Trans-Woman | Struggle and Triumph

On this episode of Imago Gei, Randi Robertson discusses her journey as a trans woman married to her college sweetheart and working as an Air Force pilot for 22 years as well as an instructor for a Christian university. As we end Women's Month, we are going out with thoughtful consideration over gender and the implications of being a woman or trans woman both in the church and in society.

What is Imago Gei | Queer Faith. Colorful God.?

Imago Gei is a play on the term Imago Dei, which means made in the Image of God. Imago Gay is a gay podcast production affirming that we are all deserving of dignity. Gay church anyone? Spectrum Magazine, SDA Kinship along with Kendra Arsenault M.Div. have come together to bring you the latest on queer theology and a minority perspective on faith.

Imago Gay is the affirmation of our humanity and shared value in the eyes of God. This dignity and affirmation of human value, which is the birthright of every living and breathing human being is one that is often forgotten when affirming the dignity of LGBTQ lives. LGBTQ youth are four times as likely to commit suicide. LGBTQ youth also make up 40% of the homeless youth in America. Unfortunately, much of their suicidality and housing insecurity is caused by bad theology. Whether it’s parents who kick their children out of the home for coming out, or the depression that comes with believing that being queer means there is no future possibility of love, family and happiness and you’ve once dreamed. Bad theology is one that does not treat the other as Imago Dei, made in the image of God. So as a statement both to ourselves and to others, Imago Gei is a podcast that affirms that we are all made in the image of God, even the gays….

Okay, we're just going to lead into our conversation because I just, I love talking with you. You are so fun to talk with. And, and even just, can I just say, like, out of all the people, you know, when everything went down with that vet next, , one of the, the community that I think that was very supportive, very in my inbox. People that I, that I've created, like. Good connections with have been transgender women, that they have been one of the most supportive people , when it comes to like my virtual community, that they have come out of the woodworks.

And I am so grateful for, the mama bears of the community came out and, uh, and support. And I was so blown away by that. Well, you know, I, I'm not surprised.

, I don't know how much of your, your community and online community is in the trans world, but the reality is, is you can't have been in the community for any length of time and not. No have experienced, have seen the experiences of isolation, loss and loss may mean loss of job, loss of family, loss of standing.

You have experienced it to some degree or another. And so when you see somebody else. In that same space. What are you going to do? I mean, you've, you've had to walk this battle of authenticity. That is honestly, so in the face of so much of, of the world, if you're an out trans person, even if you're like me, who's, who's largely stealth in real life.

You know, day-to-day living, , you've still had to walk that walk and, you know, lots of people that have walked that walk. And for me, almost everybody, I know they've had a less, satisfactory or less inclusive journey than mine. And, and so I've had. I know that. So when somebody within a community that I have a voice kind of to be a mama bear, I step up, I mean, there are individuals from a few years back who, as they were on a journey of self discovery, . I've been there because you've got to have those people to navigate that space, even if it's just people saying you're okay. Right. I'm here. If you need me pick up the phone, send me a text. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I've, I love that. I love that. So one thing that I think, wanting to kind of really understand more of the transgender culture and transgender world.

One of the things that I love that as a woman, I feel like you're, you're my spy, can tell me now we have a comparative experience. Right? One thing I was dying to know, and the first question I asked you was like, so do you actually get mansplained now?

Is your experience as a woman objectively different than what it was when you were a man? Oh my goodness. So, , yeah, but you know, privilege is an interesting thing because there is. In our social societal construct, there is some female privilege that's there. And if you are a passing trans woman, you're privileged to bits and pieces of that.

So the mansplaining thing I got, I got three, so I've been a professional pilot since 1988. When I joined the air force spent 22 years in the United States air force as an officer and a pilot retired.

From there as a Lieutenant Colonel for what it's worth. , after that, I taught for Andrews university for four years, and that's a whole set of story. We could spend more time on that and maybe we will, left there because my journey in life, we moved to Florida. I have spent the last basically the last six years, , teaching, and the last two and a half years, I have been at jet blue airlines where I'm a pilot and an instructor,

, so first thank you for your service. I mean, you spent a long career in the air force, so to me, honestly, .

It was good to my family. So. Good. So you have had this robust experience, an aviation, , professional, you know, pilot teaching a ton of experience at excellent resume. You've been a test pilot at certain times. Here's the test pilot.

. So you have extensive knowledge, you don't need to be mansplained about probably a lot of things. Definitely not about aviation. Have you, have you experienced a difference in treatment, , since your transition? So. I don't say this to brag, but I have a really, really good resume , within the space that I work in.

And, , I have a good reputation as well, but , my first position after I transitioned, I was with another company, not at jet blue. And I taught corporate pilots, ,, I'd been there for a little less than a year. And once a month, they, I, they put me to teach the what's called the initial systems class.

And so it was a six day long course, eight hours a day for the first five days and then six hours on the, on the sixth day. And I taught that class. So it's like teaching a college, a university level class in a week. Right. Literally super-intense yeah, really intense, but. You look at the industry I'm in and less than 5% of professional pilots that hold what's called an airline transport license, less than 5% of us are women. So compare that to say surgeons, right. There are like 19% of surgeons are women. So it's super male dominated industry and it's slowly and it's so painfully slowly changing, but it is changing slowly.

So every classroom I'm in. Odds are, I won't have a woman in the class. These gentlemen would show up coming in, traveling in, from out of town for, you know, three weeks of training.

And, , they would walk in that Monday morning and I would get responses like, oh, with a name like Randy, I thought you were going to be a man. Hmm. Um, I would get the looks of like, oh my God, it's a woman up there. , it was unbelievable. One of my colleagues was being transferred from one aircraft into the aircraft I taught.

And he had such issues that he actually went to, , leadership and said, if she's teaching initial, I don't want to go to the class, put me in a different class when somebody else is teaching it. Well, they, they, fortunately they said to him, , go to the class or find a new job. Good on administration for backing you up on that one.

So he came into the classroom. He was not happy to be there. Day and a half in. He went back to leadership and said, oh my goodness, it's the best class I've ever been in.

Wow. Wow. And have you ever had those experiences prior to your transition where people were doubting your competence? Oh, no. Never. I'm uh, I walked in, I'm a guy, I'm a pilot. I was an air force. Pilot enough said, I, that was it. You were totally qualified. You're good to go. Who I can learn lots from you.

Right. But as a woman, so it's not in our heads, women, you know, we are getting treated differently. Our competence is questioned because of our gender. It's a real, , This is one of the interesting experiences that trans women can bring to the broader community of women that says, Hey, you know what?

There's, there's certain times where we really do need to probably all stand up a little bit more than sometimes maybe we do. I'm glad to have this conversation with you because I think sometimes people are afraid to like, how do we have these conversations? How do we talk about, get to know other people's experiences, , without offending anybody.

And, and so when it comes to language, some people are afraid to ask questions, like, what are your pronouns? And so do you have any helpful language or some do's and don'ts for people who want to start conversations, but also be considerate. Sure. So, so the first thing is, is, , if someone has a clear presentation, right?

If somebody shows up in your midst and they're clearly presenting as a specific gender, Then don't use the pronoun that doesn't fit. Right. , even, if, you're like, I know that person is transgender, right. And worst case scenario, if you're not sure.

Get the person's name and use their name. The name is always safe. And so you can ask person what's your name Bob or Sally or whatever it is, . Use that until you at least get to know him well enough to where it's not like this invasive question of, well, who are you?

What are you, I mean, who wants to be asked? What are you five minutes in? No. No, thank you. It's amazing how many trans people pass through spaces. And people don't even know that we have passed through that space. The idea of a man in a dress or whatever else.

I'm not going to say it's the exception, but it's not as common as you think. And that person who is, shall we say the quilt man in a dress, um, the transgender person who is really early on in their, in their journey. Give him lots of room to not look terribly great, you know, and support them.

I'm don't I'm not saying tell them that they look awesome every time, but, but be supportive and support them in the journey that they're on. Since women didn't grow up, and magically. When they turn whatever age, it was, know how to dress and know how to put on makeup and know how to do their hair.

And the reality is is some of us are better at it than others. And it will be that way until we die. Right, right. I'm still learning to do my makeup, so, oh, you know, at a point where I needed to start to know, I literally went to an Alta

I went in and I said, okay, this is who I am. This is what I am, I need help. And what did they say? What was there? Oh, it was awesome. So it was funny. I became, I said, the first thing they did is they went and they found the, the guy who works in the store, who was a, a drag queen, a well known drag queen. Yeah.

We chatted over the next hour and a half or so as he showed me all sorts of stuff, he said, I don't do it all that much anymore, but I help a bunch of the, the younger ones now. He was like, so what's your purpose?

And I said, this is what I am. I want to look natural and normal and pasture spaces. And, and he spent a huge amount of time. And, and so many of the gals in the store of the clerks came by and they were all like, super, super supportive. You know, he did half of my face and I'm like, I can't walk out of the store with half a face.

Right. He was showing me how to do stuff. Right. So then we did the rest of my face, but, that's really how I learned and I go from having to go from as an adult from nothing to. Being able to look professional almost overnight. So it's a bit of a challenge.

I think this is so important because, even as, as a part of the LGBT community, there's different parts of the community that I'm more in touch with than others. Right. And so, you know, to think we're all this monolith, it's not true. And I'm learning so much through this journey. And, and even by doing this podcast, it's putting me in touch with so much that I'm learning and gaining so much experience from.

And I hope our audience listeners do too. And I was thinking, you know, maybe you can talk to us a little bit about your story, you know, that somebody listening can hear the voice of, what you've been through and hopefully relate to those that might be in their life. Yeah. So

my father was a, , teacher and administrator at Southern for over three decades. My mother was an educator. So I grew up in a home, three siblings, an older brother, sister, and then a younger sister. And I grew up in a community that I look back with very fond memories, but there are, there is baggage from that as well. So I grew up in this loving home with engaged in wonderful parents, , with good siblings

and so by the age of somewhere between like can't put a dead peg on it somewhere in between six and nine years old, I had clearly gotten to the point where I sufficiently understood myself to know that I was what we would now call transgender.

How did you view it at the time? Like, did you have, was transgender language that you accessed or how did you internalize that knowledge? Well, let's get real. Okay. Let's go back. I live in college, Dell, Tennessee. This is the. Late sixties, early seventies, this language is not running around the community.

Transgender wasn't even a term that was in use at that point. Transsexual would have been the proper term. , and so I, I had this understanding, but I also came to this, understanding that within our community construct that innate sense that kids get that this would not be good for others to know.

And I headed into the closet, and, and stayed there for, , a long time. And the reasons changed over time. There just wasn't a lot of literature at that point in time. By the time I am in middle school, I have a very clear understanding of who I am, but I also have come to understand that within our community, , gay is bad and I had no other real viable thing to measure against.

So if gay was bad, what I was had to be worse, , somehow in the logic of things. So I was, cross-dressing in secret with two sisters, one older and one younger. I have lots of resources and that's awesome. I have since apologized profusely to my two sisters and they have forgiven me. I finally, I get to, college, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be. I'm trying to be a good guy.

, I pursue something that I enjoy in terms of career aviation. , I meet the love of my life. There at Andrews, and, we married the day. I graduated that afternoon that evening. Wow. What a busy day. It was hideously long.

And every time it was like, well, if I do this, this'll fix it if I get married, that'll fix it. It didn't, , But I loved her and I still do. And so, , I kept hiding. I kept staying in the closet. We navigated ourselves through life. We eventually ended up in the air force after fits I figured, well, okay, every one of these is going to fix this kind of works can work. None. None of them did. Right. I should have started to figure it out a little bit sooner, but I didn't. So all of these kind of career moves and transitions where you trying to, to fight against

making the transition into womanhood or where are you, where are you thinking that you were going to be fixed? How are you internalizing that? So I'm like, if I finally get successful, then I won't. I won't do when we move, you know, none of it ever worked. Right. None of it. Cause, cause it's all your head's wired. But we get settled into our career, my career in the air force aren't career mine, really. Um, and as soon as there's any open windows, like, oh my God, it comes rushing back as hard as it ever was, probably worse. We have our first child, during the course of my first assignment.

, that was weird experience for me. , tell me, well, you know, so here's this thing. , what do women grow up with as a. Perception of, motherhood , and the idea of pregnancy and what that means in one's life. And here I am with my dear and wonderful spouse.

And, , there's this weird level of jealousy going on. Interesting. Yeah, I could imagine. Yeah, it's an experience I want. Right. I wanted, I mean, I'm too old now. I'm not going to have kids, obviously, other than the ones that we already have. , but he created, it created for lack of a better term, a lot of dysphoria for me at that point had our first child, , that didn't fix anything.

, did you being a father, was that also a part of like the. Dysphoria, like you described it, , to not be recognized as a mom, right. Or to be thought of as a dad, was that problematic in any terms? So the world may have seen me as a dad. , my kids probably I'm pretty well convinced Sammy as a dad, certainly early in life.

And to an extent they still do because it's a legitimate title that I get a hold. , but I always framed it in my head. I'm a parent. I turned it gender neutral as gender neutral as I possibly could. , so granted, given my career path, we had a fairly typical, Set of roles between my spouse and myself when we were raising our kids, particularly when they were young through school age.

But I always framed it in my head is I'm a parent, right. We're parents. And so ID gendered it, which allowed me to not, place constraints on myself of this is the dad role and that's the mom role and vice versa. , and so whatever worked for us is the roles that I would pick up my fair share or at least I certainly did my best to, , and those kinds of things.

I think I did an okay job. , I think that's all we can ever aspire to. I don't have kids that I, I know that the perfectionism of wanting to do, right. I'm just like, I just have to accept. I'll probably be responsible for my kids being in therapy. And it's a long in this time after our daughter comes along, I'm in my, very early thirties.

And I've been struggling with God. Why I've been praying about this for, at that point? Well, over 10 years, ,

, but it's in this, window, around when our children are born, that I start to finally come to resolution. With God and I'm going, okay, this is just who I am.

I start to be able to resolve with God that God said in scripture, I knew you basically, before you were in your mother's womb, I knitted you together. , If I grasp and hold on to that, I am who God made me to be. Other people may not agree with that, but that's the truth of it.

. God knows my inner most being and. God's okay with that. Were you at any point where you, , trying to like fix it or were you in a space of wanting to find theological acceptance or were you doing pennants? What were those? Probably some of, all of those at various different times. Right. And I struggled for a long time when I finally resolved that. I'm good with God and God's good with me. Now I'm in a really difficult spot. I've acknowledged to myself that yes, indeed.

I am a transgender person. I'm married to an amazing woman. We have two beautiful children and we're raising a third, uh, nephew. , my career is going well. It provides a good income. We need stability to raise our children the way we want to. And I have hard choices because if I come out at that point in time, my career comes to a screeching halt.

Financial stability is totally turned on its head. Even, even at that point, our society was way, way, way, way further back than it is today. And it has a long, long ways to go, but it was way more hostile even then. And so I. Made a conscious choice of very conscious and explicit choice to remain closeted and deeply closeted and figure out how I could manage through space and time to at least get to my military retirement.

Gotcha. Now, were you still in the military at the time that you came to this kind of? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was probably a little over halfway through my career when I finally, maybe about halfway through my career when I resolved it in myself, right. When I was like, okay, this is who I am, this is what it is.

But I've got to figure out how to navigate from here to the end of a career, because that creates financial stability. Long-term financial stability for my family, regardless of the outcomes long-term for. My spouse and I, that can I just say that takes an incredible amount of sacrificed, you know, I certainly don't think I could have done that right.

To have put that off for 10 years. And I think that just shows the caliber of human being that you are. I mean, it must have been a painful 10 years to retirement. Cause you were halfway through, you probably had another 10 years to go. Yeah. Round numbers, 10, 12, something like that. So, you know, I'll be honest that to navigate the space.

, I've always been faithful to my spouse, so I'll start with that. But I would be at home by myself, working on a project, doing a research thing for a graduate program. And my spouse would be gone with the children and, and that would be a week or, you know, whatever.

And so I was home and it gave me space to

be as authentic as I could be at the time. It was at one hand frightening because you live in a neighborhood and you don't want the neighbors to know because you have neighbors that are literally squadron mates and, and so on and so forth. And so, you know, I would be working on, on graduate program stuff in my study.

But I had a change of clothes, so I could put on if I had to go to the front door. Right. Oh, wow. Okay. So I could, do a quick change. I could do the, the wonder woman thing. And it sounds like you're having to live with an incredible amount of vigilance, , incredible amount of like awareness and defensiveness, even like, I'm sure that caused a lot of stress and, and took a toll on him. Did it take a toll on your mental health at all? I am blessed with a positive outlook by nature.

Blessed with kind of the cup is half full type of a view of the world and life. And I'm sure it took a toll. Did it ever put me in a corner where I, I, I felt like I couldn't manage or anything else? No, I, you know, and I was fortunate and I actually knew that that was the case at the time. , and as the time I was like, you know, maybe, maybe I can navigate this all the way to the end of life and manage it all the way to the end of my life.

And the older I got, the more that reality was, clearly not going to work. And, certainly by the time I got my last assignment in the military, I was, at the point where I knew things were going to have to change how much they were going to have to change for me. I, I wasn't absolutely certain, but I knew they were going to have to change.

What was the tipping point for you to say, okay, I can't, I can't, this isn't enough for me. Well, so

, it's, it's not a tipping point. It's a fading line , my spouse found out in the course of our last military move to our last assignment and she discovered my stash of clothes and accessories and makeup. And questioned me.

What was her first reaction? Was it like, are you cheating on me or did she know? Well, no, none of that. Well, so, so we've talked about that and you know, her first reaction when she found the two boxes of my clothes was, and then she's like, no, it makes no sense. Right? There's the, it makes no sense. Why, why would Randy have these things?

, if cheating was happening that made no sense. And so she was like, Hmm, what does this mean? , we had a long conversation. ,

and there were lots of tears shed, , on both sides on, on my side, probably more tears of relief, , and on hers tears of, I don't know what this really means for us and for her. , but given where we were, we made the conscious choice based on career and family stability that. I would stay in the closet.

And so fundamentally drawing her in the closet with me. I finished out my career in the air force and I could've stayed longer. The air force certainly would have kept me longer if you didn't retire, would there have been consequences if you were to transition while you're still in the military? Well, at the time, um, when I retired, I would have been, forcibly retired fundamentally as what would have happened, given that I was retirement eligible.

I just would have been forcibly retired. But in theory, yes, they could have medically discharged. For mental deficiency.

I mean, I retired, , before the end of don't ask, don't tell within a year of my retiring, don't ask, don't tell which actually only applies to, , LGB, not T , came into full fruition and administratively started to execute, , within the, branches of service. So, weirdly transgender has never, unlike, , don't ask, don't tell.

Um, transgender service has never lived in a legislative prohibition. It's always been within, , as long as it's been prohibited has been within the administrative framework of mental health. So interesting. Do you know what the policy is today? I think I saw a story while back it was, , a transgender man who was in the military and , I don't know how those policies have changed.

Are they making a shift? So the end of the Obama administration, , saw the introduction of, , authorized service by transgender individuals. So that would have been in the 2016 range and the last year of the Obama administration give or take ish, the policies finally came into place and,

And then by tweet, the immediately prior occupant of the white house, basically said, , we're not going to allow transgender individuals to serve however many transgender people continued to serve. , throughout the previous administration.

The Biden administration has, , reversed all of that. And we're kind of back to the policies that were in place in 2017 I know it's a, a priority of the administration, but it's slow work.

It's hard work. I just looking at your career, you know, with the military and then the church, right. To, to have predominantly a career those many years in kind of a non affirming spaces. I just can't imagine how difficult that, that your employment is tied to you staying in the closet, essentially.

It's do what you have to, to survive and provide for the people that I made a commitment. , to the most important person in my life and that commitment didn't go away just because I'm a transgender person. And, even if she had chosen a path that had said we can't stay, , together, , I still would have ensured that she was provided for.

So, , that's just the commitment that I made and I'm going to live up to that commitment. And so those are the motivators that I use to basically keep myself sane, honestly, and keep myself engaged and motivated. And I was doing stuff that I enjoy doing. So it wasn't as though that part was a burden. So yeah.

I just incredible love story. Honestly, so, yeah, I retired at the end of 2010. And my spouse says to me, okay, you've got to go find a therapist. Okay.

You got to get this sorted out. You gotta get this figured out. So I did, , I went and I found a therapist, , somebody who's, who is skilled with, the LGBT community and had some expertise with transgender people. The third visit, , she's like, yeah. Okay. You're definitely a transgender person.

This is not hard. You're an easy one. , I'm glad it wasn't complicated. She's like, this is not a complicated case. You're transgender person. That's queer, it's obvious. I continue to see her for a little while. And after a while, you know, after a couple of months, she's like, okay, so I can keep taking your money, Randy.

But, , you're healthy mentally. You're fully functional, you're fully capable. And we're at a point, you're at a point where you've got to make some, some decisions as to, , what you need to do to continue to move forward with life. Like she said, I'll take your money, but you don't need to come and see me on a regular basis anymore.

She said, when you've made those decisions, if you need help, whatever the decision is I'm here for you. , That put me into a period where I had to do some real soul searching. I went to my spouse and she's like, I can't, I can't really help you with this decision. This is a decision that you really kind of have to sort through.

I'll listen, but I can't, affirm or disaffirm or anything else. This isn't a decision you truly have to make. And, , I'm grateful that she, , put it that way. I spent, , several weeks. And I came to the conclusion that, , transition probably was the path that I needed to go on, but minimally, I had to come out, to my family. I had to be open and honest about that. And so, , I told my spouse that that was the case. And she said, okay.

And we then started to strategize how we're going to do this. We decided that we would tell my siblings first. So my brother, , and my two sisters first, because we wanted to create a network so that our children had people that they loved and trusted that they could go and talk to. We went over to their house before dinner and sat in their living room. And I. Let's build my soul, so to speak and they're like, okay, well, we still love you. Let's go eat. That's a fantastic response by the way. , but you know, that's just thinking back. I mean, it's still hard. , you know, , those are hard conversations and even today, they're just thinking about them.

It's hard. And so then I told my, my two sisters on the phone because they didn't live in the area. my two sisters and my siblings are like, okay, so yeah, you got to tell mom and dad, but hold off.

And I respected that. They had some conversations, which I have no earthly idea what the mice themselves, that I was not at all included in, but they then said, okay, this is what we want you to do to tell mom and dad, this is how we want you to set it up. And, , I kind of let them lead on that. , but I had a phone conversation with my parents.

That was the choice that we made. Um, probably the hardest conversation I've ever had.

Wow. But there's just spots that my parents had. We love you and we always will,

and you'll always be welcome. And that's what a lot of people experience, just not, whether you gay or. BI or lesbian. That's not even necessarily, it's probably a more common response, but for trans people, that's a way less common than it should be.

. I hadn't gotten a job after I'd retired. I had been seeking a position. I had put out more applications, complicated time, politically in the United States. And, the jobs that I figured I was going to be able to go and get weren't being funded.

I got a call and they offered me, , an associate professor seat at, the department of aviation. Wow. Having, having no job and needing a job, , I accepted the position.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and so here, within the previous three months, I had come out to my whole family. And now I'm taking a position at a seventh. They had finished university. Wow. And the irony was not lost on myself or my spouse.

Wow. We agreed to four to six years at Andrews when some of that had to do with the age of our kids and getting them through school, , for, at the short end to be fair to the university and six would have gotten our, our youngest all the way through a bachelor's degree if that's what he chose to do.

And so, , that was the window. I get to Andrews and I start , my tenure there at Andrews. I dove right in. I love the university environment. I love the kids. I still love the kids. , I'm still in touch with almost virtually all of them.

So I guess I'm kind of curious about, you know, you're at Andrews, you're teaching, it sounds to me like you've kind of planned when you were finally going to transition and that was after you spent four to six years teaching, and then, then you gave yourself the permission to do that, or how did that go?

Well, my plan kinda got sidetracked, it wasn't like, I was like, Ooh, yeah, let me see, let me go spend four to six more years, , in the closet, right in the closet. Yeah. But, gender dysphoria is a powerful who it's powerful. , and the longer I put it off, , the more problematic is for you became, ,

and so I would go down to the lake. , for two weeks at a time to work and it was several hour drive there. And so, I would go down, I'd stay in the house. I would work and for 10 days, two weeks I was me. And every time I would come back, I would have to change.

So I would stop. Literally. I would stop at a park just before I got home. Oh, wow. Yeah. And change in the car, , into my male persona. Wow. And every time I did it, it got harder. And that was where I came to the epiphany that I was going to have to in order to really continue to, , Live life. And, so by my second year teaching there, the dysphoria was becoming almost debilitating. So I went and I saw an endocrinologist and, , started HRT. Congratulations. That's a big step. Yeah, it's huge. And, , My body likes estrogen. , I'd done all the reading, right? Many trans women. We'll write that. One of the best things about HRT is what it does for your head. It does, it does fun stuff to your body. I like what it's done.

I'm not arguing with that, but, what it does to your head. And I'm like, ah, it can't be that great right. The end of the first week, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. Really? What was that like, I, now I'm curious.

I'm going to admit to something that I don't admit a lot. , during my second year, they already Andrews, I had gotten to the point where my teaching load was very heavy. and I was teaching all new classes that year. And I was literally barely keeping my head above the water. In other words, I was preparing the morning of a class to present that class later in that day. I wasn't getting papers graded as quickly as I should have, honestly. , I would come to a weekend and on Sunday I would be like, okay, I have these things.

I've got to get done. I'd get up early in the morning to get started all, you know, with Gusto to get it all done. , and at six o'clock at night, I would look and I would be like, I've done nothing, but I have to teach class tomorrow. So I would work until, , nine or 10 o'clock at night, get up at five in the morning, four 30 or five in the morning so that I could teach class I knew I had to do something, , HRT was what that was. And so the end of that first week, I'm like, holy cow, I haven't been this productive and I can't remember how long. Oh, wow. So it really helped improve your productivity. Oh yeah.

I mean the noise and , I've always used this expression. The noise in my head was just going away the noise that prevented me from getting the things done that I needed to was just going away. Interesting. And so cool. And I'm like, ah, it's placebo, it's placebo. Right. That's what I told myself, you know, got to give it more time the end of the second week.

I'm like, okay, maybe it's not placebo. Maybe there's a little bit, but some of it's placebo and you know, by a month in 3, 3, 4 weeks. And I'm like, okay, it's not placebo. It's just what it does to me. And, , that's amazingly powerful. You know, you just, I don't know how to explain that to somebody who's never been there and never had that experience.

, so my brain really liked the estrogen, the rest of my body kind of took to it pretty well. They started way faster than I thought.

, did it become increasingly difficult to hide these transitions taking place? Well, you know, so here's the weird part. , everybody had a perception of who I was. So all these physical changes that are going on. They just overlook them. Right. They don't notice there's only one person in that window, in that timeframe that had any sort of question in their mind.

It was one of my colleagues' spouses apparently I was looking fairly, fairly chesty. I'm not chesty, but I was looking fairly chesty. She goes home that night and she goes, Hey, you know, I was talking with Randy today is she is, is, is Randy transgender. And everyone was like, no, not a chance. And she's like, wow. Looks to me like, yeah, So it got harder and harder to hide. And I knew that, and I was at the point where I needed to continue, the journey

I'm actually so happy for this part of your life now, because I feel like you have sacrificed, like you have known this. I don't know. Maybe like 30 years ago, I'm only speculating. , you're being very generous.

Sorry, let's go. It's over 50 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That you've known for such a long time and you have given service to your country. You've gave them servers to your family. You've given service to the church and now it's time for you, right. It's time for you to finally be able to have that investment in yourself.

I've said this before, you know, I didn't get to walk down an aisle in a dress.

I didn't get to be a soccer mom. I didn't get a, a career woman or anything like that. I am now I'm a career woman now, but you know, a young career woman and all of those things.

And I have a choice now. I can either be moan the fact that I didn't get those experiences and opportunities, or I can, accept what I have been blessed with and what I've been given. And that is, I am a woman who gets to live the latter part of her professional career, doing something she enjoys a great deal.

And I, I pass through the world. The most comfortable that I have been in my life. Well, Randy, we've got to have you on for a second time. We're not even halfway through our questions here. I know there is such a wealth that you have to share with us. And I look forward to a part two, like this does not have to be your last time on the show.

So you have, you have done some incredible work field, logically you have a plethora of experience, and I hope, , we will have you back on soon because we need your voice in this space.

I just want to ask you one last thing before we go, you know, uh, there's Ari story came out awhile back and there have been some responses. And I, and I found this response that I felt like was very typical probably of something you would find in the church. And I'm curious about what your response would be, because maybe people listening to this program might have heard these things or have internalize it in some ways.

So I want to read just a small part, so our listeners can hear what this is, and then I want to hear kind of your response to this. It says, um, you know, suppose the student says I mail genetically and physically, but in my mind, I feel like I'm in a female body. My male body has felt alien to me. And I'm only comfortable when I make myself look as female as possibly it's.

I can, if a student makes a statement to that effect, what is the university's interest in highly monitoring their clothes? Set in another way. I think bodily dysphoria is. It seems to be some form of mental illness or disorder. I don't see it as something to be celebrated except as someone's ease of their discomfort.

And then he goes on, I'm assuming it's a person of a male gender. I don't know. Or this person goes on to say, you know, they don't think that the transgender is a misnomer. , the pronouns are courtesies, not verities that they make a lot of these statements that I think people are trying to say, you know, , that the dysphoria that you feel is not necessarily grounded in reality.

And what would you have to say to these types of statements and people who hear those types of statements so briefly, because this is hours worth of topic briefly. , the fact that transgender people exist. It's a scientific reality. , we don't know the exact why's and the exact house and the interactions that are there.

It is a scientific reality. We're not mentally ill. , we're not crazy. , this idea that I was born with a narrative that was created a long time ago for deep complex reasons, we don't have time for about, I was born in the wrong body, et cetera, et cetera. Honestly, I was born in the body. I was born in I right wrong or otherwise I have some things about my body that as I was born, probably didn't match what was in my, in my brain, how my brain was, was arranged.

, That doesn't mean that it's, it's a mental illness. It just means that my head and certain parts of my body don't match real well. Um, and so for this, well, you know, if all you're going to do is offer me courtesy, I'll take your courtesy, but that's pretty thin.

Take the time to, to get to know the science that's there. Every geneticist, , human developmental list who is, , worth their salt will, tell you that it's it's part it's somewhere in the genetic epigenetic or developmental human developmental process in utero, , causes people to be transferred.

And it just is what it is. We're not a big part of the population I get that, you know, realistically the numbers are somewhere around 1% of the population and that's statistically works with the science by the way. So, people who see the world is binary when it comes to gender or sex, , just are ignoring a huge wealth of science that now exists that tells us that sex or slash gender is continuum.

Not, not by an, and when you wrap your head around the idea of continuum, continuum opens that door to the complexity of the human race, and that continuum is necessary. That we're all different. If we didn't have these continuums, we'd all be the same cookie cutter, same color, same hair, same eye, same shape, face, same voice.

All of that stuff. , I am an opinion that the creator of the universe, one of the creators greatest loves is variety. I believe we have to do is look at creation, the animals, the plants, the mountains, the Hills, the valleys deserts, forests. All of this, all we have to do is look at the world that we live in to realize that the creator created variety.

And we're part of that variety. Those of us who are LGBTQ. We're part of that beautiful mosaic, which creates the amazingness that makes each of us individuals K straight, CIS, trans, whatever,

Very eloquently put. And I just want to say thank you for taking the time to share your life, your experience, your vulnerabilities. You know, you are incredibly accomplished woman. You have been through so much in your life. I don't think there's any way that anybody could walk away from this conversation and hearing you speak and knowing your life accomplishments and say, this is a mental illness.

Like you are probably the most mentally tough people I've ever met. Um, and I just am so appreciative of the work that you're doing and the voice that you are in our community.