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Episode 836: In this episode, we dive into Romans chapter 10, exploring one of the most inclusive and well-known verses regarding salvation. We discuss the contrast between the law's way of achieving righteousness through obedience and faith's way, which emphasizes belief in Jesus Christ. We unpack the somewhat perplexing phrases in the scripture that suggest we don't need to go to extremes to attain salvation; rather, it is readily available to us through faith.
Whether you’ve been following Jesus for years or you’re just starting to ask questions, there’s a seat for you here.
Join Jeff and Chris for honest conversations about Scripture, faith, and the everyday stuff we all navigate. With humor, personal stories, and plenty of back-and-forth, The Bible Guys explore what the Bible says and how it connects to your life.
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You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome to another week. Hopefully you're with us all week. Hopefully of the Bible Guys. As opposed to the first six seconds going I'm out, I'm out. Yeah, these guys aren't good looking enough for me. That's right. Well, that's not why they would cancel. Oh look at you confidence. I like it. I like it, Jeff. We are starting a brand new week this week of the Bible Guys in our series about the promises of God, and today's theme. Is a good one. It's a good theme, good one, it's a big one. I'm a big fan of this theme. I don't know. I love every time you say that it's God's salvation and eternal life. Holy Christmas, literally Holy Christmas. I always say Holy Christmas, but it always seems appropriate around Chris. It does up. And so today, before we dive into that, Desiree has come up with a segment where she has pulled from our fans. And this segment has a theme, a jingle, and it's called mail Bags. I think we're getting better over the years. We're getting oh man, incredible which you recorded? Yeah, wait a minute, I just did here you go. We could just we get a bus and hit the road. You remember you remember back in the day, uh, in all those old movies where they would do sound effects, you know, like for radio disc jockeys, and they would be like on cassette or sometimes like even like an a tract tape where they punch it in and there'd be one guy just waiting in the wings with sound effects. Mail bags, Yeah, you're just super excited about it. Yeah. Anyway, explosions, all those kinds of things. Yeah, all those things. So anyway, so today we're doing mail bags and this is from Jen m Hi. Jen. Jen says, just wanted to take him out to say thanks for all you done. Yep, very nice all that we do. Every I took the garbage oue this morning. Good for you. And Jen's appreciative. Yes, it's nice to have somebody appreciate what we do. Are you saying your family, Jeff, you just say your family doesn't appreciate you. Where do you go if you had to give here's the question, if you had to give a Ted talk right now with no prep, what would your topic be. TED talks are the pinnacle. They are the cinnicle. So I made a joke right before I just literally read this before we started recording it. I said, anybody who even answers this has a sense of arrogance, right, because because that would mean that you're qualified, you would think that you But that's not what she's saying. She's saying, if you had to right, yeah, And so she's not saying you're going to be a great at it, She's just saying, on your mark set go. Yeah. Well, let's let's explain for the listeners who don't know what a TED talk is. Oh yeah, TED talks are usually so there. It's business people and thought leader and sometimes cultural Yeah, cultural icons that tend to be subject matter experts on a thing or they're leading thought or thought leaders on a concept, and they make what are they twelve minutes? Is that how long? There? Yeah, there's something like this, twelve minute speeches in front of these giant crowds, and it's just for downloading the biggest thoughts and the best information or the most clever way of thinking of the thing. And so there's kind of a formula to how they how they build the speeches, and they just tend to have this tremendous impact. It's really really powerful. So, you know, to be invited to be a ted Talk speaker is I mean, there's not many things higher as far as praise of saying, man, you're a good speaker or a good thinker? Yeah, what were somebody who has a lot of knowledge? Yeah, we're early above yeah yeah yeah yeah, and the answers. So what would what would be your ted talk right now? Word with no preder. Honestly, I this is such an inadequate answer, It really is, because I can't think of anything. Right, what do your subject matter expert on? Well? I mean expert means ten thousand hours plus. Right, Okay, if that's your if that's your standard, true, well welcome Gladwell's thought in Yes, outliers. Yeah that's right. Not only that, also if you're born in January that helps. What I read the book? Didn't you read the book? No? Why? No? Okay, it's a whole other thing. Nugget, that nugget was passed on. That nugget was passed on that I picked up that somebody once said, and I'm sure it's from this book. If somebody puts ten thousand hours into something, then they're probably in the category of an expert. Sure, right, So honestly, if I had to give a TED talk about something right now, and now, this is crazy, but I think I would give a TED talk on those who lead funerals. Oh well, yeah, leading funerals. Yeah. And the reason why is because I definitely have my ten thousand hours in them. I've been told by people who have spent their entire lives funeral directors, funeral owners, people who have literally seen tens of thousands of funerals. I've been told by those people that, well, let's just say. That you do a good job, yeah or above, it's impactful. Yeah or above. They've made some outlandish statements. So I never I never wanted to be good at funerals. I didn't seek to be good at funerals. But I've been told that I'm good at funerals in a really high way. And then when I was told that, like twenty years ago, I started to really pay attention to those who lead funerals. So I'm not talking about like, you know, Aunt Betty, who you know gets up and says a few words about the deceased. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about all the rest of the pros. I'm talking about the officiants right now. There's a big difference obviously, between like a Catholic mass funeral, like I'm not, certainly not any expert on that, although I did grow up Catholic and have gone to my share of those, But for a Protestant funeral for those who you know are Christian Protestants who you know, gather information about the deceased, and then they present, and then they you know, they lead people right, and then they they share comforting promises of the scriptures and all the above. I feel like I've put my ten thousand hours in and I feel like I can really coach people. And the reason why is because it's and this is a this is a built bold statement. I don't want to be offensive, but it is amazing to me how little little coaching there is in this area. Like have you ever read a book about that? Yes? Have you really? Yes? Okay, well I've never had. Yeah, before my first funeral. I've never even seen a book about that. Yeah, And certainly I've never heard and you've never talked about it, so it must not have been a great book, right, So I've never heard anybody talk about books like that, So I don't think that there's a lot of coaching in this area. And it's amazing to me how bad people are. And that's the bold statement. I don't mean to offend, but there are so many people who leave bad funerals and they somehow make it about them, right, right. It's like it's like somehow I'm gonna get up there and I'm going to pretend to talk about the person that we're honoring today, but somehow I'm going to turn it back to me. Yeah. I remember one time I was nobody cares. Nobody cares, right, this this you know, in my life, nobody cares. Right. So anyway, that's it. That's what I would say. Okay, what's a great way to start Monday about funerals as opposed to I also think you're a subject a matter expert on just public speaking in general, so you could talk about that too, which you know, funerals is a subcategory of the rest, So yeah, you can do that. I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, well good, that was exciting. Seven minutes and forty seconds in is great. You're just saying I took two hour. Well no, no, I mean everybody was riveted on funeral conversation. Well, I felt like I had to explain. Yeah, I know, I didn't realize that we we sort of wasted two minutes before you. Well you almost gave a TED talk on the Ted. Talk, except that didn't do any of the how. To exactly what you got? You got four more minutes, woun. Then give back it down, but then give us give us at least a thirty second answer on the subject matter of your time. I don't know, I was trying to all the time. I don't know. Uh, global mission, strategy, building culture and an organization barbecuing on your back patio barbecue you. Did so yeah, right, I'm not saying you couldn't in the others I could. I could do all three probably on Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah, especially with the help of chet GPT in our lives, right, So uh yeah those are good. Yeah. And by the way, uh, do you feel like there is a major need? Probably the barbecue is the least major need, right, because there's a lot of food people out there, sure, right, But the other ones, do you feel like there's. A I haven't written one and haven't researched it. I don't think I've ever contemplated this thought until we read it like nine minutes ago. Right, yeah, well we read it seven minutes. You'll take it because we read it right before. We we wasted two minutes. Ye oh yeah, yeah, yeah, because we read it before. She said record that's right. Okay, So sorry, that was the fun one. Sorry to take all the minutes, Sorry to take. You gen that was amazing, and uh, just the fact that she took a minute to say thanks, Yeah, it's great. Yeah, and uh, you know what else takes just a split second, and it's a very short amount of time's salvation? Yeah for you what God's worked through all of human history to get to your salvation. But yeah, for you, it only takes a split second. Yeah, well I mean for you too. Yeah. Yeah. So so yeah, there's the transition for each of us. Yes, today we're talking about Romans chapter ten, one of the most inclusive and famous verses in the Bible when it comes to salvation. Yeah, sure, yeah, chapter ten. Yeah, are you still throwing off that? I was trying to figure out. I was trying to figure out No, I was trying figure out where I wanted to start, Let's just start in verse five. I think verse five is a good spot here. In Romes, chapter Tennis says, for Moses writes that the law's way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands. But faith's way of getting right with God says, don't say in your heart, who will go up to heaven to bring Christ down to earth? And don't say who will go down to the place of the dead to bring Christ back to life again. That's weird. We'll talk about that in a minute. In fact, that says the message is very close at hand. It is on your lips and in your heart, and that message is the very message about faith that we preach. If you openly declare that Jesus's Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing your heart that you're made right with God, and it's by openly declaring your faith that you are saved. As the scriptures tell us, anyone who trust in Him will never be disgraced. Jew and gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call in him, for everyone who calls in the name of the Lord will be saved. But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they've never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells him? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That's why the scriptures say, how beautiful are the feet of the messengers who bring the good news. But not everyone welcomes the good news. For Isaiah, the prophet said, Lord, who has believed our message? So faith comes from hearing that is, hearing the good news about Christ. How about that? Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. There's some pretty classic and powerful and fundamental thoughts about salvation. And I know that you said we're going to talk about those things. Yeah, let's get the weird part out of the way. Let's do that for us. So he says. Moses says that the only way to get right with God is to obey the law. That's the law's way is you have to obey all of it, all of its commands. But he says faith's way of getting right with God. Says, don't say in your heart who'll go up to heaven or and don't say who'll go down to the place to the dead right to bring back Christ back. That's a really weird phrase, but it's a it's kind of a Greek Hebrew thing. And what he's talking about is extreme measures. Heaven is the hardest thing to get to up right, the place of the dead, or Hell is the hardest thing to do or get to going down. That's that's really it. And so that phrase is saying you don't have to go to extremes to have your sense forgiven and be made right with God. As a matter of fact, the very next sentence says, in fact, it says, the message is very close at hand. You don't have to go extremely far one way or that up or down. You don't have to go to the ends either. It would almost be like if you and I said, listen, you don't have to give a million bucks, you don't have to do a thousand push ups, you don't have to suddenly be a good boy for you know, three hundred days in a row in order to be right with God. That's not you know, go to go to seven thousand church services that you know, that's all he's saying, is he's trying to use extreme illustrations to say you don't have to go to the extremes. It's right at hand for you. Yeah, it's just faith. And he starts off by talking about Moses, writes that you know the law, it's the law's way of making person right, and that would that would be the perfect example to couple with Moses, because obeying all of the law is also an extreme example. So he starts with the law, and then he talks about heaven and Hell. Right, so all three of those are extreme. But then he's then he's saying, no, that's not the case. Right right, So verse five or verse six says faith's way of getting right with God isn't extreme. Then he gives these phrases that would kind of set us off a little bit trying to figure out what it means, and then he keep he buttons it up saying, in fact, it says so it's all one big idea. He could have just said faith's way of getting right with God doesn't require us going to extremes. In fact, it's right at hand. That's what he could have said, but he used a colloquialism in their day that they would have understood that. Sometimes we have to explain. Yeah, anyways, that's out of the way, and it. Really and reinforces the the law versus grace. Right, And he says, and that's the very message we preach about faith that we that we preach. Right, if you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God rais him from the dead, you will be saved. So let's pose this question real quick. Does a person have to say it out loud? That? Because I've heard people say that before, in fact, even just recently, right, Ye, Because sometimes on Sundays I'll say, hey, I'll pray the Salvation prayer. You can pray with me, and you don't have to say it out loud. You could say it in your mind and in your heart. And then and some person said, hey, and they pose a question, and they said, doesn't the Bible say you have to say it out loud confess with your mouth And they're referring to this verse in Romans. That would mean every mute person is on their way to hell. They cannot be saved. That's correct, Yeah, that's correct. That made it impossible. Aha, you can't. Yeah, so I actually looked up some sit ready. In the Greek, the word homo loggio means to openly agree or to publicly affirm. It's about willingness, not just volume. Right, you could nod your head, that counts. That's right. So in an ancient world, confession wasn't sentence that you recited. It meant openly identifying with Jesus, not being ashamed of him or declaiming loyalty even when costly. Right. So scripture shows people saved without audible speech, like the thief on the Cross, people healed by Jesus, and the Book of Acts. People believe with their heart, then baptism became their public confession. Right if on the Cross asked, well, yeah, it says he never expressed the sinner's prayer. He simply expressed. Trust in Jesus expressed faith. Yeah, he definitely expressed faith for sure. But the heart of the Gospel always describe salvation through faith by grace, not of good deeds, which would include having to jump through the hoops of saying something with your vocal courts. Right, so confession looks like today, you know, not being ashamed of Jesus, identifying with him, publicly living out your faith, acknowledging him before others went asked. So the sentence structure of Hebrews and of Greeks tends to put the adjectives, adverbs and the biggest ideas at the end at the beginning right. And so if you take this passage together, he talks about openly declaring. That means you're you're affirming that Jesus is your lord. That means king lord is just an old English word for king or leader or ruler. And you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Then he says, because it's by believing your heart that you're made right with God. So that's the faith moment for you know, salvations by faith. And then he says, it's by openly decarrying your faith that you're saved. And he says anyone who trusts in Him will never be disgraced. So he talks about openly declaring, and he talks about believing two times, and then he buttons it up by saying, because anybody who trusts in God will be saved, right, And so that's he's kind of putting the putting the exclamation point on it. It's the trust thing. It's not the act of saying Jesus is my lord. Right. But if you are, if faith has really penetrated your heart and you you do believe, and you've decided that you want God to be the king of Jesus to be the king of your life, then obviously you're not going to be ashamed of it. You're not going to try to hide it. I was just listening to a podcast and a tattoo artist in Jerusalem. His family has owned the same shop for seven hundred years. Oh, come on, seven hundred. He's the twenty seventh direct person in line. Can you imagine if you were the guy that said I want to be a dentist. Well, he told his dad he wasn't going to do it. He told his dad he wasn't going to do it, and he left. I just made myself last. I just made myself alive. Hervey, Yeah, Herbie wants to be a dentist. Yeah, that's right. So he's the twenty seventh person in line. And when he was a young man he told his dad, I'm not going to do it. But when he was in his thirties, he came back and said, I need to do this. I feel like God wants me to do it well. And the tet they were Coptic Christians. When Islam took over Egypt, their family left, but their family was responsible in Egypt when Islam took over. There's a tax in some of the more the stronger things. If you're a Christian and you refuse to convert, then you have to pay jazia jesse is an extra tax for your because you're not a Muslim, so you're not getting a rebate, you get to pay extra. And so they began tattooing Christians with a cross on their arm. Then they would just pull it up and go, okay, you owe extra right and have to pay extra tax. So his family was responsible for doing that. They would do that well. Then they left and they moved. His father, his great great great you know, twenty seven grandfathers Ago went to Jerusalem on a pilgrimage and helped tattoo some people who were celebrating their pilgrimage to Israel seven hundred years ago. And people were thrilled. And you know, when you would go and traveling like that, you'd have to stay for weeks or months at a time, and so that's what he's doing. He was given these commemorative tattoos of the fact you made it to Israel for Christians. And next thing, you know, all these other Coptics began move into the area and they began to not tattoo the forearm. They wanted the tattoo rate at their wrist so that every time they shook a man's hand, I'm a follower of Jesus. Don I want you to know it. So instead of it being a shame thing that you're not one of us, they began tattooing it right out in front, so every time that they would go to shake hand, they see it. So now he has these stamps, you know, because they put the stamp in ink stamping on your thing and then trace the stamp. He has some stamps that are over five hundred years old, primarily like the Jerusalem Cross on some of these things commemorating. And he said, almost every person that comes one, they're thrilled that they have come to Israel. But he said, it's also a definitive thing. My faith is so real. I don't want to ever have a time when somebody isn't aware that I'm a Christian even when my words aren't speaking. So people still requested that stamp. Yeah, or that tattoo yeah yeah, yeah today Yeah, a pastor friend of ours has it, by the way, Yeah yeah, he got it when he was there, and so he was interviewing him on his podcast. Talk about a story. Yeah yeah. I mean when somebody says, hey, what does that mean? Gives people often say hey, explain to me. You're ink right, what's the story behind your tatchoeh? So he has a Jerusalem Cross and he has it right here so that everybody can see it. That. Yeah, but they all do it, right they so that whole culture. And so here you are in Israel, and he said, you know, he's Arab, Arabic, he's not Jewish, so he doesn't fit in with the Jewish people very much. I think I know our friend here and he he. Is, but he doesn't fit in with the Muslim Palestinians either. He said, I just I just stand out all the time. And he said, either you can decide you're going to try to hide it, or you can embrace it and say I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. He said, I'm just not ashamed. Well, that is an incredible story. We should do a video story on that tattoo. Yeah, I'm not kidding. Isn't it cool? And so so he That's what it's talking about is you're openly declaring Jesus is my lord. Right hey, you openly declare that you're a Lions fan or a Patriots fan fan or no nobody, gross age, only dumb people. I'm openly declaring, I'm I'm a Michigan fan. Yeah right now, yeah right. You're openly declaring you're a heritage fan. And yet we get really shy about the single most important relationship we've ever had, right, and we don't want people to know. And I'm not saying everybody should go out and get a tattoo. I'm not saying that. I'm saying this salvation thing is I'm openly declaring. It's not the words I say, right, it's the fact that Jesus is my king and I'm not ashamed of him. And the reason he's my king is because he's the one who rose from the dead, defeating my sins, yeah right, and paying the price. That's it. And it's those two things together. I have to believe that Jesus paid the price and rose again. And then I'm inviting him to be the Lord of my life. And he said, if you get to that doesn't matter whether you have a Jewish religious background or a gentile religious background, which would be a pagan background. Right. Sure, he says, it doesn't matter. Everyone who calls them the name of the Lord will be safe. That's it. I feel very gentile. Yeah, yeah, So after we get past our key verse for today, that is the featured verse for today, for everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Right after that, he goes into what I've always thought is one of the most convicting set of passages when it comes to the Gospel and in ministry in general. Right, so, he says, how are they going to call them unless they believe? And how they going to believe unless they don't hear? Right, unless they hear? And then how are they going to hear unless someone tells them? And how's anyone going to go tell them if they don't go. So it's interesting because what he does is he retraces salvation. He backs up and he says, hey, when somebody becomes a Christian, how are they going to become a Christian and less. And then he sort of goes backwards and he goes all the way back to you, and he goes back to me, and he says, Okay, it starts with someone who says, I'm going to go tell them and then I'm going to speak out loud, and then they're going to hear, and then they're going to believe, and then they're going to become a Christian. Right, And he says, how are they going to do any of that unless it first starts with you. He directly connects us to this mission. Yes, yeah, yes, And then then it says, that's why the scripture say how beautiful the feet of the messengers who bring the good news. And so it really is just a reminder that every single time that we, you know, publicly profess our faith, that it could lead to somebody's eternal destination. Every time that we let me say that differently in case that this is going to be a SoundBite, because I messed that up, I got tongue tied. Paul is trying to say that this is a reminder that every time that we are not ashamed of the Gospel, it can change people's eternal destination because it starts with us, and because we publicly profess, because we are loud, because we are not ashamed, because we were crystal clarity tell people that Jesus Christ is the way to heaven. People can be saved through our lives, and sometimes we don't understand that. And so, for instance, if we're at Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner, I guess now right where you know, all of a sudden, the conversation starts and it turns toward God or somebody brings up a spiritual thought, and all of a sudden, we're like, oh, I'm just going to be quiet. I'm not going to go down that road as opposed to saying no, absolutely, I'll tell you everything that I believe. In fact, I'm excited about it, and I'm excited for you to hear about it and share it in a way that feels comfortable and non apologetic, but at the same time not overbearing or creepy. Right in the context of love, in the context of friendship, you know to be you could even do this with a stranger, right and do it in a way that's appropriate. But every time you do that, Paul's connecting the dots and saying that could lead to somebody's eternity. That can lead to the conversation. But I think you know the seventh verse seventeen. So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the good news about Christ. Okay, the literal translation is faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Right. And so I was just talking to a young guy who has been working so hard to share his faith. He's been telling everybody. He told me how frustrated he was that he wasn't actually closing the deal leading people to Jesus. He just found out found that he was talking about Jesus and talking about faith a lot. And I said, well, what scriptures are you using? Bless you? Yeah, I said, what scriptures are you using? He goes, well, I haven't used him memorized any yet. I said, well, there you go. That's the issue. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Not faith comes by hearing Chris's words or faith comes by hearing by hearing Jeff's words. Faith comes by hearing and hearing through the word of God. They have to hear God's words. God's word is what cuts. God's word is what proves Jesus is who he says he is, right, it's not my thoughts about the resurrection. It's what the Bible says about the resurrections. It's what the Bible says about the mechanisms of salvation and the process of salvation. And so the Holy Spirit blesses God's words. And that's verse seventeen that we read here, right. So all the other things, the being nice to somebody, that doesn't get anybody to heaven. God's words get people to Heaven. Right, Faith in the fact that God's words says it. But being nice to somebody opens up the spiritual conversation. So the scariest thing for me is ever encourage anybody be super nice to your neighbors, and maybe they'll go to heaven. Someday They're gonna miss heaven and have really nice neighbors. Yeah, that's a dangerous stunt, right right. So what we want to do is say, be really nice to the people around you represent Jesus. Look for the opportunities to develop those friendships and those relationships so you can openly declare the words of God. Because faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Yeah, that's great. That's super important. Yep, super important, big fan. Big fan. There you go, turn it back on me. Awesome. So hey, that is definitely our time, so hopefully we will see tomorrow on the Bible. Guys,