Layovers and Lessons: Inside the Life of a United Airlines Pilot

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The discussion with Paul Holte explores not only his professional journey as a pilot but also the personal sacrifices and adjustments he and his family had to make along the way. He reflects candidly on the financial struggles of starting at Continental, where he earned a meager $25 an hour, contrasting it with the more lucrative opportunities available today for new pilots. Volti's experiences illustrate the broader narrative of the aviation industry, including the evolution of pay structures and job opportunities over the years. He emphasizes the value of building relationships within the industry, which often leads to job opportunities that are not publicly advertised. The episode captures the essence of being a pilot today, highlighting the need for adaptability and the importance of maintaining a positive outlook despite the industry's ups and downs.

What is Pilot to Pilot?

Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.

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sxmoffer hey, my name is Paul Volti.

I'm a 757 and 767 captain for
United Airlines, also known online

as My Layover Life.

AV Nation, what is going on?

And welcome back to the Pilot
to Pilot podcast.

My name is Justin Seams and I
am your host.

Today's episode is with Paul
from My Layover Life.

He's probably everyone's
favorite United Airlines pilot.

Well, maybe except for Swain.

I don't know.

They can battle it out together.

I'll message them both.

We'll put up a poll.

Actually go to YouTube,
Instagram, we'll vote.

Who's your favorite?

Paul or Swain?

I don't know how we got there,
but we did.

But AV Nation, I hope you
enjoy this podcast.

I've been wanting to have Paul
on for a while.

Reach out to the dms.

He's like, hey dude, I gotta
take a sick vacation with my wife.

So I was jealous for a little
bit while they're out in Italy and

I was hanging out in North Carolina.

But you know, it is.

He's the Layover Life guy.

So I need to Learn some things
from him and how to take some sick

videos and live the dream.

But, AV Nation, I hope you
enjoy this episode as much as I did

recording it.

Paul was a lot of fun to talk to.

And without any further ado,
here's Paul from my layover life.

Paul, what's going on, man?

Welcome to the Pilot, the
Pilot podcast.

Hey, man, thanks for having me.

This is great.

Yeah, anytime.

I'm glad we got this to work out.

I messaged you, what, about a
month ago, and you're like, hey,

man, I'm gonna go on a sick
vacation for a little bit.

So I was paying attention to it.

I was like, oh, man, he really
did go on a sick vacation.

I was like, dang.

My wife's like, why'd we go to
Ohio to visit our family for our

anniversary.

And they went all over the
place, like, I'm sorry, All right.

I'm new to the airlines, all right?

Give me a break.

Yeah, my wife and I just went
to the Amalfi coast in Italy and

celebrated 20 years of
marriage, which is pretty wild.

Yeah, we.

We celebrated 11 years.

Let's see, two days ago or,
wow, three days ago.

I hope my wife doesn't watch.

Congratulations.

Thanks, man, I appreciate it.

But they're not here to talk
about our anniversaries.

We're not here to talk about
our lovely wives.

Another podcast we will shout
out to them.

They're amazing.

But we're here to talk about you.

We're here to talk about your
aviation journey.

And I always like to start at
the beginning.

So why did you become a pilot
in the first place?

So when I was 13 years old, I
got a ride in a tow plane, the tow

plane that pulls up gliders.

And my dad and I were just
hanging out at the airport, little

grass strip near where I grew
up in Minnesota.

And my dad actually talked to
the tow plane pilot and asked him,

hey, could my son go for a ride?

And it was literally a five
dollar, you know, just ride with

the tow plane pilot.

And I went up when I was 13
and got hooked on that, you know,

eight minute airplane ride.

And so the next summer I
started taking flying lessons.

And my dad saw that I was
obviously interested in flying and

said, but I was also getting
really bad grades in school at the

time.

So he said, all right, well,
for every A you get, you get one

hour flying.

And for every B you get, you
get a half hour flying.

So overnight I went from
season D's, the A's and B's and started

my flying Lessons, of course,
back when you're 14, you don't need

to fly, you know, four times a week.

So I was flying once a month
or twice a month maybe, and eventually

soloed a couple days after my
16th birthday and then got my license

on my 17th birthday and then
got my instrument rating while I

was still in high school when
I was 18.

So the bug hit you hard, went.

On to college, and.

I'm sorry.

So the bug hit you hard then?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I.

I think by the time I got to
college, I had about.

I mean, it was almost 250 hours.

So I got my commercial rating
shortly after I got to college.

And.

And from there, I was, you
know, throughout college, I picked

up a bunch of different flying
jobs, from flying skydivers to.

I flew a Cessna 210 for a
company, and.

And I.

Ultimately, the coolest job I
got was sitting in the right seat

of assessment citation.

There you go.

We didn't fly very much, but,
you know, for a college kid to be

building jet time was a pretty
big deal.

Yeah.

So that was awesome.

So when did becoming an
airline pilot kind of enter into

your brain or that being the
end goal of the career?

Was it that first flight where
like, all right, I love this.

How do you make money doing this?

Or was it, all right, I love
this, let's go for a flight.

I'll continue this and kind of
see where it goes?

Yeah, no, I.

I knew I wanted to be a pilot.

I didn't necessarily know I
wanted to be an airline pilot.

And it wasn't until probably I
started flying that citation.

The guy I was flying with,
Neil, he used to be an airline pilot,

and then he retired from that
and became a corporate pilot.

And it wasn't until I really
started talking with him more, I

didn't know if I wanted to be
a corporate pilot or an airline pilot

or a cargo pilot or, you know,
my biggest ambition was flying a

Learjet, flying bank.

Checks around and, like, life
can't get any better than that.

I just want to be in my
Learjet flying checks.

Yeah.

And he said, you know what?

For a career, you want to be
an airline pilot.

Corporate flying is really
cool, but you're also pumping your

own gas sometimes and making
hotel reservations and filing your

own flight plan, which is not
hard or necessarily bad.

But, you know, airline flying,
you walk down the Jetway, you take

a left, they've done
everything for you.

You just show up and fly
airplanes, and it's a great career.

And I can't thank him enough.

For giving me those words of
wisdom because it's turned into a

great career.

Yeah, I'm relatively new to
that style of flying.

I came from flying corporate
or fractional and the idea of just

turning left is so foreign to me.

You know, it's.

You check your phone in the
morning, all your flight plans are

done taking care of, but
you're chasing catering, you're trying

to figure out bags, you're
trying to figure out where's the

airplane is in the hangar, do
I pull it out, what time do I pull

it out, how much fuel do we
need, all that kind of stuff.

And now having the ability to
literally just turn left and to sit

down and you know, you take a
little break, you look at the plane,

you're like, I'm gonna do my
pre flight flows, do all.

I'm the 737, so you know, it's
like I'll reach all the way back

and try to reach everything.

But it really is true.

It's.

It's hard to beat the idea of
just turning left corporate.

You can make good money, there
can be good lifestyle.

Sometimes they run you down
pretty hard, but I don't think it

can beat.

You know, I'm kind of an
airline truther now.

Granted, I'm getting ready to
start my eighth month, so relatively

new, haven't been burned too
bad yet.

But yeah, it's.

I'm an airline truther now, man.

It's the.

Yeah, I never thought I'd ever
say that, but here we are.

Yeah, it's.

I mean all.

You know, any pilot loves
flying airplanes, so they'll do whatever

it takes to fly an airplane.

But for a, you know, 30 year
career, to just be able to walk down

the jetway and hang a left, it
just, it makes it so much easier

and.

Absolutely.

And you can really just enjoy
the flying and the layovers.

Absolutely.

Uh, when you were doing your
training in high school, the.

What did your friends think?

I had a friend that was 16 and
he was getting his private.

And granted, my dad was a
pilot, so I was aware of aviation,

but I was still like, dude,
that's crazy.

Like you're only 16, how are
you training?

Was it similar for you?

It was similar to me.

I mean it got the.

I grew up in a small town, so
it kind of caught the town's attention.

You.

Like, I ended up in the
newspaper a couple of times and,

and as far as other kids
though, I.

I feel like I've always kind
of stood out from the normal crowd,

so it didn't really bother me
at all that I, you know, I played

tennis a little bit in high
school, but I wasn't super into sports

or anything.

Like, flying was my sport, so
I'd go mountain biking in the morning,

go to school, and then go out
to the airport in the afternoon.

And.

And that was kind of my.

That was kind of my deal.

And, yeah, a few kids caught
on to it, and I think one other kid

in high school ended up taking
lessons for a little while, but I

don't know.

I've always kind of liked being.

Not that flying airplanes is
being an outsider, but, you know,

I was the one kid in town that
was doing it, so.

Yeah.

And, I mean, not everyone does it.

And like you said, some people
will take up a lesson or.

Or even get their private.

And then they kind of just
fizzle out and they just stop flying

all together.

It's not something that people
continuously do or even make it all

the way to the airline pilot.

So it definitely is a little
bit different.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Was the whole lot of, you
know, fortitude to put up with, because

really, you have to love
flying to put up with all the learning

and all the lessons and all
the stuff.

I mean, it's easy to look at
you or me now, like, all right, well,

you're an airline pilot.

That must have been easy.

You just sign up and they
teach you, and you become an airline

pilot.

There's a lot of not super fun
times, like you're studying and you're

working hard, and.

And a lot of people don't see those.

Those hours spent, you know,
not flying an airplane and just sitting

on your desk looking over the fars.

I remember specifically a
certain time when I was flying, when

I took a bunch of time off.

I was playing football in
college, so I was going back and

forth, and, you know, I got to
a flight and it was so bad.

Like, I mean, one of those
fights of your cfi, you're like,

whoa, this, dude.

That's not good.

And I was just like, why can't
I get this?

You know?

And I think some people have
that moment.

It's pretty regular.

Like, if you have that
feeling, it's okay.

You know, I had that.

You probably had that.

A bunch of people have had it
at the time.

But it's something that you do
forget, and people don't look at

when, you know, you're.

You're in Italy, you're on a
layover, you're living your dream.

They forget the fact that you
were really.

You pretty much sacrificed for
For a long time.

And it's not like it is today,
where you could just get 1500 hours

or a thousand hours and hop
right into a regional jet and start

flying jet time.

You were flying checks.

You're flying whatever you
could and not making any money.

That's what's amazing.

Like, literally no money.

In some cases, you were just
begging for a ride, and you're like,

dude, I don't need to eat.

I don't need anything.

Just put me in the plane.

I'll be good.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, flying that system
citation, I didn't make money doing

that.

That was just, you know, two
hours of jet time once a day, you

know, like.

Which was amazing.

But, like, that's stuff you
can't pay for, you know, college

kid.

You can't just go pay for two
hours of jet time.

That would cost thousands and
thousands of dollars.

So really, to do it for free
is like, I mean, I wouldn't do it

for free today, but, you know,
when you're just trying to build

time, it's.

It's the way to go.

So talk a little about that,
because a lot of people message me

and they're like, hey, like,
you always talk about putting yourself

out there, you know, getting
that airport job, just talking to

people around you.

Talk about how you were able to.

I don't want to say finagle or
finess, but talk your way into a

right seat in a citation or 210.

Because it's.1 of the best
ways is just to be there.

If you're consistently there,
you show an appetite for aviation.

And if they just have an
inkling that you're a good person,

don't burn any bridges.

Opportunities will come to you
by literally just being there.

So talk a little bit about how
you got those jobs, how you found

some sweet flying that you can do.

Yeah, Literally every job I've
ever had has not been an advertisement

in the newspaper or, you know,
or online or whatever.

I'm kind of dating myself.

But literally every job I've
had has been because I knew somebody

associated with that job.

So I got a job working at an
FBO in St.

Paul, and that's how I met the
guy who flew the Cessna 210.

And when he quit, then he, you
know, he knew that I was interested

in that, and he called me and
I interviewed for the job and got

it.

And then, you know, that.

The citation job.

When I was in college, I
literally met the guy at a restaurant.

I saw him at a restaurant, and
he was looking at, you know, airport

charts.

He was, like, doing a lesson
with somebody or something.

And I walked over and said,
hey, it looks like you guys are pilots.

Sam.

Paul.

I'm a pilot, too.

And what do you fly?

Oh, I fly a Citation.

Oh, okay, cool.

Well, if you ever need someone
to sit in the right seat, here's

my number.

You know, like.

And just.

Literally just being nice to
people, being a good human and showing

that you're interested is kind
of how I got all my jobs.

I.

My.

Even my airline jobs, you
know, I met a guy who I.

After college, I worked for
Pinnacle, which was the Northwest

Commuter, which is now called Endeavor.

And I met a guy who had just
started at Pinnacle, and he told

me exactly how to get the interview.

He said, listen, all you have
to do, send your resume, call them.

They won't know where your
resume is, but just call them and

tell them you're interested
and you had sent your resume and

you want them to check on it,
and they'll invite you for an interview,

and then the next day you'll
fly down for an interview and you'll

get hired.

And that's literally what happened.

I sent my resume.

A week later, I called them.

Oh, I can't find your resume.

But can you come down tomorrow?

Sure.

Yeah.

And then getting hired, going
from Pinnacle to, I got hired by

Continental, and then
obviously, we merged with United.

Same thing.

I was friends with a guy I had
met who didn't even work for Continental

or Continental Express, but I
knew that he used to work for Continental

Express.

And so we were friends for two years.

And I finally asked him, kind
of when I was ready to move on from

Pinnacle, I said, hey, do you.

Do you know anyone at
Continental that would maybe help

me get hired?

Because this was 2006, so
Continental was doing really well.

They were hiring kind of like
we're hiring now, you know, 25 people

a week or 40 people a week or whatever.

And that was kind of one of
the main places to go.

And he said, yeah, I think I
know a guy at Continental that might

be able to help you.

So he called that guy, and
then I called that guy, and that

guy.

Called someone else, right?

Yeah.

And, yeah, that guy walked
into the chief pilot's office, and

it turned out that my friend,
who I'd been friends with for two

years used to be the chief
pilot at Continental Express.

It's hilarious.

So he had a great.

I didn't know that.

He never told me that.

That's not why we were
friends, you know.

But you never Know who you're
going to meet along the way.

Never.

And the, the power, not maybe
power, but you know, like the, the

influence that they have.

And so, yeah, like you said,
don't burn any bridges.

Yeah.

And keep all the phone numbers
you can.

And.

And you never know who's going
to be able to help.

That even goes for just like
commuting home on an airline or just

like in any kind of circumstance.

You never.

There's.

I mean, I've met a chief pilot
randomly probably once or twice so

far, which may not sound like
a lot, but it's more than it should

happen.

You know, it's like you
shouldn't just run it.

You think there's so little
amount of che pilots for the airlines.

It's like there's been no aviation.

Like it was at a coffee shop.

It was at whatever.

It's like, oh, I'm a chief pilot.

Like, cool, dude.

Hi, my name is Justin.

Are you hiring right now?

Yeah.

And you never know, like if
you're, like if you work for a regional,

you're trying to get out with
a major.

When you're commuting
somewhere, sitting in the cockpit.

I mean, there's certainly a
chance that the guy sitting there

is the chief pilot or is one
of the main check airman or, or whatever

and has a lot of pull.

And if you have a good
conversation, you're like, that could

be all it takes to.

All it takes.

Get your name top of the
interview list.

So moral of the story, if you
didn't take anything away from this

podcast, is treat everyone
like they're the chief pilot of the

airline that you want to go to
and you'll be okay.

Yeah, that's a great way to
say it.

Yeah.

Just be nice to everyone.

You know, do go above and
beyond in the airline.

So you are at the airline and
I think it's really interesting because

obviously Minnesota all the
way through and through the A's.

The accent isn't really coming
out, I'm not going to lie.

So someone somewhere has told
you how to get or wash out that accent

because I don't get much
Minnesota from you.

But you mentioned Continental
and you said 2006.

And I'm going to put some tune
to together that Delta would have

been big by now out of Minneapolis.

The merger would have gone through.

Why not try to go to Delta?

Did you want to commute?

You wanted to go to Houston or
did Continental have a pretty big

role in Minneapolis at the time?

They did not have a big role
in Minneapolis at the time in 2006,

I think that was before the
Northwest Delta merger.

So, yeah, I think the United
Continental merger and the Northwest

Delta merger, look it up.

We're around the same time.

I want to say 2010.

Was it really dang?

I think so.

Yeah.

I know.

I know it wasn't.

I know I wasn't trying to go
to Delta.

2008.

Everyone I.

Delta, Northwest 2008.

So you're right.

So Northwest at the time
wasn't hiring anyone from Pinnacle.

Basically.

I think I knew one or two
people out of, you know, a lot of

people were leaving Pinnacle,
but only one or two went to Northwest.

And I think from what I
understand, it was the way Northwest

saw it was.

It was like three training events.

Like, they had to train you at
Northwest, but now they had to train

a new captain at Pinnacle and
they had to hire a new first officer

at Pinnacle.

So they.

I think.

I mean, I don't know if that's
true or not, but that's kind of how

I heard that it was a bad idea.

Let's not take any of those
guys or girls, right?

So.

And.

But really, back then, you
know, it wasn't hiring.

Wasn't like it is now.

United wasn't hiring, or maybe
they were hiring, but they're also

doing some furloughing.

And.

And Delta really wasn't on my
radar because I grew up in Minneapolis.

And the only reason
Continental popped on my radar is

because I knew a few people at
Pinnacle that had gone to Continental.

And then suddenly I knew a guy
who used to be the chief pilot for

Continental Express.

And really, back then, you
just went to the first airline to

hire you.

The first major airline to
hire you.

So.

So Continental was the first
major airline to hire me.

And.

And that's where I went,
because getting, you know, getting

an interview with Northwest
was nearly impossible.

So was that the.

Let's say, before the idea of
Continental, before the connections

was the goal Northwest, was
that like the dream, fly out of Minneapolis

and fly for Northwest?

No, it actually wasn't.

The one airline that I kind of
had in the back of my head since

I was, you know, college age
was Southwest.

And So in early 2006, back
then, Southwest required you to have

a 737 type rating.

So a lot of people were just
paying for a 737 type rating and

then immediately getting an
interview with Southwest.

And so I did that.

I went and paid for a 737 type
rating and then got an interview

with Southwest, but did not
get hired.

That was in 2006.

And then in the first part of
2006, and then the later October

or whatever of 2006, I got an interview.

That's when I got the
interview with Continental.

And then.

Yeah, so then I obviously
stayed with Continental and, And

yeah, it's been great.

But I can't know.

Was doing really well back then.

And then the merger with
United only made it better.

And yeah, it's been awesome, man.

It's crazy how everything
happens for a reason, right?

You know, I'm sure there's a
lot of disappointment.

You're like, I just dropped an
absurd amount of money for this type

rating just to get this one job.

And to not get that, it was $7,370.

You'll never forget it.

You need that tattooed on you
somewhere just for how much.

It was just to remind yourself
every day and show it to Southwest.

Be like, see, look, you messed up.

But yeah.

And I'm sure, you know, if I,
If I had been hired by Southwest,

it would have been great too.

For sure.

People that were hired around
the same time, they're.

They're captains and they're.

They're doing great.

Oh, for sure.

You're.

You're.

Maybe your videos would be a
little bit different.

They want to be my layover
life all the way in Italy and Europe

and all those fun places.

But, you know, Omaha and Tulsa
are pretty cool too.

Yeah, there's no shade that wasn't.

I mean, you, you can have a
good layover anywhere, anywhere you

are.

I mean, it helps to be in.

Rome or whatever, but for
sure, that's a goal.

But if you're with the right
people, you can, you can have a good

time pretty much anywhere.

I want to talk a little about
maybe the disappointment that you

went through with not getting
that Southwest job because it sounded

like it was what you wanted, right?

Like it was what you look to.

It's what you work for and you
spent the money to do.

To do that.

And I'm sure everyone said,
hey, you get that type rating, you

know, you're pretty much a
shoe when it's going to happen.

So to not get that job.

Talk about what was going
through your head.

Was it a give up moment?

Was it, I can't do this, I'm
going to be at a regional forever?

Kind of talk about the
emotions you had.

Um, yeah, it was disappointing.

It.

Maybe I had.

I guess it was more of a
learning experience, you know?

Like, I remember there was
multiple interviews throughout the

day.

And I remember one of the last Interviews.

The guy asked me one of the
most basic questions, like, tell

me about a time you messed up
or whatever, you know?

Like, I can't remember what
the question was, but I literally

had no answer.

And I was just like, yeah, I
don't know.

And he's like, just, anything
is fine.

He's like, please.

Please, anything.

I don't know if I was tired or
just running out of steam or whatever,

but it's just like, yeah, I don't.

I don't really have anything
for you.

He's like, all right.

Like, literally just, like,
walked me to the door.

Like, your flight home now.

Like, have a good day, man.

We'll see you later.

So I feel like.

I mean, if there was a reason
I didn't get hired, that was probably

it.

But I don't know.

I guess I just.

I saw it as a learning
experience and for sure and went

on from there.

And I did.

I had done another interview,
I think it was with Midwest Express.

Yeah.

Which was like a.

An airline in Milwaukee that.

They don't exist anymore, but
they flew 717s.

And I.

I also didn't get hired by
them, so.

Yeah.

And I think that was before
Southwest, so I don't know.

I.

I guess I've been used to rejection.

You know, a lot of girls said
no to me in college and high school.

All it took was one, though.

All it took was one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But.

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of
how I saw.

It's like, it only takes one
person to say yes.

And there's.

There's other airlines out
there, definitely.

And I saw other people at
Pinnacle not getting hired places,

and.

And I just, I guess, kind of
assumed that that was part of the.

The process, you know?

And I think it still is, to be
honest with you.

I mean, everyone says how easy
it is to get hired, or especially,

let's say, like, when I was
hired or kind of six months before

that, or even the last two
years, people kind of have the assumption

that it's really easy to get
hired, but it's still pretty easy

for them to say no to you.

You know, it's a.

You have this.

You're still not guaranteed to
get that job.

You still have to perform.

You still have to come up with
an answer for.

Tell me about a time.

Whatever they ask.

Yeah.

So it does happen still.

And I think disappointment and
not getting the job of your dreams

is something you should not.

Maybe not disappointment, but
not getting your dream airline job

is something you should kind
of keep in the back of your mind

of what you would do next.

You know, it's still good to
have that goal, to have the place

you want to go.

But you also need to
understand that just because Delta

said no, United said no, or
American said no, doesn't mean that

one of the other ones won't
say yes and give you a great job.

Because at the end of the day,
we do the same thing.

We fly airplanes, we take
people where they need to go.

The planes may be different,
the layovers may be different, but

you're going to be an airline pilot.

You're going to make
relatively the same amount of money

wherever you go.

Just your cities you live in
and the cities you go to might be

a little different.

Yeah.

And that's not to say that,
you know, United says no.

That's not to say that they
won't call you again in two years.

Yeah.

As a matter of fact, I, after
I got hired by Continental, I re

interviewed with Southwest.

Oh, really?

2008.

And then they said yes, but
they were putting off class dates

because that 2008 was like the
recession time or whatever.

And so they, so they, I had a
job offer, but they put off class

dates until an unknown time.

And, and that's when I
switched airplanes from the 737 at

Continental to the 757 and 767.

And I initially, my thinking
was I just want to go, you know,

grab a couple more type
ratings and before I leave Continental.

And then we merged with United and.

And then I was like.

And once I started flying the
757, 767, I kind of fell in love

with flying all over again,
like, or maybe I fell in love with

travel, you know, and then I
decided I wasn't going to go to Southwest

and I was going to keep flying
to Europe and do awesome layovers.

And plus, you don't want to
give up, you know, by the time Southwest

actually called and offered me
a class date, it was 2011.

So I would have been giving up
five years of seniority at Continental

United.

So did you make it out of that
time without getting furloughed or

anything happening?

Yeah, I got furloughed from
Pinnacle right after September 11th

because I was hired by
Pinnacle in May of 2001.

So I finished training in
August or September.

Great timing.

Or August.

Yeah, September 2001 was my
first month as a line holder or as

a, you know, being a regular.

And so I got furloughed in
October and then I was only furloughed

for one month, which is crazy.

Like, most people get
furloughed for years or, you know,

a decade or whatever, but I
was fortunate.

I got furloughed for one
month, then I was back.

And so September 11th didn't.

I didn't lose a lot of flying
because of that.

But, you know, when you're
furloughed, you don't know if it's

going to be one month or one
year or two.

Years, or, like, do I need to
get a job somewhere?

Like, do I need to learn how
to lay brick?

Like, what's going on?

You know, it's like.

Right?

Yeah, yeah.

So when I got hired by
Continental, there was about 1500

people that got hired
underneath me pretty quickly.

And then I think in 2008, we
furloughed like, 147 people.

And.

But I wasn't part of that.

And then they all came back.

I think in 2010, once we
announced the merger with United.

Nice.

When I thought something was
really interesting, you said that

flying the 7 5, the 7 6, it
kind of brought your love back of

flying.

Would you say that was kind of
just like been beaten down by the

regional life of a lot of
legs, short layovers?

Or would you say it's just
kind of just, you know, a job in

general?

You know, eventually every
once in a while, you're going to

get kind of the stage where
you burnt out and you need to take

that new step to try something else.

I think it was more the.

A lot of legs and short
layovers and, you know, those kind

of struggles that you go
through at a regional.

Because now I'm doing one leg
a day, never deicing, you know, and

you're.

And then you're going to,
like, I went to Bath and went to

the Roman baths and.

And I went to Stonehenge and I
went to Normandy in France.

And you, you know, to start
doing stuff on layovers that weren't

really an option when you were
going to Omaha and Des Moines.

Yeah, but, I mean.

But the flying itself is
awesome, too, because it's, you know,

seven or eight hours of flying
in a regional jet is a lot of work

because you're making two to
four or five landings a day and you're

with the same person, which I
know sounds silly, but, like, when

we take off and go to Europe,
you know, we sit with one guy for

two hours or two and a half
hours, and then we go back and take

a nap, and then we come back
and sit with a different guy for

two and a half hours.

And it makes the flight go by.

An eight hour flight, the same
eight hours of flying.

It makes it go by so fast
because you're like you're constantly

with someone else to talk to
or you're taking a nap or you're

watching a movie or whatever.

And then you get there and
it's now you're in Rome, you know,

and you got all day to explore.

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today's episode to hear from our

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back to today's episode.

Talk about your first trip
from being, you know, being a regional

pilot and then getting on the
757 6, flying across the country

and realizing how different
your life was than what you just

came from.

Were you just shocked?

Like, I can't believe I'm
going to get paid to do this.

Like that wasn't real work.

Yeah.

I think one of the things I
was most worried about when I went

to the 757 and 767 was how am
I going to handle a really long flight?

Yeah.

And then my first, my first
trip was to Paris and I was like,

oh, well, from Newark, it's
only six and a half hours to Paris.

That's.

And you get a nap.

Like that's super easy.

Like that's, you know, it
wasn't, I was like I was getting

on a 18 hour flight, right?

Like six and a half hours.

It's like flying from really
fast DCA or Dulles to lax, you know,

San Francisco or whatever.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah.

And even when I got on the
737, so I started on the 737 at Continental.

And even when I got on that,
you know, it was a little bit different

because we go, you know, we
did even like Houston to Anchorage,

which is a seven hour flight.

So like it was different than
regional flying.

And you know, at Pinnacle, I
basically blew in the upper Midwest

or sometimes, you know, as far
south as Memphis or whatever.

But so just to Be flying to
Phoenix or Los Angeles or Seattle.

Like, that was all new to me.

So that was.

I don't know, it was fun.

And.

And we went to places I'd
never even heard of before, like

Quito, Ecuador, Guayaquil, or,
you know, some cities I didn't even

know existed.

Yeah.

Until I started working for
Continental, when.

I think it's important to talk
about what your lifestyle was like

personally at home, like,
financially, with working at a regional

back then and first year pay
at, say, Continental, because now

they have the idea.

Or most pilots that get hired,
they can make a hundred grand pretty

much.

At a regional.

First year on airline, you can
make 100 grand.

But that wasn't the case, you
know, 16 years ago or even like eight

years ago.

Right.

I want to say it was closer to
like 40 grand.

Is that.

Is that what it was at United
when you got hired, or Continental?

My starting pay at Continental
was $25 an hour, so that equated

to roughly $2,500 a year.

And, you know, I had come from
captain pay at Pinnacle, which at

the time was $80,000 a year,
which is crazy today.

I thought I was living my best
life, and really it was good.

I was living in Minneapolis,
which is kind of where I grew up

and based in Minneapolis.

So what was really hard when I
went to Continental, especially for

my wife, because my wife only
knew we were newly married then.

She only knew living in
Minneapolis, based in Minneapolis,

making a decent living.

And then I went to
Continental, where we had no health

insurance for six months.

Oh, dang.

And we're making $25 an hour,
so $25,000 a year.

And I'm commuting now to
Houston to fly the 737.

So I'm gone a lot more not
making any money, spending money

on hotels in Houston.

And yeah, it was tough.

It.

We had saved up a little bit to.

Because we knew that was like,
that's what you did back then.

You saved up because you knew
your first year at an airline was

going to be hard.

And.

And so it kind of prepared for
it a little bit, but it was still

difficult.

We made a lot of sacrifices.

Yeah.

And, you know, there was days
where there's, you know, $80 in the

checkbook and, like, we all
get paid again for five days.

This isn't good.

Yeah.

Your wife's like, this is
supposed to be your dream job.

Right.

Like, you wanted this.

Right.

Like, this is the pinnacle of
your career.

When we were just at pinnacle
making 80 grand, what's going on

yeah, it's, I feel like I'm in
a similar kind of stage of that right

now because I was a seven year
captain where I was last, you know,

I had the potential to make
pretty good money.

Come to the airline I'm at now
and I'm taking like 100, $120,000

pay cut for the first year.

Flying, gone, more commuting,
short call reserve, long call reserve,

going back and forth.

My wife's like, are we sure
this was a good idea?

I'm like, it's going to get
better, I promise.

Just watch my layover life,
watch his videos.

It's all good.

All right.

It's going to be us one day.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's definitely, it
definitely does get better.

Yeah.

And like I said before, like,
you have to love flying to put up

with a lot of this stuff.

And I don't hear this super
often, but I have heard people say,

oh, I want to get, I want to
become a pilot because it pays well

or because you go cool places
and like you, it's not just that

easy.

You know, wrongly want to be a pilot.

You should really love flying airplanes.

Yeah, no, for sure.

I mean just, yeah, there's a
lot of stuff that goes on and you

can get a lot of money.

I mean, you hear crazy stories
about airline pilots pulling in like

$1 million, but they're also
playing the system and they're gone

all the time.

It's like, I don't want that.

I want to make like lower to
mid salary of what, what that, what

you can make based on how hard
you're working and just be home as

much as possible.

That's the goal right there.

And have cool layovers.

Yeah, I think I told you my
schedule this month.

I had two weeks of vacation
and literally I picked up a trip

this coming weekend just to
supplement our Italy vacation.

But had I not picked up that
trip, I would have been off from

October 5th until November 7th.

That'd be amazing.

With two weeks of vacation,
that's crazy.

You get back in, which is crazy.

Like absolutely crazy in
getting paid very well.

It just takes some seniority, right?

Like you said, like just, just
wait a little bit.

And it does get better.

It gets sweeter.

Learning how to play, kind of
not play the system, but learn the

games that are, you are
allowed to take advantage of to maximize

your days off and pay.

It's almost like a doctorate.

I feel like trying to figure out.

1 PBS 2 How airlines pay, how
you need to follow up with the right

people to make sure.

You get that pay.

So there's going on.

Yeah.

But you know that those years,
those years go by are really fast

and I feel like it was last
week that I was like starting out

at.

Here I am.

You know, it'll be 18 years
this year, which is.

Dude, that's great.

Congratulations.

Yeah, yeah, thank you.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's, it's been a.

I mean, it's been awesome so
far and I.

Hopefully it only gets better.

Yeah, let's hope so.

Yeah.

We don't want to go down no
more down, so we just want to keep

rising up.

All right.

It's time to, to have a solid
stretch of 10 plus years of the good

times.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Have you been, what planes
have you flown for United?

You mentioned, you mentioned
73 to start.

757 6.

Or was it 7 5?

Sorry, I heard a 7 3.

So somewhere in there.

And then have you pretty much
been on the 7576 for most of your

career there?

Most of it, yeah.

I started on the 737, so I
flew that for two and a half years

or three years.

And then I came to 757 and 767
in 2009 and I've been on it since.

So I've got over 10,000 hours
on that airplane and I've been that

for 15 years and three, the
last three years as a captain.

So which one do you like
better, 75 or 7 6?

Well, the 76400 pays the most, so.

So that one.

Yeah, there's actually a big,
there's a big pay difference that

I don't, I don't really know why.

The 767300 is narrow body pay.

Oh, really?

The 767400 is wide body pay.

Oh, that would piss me off.

And there's a, there's a big
gap there.

So all the767,400 trips go
super senior because they, they pay.

I mean, literally on one trip
it's thousands of dollars more, which

is crazy.

So it's crazy what the
airlines can throw in there in those

contracts.

You're like, I know that's not much.

Different from a flying perspective.

I don't know.

The 757 is pretty fun to fly.

Yeah.

So now the one bad thing, I
like it all.

It's just, it's fun.

I just love it all.

What are you going to do when
United comes out and says, hey, we're

retiring the 7576?

They've been around for a
while, so it's not going to be there

for that much longer.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think in theory they're
supposed to retire at least the 757s

in 2030 or 2029.

So that's only five years from now.

Yeah.

Ideally I would maybe go to
the Triple seven as a, as a captain.

Right now I'm like, I'd be
like 99% on the triple seven as a

captain in San Francisco.

So I, I don't want to do that
because I don't, I don't really want

to be on reserve again.

So I'll, I'll hold out on this
airplane until they, probably, until

they kick me off of it.

Yeah.

And then.

But it'd be fun to go out to
San Francisco and do some of the

Australia and Asia flying and,
and just try something new.

It, you know, 15 or 20 years
on one airplane is.

Yeah, probably, probably too long.

Talk a little bit about
commuting because someone that lives

in a city that's not great for
the airline, I would say maybe that's

the wrong way to put it, but
you're never going to live in base.

Living in Minneapolis, working
for United, it's just not going to

happen.

Right.

So has commuting.

Everyone always tells me
airlines are way better when you're

in base.

And I'm sure you can agree to that.

Just makes your life a little
bit easier because you got to plan

a little bit more, you know,
that one trip now you might need

to go the night before you
lose another night at home.

So talk about doing that for a career.

Is it something that you think
a lot of people can just get used

to and it just kind of, you
work it in and you make it work or

do you think a lot of people,
it's kind of a big deterrent in the

airline they go to or even
their quality of life at an airline.

I mean, I think you're going
to have, you're for sure going to

have a better quality of life
and the ability to make more money

if you live where you're based
because then you can pick up, you

know, this one like a one day
trip that pays 400% premium pay or

whatever, you know, like you
have those options to do that.

I like living in Minneapolis.

This is where I grew up and
this is where my family is.

And now it's, you know, it's
where my kids go to school.

And so I don't know that I'm
committed to living here forever,

but for sure, till our kids
are out of high school, and it's.

I don't know, it's never
bothered me enough to seriously consider

moving.

We looked at it for a while,
looked at moving somewhere, but we

like it here.

And I don't know, like,
especially being on the airplane

I'm on, I can fly into Newark
in the morning and go to Europe at

night, come back at noon and
then fly home and be home for dinner

most of the time.

Not all the trips are like that.

Obviously, if I do a domestic
trip, sometimes they start early

or end late, but, you know,
next month I've got 18 days off,

and I'm not like the most
senior person on the air on the fleet.

18, 15 to 18 days off is
pretty standard.

And you're still home a lot,
you know, so.

I don't know.

I don't mind commuting, but a
lot of people do.

Do you feel like when you.

When you mentioned that you
can commute early in the morning

and then you fly a trip later
to go to Europe, do you think that

that takes out of, you know, fatigue?

Not saying you are fatigued,
but does it.

Does it just add an extra toll
on it?

Are you able to kind of relax
in the airline and you don't feel

like you're working?

Does that make sense?

Yeah, I.

I feel like I almost always
take the first flight to Newark,

and I feel like waking up
early to take the first flight sets

me up for, like, a good nap schedule.

There you go.

So, like, I wake up early, I
take an.

If I can, if I'm not in the
jump seat, I sleep on the plane to

Newark.

Then I hang out for a while,
and then I take a nap in the crew

lounge, and then I go fly, and
then I get a nap on the plane to

Europe, and then I get to
Europe and take a nap when I'm there.

So I don't know.

I.

I feel like if I lived.

Say I lived in Newark and I'm
home and doing stuff all day or hanging

out with my kids or whatever,
well, I might not be taking a nap

before I go to the airport.

So I still might be up in the
morning and up all day and then go

to the airport.

So I.

I don't know.

I.

I don't feel like I'm more
fatigued than if I lived in Newark.

That's a good point, because I feel.

Like I'd just be doing
different things.

Yeah, you'd be doing your
Honey to do list.

You know, you'd be building
something or fixing something like,

oh, I gotta go to work.

I gotta fly to Europe.

Geez, take a nap.

Yeah, so that makes a lot of sense.

But I do, I will say, like,
last year we brought our daughter

to Paris and we took Delta
from Minneapolis to Paris just because

we were doing a weekend like a
birthday thing with our daughter

and it was just easier to take
a direct flight from Minneapolis

to Paris.

100%.

A friend of mine happened to
be working the flight, and he lived

two hours away in Wisconsin somewhere.

And.

And I told my wife, I was
like, this is what life would be

like if I was based here.

Like, I'd be home all day, I'd
leave for the airport at 7pm and

I'd go to Paris.

You know, like, there's
certainly something to be said for

that.

You know, I probably lose.

If you were to add up the
hours, I probably lose three days

at home every month just
flying back and forth.

So, you know, it's certainly
not for everybody.

But yeah, it's also, you know,
like I said, if I'd been hired by

Northwest or Delta, then it'd
be a different story, but absolutely.

But yeah, it's all worked out.

We could always.

We could always move, but I
don't know, we'll probably wait till

after the kids are.

Kids are gone.

So.

So let's talk a little bit
about Instagram, YouTube, social

media.

What was.

Because obviously you've been
an airline pilot for 18 years.

Social media has been.

Or not.

You've been working for
Continental United for 18 years.

Social media has been around
for a good bit.

But what, probably two or
three years ago, was it when you

started making videos?

Was it a little bit before that?

I feel like trying to remember
the exact time that I remember seeing

the first.

My labor life.

And I feel like it was around 20.

20, 2021.

What was it about that time?

Did you always want to do this?

Kind of get into a little bit
about just starting my layover life.

Yeah, I feel like I've always been.

That's always been like a
creative side to me.

Like back in.

Back when I was like at
Pinnacle, I had a blog, you know,

because everyone had blogs
back then.

Like, what was it called?

New blogs or.

Yeah.

And I don't know, I've just
always kind of had a creative side

to me.

I started my layer of life,
Instagram, probably, I want to say,

six or seven years ago.

And I started it.

I have another Instagram
account that's like family stuff

in private.

And I started it because when
I came on to the.

Or, you know, I was doing all
These really cool trips.

And my normal Instagram
account was like a picture of my

family and then a picture in
Rome and a picture in Milan and a

picture in Athens and a picture.

And it was like turning into,
like, too much work stuff.

So I just thought I'd separate
the two and have one that's just

for, like, what I do on layovers.

And.

And, you know, it was like
your normal Instagram account.

It wasn't.

You know, Nobody starts with
180,000 followers.

Not at all.

Not at all.

Yeah.

So it, you know, it was years
of just a normal Instagram following.

And then I started my YouTube
channel, and I started that.

I started that, I think five
years ago.

And initially I started it
because I saw all these people going

on layovers to Rome and, you
know, Athens or whatever and literally

just slam clicking, staying in
their hotel room for 24 hours or

48 hours.

And I was like, there's so
much to do here.

Even if you've been here a
hundred times, there's still something

you can find that's unique.

And so I started my YouTube
channel mostly as an encouragement

to other crew members or, you
know, if you're going to Lisbon and

you're looking for something
to do, you could look at my videos

and see what I did and do one
of those things on your layover that

of course, didn't really take
off because they were just travel

videos.

Like, they weren't aviation
related at all.

So if you go back to my first,
probably 40 videos on YouTube, none

of them have anything United
or any.

Any really indication that I'm
a United or a pilot at all.

They're just, suddenly I'm in
Lisbon, and suddenly I'm in Rome

for whatever reason.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

And there's way better travel.

So they were just travel
videos, basically.

So there's.

And there's way better travel
YouTubers than me.

And so once I started putting
in, like, behind the scenes, if you

will, aviation stuff and like,
work stuff, that's when it kind of

picked up some traction and
people started watching it more.

And it's been fun to interact
with people.

And, you know, like, there's a
lot of people from the military have

found use of the videos
because they don't have any idea

what airline flying is like.

And yeah, you know, people who
work at regional airlines see them

and see kind of what their
future looks like.

And.

And then I've run into even
business travelers who just like,

you know, they're like, they
fly all the time, but they don't

really see exactly what pilots
are doing or pilotins are doing and,

and kind of gives them a
perspective as to what our job feel

like.

So it's been fun to just meet
people in the airport and, and see

how those videos are
encouraging them or helping them

plan their trips.

And when you decided to bring
kind of United or I'm a pilot, and

specifically show more, not
like top secret United stuff, but

just like be pretty open with
where you are, where you work, was

there hesitation about that at all?

Because airlines historically
have not really.

I don't want to say they're
not in favor of social media, but

they're just so hesitant to
kind of accept it or really want

their brand out there because
the way they see it, they have 15,000

pilots.

If they say yes to everyone,
then someone's going to tarnish their

name or bring them down, you know.

Right.

So I guess the question is,
what steps did you take when mentioning

United?

Was it more of a I'm going to
do this and ask for forgiveness later?

Was it just.

Hopefully they never see it.

Talk about that.

Yeah, I mean, I never got
official permission to do anything.

When I started my YouTube
channel, I had already kind of been

in contact with the social
media team and the social media team

had started a, like an
influencer camp for internal influencers,

if you will.

So I guess I kind of knew that
they were on board with social media

stuff and I was kind of part
of that group.

So I just started making
videos and obviously being very careful

about like none of my videos
are filmed in the cockpit while we're

flying.

And, and you know, if I, even
if I show a shot looking out the

window, I'm clear to show that
you can see that this is shot from

a passenger seat and not the
cockpit window.

And, and like I'm very careful
about recording and, and, and, and

now I feel like enough people
kind of know who know what I do that.

Like I'm not even going to
record a video in the cockpit because

the guy next to me will see
that or whatever, you know, Like,

I don't want to be a bad
example of what social media is.

So.

Yeah.

But yeah, really, I never
really got official permission.

That just kind of turned into
they like what I'm doing.

And now I work pretty closely
with a United social media team,

so I.

Was gonna say it seems like
they kind of accepted it because

you just did the, the video
with them.

Whereas I think it's a
commercial I haven't got a chance

to watch yet.

But I saw the Commercial.

I believe you guys call them
1k flyers or a million miles.

I think you gave something to
someone with a, that flew an astronomical

amount of miles with you guys.

So they definitely have seemed
to have accepted it.

And it seems like United, out
of all the airlines maybe is currently.

This could always change, right?

Is the most social media
friendly, I would say.

Or maybe it just seems like
most United.

Most pilot influencers see
happen to be United pilots.

I don't know, I haven't
figured that.

Out yet, but I'm not sure
which one is which.

Yeah, the social media team
does a great job handling everything

and they are very encouraging of.

I mean, they put on a social
media camp every year and this past

year, you know, there's like
100 or 120 influencers from pilots,

flight attendants, gate
agents, ramp agents, everyone's who,

you know, has a presence on
Instagram or social media gets to

go to this camp and learn more
about photography tips and how to

make better TikToks and you
know, like that kind of stuff.

And remember, say positive
things about the brand.

Only positive things.

Yeah, yeah.

And there is that too.

Like you can't get on there and.

Rip into passengers or Scott
Kirby should do this.

Yeah, no, bad idea, right?

I don't know.

I'm a pretty positive person
as it is tonight.

It's never been a struggle to like.

But, you know, I.

We all have bad days.

I'm not.

But I don't want to go on
Instagram and see your bad day.

I'm going there to be entertained.

So I'm not going to put my
worst days on Instagram.

So I was gonna ask, has there
been a day where you're like, you

know, you're setting up the
video, you set the phone up and you're

doing whatever it is you do
and you just kind of take a pause

and you look at, you're like,
I don't feel like doing this today.

Or has it been kind of.

Are you able to turn it on and
you know, be my layover life right

then and there?

I mean, I feel like there are
times when I like have to turn it

on.

And there's other times, like
in one of my last videos, I jumped

off a cliff in Switzerland.

And you know, when you're
doing that kind of stuff, you're

just on awesome, you know?

Yeah, no, for sure.

There's days where it's like,
I know I want to record a video on

this trip, but I'm not really
in the mood today.

And I have found that I can,
if I have a lot of B roll footage,

I can make up for lack of
personality on camera with B roll

and voiceover later in the edit.

And so, you know, I'm not on
for an entire three day trip of on

camera action.

You know, is it something that
you invite other people to come with

you all the time when you're
on camera or do you try to do all

those on your own and not.

The reason I ask that is
because for, for me personally and

I think a lot of other people,
it's the idea of being on camera

out in public, you know, like
holding a camera up, talking to it,

or doing like a cool
transition or going up to a rock

and, you know, sitting on it,
looking at, talking to people.

It can be intimidating putting
yourself out there.

What does this person think of me?

What is this, you know, what
is my number one, my lead flight

attendant going to think?

Or what's the fo gonna.

You know, you just kind of,
you think about your head when in

reality they don't care at all.

You know, they're just like,
oh, it's cool, he's got a YouTube

channel.

But in your mind you're like,
oh my gosh, everyone's looking at

me looking like that stuff.

So what are you playing with?

It's still, it still takes a
lot to like walk through the airport

and talk to the camera.

Yeah, especially I don't do
that in uniform very or hardly ever.

Yeah, but, but if you're in a
quiet airport talking to a camera,

you feel like everyone is
looking at you like, and maybe they

are, and that's fine.

I, I've kind of come to the
point where I was like, I don't care.

They don't know that I've got
this YouTube channel.

Or maybe they do now and it
doesn't matter.

They'll see it, they'll laugh
at me.

And that's fine.

But I know what I'm coming.

I know what I'm putting
together here, and I know it's going

to be awesome in the end.

But as far as recording with
other crew members, obviously I always

ask a video I'm editing right now.

The first officer was with me
throughout the day and the little

adventure we went on, but he
didn't really want to be on camera,

which is totally fine.

And that actually was kind of
helpful because then he held the

camera for me and I was, he
was able to like film me doing stuff.

You're my videographer.

Cool.

You don't want to be in it.

Here you go, you just got a
new job.

Yeah, I'll buy dinner.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

But I ask, you know, I'll ask
flight attendants if they're okay

obviously being on camera, and
if they're not, that's totally fine.

They can stand behind the camera.

Like, if I'm like, in my.

The video I'm editing now, I
filmed part of our briefing, and

oftentimes I'll do like a real
briefing, and then I'll be like,

can I just sit here and talk
with you guys and record that?

Like, it doesn't sound an
official briefing.

It's just like, to simulate a briefing.

We'Re going to go to the
airport and we're going to eat Qdoba

and then we're going to do this.

But it looks really important.

Yeah, yeah.

That way I'm not distracted
when I'm, yeah.

Smart.

I, like, record a video.

But, yeah, I mean, I try to
make it fun and, and people are either

receptive to it or not.

And now, like, enough people
follow me that they show up and they

kind of know that I have a
YouTube channel or know I have an

Instagram account.

And.

And if I'm going on a trip
where I'm planning on doing a video,

I'll usually send out an email
ahead of time and just say, hey,

just so you know, I might be
recording YouTube video.

And.

Yeah.

How would you say it's
received by pilots?

Because I would say a lot of
times I've seen pilots hate on social

media influencers.

It's just like, natural.

Right.

They think of it as cringe,
but I think deep down everyone kind

of wants to have that opportunity.

Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know.

Some people may not want to,
but how have you seen this is the

pilot community, especially
the United pilots.

Do you think they've kind of
rallied behind it?

Do you think they like it?

Do you think some people don't
like it?

A mix of them or what would
you say?

I'm sure there's a lot of
people who don't like it.

I don't ever go on message
boards or anything, so I don't see

all the hate or whatever.

But yeah, I'm sure some people
don't like it.

And that's fine.

If it's.

If you don't like it, then
it's not for you.

Like, yeah, I'm not making
this for every United pilot.

I'm making it for the student
pilots and the travelers, the regional

pilots who are needing
inspiration to, like, keep showing

up to work and keep applying
to United or whoever.

And if it's, you know, some 64
year old crusty pilot who doesn't

get YouTube or social media,
that's fine.

That that's not for him.

Then if he sees it and hates
on it, then whatever.

It doesn't really bother me
too much.

But it took me a while to get
to that point where I could just

blow that off and.

But just realizing that my
videos aren't for everybody and the

people they're not for who see
them are probably gonna, you know,

hate on it a little bit.

Yeah.

Be the loudest usually too.

Yeah, yeah.

But I've, you know, I will say
I've never had anyone come up to

me in person and say that they
hate my videos.

I don't like your videos.

Yeah.

Everyone.

You know, I've had a few first
officers say that my videos are the

reason they want to work for
United and.

Which is pretty cool.

Yeah, that's awesome.

So it's those kind of stories
and those kind of people I fly with

that make it worth doing what
I'm doing.

Yeah, I think it's great for
airlines to have an ambassador like

that.

I think there's something
between it's a fine line like you

don't want it to be company
sponsored or company pushed or have

the feeling of it being very corporate.

But if you can find somehow an
organic way to have someone show

what it's like to work, how
they're happy at their job, how they

think their airline's the
best, all that kind of stuff, and

just be happy and show the
cool things to do.

I think it's an amazing
recruiting tool and it can help separate

that airline from one or the other.

Now there's obviously the
dangers of picking the wrong person

or having one rogue video go
out there that could hurt the airline.

But I think overall it's
definitely worth it.

I think what you've done has
helped United, along with other influencers

that are United, just put
their name brand ahead of someone

else.

You know, if you, if it comes
down to it, you're looking at the

applications and which one you
want to hit.

Submit first to maybe like,
oh, Paul, okay, United, that's cool.

Let me submit that one first.

And you get, you know, it's
just, just how it works in your brain.

So I think all the airlines,
if they're listening to this, they

should kind of take note,
maybe try to find their own influencer

on YouTube or whatever it is.

Not, not promoting myself.

I don't really want to be a
YouTube influencer.

I mean, it'd be kind of cool,
but I can't look at myself in the

camera yet.

I haven't gotten that point in
my career.

But I think it's important,
and I think you've done a good job.

The videos are cool, and I
hope you continue doing them.

I got a little bit more for
you, and then we'll go.

One is going to be.

Actually, I'll ask this
question first because I got to load

everything up.

I actually just got called in
for a trip a little bit ago, so I

have to go to Newark for some reason.

Oh, no kidding?

Yeah.

Tomorrow, let's see.

I'm going to Newark.

I'm on the 7:3 domestic side,
so not great.

But Newark, DFW to Austin,
Austin, DFW to CMH, then Columbus

back to Newark.

So I need to get my
consolidation in, and I'm desperately

in need of hours, so I can't
say no to any trips right now.

But my phone rang about 20
minutes ago.

I was like, what's this take?

Okay, sorry.

Oh, no.

I went to school in Columbus,
so I went to Ohio State, so it'll

be good for me to go back to my.

My college town.

Oh, yeah, that'd be cool.

Anyways, the question I have
for you first right now is obviously

you have a lot of people that
kind of watch your videos.

You've probably had the
opportunity to kind of tell them

this advice.

But what are three tips you
give someone, whether they have one

hour, a hundred hours, a
thousand hours, or they want your

career, they want your
lifesty, they want your YouTube channel,

everything.

What kind of advice would you
give to them?

And if you can, three tips
specifically for that.

Yeah.

Well, number one would be
don't give up.

It.

You know, my wife and I both
trained jiu jitsu, and it's one of

those things that, like, it's
hard all the time.

Like, I'm always getting beat up.

You feel like you're never progressing.

Um, and.

But what you don't see is,
like, the people on either side of

you are progressing relatively
at the same rate that you are.

And just don't, don't give up.

Because really, in the.

In the end, like, you're
flying an airplane and it's awesome.

And like, if you love flying
airplanes, whether you're flying

a Cessna or a regional jet or
a triple seven, it's all awesome.

It's like, it's so fun.

And the fact that you get to
fly airplanes for a living, either,

you know, now or in the
future, it's like, it's the best.

Agreed.

Um, I don't know if that was
one tip or two tips or what, but.

Yeah, just don't give up.

It's, you know, any.

Anything that's worth doing is
going to be hard.

Like, you know, for me, like
trying to get to a black belt, I

mean, that's probably a decade
away from me, but it's going to be

worth it when I get there.

And same thing, being an
airline pilot, like, becoming an

airline pilot is hard and
there's going to be some sacrifices

and struggles and for sure,
but anything that's worth doing is

going to take that.

So just don't give up.

I love it.

I mean, that's the general
overall and everything in life.

Right?

Just don't give up.

And I've seen it with, I mean,
a lot of people be like, how'd you

create a podcast?

How.

How have you gotten a good podcast?

How do you get sponsors?

And honestly, you might agree
to this as well.

I think the number one thing
is just continually posting content,

just being consistent.

It's not going to happen overnight.

Like you said, you might have
had 40 videos of travel sty, videos

that maybe didn't really do
anything, or maybe they did, I don't

know.

But I'm just kind of thinking.

But just being consistent and
being there and continually posting

does wonders for your career
or what you want.

It's the people that try to do
it, they do it for a month.

They don't get any views, they
don't get any sponsorships.

Like, this is stupid.

I can't do it.

It's like, that's how it works.

I didn't get paid, I didn't
get any sponsors, make any money

off this podcast for the first
five years.

I did it.

It isn't until recently that
I've started getting money, getting

sponsors.

So it's not overnight.

It's hard work and you gotta
continually do it.

And that's how everything is,
I would say.

And you're learning along the
way, like, yeah, you're getting a

little bit better with every video.

Like, for me, anyway, with
your podcast, like, you know, I try

to learn something new in
every video, like a new graphic,

a new edit, a new transition
or whatever.

I try to learn just to be a
little bit better or get a different

camera and learn how to use a
new camera or a new drone or whatever.

And the same thing at Jiu Jitsu.

Like, I just try to learn a
little bit every day.

And when you go flying you
just try to learn a little bit.

You don't have to take in the
whole lesson.

Just take in a couple minutes
of it and be better at that.

Totally agree.

And I was going to do a rapid
fire section, but my phone, for some

reason I still use Evernote
and it locks me out whenever I use

a different device.

So I need a switch.

We'll do it again later.

I'll call you up for five
minutes and we'll do it again later.

But I wanted to ask you the
last question.

What do you bring with you?

What's like a recorder?

Do you have just like a
massive third bag with cameras?

On cameras.

On cameras.

Do you have like a
professional Sony?

And then you have like an OSMO
Pocket or your iPhone?

Like, what are you bringing to
record with?

Right.

Yeah.

My standard.

If I'm recording a YouTube
video, my standard setup will be

I have a Sony ZV1 mark 2,
which is A.

A small point and shoot.

I've got a road mic that I put
on top of it, like a shotgun mic.

And then I have a DJI Mini 3
Pro drone.

And that having a drone really
helps you set the scene for different

transitions and set the scene
for where you are.

Plus, they're fun to fly.

And then I'll use my iPhone
for a lot of things.

I've got a little suction cup thing.

I can put it on a window.

Cool.

And walk.

Do a walking past shot or whatever.

Or like sitting on the
airplane seat, you can suction it

to the screen in front of you.

Yeah.

And then usually I have a
GoPro or an Insta360.

If I'm doing any sort of
underwater action type shots, I'll

make sure I have one of those
with me.

So, yeah.

So the Sony ZV1 Mark 2, a DJI
drone, and then my iPhone and a GoPro

or something like that.

So what do you do about flying?

That's kind of the basic setup.

What do you do about flying a
drone in a different country?

Is a lot of, I'm guessing, you
know, now the rules and local laws,

but has it been a lot of just.

Just Googling, figuring out,
like, how do I fly a drone here?

Can I fly a drone here?

Or is it just we'll go fly if
I get arrested, you know, I'll just

blame it on the first officer.

It's his drone.

I know in London and Paris,
like, that's a pretty strict drone,

no drone zone.

Um, I'll.

I'll try to Google a little bit.

Yeah.

What the rules are.

And look up the DJI app to see.

But usually the DJI thing, if
you're not allowed to fly there,

it won't let you take off.

Oh, cool.

Yeah, that's good.

I don't know.

I figure if it.

If the drone lets me take off.

We'Re good to go.

Has customs ever, you know,
like, London customs, have they opened

up and like, dude, what are
you doing?

Doing?

Are you an influencer?

Like, why do you got a drone here?

Why you got these cameras?

What are you doing, man?

No, it's actually never, ever
come up.

No one's ever looked at, you
know, four cameras in my bag and

asked anything about it.

Well, I love it.

Well, hey, Paul, thank you so
much for today, man.

It's been fun talking with you.

I hope you have a great rest
of your time off.

Just living your dream.

So thanks for coming on.

This podcast will probably
come out in a week.

All I need from you is just a
picture, some videos that you want

to send me for some promo, and
that'll be it.

Sure, sounds great.

All right, man.

Well, I appreciate it.

We'll do it.

Thanks, dude.

Yeah, man, we'll have a good.

I'll hold down Newark for you tomorrow.

Yeah, have a good trip.

See you, man.

AV Nation, that's a wrap on
today's episode.

Thank you so much for
listening to the podcast.

Shout out to all the sponsors.

I really appreciate everything
you all do for the Pilot to Pilot

podcast and it is.

Can't do this without you.

Let's just be honest.

But AV Nation, I'm so thankful.

Paul, I appreciate you coming
to the podcast.

It's great to hear your story.

It was great to talk about
regional life, about flying for Continental,

making 25 an hour at a major airline.

I don't think anyone right now
that's listening can comprehend what

that would be like.

Everyone needs to make at
least 100k and if they don't, they

feel like they're not doing
well in life.

So it wasn't that long ago
when that wasn't a possibility at

an airline.

So it's something that we
always just got to keep in our brain,

keep in our mind of what has
happened in the past and how, one,

it can come back.

And two, we should be super
thankful for what we have in this.

This awesome industry that we
all call our own.

So, AV Nation, I hope you're
having a great day.

And as always, happy flying
Pilot, the.

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