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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Episode number two, Summer Vacation series,
prequel, Some Waste Hour Vacation.
Last week, we talked about the maze, and today
we're going to talk about one of your favorite things, Matt.
Money.
Well, this one could easily become
the Angry episode.
The fees, the travel, hotels, private
training, tournaments.
Showcases, camps, and Everyone
listening knows the bill is real.
Yeah, but let's look at it this way, okay?
The more we did the show, the more the cost conversation became more complex.
It's not just the simplest things are expensive., right?
We know it hurts.
We know it's very difficult.
And we also know there are a lot of kids and we talk about
in episode one, that the idea of the funnel that don't
have an interestryway because of the prohibitive cost to get in.
Oh, we moved on since then.
We met a lot of people trying to build a more honest
more transparent part or version of the system.
Something that parents can relate to.
Look, let's talk about it this way.
If a kid is good enough, work hard enough,
be in the right environment at the right time, they can make their way up.
Yeah, that is why these clips are deep cuts.
They are not just about complaining that soccer costs too much.
They are about access, intention, sacrifice,
college, reality, and the difference between spendingending with
clarity and spending out of fear.
And look, I think we've also learned that there are a lot of
clubs trying to do the right thing
but they're restricted as far as what they can do on also.
This game, this country, to do things is expensive.
You said it before, but if a kid
is in the right place at the right time and it's got the
right talent, the work ethics, usually some door will open for them.
A lot of clubs are willing to do that and help
So we talk about the racks,
the riches, the streets to the pro, and no one better than
Peggy Luindalou.
I can't wait to show you this clip.
He played at the highest level in France, the Red Bulls organization.
We know Peggy gives us the contrast to
what it takes to succeed in America
today, and the contrast of how he grew up is an
important listen for our kids.
Yes, soccer barely costs anything.
That line matters because it reminds us that the game itself is
not expensive.
The American pathway is very expensive.
Here's Piggy's video
Peguy: the chance that we have, in
France, is that basically the, like
football doesn't cost that much.
it's increasing, don't get me
wrong, but at the time it was
close to nothing because, it's
heavily subsidized by the city.
So you have a field, it's paid for by
the city and maintained by the city.
and the city give money to
the club so they can function.
so you come and you just have
to basically pay for your cleats
because even the jerseys and stuff,
you don't have to bring that.
they give it to you.
And so that was structured
and you play as a kid.
You, at the time we were training
once a week and we were playing on the
weekends, but the rest of the time we
were playing everywhere in the street
with cans, with rocks, with ping pong
balls, with tennis balls, with everything
we were playing like in the school yard.
we were playing everywhere.
So basically you would play for fun with
your friends at any time everywhere.
so that's the difference.
it was easier while where
I lived and over in France.
It's easier in the neighborhoods,
because the price of real estate
is not that, that competitive.
you have spots to play, basically.
and so that's why we were playing in
the street and we were challenging each
others, and it was all about the dream
ball, you know, in the neighborhoods.
Like I grew up in a, kind
of a poor neighborhood.
it was like growing up in the US and
playing basketball in the playground.
Liron: You know, this video, I don't know how to
this video really hits me because, first of all, he
says it really calmly, right?
And none of us have ever been so calm about conversation
about money and effort.
And you brought up on the pod many times.
It's about access
Everything is just so damn expensive here.
And you have to pay coaches.
The city and the states and the counties, whatever it,
it may be, don't subsidize youth sports.
And it's not just soccer in this country.
It's every sport.
And this is a challenge across every single sport
where our passion is around South. soccer and trying to figure out a way to address it.
But this is a cliche, right?
We talked about it before.
And I don't want to just repeat it endlessly.
But soccer is the world's sport.
And it's a kind of the two cones in a bowl.
Remember, we said it in our preview.
That's the core, right?
And it's a game of the masses.
It's for the masses.
And it's just not the reality here.
the next guess addresses exactly that.
This episode was off kilter for us, but it meant something.
Danny Buttita took the conversation from frustration
to design.
Look, you got to hand it to the guy he's trying, right?
We chose that because he's not just saying the system is broken
unlike we, and he's trying to do something else.
He's trying to fix it.
He's trying to connect the idea of sp sponsors, the incentives
in clubs, and communities around them
hopefully to enhance the access
to many of these kids.
In other words, do we have a talent problem?
Or do we have an access problem?
Or is it a combination of those things?
We're all in waiting to see if Danny can help solve them.
Here's Danny
Danny: I think a lot of it we've
heard time and time again, especially
on a lot of your guys' episode,
the whole pay to play conundrum.
we gotta find a way to
allow all kids to play.
Not only because it's the
right
thing to do, but
because the talent
coming from these kids.
I was in the Phoenix, Scottsdale
area, so there were a lot of kids
that couldn't afford.
And when I saw
the talent that they had, and
you know, they were always
excited to have these
opportunities.
Unlike you see now sometimes with
the older kids in this game or.
They take it for granted that they can
play and started to design, I hope
will be a new environment for us all
by utilizing sponsors that I've
built over the years and business.
Not all of 'em are soccer, but they do
have naming rights, investments that they
do along with players,
coaches, and bringing everybody
together to try to figure out how we can
not finish with pay to play.
That's always gonna be there and it's
actually a good thing, I just feel like
there's more integration that's necessary.
We've come a long, long way, not
only on the pay to play thing, but
I think we can all admit that the
leagues, the pyramid and all that kind
of stuff is starting to form again.
So in order to do that,
you gotta have players.
You got academies, ID camps,
anything that they can make
money on, I'm fine with that.
Um, I'm an American capitalist.
I believe in those types of opportunities,
but I just feel that at some point, uh,
we need to review and take a look at not
only the money that's spent for families,
but also the quality of the game.
and I think there's more talent out there.
So I think structurally there's
a way to do this, bringing in a
sponsor coherent type of thing.
Literally a
sponsor will match up
with certain players.
meanwhile they're
gonna get named recognition
as a possible co-founder.
But sponsors is a
straightforward way to do it.
Matt: Danny makes costs a system question.
If a player cannot stay in the environment
because the family cannot keep paying,
then we are not really testing the
talent, we're testing the resources
Liron: Yeah, and let's skip forward,
Evan Rosenthal, it's on the other
side of the spectrum, gives us
something practical and human.
obviously Manhattan Kickers is a
prestige club and you gotta pay.
it's a well-known thing in that club.
But, his clip matters because
it shows the value that's inside
the club decision you make.
So essentially you wanna get
what you pay for, right Matt?
Matt: Yeah, and we chose it because it's
not a slogan, it is a budget choice.
No kid turned away is easy to say,
it is much harder to build around
Evan: Well, we have, we're in a kind of
a good situation because being in
Manhattan, we have a lot of parents who
are well off and we have fundraisers
and we have our dues, which.
Which don't even cover
our, all of our expenses.
And so we have fundraisers and
we have scholarship players.
It's the way we look at it.
If a player tries out and the coach
wants him on the team, whether he is the
best player or number 10, we take him.
And then if he, if the family
can't pay the dues, then we
figure out the scholarship.
So we have, sometimes it doesn't matter
the level within, like he has to make
the team, but once he is on the team,
then we, we'll figure the fight.
We've never turned away
a player for money.
No kid has ever not
played with us for funds.
But, it's easier for us
because we can do fundraising.
even on our international trips,
we just went to Brazil and
three kids didn't pay anything.
we have probably 20% of
our club is on scholarship.
we'll have a fundraiser event and we,
former players, parents come and I think
also we, I feel commit to the kids and so
I feel parents are more likely to support
the program when they feel we've, we're
committing to the kids where it's not
year by year, like, oh, he's gotta try out
from U We'll see if he's gonna make it.
we commit to the kids, usually the kids
stay throughout and I think that helps
with the support of the club as well.
Liron: optimistic clip, right?
Uh, gives us hope.
This is not just fake talk.
you know what Manhattan
Kickers is all about.
It's very practical, and I love
the idea that, you're in there and
you're in there for the long run
Matt: Yeah, but there's another side
of the cost, which is the family side.
Even families who can pay still need and
want clarity, 'cause every new opportunity
sounds like the one you cannot miss.
Liron: So Dr. Chris Platz, gave us a
simplest, more useful exercise for this.
And did you do it after he said it?
I don't remember.
He said to us, "Write down the word
why." Chris worked in professional
football environments and thinks deeply
about families and decision-making
Matt: Yeah, we chose this
as the spine of the episode.
Before the next fee, the next camp,
the extra session, the family should
know what it is trying to achieve.
Chris made it sound very simple, and I
think it actually is simple, but maybe
getting to that point is hard, which is,
is the child, the player, aligned with
the parent and the family on what they
want to get out of the game and what
they want at each step along the way?
Liron: You know, Matt, When the kids
are young and we hear many parents say,
well, uh, I, I know parents would, let's
say, got offered from certain clubs.
They go, "Well, let me ask my
kid." And I always roll my eyes.
Well, what does your kid know?
You should know better
for your kid what to do.
It's you know the drive, you
know the cost, you know the team.
What are the… The kids are
gonna like their friends.
They're not gonna wanna move.
You brought that up, too.
On the other hand, maybe you and I have
had, or I can only speak for myself,
some disservice by not really listening
early on to what our kids wanted to do.
I'm just kind of thinking about this
Matt: Yeah.
Look, I think one consistent
thread through all of our episodes
is your kid happy or not happy,
and do you see them progressing?
Now, progress looks really different
in different environments and for
different kids, but is your kid happy?
And if we center the discussion around
that, then I'm pretty sure I would make
some different decisions and, uh, I
would venture to guess I'm not alone
Liron: Oof,
Matt: This clip is probably
the most practical advice in
the whole costs conversation.
And it, it wasn't centered around cost
per se, but it's around movement, and
movement comes with a cost, right?
Um, not because it tells you not to
spend, because it tells you not to drift
Chris: my first, bit of advice for
those parents would be to start with why
why are we doing this ask your son or
daughter, why are you playing football
and what is it you are trying to achieve?
the task is let them
go and write that down.
And you write it down for yourself.
why am I doing this and what
am I trying to achieve through
this journey into football?
And it's amazing how many times
the answers aren't the same.
most parents will put down things
like, I want them to have a purpose.
I want them to get satisfaction.
It's the same things that we
would say about any career.
To give them some belief in
themselves to build confidence.
Right.
Well, if we're in it for this and you
are in, an academy that is battering
your son or daughter, ruining their
confidence, they are having to
play injured and they're not happy.
Well, there's your answer.
Get out.
there are other route into this
that don't have to fulfill that.
So these whys, what are we doing this for?
Why are we doing this?
They provide the blueprint for
you as a family, for you as
the humans in this process.
And you have to protect yourself
because the clubs, they're using
your son or daughter as an asset, not
because they think that they're gonna
turn them into wonderful human beings.
They either wanna make money off the game.
That's it.
So you have to be the anchor.
You have to be the foundations
upon which you make decisions.
And if that means walking away from
a certain space because this isn't
good for your child, then you have to
be in a space to be able to do that.
And having the foundations
in place is key to that.
Liron: First of all, I don't wanna hear
anyone say after this clip that you and
I are not massive philanthropists for
everything we've given this community.
clip alone, I, I don't even, I don't
even know how things rolled into our
lap for this opportunity for us to,
to magnify this, this kind of advice.
Uh, y- drift is expensive, right?
It's, it's expensive in money,
it's expensive in weekends, in
family, in siblings, fights, uh,
time lost, quality time lost, and
my God, all the emotional energy
Matt: Uh, Justin Phelps gives us
another parent story inside that
sacrifice, and what a sacrifice.
We chose this clip because it does not
reduce the sacrifice to a complaint.
It shows how a family can reframe it
when the why is bigger than the result
Justin: my wife and I, We see
this as just a overall life.
Growth opportunity for Evan.
and I think when we started to reframe
this in our minds a little bit and
stopped thinking about this, this
journey of whatever the heck this is,
you know, whatever this is, I don't
know what this is like, and we just
reframed it and we started thinking
more in terms of him growing as a
human being and as an individual.
I think it really helped.
Change our, our thought process on
everything because yeah, you can have
these conversations where like, well,
is this the best environment for him?
Is his confidence taking a hit?
Would he be better off somewhere else?
And, and, and just sort of go
round and round with all that.
I think it's just pointless.
I, I really do.
I think that us trying to
project what's gonna happen for
a 13-year-old kid is insane.
he is in a great environment right now.
Training wise, we, we love the coaches.
we love Jose, the academy director.
they're gonna make the best
decision for the academy and,
whatever happens at the
end of the year happens.
Righ?.
Righ?.
if they see enough promise in Evan
and they believe that when he hits
his growth spurt, he's gonna be able
to do something more, then great.
And if they don't, that's great too.
Evan will continue to grow as a kid.
And that's just the way we approach it.
Liron: But, um, Justin, his
fearless confession, right?
Uh, it reminds us why you can be cynical
on the side and almost mock parents.
'Cause if you're not in it s-
a lot of it looks ridiculous.
I know the conversations I have with
my dad telling him where- what I'm
doing, and I'm in the car, and I can
just, even on the phone, could see his
eyes rolling in the back of his head.
But forget love right now, but it's
showing up, driving, being there.
All we're doing is trying to support a kid
which we hope cares deeply about something
Matt: Yeah, the, the danger is
when sacrifice turns into pressure.
Once a family has given enough, it
becomes hard to admit that the outcome
might not be what they imagined.
Liron: Yeah.
So Tom Bowen, uh, from Long Island
Soccer Club brings the idea of college
back, just snaps it back into reality.
Uh, he lives in both the college and
academy world, and this clip is short,
but I don't need to explain a lot more
Tom: athletic scholarships
are like gold dust, right?
So I think everyone's chasing
this athletic scholarship
that it's really tough.
So I think the easier way to get
money to go to colleges is to just
maintain a really good GPA and
work really hard in your academics.
hopefully, depending on the school,
you'll get a good academic package that
then, and you're then instantaneously
more attractive to a college soccer
coach because that money's not coming
outta their athletic budget because
it's coming from academic funds.
And now we could just top
you up with athletic money.
So the academic piece is huge and
we stress that to our players daily,
make sure you're doing your homework.
If you're stressed with school,
we're okay with you at times.
If you need if you communicate with us and
you have to miss a practice because you're
really behind, it's about time management,
but schooling is really important.
Matt: "Scholarships are gold dust."
That, that sentence should be heard
by every family using scholarship
math to justify youth soccer spending
It means the financial fantasy
around it can be very misleading
Liron: So to balance that, we brought
Ryan Farr, and he was trying to
kind of give us the healthier, more
kid-friendly version, 'cause that's how
you… I understand the world of what
the college conversation is all about.
Ryan talks about academics,
communication, and the post-grad path.
Not a flashy clip, not a flashy
story, but deep one, and, um,
that's exactly why we chose it
Matt: Yeah, the college process at this
point, uh, has me incredibly confused
and not looking forward to that process.
But the real college process
is not just can you play?
It is can you fit the school?
Can you handle the work?
Can you communicate with coaches and
build a life where soccer is part of
the picture, not the whole picture?
Ryan: you have to excel in academics.
it's the first thing coaches
ask you, and it's something
that I've always prioritized.
I think having two older brothers helped
in seeing them do successful in the
classroom, and my parents did a good job
pushing us to do well in the classroom.
And I think a lot of coaches on the,
club level really push that because
a lot of them know that the way us
players in our area are gonna make
it is through D3, top D3 programs,
which you have to excel in academics.
So in my area it was definitely, pushed
upon us to be good in the classroom so we
can play at the schools we wanna play at.
the D1 offer I had was, it was just
not a school that I was targeting.
there were schools that I wanted to go to
just based off size or the school itself.
And it was an offer that I had and I
was seriously considering it because I
didn't wanna do the route of Northwood.
I didn't wanna do the PG year because
all my friends were going to college.
I wanted to stay on the same
track as all my friends.
I didn't really know what
to expect at Northwood.
I had a pretty closed mind, to be
honest, about the whole situation.
I think my dad pushed it upon me
'cause he had a lot of conversations
with Coach Moody and kind of did a
lot more research than me at the time.
And so over time, I just, like I
said, or like my dad said earlier,
what else can I do with soccer?
I haven't really given it
a full year of attention.
I haven't been at that level
and really seen what I can do.
And also going in as a guy who's
a year older and physically
adept is huge as well.
Liron: he's more, he's more mature
than, than I am, I feel like.
Th- this is…
Matt: It's a low bar.
Liron: Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: you.
I, I, I was wa- I always set you up for
Matt: Oh, you definitely did.
Liron: look, take out the
movie trailer, actual life.
Gotta do the nitty-gritty, right?
Matt: Yeah.
And then Phil Gordon brings the
professional pathway trade-off.
Phil has coached across Orlando City, DC
United, and now Nottingham Forest, so he
understands the gap between the idea of
a contract and the reality of a career
Liron: Yeah, and we chose
this clip not just because you
weren't on that show, uh, but,
Matt: That's why it was
the best one you've done
Liron: you see, see what
happens when you take a break.
Uh, we chose it because there's
a few things that caught my ear.
The real point is kind
of just being uncertain.
Uh, families are often choosing
between incomplete options and
both can look rational, right?
Matt: Yeah.
That is, that is why cost
is not only about the bill.
It's about knowing the trade-off before
the system makes the decision for you
Phil: there's loads of bits that
go on from a football standpoint,
and I can give you advice.
I can give you my opinion as a coach.
At the end of the day, you and your
son and your family have to make that
decision of where you want to go.
At the end of the day, you're talking
about Stanford or wherever, like
that's what, a half a million dollar
at the end of four years education.
Liron: Yeah.
Phil: You're not making $500,000
playing on a second team contract.
I can tell you that right now.
So it's unbelievably difficult
because the draws of playing
college soccer are massive.
Some of these college programs
and the facilities and equipment
and the things that they get.
And as Pat said, some of them
are going, the draft still puts
players from college into the MLS.
So that is a pathway as well.
It's so individualized and it depends
on the club you're at and does that
first team coach at the moment put
academy players into the first team?
Will that coach still be there in four
years time when your son turns 18 and is
eligible to play and things like that?
So there's so many things.
And how do you best spend your time?
Is it 50-50?
Do you get up extra half an hour
earlier to go to the flexibility in
the class before you go to school?
It's about the work that the player and
the family are willing to put in, but
I don't think there's no straight line.
There's no easy answer for
this one, unfortunately.
Matt: That is the moment where the
family needs more than ambition.
It needs information, relationships,
people who will tell the truth
Liron: Let me ask you a question, Matt.
We sometimes forget, who
pays for all these things?
it's us.
It's not the kids.
Matt: I, I did.
I, I don't forget.
Liron: paying for all the… Who, who's,
who's producing all, all, all this?"
So the reason we got the Rando clip is
because it talks about the path through
self-advocacy and relationship, and you're
doing this to spend time with your family
and with your kids and your loved one.
And after a whole episode about
money, I just maybe said that's the
right place to kind of leave this off
Matt: Yeah, tap the network,
ask better questions.
Talk to people who have walked the road.
That may be the most valuable
thing a parent can do before
writing that next check
Alex: tap the network that's around them.
So I would say as a parent, you
obviously know your child better
than anyone else, but you maybe don't
know them at that soccer level that
a coach would know them or maybe
even another parent would know them.
Because I often found that like
I opened up to other parents
more than to my own parents.
Like I was too scared to open to them.
So if there was a guy that I was
carpooling with, like maybe I was
opening up to his dad a little more
and it was good for his dad because
his son wouldn't open up to him.
So then there's this relationship there.
and then have an open
conversation with your kid.
but don't push them.
That's the one thing I would say.
You really don't want to push them.
and I, I would, I also wouldn't say, Hey,
what's going on with your confidence?
don't preface it like that.
Like just, you know, maybe it's like an
activity that you're doing with your son
or your daughter that you typically do.
Maybe like on Thursdays you go to
the movies or something like that.
Slip it in there when you're, when
you're having a good conversation.
just maybe ask it a little bit there.
That's what I would say.
my mom and my dad, if they had to ask
me about something, They would let
me play video games and depending on
how well I was doing, if I was happy,
like then they would start asking me
questions coming back from that, and then
I'd be like, oh, I'll be answering the
Liron: Well, Matt, uh,
this is our recap of Money.
Man, I feel, I feel broke and rich at
the same time after an episode like this.
I gotta admit, I'm hearing all these
clips, I feel a little, 2% less angry
than I usually am or expected to be at
this episode, and it, it doesn't make
me think about unfair systems and…
'Cause that's not really
fair to even say that.
People in these clips are trying
to make sense of this environment.
Some build into it, some are part
of it, and they're all just trying
to help each other and help families
just understand where they are
Matt: That's truth, but it's still
a systematic challenge and it,
and it's a seismic one, honestly.
Like, the number of kids who either
don't try out or go to a tryout and
the first question they ask is, "What
does it cost?" leads you to believe
this is a real, real challenge.
That being said, the takeaway, if
you can, is not to never spend.
The takeaway is to never spend blindly,
and I think there's a lot to be done
where that can be done differently, and
to know the why, know the trade-off, know
what you are buying and what you are not
Liron: Yeah, you know, like we can
end up hours researching the, our next
fridge, but, uh, signing a check to a
soccer club we can do in a, on a whim.
So yeah, yeesh.
so next week we're gonna skip the parent
side 'cause I'm sick of that, and we'll
talk about the player and what actually
builds a soccer player in the United
States, a youth soccer player in the
United States, and, what gets in the way.
Matt, thanks man.
Summer's coming
Matt: You keep promising me that.
Liron: I know.
In the basement, you never know.