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Join Dr. Kim Kutsch, the brilliant mind behind CariFree, as he explores the extraordinary lives of thought leaders in the dental industry, and beyond. Contrary to Ordinary explores further than dentistry - here we unravel the minds of change-makers, paradigm shifters, and world shakers.
Every two weeks, we dive into the stories of our remarkable guests—ordinary people who continually defy limits. Discover their tales of success, resilience, and self-awareness, and explore how they leverage these experiences not only to elevate dental practice and patient care but also to champion personal growth and entrepreneurship. Listen for captivating conversations with innovators who seamlessly blend art and technology, pursue curiosity, and create the truly extraordinary.
Contrary to Ordinary isn't your typical dentistry podcast—it's a vibrant community that's hit #1 in ‘Entrepreneurship,’ #3 in ‘Business,’ and #21 in ‘All Podcasts’ for a reason. We've had the pleasure of hosting inspiring guests like innovators, dental leaders, pioneering inventors, and artists, including Angus Walls, Machell Hudson, Dr. Simon McDonald, Dr. Bobby Birdi, Rella Christensen, Professor Phillip D. Marsh, Carmen Ohling, John Kois, Dr. Susan Maples, Doug Young, Colt Idol, Stephanie Staples, and many more who've graced our mic.
Each episode isn't just a listen; it's a lesson in living an extraordinary life authentically, embracing rebellion, and nurturing leadership. We dive into diverse topics, from mentoring, coaching, personal development, and work-life balance to self-awareness, emotional intelligence, leadership, storytelling, altruism, and motivation. And yes, we also cover dentistry—exploring natural dentists, dental health, dental laboratories, oral care, oral surgery, dental hygiene, caries disease, brushing teeth, and overall tooth care.
Tune in to Contrary to Ordinary for a unique blend of wisdom that goes beyond the ordinary and resonates with all aspects of life! This podcast aims to empower you to be extraordinary in your dental practice and improve not just your dental care but your overall life!
Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share with us? Or perhaps a question for Dr. Kutsch. Contact us on our Instagram, Facebook or Twitter today.
About Our Host:
Meet Dr. Kim Kutsch: a retired dentist with 40 years of experience, prolific writer, thought leader, inventor, and researcher in dental caries and minimally invasive dentistry, brings his insatiable curiosity to the forefront. Eager to learn from those breaking boundaries in dentistry, particularly in preventative and non-invasive dentistry approaches, Dr. Kutsch launched the Contrary to Ordinary podcast. As a keen creative and curious mind, Dr. Kutsch extends his podcast guest list to artists, entrepreneurs, and fascinating minds who have piqued his interest. He wants to learn from them and see how he can be inspired by their extraordinary ways of living and adapt his learnings into his own life and his business, CariFree.
About CariFree:
CariFree is the new model for oral health and cavity prevention. Dr. Kutsch is the CEO and founder of this business. They create cutting-edge technology and science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, making it easy to banish cavities for good with preventive strategies over restorative procedures. Find out how dentists are using CariFree products to revolutionize their dental practices here: https://carifree.com/success-stories/.
Recording:
Extraordinary.
Leader.
Innovative.
Integrity.
Honest.
Courageous.
Curious.
Thoughtful.
Brave.
Unafraid.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There is a place where technology and art meet, where work and play are one and the same, When the threads of curiosity are pulled in this place, the spark of innovation ripples across industries. Those who make this place their home are giants, titans who pursue creative passion while leaving their mark.
Recording:
Creative.
Flexible.
Brilliant.
Clever.
Confident.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They are courageous thought leaders set on changing the practice of dentistry in their corner of the world. More than the sum of their parts, we deconstruct the traits that bind these uncommon innovators.
Recording:
Humble.
Daring.
Disciplined.
Playful.
Principled.
Spontaneous.
Open.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
To discover what makes them Contrary To Ordinary, where we explore the extraordinary.
Hi there. I'm Dr. Kim Kutcsh, host and founder at CariFree. I'm fascinated by what makes the paradigm shifter, world shakers and art makers tick. Let's embark on a journey. Extraordinary is a place where ordinary people choose to exist. Together, we will trek the peaks of possibility, illuminate the depths of resilience and navigate the boundless landscape of innovation to discover how some of the most innovative dentists and thought leaders unlock their potential and became extraordinary.
On Contrary To Ordinary, we explore the motivation, lives and characters of the innovators who see limitless potential around them, the people behind some of the largest paradigm shifts in the practice of dentistry and beyond.
I want to start this episode by mentioning two very special anniversaries. The first is this is the first anniversary of this show. It's been an incredible year, and I hope you've gotten as much out of these conversations as I have. This experience has really been life changing for me. I want to thank every single one of my guests for their honesty, vulnerability and generosity.
CariFree also has a big birthday this month, the big 2-0. I can hardly believe it's been 20 years since I started this journey. I'm so grateful to all of my team, collaborators, mentors, and encouragers who helped me grow this amazing company to where it is today. I couldn't have done it without you.
I'm also excited to share that we're making a few changes on the show in the not-too-distant future. During Oral Cancer Awareness Month in April, we're going to be talking to some extraordinary people who will be sharing their extraordinary cancer journeys. Stay tuned for next month and be on the lookout for some other longer term changes down the track. But for now, back to today's regular programming.
This is part two of my interview with Dr. Betsy Bakeman, a private practice owner and expert in restorative and cosmetic dentistry. Betsy is included in an elite group of less than 300 dentists worldwide who are credited by the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, the AACD. In fact, she is one of 50 dentists worldwide and the first dentist in Michigan to have achieved the distinction of being an Accredited Fellow of the AACD.
In part one, Betsy talked about the people who first saw promise in her and what that encouragement did for her career and confidence. She also discussed what teaching others means to her, and how feedback from her peers makes her a better dentist. Personally, I think dentistry is an art form and many of the people I've spoken to on the show have an artistic flair. I wonder if this is the same for Betsy?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I was interested in architecture. Remember the little trolls?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I would design houses for my trolls when I was little. It was structural. I was very interested, I would make little elevators for them, so architecture, yes. Painting, maybe not so much, or drawing. But architecture, yes. Then it was another thing, in middle school they told me, "No, women are not architects." I was discouraged from doing that. I think I drove the architect crazy when I was designing my office because he would send me the plans, and I would sit at night with tracing paper, and redo things. I worked for hours, and hours, and hours. I said it must be hard because that's what he did, was dental offices. I said, "It must be hard working with dentists because I'm sure we're all very particular about what we want and redraw things." He said, "No, not so much. You're unique in that."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh. Working with dentists is easy, you are the problem.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yes, exactly. I gave him a run for his money. He tried to talk me out of certain things, but I knew what I wanted and I could see it. I knew how it was going to look. In fact, patients would say, "Was it a surprise, the things that you weren't happy with?" I said, "No, I knew exactly how it was going to look." I could walk through the space, just seeing the plans.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Betsy, I'm leading you down a path here. One of the things that I find absolutely fascinating about you, and I'm curious about, and I want your take on this, is the entire world of our profession is going digital. It's gone digital. In fact, John here at the Kois Center has taken dentistry into a digital realm that the rest of the world isn't aware of, in my mind. Here you are, teaching the most analog of all classes in the world. You're teaching dentists, you have a class here a program here, on teaching wax up. When we started out in dental training and dental school, we were taught to create teeth out of wax. As we were making crowns, or evaluating bites and creating smiles, we would carve and actually structure those teeth initially out of wax, and then we would use the jewelry lost wax casting technique to make a gold crown, or to make a metal substructure for a porcelain crown at the time.
Now that's all shifted to CAD cam. It's all computerized, it's all digital. You can sit down and design somebody's entire smile on a computer, design an individual crown. I've watched lab techs, young kids, design a crown in under 30 seconds on a computer. It's just mind-boggling because that used to take a technician, with wax and a flame, a good one maybe 30 minutes or longer to just do an individual tooth.
Here we are in this world of digital and you have sold out classes of teaching dentists how to create teeth out of wax. Explain that to me.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It does seem odd, doesn't it? It's more than just making a tooth out of wax. It is about taking the principles that John teaches us, of where do you want to put the upper biting edge and then the posterior biting edges in the face. The same with the lower arch. There are some aesthetic principles that go into that. But then, we have to close the teeth together. That's the functional part of it, how the teeth bite and chew. As we change vertical components, horizontal relationships change. Then, what can we do to the individual teeth horizontally to make that work? Or will it work to have things the way we want it aesthetically, or do we have to make some compromises? It's folding those two pieces together and it's three-dimensional. It's in all planes.
When you're working on a computer, it's made to look three-dimensional but it's really two-dimensional so there's a jump there. The more someone has worked in three-dimensions on models, the better they're able to make that jump. John, he's put in the 10,000 hours. He used to do his own lab work. He's waxed thousands of cases, and then he's guided his technicians to be able to do it for him in a way he wants. He can see it and he knows. But even then, he'll say sometimes he'll get things back in 3D and he has to make some alterations.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I want to interject here, to talk a little bit about the 10,000 hours of study that Betsy mentioned. The theory suggests that if you invest 10,000 hours into anything, you will master it. This theory is incredibly popular and just sounds so simple, right?
Well, it's actually more complicated than you might think. The theory was first widely popularized by the Canadian journalist, Malcolm Gladwell, in his 2008 book Outliers. Gladwell wasn't the first person to develop it, but he is responsible for how well known the 10,000-hour roadmap to success is today. 10 years after the publication of Outliers, Gladwell reflected that talent, quality of learning and availability of feedback also play a role in how long it can take for someone to achieve mastery. I think this is true, but I would suggest that the environment that you learn in also plays a critical role in rapid development. If you're fortunate enough to be in a supportive environment, then learning can be further accelerated.
I had my first Contrary To Ordinary conversation with Dr. John Kois a year ago. I think he's someone who has provided a learning environment that encourages learning and compresses those 10,000 hours. Here he is, discussing how he created a supportive learning environment at the Kois Center.
Dr. John Kois:
I like to say, it's also a famous quote, "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." I think that, as you put that together, I feel that people really flourish in an environment they're comfortable with. If that's not going to happen, the education is much harder, you have to feel like it's being pushed into you rather than just absorbed into you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There you have it. Those 10,000 hours can be spent in a lot of different ways, but it certainly helps if you have a supportive environment to learn in. Back to Betsy now, who is talking about how John creates 3D models to help his students learn.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It helps people connect the dots to look at things in three-dimensions, and we do it in a very systematic way that manageable for them. They may not ultimately wax the whole case to do the dentistry, they may send it off, but they'll be better at guiding their technician how to do it digitally. Instead of just sending it off and saying, "Design this." Because when they do that, they have no idea how it got there. That's true for a wax up as well. If we send those analog models off to the lab and we say, "Wax up these teeth," and we don't have an understanding how the laboratory achieved that, we have difficulty in doing the treatment.
Then the bits that we do about smile design, to be able to show dentists if we change the angles on this tooth, how it changed the appearance of it. It helps them not just with their porcelain work, but it helps them in their provisional restorations, in doing composites, everything about it. As you said, we learned how to wax individual teeth in dental school, and most of us found it very frustrating. But we didn't learn a lot about smile design, we didn't learn a lot about function. When we graduated from dental school, we delegated that to the lab. Ironically, sadly, a lot of dentists don't really know tooth anatomy. They don't understand how teeth should look in relationship to each other. They don't know what would be aesthetic, and it's delegated to the laboratory, so our outcomes are based on the expertise of our laboratory. They may or may not really be able to achieve what we want to achieve for the patient.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We may be limited by our technician, based on what we're trying to accomplish. It's interesting hearing you explain this, Betsy. It's about being able to see it in 3D, in your hands. Feel it, touch it, see it. It's about the aesthetics of the smile design, and how changing line angles and moving teeth can change the appearance of the smile. It's about seeing how the teeth relate to function, how they chew together, being able to create that smile that is functional as well as attractive. Then, it's about understanding tooth anatomy as well, on a real, I think, high level. Would that be a fair statement?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yes, very much so. That's the feedback we get from the course and that's why they're there. They're there to be able to have greater understanding of all those things, that's why the students are there.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. I would just share this with you, Betsy. From anybody that I've talked to that's taken your class, they've all said to me, "It's one of the best classes I've ever taken."
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yeah. It's not just the class. It's all the Kois principles, all the things that John has taught them, start to gel in three-dimensions. That's why it feels so good to them, because it's an amalgamation of everything they've learned.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So they're going to then take this analog knowledge, and be able to better visualize in that digital, two-dimensional, three-dimensional image of where they're headed with, in terms of designing somebody's smile, creating a complete restorative case, a complex restoration of somebody's smile.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yes. It can be from very simple cases to more complex cases. It helps them put all of that together. And it helps them segment treatment. When they've put in the time of working through this, then you go back to the patient and there are very few patients that want to, it may be time limitations, financial limitations, whatever, can do the amount of dentistry that needs to be done all at once. Maybe that's not even the best thing for us, either. Sometimes it's more manageable to segment treatment. But when we've worked on the models in that way and the patient gives us some financial boundaries that we need to stay within in any given year, we can look at that treatment in an easier way. Say, "Okay, I think this would be a great way to segment this treatment. Yes, we can then accomplish this outcome over two years," and we're able to do that. Or three years, or four years, whatever it is. Dentists are definitely better able to manage that as well.
When I've worked on some models and I've worked through things, and the patient gives me a financial constraint, I almost like it. It's just this other little piece now that I have to work in, and it's a little bit of a challenge. To think about how I'm going to manage the bite, and manage the aesthetics, and how we're going to make this work and spread it out over time, "Oh, this is fun. This is how we can do this."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It takes some of that pressure off too, of having to do all of this work all now, and having it done immediately, you can do it in pieces. It takes, I think, the stress and the pressure off of you, as the practitioner, being able to segment and spread that treatment over a little longer period of time.
Hi, Contrary To Ordinary listeners. We're going to take a short break from this conversation for our segment, Questions With Dr. Kim. Don't go anywhere. In this segment, I'll answer a listener's question about their dental health. If you have a dental question that you want answered, then send it to podcast@carifree.com, and add Questions With Dr. Kim in the subject line. If your question gets read out on the show, then we'll send you a small gift to say thanks for checking in.
This week's question reads, "Hi, Dr. Kim. Is using a mouth rinse after working out harmful?" Using a mouth rinse after working out is generally not harmful and can have several potential benefits for your oral health and overall wellbeing. However, it's important to choose the right mouth rinse and use it appropriately to maximize its benefits and avoid any potential issues. Benefits of using a mouth rinse after workouts are they can freshen breath, reduce bacterial load and help remove food particles. Select the right mouth rinse and use it appropriately. Look for a rinse that is not alcohol based, contains fluoride or nano HA, has antibacterial properties and controls bad breath. Remember to stay hydrated after a workout and maintain good oral hygiene. Mouth rinses are not a substitute for brushing and flossing. If you have any questions, consult your dental professional for recommendations.
If you, dear listener, would like more information on all things dental, then head to carifree.com/podcast, where we've got more resources on dental health and our line of CariFree products that can help you keep a healthy smile. But right now, let's get back to the conversation.
What accomplishment in your life are you most proud of?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It's interesting, Kim, that I'm often not one to look back. That's a hard question for me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You tend to look forward?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I tend to look forward.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Not live in the past. You always have sights set on the goal ahead. No, I think that's a trait that's common with extraordinary people. They tend not to spend a lot of time dwelling on past accomplishments. They always tend to be future focused, trying to figure out what's next for them, what can they learn next, what can they do next. But it could be personal or professional, it's just reflecting back on your life, is there anything that stands out that you'd say, "You know, I'm really proud of that?"
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yeah. I'm proud of my family. Jim and I have been married for close to 40 years. I'm proud of my daughters. I'm proud of who they chose to marry. I'm proud of how they're raising their children. I'm proud that they consider family important. I truly believe it's very important to a person's wellbeing. That's the first thing that comes to mind for me is my family.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
When you think about your own life as well, what are a couple of traits about yourself that you value most?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
It's just grit. We all get knocked down. It's not that I don't feel sad, or embarrassed, or that I didn't measure up, or I didn't get that done in time, or whatever it is. But then, I'm quick to let that go and just make it right. I will work hard. I will make it happen. I'm proud of that characteristic in me, and I think that characteristic is true for a lot of people that just keep pushing. It's important. I won't allow myself to feel sorry for myself for too long. Maybe that was my grandmother way back when saying, "Quit whining, don't feel sorry for yourself." I have a lot of that in me, of just get up and move on.
Attention to detail, although sometimes I have too many things going on and I can't give it all the attention I want. But that's probably a characteristic that drives my family a little crazy, maybe my staff members a little crazy, is attention to detail. But patients appreciate it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, absolutely. When you think about extraordinary, how would you define extraordinary people? How would you describe them?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
You know, you've talked about extraordinary people, and I'm uncomfortable with you even putting me in that category. Because I'm curious why you even think that, because I don't feel that way. Then I have to ask myself, "Well, what do I think is an extraordinary person?" For me, extraordinary people, they do something exceptional, they are exceptional. I think of John Kois as an extraordinary person.
One of the qualities I admire most about him, and maybe this is true across the board, is that he sees things in other people that they don't see in themselves. He's one of those people. He's truly interested in other people. He has this amazing memory that is a gift that he's been given, but he uses it in a very wise way.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
He's very genuine.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yes. I really admire that. He's giving. He gives to others. He's self-sacrificing.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Humble.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yeah, very humble.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Kind.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Grateful.
I think it's ironic that someone like John Kois, a clearly extraordinary person, sees things in other people that they don't see in themselves. In a year of doing this podcast, it still surprises me that so many extraordinary people just don't see themselves that way. But maybe that's a part of it, maybe you need that humility to be truly great.
At this point in our conversation, I asked Betsy to tell me about what gets her excited these days.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I mean, whenever I'm teaching, I'm always seeing where things didn't quite connect and I always have ideas about how to make it better. It's just finding the time to fold that in. Things with my practice, of helping patients, I love it all. I love all that. I love spending time with my grandchildren. I love even seeing them learn and teaching them. I could spend tons of time with them. I really enjoy that as well. I love fitness, I love wellness and health, and I love learning about all the new science that's coming out about that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It sounds like you're in a really happy place in your life.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Yes, very much so.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Oh, that's cool. What do you have planned for the future? Where does Betsy Bakeman go from here?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I want to continue to practice great dentistry. I think we do some amazing things. I have an amazing team of staff members. What we provide in our practice, I just feel like is exceptional. We're taking a big trip this next year, to celebrate our 20 years in the current building that we're in. I'm really excited to be able to do that with my team.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Where are you going?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
We're going to a spa in Tucson, and they're going to be able to exercise, and take hikes, and have spa treatments every day. It's really just going to be just all about making them happy and eat good, healthy food. It'll be a blast.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I'm excited.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That sounds fun.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
I'm excited about that. Trips with my husband, he just retired this past July. We've always traveled a lot and taken time, time with the family.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Where's your favorite place to travel to?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
All over. We were just in Iceland, that was a great trip. We did the Ring Road, and saw puffins, and walked rims of volcanoes, and midnight whale watched. Going there in June was spectacular. I want to get to Patagonia. I love having some kind of physical challenge. One of my patients told me about the W Hike there, I really want to do that. Yeah, just all over. It's fun to have those new experiences.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
What is one of the things about you that you would say people don't know?
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
One of the things about me that people don't know? Yeah, I don't know, Kim. I'm pretty face value. Every once in a while, someone may have walked by me and later on they might have said, "Oh, you didn't say hi. I thought maybe you were mad at me." Meanwhile, my mind was off-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Some place else.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Some place else. I'd say, "Oh, I'm so sorry." I said, "But if I was upset with you, you would know it. I would say what it is." You don't have to read between the lines with me, because I try to communicate. I always struggle with people that expect me to read between the lines because I don't at all. I don't think I'm as sensitive to those things because that's not how I communicate.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, that's cool. All right, well as we're closing here and wrapping up, Betsy, I really appreciate you being with us today.
Dr. Betsy Bakeman:
Thank you, Kim. This has been great.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
When I think of Betsy, I think of excellence. I think of a meticulous nature that puts attention to detail right at the heart of everything. But more than anything, I think of someone who doesn't rest on their laurels and doesn't dwell on past successes, setting her sights on the future.
Thank you so much to Dr. Betsy Bakeman, for joining me on this show today. Around here, we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile or scratched that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. If you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary.