Those are both really,
really nice
offerings at the really competitive
price points
or an entry level price point.
Then from there, you move up,
you know,
you know, into your,
you really those kind of good and better
for texture, good stepwise better.
Then you get into TCM
and your natural stones
is your best level.
but in all honesty,
those aren't necessarily
that expensive either are made in USA.
TCM is very, very price competitive.
And if you look at other materials
that you would be comparing against,
you know, locally sourced natural stones,
a lot of concrete pavers
and things like that,
the the price point
difference is almost nonexistent
in a lot of cases.
Okay. Awesome.
That's good to know.
I'm keeping that in my mind for when I'm
I'm putting together
an outdoor space in my future.
what product innovations?
from DalTile
can take an outdoor
remodel to the next level?
Everything.
Basically, just
the offering in general is so broad.
the.
Yeah, designs
about anything that you want.
So we've got a huge range of designs
and sizes,
in just our two CM pavers, for example.
Really
one of the most extensive offerings
in North America today.
They take our stepwise styles
and all the different sizes and formats
and those
and there's just a tremendous
amount of looks that you can achieve.
Just kind of an interesting one.
we've partnered with Oceanside Glass
on a collection of glass
mosaics, offers and the ability
to go onto our website,
customize the sheet however you want,
you know, make different colors
in different percentage, for example.
And it's got an extremely low,
minimum order quantity
of just one carton. Right.
So that's a really a cool way
to create a little customized extra pop
and kind of glitz
and glamor in your backyard
at a really accessible price point.
And then,
a lot of folks in your audience
right now
are already doing
project work
where they've got connectivity
to other trades.
Right? Like plumbers, electricians.
You need those outside, too.
So, you could partner with a plumber
and create, you know, relatively,
you know,
affordable entry level feature
like an outdoor shower, right?
It's like the ultimate entry level pool.
If a pool is not in the budget
and outdoor shower
that when really every home in America
should have an outdoor
shower and a petrol station
right next to it?
Yes.
that's yeah, that's a dream scenario.
I especially like the outdoor pet station
not having to throw my dog
in the bathtub.
yeah,
it seems a little bit nicer outside,
and I try to try to keep him
corralled in the bathroom until you see.
Oh, yes.
We got to make sure all the
doors are closed. We
gotta, like,
always look at him and tell him to stay.
Yeah.
so what specific designs or.
Sorry, what
Pacific products
in the outdoor space for a tile?
Have you seen like, sell
the most in 2024 so far?
Like what has been
number one top selling product or some of
the products?
Sure.
The,
you know, the
the two C,
porcelain pavers
are kind of the foundational product
of our exteriors line.
And so, as we said,
generally lighter colors.
But we recently came out with a new
is called virtual.
And it has two colors
and sort of a marble visual
that's taken off,
that's taken off really fast,
especially the lighter color.
And then we also have one
that's frankly a darker color.
but it has a ton of variation.
It's called Lanesboro.
And it comes in two sizes,
12 by 24 and 24 by 24,
but it replicates a full color range
Pennsylvania blue stone.
So yeah, it's really gorgeous.
Yeah. Gorgeous product.
and you know, it allows you to say
you live in Southern California.
A truckload of Pennsylvania
blue stones
can be pretty pricey to get out there,
but now you can have it a lower
price point,
you know, more,
easily, easy to install format.
And then you get the long term lasting
benefits of porcelain as a material, too.
So that one has really taken off,
quite a bit for sure.
That's great.
So Daltile has been a fantastic partner
for Prosource.
we thoroughly enjoy
working with you all.
Can you elaborate on why
DalTile continues
to be one of our partners
and sells products with us?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. We're, a downtown.
We're very proud of our long legacy
relationship with CCI global
and the ProSource team.
We have always operated
with a high level of professionalism,
and we certainly enjoy
that aspect of the relationship.
And then we believe that
we offer a full complement
of products
and services that fit
well with the pro sauce model,
because we recognize
the reach of the pro
sauce has into the Pro
into the Pro installer segment.
So we're honored to be a trusted
vendor partner
to the Pro Sauce team,
working together
for a long time, for decades.
And in fact and,
we're certainly proud to continue
that relationship now.
Thanks for that awesome. Yeah. Thank you.
One last question.
Looking into 2025, where are we heading?
And outdoor tiling.
What are you
what are you thinking
that's going to happen.
Yeah I mean protection.
Yeah.
Sky's the limit model.
It truly is.
I mean we're seeing,
you know, strong,
strong trends
in the world of outdoor living,
both residential and commercially.
here's an interesting one to me.
I think, we see that the TNA
is investing time
and effort
into establishing
outdoor installation standards.
It'll help more tile contractors
move into the world of outdoor living,
and we're participating
in that effort as well.
And honestly,
you know,
you know, for your customers,
it's really a logical extension
of their business
and a great gateway
to improving their own profitability.
Our program collection of products
and installation
methods and contractor education, right,
so that we're ready to support
the Prosource team,
expand into the great outdoors.
And, Molly,
as we like to say
all the time here in downtown,
especially the exteriors program,
let's take it outside.
Yes, I love that.
Yeah,
we look forward to growing our outdoor
living area
and all of our showrooms as well.
I know it's an ongoing journey, I guess.
not every single one of our
showrooms has an outdoor living's,
area
where they're offering outdoor
living products, but,
I know just from hearing
from our product
merchandizing team
that that's
one of our goals
is to extend
that to all of our showrooms.
So we look forward
to growing that with you guys.
Yeah, I guess certainly we do too.
And really,
you know, those
that don't have that type of,
you know, display in their showroom
right now,
just tell them that the space is outdoors
or bigger.
The AC views on the products
tend to be higher.
And you can do
two jobs in one trip, right?
You can do that inside
left website at the same time,
same labor.
We're definitely on the way there,
so it'll be interesting
to see how it is at this time next year.
I'm sure it's going to be doubling
with the amount of like showrooms
we have that offer it.
So that's I'm looking forward to it.
Well,
thank you so much, Phil,
for being on the podcast today.
We appreciate you.
Have a great rest of your day.
All right sir.
Enjoyed it.
Thank you Molly.
And thanks everybody on the pro
sports team have a great weekend.
Thank you for joining us today
on the ProSource podcast.
Please like and subscribe to us
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Also follow us on social media,
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