Another Zelda Podcast

David meets up with Dan McCoy at his house in St. Louis to answer a few more questions Dan has acquired as he enters a deeper Zelda fandom.
HOST: David Geisler CAST: Dan McCoy
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WRITTEN BY DAN MCCOY | DIRECTED BY DAVID GEISLER | PRODUCED BY DAVID GEISLER AND CELESTE ROBERTS | EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: DAVID GEISLER | EDITOR: DAVID GEISLER | SOUND DESIGNER: DAVID GEISLER

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COPYRIGHT 2023 SIXFIVE MEDIA, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

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COPYRIGHT 2025 SIXFIVE MEDIA, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Creators and Guests

Host
David Geisler

What is Another Zelda Podcast?

It’s a secret to everybody. | Another Zelda Podcast is a show wherein we talk about all things regarding The Legend of Zelda series!

David Geisler:

Hello, and welcome to another Zelda podcast. I'm your host today, David Geisler, and I'm here with cast member Dan McCoy. Dan, how are you?

Dan McCoy:

Hey, everyone. It's good to be back.

David Geisler:

It feels like home. Indeed. Well, it is home for you this year.

Dan McCoy:

Like, Literally, I'm in my home right now. This is pretty cool.

David Geisler:

That's true. That's true. We this is our our third episode that we've recorded here at your place, and it's been a ton of fun. I've been looking forward to this episode. I have little bit of feedback,

Dan McCoy:

but I

David Geisler:

wanna tell everybody what we're doing. Please and

Dan McCoy:

thank you.

David Geisler:

We when we were thinking about the kind of episodes to do with you, you definitely had told me you wanna do a deep dive one, you were kinda curious about Yiga. That was a ton of fun. Yep. I loved that. The the crossover, the season open so so actually, yeah, our listeners kinda know this already, but we had a kind of a a co show crossover event.

Dan McCoy:

A co show cross show.

David Geisler:

It's the

Dan McCoy:

co it's the co show cross show. That's what we're gonna call it. From now on, that's it. It's it's cemented in.

David Geisler:

Well, I was I was a guest on fan fiction for your first episode back into your most current season. Yep. And then we had you and Dan, as our listeners probably already heard. We had you and Matt, sorry, on our season Yeah. For this season.

Dan McCoy:

We're all just hanging out now just recording what we talk about. Ironically, none of us

David Geisler:

are in the same cities in the country Nope. But we're all just hanging out recording. There's a lot of bouncing around the nation right now, but it's all good. Dan's getting comfy.

Dan McCoy:

I am. I am. I got a, like, a wheelie chair, so I'm trying to be as

David Geisler:

quiet as possible.

Dan McCoy:

It's not it's not a super squeaker.

David Geisler:

I think we'll be okay.

Dan McCoy:

Well, that that's the other chair. That's right. But we'll be okay. Brinker Brink.

David Geisler:

What are we doing for this episode?

Dan McCoy:

So actually the very first time I was ever on another Zelda podcast. Yep. Episode one, season three. Think we've talked about like, you know, you know, we work together and you you I knew you had mentioned that you did this podcast in, like

David Geisler:

Oh, Dan. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm interrupting you, but season three episode one was, like, your second time on the show. You actually were, like, a a mega like, just a guest guest back in season two Yeah.

David Geisler:

And which is what you're talking about

Dan McCoy:

right now. Yeah. This is like a booking thing.

David Geisler:

I accidentally thought the commercials episode

Dan McCoy:

was No. The This is this is Yeah.

David Geisler:

Well well, also remind me what we did back then. I guess not just our listening audience.

Dan McCoy:

It's good to felt remember. I first one, I just point that out. But the first time I was on the show, like, I I don't know a lot about Zelda. I like video games, but Zelda's not my wheelhouse. It's not my forte.

Dan McCoy:

And I knew David knew just untold treasures of the Zelda lore and everything. And So I remember talking to him at work and I was like, I wonder if I just asked him enough questions. He'll like start thinking that like I could be on the show.

David Geisler:

I mean I thought you were a big Zelda fan.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah and so eventually like I was asking him so many questions like, hey, well what a, stop asking me so many questions We're at work. Yeah. And b, and b, get back to work. Then c, why don't you write these down, and this can be an episode. This can be 10 questions from somebody who doesn't know a lot about Zelda, who like, is trying to get into the franchise.

David Geisler:

I think we titled it much like this episode, 10 questions from a new Zelda fan.

Dan McCoy:

From a new Zelda fan. Because you did have a

David Geisler:

certain amount of excitement for Breath of the Wild when we spoke about it. I don't I think that was

Dan McCoy:

don't think I'd played it. I'd only had played Ocarina of Time. That's that's all I had.

David Geisler:

When we first got started, you hadn't played Breath of the Wild?

Dan McCoy:

I don't believe so.

David Geisler:

I think I remember you maybe I missed my movie, I think you had kinda like poked around on it a little bit or something. You oh, I think you owned it. But I don't know. Maybe I'm rewriting history or

Dan McCoy:

no. Maybe. No. I don't think so. Because like, yeah, I remember the gift you got me for Christmas was the DLC that came out after.

David Geisler:

Yes.

Dan McCoy:

And that was like, I had played right into it. Like I was finishing up. Oh. And then you got me the DLC. Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't like I had played it and then like sat it down for a year or anything like that. So I think it was fairly because when it first came

David Geisler:

out So you really were a new Zelda fan.

Dan McCoy:

Well, because when the game first came out, it didn't I don't wanna say the word appeal to me, but it's it's not my franchise. So I was just like, well, okay. That new Zelda game came out.

David Geisler:

You're like, this isn't Ghostbusters open world.

Dan McCoy:

First of all, when that happens, like, you will never see me again.

David Geisler:

I wonder. There's that online one right now that everybody can play. That's kinda like Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

But it's like a fur it's like a what? First person shooter Yeah.

David Geisler:

Or maybe third person. It's almost it's almost Left four Dead just

Dan McCoy:

as Ghostbusters. That's just it. Like, I just I think the Ghostbusters video game, the one with Dan Akron, it's perfect. Yeah. It's story driven.

Dan McCoy:

Mhmm. But you still get the great mechanics of like, you know, air fishing is essentially what you're doing.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

So anything else I'm already gonna be judgy because I, like, I've already had the perfect Ghostbusters game.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

And like, and I think I've said this before. I also don't like playing video games where other people rely on me or I rely on other people. Interesting. And so I know it's like to talk about Ghostbusters more. I know it's like a team game where it's like you and your friends can go and bust ghosts on.

Dan McCoy:

Nope. I need a story. I need to be alone. I need to be able to defeat the boss by myself and be self reliant.

David Geisler:

I probably asked you this three or four years ago, but I'm gonna ask you again. When you played Ocarina of Time way back in the day, was it like, okay. I have played a Zelda game good enough. Like, was that kind of the emotion that you came out? So you weren't like looking for looking for Wind Waker or Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword?

Dan McCoy:

When I played it, I I remember going like, oh, that was fun. I don't see what all the hoopla's about. Damn. How dare you? I well, I okay.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. But like but I I remember playing going like, oh, cool. And then like and then Majora's Mask was the next one that came out. Yeah. And they're like, hey, do wanna play that?

Dan McCoy:

I was like, nah, think I got

David Geisler:

Yeah. Cool.

Dan McCoy:

It just and like now, any new Zelda that comes out, like, I'm instantly attracted to it, you know.

David Geisler:

But Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

Now I know more. Now I'm invested. Now it's it's something more precious to me than just Yeah. That game that I played that one time.

David Geisler:

To be honest, us calling this 10 more questions from a new Zelda fan, I only put the word new in there so that it it's kind of like a a sequel to that other episode. But

Dan McCoy:

Not as new.

David Geisler:

You're not as new. Not as new. No. You actually do know But various amounts of lore

Dan McCoy:

I at this still have questions. Yeah. Because like, again, I haven't done a deep dive into the whole thing. So there are

David Geisler:

I love it.

Dan McCoy:

And I also did a little bit of deep dive, and I'm gonna ask you a couple questions just to make sure

David Geisler:

Can't wait. You're I can't wait. Up on both of To that point, actually, and we're gonna get into our listener feedback. To that point, when Kate and I first started another Zelda podcast back in 2017 Yep. I had played almost all the Zelda games.

David Geisler:

There was, like, maybe four out of the 23 or whatever it is, depending on how many how you count the remakes. I'd almost play like, you

Dan McCoy:

know what I mean?

David Geisler:

Like, some of them, it's like it almost is a new game. Yeah. You know what I mean? But, anyway, I almost lost my thought here. Oh oh, but, like, I I would say that Zelda was one of my favorite video game franchises.

David Geisler:

Okay. But I, in no way, could say that I was a Zelda mega fan. Oh, and And so now over the course of these past five years, I'm like I'm like, I have my I have a Zelda wallet. I'm wearing a Zelda sweatshirt. I have Zelda socks.

David Geisler:

Like, it's like, I'm I get excited. I only pick Link in Mario Kart. I get I get excited by Zelda stuff. I'm in. You know what I mean?

David Geisler:

And this show just kinda does that to you.

Dan McCoy:

But you know what's also so funny to to speak off that though, like, so you can clearly see I'm a huge Ghostbuster nerd. Yeah. Like, and I think I have way more knowledge than the average person, but there are still people out there that will run laps around me. Do you know what I mean? Like, the people that, like, can recite like, I can recite most of the movie.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. But, like, this like, people know there are some people that just that's what it's all about, you know. And, like, I I'm impressed. Like, you know, I I even take, like, I go hardest Ghostbuster quiz

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

That you can come up with, you know. And, like, oh, there's some I just still don't know, you know.

David Geisler:

One of the coolest things about AZP is that, even from the beginning, we never pretended we were experts or anything like that. Sure. Was like, but but what what what happens is the commute you you end up this is not it's, like, not a show about, like, hey. We have the answers. You end up becoming like, there's it's like a community relationship.

Dan McCoy:

It's a community of, like, the whole thing.

David Geisler:

Yeah. The fans or the listeners of our show even, like, help us realize things back and forth.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, yeah. And so it's

David Geisler:

really cool. And so anyways, I like all that. Let's do our listener feedback. Listener feedback. First one here I have oh, a a w Yarborough over on YouTube in our favorite side quest in Breath of the Wild episode, season one episode 18.

David Geisler:

This is an oldie. Oh, wow. Oh, this is oh, this is one that only Kate and I did way back then. Kate, I'm with you. Though the entry was ten ten days ago.

David Geisler:

I love that people go back and listen to our seasons. Kate, I'm with you on the Tarrytown side quest. The thing I loved about it was the symbolism that wait. It was the symbolism it added to the end game cut scene. If you found all of Link's memories, sun and their name and blah blah blah blah.

David Geisler:

And after I spoke about it on the show with Kate, I was I, you know, I kinda was opened my heart opened up for

Dan McCoy:

it for Remind a me because it's been years since I played it. Like, you do build up the town. Right? Yeah. But like but you don't get to like dark cloud it.

Dan McCoy:

You don't get to like really maneuver the you don't go in like god mode where you're like lifting up the buildings and

David Geisler:

Right. Saying And you don't even get to pick where the you find a person and then that person builds the artery. Yeah. You find a person that person builds the Yeah. It is so that part for me was disappointing.

David Geisler:

But then when I realized, well, wait, that's

Dan McCoy:

not what that's not the game Breath of the

David Geisler:

Wild is. Yeah. And it's okay.

Dan McCoy:

I don't know. But like, within like with the Sheikahs eight, and like being able like having the Magnesis, and like being able to like lift these insanely large things. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for you to cultivate and rearrange the town however you would want.

David Geisler:

We are recording this episode before Tears of the Kingdom comes out, but I think by the time this is posting, Tears of the Kingdom will be

Dan McCoy:

out. Okay.

David Geisler:

But perhaps you saw in the trailer a few weeks ago, perhaps you didn't, that there I'm is

Dan McCoy:

gonna blow your mind and tell you I'm not watching the trailers.

David Geisler:

For Tears of the Kingdom.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I know it's so I have a rule. If I'm gonna play it, no trailers.

David Geisler:

Okay. Cool.

Dan McCoy:

Same with movies. If I'm gonna see the movie, no trailers.

David Geisler:

My rule is officially release trailers for games I'm okay with, but I don't go into like the theories or for games. Go into the theories and speculations. Yeah. Wow. This is interesting.

David Geisler:

When Tears comes out, you're gonna be on equal ground with everyone else on the AZP

Dan McCoy:

I no idea. And I don't. I'm I'm I'm gonna get it. Sure. Like, I'm gonna enjoy it, but I I don't want anything.

Dan McCoy:

Like Sure. Too many times have I've seen, you know, a move get used, and you're like, oh, okay. Well, that's in the game. I I want that pure pure surprise.

David Geisler:

I will not spoil anything. Okay. But your thought about using, like, a power to craft and or build things

Dan McCoy:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

Not buildings, will be realized.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. I and I don't I don't wanna still, like, get too off in the deep end and all of a sudden, like, I'm demanding a Sims Hyrule, you know, or anything like that.

David Geisler:

Like episode one.

Dan McCoy:

But, like, you know, if there's a small little Tarrytown thing where, you know, you get to create, like, this whole thing, I I'd be down for it.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Alright. Here we go.

David Geisler:

Over on YouTube. I think all three of these are YouTube today.

Dan McCoy:

This is interesting. Quick quick. Do we have the entire comment, David? Yeah. It is.

Dan McCoy:

I did check. Okay. Good. Okay. Just making sure.

Dan McCoy:

Just making sure.

David Geisler:

So the way like we do this, sometimes it's less grabbing them, sometimes it's me. This one was probably one that I grabbed. We we used to, like, copy and paste the we'd go into Twitter and, like, copy and paste it, put it in a doc sheet, and all that kind of stuff. Yep. And we realized this is so stupid.

David Geisler:

Let's just if we're on our phone, screen grab the phone or screen grab the computer, and we throw it into a shared Google Drive folder that's just called EZP listener feedback. Nice. And as I read them, then I move them to other folders, and that's how we've, like the system actually works great unless you don't click read more. Like I did. Unless you get a bad screen grab.

Dan McCoy:

Rookie mustache.

David Geisler:

This is Fluffy Mustache gave us a Hey. A review, a comment over on YouTube for the a Zelda conversation in Mexico City episode. That was a fun one. That I don't I don't think you've heard that one yet, Dan. I don't think It I have kinda it kinda came out kinda quietly, but a little behind the scenes is it it was the first there's a I do a storytelling moment in the middle.

David Geisler:

Okay. So I I do like a David narrating with music and stuff Oh. In the middle, and it's about it's about going from getting from the great America there in Mexico to get to this restaurant to meet up with a person to have a conversation with them. And got sound effects, sounds of the highway. It was my, like, pre returning student test run.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Is what it really was.

Dan McCoy:

Got it. So a little artistical flexing.

David Geisler:

There's there's some yeah. It's it is very much I don't like to for AZP to go off format. In fact, I try to keep very strict about it. But this one particular episode, because it was such a unique episode Yeah. I met up with a fan in Mexico, and then we talked about it.

Dan McCoy:

That's amazing.

David Geisler:

It was so cool.

Dan McCoy:

That's cool.

David Geisler:

And it was all because I I Instagram something, and he reached out, and I was like, we can't miss this opportunity. Let's get together.

Dan McCoy:

Jump on it.

David Geisler:

And so because it was so weird, I felt okay doing storytelling. Anyways, Filthy Mustache here says, great episode. Can't wait for more. I have been listening since I was 14. 16 now.

David Geisler:

Well, alright. Cool. I believe the very first I believe the very first episode I listened to was the first quiz episode, which you were on, Darren. I did great. You ever did.

David Geisler:

I've been wondering I've been wonder I've been wondering, is the Majora's Mask episode finally happening next season? Oh, I can speak to that. It is one of my favorite Zelda games, and I would love to hear some detailed thoughts on a on a side note. When tears of the kingdom comes out, which, of course, again, it probably is already out by the time this thing posts, I would also really enjoy a first impressions episode. Thanks as always, and keep up the good work.

David Geisler:

Hey. Hey. Yeah. We we are definitely gonna do a first impressions episode of Tears of the Kingdom. Right now, I'll be honest, the plan is to put that on as one of our bonus episodes on our our middle tier Patreon Sure.

David Geisler:

Thing right now. Because our rule is that our normal AZP episodes are usually kinda timeless. They're evergreen, so to We don't really do news as that much. We don't have episodes purely based on news, very rarely. But we do allow our Patreon behind the scenes episodes to be very, like, in the moment, like, oh, what did you think of that trailer?

David Geisler:

What did think of the whatever? Absolutely. So right now, that is the plan is to do it over there. I'm not trying to get people to have to go to Patreon. There might be other ways.

David Geisler:

We're gonna explore Tears of the Kingdom in a lot of different ways.

Dan McCoy:

I'm sure we're gonna talk about at great length.

David Geisler:

Yeah. So And then Majora's Mask, this episode, we aren't planning to do it in season six here. However, because of the because the cast has grown so large and and the way we treat treat, like, how we all get together to do to do this show these days. Well, I'll just I'll just kinda be blunt about it. I used to only do review episodes with Kate.

David Geisler:

Sure. And I would wait to do them with her. Mhmm. Because, like, we they were was, like, back in the early days, that was, a special thing for us to do together. But now that the the team is so big and the group is so big and the support and everyone's so loving and caring, and there's so much support that I think that there are ways to do I think review episodes in the future maybe should be like three or four of the cast members getting together and round tabling it a little bit.

David Geisler:

I think that would all be really interesting. You know what I I'm

Dan McCoy:

down for it.

David Geisler:

So we are planning a a couple review episodes this season. Maybe one could be Majora's Mask. Maybe we could do a a pivot. I mean, honestly, episode twenty two and twenty three and twenty four, we don't have those filled in yet. So you know what?

David Geisler:

Fluffy mustache, I'm not gonna guarantee there's a Majora's Mask Hey. Review episode this season. But honestly, I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to the cast.

Dan McCoy:

Whatever Fluffy mustache wants, Fluffy mustache gets.

David Geisler:

Including a including a a Kermit the frog as a as a gangster icon as their their little avatar here.

Dan McCoy:

Hey, you're gonna sleep with the fishes. Didn't Like that?

David Geisler:

Wow. I didn't know I queued you up for that.

Dan McCoy:

Loved that one right out. Oh. My Second you said Kermit the frog, I was like, I'm gonna blow this kid's mind. I can't wait. Ugh.

David Geisler:

Alright. Last but not least.

Dan McCoy:

It took we're going. We gotta get into this. We gotta get into this episode.

David Geisler:

We're getting a little chatty. And it's my fault. Matt Kaufman over on Instagram messaged us. I think DM'd us, actually. Oh.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Maybe it was Instagram, maybe it was Facebook. It doesn't matter.

Dan McCoy:

Youths will do. Perhaps.

David Geisler:

So, Matt here says, as the useful they don't use Facebook anymore.

Dan McCoy:

Can The youths will do.

David Geisler:

Just wanna reach out and say thanks for doing these podcasts. New listener, only on season two, but this podcast has really been helping me through a difficult time in my life. Oh. Oh. And it's really keeping me distracted while deep diving into a second favorite game of mine.

David Geisler:

Hey. Only second to Metroid. Oh. Interesting.

Dan McCoy:

You should play Mass Effect.

David Geisler:

Looking forward to catching up on the podcast to find out more that I did not know because of this podcast. Oh, because of this podcast, I restarted Breath of the Wild again. Hopefully, this time, I'll get through the entire game. Keep it up. Oh, then there's a second, like,

Dan McCoy:

this it up, Matt. You keep it up.

David Geisler:

Yeah. And then just like a a few minutes later, there's a second message here. Also, just thought of this. And say, Matt was really on a roll. He's like, and another thing.

David Geisler:

He's got it. I love it. Also, just thought of this In season two episode 25, I believe it was the funny moments episode. Sure. One of you guys, it was Kate and I back then, one of you guys talked about a lady writing in Breath of the Wild in a Breath of the Wild diary about it's been a long time since she's had an Arrow knocked.

David Geisler:

Yeah. The the woman who works at one of the stores in Kakariko. She's a little lonely and she's very excited to sell arrows to Link. Okay. And she technically

Dan McCoy:

Wait. Has No. I actually recall this. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Okay. And there's a diary behind her. And and if you read it, she's, like, basically insinuating, like, it's been a long time since I've had a date or had a man in my life or something like that. Right? And and then but then okay.

David Geisler:

And then later in the episode, you mentioned the diary of an archer who was talking about a divorce. And I don't remember that character, but I believe we talked about it. Do you think these two are the husband and wife who got divorced? Oh. An archer.

David Geisler:

Oh, that's the connection.

Dan McCoy:

She sells arrows.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Maybe they did get a divorce and she's still selling arrows to feel close or who knows what happened.

Dan McCoy:

I mean, maybe maybe it's amicable. It could have Maybe they just were like, it's not working out. Listen, I like to sell them,

David Geisler:

you like to shoot them. Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

I'm just saying, you know, like, you know, you're more of a bow person and I'm an arrow kid, you know.

David Geisler:

Matt, you might be onto something today. That's really cool. Neat. Dan?

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I that is neat. Hit me up. What am I doing?

David Geisler:

You're you're asking

Dan McCoy:

Oh, me okay. So we're starting.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Know. I know. That was kind of vague there.

Dan McCoy:

So I'm I'm gonna start out a little simple. Okay. I'm there's not not I'm not trying these aren't gotcha questions.

David Geisler:

I just realized too, should let the audience know that I have absolutely no idea what you're gonna ask. Nope. And I have no computer in front of me or anything. Yeah. So I might get stuff really wrong.

David Geisler:

And or well, I guess it's not even really a quiz. It's more just like No, it's not

Dan McCoy:

a quiz, but there are some things that I don't from what, like, I came up with a question, and I don't think I found an answer. Got it. So I'm like throwing it over to you.

David Geisler:

Let's try it.

Dan McCoy:

Number one. So why is Link always sleeping?

David Geisler:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I have thought about this, and I know that the designers have, on occasion, in interviews, mentioned that they like the there's there's kinda two reasons. Okay.

David Geisler:

Story wise maybe this is a bit on the nose, but story wise, most of the time, the the Zelda games like for Link to start out literally as a as being a bit lazy. Okay. Because he's supposed to grow into being a hero.

Dan McCoy:

Didn't know if it was not to interrupt. I'm so sorry. But I didn't know if it was supposed to be a character thing because like, it he always starts out waking up. Yep. So will except for I think Link's adventure where he's shipwrecked.

Dan McCoy:

Is that now what's the

David Geisler:

He's definitely asleep in Minish Cap. He's mega lazy in Wind like he's like, he doesn't even wanna get up in Windwaker. That's really when they started, like, doing it. So the first time that I can think of him being asleep is, I think, Ocarina of Time.

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

In release order.

Dan McCoy:

Got it. Okay.

David Geisler:

And that was more for him. He was having, like, a a nightmare in that opening cutscene you might remember. He's like shivering. And then it cuts to Ganondorf. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

And she's he's got a

David Geisler:

And Zelda's Zelda. Going away. He doesn't know who Zelda is yet, she's running away. And so they that was just a nightmare. That was just for them to get a cutscene.

David Geisler:

But from there on out, I think he does usually wake up. Like, technically, Majora's Maski is on his horse in the beginning, but you're absolutely right. Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Minish Cap, almost all the games since

Dan McCoy:

Mhmm.

David Geisler:

He's he's sleeping first.

Dan McCoy:

I mean, Breath of the Wild Yep. Like, is woken up from one hundred year, a thousand years of sleep, know. Big time. I didn't know if there was like a reason or if it's just like a I think it's a funny way to just

David Geisler:

started to become a thing. Started to become a thing. Ironically, in, you know, the adventure of Link, Zelda's asleep the whole time, Link is trying to wake her up or whatever. But then then the second point to that is so they wanted they like when Link is a bit lazy and then he becomes a hero. But secondly, there's it's almost it's not a game mechanic, but the game designers have spoken about in interviews, disparate interviews that I can't, like, really cite right now, but I've, like, picked this information up from reading a bunch of different ones, that there it's kind of an emotional it's almost like a psychological experience for the because the point of Link is to absolutely, which is also why Link doesn't talk, to be a conduit for the player.

Dan McCoy:

You know,

David Geisler:

we've talked about

Dan McCoy:

this many times in our show.

David Geisler:

Ourselves 100% in character. And so if Link wakes up in the beginning, he is starting at zero Yeah. As a character. So we are already imprinting ourselves onto him as he wakes up.

Dan McCoy:

So we're

David Geisler:

So so when when the bird sticks its head in his Skyward Sword or when Zelda runs in and says, wake up, you lazy kid. Yeah. We are meeting these people just as he is almost. Okay. Okay.

David Geisler:

That's cool. Yeah. Alright.

Dan McCoy:

That's that's my first And

David Geisler:

I love how Breath of the Wild does, you know, in a slightly not mature way, but in a more nuanced way, also still reference. Yeah. I mean, he's coming out of the liquid. That is the beginning of the game. Yeah.

David Geisler:

We just hear Link. He comes out of liquid, so we are we are heat. You know what I Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

And I think it's goo. I don't think it's liquid. Goo. Goo? Just to give you heads up.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. Okay. Number two, this is this is a deep dive that I did, so I'm proud of myself. Hey, why don't you tell me a little bit about Zelda's brother?

David Geisler:

Oh, wow. Mhmm. Mhmm. Oh, I appreciate this because I don't think I know anything about what you're talking about. I know we'll see if I can kind of

Dan McCoy:

The prince of Hyrule?

David Geisler:

Let me see if I can

Dan McCoy:

Hey, I got him everyone. Got

David Geisler:

him. I love this. Is Question two. No. This is great.

David Geisler:

Okay. So let's see. Where could which story, which game could there be a prince? Is it okay. Just give me one hint.

David Geisler:

Is it a game or

Dan McCoy:

is it like external? It's a Zelda game.

David Geisler:

Zelda game. Okay. So it's not like the cartoon show No. No. Comic book or something.

David Geisler:

Cause you like in the in the manga, you see Link's mom and stuff like that. Mhmm. Oh.

Dan McCoy:

Where Zelda? I wanna put like a little like Jeopardy thing in here. Is it one of the

David Geisler:

handhelds maybe? Maybe

Dan McCoy:

So, I mean, from what I've seen, and shout outs to Matt, who everyone knows That's a fan fiction. Matt was the one who dropped. He was like, hey, hey, did ask David about Zelda's brother.

David Geisler:

I saw I I mean, the truth is I could try to finagle something out, but I I'm blanking. I have no idea what we're

Dan McCoy:

For what he said, and I I don't wanna, like, make sure, but I think it's from Zelda two. Like, it is he is referenced.

David Geisler:

That could be.

Dan McCoy:

I think it's in lore. I don't I don't think I don't think you ever actually see him. He's like, hi. My name's John. Right.

Dan McCoy:

I'm Zelda's brother. But I just think it's always so funny that we always assume these, like, these members don't have like, well, of course, Zelda has her dad Right. And Link's alone. But, like, there is canon of, like, extended family to some of these people.

David Geisler:

Yes. That's that's cool. And I could see that happening in in the early in the earlier Zelda games that where this I was just like, I mean, there's there's things that come up in the first Legend of Zelda that are full lore that aren't

Dan McCoy:

even in the game.

David Geisler:

Have to read the instruction manual, but they are canon lore and stuff like that. That's a great one. Yeah. I'll have to find I'll have to Google that and find where it is.

Dan McCoy:

I'm trying to look and see if I can find out because Matt was so proud of himself.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Congratulations, man. Was like,

Dan McCoy:

can you get he's like, oh, got it. Oh, I got it. So there's that one. Okay. I love that.

Dan McCoy:

So here we go.

David Geisler:

We can I can say one other thing? Almost all the time, Zelda is a different person

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

In each game. So it makes a lot of sense that she could have different families. You know what I mean? Okay. Like her her dad sometimes there is a dad king, sometimes there is a Well, was gonna

Dan McCoy:

say, but we never really touch base on the mom though. It's always the king.

David Geisler:

I know. I don't I don't know why that is.

Dan McCoy:

Never really get anything.

David Geisler:

I think that there's a I put my headcanon on it or my take on it is that you almost never hear about I think you never hear about the queen. Yeah. And I think oh, maybe it's even explicitly stated in some of the games, but I think what we're supposed to feel is that the the mom has passed, which is why Zelda feels even more responsibility

Dan McCoy:

Okay. When we have a relationship with her dad. Had to raise herself to a certain degree. Because it's not like, from what I've seen of the king, they kinda give him, like, the sultan from To Aladdin? Know, where, like, at times he knows what he's doing, but at other times, he has absolutely no idea.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. He's in over his head on numerous occasions.

David Geisler:

Most definitely, like, breath in the Breath of the Wild area. There's a few in, Minish Cap. He's he's pretty straightforward. He kinda knows what's going on. But and then sometimes the king is kinda re expressed.

David Geisler:

So in Skyward Sword, there really isn't a kingdom yet, but it's there is still there's the head of the school

Dan McCoy:

Got it.

David Geisler:

That is still Zelda's dad. Mhmm. And he's super wise. He, like, he, like, he's almost so wise. He's like almost too chill.

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

Link will come back to him and be like, this is what happened to the, you know, through the story of the game. He's like, this is happened to Zelda. Oh, she fell in a big monster eater and stuff. Ate her. Well, like, you know, like, like, yeah.

David Geisler:

Not like chomp chomp, but like yeah. Into the into the big mouth or whatever. And and Zelda's dad in Skyward Sword is almost like, I know you are the chosen one, and I know it'll be okay, and I trust you Like and you can do this.

Dan McCoy:

Sometimes he's Sean Connery, sometimes he's Don Knotts. Okay? Yeah. Like, he's all over the place with who he represents.

David Geisler:

I would feel like there was one other thing I wanted to say about that, but

Dan McCoy:

Because I still think like

David Geisler:

Oh. Oh. In Twilight Princess, both her parents have passed, and she's only, like, 16 or something. She's running the whole kingdom.

Dan McCoy:

Because I know in my first question,

David Geisler:

one of the question or

Dan McCoy:

my first podcast for this one, it was like, who are Link's parents? Yeah. Yeah. Because I I I still am kind of waiting for the games to tackle this. Because you said it was in the anime or like the manga.

David Geisler:

For Ocarina of Time does does does depict both his mom and dad is dead. In the Ocarina universe, his dad's a knight. He gets into this, like, war that he he perishes. The mom runs into the Kokiri Forest Yeah. With Link, and then she kinda

Dan McCoy:

But like, for all of the games, like, I just think it's fascinating that there there has to be a, like, you know, board choice

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

To ignore this and move forward.

David Geisler:

The closest we ever got with Link having any family members really is Wind Waker where he has a little sister and a grandma.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. So it's just parent. Wind Waker was supposed to be cut and like shipped as a whole different thing, wasn't it? Like What do mean by that? I just it it That's interesting.

Dan McCoy:

It felt like so removed because I think the art being so different, Tomb Link, think it's what we've essentially deemed a

David Geisler:

mass. Absolutely.

Dan McCoy:

That it almost felt like it was a whole new universe, you know, to me, you know, when you shift so heavily.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Visually. Because the aesthetics yeah. And and when you really look at the Zelda series, one thing that is interesting when you look even on I think that that was the broadest stroke made. Yeah.

David Geisler:

But there are kind of like four or five existing art styles right now Mhmm. In Zelda games. And then the reason I call them art styles is because sometimes those they will repeat in other games. Okay. And that Toon Link style ended up going from Wind Waker and getting put mostly on the handheld games.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I was gonna say, like, Minish Cap Minish Cap. Phantom Train or Phantom

David Geisler:

Train. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. You mixed them together. Put them together.

Dan McCoy:

Is a ghost locomotion, and it knows what time it is. Okay. That's all you need to know.

David Geisler:

I'm not laughing at you not knowing that. I'm laughing because you're laughing at me. No. I'm not. What I'm laughing about is that you took Phantom Hourglass and Spirit tracks and turned them into, one game.

David Geisler:

Phantom Phantom Train Phantom Tracks.

Dan McCoy:

We had also just seen the Final Fantasy Distant Wins Sure. Show, and I think there was a, like, one of the songs was called Phantom Train.

David Geisler:

Hey. I love it.

Dan McCoy:

So and I was just because they show, like I don't know you've ever been to one day, but they show, like, a music video of this, like, music they're playing. Uh-huh. And it was like a ghosty train thing. Cool. Okay.

Dan McCoy:

And we'll we'll start with a light, easy one. Mhmm. Hey, man. Who's hiding all this stuff and rupees in the pots?

David Geisler:

Oh, I love that question. Like I know.

Dan McCoy:

Like, is there there's no bank system, and so is it just like put it in the pot?

David Geisler:

So the only bank that I can think of is the bank that's in Majora's Mask where there is a bank system.

Dan McCoy:

Is it a giant pot?

David Geisler:

It might as well be. There might it might actually this the the building might be styled as a giant pot. I'm not so sure on that. But, the the one thing in because of Majora's Mask, you you go it's Groundhog's Day at Yep. The one way to at least so when you Groundhog's Day in in Majora's Mask, you lose all the little items you've gotten.

David Geisler:

Okay. The main items, you keep. So like if you if you get a gem that unlocks another part of the world that stays with you. Major keys, all that jazz. And or if you're like if you if oh, so here's an example.

David Geisler:

You keep your bow and arrow, but you lose your arrows.

Dan McCoy:

Got it.

David Geisler:

When you repeat. And you lose all your money.

Dan McCoy:

The unique items you keep. Yes, indeed.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Wow. You're learning the vernacular and everything. Yes. Because I found out a ladder

Dan McCoy:

is a unique item.

David Geisler:

In first Zelda game, it is.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I don't under like Mhmm. Cool. Yeah. It's a ladder.

David Geisler:

Yeah. And it's super I don't think don't know if you've ever seen how it plays, but it's it's really odd. It's like it lets you walk over water, but it because of the way the graphics work, it just suddenly appears and it's very strange. I'll show you something.

Dan McCoy:

Can you climb clips with it? Can you just like So oddly So it's it's not an up ladder. It's like a temp bridge more than ladder.

David Geisler:

It's it's a bit. It's 100% a bridge.

Dan McCoy:

It's a bridge. Call it a ladder.

David Geisler:

Yeah. There might be a ladder in the invention of Link, I'm not sure I'm not so sure. I haven't played enough of that one to know. But okay. Where are all of the pots?

David Geisler:

So that's that's totally a game mechanic thing, obviously. Okay. Right? Like it's clearly like, oh, we need we need you cut because because like why are rupees in grass? Yeah.

David Geisler:

You know what I mean? But we need a way to I think what I think where the thought process came from, stuff being in pots didn't really start until the Super Nintendo Zelda, the third one.

Dan McCoy:

Really?

David Geisler:

Yeah. There wasn't really you didn't really get rupees from pots in you didn't break pots in the first Zelda game or the second. There it's it's debatable. There's, like, power packs, and you stab it with your sword in the second one, and it gives you more XP or whatever. But Okay.

David Geisler:

But, basically, the pot breaking thing, the first in fact, in the Super Nintendo Legend of Zelda, be even before you get your sword or anything, you can at least pick pots up and throw them. Yeah. So my thought the way I've always kinda processed that, and I don't have any official information on this, is that it's kinda like they were thinking like, oh, shoot. Okay. Well, Mario can hit blocks for things.

David Geisler:

What what's the Zelda version? Okay. Uh-oh. We gotta put them in something. And it's like, maybe it's conceivable.

David Geisler:

It's a bit it's a bit of a stretch, but a pot or a container is where people would be maybe keeping their cash or their their loot. Yeah. And then it's just kind of extracted into something that's a bit bit more absurd.

Dan McCoy:

You're wrong. Oh, you know? No. His name's Tim, and he just drops pots that have rubies in them.

David Geisler:

Are you doing a bit right now?

Dan McCoy:

It's a little bit of

David Geisler:

a bit. Okay.

Dan McCoy:

It's not my best bit, but it's it's Tim.

David Geisler:

Oh, Tim.

Dan McCoy:

Tim the pot planter.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I do think it's hysterical. Unfortunately fortunately, Zelda's kind not gone full full circle on this, but they're a little bit more aware of, like, you're not greener time. You can just go into anyone's house and just break their pots and open their treasure chests.

Dan McCoy:

And so, like, that's that's I'd like to span this over to, like, multiple games. That is something that I have an issue with. Because I'm playing the Hogwarts Legacy game right now.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

And, like, you can unlock somebody's house, walk in, and just take their chest stuff.

David Geisler:

One of my favorite things about Skyrim is how you can't do that. Yeah. You have like, get to know them

Dan McCoy:

and stuff. Exactly. Like and like, the people will be sitting there watching me do this. I'm like, I'm I'm robbing you. Mhmm.

Dan McCoy:

And like they're just like it happens on a daily basis. And I I especially for games nowadays where like your actions kind of dictate how people view you, you know, that's becoming more and and more common. Yep. The fact that like I can do that and there is zero ramifications, zero, like, you know, in Skyrim, like the cops can be called on you or something like that.

David Geisler:

Yeah, basically, yeah.

Dan McCoy:

You accidentally cast a spell in the city.

David Geisler:

Yes.

Dan McCoy:

And people are like, go get them. Guys get you. Love that you have to be more aware of your actions. Yeah.

David Geisler:

I really love that too.

Dan McCoy:

So I would like to see I I don't I don't think Zelda's gonna adopt that mechanic at all. But

David Geisler:

The the thing the the thing that's funny about these Zelda games is because this is we do have a unique I say this all the time, but like we have a unique opportunity with the Zelda franchise, a little bit like Mario, but these games span the the previous thirty years of game development. Sure. And the language of games and how it's grown and matured, and and and not matured meaning like adult, but like matured as in just being more fully realized. We almost can kind of see where and when Witches Zelda game in the in the in the release order, like when the game it's almost a litmus test for where the where the gaming industry was. Right?

David Geisler:

Yep. Because in Ocarina of Time, you're breaking pots, you're getting chests, and and the truth is, like, let's say you're in Kokiri Forest in the beginning. You go into one of those tree houses and you're like, you probably don't even fully recognize that it's a house first. You're like, oh, there's four chests in here.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

I'll open them up. And then if you dig around a little bit, you might kinda see a table and a chair.

Dan McCoy:

Like, hey. There's bed right there.

David Geisler:

And that's about it. Yeah. You know, it's what's one thing that's really interesting is that in the remake of Ocarina of Time, when you go into these buildings, the art team has put up, like, pictures on the walls and Two. Because because that's twenty, thirty years later,

Dan McCoy:

the game

David Geisler:

is making. You know

Dan McCoy:

what mean?

David Geisler:

That now. Right? So I think it's a game mechanic thing, and there's like, these days, if I pick up a pot in Breath of the Wild and break it, I actually feel fully guilty. Yeah. Like, I don't like doing it.

Dan McCoy:

Especially because nowadays, it's like, the pots aren't just like, you know, made ten days ago. Like sometimes you're looking and it's like these archaeological, I got it. Time I got it, archaeological like, know, it ruins, you know, and then you're just like, okay, this is fine. And then all of a sudden, like, you just pick up this thing that's thousands of years old and you shatter it. Like, I always I'm like, wow.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, that is terrible.

David Geisler:

The only the only thing I can think of, you know, and and kind of to this point of the games maturing, when you in Skyward Sword, finally, in Skyward Sword, if you walk into someone's house and you, like, open up their you push a to open up their cabinet, the equivalent of, opening up a treasure chest or something Yeah. The game if there's a character in

Dan McCoy:

the room, they'll say, like, don't you know it's rude to

David Geisler:

look at people's stuff? Or the game itself will will will close the the cabinet and say, isn't it a

Dan McCoy:

bit rude to look at other people's Oh, stuff or okay. That's cute.

David Geisler:

So

Dan McCoy:

you're So they're

David Geisler:

So it's kinda coming around.

Dan McCoy:

I just need some form of and I'm not looking for punishment, but like some form of negative action for a hero

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

To be like just like raiding people's houses.

David Geisler:

I completely agree. And I also think I

Dan McCoy:

love that.

David Geisler:

I one of the one I've I I know we wanna keep moving. We wanna get to break here, but like in the reason I feel guilty for breaking pots in Breath of the Wild is because there are alternative and realistic ways to make rupees, to make money in Breath of the Wild. Sure. Go find your rocks. Go sell things.

David Geisler:

You know, there's an economy. Yeah. You don't have to steal because now because, oh, that there it is. In Ocarina of Time, it's not stealing because there's no there really isn't an alternative. That is the economy or everything.

Dan McCoy:

You well no. I mean you could essentially like, like there's those twigs you feel like it and then you can sell your products that you find, right?

David Geisler:

You can't sell things in Akkorean

Dan McCoy:

You can't sell things. Okay, well then that makes sense. But, and I don't know if it was caught but like also, especially in Breath of the Wild, like, the archaeological aspects of some of these older vases. Like, you're in the dungeons and like, no one's been here for two hundred years and you're like, first clay pot, smash it. Like like, woah.

David Geisler:

Or the all the pots in Rideau Village, they're so beautiful. I feel like I just can't do it.

Dan McCoy:

You know, I always like, even in like God of War or something like that, it's like, oh, what a beautiful handcrafted piece of it. You've smashed it. You've smashed it against the wall. Okay. Well, great.

Dan McCoy:

Thank you. Took me forty five years to make that. You're a jerk, Kratos. You know, I always think of that kind of stuff.

David Geisler:

That's great. I think we should go to break.

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

Cool. Let's come back and we'll do these other questions. Where where are we? Four in right now?

Dan McCoy:

Oh, yeah. We're four in, but

David Geisler:

I got We might we'll have to go a

Dan McCoy:

little faster. We haven't even touched the hard ones. They Alright. I gave you the babies.

David Geisler:

It's the first day of school and I'm walking around Downtown Chicago with hundreds of other students. Everyone's getting back from summer break and you can tell that they're happy to see each other after a couple months. For me, however, it's been a little longer. Hi. I'm David, and I wanna introduce you to Returning Student, a documentary podcast that I've been making about my return to a college that I left twenty years ago.

David Geisler:

I'm back in the same city, at the same school, the same student ID number. Everything else feels completely different. My fellow classmates are literally half my age. My professors work in my industry. Sometimes I wonder why I've come back at all, but then I get the opportunity to sit down with one of my professors and have a conversation with them, which usually yields a little bit of wisdom.

David Geisler:

You can find the show on all major podcast providers as well as our website returningstudentpodcast.com. A lot has changed over the past two decades. Hello there, listeners. David here. You know, the whole team at Another Zelda Podcast appreciates every bit of support our listeners give.

David Geisler:

And if you'd like to enjoy some extra content, we invite you to consider becoming a patron through our Patreon page. Sword members get a thank you on our website as well as monthly digital wallpapers for all your devices and the opportunity to participate in an annual meetup on Discord with the AZP team. White Sword members will get everything the sword tier gets, and also they'll get access episodes a week early as well as bonus episodes that we record specifically for Patreon. A new thing we're doing is monthly Discord meetups where we'll play trivia and hang out with you as well. Lastly, and this is our most popular tier actually, the magical sword level, which includes, of course, everything from the previous two levels, but also gives supporters access to behind the scenes videos that we produce and behind the scenes extended video versions of every episode.

David Geisler:

Thank you so much for your time. Let's get back to the show. And if you're already on Patreon, we are so grateful that you're helping us keep another Zelda podcast vibrant. And we are back.

Dan McCoy:

Welcome back. Oh. That was a heavily featured song in the new Ant Man movie. The Quantumania. Welcome.

Dan McCoy:

Welcome. Welcome. Welcome back. I think it's the theme song from Welcome Back Cotter. Oh, that one.

Dan McCoy:

Welcome back.

David Geisler:

I think I was thinking of that Mace song.

Dan McCoy:

I was like, I have no idea what you were thinking about. It's like, I we are definitely not on the same page.

David Geisler:

Alright. Alright. More questions. Six six more to go, and I think you even have some bonus questions.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, I

David Geisler:

got I Well There's no counting. Pick which six here's a

Dan McCoy:

question that I have. Okay. So for Zelda that predominantly most of what we talk about, Ganon, Ganondorf. Yeah. All the forms of him Mhmm.

Dan McCoy:

Are predominantly always the villain. Yeah. I mean, so even in Twilight Princess where it was Zant Mhmm.

David Geisler:

Mhmm. Was trade off.

Dan McCoy:

It's it's actually Ganon the entire Now, there is another person we talk about. Mhmm. And that's Demise. Yes. So, and that's only one game.

Dan McCoy:

Right? Demise is

David Geisler:

Demise is only technically realized in Skyward Sword.

Dan McCoy:

In Skyward Sword. But like, Demise is not to

David Geisler:

be trifled with. Demise is like the OG evil, isn't it? Yes. And one could argue that all of the Ganon and Ganondorfs are demise because, basically, at the end of Skyward Sword, demise almost kinda goes into, like, not god status, but almost like how Helia is a god and then Helia imbues into all the different Zeldas. That's how Zeldas become Zeldas.

David Geisler:

Okay. Demise kinda does that for the evil version. Okay. So as you as you're about as you're defeating Demise in Skyward Sword, he basically because that's the first game in the canon. Yep.

David Geisler:

He says, I swear to you, Helia. I'm paraphrasing all of this. I will I will find a way to return. I'll always return. I'll come back.

David Geisler:

I'll find ways. Yeah. Basically. And I'll never let I will always battle, not really Link

Dan McCoy:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

But I will always battle highly Yeah. Which then becomes

Dan McCoy:

it's always Zelda verse Ganon.

David Geisler:

It really is.

Dan McCoy:

Link is doing the fighting.

David Geisler:

Very rarely does Ganondorf want to end Link,

Dan McCoy:

but sometimes he does. No. I'm he Little bit in one way. Wants to he wants to end Link so that way he can get to Zelda.

David Geisler:

Yeah. You know what? You're right. I don't think, like, Ganondorf wakes up in life and then says, that Link Yeah. Until Link's part of the situation.

Dan McCoy:

It's the Bowser Mario. Like, Bowser always wants Peach. Like, that's his endgame. His endgame is always to get to Peach. Oh, mean, earlier Bowser.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. They've really changed his whole Mhmm. So well, and they also kinda brought it back a little bit. For a while, he'd stopped caring

David Geisler:

about kinda fun to see him be super mean in the movie trailers again. Oh, yeah. It's so great. Like, that's kinda nice. Because he's getting kinda, like, nerfed a little bit.

David Geisler:

I mean, though, he's basically becoming Mario's friend in

Dan McCoy:

a lot

David Geisler:

of the games recently.

Dan McCoy:

I mean, especially with Super Smash Brothers and like Yeah. He becoming a fan favorite.

David Geisler:

Even in Odyssey, there's touch of that. Yeah. But anyway.

Dan McCoy:

Well, they're also like, he's now wearing the outfits too, and he's doing the dance musical numbers. Like Yeah. It's good to see him back to full on evil. Like, it's just

David Geisler:

So yeah. So to get back to Calamity, the general Okay. I feel that the general consensus in the community is that every time Ganon enters the scene, be it a calamity Ganon or any kind of now Ganon is almost like the spirit of it's it's basically Demise finding a way to come back into the world as a spirit as Ganon.

Dan McCoy:

Ganon or so Demise is Ganon. You can call same or like Yeah. I mean Ganon is powered by Demise.

David Geisler:

The way the way But then I

Dan McCoy:

thought he was powered by the power triforce. So I think is is he a double whammy?

David Geisler:

I'm making this up right now, but I would imagine that Demise somehow figures out how to use the power is maybe imbued But where is demise? So so here's the thing. The I think you're onto something here because the end of Skyward Sword, this is these are new thoughts for me right now. Yeah. I'm putting this together.

David Geisler:

The Triforce gets, you know, split and broken in in in the and and In Skyward Sword. Yeah. In Skyward Sword. Essentially, Hylia, the goddess Hylia, is imbued into the wisdom triforce. Okay.

David Geisler:

I think A

Dan McCoy:

percent or just a portion? Like, if she go, I'm going to turn into a triangle?

David Geisler:

Kind of. Yeah. Okay. It's like we need to we need yeah. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Kind on a t shirt. Her I'm gonna turn

Dan McCoy:

into a triangle. I'm going to turn into a triangle.

David Geisler:

Okay. Maybe that's a new AZP t shirt. I like that. And then and then essentially, Demise does that. And he's like, yo.

David Geisler:

The power.

Dan McCoy:

You're turning into a triangle? I think a little bit. I'm turning into a triangle.

David Geisler:

Yeah. There's probably some there's probably, like, some people at Zelda universe and Zelda dungeon that are like, what is It's just like talking about

Dan McCoy:

right now. Like, But that is a kind of a more of a

David Geisler:

casual fan.

Dan McCoy:

Lose the third triangle

David Geisler:

because So that's the triangle of courage. Sure. I don't know if anything or anyone is in it. It is more just it is it's Link ends up earning it or he's born with it. But but because it's courage, he has to, like Unlock.

David Geisler:

It's not another yeah. He has to find within himself. I don't it is different in

Dan McCoy:

that way. But there's there's no representative of that third

David Geisler:

piece. Not that I know of.

Dan McCoy:

But Hilya is representative of wisdom Wisdom. And Demise is representative of Power. Power.

David Geisler:

Okay. The courage and that's the one thing that's also a little different is that Gan when Ganon comes back, it's almost always the same Ganon.

Dan McCoy:

And, like, in Ganondorf powered up becomes Ganon.

David Geisler:

Swap it. Ganon is the pig beast spirit thing cloud thing. He's like the kind of the

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. So

David Geisler:

spooky power.

Dan McCoy:

But Ganondorf's the dude. Yeah. Oh, you know what? Ganondorf gets powered up and turns into beast.

David Geisler:

You're absolutely right. I was I was imagining so I was thinking about, like, levels away from demise. So demise can kind of can kind of come into the world in a sloppy way as Ganon. Yeah. But if he wants to come into the world as a a refined way, like really controlling the puppet, it's Ganondorf.

David Geisler:

I got it. Okay. It's kinda my interpretation. The

Dan McCoy:

overall question is demise versus Ganon, who's the bigger evil. Right. But now that we've figured it out, it has to be demise. Yeah. Okay.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Demise is the one pulling all the strings Is it

Dan McCoy:

the puppet master of this whole thing?

David Geisler:

Very much so.

Dan McCoy:

Which is so weird that we haven't heard when's the last time somebody said the word demise Yeah. Out loud in a game?

David Geisler:

I agree. I know. I know what you mean. Well well, here's another thing that's gonna blow your mind. Skyward Sword, where demise was kind of retconned into this lore, is the most recent Zelda game since Breath of the Wild.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. Oh, okay. I mean, I I think it fits to a certain degree, but I also wish that going forward that this is something that we tackle and handle.

David Geisler:

I would love to again, we already talked about how Tears of the Kingdom is probably out when this episode comes out, but I would love to see that the Ganondorf corpse that we've been seeing in the trailer. Yeah. You haven't seen any

Dan McCoy:

I I watched the first one with the elephant.

David Geisler:

Oh, and the kind of scary Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

Zombie guy at end. Like the like the curb,

David Geisler:

like the handle. Imagine that it's I I think a lot so that's that is so that literal kind of zombie looking thing is we all pretty much believe is Ganondorf. Yeah. Really probably from Twilight Princess, like, mummified for one reason or another.

Dan McCoy:

And Twilight Princess is part of this whole world?

David Geisler:

Well, that's a whole other conversation because there's a

Dan McCoy:

version And and that's the other thing that, like, I just I like it, but I feel like there's always too much interpretation for what is the same universe and what isn't.

David Geisler:

So here's here's like my hot take with Zelda games is that It fits till it doesn't? It they Nintendo, for years, would almost brag that they never think about the story first. They always just think about a game mechanic, and they build a game, and then they see if there's a way to make it work as a story Okay. For the Zelda game specifically. And up until about ten years ago, about when Skyward Sword came out, they didn't really care about any kind of timeline at all.

David Geisler:

Yeah. You know what I mean? It was like a big deal when Hyrule Historia came out that there was actually like a decided timeline, and even that thing is pretty much not making sense. Yeah. You know I mean?

David Geisler:

With the three different versions and all that. Got it. When you have to when your when your lore, when timeline continuity is so messed up that you have to create a an alternate timeline where your hero doesn't do the thing your hero's supposed to do and loses to Ganon in an arena of time, and that spawns three or four other games or five other games Yeah. You're really stretching.

Dan McCoy:

Sure.

David Geisler:

So as much you know, and one of the things that I love about doing this show is that we do like to go into the game design, the mechanics, and the lore, and we try to make sense of all of this. But you gotta really use the Zelda games with a broad Broad stroke. Broad stroke.

Dan McCoy:

Broad stroke.

David Geisler:

My line of thinking is Nintendo wasn't thinking about it. Nintendo doesn't care, so I'm gonna care a little less too. Okay. Which is why I personally subscribe. I'm not campaigning for this interpretation, but I personally subscribe to the idea, and I've said this before on the show, that Breath of the Wild could be interpreted as the only real one, and all of the others are lit literal legends inside the Breath of the Wild universe.

Dan McCoy:

Then why do you okay. Well, then you're contradicting yourself when you say that you think that the hand is the Ganondorf Twilight Princess hand coming from out.

David Geisler:

According to legend.

Dan McCoy:

But but, like, so if if then the legends can be real?

David Geisler:

Oh, you're right. So You're right. If Twilight Princess is coming into Tears of the Kingdom, and Tears of Kingdom is in the Breath of the Dan, congratulations. That was amazing.

Dan McCoy:

Well, I mean, I don't like to brag, but, you know, I was waiting

David Geisler:

for You are on to something there.

Dan McCoy:

We're gonna so we're gonna then if that so then why do you think that's why do you think that's Twilight Princess Ganondorf?

David Geisler:

So Andy Barney and I spoke about this too a little bit because he does the YouTube channel Zelda where he basically tries to, like, decode lore and stuff like that. And sometimes he really he's even admitted to me that he's like, sometimes I get in there so deep. It's like, wait, how do we make this all make sense? And we were talking about the idea of Breath of Wild being the only real one. And and Andy pointed out, and I really appreciated that he did this, he pointed out that the definition of a legend doesn't mean fantasy.

David Geisler:

Sure. Most legends are, you know, 80% true or whatever.

Dan McCoy:

Absolutely.

David Geisler:

You know what I mean? And they're based on real things that happened. So I'm realizing now as we talk that we could we could imagine that all of these events, these larger events that happened in Twilight Princess and and all any of the games, to some degree, happened in the Breath of the Wild universe. But over, I mean, ten thousand years, these stories get changed around in, like, maybe the minish weren't actually tiny, or maybe they were not as tiny as the legend now tells, or or, you know, the Twilight Realm is kinda like the Silent Realm, but maybe it's actually the same thing, but different cultures use different names.

Dan McCoy:

You know what this is starting to remind me of though? The Studio Demands It where we did the where where we like The crossover one? We had the crossover with TZ where we just like like, okay, so they're all legends. Yep. They're all real, but they're somewhat multiverse, but like somehow the legends leak through.

David Geisler:

I will confess. I think that's why I leaned into that idea during that episode. Yeah. Is that that really, there is probably pinpoints in every single Zelda game that are factual to some degree, but really probably they're legends. And there's one other clue to this interpretation.

David Geisler:

If you go to the official Nintendo website, they show, like, the timeline of all the games and all the three Nintendo time. This is the graphic on their website. Yeah. They show the timeline and all the craziness that Hyrule Historia put together. Then there is a solid horizontal line, not connected to anything, and below that is Breath of the Wild.

David Geisler:

Okay. Horizontal. All the lines are vertical connecting all the other games, and then it's like hard stop, guess what new.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. So so then, again, why do you think that this is the Twilight Princess Ganondor?

David Geisler:

I think I personally I I think others think

Dan McCoy:

this too. But you see like

David Geisler:

his sleeve is like his jewelry is exactly the same.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. And then he hasn't worn jewelry like that in any other iteration.

David Geisler:

Right. Yeah. His headpiece. He always has like a gem up on his forehead Yeah. You know, that he likes to wear or whatever.

David Geisler:

But the specific neckpiece and, like, the things around his hands and stuff, obviously, the graphic style is just a touch different. But, like, the the Twilight Princess style was a slightly more realistic look. Yeah. But for for me, it looks like it's the same. He seems to be about the same height.

David Geisler:

It seems like he's wearing the same jewelry. And maybe I would imagine the clothes have, like, eroded away or whatever.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. But this could also be the original Ganondorf that they just created for Absolutely. Breath of the Wild.

David Geisler:

Yeah. This whole Twilight Princess thing could be a total nothing. Well, I mean, our listeners know right now because of the weird timing of this episode coming out. But

Dan McCoy:

Okay. Well, thank you for clearing that up because that was one that, like, that was a personal one because I just didn't understand the relationship of the villains throughout the game.

David Geisler:

So Skyward Sword basically said, guess what, Zelda, guess what, Ganon, actually, there's Hylia in demise.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. And Link's just in the middle trying to figure this whole thing out. Okay. Yeah. Here we go.

Dan McCoy:

Next. Oh, this is awesome. Zelda, the games span like thousands of years. Mhmm. Right?

Dan McCoy:

Mhmm. Maybe even longer.

David Geisler:

Breath of the Wild's lore is ten thousand years

Dan McCoy:

deep. So do you ever see any signs of evolution? As in, do you ever think that the loft wings are descendants of the Rito? Oh, I love that. Or maybe did I say

David Geisler:

that Or reverse perhaps.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. Or like

David Geisler:

It's it is official Zelda canon that don't roll your eyes too hard when I say this

Dan McCoy:

I'm gonna.

David Geisler:

That the Zora, the fish people Oh,

Dan McCoy:

and then I also have, like, were Zora once Hylians. Hirulians. Oh, that's interesting. Hylians. Because they're so they're so, like, humanoid.

David Geisler:

They have gotten more and more humanoid.

Dan McCoy:

Well, I mean, the the leader is a giant jellyfish. Remember, he just like waddles

David Geisler:

back Yeah. And forth for a Yeah. I think that's a game design this sort of thing. But okay, wait. What was the first question?

Dan McCoy:

Do you the Loftwings Yeah. Do you think the Rito are descendants of the Loftwing?

David Geisler:

I personally love that concept. I love it so much. I think that would be like a really cool way to go with it. But the the Zelda, again, of this wacky retcon timeline Oh, okay. We have 22 from now

Dan McCoy:

it's just gonna be like, why

David Geisler:

Because timeline. Well, the truth is and and this is okay. I'm okay with this in the fandom. I don't wanna shoot down lore in Zelda. I think it's awesome, and I honestly think that, again, speaking to how game making has matured in thirty years k.

David Geisler:

I think that that Nintendo's very much thinking about lore at this point. I think the connections that seem to be in Tears of Kingdom and Breath of the Wild are like it's it's like Star Wars level lore.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I think they're gonna blow some people's minds because I think from what I've seen and heard, like, it is now a forefront because I don't think they're trying to change the gameplay. I think it feels like Breath of the Wild is going to be kind of the same mechanical game. Yeah. So now it's going to be plot that's going to move this forward.

David Geisler:

And in many ways, the four mainstream Zeldas that that succeeded Ocarina were basically the Ocarina gameplay.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

Exactly. So I think Nintendo cares a lot about it now. And I think if you're a Zelda fan in this day and age, caring about that lore and caring about the timelines and all those things is really cool and important and a ton of fun, and I think Nintendo cares a lot more about it too. I think they started caring when Skyward Sword came out Okay. Ten years ago.

David Geisler:

But if we're looking at Ocarina or we're looking at, you know, the adventure of Link or something, it's we have to be really careful because Nintendo, I feel, wasn't thinking about that stuff Oh,

Dan McCoy:

of those games.

David Geisler:

So we're Twenty five years ago.

Dan McCoy:

We're making the connections ourselves, but like

David Geisler:

So so so there's lot of retcons. So the the question of evolution, like the Loftwings turning into the Rideau, it's forced Nintendo to do some wacky retcon evolution decisions. Some of those are that the Kokiri, the Okay. The green haired people in Ocarina of Time, they evolve into the Koroks. Shut up.

Dan McCoy:

Mhmm. Those little wood things that give you the seeds?

David Geisler:

That's what that's what that's what the Zelda encyclopedia, that's canon. We gotta figure that one out. And then also there's the Qui Qui relationship in Skyward Sword. So now there's a version where it could be that the Qui Qui

Dan McCoy:

Wait. Okay. Yeah. Remind me about the Queequi.

David Geisler:

Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah.

David Geisler:

I know. The Queequi look a lot like Koroks, but they're kinda like maybe a little more planty, but they're kind of the same kind of like star looking kind of like thing.

Dan McCoy:

How was that? There it is. Okay. Now I'm back on. Yep.

Dan McCoy:

I'm back on.

David Geisler:

There's a version where the Kui Kui could have turned could have grown into the Koroks or the Kokiri, and then the Kokiri evolved into the Koroks. It's it is canon legend. That's funny. You can't say it that way. Oh oh, do you know what just realized too?

David Geisler:

Like, even in Star Wars, there is canon and legends. Sure. That's how they refer to it.

Dan McCoy:

You know, the stuff has been out taken out of the canon. JJ Abrams coming through and saying yes and no about everything. Yeah. Well, well, there I don't I think we just need a JJ Abrams for Zelda.

David Geisler:

I don't know Like if that's true.

Dan McCoy:

What what do you okay. But, like, okay. So what do you think what do you think after this new game? And I wanna get back to what you're saying.

David Geisler:

I'm so sorry. No.

Dan McCoy:

It's fine. But I wanna, like, new like, the game comes out, which it will be out.

David Geisler:

Tears is

Dan McCoy:

out But, right now as it's like, what if this ends and just bookends this entire timeline? Oh, that'd be fun. Like and he's like, boom.

David Geisler:

It'd be a masterful retcon.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. And it'll just be like and then, like, something happens with the universe

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Dan McCoy:

Da da da da. And it's like, next game, Zelda chapter one.

David Geisler:

I mean, perhaps, think they were kinda doing that with Breath of the Wild, but I hear you. And I also think and also I wanna be clear about this. Using the word retcon is not necessarily a negative thing. Oh, no. It just means that you've you're kind of maybe figuring some things out after something other things exist.

David Geisler:

Yeah. That's okay. Think Sometimes

Dan McCoy:

some retcons have led to some amazing content. They've been sometimes just need

David Geisler:

I think one could argue that all of the Disney plus Star Wars shows now are are preretconning the sequel trilogy.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. Without a doubt.

David Geisler:

You know what I mean? Mhmm. And and and the Clone Wars retconned the transition from the prequel trilogy. Like, it's it's okay to do this. This is storytelling.

David Geisler:

It's alright. So the fact that Nintendo ten years ago said, shoot. We're gonna start caring about this because our fans care about it. Yeah. And I mean, probably didn't say shoot.

David Geisler:

I'm obviously just, joking around. It's not like they're like, oh, darn it. We gotta do this. You know, they do care right now. And also, if you think about it, the people that are making Zelda games now, I mean, the directors are still the directors that have been working for the past twenty years, but a lot of the team are people who grew up playing Zelda games.

David Geisler:

Yeah. So they have that emotional connection, and they want that storytelling to be deeper and truer. So it it it it is it is a complicated answer to say, like, well, because timeline. Because the truth is yes, But, like, okay. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Let's maybe still have some fun and try to figure it out. Yeah. Wow. So the evolution.

Dan McCoy:

I did not think we were gonna get to this whole thing because of that question.

David Geisler:

Well, because where I was going to is that we we know we know in quotes where the Rito came from.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, we do? Where did the Rito come from?

David Geisler:

The Zora evolved into them.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, man.

David Geisler:

When the planet flooded. So the fish people turned into bird people when all the water was around.

Dan McCoy:

So some of them did because they're still like

David Geisler:

And now in Breath of the Wild, they're coexisting. Yeah. So, like, who evolved who didn't?

Dan McCoy:

Where were the Rito's first premade?

David Geisler:

They were introduced in Wind Waker.

Dan McCoy:

Wind Waker. Okay.

David Geisler:

In place of the Zora.

Dan McCoy:

Now are there Zora in Wind Waker? There isn't. Did we ever check?

David Geisler:

Yeah. We We know this. It's just like There's only one Goron actually. But the reason is so then so then, you know, Nintendo released, like or the Hyrule Historia, one of them says, like, yeah, the Zora turned into the Rito, and everybody's thinking that's ridiculous because the Zora would have been like like, the world is at its best when it's flooded for the Zora. Yeah.

David Geisler:

And so then there was, a little pivot where Nintendo said, well, it wasn't an like, an evolution evolution. The three goddesses zip zap zopped them into the Rito so that they couldn't go underwater and find original Hyrule. Man. Mhmm.

Dan McCoy:

So why do they care? Why do who's they? Why do the three goddesses care that this

David Geisler:

They were trying to keep original Hyrule hidden under the ocean in Wind Waker hidden from Ganondorf. And the Oh. So they didn't want anybody to know where it was anymore. In fact

Dan McCoy:

Why why didn't they just get rid of it? If they have the power to I I mean I

David Geisler:

think the in in the in the canon of Wind Waker, I think the idea is that one day they would receive the flood again when they took care of the Ganondorf problem. Got it. It's kinda like lock the door. Lock the door. You know what I mean?

Dan McCoy:

Okay. Well,

David Geisler:

I And now we have Rito and Zora together, so I don't

Dan McCoy:

know. I like the fact that they're descended from Loftwings. I like that too. I think that's cool. I think that's awesome.

Dan McCoy:

So we're Canon?

David Geisler:

Loft lock in.

Dan McCoy:

Lock it in.

David Geisler:

The only way Loftwings continue to exist in again again, though, like, there aren't Loftwings in Breath of the Wild, but again, Skyward Sword is actually the second newest Zelda game right now. Sure. The Loftwings only really live on in the Zelda symbol. They're the little there's a little technically

Dan McCoy:

a little, like, bird But, like, you find it that old the old the old shield that's been in the dungeon for hundreds and thousands of years. Like, it has the loftwing symbol on. Yep. So, like, unless there was just a really cool Rito that someone's like, I'm gonna put you on this shield for forever. I think the loftwings

David Geisler:

I think at the end of Skyward Sword, the loftwings, you might be able to do one might deduce that they just stay up in the sky.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. But, I mean, you don't see Loftwings in Tears of the Kingdom, do you?

David Geisler:

I haven't seen any yet in any trailers or anything. Okay. Cool. Alright. Let's keep going.

Dan McCoy:

Alright. Oh, and so this may be a stupid one. And where you go like, yes, idiot.

David Geisler:

You know.

Dan McCoy:

Play the game. Hey, do you ever see the old guy in the dungeon that says, like, it's dangerous to go alone? Take this. Do you

David Geisler:

ever see him again? I can politely say, yes, idiot. Okay. And you Politely. Yes, idiot.

David Geisler:

Yeah. What I'm what I mean by that is that the old man, the archetype of the old man, the literal old man that's in the first Zelda game Yeah. Is not, like, repeated, but that mechanic and that character type is often repeated. Okay. Remember way back when we did our commercial episode, and said, who's the guy with the mustache all the time in these commercials?

David Geisler:

There's always, like, some, like, fatherly character showing up that looks a little bit like Mario. Yeah. It is very common. Just like it's common for Link to be waking up in the in the morning and beginning of the game, it's also very common, but not always true. But it's very common for Link to interface with some kind of old man almost immediately in in in Zelda

Dan McCoy:

Wild, like, it's the king. Right?

David Geisler:

Yep. Yeah. So the fact that I think so the old man it's even he's even referred to as old man, like, the title card, I think. It says, like, old man in Breath of the Wild. They are directly referencing that old man from the first Legend of Zelda game.

David Geisler:

Okay. You bump into him exact in a pseudo cave Yeah. Just like the original. Like, they're clearly referencing this. Super cool.

David Geisler:

It's a twist that he's the king. You're supposed to really think that he's just some old man.

Dan McCoy:

So it it is a common trope for you to run into an old man In the beginning. Gives you a very important artifact, and then he never comes back.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Kinda gives you the start, and then you don't doesn't really yeah. He just sets you on your way.

Dan McCoy:

Doesn't it feel like it's a waste of, like, you could really have a cool reveal later on, or, like, he could be maybe that's the dude who's the courage person, you know? Oh, love that. You know, like he I love because he's always right there to like put you on the first step, give you the courage to keep going.

David Geisler:

Dan, you're I think I mean, I think you're onto something there. That's cool. So that's so that's why that's what old man is. Now also in the original Legend of Zelda, there's technically many old men that you then continue to find. They're like in secret chambers and they are technically different old men.

David Geisler:

Okay. There's even old women in that game too, but

Dan McCoy:

think I just I just remember, you know, it's it's it's dangerous to go along and take I'm like, why do I not know who that guy is? Does he does Old Man

David Geisler:

in Breath of the Wild say it's dangerous to go alone? No. No. In

Dan McCoy:

like the first Zelda. Right?

David Geisler:

Yeah. Know.

Dan McCoy:

I don't know. Dangerous to go If he if he did, I would have noticed. Yeah. Because that's like one of the few Zelda things that I do know. Like, it's dangerous to go alone and take this.

David Geisler:

Yeah. And then and then there's the it's a secret to everybody, which is what we use as our little subtitle for our show, and that's that's from the very first Zelda game, where a Moblin or a Bokoblin or Bokoblin or whatever, like, you go into a store and it's a monster running the store, and he gives Link money. Yeah. And he says it's a secret to everybody. So there's like a good Moblin or Goblin or whatever out there.

David Geisler:

And so then they they continue to use that line, but anyway.

Dan McCoy:

Quick ones. Ready? Mhmm. When will we ever get the Switch remakes of the CD I games?

David Geisler:

Definitely never. Definitely never. Definitely never because Nintendo wants to bury them, and then they don't own the rights. Like, the company's two two or three different companies So I'm gonna a cease and desist

Dan McCoy:

letter from just bringing it up.

David Geisler:

No. I actually thought you're gonna say when are we getting the HD remake of Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, and I think that's inevitable. Think that's in the next five years. Okay.

Dan McCoy:

I have a doubt. And they're just waiting for sales to dip one fraction of one point.

David Geisler:

It'll be between Tears of the Kingdom and the next Zelda game.

Dan McCoy:

But I think, like, and I I don't know how software programming works, but I feel like there has to be, like, you could just run it real quick, and it's just sitting there. Like, we'll save it for when we need some money.

David Geisler:

We have quantifiable evidence that it's very easy to take Wii U games and put them on the Switch. Yeah. Because many of almost all Wii U games have had have done that. Exactly. Been rereleased on the Switch, And the HD remakes are technically Wii U games, so anyway.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. Is there any lore to who makes all the maps encompasses? Oh, that's super cool. Because like they're they're all made. Is there like a name on the bottom of it?

Dan McCoy:

Is there like a very famous explorer? Yeah. Why, like, there's just compasses and maps everywhere?

David Geisler:

I love that. I don't think there is the closest thing I can think of is that there is a there is a little bit of light map making in like Wind Waker and Phantom glass, the ocean based ones, where you're kind of doing cartography. Okay. But it's not in the dungeons. Those maps that are in the dungeons, that would be cool to I

Dan McCoy:

just think, like, it'd be a fun, like and maybe even a side quest, just like in one of the games, to just hear about a guy who just all he wanted to do was map stuff. Yeah. And then you'd like you can even retcon that like every single game you remake in the far corner, it's just his name signed off on the bottom. You're like, oh, it's oh. Oh my god.

Dan McCoy:

He went through and he made all of these maps.

David Geisler:

That would be cool. That would be super cool. There's probably an NPC or two out there that loves map making. Oh, yeah. I'm sure there's something in Breath of the Wild that talks about that.

Dan McCoy:

Without a doubt. Yeah. How many animals has Link been?

David Geisler:

Oh, I think I can maybe figure this one out. I don't have

Dan McCoy:

the answer, so this is figuring out.

David Geisler:

I'm gonna go through release order. Nothing in the first one, nothing in the second. He turns into a bunny in the third one. He I I received this question in a quiz once. I think it was the SwitchClicks quiz.

David Geisler:

I think they asked me this one. I got it right. It was, like, six or something or four.

Dan McCoy:

It's been six different animals.

David Geisler:

Well, let's let's just figure out. Maybe it was only four. I can't remember. But so it's a bunny. And it's also gets tricky if you count him turning into Zoras and Gorons in more Majora's Mask.

David Geisler:

I'm let's count it as full animal, not like yeah. Okay. Fine. Not just other beings. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Bunny, certainly a wolf in Twilight Princess.

Dan McCoy:

And that's where I'm out. That's what that's my answer is too.

David Geisler:

Like, full on turning into animals? I think he's done it four times. What else is there? He doesn't turn into an animal in Minish Cap. He doesn't turn into an animal in Skyward.

David Geisler:

He has animal friends in the with the Oracle games, but he doesn't turn into them.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. So why does he turn into a bunny?

David Geisler:

Not to like Honestly, okay. For the sake of this conversation, so I don't sit here and do this for another ten minutes, let's say it's only two.

Dan McCoy:

Because that's all we can think

David Geisler:

of right now. I think there's more. I think it is four.

Dan McCoy:

If if you wanna count the masks he puts on as becoming that Yeah. But I don't count it.

David Geisler:

And is a Goron an animal? What are we calling as an animal? But but I agree. I that's more like a magical he's he's taking on a a a race or a species or who knows what. So Link turns into a bunny in Is

Dan McCoy:

a deke doesn't he turn into a dekew nut thing?

David Geisler:

Mhmm. Absolutely.

Dan McCoy:

So it's like, is that an animal?

David Geisler:

Yeah. And that's like, I know. Right? Like, it it It's a it's a plant. It's a it's a it's a sentient plant.

David Geisler:

Yep. All the deku are, which is a whole thing because then you have good baked Deku and bad Deku.

Dan McCoy:

There's bad Deku?

David Geisler:

Oh, absolutely. You know, the even the things that look like little shop of horrors,

Dan McCoy:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

Those are Deku Deku babas. And so the way Deku There's

Dan McCoy:

just so much I don't know. David, there's just so much I don't know.

David Geisler:

I've been learning all this too, and there's still plenty to learn. But Link turns into a bunny in in A Link to the Past because at a certain point in the game, he unlocks a portal to the dark world. Okay. And just consider it as like the inverse world.

Dan McCoy:

Wait. Wait. Wait. He goes to the dark world and becomes a bunny. Yes.

Dan McCoy:

Like Because what the dark

David Geisler:

world does

Dan McCoy:

Out of all the dark things in the world Yep. His darkness is a bunny.

David Geisler:

Well, it's not exactly that things are dark in the dark world. It's called the dark world, but what it really is, it was kind of named that after the fact because what this new dimension does is that it it transforms everyone into what is their pure heart. Oh. And unfortunately, we've learned that there's a lot of darkness in the hearts of the people in Hyrule in Link to the Past, they turn into monsters and the monsters turn into worse monsters.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, wow. What would you turn into, David?

David Geisler:

Oh gosh, I don't know. That's tough. That's difficult. Yeah. As an animal?

David Geisler:

Well, it would be fun.

Dan McCoy:

What would what's your heart animal?

David Geisler:

I don't know if I really know. I know growing up my favorite animal was always the zebra.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. It's not your favorite animal. It's like because I know what I am.

David Geisler:

Okay. What

Dan McCoy:

do I would turn into a raccoon.

David Geisler:

A raccoon?

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I would just I would just hang out, eat trash, you know Sure. Just like lay on things, come out at night, take a nap.

David Geisler:

Something I would wanna I would like to be something that kinda moves I to woods guess I can't do wolf. Bobcat. Yeah. You know, maybe a cat thing would be cool.

Dan McCoy:

I could see his bobcat.

David Geisler:

I really Yeah. That'd kinda neat. Or like a a lynx. If had to. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Something in that spectrum would

Dan McCoy:

be kinda neat. Definitely a tail. Like I like just something without a doubt that has a tail.

David Geisler:

Now it's getting weird. Okay.

Dan McCoy:

There we go. Dark world with animal compass. Oh, okay. So unlike this I mean, slight jab at Kingdom Hearts.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. So oh, no. We'll do that one second. If I if I if I if I have a nephew, which I do.

David Geisler:

Yes. Okay. Couple of

Dan McCoy:

them. And they don't they've never played any of the Zelda games

David Geisler:

Okay.

Dan McCoy:

At all. Like starting from one to now. Where do you advise them to start? Yeah. Now do you tell them like, hey, go start at one and then like, play as the game progresses?

Dan McCoy:

Or is there a different starting point, like start chronologically, which would be

David Geisler:

Yeah. Like how people talk like, order do you watch Star Wars movies? Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

Like So what what what is your?

David Geisler:

Yeah. Well, I I might have an actual literal answer. My my my two nieces and my nephew, I started all of them on Breath of the Wild.

Dan McCoy:

Starting with Breath?

David Geisler:

Yes. And mostly, it's because I feel that some of those older Zelda games I was years ago, back when we were first before I started another Zelda podcast, I was seeing someone in Milwaukee. Okay. And she was like, hey, I'd like to play Zelda games.

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

And we had it was just as we were getting the Nintendo the little mini Nintendo system, you know, was coming out, the one with all the old Nintendo games on And you just grabbed

Dan McCoy:

your Switch. What are you doing? That's one of my next questions.

David Geisler:

Oh my gosh. I'm about to

Dan McCoy:

only if this it didn't charge. Sure.

David Geisler:

Maybe you can grab one of these cords. I mean, computer's doing okay now. You might be able to pull this one and plug it in from the

Dan McCoy:

Okay. You go.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Technical difficulties. We're charging up a switch because it's part of the question. That's interesting. So anyways, so I was seeing someone this is long long time ago.

David Geisler:

She said, oh, I wanna start playing Zelda. And kind of like, just on her own was like, I'm gonna play the first one. And it was it's and the first one's hard to play.

Dan McCoy:

You know what

David Geisler:

I mean? Just mechanics. That's where games were. She actually pushed through and enjoyed it, but did not wanna play and when she was done with that one, she was like, I've got enough Zelda in my system. I'm done.

David Geisler:

I actually think that for I think it's okay to play Zelda games almost in reverse almost. It's okay to play the newest one first Okay. Because I think, you know, like, is is my niece or nephew going my five my six year old nephew and my 10 year old niece, are they really gonna wanna start with Ocarina of Time, for example?

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

You know, they may not. Maybe they care about the graphics, maybe they don't. But I know a lot of for some people, it's hard to go back to Ocarina. I tell you what, if there's ever an an Ocarina HD remake k. I think I would start people there.

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

It's kind of the turning point. It's kind of the A New Hope of of the self timeline.

Dan McCoy:

But, like, why? I mean, I guess, because I I don't feel like it's really the starting plot of or starting point of plot. You know?

David Geisler:

I kinda feel it is. Well, maybe it's because of that timeline split because it seeds all those other things.

Dan McCoy:

But then, like, in order to explain everything and kind of go back and have that conversation with, like if the goal is at the end for them to understand and kind of, like, be able to map out the entire timeline themselves. Like, they are gonna play all the games. Like, take difficulty and all of that off the side.

David Geisler:

Like Mhmm.

Dan McCoy:

I I just think Ocarina is like a kind of a messy middle. Like, it's important. Interesting. It's important because it shoots off like two different timelines, but like, what's number two? Like, where do you

David Geisler:

go next? Know? Then you decide, like, do you wanna go along the Wind Waker path or do the Twilight Princess path or whatever? But honestly, no. When it's a young kid when it's a young kid who's just getting introduced to it, I think you do the the the current Zelda Mhmm.

David Geisler:

Because that's how a lot of people get introduced to Zelda. They for me, it was, well, Link's Awakening, but it kinda was Ocarina of Time. Okay. For for some people, we have one with Andy, his first Zelda was was was Spirit Tracks on DS. That's Really?

David Geisler:

That's his fear for Zelda. Yeah. He was like, he just got it as a one off or something like that, it changed his world. You know what I mean? Yeah.

David Geisler:

And so it's kinda like your first Zelda is always the the best one. So to that point, I now here's the here's the real question. With tears of the kingdom, I think I would still have someone start with Breath of the Wild.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, yeah. I wouldn't start Tears of the Kingdom. That would be ridiculous.

David Geisler:

Don't play Majora's Mask before playing No.

Dan McCoy:

I think there's definitely one before the other, but it's like, what is the what is the starting point then?

David Geisler:

I have then I'll just do this. This is way too complicated, but I have started all three of my nieces and nephews with Breath of the Wild. Okay. And they are they've been

Dan McCoy:

playing Breath of the Wild

David Geisler:

for the past four years of their life. They slowly get better and better at it. They just live in that world and they move all over the place. And I think there's gonna

Dan McCoy:

be so time. Much time in there.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Once they get more into like a teenager space, when you start to appreciate history a little bit more, or maybe the history of game design, or you can appreciate that an older game can still be fun. Some people never find that and that's okay.

Dan McCoy:

Well, I have that issue. Whenever you asked me to go back, I remember we were at your place one time and you were like, just play Link's Awakening. Remember you go ahead. And I remember going like, this is the hard. Not hard, it's just like Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

Not hard as in difficult. But like okay, for instance, think, I don't know if I told you this, but Tiff and I just recently downloaded like Resident Evil four. Mhmm. She wants us to get into Resident Evil. She loves them.

David Geisler:

The remake or the original?

Dan McCoy:

Not the remake. Originally. Like Resident Evil because everyone's like, oh Resident Evil four so good. It's the best

David Geisler:

Resident Evil. When it came out, it was.

Dan McCoy:

And so I was like, okay cool. So we downloaded it and like I could not play it. Yeah. Like the controls are so tanky that like you have to stop what you're doing, aim your gun and then shoot and like I'm just spoiled. I'm used to flowy combat.

Dan McCoy:

Used to able to strafe and shoot and run to like, to take all of that away and make me go back to like move, move, stop. Aim, shoot. Like it just feels.

David Geisler:

So like, when I go back and I play StarTropics on the Nintendo or something like that or any of these or any of the Zelda games even, you have to there's a time one of my hardest things to do is to play Link's Awakening. Yeah. Not Link's Awakening, A Link to the Past. It's a lot of people's favorite Zelda game. Was the third one.

David Geisler:

It was the first one on Super Nintendo. The only one on Super Nintendo. And That's where he has purple hair. That's where he has the purple hair.

Dan McCoy:

Got it.

David Geisler:

And to this day, whenever I go back into that game, I don't have a particularly enjoyable experience because something about the minutiae of those controls just don't click with me.

Dan McCoy:

Mhmm.

David Geisler:

But I try to see past that. I was able to see past it with the original Legend of Zelda and also the Adventure of Link. So, like, there were days years ago where I'd go into the original Legend of Zelda and I'd play it for two seconds and I'd be like, I'm out. I can't do this. But, you know, you just have patience.

David Geisler:

You're doing it for the sake of the like, would I do that with a different franchise if I wasn't making this podcast? I'm not

Dan McCoy:

Okay. So I have one more question and then I'm hoping this switch boots up because that's gonna be the last question of the time.

David Geisler:

But Okay. I'm not sure that that's battery's gonna symbol.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. So how come Ganon doesn't have a cool sword or Ganondorf?

David Geisler:

Yeah. You're right. Ganondorf. Well, he has a sword in Twilight Princess, and you literally sword fight him at the end. Yeah.

David Geisler:

But it I don't know if it's really necessarily named or anything. Maybe it's the Dark Bane of whatever. Who knows? But you're right. Because Ganon occasionally will have, like, mega sword knife y things.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

I actually there's there's a trick in this question. Okay. Because like, I just wanted to say that I read that the sword that Ganondorf uses Mhmm. Is the same sword that they used to execute him. Did you know that?

Dan McCoy:

Like

David Geisler:

In maybe in Twilight Princess.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. Twilight Princess. Yeah. But apparently, like, there's a cut scene where they like

David Geisler:

Oh, yeah. They stab him. They run

Dan McCoy:

him through. Like, he then uses that sword. Yes. And I was like, that, okay.

David Geisler:

Like Because they stab him and he falls into the twilight realm. Yeah. And basically tricks Xant into getting

Dan McCoy:

him out as what I just I Yeah. Really wanted to bring that up because I thought that was a really cool fact that I didn't know and I just wanted to show that. No, I

David Geisler:

like that a lot. I'm not sure the not the etymology of that sword, but I'm not sure what the history of that sword is. He most of the time oh, but it is Ganon again. I was about to say most of the time he has like in the early days, he'd have like a Trident or something that he would throw at you. But that was Ganon, not Ganondorf.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. So here we go. Now, you've officially answered all my text based questions

David Geisler:

Okay.

Dan McCoy:

Which is fantastic. Fantastic. But there is one more question in the wheelhouse that I I had to save for last because it's probably the most important.

David Geisler:

I see you grabbing your Switch here.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I am playing Link's Awakening. What? And yeah. Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

It's fun. Wait.

David Geisler:

But we just talked about how you didn't like Link's Awakening.

Dan McCoy:

I know. But I'm playing.

David Geisler:

Oh, you're playing the remake?

Dan McCoy:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no, so it's the new one. Cool. Because like Oh, dad, I'm so happy about I think we talked like, I don't like the originals. I shouldn't say I don't like them.

Dan McCoy:

It's hard for me to play just because I get visually bored Okay. With this, like, looking at the same, like, four colors.

David Geisler:

Dan, you have that right.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. And I like it. Some people love it. Some people like it was part of their childhood. Some people like it's it's it's heart blood for them.

Dan McCoy:

And I get It was not for me. Uh-huh. So it's maybe it's like the same reason why I'm never gonna play like one of the original Super Mario Brothers.

David Geisler:

And that because the Awakening remake. I mean, it looks it looks pretty good.

Dan McCoy:

I mean It's pretty shiny. Yeah. It's very shiny. At it's something to look at.

David Geisler:

Right? Yeah.

Dan McCoy:

So I I need your help because I'm stuck. And I have I have no idea what to do next. Okay. And I know you've beat it. Show me.

Dan McCoy:

So

David Geisler:

You know, there's actually there are like Link's Awakening has like two or three oh, I'm taking the Yeah. Take it.

Dan McCoy:

Yep.

David Geisler:

Link's Awakening is was my first game, and I did beat it organically as a kid. Okay. But there's two or three times. I I remember Celeste spoke about this too. There's two or three times in the game where it's almost a hard stop because the puzzle you need to solve is kind of ridiculous.

Dan McCoy:

I have no idea what to do next. Like, and I'm just gonna scoot over. Alright.

David Geisler:

So this is the pause screen, and I see that you've completed the first dungeon because I see

Dan McCoy:

the Did it myself. Thank you.

David Geisler:

I'm so happy that you're playing this. Oops. I pushed the wrong button.

Dan McCoy:

You just hit yeah.

David Geisler:

Start software. I accidentally pushed home. Okay. There we go.

Dan McCoy:

And so, there I am. So these So you're

David Geisler:

trying to get to the second dungeon.

Dan McCoy:

These two little annoying kids have told me about like their dog missing. Do you maybe you need

David Geisler:

to find Bow Wow right now.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. And I have no idea what to do.

David Geisler:

Alright. Okay. And I

Dan McCoy:

don't wanna do it. I need you to do it because if I touch this thing, I'm gonna throw against the wall anymore.

David Geisler:

Oh my goodness. Oh, you're in the right? So this is the main town. Yep. Yep.

David Geisler:

Bow Wow, I think if you speak to

Dan McCoy:

Like the two little whiny kids.

David Geisler:

If you speak to her remember the chain chomp that was hanging out around this thing? That's That's Wow. Okay. So you know that because I think she calls him Bow Wow. Right?

Dan McCoy:

And she's just complaining about something.

David Geisler:

Yeah. This is this one's a little this one's a little tricky. I remember this. It's you go you have to go fight some guys up in here.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, man. Let's go. Because I fought in here.

David Geisler:

We're doing this

Dan McCoy:

on so I'm going up the hill. I'm gonna go into the annoying maze forest thing that takes me forty five minutes to get through because it's dumb.

David Geisler:

The raccoon part? Or just

Dan McCoy:

No. Remember like you had to like find the drugs to give to the raccoon

David Geisler:

You can have it little bit. That's true. Alright. So I'm walking through the mysterious woods right now. Maybe I'll pull this little

Dan McCoy:

well, we're fine. This is hysterical.

David Geisler:

You know what? I think it's I think you go north. It's one of those where

Dan McCoy:

I've done you. I've gone everywhere. Oh, watch out. I'm gonna get you.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I know. I'm just running through right now.

Dan McCoy:

I

David Geisler:

Oh, wait. Oh. Oh. Oh. Jump is to x.

David Geisler:

Okay. Do that. Falling in a pit. I just fell in a pit because I pushed the wrong button. So I'm going to the North Eastern area.

David Geisler:

This is kinda where the mysterious wood ends.

Dan McCoy:

Sound that the the Moblins make? Yeah. Making you know, like, you hear them, like Yeah. It makes me feel bad. So this you've been to this swamp up here

David Geisler:

and Mhmm.

Dan McCoy:

Mhmm.

David Geisler:

I think you

Dan McCoy:

Watch out. That fish is very annoying. Uh-huh. Yep. Mhmm.

David Geisler:

I think you navigate through all this.

Dan McCoy:

I'm mad at how quickly you're doing all this.

David Geisler:

Oh. Oh, right. So Bow Wow will eat these flowers.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. Well

David Geisler:

And now I am trying to remember where Bow Wow is. I think he's I think some Moblins have him. Where? I know. I know.

David Geisler:

I I know where it is, like, on the map. It's right over here.

Dan McCoy:

And then how Oh.

David Geisler:

Oh, we go we get to it from from the little part where you get the star heart. Okay. Okay. Okay. I can't I might I might edit this down for the show a

Dan McCoy:

little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Sure. Alright. Cool.

Dan McCoy:

Because I like, I feel like I've ran, walked, jumped.

David Geisler:

My thumb is sliding. It's those potato chips we were snacking on.

Dan McCoy:

Blame it on the chips.

David Geisler:

I mean, frankly, even if we restart, that would be better, but I'll just go down there.

Dan McCoy:

I'm sure there's a heart here and there.

David Geisler:

There's always hearts.

Dan McCoy:

But I'm like, I've checked all up here Mhmm. And there's nothing.

David Geisler:

I I think I know where you have to go. But look, even I went the wrong way just now this first time. Okay. We wanna get out of the mysterious forest. It's to the it's to the east of Keckere Keckereko Village.

David Geisler:

It's to the east of the town you start in. Alright. So I'm going south back through the mysterious forest right now.

Dan McCoy:

So we're leaving the mysterious forest. Yeah. We don't need

David Geisler:

to be here. I know. I'm just taking hits. I'm just running.

Dan McCoy:

Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

David Geisler:

This is not I'm playing kinda fast right now. I'm just trying to get to the spot. So I I think I recall. Okay. So now we're going back into Mayb Village.

Dan McCoy:

Okay.

David Geisler:

And I'm walking past Bawa's place. The the mom or the owner is crying. We've got some foxes. We're going past her.

Dan McCoy:

She taught me about a song. Yep. Blah blah blah blah.

David Geisler:

Song of the Wind Fish. So we exit so this is we're at Link's house now in Mabe Village and we exit this way.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. But I don't have any rocks.

David Geisler:

Oh, you can't lift that rock? Yeah. Okay. What the heck's going on?

Dan McCoy:

See?

David Geisler:

Oh, we do wanna go through the mysterious forest. We need to go up through the upper right. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Okay.

David Geisler:

I can't believe I'm running around like a maniac. There's I know exactly where you need to go. Back into the mysterious woods.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I feel like I've I've gone all over the mysterious woods.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I I I believe that thought or I believe that feeling. I feel that way sometimes too with some of these areas. There's one area when you get to the Southwest or the Southeast part of the map Yeah. Where there's like one little sneaky little path to get to a whole area and I always accidentally just go like, let me just get to that area.

David Geisler:

Alright. We're back in Mysterious Forest. I need to get to the Northeast corner of it. I'm gonna show you the map right now. We're trying to get right there.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. I'm telling

David Geisler:

you. To go north right here, I believe.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. I'm I'm telling you. I've tried

David Geisler:

it. Alright. I'm I'm genuinely happy you're you're playing this game. You just kinda did you just, like, decide to, like, pick it up in one day or how what was your

Dan McCoy:

So we were on vacation with my nieces and nephews.

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Dan McCoy:

And they they really fell in love with Ultimate Horse Chicken.

David Geisler:

Oh, great.

Dan McCoy:

And so I gave them mine because I had Ultimate Horse Chicken downloaded. So I was playing their Switch and one of the games they got was this one. Was like, you know what? I had been talking to David nonstop about telling him I was gonna play this game. Like, I'll start.

Dan McCoy:

And then they let me, like, borrow that because, oh, we haven't played that in a long time.

David Geisler:

Alright. So here we are. I think we wanna go north from here.

Dan McCoy:

I feel like

David Geisler:

Yep. Tall Tall Heights. And then right through this little bit, the bad guy's right here. He's in here.

Dan McCoy:

Oh, see? Then I must have missed this whole thing.

David Geisler:

Maybe this little because we went through this little corner of the

Dan McCoy:

woods and you have to

David Geisler:

fight these people. Would you like to fight them?

Dan McCoy:

Oh, yeah. Just set it no. We'll we'll set it down because it's gonna be a boss battle, I don't want people to see how

David Geisler:

much time it's die. Mini little boss battle, so I'm gonna save it.

Dan McCoy:

Yep.

David Geisler:

You'll get Bow Wow from these guys. They've they've captured him. I I don't know if you have to bring him back to the owner, but what you really wanna do is bring him over to that little lake with the white flowers, because he'll chomp and eat those white flowers. And that's how you and and the second dungeon's in that swamp Okay. Lake

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I'm telling you, like, I've gone all over this map. I've turned it up, like, three separate times Yeah. And just went, I'm gonna find it.

David Geisler:

There's I'm I'm having a moment like that in A Link Between Worlds right now, where I'm trying to get into this one dungeon, and and I'm going into the dark world or whatever it's called, you know, an underworld in that game. I can't remember what it's called. And I can't keep I keep, like, missing the path, the teeny tiny little path. There are a couple of times here where, yeah, it was just it was it was so we were at that point where there was the circle there was the Pit Of Circle, the circle of pits Mhmm. Is and I jumped into it and then we jumped north and that brought us into Tall Tall Heights.

David Geisler:

And and maybe just maybe you just didn't jump north.

Dan McCoy:

We'll see because I still feel like the game's out to get me.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Well well well well, come back to me when you're, like, on the fifth or sixth dungeon and you have to roll dice or play chess.

Dan McCoy:

That sounds awesome. Oh, okay. It sounds awesome. Alright.

David Geisler:

I hope you like it. Okay. Cool. Well, Dan, this was great. Thank you so much, for asking me these questions.

David Geisler:

Not a problem. I've learned some things about myself tonight and how and what my Zeldom is my Zeldom, my fandom Yep. Is with Zeldom.

Dan McCoy:

Then you're

David Geisler:

a bobcat. And I'm a bobcat.

Dan McCoy:

You're a bobcat, David. We found that out today.

David Geisler:

I'll take it.

Dan McCoy:

With a tail.

David Geisler:

People already know you.

Dan McCoy:

Do bobcats have tails?

David Geisler:

They might have, like yeah. No. I think all cats have tails tails, and very rarely do you see I think they all naturally have tails. You don't get the little snipped tails. That's Yeah.

David Geisler:

That's like a thing that happened with dogs with breeding, I think.

Dan McCoy:

Okay. Okay.

David Geisler:

But Dan, people already know you, but if this is their first episode, where can they find you?

Dan McCoy:

What Hello everyone. My name's Dan. So I am part of the Six Five family. I have me and Matt, who hopefully you've maybe heard an episode. Matt's gonna be on this before

David Geisler:

or after. He was well, no.

Dan McCoy:

He was the opener. He's opener. He's opener. So me and Matt have our own show, which we probably talked about a great length on that one too. It's called fan fiction.

Dan McCoy:

We would love for you guys to jump over and to give us a listen. We are on season two right now. Mhmm. Season one is video games. Season two is movie franchises.

Dan McCoy:

Mhmm. Season three TBD? Season three is see, we've we've got we've got thoughts. Got some thoughts? We got

David Geisler:

some thoughts. Maybe some if some listeners have some ideas too,

Dan McCoy:

they can. We got some but we're

David Geisler:

It's a genuinely hilarious show.

Dan McCoy:

We You guys crack me. I've known Matt for a year, so if you just wanna hear two nerds bicker back and forth for about an hour about anything, we're we're the two that you should really stumble upon.

David Geisler:

I know that you're speaking with a sense of humor right now, but like, I don't I I wouldn't even call it bickering. The two of you, like, you like, yes and each other so much. Yeah. You just layer on top of each other. This show just key it just moves, Well,

Dan McCoy:

we've been doing this for, like, thirty years now, so we've just decided to finally record it. So if you're into it, we would love to have you over. But that's where we are. Fan fiction, f a n f I x dash t I o n. You can find us on all the podcast places that you can find David.

David Geisler:

Super cool. Even yeah. You can even find a link to it at the bottom of the another Zelda podcast website.

Dan McCoy:

Pew pew.

David Geisler:

I'm David. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at raptor paints. The show is another Zelda pod on Twitter and another Zelda podcast on Instagram. You can go to our website, another Zelda podcast, where we have a bunch of blog articles and links to our Patreon account where we have even more content. And, let's see what else.

David Geisler:

What are the other basics? Oh, yeah. We're on all the podcast providers. Pod Google Podcasts, Spotify.

Dan McCoy:

Said that, David.

David Geisler:

Yeah. For fan fiction, I had to do it for AZP.

Dan McCoy:

I suppose. For FFX, not AZP. Fine.

David Geisler:

And all those things. But really, can just go to our website. I know there's all the podcasts. Or actually, when I recorded an episode with Andy, he was like, or just Google it, because it's it's like gonna a lot is gonna pop up. Just do that.

David Geisler:

Thank you so much for listening. This was this was I this was a great episode. This was cool.

Dan McCoy:

Yeah. I always enjoy these.

David Geisler:

I love this because, like I said, I'm not joking. Like, you you when you have to answer questions or figure things out as a person who is a fan of something, sometimes sometimes we just learn a little bit about ourselves,

Dan McCoy:

don't we? And I love to see David, like, process things. You know? Like like, David always comes so prepared. Like, he has notes about what he wants to do.

Dan McCoy:

And just to see him go, oh, oh, good question. Oh, I'm thinking right now. He's like, he says it out loud. He's like, oh, my brain's just moving right now, and we need to go do this. And he's just like, yeah.

Dan McCoy:

Let's go. It's exciting.

David Geisler:

Awesome. Alright, Dan. Well, we'll see you we'll see you next time. I'm not sure what it'll be, but this was great. Thank you very much.

Dan McCoy:

Adios.