Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Discover The Humanity of Homelessness, a podcast from Church at the Park that brings you honest, heartfelt conversations with people experiencing homelessness, community leaders, and staff.
John Marshall | 00:00
One of the questions I get asked often is, What comes first? Is it homelessness that leads to drug use or is it drug use that leads to homelessness? And the response that I've had to kind of manufacture in response to that question is, I think it's a little bit like asking what comes first, the chicken or the egg.
Michelle Barnes | 00:16
For me, for my story, it was my mental health. There was just a lot of, you know, stress. Loss and grief and depression and anxiety and change. That happened and then I relapsed and then that relapse brought everything else. It's different for everyone.
You know, some like I met plenty of people who chose to be outside because they didn't want to the responsibility of a place to live. So there's that aspect, too, of this. But there's people with mental health issues that are going unaddressed. That have no place safe to go, that end up on drugs because that's the only thing left to do, really.
Like, once you're on the street, if you're not awake to try and protect yourself. Then you're gonna like... You're Yeah, absolutely.
John Marshall | 01:04
Vulnerable.
Michelle Barnes | 01:06
People come into your camp and like, especially if you're a female out there, if they find out you're alone, you're going to be a target.
Chris Hahn | 01:17
Hi, this is Chris, media specialist for Church of the Park. Thank you for tuning in for this episode of The Humanity of Homelessness, a podcast from Church of the Park in Salem, Oregon. In each episode, we hear from a member of our community who has or is experiencing homelessness. We invite them to share their own story, in their own words, so that they and we might remember their goodness, their courage, and their humanity. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
John Marshall | 01:47
Hey everyone, John here. I'm delighted that our guest today is my good friend, Michelle. As you'll hear in our conversation, Michelle and her then partner Mo were two of the first humans I met when I joined Church of the Park in 2020. When I think of those early memories of knowing them, I remember how clearly both of them wanted a better life for themselves. And how hard the work was. The pain and trauma of their circumstances keeping them trapped in survival mode. Their journey into stability was long and certainly not linear. It required them to take chances on themselves and often do the most vulnerable thing there is. Ask for help. In fact, I think Michelle is one of the best people I know at asking for help. In our conversation, Michelle described some of the layers that made her journey into and out of homelessness so painful and challenging. I want to warn you that we discuss the topics of substance use, abuse, suicide and rape. If any of those topics are painful for you, Please take care of yourself as you listen. But as you listen, you'll hear the profound resiliency within Michelle. And her capacity to see herself as good and worthy. Shall illuminate the impact of relationships, good and bad, and how we all need people to remind us that we are good and worthy. It was an impactful conversation for me, and I hope it will be for you too as you listen. Thanks for being with us.
Well, I'll just start with saying that I'm really grateful you're here. I was sharing with my wife on my way here. She was asking who I was interviewing and I was just reminiscing about meeting you and Moe, out at the park and I can't even remember if You were in a rig at the time that I met you two. Nope. I didn't think so. I thought you were pretty sure that you were in a tent.- Yep. But I was... As I was thinking back to the parts of your story that I am aware of, And what I'm aware of right now is true for you. I was feeling really grateful and blessed to even know you. Thank you. Grateful that you would be willing to share your story. I often ask people to start with their first definition of home, like where you grew up, what childhood was like. And I'm curious, as you think about who you are today, what are the parts of your earliest years that are really important for you as you understand yourself. Start there. Where'd you grow up?
Michelle Barnes | 04:32
I grew up here in Salem. I've been here my whole life. I lived with my mom and my dad and my four siblings. I'm the youngest of five. And life with that family unit was very traumatic and chaotic. There was a lot of physical violence that I witnessed almost every day from the time I was born until about eight years old. My dad, my mom thought constantly. My dad was on drugs at the time and he was abusive to the older kids as well. I never got abused. I just saw that. But there was some sexual abuse that happened to me was a family member, that I was really young and I heard stories. I don't remember anything of it, so I don't know if it really happened. Or not?
So that's kind of... The hard part, I think, about the story not knowing for sure what really took place at those formative years. But then my grandparents, we would go and stay with them, me and two of my siblings. We would go stay with them as we, because my to give my mom and dad a break basically. And they wanted us.
So we were there about half the time, three days a week, four days a week. Did your grandparents local? Yep. They were local. They were just a few miles away usually. And so with them, life was a little different. They owned their house. They didn't, yeah, they fought, but it was more of a safe place for us.
So they would take us on vacations every year. We lived two separate lives, basically, with the abuse from my family. Parental unit and then the we can go and be spoiled at my grandparents and have both sides of yes yeah absolutely.
John Marshall | 06:33
The yeah it sounds like grandparents was the place where you got to be a kid where else I mean, you grew up in Salem, so I'm curious where else... You would call like your stomping grounds and where you got to be a kid in Salem.
Michelle Barnes | 06:50
Over on Sunnyview is where we spent a lot of time because my grandparents, they had just about a half acre property. It was in the middle of the city limits, though. But when they bought their house, it was a country house. And so it was a country deed.
So there was a huge farmland behind us. And down a little ways was what used to be called the Christian Center, which is now Blanchette. And so back then, growing up, it was like a little forest. There was trees. And so that whole block between Sunnyview and Market Street and then up to 45th was Blanchette. Not developed yet. And so, we, we've spent a lot of time out there riding motorcycles. And then as I got older, we, me and my sister went and hung out a lot. We did some gut, Participation.
You know, it's gotten into some trouble down there a little bit. Just, you know, wherever.
And then I've met my friend, a couple girls from high school. We hung out a lot. My friend Leslie and I, we would go to We went to Silver Creek Falls at one point because we just needed a break from school and a lot of stuff was going on.
So we kind of just dipped out and went and spent a day at Silver Creek Falls before coming back to play basketball.
John Marshall | 08:09
Were you at.
Michelle Barnes | 08:10
McKay? At McKay, yeah. Yep. Played basketball there from... My freshman, sophomore year, and then I ended up pregnant my junior year.
So that kind of ended all my sports.
John Marshall | 08:24
I can imagine that was a moment where You had to grow up really fast.
Michelle Barnes | 08:29
Yeah, that was... Okay, so... The way that happened was... There was a divorce. My dad, after my mom and dad split up, my dad ended up getting married in like 93. Or '93, something like that. The wife he had They were together like six or eight years and then they ended up divorcing right around my entry into high school. And my dad stopped coming home. And so I was the only one left in the house and I got tired of being home alone.
So I started like skipping school. I was doing anything I could to get his attention. Ended up meeting this guy. He was a couple years older than me. And I was 17. He was 20. He was into heroin. And that was when I started doing heroin. And we were together just a couple months before he went to prison, but I managed to get pregnant in that time. Period.
And then I was... I overdosed and that's when I found out I was pregnant with my son. And I was in the hospital for a week. And I stayed clean through the pregnancy, didn't smoke cigarettes. I stayed clean actually for four years after that. And went to school, but, my medical assisting certificate, certificate, and then, I worked in a nursing home for a while and then, Life happens.
So. He ended up getting them. The father of my son got out of prison in 2005.
And then as soon as I started hanging out with him again, we started back doing drugs again. And so it was drug addiction was a big problem. Struggle for me. It was on and off, but I could quit when I needed to at the time. But You know, addiction doesn't just stop.
You know, it'll pick up right where you leave off and it will always get worse. Never not, It will never not get worse.
John Marshall | 10:30
Yeah. It's a common theme that I hear others share about their own journey. I... As I'm listening to things that I... I'm kind of piecing together as a storyline in my own brain or like growing up in a really unstable nuclear family, experiencing a glimpse of stability with your grandparents and, You named the fact that they owned their house and that was unique to you... Having parents who weren't as consistently in your life as you desired them to be trying to find some stability of relationship any way you could. And in the midst of, so in the midst of that, I'm, the two things I'm noticing are, P, And then... Broken relationship. And I... Question that I have and my brain is if you at the time that you were growing up you know, up to junior in high school, if there was a story that you were telling yourself about your value in the world based on all of that, like, do you remember What was your self-image like? Through all of those experiences.
Michelle Barnes | 11:49
.. I never really felt like I fit in anywhere.
Like, I felt like I wasn't worth it. Like, I wasn't even worth my dad coming home to be with at night.
Yeah, I may have been a teenager, older teenager, but I still needed a parent... And, I felt like And when I had my sports, that was my release. And that's when I actually felt like I was good enough for something because I was a good... I played sports really well.
Like, I was an all-star player. And I could have went very far with that. And I... I wanted... I was looking for love. I was looking for love in the wrong places. I was looking for something that I...
Thought I was worth, but I never felt like I could attain. And now I know different. Now I... After being through some stuff, I know that's not true. But back then it was... Hard not understanding why a parent wouldn't come home.
John Marshall | 12:52
Yeah, absolutely. How do you remember your siblings? Reacting and responding in the midst of All of that.
Michelle Barnes | 12:59
Well, the relationship with my siblings were, it was always kind of strained because my, like I said, my dad was abusive to them. But he wasn't to me. So, I would watch them. They would get bad grades in school, so I was straight A student. My dad, he would come and watch my games or my events because I was better in sports and he knew I'd win. And so he'd push them off.
So... Unfortunately, it strained my relationship with my siblings. They didn't really want me around. And my brother at the time, he, one of my brothers, he, He had some emotional issues too, and so there was a lot of violence between me and him.
Like I, like we didn't, Because what we saw growing up, we were violent to as kids to each other because that's all we knew.
John Marshall | 13:49
You emulated what you saw. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. When you got pregnant, What impact? Having that new person, that new life. In your story have on your own sense of self?
Michelle Barnes | 14:07
Man, I was totally scared. When I found out, I was like, I'm only 17, what am I going to do? And, I did. I feel like I did pretty well with him. And like I was home every night with him.
Like my grandma would tell me, go hang out with your friends for a little while. You're like, go do something. You've been home for two years straight.
Like you go to work and you come home. Just go take a break. Go do something for you. I'm like, okay. My son is all I have. That is me.
Like the, So I went from no identity to mom identity. And Like, I think... I didn't know that I still needed to be something for myself. And not just a mom, even though you know, parents, when you're, you have this idea, I'm going to be different than what my parents were.
So yeah, things were different for me and my son. It was just me and him for many years. I had a lot of family support from my grandparents. I couldn't have done it without him.
You know what I mean? But I wish I would have. I wish I would have... Not listen to the negativity that I got in this causing self-doubt. And I wish I would have taken the leap to go do something and break away from the family a little bit. Because I feel like my family was my downfall in the end. About But we'll get there. But yeah, but having my son was like the greatest thing ever. He was, When he was born, he was in the hospital for three weeks in Portland because he was... I had RH sensitization. There's a mess up with my pregnancy. It doesn't normally happen this day and age, but... It almost caused him to go brain dead, so... It was a very trying time in life. I just trying.
John Marshall | 16:06
Would say probably traumatic, not.
Michelle Barnes | 16:09
Yeah, very traumatic. Yeah.
Like, it was scary. I didn't know if he was going to make it or not. And the last day he was in the hospital, they called me and like, we need to do a blood transfusion immediately. I'm like, do whatever you need to. Don't call me again. I'll sign everything when I get to Portland. Because we were driving back and forth to Portland every day to see him.- Because at the time, OHSU wouldn't let minors stay in the Ronald McDonald House because we were minors.
Yeah. Which I'm glad that's changed now.
Yeah.
John Marshall | 16:40
As you were starting to tell these parts of the story, I think you named 2005 as this checkpoint in your brain. I met you in 2020. Right.
So what are the... You know, chapter lines between 2005 to 2020. It was, At that point, your son was how old?
Michelle Barnes | 17:01
My son was four, about four years old. Yep, and that's when I... So his dad got out. In around 2004, 2005, but 2005 I think was when It was my son's fourth birthday and DHS showed up on my doorstep and I had gotten clean because that's when I had relapsed for like 10 day period with his dad. And, I had managed to get clean, but I lost my job. And so I went to apply for welfare assistance and, but I got into drug and alcohol treatment too at that point. And, That ended up leading to an investigation for Child Protective Services to come out. And they ended up making the decision to take him, even though they didn't find any drugs in my house. I passed a U.A., And unfortunately, it was on his fourth birthday that they did that. I went and talked to them the next day. I did get arrested. I was in Marion County for eight hours for a resisting arrest charge that I didn't even, the next thing I knew the cops were grabbing me. I had no idea what was going on.
Like all I did was go to throw a diaper away. And the next thing I know I'm being attacked by these cops.
Yeah. For whatever reason. And, So DHS, the next day, they came to an agreement that they would let him come home with me. If I stayed with my grandparents through the first three months of... The child welfare case. And at that point, I stayed clean, did what I needed to. Everything like drug treatment was done. Parenting class was done. Everything, all their requirements were done within three months. But they kept the case open another three months just to make sure I had a job and I was stable and everything was good. And so that case was a whole six months long and it was the worst that first worst thing that could have happened, I guess.
And then in 2006, I... Got into another relationship. With my daughter's dad. And, That was a mistake. I love my daughter to death. She wasn't the mistake. The And that relationship ended after I found out I was pregnant. He wanted me to have an abortion and I told him no. And he and I, two weeks later, he assaulted me trying to cause a miscarriage. And that... Ended that relationship immediately. I did put him in jail over that. I don't tolerate violence like that after watching my parents go through it. And... My daughter was born April of 2007.
And then November of 2007... I'm I met my... Husband. And we were together, we got married on August 30th, 2008. And we were married. We separated in 2016, December 2016.
So... That was... Probably I There was a few times in that marriage that I used drugs, but I wasn't I finally, in 2014, my dad ended up dying. From Hep C and He and I were really close.
Like, even though the stuff happened when we were younger, my dad, he changed a lot. He was, he ended up being a wonderful grandpa, never yelled at the grandkids.
Like, if we tried to punish their grandkids in front of, his grandkids in front of him, he was like, don't yell at them. They're just babies. And we're like, why can't you be like that with us? But it was great to watch. But... I was using at that, like if I used for like a month before his death.
And then when he died, I got clean and I was clean for days. Two years. About two and a half years. And... Then I ended up losing my job. In 2016, And my husband... At the time, he's like... We were six weeks into this no job thing and he's like, if it weren't for me, we wouldn't have this place. If it weren't for me, I might sit here listening to him how... He's basically thrown into my face that I'm not working right at that point in time. And I had taken care of him most of our marriage.
Like I worked the entire 10 years. You know, like, he didn't even work for four years at that point during the that timeframe, but So it was kind of annoying and I got... Really depressed and My neighbor, we were coworkers, she goes, one time won't hurt. One hit won't hurt. And I just, at a weak spot, said, okay, and... I wish I never did that. That was... As soon as I took that hit, I saw everything flash, like everything that I had, I knew I was going to lose and I didn't know what to do to stop it.
Like, I tried. I reached out to my family. I'm like, hey, I need help.
You know, I'm not doing well. And they said, you've been here before. You can figure it out.
You know, like you've done it once, you can do it again. I'm like, you guys don't, you're not listening. Things aren't good. I don't know what to do. And I just didn't have really the support I needed at that time. And I didn't know, I didn't, have the tools to reach out anywhere. And that's what started, that's what kicked off the spiral to homelessness. Right there.
John Marshall | 22:55
It's 2016.
Michelle Barnes | 22:57
Yeah, 2016. I ended up, December of 2016, I moved up to Portland with my brother...
And then I ended up I had a friend, That's when Mo and I got together shortly, right around that time, right after Christmas. Him and I got together after my husband and I split.
John Marshall | 23:16
Mo was your partner that you had when I met.
Michelle Barnes | 23:18
You. Yes. And he was in Portland at the time.
So I went, or in Gresham technically. So I went from my brother's house in Tigard over to Gresham most of the time in Gresham. We were trying to figure things out. I ended up finding out that I got approved for housing. And So that was like six months later. And so I moved into an apartment back in Salem. May or June of 2017? But by that point, my drug addiction had disappeared. Taken hold and I was using meth every day. And I, at first I was just smoking it and then I started shooting it and it just, spiraled and then every once in a while we'd like we'd do heroin again but that wasn't I didn't want to get strung out on heroin. I knew I don't, didn't want that and I knew what the withdrawals would be and stuff so we steered clear of that basically But the meth had already taken hold. And so I had my apartment until... September 15th of 2017 when I had to move out. And I lost my housing because my ex-husband died. Was mad that I didn't want to be with him. And he, him and his new girlfriend called and told housing that I had people living with me. When I didn't, it was just me and my daughter. My family was calling the cops on me, saying that I was leaving my kid home alone when She was 10 years old.
You know, you can go to the store and grab a few things and come right home. That's nothing illegal about it. And so, like, it was... It just became... Harassing. One time I went on a 10-day... Trip to the coast to go see a friend. And next thing I know, I come back home and I have like four noise complaints attached to my door when I was even there. And so it was like, what do? I was being harassed and That's when I started living in my car at that point with my two cats.
John Marshall | 25:30
And where were your son and daughter at that.
Michelle Barnes | 25:32
Point? My son and daughter, because I knew I was losing my apartment, my son went to go live with his He was mad at me because I still don't know why he got mad at me, but And him and I had a falling out, so he went to go live with his dad's mom in June. Of 2017. My daughter went to, when I found out I for sure was losing my housing and I wasn't going to have a place to live, I sent her to go live with my sister. The only legal thing that was in place was for my son. I signed guardianship over to his grandma because she had benefits and there's certain things that she could do for him that I couldn't. Sure. But my sister only, I gave her power of attorney to help with school and stuff. And the next thing I know, DHS is involved telling me that I can't see my daughter or but there was never a court case.
Like, and so I never understood that. I never got to go to court. I never got the chance to get, anything resolved with that. It was just like, my sister said she had custody when she didn't. And So I don't know how that, how it all played out, why it played out that way. And I still don't know how it played out that way. But my daughter is back in my life now at this point.
So I don't know. She's 18, so I don't... We just kind of...
Like, we don't care anymore.- It is what it is, but...
Like that part will always stick with me because I had them their whole life. My daughter was 11 years old when she went to go, Like, ultimately, after my sister took her and was pulling this, I'm not going to let you see her, even though there was no legal process. Paperwork to prevent me from seeing her. Her dad came into town and I said, take her. Please take her and we had an agreement that i would see her be able to talk to her and so he took her to utah And that's when he filed for custody of her. And, Because we had a verbal agreement and, I didn't think he would be shysty to change everything up. And he did. And so it nixed me out of my daughter's life. And so I haven't now it's been nine years since I haven't talked to my son. And My daughter, like I said, we've been talking for the last year or so. A little over a year now.
Yeah, It was...
John Marshall | 27:57
Good.
Michelle Barnes | 28:01
Heartbreaking. Like, I didn't know what to do when I didn't have them.
Like I... I lost my mind.
Like... I didn't, I just started getting into trouble. Getting more and more into drugs because that was the only thing that was numbing the pain I'd In 2018, I tried to commit suicide...
Well, I did it in 2017. I tried to commit suicide as well. I used my mental health medications. And I ended up on life support in 2017, but in 2018, when I tried again, that's like four months later. I... Doubled. The amount of medication I took that time thinking, okay, I almost died this one.
So if I take double of what I took the first time, it should do the trick. I put myself into a coma... The doctors didn't expect me to wake up. And, I started waking up, but I couldn't move. I couldn't even notify anybody I was awake. And At one point, I remember I had this dream about my dad.
Like, I felt like I was right there with him. And he'd been dead almost three years at this point. About three years at this point, a little over three years, four and a half, almost four years, And he told me, suck it up, buttercup. You got to go back. Life continues.
You know, you'll die when it's time. Right now is not time.
So that was last time I had tried suicide. So it was... Losing my kids was... Made me not want to live.
Like... I didn't feel like I had a purpose at that point.
And then I was just angry. Like for years after that.
So that... I.
John Marshall | 29:59
So this is... Two to three years before I met you.
Yeah. Which means... In the meaning making that I'm doing in my own brain right now that At the very least, there's two to three years of intense sorrow and pain.- And depression and anger. While you're now living in your vehicle and probably living outside of your vehicle or, at some points.
Michelle Barnes | 30:31
Yep.
John Marshall | 30:32
And then there's, you know, four or five years that I know you of more to the story.- But I really want to know... From 2017 to 2020, before I met you. Okay.
Like, Is that dream with your dad? The Thing. That kept you going? How do you survive... All of that. What do you hang on to for any sense of hope and resiliency in the midst of all that?
Michelle Barnes | 31:06
Well, at the time when I first got out of the hospital in November, like, after that dream that I had about my dad, like, I realized that suicide's not going to ever be in my life. Like, I'm not going to... It's not going to be my path. No matter what I do, unless it's time for me to go, it's not going to work.
So I just gave up on that, which I'm happy I did. I haven't tried that since then.
John Marshall | 31:31
I'm really happy for that too.
Michelle Barnes | 31:32
Michelle. Thanks. I'm really glad that I didn't die and even though I went through a whole bunch of stuff after that, I'm happy I'm where I'm at today. I'm happy... Life's not perfect but I'm not Dead.
You know, so... " I still have a chance to make a good life.
From 2017 to 2020, I ended up losing my first car. My grandma had it repossessed, which I don't blame her, right before she died.
And then after she died, I bought her van. From my last tax return I got that I had filed with my kids because I had them through the year of 2017.
So I filed and We use that money to get a car. I bought her a van and fixed it up. And so I was living out of the van.
And then I ended up getting a possession charge, my first possession charge. We were thinking it was a felony, but we didn't realize that statutes changed and turned into misdemeanor. And that was like 2018. And Mo and I both did. In 2020, 19 so I had the van about a year just under a year and my PO I went and saw her for my visit with her and then she wanted me to come back the next day to meet with a mentor and like, I don't know if I'll be able to make it.
Like, I don't, I'm not working. I have no money. I don't have gas.
Like, I don't know, but on the way back from Dallas to Salem, I had a blowout on our trailer that we had. So we were stuck on the side of the road. And I called and told my PO, hey, I can't make it out. I don't know what to do. She puts a warrant out for my arrest and she lies saying I missed my PO meeting with her when it wasn't that. And so when I got arrested a week later, they impounded my car. And I spent 10 days in jail. My cats ended up going to jail. A friend's house for about a month so I could and so when I got Out of jail, I got out of jail with nothing. I went and stayed with a friend because by that point, Mo had went to jail. And so the friends that had my cat, I went to their house for about three weeks.
And then Mo got out of jail. We met up and ended up I was still clean at that point after I got out of jail. And... But I'm like, well, they wanted to make sure I didn't have my car to live in anymore, so let's just go post up in Dallas. Let's go to the PO's office. Let's make them do something for us.
So we took the cats and sat in the PO's office for a day and they kicked us out saying, you guys can't be here. Well, then help us out. Help us with the place. Help us get on our feet. We're here. Help us. And they were like, well, we're not going to help you. And I sent an email asking for housing. And they're like, we're not going to help you with housing because of your companion animals. And that was the response back in the email. I'm like, all right.
So we went to my counseling office where I was doing drug and alcohol and mental health counseling. That was court ordered. And I'm like, posted up in their office. We were there for three days. And we went to this warming center at night.
So my counselor, he's like, you guys can't live here. I said, well, then help us. You guys wanted me to lose everything.
So I can comply with what you want. I'm here. Help me. Do something. This is, You know, what are you going to do? Just put me back out on the street?
So I ended up in Yamhill County at that point. That was 2018, 2019. And... No, 2019. Beginning of 2019. Till August. And, that's when we I wrote a letter to the judge to explain what was going on with my PO case and I He felt that what happened was unfair, so he let me off probation early. I didn't have to pay any of the court fines, but at that point, all the help ends. Which I couldn't get anyways. That I was trying to get.
John Marshall | 36:07
So at least you're outside the mechanics of the system.
Michelle Barnes | 36:10
Exactly. So we were like, all right, so.
And then same thing happens with Moe. They put a warrant out for his arrest because, again, they wanted us to move back to Dallas, where were we going to live in Dallas? We weren't from Dallas. We were from Marion County to begin with. And so technically, my attorney said they should have transferred us to Marion County for supervision, not left us out in Polk County.
So it was Polk County's complete mess up to begin with. And...
So the same clause that got me off probation early And his defense attorney used that and got him off probation. So now we were completely outside of the scope of what we had to do. But while we were in Yamhill County, we started, it just got hard to keep moving from the shelter and then bring the cats with us everywhere we were going.
Yeah. It just got hard.
So we started camping by the YCAP building. And we, in August, mid-August, were like, let's go back to Salem.
So we packed up our cats. We got bikes, got trailers, had a cage, put the cats in the cage on a trailer. And we rode from, on bike, from McMinnville to Salem. And it took, it should have only taken a few hours, but, you know, we were... Trying we stopped and picked up bottles and cans and like we were just screwing around basically and it took about 10 hours to come back but it was a good trip Then we started camping. A couple weeks after that, it was like beginning of September, he started camping off of Fisher. And I... That's right before...
So this is September of 2019. Until January 8th of 2020. In that time, I was being raped by a sex trafficker. And he told me that if I... Said some if I told him no he would kill my Boyfriend, Kilmo. And If I went to the cops, he would kill me, my kids. Mo. Basically my whole family. And he then proceeded to show me pictures of my kids. And so I cut ties. I went to child support. Closed both my child support cases that I had open, with their fathers. So cut ties and I got rid of my phone. Basically anything that tied me to my kids, I let go, like, because I was trying to protect them at that point. I quit talking to my family. I quit contacting them. Nobody knew where I was at that point. And... New Year's Eve, Mo got really sick because we didn't know it at the time, but the people started poisoning him. They poisoned our food and stuff like that. And, we didn't realize it until we were both really sick.
And then... By January 7th, we were sleeping from being sick in our tent that we had. And... We got set on fire while we slept. And woke up, the cats were in a cage, And where the fire started, it was in the corner right next to the cat cage. And so the tent filled up with smoke. I'm pulling the cats away from the fire to protect them, trying to get them out of the tent. It started to rain just enough to put the fire out, and we just... Sat there like But now, like, everything just went up in smoke. And... And so we came up with this plan the next morning, just we're grabbing the cats and we're leaving. Grabbing the cats and the bike. We left everything there except for one bike trailer and the cats. And we walked away from that at six o'clock in the morning before anybody woke up. I didn't know where we went and that's when we ended up at those, I think it's called Solid Rock Church on Ward Drive.
John Marshall | 40:19
I think that's.
Michelle Barnes | 40:20
Right. Yeah. And that's... The gentleman, we were there for a few hours.
Like, we were so sick. We couldn't even, we could hardly move. And... An employee showed up there and he goes, what's going on? And so we told him what we had just went through. And he's like, well, come inside, get cleaned up. I'll take you to Church of the Park.
So that's where... When you guys had the warming center out there, that's when we first started staying there was about January 8th. And, So that's where we found solace for the first time.
Like we were actually You guys gave us a spot where We could lay down. And you guys were calling medics for us almost every other night, like either to send me to the hospital or mode of the hospital, like, so we get through this illness that we had. We were sick for like three months through that. That first month. Initial meeting with you guys. But...
Yeah, so... That's kind of that.
So that was 2020. And then... Isn't that right around when COVID hit too? March of 2020.
Yeah. So we were, so January to March, we were at this shelter almost every night with you guys. And I remember talking with someone and they're like, You guys... We're so happy we're here for you guys to help you through this. You guys would be so screwed without us. I'm like, yeah, we would. I was one of the volunteers, so I don't even remember who it was I was talking to. I'm like, yeah, but then the very next day they're like, that's when you guys got noticed that you were shutting down.
So I think that they had known about the, that what something was going to happen and kind of giving us a warning that, Hey, you guys need to be looking for something else basically, but without really telling us. Yeah.
So it made sense the next day when that, The shutdown came. But at that point, like, You guys were still there for us. You guys still... Provided meals as much as he could. You guys gave us a place to charge our phones or, you know, that's when you guys got, I think arches out to do the housing assessments too.
Yeah. And that's how I got... But with COVID, it wasn't very rapid.
John Marshall | 42:56
You don't The whole world kind of shut down.
Michelle Barnes | 42:57
Say. Yeah.
So it was kind of a trying situation. We were happy. We thought for sure. We finally had an answer. We were going to get housed.
You know, so we were really excited. We started working with Salem Housing Authority.
Yeah. And... Unfortunately, we ended up at the park. Cascades Gateway Park. Cascades Gateway Park, yeah, at the height of COVID. And that was... And ironically enough, nothing... Too traumatic happened to me out there. By that point, I was pretty irritated with everything and became pretty violent as it was.
So I protected myself a lot more. And I stood up like if you know, somebody tried to hurt me, I usually just Defend myself? As much as I could. And I turned into something I didn't really want to be, but I had to be out there. But I knew that park was close to you guys, so... You guys served us dinner at night. You guys were there when my cat attacked me. You guys called 911 because I went into shock and made sure I got to the hospital.
Like you guys, like church of the park was amazing. Like absolutely amazing through that whole situation.
John Marshall | 44:18
As you were sharing some of... The most traumatic bits of that story. I was replaying in my mind moments that I've sat with people who are curious about the work that I do. And some of their curiosity just comes from the stories that they carry in their own brains about who it is that lives outside and what type of people live outside.
And then part of my work is to try to dispel the myth that all homeless people or one sort of way or another. But I don't want to miss the fact that you experienced some of the worst. And so... I wonder how you start to tell a different story about what it means to experience homelessness in the world. As someone who's really actually lived the worst of the worst.
Michelle Barnes | 45:16
You know, like, Before I was... I had this experience with homelessness. I'm like, just get a job.
You know, you're making the choice to be out here. But after... I went through what I went through. I didn't necessarily make the choice to lose my apartment and for my, for other people to play their part in my story, you know, but, There are choices that if I didn't make, it wouldn't have happened, possibly. Who knows? You never know. However, Once you're in it, Like I had a job on and off.
Like it didn't solve anything. Getting a simple, getting a job. Okay.
Yeah. Now I have a job. I'm not making enough money to Get a place.
You know, and at that point, the wait lists are so long anyways, like. It's one vicious cycle after another.
Some of the agencies that say, " we're here to help," What can they really do besides... Offer all these assessments but then what?
Like, nothing really happens. Like, you know, they, It's kind of like... The Yeah.
John Marshall | 46:31
Need is bigger than what they can...
Michelle Barnes | 46:33
Solve. Yeah. And so.
Well, we can solve. Yeah.
And then like. Okay, so being homeless, if I wasn't on drugs out there, I don't think I would have made it.
Honestly.
John Marshall | 46:46
As in like the drugs actually helped you survive?
Michelle Barnes | 46:49
Well, it made, more made it numb. I mean, like being raped and...
Like going hungry and going like not being able to shower like just the dehumanization of the whole experience..
John Marshall | 47:04
Like drugs for a life jacket.
Michelle Barnes | 47:06
Yeah, it was the only coping mechanism I had. And then during COVID is when They started putting fentanyl into everything.
So not only did I have meth addiction, but by the time I actually got housed... I had a full-fledged fentanyl addiction. And It sounds like.
John Marshall | 47:25
Not even by choice.
Michelle Barnes | 47:28
Initially, no. Right.
You know, it was in the meth. And then we were getting sick if we didn't do drugs for a few days. And we're like, what is going on? And we take a hit and like, there's something in it. That's when Mo and I started piecing together. There was something... In the drugs. And... Then COVID, I got hit with COVID for, I think, the fourth time. In 2022. Two? 20, no, 2021, 24, maybe 2022. And That's when... We had an RV at that point and...
Some people we knew would come, hey, can I come in and smoke? Because it was warm. I'm like, sure, come in. I'm like, I'm sick. I'm taking a hit. They're like, okay. And so, cause it like in my head, I'm like, okay, I'd take a little bit of, like take a hit off the foil, you know, just don't do it every day.
Well, 10 days went by. I didn't even realize it cause I was sick. Sick with COVID and then getting high on fentanyl. And it just... Unintentionally happen like I played Russian roulette too much. With that. Unfortunately.
John Marshall | 48:39
I'm wondering if you can... Share a little bit more of your own lived wisdom around the relationship between Drugs, trauma, and homelessness. Because one of the questions I get asked often is, What comes first? Is it homelessness that leads to drug use or is it drug use that leads to homelessness? And the response that I've had to kind of manufacture in response to that question is, I think it's a little bit like asking what comes first, the chicken or the egg.
Michelle Barnes | 49:06
For me, for my story, it was my mental health. That played the part first. The depression, the isolation, the loss of job, the grief of losing my dad. My uncle had cancer. My grandma died three months after my uncle.
And then my grandpa died a year later. There was just a lot of, you know... Loss and grief and depression and anxiety and change. That happened.
And then I relapsed. And then that relapse. Brought everything else.
So, It relationship.
John Marshall | 49:47
Doesn't sound like there's a linear line that you can even make about the.
Michelle Barnes | 49:51
No, it's different for everyone. You know, some like I met plenty of people who chose to be outside because they didn't want to the responsibility of a place to live.
So there's that aspect, too, of this. Sure. But there's people with mental health issues that are going unaddressed. That have no place safe to go, that end up on drugs because that's the only thing left to do, really. Once you're on the street, if you're not awake to try and protect yourself, then you're going to, you're vulnerable.
Yeah, absolutely. People come into your camp and like, especially if you're a female out there, if they find out you're alone, you're going to get raped. You're going to be a target. Even if you're not alone. I still got targeted.
And then at that point, You know, you're on the street. If you call the cops, you're going to get attacked even more.
So there was really no Yeah.
John Marshall | 50:45
As retaliation for trying to create safety for yourself.
Michelle Barnes | 50:48
Absolutely. Yeah, because You know, I went to detox a few times, but where did they put me after detox? Right back out on the street with nothing. Okay, so even after the pavilion project, because I worked for you guys during the pavilion project, that's...
And then after that, we had the first DMV site. And I stayed there. I went to detox when we first opened that up. Because the people were, you know, because, There was really, at the time with the shelter being new, you guys didn't really have a spot or people who were trying to be clean at the time because there was only place to sit outside was around the pot smoking or cigarettes or whatever. But nowadays, with the way the shelters run now, you guys have those supports in place.
Like there's separate places for people who want to smoke. There's places for people who don't.
So basically, Thank you. It's just, it just takes time.
You know, so unfortunately, like, I wish there was a linear answer to that. Like, But without stable housing. There's no chance. Absolutely none.
John Marshall | 52:03
As of today. How many years are you sober now?
Michelle Barnes | 52:08
I have about. A little over two years clean. In December of 2023, I... Mo and I had already broke up at that point, And I got into another really... Another relationship that was very abusive. Mo and I, like Mo and I had our problems, but we weren't as, we didn't, We weren't exactly... We were more verbally mean to each other than physically most of the time.
Like, yeah, we got physical every once in a while, but it was mostly... Not either one of our followers because we were both antagonizing that. I'm not the victim of that. We're both equally guilty.
John Marshall | 52:51
Mutual and healthy to.
Michelle Barnes | 52:53
Yeah. And, but with the, the relationship I had after him, this guy, he, on Christmas, he choked me out and, like, was It was a bad situation, so... And I had got out of detox at that point because I had overdosed December 16th of 2023 on fentanyl. And I was Narcan three times. And I wanted to end it after that, like after the whole Christmas fiasco with him. I started back into fentanyl right away. And I called my mentor and I said, look, This was December 29th. I said, either take me to my appointment. At Cedar Hills Hospital on the 30th. That 11 o'clock or I'm going to commit suicide. I'm going to try it again. And I have the means to do it this time. And I will make sure it works. And I said, I'm not trying to threaten you. I'm not trying to do anything other than I'm telling you I need help. And I don't want to live anymore. And so she got the approval from her boss to take me to Cedar Hills Hospital. And I was there for a week. I got stabilized mentally and I entered in on December 30th. I can't, but because I was high that day, I count my first day clean as New Year's Eve of 2023. And I have been clean ever since. I have been in my apartment for two years. I've been single for two years. I stayed in drug and alcohol counseling and mental health counseling for about nine months after I got clean. I started working as November of 2024 at a gas station.
And then I saw that Church of the Park had openings and I reapplied and I started working with you guys February 18th of 2025. And I'm coming up on a year there.
Yeah. So... My life's not perfect by any means, but... In the timeframe of me being clean, I've been able to have open communication with my son's grandma. And so she relays messages to him so he knows what's going on with me. And he's, it sounds like he's coming around, but he's going to take time. My daughter and I have rekindled our relationship. I went to Utah and visited her last June and watched her walk on her graduation. That's so cool. It was wonderful. Amazing. I'm so proud of that kid. I'm proud of both my kids. Both my kids graduated. Through everything. Both my kids have graduated high school. They're both figuring it out as adults now. And They're terrific. I'm really proud of both of them. They've come a long ways. They've overcome a lot in their life.
You know, It may not have been perfect, but at least my kids are graduating. You know what I mean?
Like that's a bonus. It makes me feel good. At least now I didn't screw him up that bad. But you know, I, Unfortunately, a few weeks ago, I totaled my car, but... And one of my friends, my friend Leslie, she's like, you know, you've had you've come so far and have a setback. I'm like, I'm alive.
Like, who cares? It's just a car. I'll figure it out. I still have my job. I have my health. I'm not hurt.
Like, I've been through worse. And so like, I have an outlook now like, Nothing I go through today will ever be as bad as what I came out of. And I don't have to go back to those days. And the one thing that I can do every day to ensure that is never... Making a choice to go get high again. Making sure my choices are every minute and every second of every day is to never seek out another drug. And I have supports in place. I go to NA meetings now. I reach out to friends that I know can support me. And it's not people that I've supported in the past. It's people that are from the program. That understand it.
John Marshall | 57:17
There's something about this chapter of sobriety that sounds and feels different than the previous chapters. I have my guesses at what might be different. I'm curious if you If you've been able to notice or say that to yourself, like this is different. And why.
Michelle Barnes | 57:35
Because I want it. Because I didn't put my kids... I didn't use my kids as the excuse to get sober. I didn't use my family's guilt as an excuse to get sober. I did this for me. I'm I chose me.
John Marshall | 57:52
That was my first guess because earlier in the conversation... You specifically said some line and I forget the exact words but like I was doing... Things for other people. I was, I had to be a mom. I had to play a mom to be a mom. Yep. But I didn't get to love myself in the midst of that. Exactly. That was the theme of what I heard you say. And so my curiosity about this chapter, Sobriety, is I wonder how much of this is about you discovering value and worth inside yourself. That is independent on other people. And... You have a system, a network of support that you haven't had previously. And that those two things together are... Meshing into this Perfect storm of health.
Michelle Barnes | 58:44
Yes. Yeah. Yep. Without... Me, like I've made the conscious decision to stay out of relationships with unless they're just straight friendships. I don't even really talk to guys as anything other than hi, how are you?
Like, I don't, Like I'm, completely 100% single. I don't have any relationships with anybody that would interfere with my sobriety at all.
Like the next relationship I get into, if I ever do get into a relationship, it's going to be based on recovery and mutual respect for each other and mutual desires like in companionship more than a sexual or physical relationship in any way like I can't. See myself going back to what I just left. And if that means I'm single the rest of my life, then so be it. At least I'll be happy.
You know, because when I go home at night, the only thing that I have to worry about is my cat. She is enough. Trust that. I don't want to sound like a crazy cat lady, but if... If she's the only crazy thing in my life that I have to contend with and not have to worry about being abused ever again. I'd rather stay with an animal. In my life.
So, you know, like, putting yourself first. People call it selfish, people call it whatever, but you've got to have self-care without self-care there's going to be problems. And that's one thing I wish I would have learned at a younger age was how to love myself, how to accept myself and to know that I was enough. Without needing that outside... Acknowledgement or Well, when I...
John Marshall | 01:00:45
How did I'm so curious how you came to discover Your self-worth.
Michelle Barnes | 01:00:52
Okay, so... When I got clean, I made the choice to step back from all relationships. And so I've never been alone in my life. Never in my entire life have I ever lived by myself. It's either me and my kids, me and my husband and kids, me and my grandparents, some sort of family dynamic.
So... It was kind of traumatic having my own apartment with no kids, no husband, no boyfriend. And it was quiet. For the first time.
Like, I... Got the chance to get out of my comfort zone. Of everything I knew and be uncomfortable alone. To find my worth.
You know, without that experience of being alone, I don't think I would be where I'm at today. And...
You know, some, I will be known. It's not that bad.
You know, because I'm not necessarily alone. I have my network of people and If I need something, I know what to do. Do I get lonely sometimes?
Yeah. Yeah, but I'd rather be lonely than being on drugs. Or being abused or being used.
Yeah. So I... I'm okay with that.
John Marshall | 01:02:09
I'm so glad for Coming up on the end of our time, Before we wrap up, I'd really want you to offer some I want to invite you to offer two different messages.
Michelle Barnes | 01:02:10
That. Thanks.
John Marshall | 01:02:23
One is to the people in the world who look at the reality of homelessness and go.
Michelle Barnes | 01:02:32
Like.
John Marshall | 01:02:36
Well. What's... One message to... Individuals who haven't experienced homelessness to help. Them understand homelessness better and just the reality of it. Start there. Okay. How do you help people make sense of seeing other people live outside.
Michelle Barnes | 01:02:56
You know... I don't... I wish there was an answer to that.
Like, I didn't understand it until I went through it. It's not a choice that everybody makes. On their own.
You know, not everybody wants to be in that position. A simple job just doesn't fix anything. Being homeless, you know, so like, Peace. I guess just try and find grace for the people, for things you don't understand. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that... You can Judge it.
You know, just, you know, like, and I'm glad you don't understand it. You know, I wish. I didn't have firsthand knowledge of it, but I do, and I'm grateful for it. And I learned a lot. But you know, Don't be so quick to judge what you don't know.
You know, nobody wants to be judged in life. You know, just because you live in a house, does that really mean you have a perfect life?
John Marshall | 01:04:01
Yeah, that's good. And then the second message that I want you to give is to individuals who are still living outside and telling themselves a story that there isn't a better life available to them. What's a word of encouragement? To.
Michelle Barnes | 01:04:15
That. Don't give up. There's always a way. Slow motion is better than no motion.
So baby steps, one foot in front of the other, a little bit at a time, something will give. You can't give up. You've got to find... Find some sort of hope every day that situational change and keep asking for help, keep reaching out, keep, showing up for yourself. When nobody else will.
You know, like that's, the only thing that got me through like Just... Trying to find the next positive thing, I guess.
John Marshall | 01:04:59
I like that a lot. Earlier in the conversation, you mentioned how you and your siblings were violent towards each other because you were imitating the model that was given to you by your parents. And There's a... Kind of foundational premise to the work that we do at Church of the Park that all of human behavior is just imitation of other people that It's the only way we learn how to be ourselves is by watching other people be themselves and then we take on the things that help us navigate the world. And as we close, I... And reflecting on the way that you expressed pride about your kids and the fact that they overcame a lot. And I can't, help but assume, I don't know your kids, but I can't help but assume that some of what they got And that resilience is because of you. I hope so. I hope so, too. And even if it's not the case, You need to know. How proud I am of you.
Michelle Barnes | 01:06:04
You. Thank Yeah.
John Marshall | 01:06:06
You overcame... A lot.
Michelle Barnes | 01:06:12
I'm glad to be here.
John Marshall | 01:06:14
I'm glad you're here too. And I'm really hopeful. That your life now becomes model. For other human beings, your kids degree they're willing.
Michelle Barnes | 01:06:23
Included. Thank you. To whatever.
John Marshall | 01:06:27
To be in relationship with you. Like that is healing. That is redemption. That is beauty. That is grace. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think of the humans that I still know who live outside and...
Michelle Barnes | 01:06:42
Yeah. It's heartbreaking. I'd sometimes driving around town or being around town, like before my car got whole, I drove by where I used to hang out in Northeast Salem. And I saw a few people I knew and it broke my heart. It's so sad seeing him like ghosts, like walking dead.
John Marshall | 01:07:05
Totally. But I remember when you were The Walking Dead.
Yeah. And no, you're not.
Michelle Barnes | 01:07:10
Yeah. Change can happen. You just got to not give up. You gotta want it. Gotta do the work.
John Marshall | 01:07:18
Well, thank you for taking a chance on yourself. Thank you for doing the work. I'm so glad and proud to know you...
Yeah. The way we end every episode is with 10 like kind of silly rapid fire questions. Okay. Not all of them are silly, but some of them are silly.
Michelle Barnes | 01:07:42
What you got?
John Marshall | 01:07:45
So. Michelle. 10 rapid fire questions for you. Number one, what is the best dessert?
Michelle Barnes | 01:07:53
Man, I had gastric bypass, so I don't get to eat dessert anymore. But like my favorite was Dutch apple pies.
Like I love them when they're hot, fresh from the oven. I can't eat them anymore, but that's all right.
Yeah.
John Marshall | 01:08:05
That sounds so good. Of things that you could eat still. If you could go pick something off the shelf and know that you could eat it.
Michelle Barnes | 01:08:15
Well, I have homemade cheesecake that I made in my freezer that I kind of... It's sugar-free. Okay.
John Marshall | 01:08:22
All right. A genie grants you one wish. What do you wish for?
Michelle Barnes | 01:08:26
.. Permanent stability for not only me but my family and like everyone around me like even the people on the street, you know, that I'm, that were a family when I was going through it.
John Marshall | 01:08:43
Would you rather go back in time and meet your ancestors or travel to the future and meet your descendants?
Michelle Barnes | 01:08:49
I would want to see my descendants. Why? Because I want to see what my legacy brings.
You know, I know where I came from. I want to see where... I end up Cats.
John Marshall | 01:09:04
I think I know the answer to this one. Cats or dogs?
Michelle Barnes | 01:09:08
They don't bark at the door when somebody knocks.
John Marshall | 01:09:12
Question five, apples or oranges?
Michelle Barnes | 01:09:15
Oranges.
John Marshall | 01:09:17
What is your favorite smell?
Michelle Barnes | 01:09:18
French vanilla candles.
John Marshall | 01:09:21
What is one thing you would add to Salem to make it better?
Michelle Barnes | 01:09:25
Definitely more sheltering options, more resources for the people who need it.
John Marshall | 01:09:35
What piece of advice has helped you the most?
Michelle Barnes | 01:09:38
Don't give up. Things will change. You just got to keep moving.
John Marshall | 01:09:43
What is your favorite thing about yourself?
Michelle Barnes | 01:09:46
I don't quit. I persevere. I fight for what I need.
John Marshall | 01:09:54
And finally, what is your biggest hope for your future?
Michelle Barnes | 01:09:59
Hope for my future is that I get both my kids back in my life and whatever happens after that, it'll be.
John Marshall | 01:10:08
I hope for that too. Thanks again for sharing your story as courageously and vulnerably as you have. It means a lot to.
Michelle Barnes | 01:10:15
Me. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
John Marshall | 01:10:22
Hey again everyone. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Michelle. She's a remarkable human and I'm so thankful for her generosity of spirit and time to tell her story. It was a gift to receive her vulnerability. Her honesty, the raw truth of her lived reality, to see her humanity and even be returned to mind through the course of our time together. At the start of the episode, I reflected how I know Michelle and Mo as people who are very willing to ask for help from the world around them. I wonder if you noticed that pattern in Michelle's own retelling of her story. In my experience over the last six years of Church of the Park, It has not been uncommon to receive commentary from someone who looks at our neighbors living outside and sees a population of humans who are undeserving of help from the rest of us. People who just need to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. People whose social location is a consequence of their own failures. And therefore a condition that is only theirs to remedy. Thinking about the bootstrap image though, it originated in the 1800s as a metaphor for an impossible or absurd task. The whole point is that none of us can pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. We actually need help from others for that task. When I have these conversations with folks, and this happened too as I was sitting across the table listening to Michelle, I'm reminded of Bartimaeus, the blind beggar. In Mark's and Luke's gospels. Sitting on the side of the road shouting, Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me. Artemis is shushed by the crowd. He isn't worth their time. He shouts louder. And Jesus stops. And pays attention and attends to him. And heals him. Michelle, like so many of our neighbors living outside, is a modern-day Bartimaeus to me. Crying for help in office lobbies, and day centers and to her partners And so is the man standing on the corner with a sign that most of us drive past. And when we avoid the awkward eye contact during those 30 seconds sitting in our cars at the stoplight, I wonder if we can see these humans the way Jesus does. I wonder if they can become worth our time. Worth a detour in our route. Worth our curiosity to know them more fully. The healing we all long for may not happen today. The wisdom of Michelle's story is that it can absolutely happen in the future. It just requires the courage of persistence. Not only from those who are asking for the help, but from those who have some help to give. As this episode closes, I invite you to reflect on your own perception of our neighbors living in parks and sidewalks and under trees and behind bushes. Do you see them as fully human? Do you believe their story is worth your attention? May Michelle's story be inspiration to all of us to think of our neighbors charitably and generously. May we find courage to ask for help and lend help. And may we discover the miracle of healing on the other side. Of our vulnerability.
Chris Hahn | 01:13:28
Hi, Chris again with Church of the Park. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of The Humanity of Homelessness. We hope what you heard serves as a testimony that there's always good news to celebrate in hard places and that all of our neighbors are worth our time and attention. Since 2007, we've created a community with our neighbors living outside. Today, we get to offer collaborative navigation, emergency sheltering, workforce development and supported housing for our neighbors in need. If you'd like to remain in contact with us at Church of the Park, please visit our website at churchofthepark.org. There, you can find opportunities to volunteer Subscribe to our newsletter and weekly liturgy reflections and stay in the know about our current and future projects. We have an online portal for financial giving. If you have questions for us or want to connect for a cup of coffee, we have lots of team members who would love to pay for your cup. Email us at info at churchofthepark.org. Again, that's info, I-N-F-O, at churchofthepark.org. You can find this podcast wherever your favorite podcasts are found. And it's helpful to us if you subscribe and share episodes that inspire you. Thanks to everyone for tuning in and joining us as we celebrate good news in the hardest, most unexpected places.