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The Faculty Chronicles (TFC) podcast, sponsored by the Touro Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning (CETL), is about building community, connection, and conversation. It will bring to life the stories behind the great works of Touro faculty, across disciplines in all our schools, focusing on classroom innovation in teaching and learning, science, business, medicine, education, wellness and more.
00;00;01;06 - 00;00;37;19
Gena
Hello and welcome to The Faculty Chronicles, TFC, a podcast sponsored by the Touro Center on Excellence in Teaching and Learning and the Office of the Provost. Your TFC podcast hosts Army Professor Gina Bardwell and Dr. Elizabeth Enni. Across academic disciplines, Touro faculty are producing great work, and the Faculty Chronicles wants you to hear all about it. TFC Podcasts will highlight faculty chatting about their favorite project in research, teaching, learning, science, medicine, technology and so much more.
00;00;38;00 - 00;00;54;29
Gena
So let's get busy building community connection and continuous conversation to provide our next faculty chronicle. Guest is on deck waiting to chat.
00;00;57;14 - 00;01;25;24
Gena
Hello, I'm Professor Jena Bardwell, your host, today on the Faculty Chronicles podcast sponsored by the Center of Excellence in Teaching and Learning and the Office of the Provost. Today I'm interviewing our special faculty Chronicles guest, Dr. Michael Lu. Dr. Lu is an assistant dean of Clinical and Professional Affairs and an associate professor in the Department of Pharmacy Practice.
00;01;26;14 - 00;02;00;21
Gena
Dr. Lu has extensive experience as a front line clinical pharmacist on all aspects of adult critical care, medicine and health system pharmacy administration. His passion and expertise also encompasses teaching scholarly activities and research. During his tenure at Yale, Dr. Lu successfully led an establishment of new pharmacy services. These services achieved high level metrics shown to improve client safety and a reduction in patient readmissions.
00;02;01;02 - 00;02;37;26
Gena
Some of Dr. Lou's Awards Honors and Education include receiving the 2022 Touro University Presidential Faculty Excellence Award for Exemplary Service. In 2021, he earned his MBA from the University of Nebraska in Lincoln. In 2020, Dr. Lu was bestowed the presidential citation Society of Critical Care, Medicine, Honor and so many other awards. Too numerous to say here. Today, he will share his experience tackling vaccine hesitancy in communities of color.
00;02;38;12 - 00;03;01;18
Gena
He also shares his thoughts on the future of community medicine. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Lu, and for sharing your expertise with our audience. So, Dr. Liu, when you were growing up, were you interested in the medical profession? Was pharmaceutical medicine even on your radar anywhere in terms of what you wanted to pursue?
00;03;02;24 - 00;03;24;00
Michael
Yes. Gena, I think that's a very good question for all of us. From where this journey begin, in that essence. In high school, I actually didn't know what I wanted to be. It wasn't until the first semester of college where interest in pharmacy sparked. And the reason why is Gina is how accessible and patient the pharmacies are.
00;03;24;14 - 00;03;47;22
Michael
If I want to get medication questions asked or even healthcare related questions asked, calling the physician's office not get very far. Whereas in the community pharmacy, not only are you able to ask the question that you have, but also they take their time out to provide resources and options. Even before the Internet was crucial and even after the Internet, you got so much information now.
00;03;47;22 - 00;04;09;08
Michael
How would you get the best, most reliable, trusted information? And that is really from the pharmacy. What is pharmacist, a technician and so forth. Another key thing is with pharmacy is that the human connection is there is not a person just rushing you in and out. That person really cares about you before, during and after service.
00;04;09;08 - 00;04;19;03
Michael
You care. So to me, that is when I got into the pharmacy, really the first semester, when I saw that, it really sparked my interest and excitement to join in on the profession there.
00;04;19;24 - 00;04;40;25
Gena
We are really spending time with people who have questions that they don't have answers to. I remember going to the pharmacy at CVS and asking a question, and the pharmacist came from behind the counter, walked down the aisle with me, picked up two different medicines, and started to explain what was on the back. I was in shock. It was such a wonderful moment.
00;04;40;25 - 00;04;52;28
Gena
So I absolutely understand what you're saying there. So how long did it take to structure and rollout such a comprehensive immunization effort and create the messaging surrounding it?
00;04;53;28 - 00;05;17;00
Michael
Because we had to mobilize rapidly, but the same time we wanted to make sure it was well designed before we execute. It took a few weeks before we rolled out the immunization and public health effort. One of the key things we set to us before we launched the effort is what will differentiate us from everyone else, from the chain pharmacy to independent pharmacy.
00;05;17;17 - 00;05;39;04
Michael
And one of the things we're going to go over and hopefully discuss further is really how, again, the accessibility of the pharmacy. We're not just going to hang out at Touro College pharmacy and get vaccines. We will drive out there. What it is, Long Island, upstate New York, even New Jersey, just to ensure you get what you want. We will come to you, not the other way around.
00;05;39;04 - 00;06;05;17
Michael
And also our customer base. We could easily say, Oh, let's just serve Touro University and the colleges of Touro. We didn't just do that. We served the young. We went to high schools. We went to a campsite to give COVID vaccine screening. Even the elderly population as well. We went to some of the elderly’s home to actually give them the vaccine and screening does what differentiates us from the other services provided by chain pharmacies and other pharmacies.
00;06;06;19 - 00;06;13;12
Gena
How might institutions be better prepared? Should we face another community health Crisis?
00;06;13;16 - 00;06;29;06
Michael
In order for an institution to better prepare for a health crisis, which is going to happen, is going to require sooner or later is going to rain. One of the Key things is back to that sensibility. All of us, even on this recording, we're using the Internet. We say oh wow Internet, such a great thing. Everyone should have it.
00;06;29;06 - 00;06;49;05
Michael
But unfortunately, truth is not everyone has access to the Internet. During the COVID pandemic, the early phases does remote learning, remote ordering, remote everyday avenue most remote and unfortunate. Not everyone has that. There was a lot of news article during that time, even by the mayor of New York City, saying that the internet is not a luxury, is a necessity.
00;06;49;05 - 00;06;59;27
Michael
And I think during the pandemic it proves that point. So in order to better face that, we need to start with that build better infrastructure and access for everyone in the New York City metropolitan area.
00;07;00;26 - 00;07;25;08
Gena
I agree. And your team have done tremendous work on on tackling vaccine hesitancy. You use this, I guess what you would call a multi-pronged approach. Vaccine ambassadors, motivational interviews, on and on. So what do you think worked the best? I mean, what was the best approach in in improving vaccine hesitancy in communities of color?
00;07;26;06 - 00;07;48;25
Michael
You touch upon a great point, Gina. The Vaccine Ambassadors interview is that information is the best way to go. And we have done that not through necessarily just ourselves, but we use influencers of that community, whether that is musicians, artists, clergy mean we need to explain to them, Look, we're out here for your community's good. We're not here for anything.
00;07;48;25 - 00;08;08;26
Michael
There's no ulterior motive. We're here to help you and everyone else because we are part of the community at large in New York City. If I walk down to X community and they see me with a lab coat or with a suit on, there's a good probability they won't listen to me or trust me. And understandably so. Based on everything that they've experience.
00;08;09;19 - 00;08;33;13
Michael
So therefore, I need to convey that message to their influencers where they say, You know, I trust this person more. So again, nothing offensive is just the way history dictated the relationship to me. And if we have that influencer and fortunately we do have and they see the kindness and truth fullness of our heart, that we are genuinely there to help the community, they will help convey the message for us.
00;08;33;13 - 00;08;39;00
Michael
And ultimately clients will come in and hopefully get what they want. So that was very helpful.
00;08;39;19 - 00;08;51;10
Gena
To the community influencers. So it's the a clergy person or someone that they know, a community leader or someone that they see as a person they can trust.
00;08;52;03 - 00;09;09;29
Michael
Absolutely. And we have oral employees of all sorts of race color, religion, you name it, that is associate with the community around the college area or any areas topical issues up with. They trust them. And I think it's okay for them to convey the message for us. Absolutely.
00;09;10;07 - 00;09;15;04
Gena
So tell us about the grant you received for doing this community vaccine project.
00;09;16;04 - 00;09;20;07
Michael
Yeah. So Gina, you know, not to brown nose, essentially, but go ahead.
00;09;20;09 - 00;09;21;02
Gena
Go right ahead.
00;09;21;16 - 00;09;42;23
Michael
A little around those things. Okay. But the truth is, the total university really helps support this vaccine and public health project. If I were to name a couple people instrumental from the university, you know, Rabbi Prep to really pull all the resources we need. Wanda Hernandez ensured our shipment was up to par. You know, it's amazing how efficient she is in getting things done.
00;09;43;12 - 00;10;11;17
Michael
Provost Amar, being a lab director designee and support Dean started helping us in giving us the immunization agreement in order for us to provide vaccines at will and our Dean Cohen. So really, those are the individuals does really supportive and how were they supportive, really, to fulfill the university's mission and honor to be to provide them that only 2% of the university in mission is in the service of knowledge, compassion and social justice.
00;10;12;11 - 00;10;16;16
Michael
And I think through all these public health efforts, we have achieved that through their support.
00;10;16;26 - 00;10;29;28
Gena
Wow. That's something because it really does get at the heart of everything. That accessibility piece you have talked about so far. It's as if Turell heard the call and came up with the solution.
00;10;30;14 - 00;10;31;09
Michael
Yeah, exactly.
00;10;31;26 - 00;10;42;29
Gena
So now I read that you're scheduled to do some kind of a progress report this year. So what do you think is working or has worked, and are there still some challenges?
00;10;43;29 - 00;11;04;10
Michael
Yeah. So one of the key challenges and fortunately there is a solution to it and implement is sustainability going to all these sites. Sounds easy, right? You know, going to Long Island, upstate New York, all over the five boroughs, It's not just a physical toll is Audie CORNISH And plan, Make sure the site is ready. You got to make sure the supplies go there and back.
00;11;04;27 - 00;11;31;24
Michael
How about the sign up sheet? And, you know, by appointment, it's accessible to every one of your walk. And how do you do a lot of these logistics? It does take a lot of coordination to do this. And this is sustainable on top of what you're already doing. The solution to it and the kind of lesson learn is make sure to get not just your residents and fellows who have graduated from their family school, but also leverage your interns and your students.
00;11;31;24 - 00;11;52;05
Michael
Give them the experience to be on the field, Take everything that they've learned in class and actually apply in the classroom. In a way, you're giving them the experience, right? But you're also diluting the work and giving them lining your own burden, so to speak, and giving them the workload. That way everyone can learn and grow and make a big difference in their life.
00;11;52;05 - 00;11;55;18
Michael
So I think that is the way we can handle sustainability work. Well.
00;11;56;10 - 00;12;16;07
Gena
That's quite a project, and yet it immerses everyone together. Real leadership, as you described before, is the first piece to solving the problem and then getting your students and like you said, internships and boots on the ground. It sounds like that is is really a good way to solve some of those issues.
00;12;16;24 - 00;12;17;08
Michael
Correct?
00;12;17;15 - 00;12;34;26
Gena
So when you hear the metrics you and your team were able to produce like 1589 COVID doses administered and or 7316 screening specimens processed, what do you think? How does that make you feel?
00;12;36;01 - 00;12;56;27
Michael
Gina These numbers are were impressive in terms of quantity. I think most were in corners to highlight the events that we held. For example, we could have a minister, all of those doses and screening at the our pharmacy and then that's it. We didn't just do it. We went beyond our scope again, kind of what we mentioned earlier, all over the metropolitan area, hard to reach places.
00;12;56;27 - 00;13;17;07
Michael
We went to places where we've missed maybe five or six doses. However, we're not going to let those patients down, just be clients, not just because only a few people want it doesn't mean we shut down the event. We have to be there for those individuals. So the event quantity and the event location and venues to me are more important than just the numbers themselves.
00;13;18;22 - 00;13;27;28
Gena
But we talk a little bit before about the supply chain. How did that work, the supply chain during this time? Were there any constraints or do you think it went pretty well?
00;13;28;12 - 00;13;49;25
Michael
Yeah, the supply strain. I think that all of us have been affected, right? That toilet paper fiasco would be a good example of how this works. Yeah, we had an issue with supply chain, fortunately able to resolve it quickly hits everyone. Everyone knows this one. The White House, you know, they were they were having they were offering free COVID testing.
00;13;49;26 - 00;14;12;02
Michael
I do think all your sign up to this link and we'll mail you a COVID screening kit. It's great that the White House did that because they pull all these COVID kits to distribute the issue is, while they pull these kids from health care professionals, including our college, so then our purchases like, Hey, Dr. Lew, we're we're running low on this product because the White House pretty much took it.
00;14;12;19 - 00;14;36;06
Michael
Here's some alternative products. The alternative products we want a mixture, the quality, the efficacy, and also operational is just as good. If not better, than what the White House has. Fortunately, using again, our resources, knowledge and also our purchaser, we're able to get those fairly squared. And then when we executed around that time, there was no issue, no one felt a significant impact from it at all.
00;14;37;01 - 00;14;56;27
Gena
So how did you now in this really compressed and intensified time period, what therapies were working? I read you wrote about some of the immunosuppressive therapies, the monoclonal antibodies and the antiviral therapies. How did you know what to administer, what to use?
00;14;57;28 - 00;15;22;01
Michael
I think this is were a great point in the sense that there's a lot of information out there. And that's one reason why I love this podcast, that it gets to the correct information out there to everyone and everyone. So let's say the CDC or Dr. Fauci right from the White House saying, oh, we recommend this, and then a month later all know, we recommend that although this change from ten days to five days, isolation and so on.
00;15;22;01 - 00;15;45;14
Michael
So for all this constant change in information, they're not changing information because they're making things up left and right is call data is constantly coming out. There's a lot of research and information occurring rapidly during that phase. And what we do is we actually use our resources for an April through college fund as a drug information center. We have them pile to the literature.
00;15;45;14 - 00;16;13;05
Michael
We also have our expert faculty doing the literature research say, okay, Dr. X, you review that article, Doctor Y, you review to our review this one. Let's all get gathered together and not just comb through it, but also list out what were some key findings, what worked, what are some of the limitations of that information? And last but not least, how do we take what we discuss as a group and to drug information?
00;16;13;09 - 00;16;35;01
Michael
How do we distribute this to the public without being swayed one or the other? Just be like, okay, public deal. This is a study summary they summarize, but here are some limitations to be considered. That way they don't think like, Oh, we know we're pushing this agenda. No, this is the honest interpretation of the facts. Whatever decision you make is up to you as an individual.
00;16;35;01 - 00;16;43;22
Michael
We respect your decision making and I think taking all of these literature and making it digestible for the public is extremely crucial, and that's how we handle that.
00;16;44;20 - 00;17;09;09
Gena
I listened to as many of the workshops and seminars that the medical school and the pharmaceutical school had during the pandemic from 2020. All the way through, because you all were so informative and so on top of that, and I really appreciated it. So that was it's really good to know that Touro is a leader in this kind of work going forward.
00;17;09;09 - 00;17;14;27
Gena
How about the delivery of services and care improve under catastrophic conditions?
00;17;15;18 - 00;17;44;20
Michael
Yeah, so know we all have emergency plans, right? Plan B, always. Right. Whether that's professionally, personally, I'll look at it a step further and that is that we need to have lifelong learning and training, obviously of everyone but of health care professionals. Here's a perfect example would actually helped out in summer of 2022, there was a outbreak of monkeypox, and monkeypox is not a traditional therapy that most health care professionals worry about because it's so rare.
00;17;45;04 - 00;18;32;00
Michael
It didn't happen commonly. Maybe the COVID pandemic and or the health care professionals and to a less nipped in the bud quickly before it becomes a wildfire here. So the training and the application of the vaccine and the treatment surrounding monkeypox was implemented pretty quickly. And Fortune, the cases among people was arrested quite quickly. So I think having that COVID pandemic and knowing how important getting that information, training and promise of implementing plan, I think having that was very helpful in dealing with emergency crises such as monkeypox and hopefully not we don't get anymore, hopefully, but it will rain and that will provide us again the springboard of how to handle those things.
00;18;33;03 - 00;18;36;15
Gena
So what are your hopes for the future of community medicine?
00;18;37;04 - 00;19;01;21
Michael
So, Jena, you and I and everyone else, our children, our cousins, everyone, we should never forget about this pandemic. Always remember how it impacted you as a person, your family members, friends and so forth. And even you weren't impacted by the actual infection itself. Everyone, including yourself, have been impacted in some way, socioeconomically, emotionally. So don't forget about the pandemic.
00;19;02;16 - 00;19;27;06
Michael
Don't forget about what worked for you during that time with things that we take for granted. Family members that really cares about you. Resources like the Internet. You see how useful that was? We were all able to remote work from most of us. We were able to isolate, work usefully. We need to be open minded towards any new changes because what worked for us back then may not work for us anymore.
00;19;27;07 - 00;19;47;00
Michael
The converse train, I mean, it's no longer the same as we all know. That's just an example of that. And last but not least, we're all in this together. Everybody in this entire planet, try to keep that in mind. Whether that's masking vaccinating, I mean, we all can have opinions about it and we're you're we're all entitled to just remember that we're all in this together.
00;19;47;00 - 00;19;51;01
Michael
We only have one to try to best we can to work together as much as possible.
00;19;51;21 - 00;20;14;15
Gena
Such wise words. So now we're coming to the end of the podcast and I have a final question for you. So if you could have dinner with any person, past or present, who has influenced your best practices today, you know your philosophy, who that person be and why.
00;20;14;15 - 00;20;49;18
Michael
That's a lovely question. I got to say. I would say for the dinner over have to be my wife because no matter how great of a public health service you offer, no matter how much you think you can, you know, stand on top of the world and carry the boulder, you cannot do it yourself. There's no way does it absolutely possible just to illustrate that point, during the pandemic, when we're running around offering these services, it's a lot of emotional and physical toll going to places, hearing all these things, being there for your clients, whether that's during the event or even after the event.
00;20;49;18 - 00;21;08;03
Michael
You know, those CDC cards, remember those vaccine cards? Well, people have lost them. You don't just go, hey, you know, I give it to you. See you later. It's more like, okay, Naga, mail your new one or give you proof or something afterwards happen. You got to follow through with that. And what my wife showed to me is that you want to offer the best service possible.
00;21;08;03 - 00;21;31;05
Michael
Also be there for declines. Okay. And what I learned to address, like when I got home from all these services, let's say I went three days nonstop, maybe like four or 5 hours sleep every day. She ensure everything in the house is perfect with the kids and everything. I usually we shared a load, but during that period of time she would do a lot the work and I'm very thankful for that.
00;21;31;05 - 00;21;51;08
Michael
Now translating that to patient care or client care, we say to ourselves, You know what, we could give the COVID vaccine, We could give COVID screening, we'll get the flu vaccine. Why do we have to give a separately? Why not just know everything all at once? You know, why not also offer medication questionable? Hey, I'm a pharmacist while I'm giving you all these things.
00;21;51;08 - 00;22;12;09
Michael
If you have any medication, questions ask me. And we did that. We actually bundle up a lot of the care so that clients can just come once and done rather than go to like four or five different places, four or five different times to us. And hopefully what that is conveying the message, look, we care about your time, we value your stress, We actually care about you as a human being.
00;22;12;09 - 00;22;19;14
Michael
We want to share dialog before, during and after care. And that to me, I think my wife showed me directly and indirectly as well.
00;22;20;01 - 00;22;47;21
Gena
Great answer. So, Dr. Lou, we so appreciate you spending time with us today. And the important work you do for underresourced communities does not go unnoticed. Your dedication, your expertise and empathy in delivering pharmaceutical medicine really sets a standard for us. So keep us posted on all the work you're doing now and in the future. And come back.
00;22;48;06 - 00;22;53;09
Gena
Come back and be our guest and tell us all about it. Thank you so much for being here.
00;22;54;00 - 00;22;56;06
Michael
Thank you, Gina, as a true pleasure to be here with you.
00;22;57;29 - 00;23;37;01
Gena
Thank you for tuning in to the Faculty Chronicles. T.F. Sea Turtles Podcast featuring the projects and work of faculty throughout the Touro College and University system. TMC is sponsored by the Office of the Provost and Kettl, the Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning. We hope you like what you heard and we'll keep listening. So join us next time on the faculty Chronicles as we highlight and share faculty achievements that build community connection and continuous conversation.