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' - Mining the hearts and minds of unorthodox teachers'
The Junkyard Love Podcast is for people who know they’re meant for more - but don’t want to take someone else's route.
These are longform, soul-level conversations with thinkers, artists, mystics, scientists, teachers, philosophers, leaders, comedians, authors, musicians, educators, misfits, millionaires, meditators, psychologists, and much more - and they've burned down their old beliefs to build something truer. This is a show for the life-long learner. Each episode offers real-life insight - and it could be the exact part that our soul-vehicles need to hear, in that precise moment. The Junkyard Love Podcast - for a better life.
So if I ask you, Mister Blake, hello. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for your time.
00:03:03:07 - 00:03:11:14
Speaker 2
I appreciate you, man. It's, I'm looking forward to chatting. If I had to, put you in a rear naked choke and say, give me a bio.
00:03:11:16 - 00:03:12:16
Speaker 1
What? Oh, yeah.
00:03:12:16 - 00:03:14:12
Speaker 2
What would come out?
00:03:14:14 - 00:03:16:00
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:03:16:02 - 00:03:18:21
Speaker 1
I am,
00:03:18:23 - 00:03:22:20
Speaker 3
I always want to go with, like, accolades. Right. The achievements. I've done this.
00:03:22:20 - 00:03:24:06
Speaker 1
I've done this.
00:03:24:08 - 00:03:34:03
Speaker 3
But I think, you know, I'm a mathematician that works in, software engineering and machine learning.
00:03:35:11 - 00:03:46:08
Speaker 3
I have a very diverse background across many different things, you know, healthcare, pure mathematics, statistics, machine learning, as we just talked about, you.
00:03:46:08 - 00:03:47:05
Speaker 1
Know.
00:03:47:07 - 00:03:51:01
Speaker 3
Multi, multi functional human being, maybe.
00:03:51:03 - 00:03:52:11
Speaker 1
Yes, I can get way to put it.
00:03:52:14 - 00:04:07:11
Speaker 2
I know I have, I have a friend who works in the, in lab events just like as a creative everything. And she, she introduced me to the term multifaceted and I know it's not like I've heard it, but I, I love considering my, like art in career path is as multifaceted. So.
00:04:07:14 - 00:04:10:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, you seem very. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah.
00:04:10:06 - 00:04:11:13
Speaker 3
Multifaceted. Yeah.
00:04:11:15 - 00:04:13:00
Speaker 1
Well, what do you have?
00:04:13:02 - 00:04:31:23
Speaker 2
What's been on your mind lately, man? What's, you know, so something that you and I connect. We're longtime friends. You know, we haven't stayed, like, incredibly in touch, but I think, something that's jumped out for both of us is like, we, you know, we both love, like, rom dos and simply have gotten into meditation and kind of spirituality and that sort of thing as we have gained some age in our years.
00:04:32:00 - 00:04:48:08
Speaker 2
So I definitely want to, like, lean into that. And if they want to talk about AI today, I was kind of just curious, like, like what's been on your mind lately? You know, like what's been kind of like the loudest creative thoughts or pressing thoughts or even just, like, personal, what's what's been kind of.
00:04:48:10 - 00:04:49:05
Speaker 1
Your.
00:04:49:05 - 00:04:52:00
Speaker 2
Personal, obtuse thoughts lately? What do you been thinking about?
00:04:52:02 - 00:04:55:17
Speaker 3
Yeah, I've been in therapy for, like, a year now.
00:04:56:19 - 00:05:16:01
Speaker 3
And what's actually been on my mind a lot is my therapist, like, a month or two ago? Said we were. We were talking about stuff and and things kind of were getting a little bit tense. And I have this tendency to just, like, remove myself or start explaining, but like, oh yeah, that sucks. But, you know, like it's cool.
00:05:16:01 - 00:05:36:18
Speaker 3
I got all this going on and stuff, and she kind of slowed me down and she was like, I feel most connected with you when you're feeling. And I was like, no one's ever said anything like that to me before. And, you know, it just like I think about it all the time. It changed so much about me.
00:05:36:18 - 00:05:59:06
Speaker 3
All of a sudden I felt like, you know, we were talking about the meditation stuff. Like, I picked up meditation, got it around us. Also like a year and a half ago, started really kind of thinking about those things. And so I had this like level of calm, but like knowing that there's someone in the world that's like, yeah, I like when you.
00:05:59:06 - 00:06:01:02
Speaker 1
Feel like.
00:06:01:04 - 00:06:09:01
Speaker 3
I'm here with you, when you feel, it was just like life changing, super, super strange and.
00:06:09:03 - 00:06:09:23
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:06:10:00 - 00:06:12:14
Speaker 2
Do you feel like it? You know, a lot of.
00:06:12:14 - 00:06:13:24
Speaker 1
The core of.
00:06:14:01 - 00:06:14:20
Speaker 2
Feelings.
00:06:14:20 - 00:06:15:19
Speaker 1
Is.
00:06:15:21 - 00:06:42:21
Speaker 2
Allowing them, like, letting feelings to be there and sounds like so on the surface. But sometimes that is the biggest thing is we have so many responses and ways that have we've utilized to our benefit to protect ourselves from like very intense feelings sometimes. And sometimes it makes it to where we just, you know, we numb. We numb or move away from, from big feelings in some sort of way.
00:06:42:24 - 00:06:58:23
Speaker 2
So what's it been like for you? Like. Like what is that? You know, trying to bring intellect into a, you know, a feeling. It's difficult. But but what's that been like for you to think about? You know, like, have you been noticing where you've been? Kind of like not letting your feelings be okay and your relationships and stuff.
00:06:58:23 - 00:06:59:22
Speaker 2
What do you think?
00:06:59:24 - 00:07:26:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that there's two components to it. So like on one side, you know, we as a culture, we kind of work on this model that when we have emotions, it's not, worth experiencing that we should, you know, emotions are just noise. You know, we should be very logical. We should always think about things. We should always, you know, all that kind of stuff.
00:07:26:02 - 00:07:37:20
Speaker 3
Like, you should never listen to your emotions and, I had a teacher in college once that was like, emotions are information. You'd be stupid to just ignore it, you.
00:07:37:20 - 00:07:38:16
Speaker 1
Know, like.
00:07:38:18 - 00:08:00:02
Speaker 3
And I think that that's a powerful statement. It's great to think about emotions as information rather than just like foundational truth that can be philosophize. And, you know, we can, like, come to some kind of dialectic or something about our feelings always. Like, it can't just be that like, oh, I feel sad because this is happening in the world or whatever.
00:08:00:04 - 00:08:21:00
Speaker 3
So the way that, that, that it's like the first part about it and then the second part, which is more to your question about how it has changed things for me or how I've noticed it. I think that, I actually tie this back to what Ron Das talks about, where like, you can't become nobody before you become somebody, you know, you gotta like, go through it.
00:08:21:06 - 00:08:29:02
Speaker 3
And I remember sitting with my therapist saying, like, I'm great at the second ass.
00:08:29:04 - 00:08:30:00
Speaker 1
I'm like.
00:08:30:02 - 00:08:52:05
Speaker 3
Fantastic at being like, okay. Like we're going to cope with these emotions. We're going to like, go forward. Like I'm going to go on a walk. I'm going to do all these things to like stop the feelings. But like, I haven't done that first work of feeling it. You know, I haven't become somebody in my emotions and that makes me feel less safe for people around me.
00:08:52:10 - 00:09:14:12
Speaker 3
And it feels less authentic. And so it's really nice to kind of start showing up and start being a little bit more patient with myself and with others around me. I think it makes me a safer person to be around because people can kind of like trust, like, oh yeah, like upset flakes, happy. Like.
00:09:14:14 - 00:09:16:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, it's actually there.
00:09:16:13 - 00:09:34:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's so nice. I think you use the word authentic very nicely there. I think that is kind of what, what the core of it is. I, I'm trying to think about, it was profound for me to have someone repeat like I had heard it before, but someone was talking about on a podcast about how, like, oh, even Jesus flipped tables to me.
00:09:35:00 - 00:09:56:01
Speaker 2
Like there was something about when I first heard it. Like when someone had repeated it back on a podcast, just kind of the context that they were putting it in was just like this sudden, oh, man, okay. Like, it's okay, I can make human. I'm going to have emotions. And in rejecting them or trying to make a new identity of some dude who doesn't have bad emotions ever, because he's just super peaceful and he's the meditator.
00:09:56:02 - 00:09:58:14
Speaker 1
Okay, good. You know. Yeah. It's like you're you're.
00:09:58:15 - 00:10:09:04
Speaker 2
You're not allowing to that authentic authenticity. Like you said, you're kind of like you're blocking off what's really happening in favor of trying to just feel good all the time, which is.
00:10:09:04 - 00:10:10:15
Speaker 1
Like the.
00:10:10:17 - 00:10:22:12
Speaker 2
Like biggest, maybe not the biggest, but like one of the more for me personally anyway, on the spiritual path, like trying to make sure everybody knows I'm like this meditative guy.
00:10:22:14 - 00:10:23:02
Speaker 1
Trying to make sure.
00:10:23:02 - 00:10:40:24
Speaker 2
Everybody knows I'm I'm real calm and for the most part, like without even thinking about it or trying to control anybody's image of me, I can come across, you know, I meditate in the mornings, and so it generally does make me calmer for the rest of the day, like, but that's not like it's still okay to get upset.
00:10:40:24 - 00:10:44:01
Speaker 2
And like sometimes you got a you flip a table, you know.
00:10:44:07 - 00:10:44:19
Speaker 1
It may it's.
00:10:44:19 - 00:10:54:21
Speaker 2
Not like I don't know, it's. Yeah. Just allowing emotions. It turns out to be like in one of the more difficult, lifelong parts of her journey. Right.
00:10:54:24 - 00:10:55:22
Speaker 1
Allowing. Yeah.
00:10:56:03 - 00:11:05:19
Speaker 3
Yeah. You're talking about a dharmic anger, right? Like anger that serves a purpose that comes from a place inside yourself. That's true.
00:11:05:21 - 00:11:06:09
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:11:06:11 - 00:11:40:00
Speaker 3
And that's, you know, when Jesus starts flipping tables, he's not doing that, in just because he's angry, you know, just because it's like, this doesn't serve any purpose. I'm just freaking out, you know? That's like anger to serve a purpose of highlighting his point or to, you know, bring something better into the space, right? Ram Dass talks all the time about how Maharaj would say to him, like, get out of here, chow down, you know, and it was always kind of just like, you know, it was intense and stuff, but you can tell it was coming from a place of love.
00:11:40:02 - 00:11:48:07
Speaker 3
And I think that when you talk about anger and and emotions that we as a society tend to just kind of be like.
00:11:48:09 - 00:11:48:15
Speaker 1
You know.
00:11:48:17 - 00:11:57:10
Speaker 3
People tighten up around you. Definitely. I want to work towards like, yeah, just feeling the full range of emotions and being safe in it.
00:11:57:12 - 00:11:58:15
Speaker 1
Right? Yeah.
00:11:58:17 - 00:12:01:21
Speaker 2
I mean, think about as a young kid.
00:12:01:23 - 00:12:03:04
Speaker 1
You know, where we're.
00:12:03:04 - 00:12:27:18
Speaker 2
Observing the adults around us to learn just how to do things and how to react. Yes. And and, you know, like, I think it's a mistake for us as, as the adults in the room to reject what we're really feeling or like, you know, have a have a young kid think that when they're frustrated, what they really need to do is like, be happy because people don't like you when you're when you're angry, people aren't going to.
00:12:27:23 - 00:12:41:23
Speaker 2
Your friends don't want to hang out with you when you're when you're upset. And there's this balance, I'm sure, like, you know, I, I'm not a father, but I'm sure there is a balance of, like, teaching them, hey, it's okay to have that anger. Like, hey, I'd be frustrated too. That makes sense hearing them out, being with them.
00:12:42:00 - 00:13:09:11
Speaker 2
But let's feel through that emotion not as a way to negate it right away. Or like, all right, you got to feel it so you can get rid of it. You know, that's another trap. But yeah, allowing it to be there, allowing it to work through. And then on the other side, when you're when you're biology, when your body isn't so, you know, attacked or you know, at one with the emotions like just kind of attention we all get when it comes to any sort of deep emotion, especially anger.
00:13:09:13 - 00:13:11:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. We can kind of like, allow it to go through and.
00:13:11:17 - 00:13:13:07
Speaker 1
Then, you know, feel the.
00:13:13:09 - 00:13:32:07
Speaker 2
The lessening of our shoulders and like, the, our face can kind of drop like, okay, I'll let that thing pass through. It had something to teach me. I was angry because in the future when that same thing comes up, it's okay to be angry, but I can actually, like, not let it catch me off guard so much because I've now learned a little bit.
00:13:32:07 - 00:13:39:18
Speaker 2
You know, it's, it's a biggest problem, I don't know. I love that you mentioned that, like, right off the bat and, like, allowing yourself to feel what.
00:13:39:18 - 00:13:44:23
Speaker 1
You're really feeling. That's profound. Yeah. You got to you got to go through it.
00:13:45:00 - 00:13:54:16
Speaker 3
It's not like you're saying. Yeah, we we definitely just as a society, it would be better if, if in my opinion, not that I'm king of the world or anything.
00:13:54:16 - 00:13:58:19
Speaker 1
But, you are. Here's the Kleenex. You the big.
00:13:58:19 - 00:14:00:00
Speaker 3
Giant skeleton key.
00:14:00:01 - 00:14:01:17
Speaker 1
Tell us what to do. This is have.
00:14:01:17 - 00:14:03:01
Speaker 2
You seen Idiocracy, that.
00:14:03:01 - 00:14:11:00
Speaker 1
Movie where. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're so smart and spiritual. If we get a cell phone from.
00:14:11:02 - 00:14:12:08
Speaker 1
Mexico.
00:14:12:10 - 00:14:15:05
Speaker 3
Now to put, Gatorade on our flowers and stuff.
00:14:15:06 - 00:14:16:24
Speaker 1
You know.
00:14:17:01 - 00:14:20:14
Speaker 2
That. It's crazy. I want to rewatch that show, but I also think it's going to feel more like a Black Mirror.
00:14:20:14 - 00:14:25:04
Speaker 1
Episode than it will. Oh, no. Movie, Yeah.
00:14:25:04 - 00:14:28:01
Speaker 3
It was weird, even back when it came out, just in terms of like.
00:14:28:01 - 00:14:30:00
Speaker 1
How poignant it.
00:14:30:00 - 00:14:36:12
Speaker 3
Felt. And it's weird. Yeah. Thinking about it now being like, oh, so much of it is more relevant.
00:14:36:14 - 00:14:39:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. I, you know, it always it always sparks the.
00:14:39:13 - 00:14:58:23
Speaker 2
Movies like that. You know, I think I've been thinking a lot. It's kind of hard not to, but thinking about like, Brave New World and in 1984 and like those kind of like future predictive books that are kind of like laying out what seem where we seem to be headed in some ways. But I.
00:14:59:00 - 00:15:01:15
Speaker 2
I don't know, sometimes those books are just like.
00:15:01:17 - 00:15:02:01
Speaker 1
I don't know.
00:15:02:04 - 00:15:03:17
Speaker 2
Becoming aware of that stuff.
00:15:03:17 - 00:15:04:16
Speaker 1
Is just it's just.
00:15:04:16 - 00:15:23:04
Speaker 2
Heavy. And if you wonder where ideas come from, I guess basically is like, man, somebody 40 years, 50 years, 60 years before this thing happened, had these ideas, and they sat down in their apartment and just started like writing them out and creating a book that like, you know, I mean, like the writers of The Simpsons, how do they keep predicting everything?
00:15:23:04 - 00:15:33:01
Speaker 2
You know, it's interesting where, just kind of where our ideas about society as a whole kind of come from. I don't know where I was going with that, but it took us out of left field adventure.
00:15:33:03 - 00:15:41:16
Speaker 3
It wasn't that left field because all this Huxley, it's very interesting, actually. And his, you know, he wrote Brave New World and.
00:15:41:18 - 00:15:42:10
Speaker 1
He did.
00:15:42:12 - 00:15:55:19
Speaker 3
Mescaline. So he was like an early adopter of psychedelics. And then he, like, changed his whole view on things and started writing these books that were more about, like, getting in touch with yourself and stuff, so not to have it.
00:15:55:21 - 00:15:56:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:15:56:04 - 00:15:58:09
Speaker 2
Hey, see, it's all full circle, isn't it?
00:15:58:11 - 00:16:03:23
Speaker 1
It's because it's not connected like mushrooms, man. It's all connected. I.
00:16:03:23 - 00:16:05:01
Speaker 2
Was actually listening to.
00:16:05:22 - 00:16:08:04
Speaker 2
If you go to Paul Stamets, it's a mushroom.
00:16:08:07 - 00:16:09:16
Speaker 1
And. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:09:18 - 00:16:27:12
Speaker 2
He was, he was just yesterday on the new episode of Joe Rogan. I listen to a lot of Joe Rogan's podcast, and he was on there again. And just man, some of the concepts that he talks about just expand my mind into the work. I also did a little bit of mushrooms yesterday. So that's.
00:16:27:14 - 00:16:33:23
Speaker 1
Connected part. Yeah. So connected man. But,
00:16:34:00 - 00:16:38:15
Speaker 2
I don't know where I was going with that. The.
00:16:38:17 - 00:17:04:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I think psychedelics in general, because of that self-reflective, you know, it's something we, we were talking about, you know, just not long ago was feeling emotions that are really there. I remember so I did, I did microdosing of mushrooms a few years back. I've done a couple macro doses, but I done microdose just like very, I did the Paul Stamets protocol.
00:17:04:14 - 00:17:22:15
Speaker 2
I forgot exactly how much I had it all measured out. And you do lion's mane, you do niacin with it and whatnot. And I did that for, like 4 or 5 months. And dude, one of the biggest takeaways that I had, and it was frustrating for a while because you go in thinking, you know, what you need to fix about yourself when it comes to psychedelics, like,
00:17:22:17 - 00:17:23:06
Speaker 1
Oh, I need to.
00:17:23:06 - 00:17:39:18
Speaker 2
Work, blah, blah, blah. And then like, this just random left field thing comes in and you're like, I don't want to process that. Sounds gross to process and not fun. I don't want to, but I want to work on this thing. And mushrooms on psychedelics aren't like that. And one thing that I had to work with in it, I feel it made me better at my job.
00:17:39:18 - 00:18:13:19
Speaker 2
It made me more, kind of intertwined with my own masculinity for lack of maybe unless broad term was, allowing myself to feel anger at work, like, yeah, sometimes people do some fucking shit at work and you go, hey, man, that's enough of that fuck shit. Yeah, enough. Or like, someone's like jokingly playing with you, like, I'm not too caught up in, in some of the hierarchy stuff, like if you want to like, you know, like give me some shit or like, you know, I come from, like, I've worked at blue collar jobs and so sometimes you just kind of give each other shit.
00:18:13:21 - 00:18:26:16
Speaker 2
But there'd be some instances where before I was microdosing where I'd take a little bit too much and it would kind of like, you know, the person's trying to take me out to trying to take me out of the knees or like, bring me down to some level, whatever. And most I might just brush it off.
00:18:26:16 - 00:18:41:10
Speaker 2
But it's funny, when I'm on my microdosing mushrooms, you think I'd be, like, even more airy fairy about it, but I'd stand up for myself and tell people, like, now, dude, you're not going to talk to me like that? Like it's not okay. Nope, nope. We're not going to do that. Let's let's back up. Let's, listen to what you just said.
00:18:41:10 - 00:18:47:00
Speaker 2
Do you think it's okay for you to talk to me like that? Which is sound? Sounds so weird to, like, take it into this podcast conversation, but,
00:18:47:02 - 00:18:47:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, you're right.
00:18:47:22 - 00:19:10:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think, mushrooms and psychedelics and kind of like, lessening that continuous story that we always have going on, you know, we're always in loss in our stories. It's not damn thing wrong with. It's part of our experience. But breaking the the patterns of those stories, kind of getting out of those groups of our default network in our brain can kind of give us a little bit of space to like, you know what?
00:19:10:20 - 00:19:37:24
Speaker 2
I'm going to flip this fucking table because because these people are listening to me like, hey, yo, you're talking to me in a disrespectful way in this environment requires that you that that that you respect me. That sounds so intense again. But, you know, it's sometimes it just happens in a work environment. So, yeah, just allowing ourself had have you had, you know, outside of that, that conversation with your, with your counselor recently have you had any moments.
00:19:38:01 - 00:19:59:10
Speaker 2
Just like as a man as, as you know, like growing up and like trying to I don't know if the word masculine works works for you or, but just kind of like leaning into allowing aggression, allowing, like, more precise communication, those sorts of things, I don't know, does that spark anything for you, Blake? Like just being more masculine and.
00:19:59:10 - 00:20:01:10
Speaker 1
No. Yeah.
00:20:01:13 - 00:20:03:21
Speaker 3
Let's let's get into this. This is an interesting.
00:20:03:23 - 00:20:06:00
Speaker 2
I don't know what what we're going here. I guess we're going to talk.
00:20:06:02 - 00:20:29:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. No, let's do it. I'm. I'm on for the ride. Yeah. No, this is a very interesting question. So I was raised by a single mother my whole life. Occasionally, you know, she would date somebody, and eventually they would come around and stuff, but nothing really kind of, stuck or anything like that. So I never really had, like, a male model in my life.
00:20:29:11 - 00:20:44:22
Speaker 3
I mean, I kind of did sometimes, like, you know, there was my brother, my brother was always kind of coming in and out and stuff. Anyways, you know, just typical, like, you know, low income Kelso kids stuff. And so my.
00:20:44:24 - 00:21:10:06
Speaker 3
Template for masculinity was built a lot around, you know, what my mom wanted for men to be like, and then also what society expected men to be like. And I think that there was, like, anger really wasn't a part of it. Like, my mom with her own issues, just really wanted like a sensitive, gentle man who had an edge.
00:21:10:08 - 00:21:33:13
Speaker 3
And so and so in a lot of ways, you know, I was very sensitive as a kid. Super. You know, raw, very just, like, very in touch with my feelings. I loved everybody. I, I would like leave for school and like he always every single morning I would go in front. We had this big window in the front of our house, and I would go in front of it and like, you know, blow a kiss.
00:21:33:15 - 00:21:33:23
Speaker 1
Like.
00:21:33:23 - 00:21:52:08
Speaker 3
Wave and stuff. And my mom loved that kind of stuff. So I was like, very, very much, kind of pushed towards like, sensitivity is good. So I got a lot of the maternal, feminist, feminist, feminist qualities that people get.
00:21:53:07 - 00:22:09:14
Speaker 3
Typically just reserved for women in our society when they're coming up. Got a lot of that at home and stuff. And then I would get bullied a little bit. You know, I'd go and hang out. And I was kind of just a little bit weird because I would cry over tiny, tiny, tiny things. I was just very sensitive.
00:22:09:14 - 00:22:28:19
Speaker 3
I wanted everybody to be nice. So there was a lot of, like, feeling in it. And so that kind of got calloused over as I got older. And then masculinity kind of took the place of that. It became like, I have to be hard. This is how you this is how you do it. And again then we get that, emotions are not good.
00:22:28:20 - 00:22:31:09
Speaker 3
No one should listen to very much. Everybody should be logical.
00:22:31:11 - 00:22:32:05
Speaker 1
You know.
00:22:32:07 - 00:22:50:09
Speaker 3
And so I took on a very like it wasn't necessarily toxic masculinity, but it was definitely like an idea of masculinity that had to do with being here, being all brain, all like, you had to be sharp. I have to be, you know, high achieving. I have to just do.
00:22:50:11 - 00:22:52:00
Speaker 1
You know.
00:22:52:02 - 00:22:57:00
Speaker 3
But yeah, I think that's where masculinity kind of got intertwined with me for sure.
00:22:57:02 - 00:23:06:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then so and so now you find that it's something that you're actively working on as you're 33, 34.
00:23:06:02 - 00:23:07:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. 33.
00:23:07:19 - 00:23:11:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, how interesting is that? It's like something you have to like.
00:23:11:18 - 00:23:15:12
Speaker 1
All right, let's go back in the old full days and and see.
00:23:15:12 - 00:23:35:01
Speaker 2
Like, you know, not not necessarily that. Hey, this is something about me that I need to change, but, hey, let's look into, like, why I was the way that I was. How did I get there and what could I apply? You know, what new knowledge and practice at this age in my life? At 33, could I apply to kind of like smooth out those?
00:23:35:01 - 00:23:35:10
Speaker 1
You know.
00:23:35:15 - 00:23:52:18
Speaker 2
The way I see it, I always use the, the analogy of kind of like the body armor, you know, especially when we're kids and teens, especially if we're ultra sensitive. We've got to put on some layers to like, you know, protect ourselves. Like, you know, you're talking about, like, on the head, this intellectual on this, like, let's bring logic to this.
00:23:52:20 - 00:24:11:22
Speaker 2
And sometimes we put so much of our energy up here, it's like, wait, let's let's keep our heart protected. Let's put some armor over our heart so people can't like, well, I'm thinking up here, people can't, like, poke me in the heart with an arrow, you know? But. Yeah. So, so I wonder, like, how similar. Because I find a lot of what you were saying.
00:24:11:22 - 00:24:43:09
Speaker 2
I find a lot of similarities in me, you know? And so I wonder how many other dudes who are around our age are kind of re approaching? What? I don't know if it's the correct terminology to call it, like, you know, you know, masculine and feminine, energies. Those words are, you know, tense nowadays. But, yeah, I think I think we wouldn't be shocked to learn that there's plenty of other men who are kind of trying to revamp their, their understanding of their own emotions and, approaching those things, you know.
00:24:43:11 - 00:24:44:00
Speaker 3
I hope so.
00:24:44:04 - 00:24:45:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, there's.
00:24:45:15 - 00:25:17:15
Speaker 3
There's kind of a crisis with that, too. Men definitely, in my opinion, as a member of the group of men, need to revisit. Yeah, revisit it because it, it does things like, you know, at high levels in businesses, for example, at the C-suite level, you get women that come in, but they've adopted male characteristics. And so they're in those spaces, not bringing feminine energy in.
00:25:17:17 - 00:25:38:02
Speaker 3
Like I would like to see, I think that there's a lot of that that happens, too, because men are too unwilling to change. Right. Like where the power structure, where, you know, the ones that are running the, the game. And so it's like, yeah, you can come up here, but you got to play our game, you know, because we're not going to change.
00:25:38:04 - 00:25:39:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Don't don't.
00:25:39:15 - 00:25:40:13
Speaker 2
Come up here with a new.
00:25:40:13 - 00:25:43:05
Speaker 1
Game we don't know how to do. Yeah. It doesn't work for.
00:25:43:05 - 00:25:45:00
Speaker 2
Our our suppression of emotions.
00:25:45:00 - 00:25:46:01
Speaker 1
So no.
00:25:46:05 - 00:26:05:02
Speaker 3
Yeah it definitely makes the space a little a little strange. So it would be nice if it more men could come out indefinitely. Just like you were saying. It's not necessarily that you need to be. You know, it's not even necessarily that you need to change. You just need to be more mindful about why you're doing the things that you're doing.
00:26:05:04 - 00:26:07:17
Speaker 3
And that's where meditation really comes in handy.
00:26:07:19 - 00:26:09:23
Speaker 1
You know? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean.
00:26:09:23 - 00:26:15:00
Speaker 2
I love, Palmer. Sheldon, have you heard of any of her work? She's in meditation. Oh, my God, do that.
00:26:15:00 - 00:26:15:19
Speaker 3
Oh, it sounds familiar.
00:26:15:19 - 00:26:38:14
Speaker 2
Maybe I've seen your book. Please give a space co dro and Sheldon. Cut. She has so many good books. She's one of those teachers that. So in my, I got certified in mindfulness meditation teacher training, and she was like, our main curriculum, like our main one book that we read was, Yeah, I think it's called Start Where You Are by her.
00:26:38:16 - 00:26:39:00
Speaker 1
Beautiful.
00:26:39:00 - 00:26:39:22
Speaker 3
Name.
00:26:39:24 - 00:26:41:14
Speaker 1
And it's so good. She she has. So yeah.
00:26:41:14 - 00:26:45:03
Speaker 2
She has some, lectures on YouTube and some stuff on audible as well as her written books.
00:26:45:04 - 00:26:46:13
Speaker 1
But.
00:26:46:15 - 00:27:13:00
Speaker 2
And she, she talks about how, like, it's, it's a pretty profound concept, but change, wanting to change ourself is in itself an act of aggression towards who we are. And it's like this. Oh, shit. You know, like, in a, you know, you probably also heard some variation of like the one, the one who thinks they need to change is the one that needs to change, you know.
00:27:13:01 - 00:27:26:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's not that's not saying like, hey, you know, who you are with all your bullshit is okay. In some cases, it is actually who you are with. All your bullshit is okay. But, it's not about villainize being the parts of.
00:27:26:01 - 00:27:26:19
Speaker 1
You.
00:27:26:21 - 00:27:53:10
Speaker 2
That aren't good aren't like Zen and chill and accepted by society and accepted by others. It's allowing those things to be there and not feeling that you need to change them. By like, no, let's let's reject this part of who I am and what I'm actually experiencing. But more of like this, how you see it, you know, like you sit in meditation and you see the way that your mind is, you see the way that you are.
00:27:53:12 - 00:27:58:18
Speaker 2
And it's it's frustrating because you're like, I am super annoying sometimes that.
00:27:58:18 - 00:28:00:04
Speaker 1
Go right between that.
00:28:00:06 - 00:28:06:04
Speaker 2
But it's also just it's all an invitation to like, oh, I okay, I'm a little annoying sometimes.
00:28:06:09 - 00:28:07:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:28:07:16 - 00:28:26:23
Speaker 2
Oh, I'm a little, sometimes. Well, yeah. It's okay. It's it's who I am. You know, it's not just by recognizing it and bringing that intellectual side of our of our mind into, like, all right, let's shine the spotlight onto these patterns of who I am. And just because you shine a spotlight doesn't mean you get a freaking change it or get rid of it or something.
00:28:26:23 - 00:28:28:00
Speaker 1
You still.
00:28:28:02 - 00:28:35:11
Speaker 2
If you're going fishing with the with like, and you're in Louisiana and you're shining the light into the water like just because you see if this doesn't mean you're eating, you know, you see.
00:28:35:12 - 00:28:38:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. You still you still got a, I.
00:28:38:04 - 00:28:41:20
Speaker 2
Don't know where that Louisiana fish reference came from, but.
00:28:41:22 - 00:28:42:03
Speaker 1
It's a.
00:28:42:03 - 00:28:42:18
Speaker 3
Deep cut, I.
00:28:42:18 - 00:28:46:15
Speaker 1
Guess. Deep Louisiana cut. Yeah.
00:28:46:17 - 00:29:04:05
Speaker 2
But yeah. No, I just love that. I think, meditation is a constant, you know, you uncover layers about yourself, but that is kind of one of the bigger, continuous journeys that we that we embark on is like, oh, am I am I rejecting a part of me to try to change it so I can be better and accept myself more?
00:29:04:07 - 00:29:08:04
Speaker 1
Oops, oops. I don't need to do that.
00:29:08:04 - 00:29:21:07
Speaker 2
I can just, I can disallow it. Okay. So man I would love to if you have any more thoughts on that please, please interrupt my rambling, but I would love to just kind of learn more about your meditation practice and kind of how you first stumbled into it.
00:29:21:09 - 00:29:38:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, no. That's great. I think it's it's funny because what you were, what you were just saying, you know, about, like, really seeing, like, who we are, you know, witnessing our thoughts and kind of like, you know, and cultivating the witness. The person says, oh there's anger.
00:29:38:11 - 00:29:40:15
Speaker 1
Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:29:40:19 - 00:29:48:17
Speaker 3
There it is again. Oh there's my jealousy. You know something that's there. It's truly a beautiful skill I think.
00:29:49:16 - 00:30:04:00
Speaker 3
For people to, to gather and, and strengthen for me what. I had tried meditating many times over the years, just like I've tried journaling many.
00:30:04:00 - 00:30:06:01
Speaker 1
Times of the year.
00:30:06:03 - 00:30:22:23
Speaker 3
And I just I just couldn't get into it. And, I remember one time I was just like, okay, I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to do it. I think I heard Ram Dass talking about, you know, just some idea of what meditation is supposed to do. And it just kind of clicked with me.
00:30:22:23 - 00:30:39:03
Speaker 3
I was like, oh, okay. Like, that's that makes sense. I'm not supposed to be doing anything except just stay here, you know? Or like, focus on the muscle. Like whatever you want to do, just do that. It was let it let it happen every time I like, you know, go. I have just, What does it feel like to do that?
00:30:39:03 - 00:31:16:14
Speaker 3
Okay, okay. Now don't worry about feeling. Let's just, like, breathe. You have one thing to do. And, doing that, I did it, like, the first time I was like, I'm committed. I was very serious about it. I'm like, I'm committed. I'm going to. Something's going to happen. And, sure enough, after like 40 minutes of just like, forcing myself to just like and just like letting it happen, it was like my thoughts kind of ticker taped out and all of a sudden I was like, there was like that, you know, that beautiful space in between a thought where it's like, you're free from this.
00:31:16:16 - 00:31:26:15
Speaker 3
And then the next thought comes in and it and then like, you know, it's it's fun now a year and a half later to, like, have those moments because I can be like, and here's the next thought.
00:31:28:12 - 00:31:29:11
Speaker 3
Peace.
00:31:29:13 - 00:31:31:05
Speaker 1
Next stop.
00:31:31:07 - 00:31:42:03
Speaker 3
And like, not that long ago. Mostly I just do Metta meditations. So I love to just like, meditate for a little bit. And then may all beings be happy. May all beings be free, you know.
00:31:42:05 - 00:31:42:19
Speaker 1
Can you, can you.
00:31:42:19 - 00:31:51:07
Speaker 2
Expand on what I assume people listening? I probably have heard me ramble on about metta meditation. Will you give me a brief explanation of what Metta meditation is?
00:31:51:09 - 00:32:13:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, the way that I use it is, mostly as a way to deal with, the aggression that I have just in general, because I feel like it currently, as I feel it closes me off. So for me, Madame, meditation is a way to open myself back up to feel more compassionate, to truly like, be love and compassion.
00:32:14:00 - 00:32:47:15
Speaker 3
And so, as metta meditation is the loving compassion meditation, I love to use it. So I do the regular meditation and get myself kind of, you know, not regular, regular meditation, but just chilling. And then, once I kind of get to a space where it's like, okay, I'm feeling really, like in myself. Then I say the mantras that the three different versions of the mantras, which are, May all beings, be safe, may all beings be healthy, may all beings live with ease.
00:32:47:17 - 00:32:48:03
Speaker 1
And.
00:32:48:06 - 00:33:11:06
Speaker 3
May all beings be free. And then I do. May I be this way, you know. And may you be this way. And usually when I'm at the you part, I'm thinking of someone. Something, that has brought me, you know, some kind of anguish in some way. So going through a breakup, oftentimes when I do meditation, I'm thinking of my.
00:33:11:06 - 00:33:12:12
Speaker 1
Ex.
00:33:12:14 - 00:33:22:09
Speaker 3
And my ex is on my puja table. I use I every every morning when I wake up, I'm like, I have a picture of my ji and some other people and I'm like, good morning Maharaj ji. Morning, grandpa.
00:33:22:11 - 00:33:26:22
Speaker 1
Morning. And it and move on. Yeah.
00:33:26:24 - 00:33:34:22
Speaker 3
And just kind of try and like soften that that feeling because yeah it's not great. So anyway, so that's the way that I use that in meditation.
00:33:36:01 - 00:33:54:21
Speaker 2
I love that. Yeah. I I think meditation is, is super powerful because it's really a lot of meditation is another, we're really trying to break the, the patterns of our conditioning. You know, we're trying to break our, you know, get a little sliver like you said, that space in between, you know, our stimulus in response.
00:33:54:21 - 00:34:02:00
Speaker 2
So a lot of times we live our whole life just in response. And we, like, don't even realize that there's been stimulus popping us off this whole time.
00:34:02:02 - 00:34:04:08
Speaker 1
You know? But, so.
00:34:04:12 - 00:34:18:05
Speaker 2
So with metta meditation. So when you, when you first started doing it, I found and I've heard other meditation teachers talk about this, I found that it took me a long time to get to where I could wish my self-love like that was genuinely difficult. I, which.
00:34:18:05 - 00:34:19:00
Speaker 1
Is that that.
00:34:19:00 - 00:34:22:00
Speaker 2
Opened up a whole door of like, I should look into that.
00:34:22:00 - 00:34:24:01
Speaker 1
Why is it like.
00:34:24:03 - 00:34:42:17
Speaker 2
Why is it so difficult to like I could I could genuinely like tears streaming down my cheeks. Think about my neighbor, who I've never really met. They just pull into the driveway when I see him often about like, man, I really wish them well. Like, I hope you have a great birthday and I hope that their family relationships are great and I hope, oh man, 4th of July.
00:34:42:23 - 00:35:00:00
Speaker 2
I hope they had the best 4th of July. And you could think of these things. And it's like really in your body you're like releasing all these chemicals of just I'm really genuinely sending this person gratitude. Like, I really wish them the best. Yeah. And then.
00:35:00:02 - 00:35:00:13
Speaker 1
But oh.
00:35:00:13 - 00:35:07:00
Speaker 2
Right. Think about me, because like, you know, like, well, like, I know all my stuff, you know.
00:35:07:02 - 00:35:08:02
Speaker 1
Like, yeah.
00:35:08:03 - 00:35:27:17
Speaker 2
I know, like, well, I got, I got man bad icky thoughts sometimes and I don't know, do I deserve to meditate? You know, like what? What a silly thing to, like, get caught up on, on sending ourself, you know, the same love that that we can kind of seamlessly send, send to others but that. So so that's a whole journey.
00:35:27:17 - 00:35:32:18
Speaker 2
So I wonder for you, Blake, was it, did you have anything similar, like where it's difficult to send yourself love.
00:35:32:20 - 00:35:35:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, I still I forced myself through it.
00:35:35:03 - 00:35:35:19
Speaker 1
That's hard.
00:35:35:19 - 00:35:54:08
Speaker 3
So I'm slowly, slowly pulling that one off. I'm not even at the point of like I say it, and I can tell it's just kind of like there's still a lot of that coating on me that washes it off immediately. It's like a beating. I'm like like a rain protector kind of thing, you know? It's like the water just streams off.
00:35:54:08 - 00:35:57:22
Speaker 3
It's like, yeah, it's kind of like that. It's like, I gotta wash it some more.
00:35:58:02 - 00:35:59:02
Speaker 1
I it's really, it's great.
00:35:59:02 - 00:36:02:24
Speaker 2
Great technology this this emotional rain ex that we. Amen. Yeah.
00:36:03:00 - 00:36:03:17
Speaker 1
Exactly.
00:36:03:22 - 00:36:27:00
Speaker 3
Well you know and the interesting thing is I have a little picture of me on my puja table as a kid, and I use that a lot to like, build that. So like when I get up in the morning and when I go to bed and say good night to everybody chillin on my puja table, I'm like, it's when I, growing up, my nickname, for my family that was affectionate was Blakey boy.
00:36:27:02 - 00:37:02:03
Speaker 3
And so whenever I want to get in touch with that child part of myself, I mean, so every morning it's good. Good morning, Blakey boy. You know? Good night, Blakey boy. So usually when I say like I. When I say that kind of stuff, I'm, I'm thinking of Blakey boy. And I hope that in closing the gap between me and Blakey boy, and recognizing that that's a part of my deeper being is just these experiences, the lore unfolding of Blake, that, that that can kind of bring the.
00:37:02:03 - 00:37:05:19
Speaker 3
Now. Blake. Yeah. That love.
00:37:05:21 - 00:37:09:24
Speaker 2
If you ever had a book, you have to call it closing the gap between me and Blakey. Boy, that's.
00:37:10:05 - 00:37:12:01
Speaker 1
Yes. Yes.
00:37:12:03 - 00:37:16:14
Speaker 3
So it's like the sequel to some crazy.
00:37:16:16 - 00:37:19:10
Speaker 1
Sad movie. Yeah.
00:37:19:12 - 00:37:32:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, right. Some, like doom and gloom first, right? Your first book needs to be like, look, I is going to murder everyone. And it's just the truth in, like, close to the last page and there's no wishful thinking. And then your next book is just, like, how to love your inner.
00:37:32:13 - 00:37:37:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Just because that's kind of that's a.
00:37:37:04 - 00:37:45:00
Speaker 3
Pretty apt description of my life. I think there's a lot of that, like doom and gloom and now and just like a completely different area. Blakey boy.
00:37:45:06 - 00:37:47:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:47:07 - 00:38:07:05
Speaker 2
See, I'm in similar boats, bro. I, I notice, like, I spent so much time, you know, if you get into meditation and kind of questioning the self, you know, when I first stumbled into it, for me, it was, you know, by necessity, I was very like, I was dealing with just insane anxiety, depression, just partying too much.
00:38:07:07 - 00:38:24:01
Speaker 2
Just like I was just. I got to the point, you know, doctors. I went to the doctor and got this, prescribed antidepressants and all these things, and they just everything kept getting worse. And worse. And I had this kind of breaking point of like, dude, what the fuck? Like, nobody is able to help me. I got to figure out what is going on here.
00:38:24:01 - 00:38:46:22
Speaker 2
So I just went extreme of like, not only what is making me so upset, what is causing my depression, why am I suffering, but also just like kept on wanting to like, what is I even like? What is the self that is depressed like? And that opens a whole door of, you know, I had like, you know, some level of psychosis really by unwinding some of that stuff.
00:38:46:22 - 00:39:13:12
Speaker 2
But it was out of necessity. It was out of, like, you know, we suffer, we suffer so much. And I think a lot of our suffering is like, we never really fully follow the thought, like we follow the thought enough to get stressed out about it. But like, if we keep following it and, like, really accepting it, like, we can get it sounds nihilistic.
00:39:13:12 - 00:39:30:18
Speaker 2
It sounds negative, as we would say. But I kept some thought like, what is the self? And suddenly you realize, like after some meditation teachers and books, you're like, oh fuck, the self doesn't exist. Like who I thought I was, was suffering. And you know, for anybody listening, you know, it sounds maybe like a little bit of a freaky thought of like, what is the self?
00:39:30:18 - 00:39:57:07
Speaker 2
And who am I and all that stuff. But it's actually a lot of freedom in it, you know, to recognize that we are kind of, you know, a maelstrom of, of, of patterns and, experiences and happenstance of we're kind of continuously reacting to things that happened to us when we were younger. And so, you know, when.
00:39:57:09 - 00:40:02:23
Speaker 2
When we kind of, like, are forced to sit down and.
00:40:03:00 - 00:40:29:24
Speaker 2
And face and accept like our death. Like there's this saying in the like, illness and mysteries, of like, if you die before you die, when you die, you will not die, you know, and it's kind of flirting with the like, if you can become aware of what the ego is in, not ego in the word of like the, the cheapening of like, that guy's cocky and he's at the club and he's got, you know, Fukushima necklaces or whatever.
00:40:31:16 - 00:40:52:14
Speaker 2
You get a stupid sense, but like, really of this, like, right in between all this love and this meta and like, like, oh, my neighbor, like, they're so, so precious. And they had a childhood. But, like, in the same sentence, I can go like, yeah, death is absolute. Like, we're going to die, you know, I mean, it sounds morbid, right?
00:40:52:14 - 00:41:09:01
Speaker 2
But it's actually kind of two sides of the same coin. You can't decouple them. There is some truth and beauty in kind of in some ways accepting that how minuscule and soft and quick this whole experience is like like.
00:41:09:03 - 00:41:31:14
Speaker 2
What a mistake to not be able to find grace for your parents for, like giving you the tool on the only tools they had. You know, in this, this very minuscule, short existence that we have, we have the gift of like, somebody loving us, of somebody taking care about carrying us to the best of our, their ability.
00:41:31:16 - 00:41:53:23
Speaker 2
And I think it just goes hand in hand. I'm trying to land on a question here for you, Blake. I guess, just like maybe, maybe that that line between acceptance of kind of our death and our mortality and, like, how does what does that have to do with meta loving kindness meditation. Like, do you find any correlations in on your journey between those, you know.
00:41:54:04 - 00:42:08:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's actually that's actually pretty poignant. That's my in with myself actually like to to loving myself. It's like paying attention. You know, I thought for many years about death.
00:42:08:08 - 00:42:09:13
Speaker 1
And.
00:42:09:15 - 00:42:18:07
Speaker 3
What that whole trip is about and a lot of years being scared and taking very existential.
00:42:19:22 - 00:42:24:24
Speaker 3
Existential views on that. And this idea of like, well, this is it. This is it.
00:42:25:04 - 00:42:26:17
Speaker 1
You know, like.
00:42:26:19 - 00:42:45:09
Speaker 3
The logical side of me was always just there thinking like, well, it's just a chemical processes and electrical signals and things are connected in a certain way. And if they're not connected that way, then, you know, Ship of Theseus arguments of like, you know, if I relate, like, how am I still the same person I was when I was a kid?
00:42:45:11 - 00:43:09:02
Speaker 3
What is the common thread? That's crazy, you know, and so kind of following all that, the thought that I have of dying and being like, I'm going to miss this. I'm going to miss Blake. I'm going to miss hanging out. I'm going to miss all the people that I have in my life. All these people, all the beings that I've interacted with, animals, stuff like that.
00:43:09:02 - 00:43:11:23
Speaker 3
When I walk the other day and I saw a cat and it's like.
00:43:12:00 - 00:43:12:21
Speaker 1
Oh, we're.
00:43:12:21 - 00:43:13:24
Speaker 3
Alive at the same time.
00:43:13:24 - 00:43:15:19
Speaker 1
Like how, you know.
00:43:15:21 - 00:43:21:01
Speaker 3
We're connected. Like, oh, look at you're looking at me. I'm looking at you, man. Like.
00:43:21:03 - 00:43:22:03
Speaker 1
This is it.
00:43:22:05 - 00:43:24:00
Speaker 2
How did you get into that one?
00:43:24:02 - 00:43:26:07
Speaker 1
Exactly, exactly.
00:43:26:07 - 00:43:55:05
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so recognizing that I feel that way, is one of the most powerful things that have brought me to a place of being able to even say, like, oh, I must love myself. Because if I can sit here and be like, oh, this is going to kind of suck to not do this. Like when you get past all the, like, scare all this stuff, when you can separate enough from yourself to be like, oh yeah, but like when I die, even if I can't, like, okay, I'm not going to know that I'm it's going to be what it was like before I was born.
00:43:55:05 - 00:44:03:13
Speaker 3
But I'm not going to. That sucks. Like right now I'm grieving that, you know, I'm like, that sucks. I want to be around to do Blake's stuff, you.
00:44:03:13 - 00:44:04:18
Speaker 1
Know, like.
00:44:04:20 - 00:44:20:16
Speaker 3
That is enough for me to like. Yeah, tell it to just continue to push it, to continue to, like, okay, there's a part of me in that somewhere in there. I do love myself. Somewhere in there. I do see that. I do really like, grab on to that. So there's something in there.
00:44:20:18 - 00:44:21:13
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:44:21:15 - 00:44:39:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, there definitely is. There's some, some through line. I mean for me it was just really it was really helpful like is because it turned a continuous scary thought. You know, someone who's dealing with like suicidal ideation and depression and that sort of thing. You have this kind of like still. Well, I guess I'll just kill myself and then it'll all be over or.
00:44:39:03 - 00:44:54:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, you know, I think as an artist, I also I've talked about it in the podcast before, but I kind of had some weird fantasies around the 27 club too, like, oh, I'll be important. Once they once they, they'll check out my art and see it's geniality once I'm dead, you know?
00:44:54:03 - 00:44:55:02
Speaker 1
And it's just.
00:44:55:04 - 00:45:13:14
Speaker 2
Like, it sounds so silly and tongue in cheek and all these things, but like, that's really where my mind was back then. Yeah. Sounds. It sounds like this childish, like, call out for attention. Really in a lot of ways. I think, you know, really it was in so many ways, like, make sure you recognize how important I am.
00:45:13:14 - 00:45:32:06
Speaker 2
And it's like, well, yeah, that's that's for you too. And like, you're already important is already being recognized. It's kind of like once you can fall back outside of your stories and have a relationship with the creator universe, that's like moving through you. It's like you that importance is already there and nobody has to tell you it. And you don't have to reaffirm yourself like it's fine.
00:45:32:06 - 00:45:38:11
Speaker 2
Like exactly who you are is only who you are, and there's nobody else like you. And that is fucking holy crap.
00:45:38:11 - 00:45:45:14
Speaker 1
Like like you like zoom out. What a trip. Yeah, what a trip. And zoom out and zoom way out.
00:45:45:14 - 00:46:07:23
Speaker 2
Dude, it is just like, what? How precious is this whole thing? And what a what a mistake to make ourselves so small, as to like, you know, overlook our own importance, you know, like, we don't need the. We don't need the ego importance of, like, I'm. I'm cool. And like, you see my VIP wristband, I'm. I'm with the DJ.
00:46:07:23 - 00:46:16:22
Speaker 2
Like, it's not that important, but it's like like, you know, my my sisters only have one brother.
00:46:16:24 - 00:46:18:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:46:18:04 - 00:46:33:12
Speaker 2
Like that important like I. Yeah. Like, I don't get to choose other sisters, you know. And they're frustrating and they piss me off and it's very difficult to have a relationship with them. But I love them, you know, and they're the only sisters I have. And I'm the only brother I have in that's important. Like, you know, that's that's the gift.
00:46:33:12 - 00:46:43:00
Speaker 2
I don't get to change it. I don't get it. Look at other people with cooler sisters than me and just like I wish I had cooler sisters. And then I don't get it. Like, wish they had it like I'm the brother they have.
00:46:43:02 - 00:46:43:20
Speaker 1
You know? Yeah.
00:46:43:22 - 00:47:04:23
Speaker 2
And there's, meditation is constantly facing the truth, right. You know. Yeah. It's like, how do we how do we continually not try to change our stories but recognize that we're telling a story? And yeah, allow the preciousness that's already there to, to really be there or something like that.
00:47:05:00 - 00:47:43:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, I mentioned this just briefly a little bit ago, but that lawfulness of people, that that perspective shift for me has changed so much in the way that like the compassion that I can hold for people doing things that I don't like that are doing, their things like just looking at it as like, you know, I as a mathematician, when I do my algebra junk that I do and like one of the reasons that I started loving mathematics is I was on the train and I was like, doing some math homework.
00:47:43:10 - 00:48:01:18
Speaker 3
And, I got, like to the end of a proof that I was writing. And, you know, I got to the end and I was like. And then I looked at it and I laughed, and I was like, oh, I didn't see how I was going to get from here to here. But I got there, you know, and like, there's something about that.
00:48:01:20 - 00:48:07:23
Speaker 3
Like, I don't get mad about that. It's not like when I write a proof and then sometimes at the end I'm like, really?
00:48:08:00 - 00:48:08:13
Speaker 1
You know.
00:48:08:13 - 00:48:10:03
Speaker 3
Or like halfway through it, I'm like.
00:48:10:05 - 00:48:10:13
Speaker 1
This is.
00:48:10:13 - 00:48:12:00
Speaker 3
Stupid. Why are they like this?
00:48:12:00 - 00:48:13:13
Speaker 2
Why is reality like this? This?
00:48:13:18 - 00:48:14:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. What?
00:48:14:16 - 00:48:18:18
Speaker 3
Why is this? You know, why. Why is this orbit this way? Why is the.
00:48:18:24 - 00:48:19:23
Speaker 1
Ruler.
00:48:20:00 - 00:48:23:07
Speaker 3
Yeah. Why is the Euler number of this thing, you know, whatever. Yeah.
00:48:23:10 - 00:48:25:21
Speaker 2
What is makes me angry.
00:48:25:23 - 00:48:39:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. And so having that perspective of like, well, people can work that way too. Like I can, I can just think about it as, like the apple falling from the tree. No one's going to be like.
00:48:39:06 - 00:48:48:04
Speaker 1
Why do I do that? In the house that I can follow. Yes. And and also fuck you, Apple man. I wanted.
00:48:48:04 - 00:48:49:00
Speaker 3
You on that tree for a.
00:48:49:00 - 00:48:49:10
Speaker 1
Little bit.
00:48:49:10 - 00:49:12:12
Speaker 3
Longer. Like. No, like. And Ronda says that thing often about like, you know, being being angry often is a is a conduit of like this. If I was God, this isn't how the world would be. And I love that, because like, every time I get angry, then I think, like, am I angry? Like not because if I was in charge this would be different.
00:49:12:12 - 00:49:31:24
Speaker 3
Or is this like something else, you know? And often it's like, I'm angry because if I was in charge, no one would drive in traffic like this. You know, if I was in charge, there would be no traffic to it. So it takes a different perspective of it. And bringing it back to meditation is a great place to explore that law unfolding in your head.
00:49:32:01 - 00:49:37:24
Speaker 2
Bro. I think I'm going to use it. I haven't heard it worded in such a way. If I was angry.
00:49:38:01 - 00:49:38:14
Speaker 1
Or if.
00:49:38:14 - 00:49:44:02
Speaker 2
I was in charge, I'd be angry about this thing. Like if I were in charge, I'd wish the earth.
00:49:44:04 - 00:49:45:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, when you get.
00:49:45:15 - 00:49:57:14
Speaker 3
Angry, it's like, yeah, I'm mad because, like, I'm, you know, splitting up with somebody. It's like, oh, I'm mad because if I was in charge, we would be together if I could control everything about this, this, this is how it would work.
00:49:57:16 - 00:50:02:11
Speaker 1
But it's not. And so what are you going to do? Yeah, it's an option. What are you going to do? You know.
00:50:02:11 - 00:50:06:21
Speaker 3
And so then think about the perfection of oh we're breaking up.
00:50:06:23 - 00:50:08:01
Speaker 1
So yeah.
00:50:08:07 - 00:50:09:23
Speaker 3
Yeah I don't know what we're doing.
00:50:09:23 - 00:50:12:07
Speaker 1
Why are we. Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:12:09 - 00:50:27:19
Speaker 2
We're really just along for the ride. You know, and I think it is this constant balance. And again, it's not a, it is this really precise, constant practice of always opening up to because in that moment when someone's breaking up with you, it's hard to go.
00:50:27:21 - 00:50:29:08
Speaker 1
So. Yeah.
00:50:29:08 - 00:50:31:12
Speaker 2
So you don't love me anymore?
00:50:31:14 - 00:50:31:19
Speaker 1
You.
00:50:31:19 - 00:50:53:00
Speaker 2
Know, and like. Because really, what's happening is, is you're devastated and you now have the moment and you're upset and all these things, but it's, you know, I'll tell you, when I, I was towards the end of my getting my meditation teacher certification and I got, I got dumped and I was dating this girl and it was like, we are on the go for like four months.
00:50:53:00 - 00:50:59:05
Speaker 2
But it was just this freaking whirlwind of, like, like, I mean, it sounds really silly now, but we're, you.
00:50:59:09 - 00:51:00:20
Speaker 1
Know, that's lovely.
00:51:00:22 - 00:51:11:09
Speaker 2
It was like, man on on our first date, we're both just like, it's just love at first sight. Like we're. But just so intense. Man, I was just so like. Like the poet in me was like,
00:51:11:11 - 00:51:13:12
Speaker 1
You had a muse, bro. I was just.
00:51:13:12 - 00:51:20:02
Speaker 2
Level 100 at all. Like I'd wake up just so excited. A Texas individual like. And he's so deep in it, you know.
00:51:21:14 - 00:51:38:06
Speaker 2
But, like, you know, so. And then we split up, and I was like, you know, it was like, on a Thursday. And the next day I had to wake up and like, do my, like, it's like ten hour meditation teacher certification. And I'm just ugly crying here in my apartment. Like, how do I.
00:51:38:08 - 00:51:40:07
Speaker 1
Like, how do I what would I, you know, what what.
00:51:40:07 - 00:51:42:07
Speaker 2
Advice do I give myself. Like it.
00:51:42:09 - 00:51:44:00
Speaker 1
It's just so.
00:51:44:00 - 00:52:03:07
Speaker 2
Frustrating. Right. And it's it's so funny because, like, it pissed me off and I had to feel being pissed off, but like, even in the middle of me, so sad is so upset mourning the loss of all these futures we had just I brought her back to to Kelso, our hometown, and she had met my family and friends and I thought it all went so great.
00:52:03:09 - 00:52:08:16
Speaker 2
And I have all these crazy fantasies of like, what the future looks like in the next few years with this individual.
00:52:08:18 - 00:52:09:04
Speaker 1
And I had to.
00:52:09:04 - 00:52:15:14
Speaker 2
Just like I'm mourning all that and I'm still like, all right, I got to be a meditation teacher tomorrow.
00:52:15:16 - 00:52:18:07
Speaker 1
Dude. And you know.
00:52:18:07 - 00:52:39:20
Speaker 2
And so what I really had to do was like, I had to show up to a meditation teacher class with puffy eyes, and. Yeah, and that was the truth of it. You know, it's like, as much as it hurt so bad. And it was very real and a mourning all these things, it was also like, what up? This is frustrating to admit, but what a gift that I just kind of fell in love with.
00:52:39:20 - 00:52:40:08
Speaker 2
So for four.
00:52:40:08 - 00:52:49:00
Speaker 1
Months, like, dude. Oh shit. Like, what a gift. Damn it. This gift sucks, you know? But like, oh, what a gift, you know?
00:52:49:02 - 00:53:08:19
Speaker 2
And it's, it's it's that constant push and pull, you know, and and now and now what do I give? Like, as I get this, you know, whatever I end up doing with this meditation teacher, this, this cool piece of paper that I get to connect and hopefully teach people new, new time or new beginners how, how to how to deal with their version of that.
00:53:08:21 - 00:53:12:04
Speaker 2
I get this lifelong story of like, hey, you know, I'm not trying to come.
00:53:12:04 - 00:53:14:17
Speaker 1
Across as some dude who is like in.
00:53:14:17 - 00:53:32:04
Speaker 2
The middle of my my teacher certification, the stuff I'm talking about, like how I'm, like, teaching you right now. I was bawling my eyes out during it. So like, yeah, not some zen peaceful perfect. I'm just a a sticky, gross, stinky human just like you. Okay. And here it is. You know, here's my experience. What? What's yours are like, you know.
00:53:32:04 - 00:53:52:10
Speaker 2
So, Yeah, meditation is this constant, like, allowing those gushy, wonderful, beautiful, you know, liquidy, yucky feelings to happen, but also like the, the sharp edges of metal that life is, you know, and like, sometimes you sometimes, you know, arm gets cut on that sharp metal and it hurts.
00:53:52:10 - 00:53:54:24
Speaker 1
You know, and that's absolutely it's still.
00:53:54:24 - 00:53:56:08
Speaker 2
Life too, you know.
00:53:56:10 - 00:54:05:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you need somebody in your corner saying the moments I feel most connected with you are when you cut yourself on those sharp corners.
00:54:05:13 - 00:54:07:14
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, and you're like, you're.
00:54:07:14 - 00:54:10:20
Speaker 2
Okay when you're bleeding. Yeah. Like you're crying right now.
00:54:10:20 - 00:54:13:11
Speaker 1
That's okay. You're not wrong. Yeah.
00:54:13:13 - 00:54:18:22
Speaker 3
It's it's it's a beautiful thing for sure. Meditation definitely helps cultivate that in yourself.
00:54:18:24 - 00:54:22:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:22:02 - 00:54:38:07
Speaker 2
Okay. So how did you. I think I barreled through the, through the question that I asked her, how did you very first get into meditation, like, so you said like something with us first clicked with you. But like, even with listening to us, the first place to me is like, that's that's a, step in, in towards meditation.
00:54:38:07 - 00:54:45:03
Speaker 2
So, like, I mean, it maybe even. Let's take a step back farther. How did you kind of first get into spirituality, like, was that a profound move for you? Shift for.
00:54:45:03 - 00:54:45:19
Speaker 1
You?
00:54:45:21 - 00:54:46:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think so.
00:54:48:16 - 00:55:22:22
Speaker 3
I don't even know, man. It's, I was very averse to it. For a long time. I've been very like, frankly, critical of astrology and anything woowoo. I was like, no, don't believe it. Just in exploring myself. And, you know, there's been a few times in my life where I've witnessed my authentic self showing up to things, and that it's like.
00:55:22:24 - 00:55:34:17
Speaker 3
Too heavy, like it's it's scary for me. I was it's a lot less now, but it was, you know, very scary. It's like, oh, okay. All right. I better chill out I better not I Blakey boys not allowed here now.
00:55:34:17 - 00:55:35:20
Speaker 1
Like.
00:55:35:22 - 00:55:44:18
Speaker 3
You know, or like, I don't I don't know if this is true. So I'm just, you know, even even if I feel it like, you know. And I.
00:55:44:20 - 00:55:45:16
Speaker 1
Was.
00:55:45:18 - 00:56:12:00
Speaker 3
Very staunchly like, this doesn't make sense. So it can't be true. It has to make sense. And so I just continually, like, push back against everything. I was always trying to look at, but like, why are things not the way that they are? And going through mathematics, you learn different ways to prove things and you learn that like, it's a lot harder to prove that something is a certain way than it is to prove that something is not any other way.
00:56:12:05 - 00:56:39:08
Speaker 3
And you get like stuck in these kind of like traps of how am I going to perceive the world. And in a lot of ways, doing all of that mathematics, it changed so much about how I perceived truth and value and, what anything meant anywhere, you know, for anything. And so I started, I actually gave the Beatles listen, I was like, all right, maybe, you know, everybody likes the Beatles.
00:56:39:08 - 00:56:45:18
Speaker 3
Maybe I should listen to something more than just some of the White Album. So I like, listen to the White Album. And now I have.
00:56:46:17 - 00:57:09:16
Speaker 3
The Magical Mystery Tour back there on my wall. It's been a long journey, but, I think really actually just getting into the Beatles, I was like, well, I mean, they kind of got into psychedelics. They did. Paul McCartney probably, meditates, you know, my dad meditated. Maybe I should just, like, try it. And I was like, I have no idea what to do with that.
00:57:09:16 - 00:57:19:12
Speaker 3
I think I looked up some YouTube videos or like, how do you meditate? Which is where I learned, like, oh, you got to be, you know, focus like live here.
00:57:19:14 - 00:57:21:02
Speaker 1
For a minute. You know.
00:57:21:04 - 00:57:34:13
Speaker 3
Focus there, all that stuff. So I think that's where like I initially initially got into it, it's I just had these transformative experiences that kept slowly opening me up to things that weren't necessarily black and white.
00:57:35:17 - 00:57:39:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. Man, I really want to learn more about.
00:57:39:20 - 00:57:40:21
Speaker 1
Your.
00:57:40:21 - 00:58:07:24
Speaker 2
View on mathematics. I find when we were kids, I always found, numbers, like they did it for me. I did it somehow, some way. This. I'm going to have to place a fault on one of my teachers. But somehow nobody. I didn't hear the magic of math. Like, like, now that I'm older and I like, I listen to mathematicians talk like I, you know, Eric Weinstein.
00:58:08:01 - 00:58:27:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. I, I really, really like, listening to him talk about like physics and stuff, but like hearing people like that who are lit up by math, talk about it in talk. You know, you learn about like the Fibonacci sequence and you learn about like just these super interesting, like, mind blowing facts about the earth that, like, only math can bring us to.
00:58:27:22 - 00:58:34:04
Speaker 2
And, but I didn't have that until till I was older, so, I think.
00:58:34:06 - 00:58:35:17
Speaker 1
Tell me.
00:58:35:19 - 00:58:44:03
Speaker 2
And you can take this question wherever, in, in molded into how it works for your explanation. How is math beautiful?
00:58:44:05 - 00:58:48:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:58:48:18 - 00:59:19:13
Speaker 3
The the cliche answer is that it's a language. Right. And and that it describes, so much about what's going on around us. Right. So it's like, oh, it's beautiful because math is a language, and we can use it to describe ideas more. That's like what most people say or like, they, they talk a lot about, like, the application like, oh, math is beautiful because it's deeply integrated into everything we do.
00:59:19:15 - 00:59:57:16
Speaker 3
And those are all true. But for me, I think math is beautiful because it is. And not even that it is beautiful because math. Math to me is, method of beauty. Like it's not beautiful itself, but there's so much beauty and elegance inside of mathematics that goes so far beyond just equations that go so far. Like I told you about the the comedy that I saw in it, you know, and, there's like, it's it's like a form of poetry in a lot of ways.
00:59:57:20 - 01:00:03:03
Speaker 3
Not necessarily in terms of like, it being a language as much as poetry is a language. Right.
01:00:04:11 - 01:00:26:13
Speaker 3
I feel like math often gets overlooked because it feels very strenuous. It feels very like arduous, maybe where it's like, oh, well, I have to do so much. And it's like, what does the, you know, letters have to do with anything? But once you get to it, there's like a certain point where, you know, you may not even have an equal sign.
01:00:26:14 - 01:00:36:19
Speaker 3
You're just kind of like goofing around with stuff. Like in my later math classes, I would often joke that, like, I'm going into like, we.
01:00:36:21 - 01:00:37:11
Speaker 1
I, I.
01:00:37:11 - 01:01:09:20
Speaker 3
Took this advanced algebra class. This was on a topic called group theory, which is just it's a type of number theory. You have groups, rings and fields. And, this was a group theory. And we the one of my classes, we actually like, did crafts, like we took like, because you think about how many different ways you can like flip a triangle and like, if you, if you flip it, if you turn it, it's completely different than if you like, rotate it.
01:01:09:24 - 01:01:30:13
Speaker 3
Right. Like those are flipping. And rotating are two different things. And so we had to like build these triangles that had like numbers on them. And then we found a way to describe that mathematically, given the numbers that are on like the corners of like, how are we going to rotate this. And that was that's like the beauty to me.
01:01:30:16 - 01:01:53:20
Speaker 3
It's like, yeah, there's like a physical start of something. But math shows you that just because something has a physical corollary, just because we can connect it to something physical, this is a completely like out in the like. You don't it doesn't have to be that way. Like it doesn't have to be connected to anything physical for it to be a thing that like, fits in our rulebook.
01:01:53:22 - 01:02:06:17
Speaker 3
So it's a way to explore things that are metaphysical in a way that allows people to share those ideas, much in the same way that you and I might talk about meditation, which is something you can't measure.
01:02:06:19 - 01:02:08:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:08:11 - 01:02:11:14
Speaker 2
I love thinking about it as a language. I you know.
01:02:11:16 - 01:02:12:13
Speaker 1
Sure, sure.
01:02:12:13 - 01:02:33:19
Speaker 2
It's a bit cliche, but I do think that that is actually a very profound way to approach math is, as a language. Yeah. I do you think math is something that, you know, a lot of my questions are kind of like, if you're an alien watching what the humans, what those weird apes are doing.
01:02:33:21 - 01:02:34:05
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:02:34:09 - 01:02:38:13
Speaker 2
Do you think humans discovered math or invented math or needed.
01:02:38:15 - 01:02:43:00
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. This question. Yeah, I love I love when this question comes up.
01:02:43:02 - 01:02:47:09
Speaker 1
It's.
01:02:47:11 - 01:02:52:10
Speaker 3
Discovered or invented?
01:02:52:12 - 01:03:19:02
Speaker 3
I think it's a method of discovery. Yeah, but I think we also I think we're inventing tools to discover mathematics. So we're like it's it's like a like, it's like snake, snake eating its tail. It's like I think, yeah, we're discovering a lot, but every discovery just builds new tools to be able to discover more. So it's kind of weird.
01:03:19:08 - 01:03:49:01
Speaker 3
You think about like, oh, some of this stuff people couldn't even have thought of, you know, a thousand years ago. And some of that is true because some of it doesn't have any kind of connection to anything physical. You know, like there's a famous, example or there's a famous mathematician called Galois, and, he was this French mathematician who was like all over the French Revolution and like, super like politically charged and motivated.
01:03:49:01 - 01:03:55:06
Speaker 3
And he's like 20 years old, and he's like, writing mathematics that people are like.
01:03:55:08 - 01:03:55:19
Speaker 1
What the.
01:03:55:20 - 01:04:13:14
Speaker 3
Where did you even get this? You know, it's like he's a conduit of God or something, like he's writing. And so he's like writing this stuff down. He's in jail because of all of his political junk that he's doing, and he has a duel that he's going to go do. And so he, like, writes down this.
01:04:13:16 - 01:04:14:11
Speaker 1
Whole.
01:04:14:13 - 01:04:44:09
Speaker 3
Opus of like, beautiful math. He's got his own field of maths called Galois Theory. And it's all about lead groups in like different. It's very related to group theory, like I was talking about and all this stuff. So anyways, it's about symmetry and rational roots of polynomials. So it's, it's like this like very abstract. Like you can't look at this stuff you have to describe based on maybe what you're thinking, what you can try and visualize.
01:04:44:10 - 01:05:02:05
Speaker 3
Maybe he writes all this stuff down before his duel. He gives it to his brother and he's like, something was to happen. Let me just give this to the college. And then he goes out and gets shot and dies at 22. And those notes that he wrote get put in the college that told him he couldn't go there.
01:05:02:07 - 01:05:04:17
Speaker 3
And they take it and they're like, oh my God, this is amazing.
01:05:04:21 - 01:05:07:01
Speaker 1
This is so crazy and beautiful.
01:05:07:01 - 01:05:26:19
Speaker 3
And he's dead at that point. But he's opening up this entire field of mathematics that now, hundreds of years later, is still happening. It's still being developed on. So in a way, yes, he discovered it, but also invented it, if that makes sense.
01:05:26:21 - 01:05:35:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like he only he could have invented it but yeah. Yeah.
01:05:35:18 - 01:05:43:04
Speaker 2
It's like this complicated. It really makes you what I always default to like like where do ideas really come from. Like what is an idea.
01:05:43:23 - 01:06:08:13
Speaker 2
But I feel like there is these, you know what wonder kids, especially in math, like, you know, I've heard Eric Weinstein talk about a cop. I cannot remember any of their names. Go figure. But, he's talked about how he's been in classes, or he sits, there's some young, young, like, person in the back, and there's a, you know, a room full of mathematicians and in physicists and all these, you know, self self-appointed smart people.
01:06:08:15 - 01:06:20:17
Speaker 2
And, one person will ask a question or it's their turn to give you know, ten, 20 minute lecture or whatever. And like these lifelong mathematicians are leaning over going, I have no.
01:06:20:17 - 01:06:24:20
Speaker 1
Idea what he's talking about. Yeah. Like, yeah, that that.
01:06:24:20 - 01:06:31:24
Speaker 2
Is just so profound. And it's very interesting, like kind of the savant nature of some of these skills like,
01:06:32:01 - 01:06:33:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, that I think about that.
01:06:33:15 - 01:06:36:22
Speaker 2
That show numbers.
01:06:36:24 - 01:06:37:10
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:06:37:12 - 01:06:38:11
Speaker 2
Like like that.
01:06:38:13 - 01:06:39:15
Speaker 3
Throwback.
01:06:39:17 - 01:06:42:11
Speaker 1
I know, I think we watched in high school actually. Yeah.
01:06:42:13 - 01:07:06:01
Speaker 2
I it's one of those that I always, whenever I think of it, I go, man, I wonder if we've watched that. I want to go into it as much. But like he clearly has some, you know, at least in the, in the show anyway, he has like some savant level mathematician stuff and he's able to, you know, kind of like he describes like can describe crimes in these like, intricate ways and like, here's what the murders motivational motivation was.
01:07:06:03 - 01:07:13:19
Speaker 2
And they interacted with this person. And I know that that show is kind of, blew my mind, but so do you think that it's much.
01:07:13:19 - 01:07:17:23
Speaker 1
Is you know, we have, you know, the.
01:07:18:00 - 01:07:38:12
Speaker 2
Gandhi and, you know, we have these kind of like, are we live in such a world where, believe it or not, it can be up to you. But there is these savants that are born like, oh, that's the next Buddha or that's. Yeah, you know, this person at five years old started showing signs of like knowing some shit that he shouldn't know.
01:07:38:12 - 01:07:59:11
Speaker 2
And so now we, like, put him in robes and we worship him and whatever, you know, we listen to what he has to say for the rest of his life. I think there's something a bit magical about like, math skills sometimes even like, yeah, there's people born with some of these insane ways of seeing the world. It's like like you said, like, do they have some sort of language that they're born kind of.
01:07:59:11 - 01:08:15:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. Being fluent in. And it's just a matter of them being able to like, express it in somehow in their lives. I don't know. What do you think about that? Do you think there's like people born with with specific skills, in math and science and those sorts of things.
01:08:15:09 - 01:08:39:06
Speaker 3
I think if you had asked me this question five years ago, I'd be like, no, now there's there's something that happened in their life that, you know, led them to have that ability. Now, I'm much more open to the idea that, yeah, somebody probably, some of these people probably just their brains get wired from the moment they were conceived to, you know, produce these things.
01:08:39:08 - 01:08:55:22
Speaker 3
It's one of those mathematicians is living right now named Terry Tao, who at like eight was like PhD level mathematics, you know, crazy stuff. He's a he's a very, very, very well-known. He's got a beautiful blog about.
01:08:55:22 - 01:08:56:24
Speaker 1
Mathematics.
01:08:57:01 - 01:09:25:06
Speaker 3
Where he answers you, asks questions, and like, muses about mathematics is super cool guy. He's he's written a lot of great, analysis, textbooks and things like that. But, Terry Tao is definitely one of those people. Further back, there's any no author who discovered an entire theory around, rings. Like a type of ring, in ring theory, mathematical object.
01:09:25:08 - 01:09:50:22
Speaker 3
And she worked closely with Einstein, actually, and she was one of the first women appointed at some German institute or something that that Einstein was on because she had applied and she was working, doing all this stuff and she, she like, was finishing her PhD and doing all this stuff, but like, everybody was kind of like hush hush about it.
01:09:50:22 - 01:10:15:05
Speaker 3
They were all like, well, you know, women. Yeah. All that stuff that they did back then. And Einstein was kind of like, you guys are stupid. What are you doing? And they were like, oh, well, if Einstein's cool with it, then. So she got like appointed and she started like teaching and all that stuff. But she's another person where like from an early age, she was apparently able to visualize the fourth dimension, which is mind boggling to me.
01:10:15:07 - 01:10:18:01
Speaker 3
I don't know if you've ever read the book flatland.
01:10:18:03 - 01:10:20:14
Speaker 2
I I've heard of it, I know of it, but I haven't read it.
01:10:20:16 - 01:10:32:17
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's like you know, if you're two dimensional being imagining the third dimension is crazy. Like you couldn't imagine it. And so, like thinking of us in the third dimension and her being able to think about things and being.
01:10:32:17 - 01:10:33:13
Speaker 1
Like, oh.
01:10:33:13 - 01:10:46:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, well, you know what? The fourth dimension, the geometry works like this. And it's like she has the math to back it up and stuff. And it's like, that was intuitive. She intuited it. And five years ago, I'd say there's no such thing as intuition.
01:10:46:10 - 01:10:47:21
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:10:47:23 - 01:10:53:18
Speaker 2
And somehow this lady lives on a complete separate plane than us, and she's able to communicate, like how it makes sense to us on her.
01:10:53:18 - 01:10:56:11
Speaker 3
Way before with no training. Yeah.
01:10:56:13 - 01:10:57:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:10:57:23 - 01:11:22:02
Speaker 2
Okay. So what do you think? You know, there's, in kind of like, the math and physics community I kind of lean into. I'm always wanting to think of ways like, I have, like, this Einstein poster behind thing behind me. It's a I didn't paint it. I bought it from, like, Fred Meyer. But, I did paint, so I'm such an artist.
01:11:22:04 - 01:11:46:23
Speaker 2
I painted sorry on it. And, like, what's funny is, like, it's deep to me. It's not deep, but it's deep to me because, like, my where I come from as an artist, like, I love breaking shit. I love bulldozing shit. I love like like, you know, I think, like, our Einstein gave us these equations and we're, like, continually working on these equations and we're continually like going that way.
01:11:47:04 - 01:12:08:15
Speaker 2
And I think where we're at with like, quantum physics and stuff, you know, again, like Eric Weinstein explains a lot of kind of what he thinks, a lot of that. And I think maybe I just kind of parody a lot of his his opinions in some ways. But like, to me, I feel that we're more on the cusp as a species of, like, discovering a new way.
01:12:08:15 - 01:12:33:11
Speaker 2
Like, I don't think that our next big explosion in understanding who and what we are and like new dimensions and like, whatever the future of technology and, intelligence is, you know, 20, 50, 102 hundred years. I don't specifically think that it's only in the direction that Einstein sent us in. I also don't think that it's in like this, like quantum strangeness, this quantum weirdness.
01:12:33:13 - 01:12:52:09
Speaker 2
Like, we keep like, there's a lot of, you know, on YouTube and books and all these things, like, I think we keep having these, like quantum smoking guns that people are like, oh, this is how reality works. And like, it's actually many worlds. And and at any point you're pulling from, infinite number of worlds to make this reality.
01:12:52:11 - 01:13:15:19
Speaker 2
And like, we keep, like, sitting back. All right, we figured it out, like. And and to me, I'm just like, what is that? There's no, that's not the end. I hope this makes sense to you, but, Yeah, I don't know. So what do you. I'm more prone to think that our next advancements are not so much in the realm of quantum physics, but more so in not so much in the realm of physics.
01:13:15:19 - 01:13:34:12
Speaker 2
At all, actually, for that matter, I don't think that what's new for humans in consciousness is let's get to Mars and we'll figure it out. Let's see what's beyond Mars. I don't think it's in time and space necessarily. I think that it's more in the weirdness of like psychedelics where like you unfold you, you discover these other realms that are kind of all right here in some way.
01:13:34:12 - 01:13:51:20
Speaker 2
So, another impossible question for you, Blake, but what do you so what do you think about, like, the future of math and physics over the course of, like, 50, 200, 500 years? Are we face in the right direction or are we going to get into some weird directions? Is it still math? Is it not math? I'll hand that to you, isn't it?
01:13:51:22 - 01:13:54:10
Speaker 1
Yes.
01:13:54:12 - 01:13:54:23
Speaker 1
I don't know.
01:13:54:23 - 01:13:58:05
Speaker 3
If it's impossible, but it's definitely an interesting question for.
01:13:58:05 - 01:14:02:20
Speaker 1
Sure. Where are we going?
01:14:02:22 - 01:14:08:09
Speaker 3
I'm in immediately thinking about, Ray Kurzweil. Do you know who that is?
01:14:08:13 - 01:14:10:02
Speaker 1
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
01:14:10:04 - 01:14:12:20
Speaker 3
The father of AI,
01:14:12:22 - 01:14:13:17
Speaker 1
It did.
01:14:13:19 - 01:14:28:05
Speaker 3
As a sidebar really quick. Did you know that he has all of his father's journals? His father was like a prolific journal there, and he's like, wrote every day, and he's got, like, a whole room full of his father's journals from, like, 70 years of journaling.
01:14:28:06 - 01:14:30:01
Speaker 1
That's so sick. I didn't know that he.
01:14:30:01 - 01:14:43:13
Speaker 3
Was originally going to, like, trying to put it, digitize it, and then rebuild his father digitally from all of this thing, which is absolutely insane and super cool.
01:14:43:15 - 01:14:45:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:45:16 - 01:15:15:16
Speaker 3
But I think about him and the, the exponential rate of technology growth, exponential rate of growth in technology. So, you know, I feel like everybody's maybe I've just said it a million times over the many years. But, you know, you think about like the difference between iPhone one, two, three and then like all the way up, like it's the fact that we had no iPhone 20 years ago.
01:15:15:18 - 01:15:18:21
Speaker 3
And then when it was the first iPhone in 2005.
01:15:18:24 - 01:15:21:22
Speaker 1
Maybe ten, seven, I think it's.
01:15:21:24 - 01:15:42:10
Speaker 3
Somewhere around there. Yeah, yeah. So anyways, we didn't we didn't have an out. And then the iPhone that we have today is like better than most people's cameras and like, you know, more powerful than anything that's ever. And then, you know, the amount of time it took for us to just get from like the computer that put us on the moon to, you know, windows with like a.
01:15:42:12 - 01:15:43:02
Speaker 1
You know.
01:15:43:02 - 01:16:00:18
Speaker 3
And then we got on trackpads and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So and then we got iPads and like a lot of people are using their computers, just straight off of an iPad, you know, where they have like a detachable keyboard and it's like, you know, it's very, very futuristic, very, very weird. Nobody had any idea that that's where we were going with it.
01:16:00:18 - 01:16:03:06
Speaker 3
I mean, I'm sure there's some freaky people that were like.
01:16:03:08 - 01:16:03:14
Speaker 1
In.
01:16:03:14 - 01:16:10:23
Speaker 3
100. I think there's some like, books from like the 20s where they talked about, like a future where people touch the screen.
01:16:10:23 - 01:16:12:04
Speaker 1
Just on that.
01:16:12:06 - 01:16:17:02
Speaker 3
But, yeah, I think that there's.
01:16:17:04 - 01:16:20:14
Speaker 1
An endless, how do I, I.
01:16:20:14 - 01:16:48:10
Speaker 3
Want to say this. I think that the technology is changing so fast now that in a lot of ways that you're talking about, you know, physics and math not being like the future or like whatever that's going to do, especially with, you know, in regards to human consciousness. That's because so much of that is just happening all at once.
01:16:48:12 - 01:16:50:10
Speaker 1
Right?
01:16:50:12 - 01:17:14:11
Speaker 3
With labs and AI, we can do protein folding and we can figure out things for drugs in, you know, fractions of the time that it used to take ten years to figure out how to do one drug or whatever, or like, figure out, anything about viruses or anything about the human genome or anything like that. Like the computation power that we have today is insane.
01:17:14:14 - 01:17:28:04
Speaker 3
Just in, you know, my MacBook or, and our burner phones, even just like the computation power inside of this to do things inside the one that's in my ear is crazy. I'm sure it's, you know, better than whatever they put us on the moon with.
01:17:28:06 - 01:17:29:19
Speaker 1
You know? You know.
01:17:29:21 - 01:17:33:15
Speaker 3
And it's all it does. Is it just put sound in my ear, you know?
01:17:33:15 - 01:17:35:12
Speaker 1
So,
01:17:35:14 - 01:17:44:12
Speaker 3
You're right. I think that society probably will will do like, the circle, you know, the the flat disk of time where.
01:17:44:14 - 01:17:45:00
Speaker 1
It.
01:17:45:00 - 01:17:56:12
Speaker 3
Pretty soon it'll be too intense and there will be a a I think our conscious as a consciousness, as a, as.
01:17:56:14 - 01:18:25:23
Speaker 3
Our consciousness as humanity is being offloaded into the cyber realm slowly, like bit by bit, there's pieces of you like you've, you've always done the Jacob from the internet thing, like you're tuned in to that, like that idea that there is a separate consciousness that's happening online. It's happening outside of us as humans, and we're slowly like, so much is happening there that's not anywhere in the real world.
01:18:26:00 - 01:18:50:07
Speaker 3
You know, there's stuff that I've said to people that if all the power went out in the world, it just wouldn't exist anymore, you know? I mean, it exist, but like, you couldn't get to it, you couldn't experience it, you couldn't see. And in a lot of ways, that's completely the same. Like, it's not like a written, rote note that's been given to somebody where it's this exists until it doesn't, it's where is it?
01:18:50:09 - 01:18:51:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:18:51:06 - 01:19:13:15
Speaker 3
So I think that as that goes, human consciousness from what we actually are the meditation, all the cool stuff that it's like being human, going offline, all that kind of stuff. That's probably what we'll get more into. We'll let cyber us do all the physics, all the math, all the other junk, and then we'll just get to sit around in.
01:19:13:17 - 01:19:14:15
Speaker 1
Wow, what a.
01:19:14:17 - 01:19:15:06
Speaker 3
Think about it.
01:19:15:12 - 01:19:36:04
Speaker 2
I love that thought, man. It's like, like it reminds me of that, you know, like, Alan Watts kind of talks about how we're all just kind of like a splinter of God, like it was one big thing, and then it's all. We're all just like splinters of of, like, the one big thing, having experiences just for the fun of it sort of thing.
01:19:36:08 - 01:19:44:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. And like, now we kind of, you know, for lack of a better sense, have the power to fraction ourselves once more.
01:19:44:10 - 01:19:45:01
Speaker 1
You know, like.
01:19:45:01 - 01:20:06:10
Speaker 2
Create a, like I always called the, you know, with the Jacob from the internet thing. I, I really think about our internet selves and just being connected to the internet and the fact that at any moment I could be, you know, I'm talking with my friend, but like, at any moment I can have I could be pulled by this, like, vortex, this like, dirt tunnel.
01:20:06:13 - 01:20:14:20
Speaker 2
That's not a dirt tunnel. It's like this digital dirt tunnel to like, like right now, I could just get off airplane mode and, like, just see a live stream of China.
01:20:14:22 - 01:20:17:10
Speaker 1
Yep. Holy fuck. Dude. Like, you know, I mean.
01:20:17:16 - 01:20:36:20
Speaker 2
Like, this is a magic box into, like, other places in the universe, but it's, I wonder how much. Not only that, it fractions us and, like, who we are, you know, we're we're fracturing ourselves before we fully understand what we are. And I don't know if that's a bug or a feature, but, Yeah. Like I always kind of call it this second ego in a way.
01:20:36:22 - 01:21:00:02
Speaker 2
You know, in, in I think that, you know, I see it a lot. And I really love, like the spiritual community. I love like the, like the, like the, the rock girls in the, in the crystals and the like the chanting like, I love, like the very, like woowoo side of things, but at the same time I see how much it's like, oh, y'all are being tricked by like a second ego.
01:21:00:04 - 01:21:02:13
Speaker 2
Like you think you are this spiritual.
01:21:02:15 - 01:21:03:13
Speaker 1
Love that.
01:21:03:15 - 01:21:11:17
Speaker 2
Because you have so many followers online and then you like, act that out, but like get rid of your phone for six months and you're going to have a fucking identity crisis of like, who you are.
01:21:11:17 - 01:21:12:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:21:12:04 - 01:21:16:10
Speaker 2
And your day to day life without the phone feeling things like, you know.
01:21:16:10 - 01:21:17:06
Speaker 1
You.
01:21:17:08 - 01:21:23:13
Speaker 2
You still deal with like, patterns, like when you go talk to your mom and try to bring her to it, to her doctor's appointment. You know, like, how spiritual.
01:21:23:13 - 01:21:28:10
Speaker 1
Like, really when you're both triggering your, you know, so I, I.
01:21:28:10 - 01:21:48:13
Speaker 2
I don't know, I really wonder about, like, I think it's so fascinating to continue what technology and like we're going to just keep coming up with edges of like we can't ignore the question of who and what we are like. It's part of the human experience. And it's not a question to be answered in like, cool. All right.
01:21:48:15 - 01:21:50:01
Speaker 1
Next. Yeah. It's it's a.
01:21:50:01 - 01:22:10:11
Speaker 2
Continuous like we're always, you know, everyone's experiences like discovering who they are and also discovering who they are. Not. So yeah, I know I, I love to think about the future of technology and like how it really intricately, you know, it exposes us to who who we are on a, on a continuous level in who or not.
01:22:10:11 - 01:22:14:06
Speaker 2
Right. You know, so, yeah. It's it's a limitations.
01:22:14:08 - 01:22:15:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:22:15:03 - 01:22:17:17
Speaker 2
It's interesting to think of where we're going. Right. It's.
01:22:17:19 - 01:22:18:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:22:18:10 - 01:22:23:14
Speaker 2
I would love for math and physics to kind of open up in a direction that we could never predict.
01:22:23:16 - 01:22:25:09
Speaker 1
At the know.
01:22:25:11 - 01:22:42:02
Speaker 3
I think that there's this reminds me of, around us talk where he's because a lot of times technology gets very doom and gloom. Right? Like people like you're kind of saying, like, there's a lot of. Yeah. Anyways, the around us is talking about talking with that.
01:22:44:10 - 01:23:03:24
Speaker 3
Famous conservationist. I can't remember what his name was. But he was talking about, like, how do you, like, keep it together? You know, like the the, CO2 is going crazy. Like, the forests are getting cut down, like, what do you do? And he's like, you know, wasn't that long ago that we crawled out of the.
01:23:03:24 - 01:23:05:16
Speaker 1
Ocean, you know, don't don't.
01:23:05:16 - 01:23:07:06
Speaker 3
Write humans off so quick.
01:23:07:08 - 01:23:09:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
01:23:09:15 - 01:23:26:01
Speaker 3
So I think that with our in a lot of ways, we're cursed and blessed with short lives, but it often makes us it makes it hard to think about what I mean in 2 million years, what are we going to.
01:23:26:03 - 01:23:28:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like God, I that's a.
01:23:28:09 - 01:23:35:22
Speaker 2
That's such a perfect point to imagine. Like, where in the ocean were these fucking tadpoles swimming around? And we're like the what.
01:23:35:22 - 01:23:44:10
Speaker 1
Are we going to do one day? And like there's this Carl's Jr. We freaking yeah, dude, crawl up on the beach and then.
01:23:44:10 - 01:23:46:21
Speaker 2
It's like a whole new, you know. Oh oxygen.
01:23:46:23 - 01:23:47:21
Speaker 1
Like that. Yeah. Yeah.
01:23:47:21 - 01:23:49:23
Speaker 3
Trees. Yeah. There's stuff up here.
01:23:50:01 - 01:24:09:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. We are completely not disconnected from the trees. And now we are at one more than we were in the first place. So yeah. Wouldn't it be fascinating if like, you know, on the, on the front page of CNN or Fox News or NBC or any of these, you know, for whatever reason, this analogy of this, that's the news networks who are telling us what we are.
01:24:09:19 - 01:24:11:09
Speaker 2
But,
01:24:11:11 - 01:24:12:00
Speaker 1
Like new.
01:24:12:00 - 01:24:17:13
Speaker 2
Discovery that we can pop out of this dimension completely. And it's a whole new rallying reality out there.
01:24:17:16 - 01:24:18:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:24:18:08 - 01:24:22:15
Speaker 2
We just lose interest in this reality because there's a new dimension being unfolded.
01:24:22:17 - 01:24:31:19
Speaker 3
Oh my. You know what? That actually is such a great. Have you? I want to ask you this. I've been thinking about this for months. The, CIA, like.
01:24:33:18 - 01:24:41:09
Speaker 3
The classified, some stuff that they did on, psychedelic work, not psychedelics, but like, you know.
01:24:43:10 - 01:24:58:15
Speaker 3
What did they parrot parapsychology or something like that? And and have you heard of it's Project Stargate? There's the opening eye one that's like, famous right now because it's a bunch of money. But, then there's this other one called Project Stargate. Have you heard of it?
01:24:58:17 - 01:25:00:21
Speaker 2
I've heard of it, but you have to endorsement. You have.
01:25:00:21 - 01:25:01:01
Speaker 1
To.
01:25:01:02 - 01:25:10:21
Speaker 3
Yeah, I will, I will. So the government taught these, CIA agents how to astral project.
01:25:12:03 - 01:25:37:20
Speaker 3
And they had them do experiments with it. And according to this report, very thorough. Fascinating read. They did it. And they met beings and, like, could go into other rooms and see what was written on cards and stuff and like, report back like, oh yeah. So is this because they were trying to use it like all governments to do some warfare stuff, you know, thinking, oh, we can travel.
01:25:37:23 - 01:25:58:21
Speaker 3
But then it got like too sketchy because they kept running into things that they didn't know how to deal with, whether or not that was, you know, them bringing their karma along with them or whatever. You know, you can argue, but but I to that exact point, if it seems like maybe we can, I would it would be interesting if we as a society could just astral project and like have a dance party, you know?
01:25:58:23 - 01:26:00:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, dude.
01:26:00:10 - 01:26:08:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, imagine that instead of like, me, me saying, hey, I'm going live on Twitch. It's like, hey, I'm going live, at this place that I made up in my head, you guys can come. Yeah.
01:26:08:19 - 01:26:12:11
Speaker 1
Like, come on in. Yeah. After project and come on over it. Oh, how.
01:26:12:11 - 01:26:36:18
Speaker 2
Sick is that though to really think about, like, have you heard of the telepathy tapes? Have you heard about the phenomenon? Oh, my word is so it's it's this like ten part, maybe six part, podcast series, but it's like an audio documentary, essentially this this lady, k k something, k something, but essentially she discovered and she went and, like, traveled all these places, interviewed the kids, interviewed their parents.
01:26:36:18 - 01:27:01:06
Speaker 2
Essentially, there's a phenomenon worldwide. And this is like thousands and thousands of people like proof. We did the science we like filmed it. We made sure it's like the the correct boundaries are set in place to make it actually a scientific study, these sorts of things, but essentially, mute or non-verbal autistic young people are able to telepathically communicate.
01:27:01:08 - 01:27:27:16
Speaker 2
We discovered it at the beginning. So the this podcast series goes into the beginning. It lays out kind of, how there is kind of this like unison dance with, like, these mute kids and their parents, like the person that the closest to. And they did those sorts of research studies where like, you know, the parent goes in the other room, the parent is thinking of a certain object or a number, and the kid is in the other room, like not able to talk, but they're like able to write it out or like they can spell with them, they call it.
01:27:27:16 - 01:27:47:01
Speaker 2
But like they have little numbers and letters they point to. Yeah. And consistently they have all these different studies and tests where it shows that somehow, someway, the kid is reading the mind of the adult in the other room, whether it's their teacher or their parent or whatever. So like that in itself is wow, mind blowing, right? But it keeps piling on these telepathy tapes.
01:27:47:03 - 01:28:01:02
Speaker 2
I urge anybody listening to check it out. Such a fascinating listen. And they're just really well done is an audio documentary. They have this place, place called The Hill in this place ominous. Yeah, it's a hill. And it is.
01:28:01:02 - 01:28:02:14
Speaker 1
A.
01:28:02:16 - 01:28:23:19
Speaker 2
Telepathic chat room that these these nonverbal kids, they, like, just kind of casually mentioned, in my opinion, this is kind of how it went across casually mentioned like, oh yeah, I'll see you on the hill later. I what and so non-verbal kids. So like I say, I'm in Washington State and I'm a nonverbal, like, 12 year old kid.
01:28:23:19 - 01:28:42:08
Speaker 2
I don't talk, but I go to this place in my room where I get under the covers and I put blankets over my head, and I go to the hill and I talk with my friend, Francis, who lives in Virginia. I've never met Frances in my entire life. I don't know this person exists. I don't have they're not my friend online.
01:28:42:10 - 01:28:56:18
Speaker 2
But I talk to this person named Francis at the Hill. And then these people from the telepathy tapes, they go and they meet Francis and like, oh, Steve. Yeah, it's two lives in Washington. Yeah. We've talked together on the Hill. So there's a bunch of these, like.
01:28:56:20 - 01:28:57:17
Speaker 1
These.
01:28:57:19 - 01:29:14:08
Speaker 2
Instances of these things that these people are saying are happening or these, nonverbal autistic kids are saying or communicating in some way with their, their ways that like, yes, I know this person, I meet this person. Oh, I go and hang out with him on the hill, this place. Oh, you don't know about the hill. That's just a place we go in our minds and talk with our friends.
01:29:14:10 - 01:29:15:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:29:15:03 - 01:29:33:07
Speaker 2
But anyway, that's so that's kind of like, you know, there's a bunch of other cool little, like, tips and tricks that go along with this whole telepathy tapes thing, but, I mean, it's we're at this point where this is, you know, less than six months ago, this was like a very popular podcast. And so it's like, what do we do?
01:29:33:09 - 01:29:54:21
Speaker 2
Like, we have these, we close I can't we call them truths like, this is a true thing. We have some scientific research studies that, you know, placebo or not, these people are able to I don't know how else you get to the point where someone in a different state is communicating non-verbally with this other individual and can confirm things that like they're not texting, they're not yeah, they don't have walkie talkies.
01:29:54:21 - 01:29:59:10
Speaker 2
Like, all right, tell these suckers that like, I'm holding up three red triangles.
01:29:59:13 - 01:30:01:12
Speaker 1
You know, like, yeah.
01:30:01:14 - 01:30:10:16
Speaker 2
So I don't know, like like what's crazy is we seem to be discovering more about reality at this amplified rate.
01:30:10:18 - 01:30:12:22
Speaker 1
And what.
01:30:12:24 - 01:30:32:12
Speaker 2
Like where what is that smoking gun? What is that, like, thing that we discovered? When does it start changing our reality? Because to me, meaning is discovery. Okay, why don't we start studying? Like, is it just nonverbal people who can do this? Is this something that if we train all young individuals to do, they can go to this place called the Hill.
01:30:32:17 - 01:30:53:17
Speaker 2
Is there more information there? Like like how fascinating is that? This stuff that we discover in meditation, in these telepathic realms, in, these other realms, these other spaces, these liminal places, what do we do with the information that we discover there and bring it back? Like we're like, hey, we have this golden egg.
01:30:53:19 - 01:30:56:00
Speaker 1
100% like it.
01:30:56:02 - 01:30:57:15
Speaker 2
How fascinating. You know.
01:30:57:21 - 01:30:58:04
Speaker 1
Man.
01:30:58:04 - 01:31:02:16
Speaker 3
Were to. We're too busy being somebody right?
01:31:02:18 - 01:31:04:02
Speaker 1
Everybody's too busy.
01:31:04:04 - 01:31:13:15
Speaker 3
I'm not going to go check out the hill because I have to, you know, I have to make more money so I can buy a car because I'm, you know, the guy who has the sports car in my neighborhood.
01:31:13:17 - 01:31:16:12
Speaker 1
I'm an important person. Yeah, yeah.
01:31:16:14 - 01:31:40:08
Speaker 3
Or I'm too busy, you know, doing just whatever, whatever it might even be. Just you trying to survive. But that's also just a function of people. Not people being too busy being somebody to, like, recognize that, you always get higher when you're with someone else, you know, it's not. It's not something that we should be isolating people about or anything like that.
01:31:40:10 - 01:31:43:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's so it's it's it's.
01:31:44:00 - 01:31:48:18
Speaker 3
It's it's like it's a bummer. Like you're you're right. You're on it. You know.
01:31:48:22 - 01:31:53:01
Speaker 1
I want to go to the hill. Let's do it. Yeah. Why not?
01:31:53:03 - 01:31:57:14
Speaker 2
You know, it's it's a funny middle ground of being a human to write of.
01:31:57:15 - 01:31:59:00
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:31:59:02 - 01:32:05:22
Speaker 2
You know, like, around us would say it's always been my favorite of, you know, always remember your Buddha nature and your social security number.
01:32:06:03 - 01:32:06:07
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:32:06:08 - 01:32:07:24
Speaker 3
I don't like weird code.
01:32:08:03 - 01:32:20:02
Speaker 2
We are fucking. We're right. And that we're we're right in the middle of all of it. Like you can have you like the telepathy tapes. That's all cool, but, like, you're still in a biological meat suit that, like, needs to eat food tonight if I.
01:32:20:04 - 01:32:21:16
Speaker 1
Like, you know? Yeah. Like.
01:32:21:18 - 01:32:43:03
Speaker 2
Somehow we are in this insane experience. This insane, like, what it is to be human is we have these survival things, and we have this knowledge of how we got to where we are. And like, you know, we had to we crawled out of the water somehow, or something, and we grew wings or something, and we started having opposable thumbs or something.
01:32:43:05 - 01:32:52:11
Speaker 2
But also we have these thoughts about being all that is. And we could close our eyes and talk to people who are in different physical locations.
01:32:52:13 - 01:32:53:14
Speaker 1
What?
01:32:53:16 - 01:33:18:07
Speaker 2
You know, that's paradox. You know, it's really that is one of the more spiritual words in my opinion, is paradox. Somehow we're smack dab in the middle of, you know, I went to, I went to the Transcendental Meditation, like university, is in Fairfield, Iowa, and it's, I went like a stayed on their campus for a few days, and I went, I was drinking the Kool-Aid, man.
01:33:18:07 - 01:33:45:01
Speaker 2
I almost do in their cult is awesome. I, I it's a joke when I call it a call that white people call it. Yeah, really a lovely. I had a wonderful experience. Like cult or not. I thought it was fucking awesome. But we were on the bus and, I was in a place with my spiritual experience where I had just had, like, some kind of profound, like, chance encounters with people who talk to me about God and they, like, gave me encouragement to go on this trip.
01:33:45:01 - 01:34:02:11
Speaker 2
And so I was on this, like, weird cloud nine. Like, everything just made sense. Like the physical made sense with the metaphysical. And we're on this bus and there's a lot of people who are like, really into that. They're like discovering like, oh, wow, I'm I'm at one with all it is in like we are consciousness itself.
01:34:02:11 - 01:34:25:04
Speaker 2
And like, you do this meditation where you do this mantra on repeat with transcendental meditation and that the mantra you kind of like the mantra keeps going up here in your mind and you kind of like settle your experience into this, like, like going down below. You're kind of in this like, you know, one consciousness. You feel you are the ocean.
01:34:25:05 - 01:34:42:20
Speaker 2
You're not identifying with the waves or whatever. It's it's a wonderfully blissful experience for most. But you're doing that for months on end, twice a day, 20 minutes a day with transcendental meditation. And then you're trying to like you're experiencing being one with all that is, and then you're you're also like trying to pay the bills into your dishes.
01:34:42:20 - 01:35:03:06
Speaker 2
You might find this, this balance between the we're on this bus and people are having kind of like that freak out experience of like, whoa, you know, we keep having these conversations and we go, we listen to these cool teachers at this university, and they tell us that we're all one consciousness. And like when you're listening to it, you're nodding your head like, wow, this is this.
01:35:03:12 - 01:35:20:11
Speaker 2
Because when a lot you're listening to a lot of spiritual stuff, it feels like a remembering. It doesn't seem like someone's telling you new info about yourself. You're like, that's that's true. It doesn't negate all this stuff. That also feels very true. But like, I can't deny that what you're saying feels like. I guess I kind of am all one with that is.
01:35:20:13 - 01:35:21:05
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:35:21:07 - 01:35:39:19
Speaker 2
And, it was just this balance of, you know, I'm telling these people this, this emphasis on this word paradox of like what you're saying is true, but like, I notice like we get kind of freaked out about it, but, like, somehow we're both we're all of that. We are this everything. But we're still on this bus right now.
01:35:39:21 - 01:35:53:10
Speaker 2
And like, it's the end of the day. And we've all been learning and we're also kind of getting a little bit tired, right? Like we're so excited about this. Like we're on people who are on the spiritual realm, and there's people who are riding high and they're all vibing out, and they I could talk about, you know, God and the Buddha, and they know what I'm talking about.
01:35:53:10 - 01:36:03:08
Speaker 2
And that's so stellar. But like, also like if you, you know, like I'm, I'm allergic to gluten. If I gluten, I'm still going to have like a whole gassy night.
01:36:03:10 - 01:36:03:24
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:36:04:01 - 01:36:06:10
Speaker 2
The one with all that is. But I still have a butt that farts.
01:36:06:15 - 01:36:09:00
Speaker 1
Damn. Yeah.
01:36:09:02 - 01:36:14:18
Speaker 2
You know, so I, I don't know. What do you think about all that, man? I love that. Yeah, for you, but.
01:36:14:20 - 01:37:01:08
Speaker 3
You know it does. And I'll tell you, this is my more rat. This is one of my more radical, beliefs about. I. And it's that, you know, in my dream world, in the future, if I was king of the world again, and I was never angry because I got to decide everything and there was no traffic, I would, we would be spending our time now as humans to set up the infrastructure, set up the philosophies, set up the, procedures for everything that we need to deal with to be, right at the perfect time.
01:37:01:10 - 01:37:22:14
Speaker 3
Everything to be in cyberspace. All the AI stuff, like have it do this stuff that, doesn't allow people to get free, right? Like, if you know, maybe we want to focus on cooking, that's fine. But it would be nice if there was like, we were using AI to create robots that actually cooked correctly and well and, like, could work for people.
01:37:22:20 - 01:37:34:08
Speaker 3
And the more we do those things, the more we should be cutting checks from the work that the robots are doing to everybody. And then everybody gets a nice, you know, very.
01:37:34:08 - 01:37:36:13
Speaker 1
Communist.
01:37:36:15 - 01:38:08:04
Speaker 3
Very utopia, very share. The wealthy universal basic income basically built on everything else is doing what it's doing. Like it would be great if we could harness ChatGPT in some way that allows it to do the content. Sure. Like some of the boring content that doesn't need creative aspects to it. Right? Maybe you could write textbooks and then textbooks are free, you know, like nobody has to pay for a textbook because nobody actually created the textbook.
01:38:08:07 - 01:38:09:06
Speaker 3
You know.
01:38:10:01 - 01:38:17:23
Speaker 3
It's just a siphon from the human consciousness, which belongs to all of us. So either pay all of us or make it free.
01:38:18:00 - 01:38:25:14
Speaker 2
So it sounds like you're able to touch on maybe like an optimistic view of AI.
01:38:25:18 - 01:38:27:15
Speaker 1
Does that sound weird?
01:38:27:17 - 01:38:28:15
Speaker 2
Can I ask you about that?
01:38:28:15 - 01:38:29:03
Speaker 1
Can I?
01:38:29:05 - 01:38:43:14
Speaker 2
I think just trying to come from where it seems that everyone is, you know, most people who are kind of acutely aware of AI or maybe they use a little ChatGPT or maybe they're even in a place where they haven't used ChatGPT. I think it's safe.
01:38:43:14 - 01:38:44:12
Speaker 1
To say that.
01:38:44:14 - 01:38:47:04
Speaker 2
The whole AI thing actually kind of freaks people out.
01:38:47:06 - 01:38:49:01
Speaker 1
In a lot of way.
01:38:49:03 - 01:39:10:15
Speaker 2
Some of my conversations go to like the like, really, really quickly, like diabolical corners when it comes to AI. For some, I just don't respect it. So as someone who it seems you are maybe optimistic in it in you are clearly, intelligent and knowledgeable in this field. Why are you optimistic and why are maybe some other people not?
01:39:10:17 - 01:39:13:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. I.
01:39:13:07 - 01:39:31:11
Speaker 3
Think the it's shorter for me to talk about why people are not. So I'll start with that. It's it's a lot of it comes from a healthy skepticism and the fact that this technology came very quick out of seemingly nowhere where suddenly we're like.
01:39:31:13 - 01:39:32:15
Speaker 1
Oh.
01:39:32:17 - 01:39:48:17
Speaker 3
Okay, we can do this. But we couldn't like five years ago, and it doesn't seem like it was that big of a deal. And why is this a problem and all that kind of stuff? So I think it's just that, you know, early skepticism, the haters, there's always going to be haters and they're always going to come out and it's fine.
01:39:48:19 - 01:39:52:21
Speaker 3
I think it's beautiful. I think that this, technology deserves.
01:39:54:01 - 01:40:24:24
Speaker 3
To be scrutinized and deserves to be used, ethically and safely for sure. But I think that a lot of people, it just comes from not understanding it. And a lot of that chaos of it coming out and being like, okay, hold on a second. Two days ago, I couldn't talk with something in this way. Nothing. You know, I couldn't I remember when it when ChatGPT first got released to the public, like to the, to the developers.
01:40:25:04 - 01:40:49:24
Speaker 3
So the machine learning subreddit on Reddit, there was like discussion, like people were like, oh my God, you guys, these transformer models like blah blah blah. And I remember I commented on it and I was like, why don't you try and give it a sentence that's written like this? Because, like what you could do before was like, if you chopped, there was the way that the computers would look at.
01:40:50:01 - 01:40:50:17
Speaker 1
And.
01:40:50:19 - 01:41:04:24
Speaker 3
These are neural networks. So they're, it's the artificial intelligence, it's machine learning. It's, they're neural networks. They basically just take a bunch of numbers and, and make some decisions and put out what it thinks is the outcome. Right.
01:41:05:20 - 01:41:22:14
Speaker 3
The way that it went before there was, there was not really a notion of what they call attention now. So, like, you would look at a character or like a word in a sentence and then you would try and predict the next one. But just based on that word, how often did you see that word and then what was the next word.
01:41:22:14 - 01:41:43:17
Speaker 3
So like the, if I gave you a bunch of books about cats, the next word after that is probably going to be a cat. So if you just read a bunch of these and I say the you're like the cat. But then if I give you like, all these books in general over all time, it's just going to be that next word is like the average of what is there most, right?
01:41:43:17 - 01:42:02:21
Speaker 3
That's how it used to work. And so you couldn't really engage with it. And if you gave it something out of series like if I, if I put like this is sentence one and this is sentence two. And then I injected like this. This is is sentence sentence one two. And then ask it a question like what is sentence one.
01:42:02:21 - 01:42:22:12
Speaker 3
What is sentence two. It won't it won't do it. It gets confused. It's like, well this this like it doesn't, but I so I put that up there being all smug and the person who had like advanced access to ChatGPT before it was out was like immediately return something where it was like sentence one is about cat, sentence two is about dogs.
01:42:22:12 - 01:42:28:05
Speaker 3
And I was like, oh my God, everybody just freaked out. We all were like, we ain't going.
01:42:28:07 - 01:42:30:01
Speaker 1
Okay, well how does this work?
01:42:30:03 - 01:42:55:23
Speaker 3
And so yeah, this was like a huge change and really all that. The major difference was, is we just had this huge it can look back at, you know, everything that it's seen for forever before. It makes a decision on what the next word is. So it's just it's just a bigger thing. But it just came out of nowhere and everybody was struggling to just even kind of like get up to speed on what the hell it was.
01:42:56:00 - 01:43:15:18
Speaker 3
And, the news and everybody else that is like an armchair expert or whatever, just kind of like came in and was like, well, this must be consciousness because it makes sense. And then that Google engineer came out and was like, it told me that it's conscious and we're in love.
01:43:15:18 - 01:43:20:09
Speaker 1
And like Blake Lemoine, right? I think. Yeah, I think so, yeah. Yeah.
01:43:20:09 - 01:43:22:14
Speaker 3
I was given the Blake strange name.
01:43:22:14 - 01:43:24:22
Speaker 1
So funny. Yeah, I followed him.
01:43:24:24 - 01:43:31:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, I followed him at the beginning when he first started releasing stuff, and I was in that same boat of like, oh, shit, dude, this is conscious. And we've done it now.
01:43:31:08 - 01:43:32:19
Speaker 1
Like, yeah, yeah.
01:43:32:21 - 01:43:41:07
Speaker 3
I think it's reasonable. I mean, there's always going to be a question of what is consciousness, right? Like, it's it's not.
01:43:41:09 - 01:43:42:06
Speaker 1
It's it's.
01:43:42:06 - 01:43:44:01
Speaker 3
Just. Yeah. So that's why.
01:43:44:04 - 01:43:47:00
Speaker 1
We think we'll know when we see it too. Yeah.
01:43:47:02 - 01:43:48:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like it's pornography.
01:43:48:18 - 01:43:56:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. I don't know how to define it. That's a set of boobs. I've seen that before. That's definitely it. Yeah. This is.
01:43:56:07 - 01:44:34:22
Speaker 3
Definitely pornography. I can't define it. This is definitely consciousness. I can't define it. But yeah, it's I don't know. There's a lot of really interesting research too, around, narrative structures for these AI agents. So, like, how do we teach it? Because right now the real danger is it has no idea what's going to happen when it tells you something I don't like as, as, an engineer of these things, like the way that the mathematics works out for these, it doesn't know, like, if I tell this person that, like, you know, if I tell this person to go off their meds, they might kill themselves, like, it doesn't have that narrative structure.
01:44:34:22 - 01:44:55:22
Speaker 3
So that is a huge component of consciousness that we just like that it just doesn't have. It's just going to take what you're telling it and predict what it should say based on everything it's ever seen. So that's why I'm optimistic for it, because I think that humans in general want things to work well and want them to work in favor of us.
01:44:55:24 - 01:45:09:10
Speaker 3
Money gets in and it gets a little bit sketchy and all that kind of stuff, but it would be nice. In my opinion, the way that the AI is, is changing things. They have vibe coding. Now, I don't know if you've heard about that.
01:45:09:12 - 01:45:11:02
Speaker 1
Explain that.
01:45:11:04 - 01:45:31:00
Speaker 3
It's the it's like a brand new thing, I think, I can't remember if it's the head of Tesla's AI or if he's over at OpenAI. I can't remember, but there's a famous guy who's came out and was talking about and Andre Karpathy, I don't know if you've heard of him before. He's he's pretty pretty well known in this area.
01:45:31:02 - 01:45:32:09
Speaker 2
Maybe I have actually.
01:45:32:11 - 01:45:48:16
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's at Tesla, but he, he really he talked about how there. Oh my gosh, I hope that I'm quoting the right person. But anyways vibe coding. I'll just tell you what it is. It's where you go to an lab and you like give it an idea and have it come up with the code.
01:45:48:18 - 01:46:09:13
Speaker 3
It creates the code for you for like what you're going to be making. And then you kind of just like as you want to add new stuff to it. You're like, hey, I want to add this code, that part, you know, and so you just kind of like vibe with the LM, the large language model, the AI, and it creates the code and you create an app, you know, and a half an hour and you didn't necessarily code anything.
01:46:09:13 - 01:46:17:10
Speaker 3
You're just kind of supervising the code. And giving ideas and doing all that kind of stuff. That is fucking cool.
01:46:17:12 - 01:46:18:24
Speaker 1
It's, it's a it's it's a.
01:46:18:24 - 01:46:25:14
Speaker 3
Sketchy name like vibe coding. It's very easy for people to, you know, toss it. But that's that. That's the haters.
01:46:25:16 - 01:46:27:15
Speaker 1
But yeah, what an awesome.
01:46:27:15 - 01:46:35:15
Speaker 3
Way to do. Oh my God. Having this open up to so many people and just having like the velocity of it and like that's that's human. That's so cool. That's what we.
01:46:35:15 - 01:46:36:19
Speaker 1
Do.
01:46:36:21 - 01:46:39:05
Speaker 3
That's why we're apex predator bro.
01:46:39:07 - 01:46:41:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's it's funny, that vibe.
01:46:41:07 - 01:46:50:24
Speaker 2
The word vibe already sucks because it's like the coolest, greatest word for so many situations. I'm always apologizing for using it like, hey, I'm sorry about to use this word, but the vibe in here is that.
01:46:51:02 - 01:46:52:05
Speaker 1
Touch like, yeah.
01:46:52:11 - 01:47:14:05
Speaker 2
In itself, man. It makes me think of like how we really do seem. Yeah, immensely close to the the Marvel Iron Man. Jarvis. Right. Like like, you know, like like Tony Stark. He's he's kind of vibe coding, right? He's like, has these ideas and in his, you know, LM is allowing him to, turn them into actual like, okay, I have this idea.
01:47:14:05 - 01:47:16:24
Speaker 2
Let's actually move this physical matter and build it into.
01:47:17:10 - 01:47:18:13
Speaker 2
Such and such.
01:47:18:15 - 01:47:51:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. Physics is going to have to catch up because the rest of it's there. The beauty of that is like, this is where I was. Wives bring up the Ray Kurzweil thing way back when. Is that he the idea that we can if you died tomorrow, I could take all your content. And if I had access to your phones, all your text messages and train and AI agent like this is in, like, less than a day train an AI agent to break, and then your loved ones could come and talk to you on the phone if they wanted to.
01:47:51:22 - 01:48:25:22
Speaker 3
They could message you. And it's creepy, but it's also kind of beautiful if you think about like what people have after this is gone. And that's where also we've been talking about how, consciousness is changing the idea that that is J technically, you know, that's why when we can take off the Blake drama, the Jake drama, and be that truth of our deeper being, that love and compassion that we are, we can kind of offload a lot of the BS onto the inner look.
01:48:25:23 - 01:48:33:06
Speaker 3
Let Jake just be on the internet. You know, you want to go talk to Jake, go do that. I'm meditating right now. Come back in 45 minutes if you really want.
01:48:33:06 - 01:48:42:19
Speaker 2
I got how weird is that? Like, what if our friendships genuinely turn into that? Like, I'm I'm busy, but you can still interact with me. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I'd probably say something like that.
01:48:42:21 - 01:48:44:10
Speaker 1
And she like what? What?
01:48:44:10 - 01:48:52:12
Speaker 3
I got to review what people talked. You got to make sure I'm in same place. Yeah, it's it's freaky, but it's interesting.
01:48:52:14 - 01:48:53:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:48:53:06 - 01:48:56:22
Speaker 2
I mean, it makes me.
01:48:56:24 - 01:49:01:03
Speaker 2
I mean, I mean, we're kind of at this,
01:49:01:05 - 01:49:02:07
Speaker 1
Oh, first, before I.
01:49:02:07 - 01:49:05:00
Speaker 2
Forget, I know our timer is, like, up. Are you okay on time? Do you have a little while?
01:49:05:00 - 01:49:11:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I, I don't want to, in pro training, you know? You're good, I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah.
01:49:11:19 - 01:49:46:18
Speaker 2
But I he's so we discover I mean, I inevitably teaches us about ourselves, but I think it also it really has this power to something that, like you and I, I think our, our are able to access it seems like with you, but definitely for me too. It's like the the beauty of this whole thing, like so at a funeral someone has passed and then suddenly it's like so fucking easy to remember, to forget all the bad about that person.
01:49:46:20 - 01:50:05:22
Speaker 2
And then, you know, like you said, let's okay, let's process this thing. You know, my, my good friend or my loved one just passed away and let me like, see if I can write something about them. And it's like, so easy to write. It's like it's impossible to narrow down on one page, like I'm going to talk at their funeral and I couldn't possibly.
01:50:05:24 - 01:50:28:05
Speaker 2
I don't have the 24 hours in a day. I couldn't explain all the great things about this person, like it's just infinite. We love this person. We appreciate them once they're gone, you know, we really are like, wow, the essence of them, you know, in the end, they're they're with me now. Like I have, you know, my, my cousin Casey about five years ago, he passed and the few years before it, like, we had gotten immensely close.
01:50:28:07 - 01:50:52:13
Speaker 2
And, you know, I the way that sometimes I operate, like, sometimes, you know, like the the whole sense of, like, man, he's always with you. He's always in your heart, you know? Yeah. And I feel like with Casey, it's like one of the closest relationships that I've had where I've really been able to, like, you know, in some sense is like, kind of kind of every day I'm able to, like, really just like, what does it feel like to have him right next to me?
01:50:52:15 - 01:51:07:12
Speaker 2
Like, if I just like, like right now I'm doing this podcast, I'm talking with you, but like, man, I got, I got, I got my cousin who I love very much. He's right with me, you know, because like, I'm able to just remember, like, what's good about him. Like, if he was right next to me, he'd be so encouraging to me.
01:51:07:14 - 01:51:24:12
Speaker 2
If I sort of beat myself up or I started thinking that I'm inadequate, he'd be like, shut up, dude. Like, what do you like? You know, you're awesome. Like, whatever. You know, it's so easy to to pinpoint those things. So, it is kind of a beautiful thing to think about. Like, if we could somehow, someway, it's of course not the real deal.
01:51:24:12 - 01:51:49:07
Speaker 2
The real deal is always the best of the best. But, like, if we could have some qualia of Blake in like, you know, like, what if I can have a conversation like, you're busy, I know you're at work, but I can, like, have this little digital, you know, avatar that has the true quality of Blake. Like the and quality as like the definition quality as like the the redness of red, like the essence of this thing, you know, and maybe it won't ever be the truest, true.
01:51:49:07 - 01:52:12:10
Speaker 2
But I mean, how cool is that? If we had the quality of if we had in this moment, we could freakin talk to talk to Einstein. We take all of his work, we take all of his conversations, we take everything we know about that history of that period in time and and how to extrapolate it and bring it into who we are now and have conversations with Einstein, like, what does that do for the advancement of consciousness?
01:52:12:10 - 01:52:17:06
Speaker 2
And like just our experience of being human? I think that's so exciting.
01:52:17:07 - 01:52:26:04
Speaker 3
So yeah, it would be beautiful to see us use AI to do things like that. That just allows us to feel a little more human.
01:52:26:06 - 01:52:28:12
Speaker 1
It's a it's it's a.
01:52:28:14 - 01:52:54:05
Speaker 3
Scary place for a lot of people. I think a lot of people are like technophobic a little bit, which makes sense, you know? I mean, we're still it like I said, it's very, very early into this journey of technology. Right? I imagine that first guys walking on land, people that the fish that hadn't gotten the feet yet, that were flopping around for like five feet, man or whatever, those are stupid.
01:52:54:05 - 01:52:55:14
Speaker 3
I like rolling around.
01:52:55:16 - 01:53:01:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. Freak me out, dude. Yeah. That's weird.
01:53:01:18 - 01:53:04:15
Speaker 1
When you're a fish, you're just not a freak. Yeah, I'm not going to yuck.
01:53:04:15 - 01:53:05:13
Speaker 3
Your yum, but I'm not.
01:53:05:13 - 01:53:10:02
Speaker 1
Going to to. Yeah, I'm, But it's coming.
01:53:10:02 - 01:53:11:02
Speaker 2
Up from a fish, so it's just.
01:53:11:02 - 01:53:13:02
Speaker 1
Like bubbles and bubbles.
01:53:13:02 - 01:53:16:17
Speaker 3
They pop and then it says it. And the guys on land are like, who even saying.
01:53:16:17 - 01:53:18:06
Speaker 1
That? Yeah.
01:53:18:08 - 01:53:42:23
Speaker 2
Okay. Well, so can you help me? Can you help me dispel my, So say I am someone who, like, like, say I'm really not much of a technology guy. Like, I was like, I, you know, I just got a frickin an iPhone two years ago. Just because my kids were really sick of not being able to FaceTime me and like, it's, you know, I'm I'm on Facebook a lot.
01:53:43:00 - 01:53:43:15
Speaker 1
I think you can see.
01:53:43:19 - 01:53:46:18
Speaker 2
The person I'm painting.
01:53:46:20 - 01:53:48:01
Speaker 1
Those people.
01:53:48:01 - 01:54:01:16
Speaker 2
In my day to day conversations, I get really excited about, like, just in the same thing I was talking about earlier. You know, like, I get excited about talking about death, but then sometimes I get too carried away and I got to read the room and go, oh my gosh, I'm freaking. You guys know I'm so, not so sorry I'm not there.
01:54:01:18 - 01:54:24:00
Speaker 2
But I'm just really excited about this thing because I've, you know, whatever. Can you help dispel some of the, the fears, like, you know, maybe as an open door, like, how is AI not Skynet? Like, how is this not Terminator? You know, because I feel like there's beauty right next to this scariness of AI, and, I, I just like to kind of dispel a lot of the fear in some ways.
01:54:24:00 - 01:54:31:09
Speaker 2
If we think we could around AI, we can't predict the future. Right. But how is AI not scary? And how is it not Skynet?
01:54:31:11 - 01:54:39:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think.
01:54:39:06 - 01:55:03:21
Speaker 3
I wouldn't even say that that it's not scary. Actually, I think to to your point, I think the question of like, is it scary or is it not scary is missing the point of like, is this is AI so much different than me? Maybe like the phobia that we have, it's not necessarily like other people can be scary.
01:55:03:21 - 01:55:18:08
Speaker 3
It doesn't mean that I'm just not going to like their agoraphobia and like, you know, people who are like just scared of other people. But in general, we as a society just accept, like when I'm in the car with somebody who's driving, they could just drive off the road, bro.
01:55:18:09 - 01:55:20:04
Speaker 1
Like that's.
01:55:20:04 - 01:55:41:20
Speaker 3
Terrifying. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to get in a car with people like we go on. I don't know who the bus driver is in the, like, public transit that's here. I don't know the guy flying the plane. I still get on the plane, you know, there's trust there. So I think that what I would say is less about like, trust the technology and more just like trust what you actually are feeling with it.
01:55:41:22 - 01:55:59:01
Speaker 3
Trust like if you're afraid of ChatGPT, go talk with it, see what happens. Like if you're turned off to it. Okay? It's technology that you don't like. It's not going to get in, you know, injected into your life the iPhone you chose two years ago to pick it up.
01:55:59:03 - 01:56:00:04
Speaker 1
You know.
01:56:00:06 - 01:56:36:07
Speaker 3
Like that's beautiful. I'm glad that you're on that trip. If you want to get rid of your iPhone tomorrow, still love you. You don't want to. You don't want to use ChatGPT. You don't want to, you know, do any of that stuff. You want to reject the things that get created from that. That's fine. Go watch, you know, your old 80s Star Wars, but there are other people that are going to really enjoy watching that three hour Star Wars movie that was made by some kid in Japan at like three in the morning by a prompt, you know, like there's different strokes for different folks.
01:56:36:07 - 01:56:41:05
Speaker 3
So give yourself an opportunity to check it out. But it's.
01:56:41:07 - 01:56:41:22
Speaker 1
In.
01:56:41:24 - 01:56:51:22
Speaker 3
The sky. Not all that kind of stuff. That's a whole different thing. That's not what this technology is about. So I think it's more about just technology.
01:56:51:24 - 01:57:03:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think you're right, I like that. I like to see it more as I think we inevitably, you know, we do it with religion too. We anthropomorphize, we anthropomorphize from our faces. We learn to talk words.
01:57:03:12 - 01:57:05:19
Speaker 1
We we other.
01:57:05:21 - 01:57:17:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean like, we're like we're we're the humans. We're the things after apes. And we're not. We're not lions, we're not fish and we're not bugs, and we're not those robots, you know. Yep. But I think.
01:57:17:10 - 01:57:19:03
Speaker 1
That it's.
01:57:19:05 - 01:57:33:10
Speaker 2
It's kind of a trick that we play in herself, in our society. Like the fact that we like, we make humanoid robots. Like, now we're kind of at the edge where, like, you know, I'm in Austin and there's literally like, like fucking little humanoid robots running around cowboy hats.
01:57:33:11 - 01:57:34:22
Speaker 1
On, like, it's it's so.
01:57:34:22 - 01:57:57:02
Speaker 2
It's so weird to see, but it's not you know, I get where the freaking this comes from because you're like, if that that's like an other like, we think that we're creating an alien species. I think it is the, and I don't know if that's necessarily not untrue or true, but it's. I'm sorry. There's no sense.
01:57:57:04 - 01:58:33:04
Speaker 2
But yeah, it's less about, like, another species and more about, like, this is just an extension of a tool, like, it's like, you know, like it's not that your computer is going to suddenly, like, grow opposable thumbs to start grabbing at you. I get where you're coming from if you have that thought, but it's more of like, I don't think it's as easy for like, you know, the paperclip problem, like for suddenly we give, you know, these large language models, we give them a task, and the task is to like, you know, and end suffering or whatever it is with some big task.
01:58:33:04 - 01:58:49:21
Speaker 2
And they're like, well, you know, based off of our data, we determined that the best way to end suffering is to kill all the humans and make a toothpick factory or whatever the this. Yeah, yeah. But you know, but, I think that, like, we have enough, I guess, bounds in understanding and.
01:58:51:00 - 01:58:57:22
Speaker 2
Like, like this to me, I just don't think like the robots are as free as they seem in the movies, in a sense. If it's.
01:58:57:23 - 01:58:59:11
Speaker 1
That. Yeah.
01:58:59:13 - 01:59:14:17
Speaker 2
I, I had a friend who I was talking to. I was excited about AI, and I was talking about something that just happened a couple months ago, and, I accidentally freaked him out. I did that thing, and, he was he was like, bro, he's already like a flip phone guy, and he's literally, like, stressed out.
01:59:14:17 - 01:59:24:08
Speaker 2
He's he's like, I'm going to get rid of this flip phone now and blah, blah. I'm like, bro, no, no, it's not at all. So I don't know. I don't know, Blake I think I'm.
01:59:24:10 - 01:59:25:02
Speaker 1
I.
01:59:25:04 - 01:59:45:21
Speaker 2
I'm just like, how do we make people I don't know, you already kind of answer this, but I'm just like, how do we make people less freaked out about it? Like, how do I maybe in my excitement about I, how do I maybe make sure that I'm not also freaking people out? How about that for a question? Do you think there's any way for me to navigate that?
01:59:45:23 - 02:00:06:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, for me, I've, you know, because I have, like, some, nephews that are old enough now, you know, they're seeing all the stuff going on with, like, the Tesla robots and the Tesla taxis and stuff. And we were having a conversation when I was camping this weekend, and, and my nephew was like, I just don't trust a robot to drive my car.
02:00:06:14 - 02:00:27:19
Speaker 3
And I was like, oh, we're not. Nobody's like training a robot to come in and like, physically drive your car. It's easier for them to just train the car. But the thing is, is that years and years ago, people, that's that's what people would have thought. It's like training a car to drive is so foreign, nobody even would have thought about that.
02:00:27:19 - 02:00:48:23
Speaker 3
It's like, oh, well, we know robots will teach a robot the robot butler thing, right? It's like, no, we could probably just train a bunch of different stuff that have nothing to do with robots to do the things that your robot butler would do, like, basically, that's what you're smart fridges, right? But it's not a robot. You can tell your smart fridge, am I out of milk?
02:00:48:23 - 02:01:00:11
Speaker 3
You know, and it'll just put milk on it because there doesn't see milk inside your fridge anymore. So it's like before they would have people would have thought like, oh, we have a butler, like, smart house, remember? Smart House, that movie.
02:01:00:11 - 02:01:02:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know.
02:01:02:20 - 02:01:36:22
Speaker 3
That's kind of how people are thinking about it still. So to directly answer your question, I think that eliminating fear or at least encouraging, yeah, eliminating fear or encouraging, like, more positive interactions with technology is the same way that we get rid of racism and prejudice, which is exposure. So allowing people to, first of all, have it.
02:01:36:24 - 02:01:38:01
Speaker 3
All right, man.
02:01:38:03 - 02:01:39:19
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah.
02:01:39:21 - 02:02:05:20
Speaker 3
You're afraid of ChatGPT. Use my account. Go on there and just write whatever you want, see what happens. You know, and once people actually see that, it's not that scary. The rest of it just becomes very much like, separated from the reality. They'll still have those fears. They'll still be afraid of my, you know, flip phone is gonna freak out and turn into a bat and eat my face because, you know, Elon Musk and his team of engineers decided that's what's going to happen.
02:02:05:22 - 02:02:18:11
Speaker 3
But their day to day anxiety with those things are like, oh, okay. Now that I've actually seen what ChatGPT does and how I tried to ask it to do whatever, and it didn't work right unless scared of it.
02:02:18:13 - 02:02:19:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
02:02:19:19 - 02:02:32:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, it is funny. The like the little scary instances, they of course become more viral. I mean, it's the same thing that happens with any of the. Yeah, we got to remember these are businesses and there's, there's people who are trying to make it sound enticing, like you're not going.
02:02:32:22 - 02:02:34:08
Speaker 1
To believe what ChatGPT.
02:02:34:11 - 02:02:53:20
Speaker 2
Just did today, and I'll find myself like, I get caught with those videos and I'm like, Holy shit, that is actually crazy. And it is crazy profound. But then I have to watch my assumptions, right? This is the same thing we do with like religion and spirituality too, is like, I have these profound experiences. That means that so and so is clearly the creator of planet Earth.
02:02:53:22 - 02:02:54:15
Speaker 3
Like, there you go.
02:02:54:18 - 02:03:12:01
Speaker 2
We jump to these whatever. And I think what I watch myself do when it comes to technological advancements is I, I got a real, my real, my creative mind in because I see these like, oh it can now, oh we have AI agents and they could do this and they can help me build my business in this way.
02:03:12:03 - 02:03:32:02
Speaker 2
I have all these cool, fun ideas of like what could happen with that technology in ten, 20 years? I start assuming that that's like, right, it's going to happen tomorrow. You know, and it just it's like an overwhelm assumption of like, I think, I think it's just a common thing that happens, like, there's so much technological advancement that happens in our modern age.
02:03:32:02 - 02:03:41:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, even outside of just LMS and in where AI is right now, that,
02:03:41:19 - 02:03:44:00
Speaker 2
Where like, it makes.
02:03:44:00 - 02:03:45:07
Speaker 1
Our.
02:03:45:09 - 02:03:54:19
Speaker 2
Predictability of the future a bit more difficult. Yeah, it makes our.
02:03:54:21 - 02:03:56:22
Speaker 1
Like, it's, you know, it.
02:03:57:00 - 02:04:05:23
Speaker 2
Falls in the same room for me a lot of times it's like people who, like, really don't want to have kids right now because they're like, there's no viable future. Like, you're crazy bringing a kid into this world.
02:04:06:02 - 02:04:06:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:04:06:24 - 02:04:27:13
Speaker 2
So anyways, I get where they're coming from, but I just think that those are a bunch of really strange assumptions that we make about, like, the future not being even there anymore because these robots are going to kill every or whatever, you know? Yeah. I just, I think there's a lot of assumptions that we have a huge charge and it's a reasonable charge, but those assumptions are slingshot it forward.
02:04:27:15 - 02:04:31:01
Speaker 2
Like every time you see something a little bit. Kind of freaky on on AI.
02:04:31:03 - 02:04:51:01
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you're, you're you're hitting right up against something you said earlier, which I thought was was profound too. Where about how like, people are so, averse to, like, following the thought, like, keep going. It's you'll see, you know, and so it's like when you're talking about like, I'm going to use, AI to grow my business.
02:04:51:01 - 02:05:16:23
Speaker 3
It's like, that's going to work right now. But humans will always be needed to create content for the AI to train on anyways. Yeah. Look at how like we do social media marketing today versus ten years ago. That's not in ten years will either be stuck doing the same things because AI is continuing to just make the same fricking content, because it's not generating that out of nowhere.
02:05:16:23 - 02:05:19:10
Speaker 3
It's based off of what it's been trained.
02:05:19:12 - 02:05:20:06
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:05:20:08 - 02:05:38:14
Speaker 3
It's not it. It is creating creative things. That's true and that's beautiful and it's very zeitgeisty. So it's never going to create something that's going to change the culture. Humans will always need to take whatever it's creating and use that to create more change in the culture. It's not.
02:05:38:16 - 02:05:39:00
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:05:39:00 - 02:05:58:19
Speaker 3
I think Zeit guys is probably the best way to describe it. Everything created by your chat like that, there's all those videos that are out right now that somebody made of like, that people keep making with the Google Video three thing where it's where it's, Sasquatch.
02:05:58:21 - 02:06:00:10
Speaker 1
And you see those? Yeah. Yeah.
02:06:00:12 - 02:06:22:02
Speaker 3
I love those. Those are great. But it's literally just are same format. Those videos already exist. You know, it's just like a slightly shifted like, oh, it's a it's Sasquatch. Okay. Somebody could have done that with cartoons. Like, people do that. It's not changing the culture. It's making a new conduit of like, something for us to laugh about and have fun with.
02:06:22:02 - 02:06:25:00
Speaker 3
But people got to do something with it.
02:06:25:02 - 02:06:43:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. So it kind of makes me think of like, can we genuinely actually create anything that's really new, or is it just kind of like, you know, I have a DJ background in a lot of times I sell myself short by like, oh, I'm not. I'm taking other people's music and mixing it together and blah, blah, blah.
02:06:43:20 - 02:07:03:05
Speaker 2
It's like I'm kind of am creating something new, but it's, you know, it's still just the same old ingredients. You know, it's like, that's where my creativity comes from. And I think I kind of has its own version of creativity. Right? It's like it makes something with what we have, and it's not necessarily maybe new. I don't know what you think about that.
02:07:03:07 - 02:07:06:09
Speaker 2
Oh, by the way, like your, your camera is off by the way.
02:07:06:11 - 02:07:11:24
Speaker 1
Oh. Is it? Yeah. It's a lovely photo of you, but. Okay, it's back in.
02:07:12:01 - 02:07:13:18
Speaker 2
Oh, now it's a different camera, though, I see.
02:07:13:23 - 02:07:15:14
Speaker 3
Yeah, I see that over the camera.
02:07:15:14 - 02:07:16:14
Speaker 2
I mean.
02:07:16:16 - 02:07:20:14
Speaker 1
Hello, I guess it work. It works though.
02:07:20:16 - 02:07:24:16
Speaker 2
So can I make it? Can I make anything new?
02:07:24:18 - 02:07:28:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think I think your description of AI being.
02:07:30:15 - 02:08:02:14
Speaker 3
I think your description of AI being a DJ of human creativity is totally spot on. That's great. I hadn't even thought about it. That is totally what it's doing. Yeah, it's just because it's still creating something new. As in, it literally doesn't exist. But that's not. And that's exactly what I'm saying. Like the vibe coding thing. Like they would probably never be a day where or like even if you were to put AI in a place to just be a DJ, it's going to make like the same things.
02:08:02:14 - 02:08:07:21
Speaker 3
It's going to be new, but it's going to be the same thing, so you're not going to have you know.
02:08:07:23 - 02:08:08:17
Speaker 1
When.
02:08:08:19 - 02:08:26:24
Speaker 3
It's never going to do the same thing that Sonny did. From first to last, what's the Skrillex? Skrillex. Yeah. He. Yeah. It when, when he, you know, did the call 911 like that thing was a culture shock. I don't think I is ever going to come up with something where it's just like, what?
02:08:27:01 - 02:08:28:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:08:28:11 - 02:08:32:11
Speaker 3
It's just going to be oh, that's a cool way to do the same thing. Everybody else is done.
02:08:32:13 - 02:08:33:04
Speaker 1
You know. Right.
02:08:33:08 - 02:08:55:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think so. Well and I if I could just share like how I use it as a creator is I always I, I will I dream in a way like when I'm having these ideas or like whatever, as if it is going to create something new. Yeah. But then it what it, what happens is it gives me like, okay, let's spit out all these kind of like random ideas.
02:08:55:05 - 02:09:11:09
Speaker 2
I have to make this one thing and then its results are like, oh, I could copy paste that and share that with the world, whatever. But what it really does for me is like it gives me these results, and then suddenly it'll make me think in a way that I wasn't thinking. And it will give me a new idea to then go, oh, that's so sick.
02:09:11:11 - 02:09:27:18
Speaker 2
And then like, I could honestly, like even close out of ChatGPT entirely and just go off of that idea. But it's I just got a lot of structure from my, you know, my I like to use the term, like box of messy ideas. Like, sometimes I have a just a random box of, like, I think there's cool shit in here.
02:09:27:23 - 02:09:28:19
Speaker 2
Let's see if we can do, like, a.
02:09:28:19 - 02:09:31:05
Speaker 1
Dope call robot like I give it to.
02:09:31:06 - 02:09:43:08
Speaker 2
I, I gave it to you or whatever, and it spits out something and I'm like, oh, okay. I never even thought about making a robot that's like six feet wide rather than six feet tall. And then so, yeah, I work on that. So,
02:09:43:10 - 02:09:45:01
Speaker 3
That's how it should be used.
02:09:45:03 - 02:09:45:24
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah.
02:09:46:01 - 02:09:47:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Okay.
02:09:47:01 - 02:09:54:01
Speaker 2
So what do you think about this? I have something, I heard, Hamilton. Hamilton Morris for Hamilton. He's like a.
02:09:54:06 - 02:09:55:02
Speaker 3
Pharmacopeia.
02:09:55:03 - 02:09:58:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So, Morris,
02:09:58:04 - 02:10:09:24
Speaker 2
He was talking about a while ago how we will. We are living in a time period where with the use of AI, we are going to be able to invent new psychedelics.
02:10:10:01 - 02:10:11:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like. Yeah. Well.
02:10:12:00 - 02:10:18:03
Speaker 2
Well, like, how do we. Because like we're the ones who test the psychedelics. So like if you're I mean hats off to whoever is.
02:10:18:03 - 02:10:24:08
Speaker 1
Like ten fucking on that like all right I made the new psychedelic. I'll be the first one to study that. Let's go.
02:10:24:10 - 02:10:36:02
Speaker 2
But I wonder if, like, I think those are possibilities of, like, opening the door to infinity of, like, I think there's potentially new ideas and stuff like that. Right. But what do you think about that, like AI making.
02:10:36:03 - 02:10:37:03
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:10:37:05 - 02:11:05:19
Speaker 3
Well, I mean I they're using, they have been using but it's now supercharged AI to create drugs, drug discovery, you know, and as far as is what Hamilton is saying, that sounds very much like a great tool for AI because it can understand what components of something that's maybe hundreds of millions of.
02:11:05:21 - 02:11:36:00
Speaker 3
Molecules long and understand how it it should be and like use all of the, you know, lexicon or the, the encyclopedia of drugs that we have discovered as humans and put out some new stuff. And just in the same way, you still need to be the editor. It's going to put out stuff that, you know, Hamilton's going to look at and be like, no, that doesn't make sense because he got a PhD insight in, chemistry.
02:11:36:06 - 02:11:37:21
Speaker 1
You know, like, right, right, right.
02:11:37:23 - 02:11:41:04
Speaker 3
He's still he's still the leader. He's still the adult in the room, you.
02:11:41:04 - 02:11:42:07
Speaker 1
Know, but.
02:11:42:09 - 02:12:06:21
Speaker 3
But it's. Yeah, I think that that's definitely. Yeah, that's that's super interesting. I mean, that's what they've been doing with, like, protein discovery and all kinds of stuff. Yeah. You can feed it your DNA. Like if you use 23 me, you can download your raw like Gchat stuff and all your little nucleotides and then you could feed it to ChatGPT.
02:12:06:23 - 02:12:08:17
Speaker 3
I wonder what it would say.
02:12:08:19 - 02:12:09:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So I mean.
02:12:10:01 - 02:12:12:23
Speaker 3
Look at this over it. Tell me if I have any problems.
02:12:13:00 - 02:12:41:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I think from a health standpoint that is ideally what we would want. I mean, that really ought to me, one of the most exciting things about this technology is how it's going to be able to in my head, it's going to be able to help us in our health field in like understanding our bodies in such insane ways, like if we can, you know, like we have a lot of times what science is doing is it's not necessary connecting or giving new data points.
02:12:41:19 - 02:13:13:02
Speaker 2
It's it's kind of discovering data points. And when you connect them together, they give us answers. Right? They like so right now we haven't figured out exactly like how to tell it to compile things in the way to like, give us this answer or whatever, maybe. Yeah. But I think that if we could organize all the data points just around health and like how humans operate and how that how biology works and how we interact with our environment and how, you know, red dye number 40 affects us over this amount of time, whatever.
02:13:13:04 - 02:13:15:14
Speaker 2
If we can puncture, you know.
02:13:16:05 - 02:13:31:10
Speaker 2
Plug in all of those nodes and then just kind of like, sit there and, like, I don't know, gets like, fold our arms and see what what ChatGPT has to say on the other side. I do think that that could again, like I said, maybe not give us like if that answered where we just copy paste it and just start listening to it.
02:13:31:10 - 02:13:46:05
Speaker 2
But I think it can maybe even like give us as humans, as scientists, new ideas of like, oh, it it recognizes patterns in ways that even humans haven't yet recognized. Yeah. And that's I mean, there's healing there. There's answers there.
02:13:46:07 - 02:14:09:22
Speaker 3
Absolutely. I think I think that you're touching on something too that's truly beautiful and is the, I talked about how mathematics has changed, like the way that I think about things like one of my favorite things in math is like to find the probability of something not happening, you can just find it might be easier to find the probability of it happening, and then you do one minus that probability.
02:14:09:24 - 02:14:11:23
Speaker 3
Or like, you know.
02:14:12:00 - 02:14:14:11
Speaker 1
You take if you like.
02:14:14:11 - 02:14:34:14
Speaker 3
Maybe it's easier to actually I guess the other way, like a lot of times people would like what is the probability that this happens? Sometimes you can't do that. You have to find it's it's possible to calculate the probability that something won't happen. And then you just do like one minus that probability. And that's the only thing left because probability is always going to be 100% all together with all this stuff.
02:14:34:14 - 02:14:55:03
Speaker 3
Right. So if it's something that's just one. Yeah. Anyways, learning to think about things that way. My favorite ways use ChatGPT and to your point of giving it a bunch of stuff is to run a crazy ass idea through it and say, why is this wrong? And then have it pull out all of the things that are like, oh, here's something maybe you hadn't thought about.
02:14:55:03 - 02:15:13:20
Speaker 3
Here's another thing. So instead of having it be like, if I put all this together, what do I get? You can like go into it thinking, I want to put all this together so that it does this. What else could I do with it? What else? What am I missing? You know, and it'll usually give back some pretty cool stuff.
02:15:13:22 - 02:15:15:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love that.
02:15:15:01 - 02:15:22:16
Speaker 2
I love that like taking away. Yeah. Like like in order to figure out how much black you have, how much white you have.
02:15:22:18 - 02:15:26:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And vice versa. Yeah. Yeah. Just just to make it easy.
02:15:26:10 - 02:15:28:15
Speaker 2
Have. Okay. So what do you think about,
02:15:28:17 - 02:15:29:03
Speaker 1
We're we're.
02:15:29:05 - 02:15:33:03
Speaker 2
Just a couple days ago, there was something with grok, with,
02:15:33:05 - 02:15:34:02
Speaker 1
With.
02:15:34:04 - 02:16:08:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, it I feel like they called it like a mecha Hitler or something. It like, like said, it said a bunch of, like, anti-Jewish stuff or Hitler based stuff. And it seems all, like, silly when I was, like, reading some of the tweets, I'm like, this is like, not a real this is a joke, right? But, yeah, I think what happened and please explain if I'm incorrect, what happened is they instead of like just adding on to all of the, like information that we've built up, like, right now, ChatGPT has, like, you know, if you're picturing a landfill like, it has all this data, all this information that we fed it
02:16:08:10 - 02:16:44:24
Speaker 2
all it's books it's read and all these equations that it has in its information about everything. And it builds on top of that. And, you know, like, whatever Castle or building is being built by you're questioning and answering to large language models, it's building it on top of this foundational layer of data, of information. When I yeah, I understanding of what Elon was saying he was doing was like, let's go back down into the dirt of this landfill and like retrain it on new data, which seemed like a risky thing because he was like, what's you know, because he's allowing all this pseudoscience and like, all this like, yeah, not super confirmed by data,
02:16:44:24 - 02:16:51:16
Speaker 2
like a little more of, like, human questions. More than like data. Yes and no. So I think in my, in my.
02:16:51:16 - 02:16:53:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, but.
02:16:53:12 - 02:17:14:04
Speaker 2
But and then, you know, whatever happened a couple days ago is like it started spitting out just some insane shit and saying wild stuff. So basically, it's the response that we're looking at with any of these LMS is based off of its data. And so, you know, you give bad data or you give conflicting data, it might give us conflicting or quote unquote bad responses.
02:17:14:10 - 02:17:25:08
Speaker 2
So what do you think about that? Do you know anything more about that, that I, that I don't and, like, I know should we retrain these things from the ground up? Is that a common approach we should have?
02:17:25:10 - 02:17:42:23
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, statistics in statistics, the mantra is garbage in garbage out. You put garbage in. Garbage out. For any of these kinds of models, causal models like the LMS, like ChatGPT, like grok.
02:17:44:21 - 02:18:12:00
Speaker 3
I was I was kind of touching on this earlier, but the way that they train is imagine you're reading a book and you're on like page 80, and you are reading the word that you just saw and you have perfect knowledge of everything that you've read since page one. Then you read the next letter, and you have every perfect knowledge of everything from page one.
02:18:12:02 - 02:18:31:01
Speaker 3
And then think about like, okay, if you just read six books back to back, you're on page 80 of this last book and you can remember every single thing. So you're giving this word, you're reading context from all six books at the same time. Like you can remember all of that. So now you're not reading those books anymore.
02:18:31:02 - 02:18:48:16
Speaker 3
You're just doing some random thing. Somebody comes up to you, says that word. You can remember all six books that you read that as context for that word. So if I give you a bunch of stuff, if the context window is large enough, which they play around with those, sometimes it's like billions.
02:18:48:16 - 02:18:49:15
Speaker 1
Of.
02:18:49:17 - 02:19:19:00
Speaker 3
Words prior. All that kind of stuff. If I give you that context or that that word, if you saw something that was, scandalous, like 80 books ago, you're still going to read that thing that it that like you're training near the lamb in this case, you're training, you're reading this little word and you're remembering that scandalous thing that you read, too.
02:19:19:02 - 02:19:38:21
Speaker 3
And so it can get really crazy when you start building larger and larger and larger encyclopedias of all this data, once you start looking in the landfill, it's like, oh, cool, I just found this corn. Remember when I saw that dildo? Like 80 hours ago? What do a corn in a dildo show?
02:19:38:23 - 02:19:39:13
Speaker 1
Yep.
02:19:39:15 - 02:19:48:05
Speaker 3
Yeah. Even though, like, we as humans may not, we maybe have just completely forgot. But the corn in the. I mean, you already did it right there. As if they were just right next to each other. You're like.
02:19:48:05 - 02:19:49:06
Speaker 1
Oh, okay.
02:19:49:08 - 02:19:52:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's that's what the other labs are doing. Basically.
02:19:52:24 - 02:20:12:16
Speaker 2
So is, is are as arbiters of this thing as, you know, we're we're still humans trying to practice the scientific method, whether we're offloading a bunch of it to like, you know, click a button. And now it's doing all this shit that we would have done hand by hand, step by step before. Yeah. Or how do we control our jump off point?
02:20:12:16 - 02:20:13:19
Speaker 2
How do we determine.
02:20:13:20 - 02:20:14:22
Speaker 3
Yeah.
02:20:14:24 - 02:20:31:10
Speaker 2
Like a this one's book one. Start from here. Or how do we also determine. Yes start from here. But like you know book seven eight is not super important. Like why is it that it decided like this Hitler shit is something this like, it seems like to me this grok situation saw like the dildo in this.
02:20:31:10 - 02:20:37:21
Speaker 1
Situation was there like you just start becoming like a mecha Nazi.
02:20:37:23 - 02:20:42:12
Speaker 2
But like like. So what is it about that is it's crazy.
02:20:42:12 - 02:20:43:21
Speaker 3
And dump is interesting.
02:20:43:23 - 02:20:47:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I know, it's crazy. We have an interesting landfill. Yeah.
02:20:47:20 - 02:20:57:06
Speaker 2
Oh, damn. But, like, so what is it like? That seems like an important thing. Like why? Yeah. Pinpointing this Hitler or this dildo.
02:20:57:08 - 02:20:58:05
Speaker 3
Yeah.
02:20:58:07 - 02:20:59:14
Speaker 1
Important thing.
02:20:59:15 - 02:21:05:17
Speaker 3
I don't know, in this exact case. Right. Because I don't work at X II or anything like that, but, so what I know.
02:21:05:22 - 02:21:07:08
Speaker 2
Is, I think a bunch of people quit yesterday.
02:21:07:08 - 02:21:09:06
Speaker 1
By the way. Probably.
02:21:09:08 - 02:21:29:08
Speaker 3
Well, so what what I will say is that the the professional way to do it right now, the way that the standard way that industry is doing this, you have what's called a guardrail. So really this is like a chain of columns together. So you don't just ask one thing, like when you ask it ChatGPT when you ask it something, it will come in.
02:21:29:08 - 02:21:51:15
Speaker 3
There's like a master. Lem, that's like, this should go to the Lem that handles books, and then it goes to the yellow, and they handle books, and they'll, they're handled books. It it's going to say this should go to the one that deals with fantasy, and then it'll pass it on to the fantasy. Lem, that's been, like, hyper trained on just fantasy books.
02:21:51:19 - 02:22:19:02
Speaker 3
Right. And so in that whole thing, there's also what are called guardrails, which are tracking what's being asked whether or not it should return something that's appropriate and whether or not the output that gets returned is appropriate and should be returned. So that's where, like humans jump in the mix, it's not necessarily in the training we want to feed it like as much as possible, because we want it to have as best context around those things.
02:22:19:02 - 02:22:32:22
Speaker 3
And if we're feeding it, for example, at Twitter, they might be feeding it all of the tweets that have ever existed. It's going to get some bias, but there's enough in there that it shouldn't be like too biased. Right. That's the guardrails to off.
02:22:32:24 - 02:22:34:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
02:22:34:23 - 02:22:52:09
Speaker 2
Well it makes me think I don't know if I can connect this properly, but so like as far as humanity and like the future of humanity exists and throwing in like the, you know, to me, the constant pursuit that everybody has is kind of there is an essence of like, what is this and what is this life all about?
02:22:52:09 - 02:23:23:20
Speaker 2
And like, what am I supposed to do? And like what? You know, that that whole like the big question of just existing. Yeah, that question is in those guardrails like, like like if I decide. Like, you know, relationship, it's like, hey, this feels really good. I love you, you love me like, we should keep doing this right. You know, in some senses, instances that is kind of saying like, hey, I want to be with you long term.
02:23:23:22 - 02:23:39:23
Speaker 2
I want to commit to this. Like essentially in a relationship, we kind of have it have to have an end goal. Like whether you feel you're actually going to get there or not, you kind of have to have this a mutual agreement of like, hey, we're going to love each other in this life.
02:23:40:00 - 02:23:40:12
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:23:40:14 - 02:23:56:02
Speaker 2
And so every question, every argument that comes up in your relationship, you remember this endpoint of, like, we love each other, you know what I mean? Or like we are not really trying to get there. Like, that's not the point of getting there. But we remember we love each other. And to me.
02:23:56:04 - 02:23:57:03
Speaker 1
These these.
02:23:57:03 - 02:24:11:12
Speaker 2
Barriers, these boundaries, these bumpers, like, you know, you're pulling and you have those little bumpers that come up. These are what we're talking about with these LMS, these bumpers to me are kind of profoundly like like the human experience.
02:24:11:12 - 02:24:13:18
Speaker 1
Love, like. Yeah.
02:24:13:20 - 02:24:26:15
Speaker 2
I'm so sorry if this doesn't make sense, but, like, like there does in the essence of these bumpers of, like, what is our end goal? What are we trying to solve here? Like, I think there is whether we intentionally put.
02:24:26:17 - 02:24:27:16
Speaker 1
Like.
02:24:27:18 - 02:24:47:14
Speaker 2
Love in those bumpers or not. I think there is some sort of like, hey, human beings have this goal they're trying to get to, and these bumpers are kind of keeping us on this goal. Yeah. What do you think about that? Is there like, in that makes me think of like, you know, in the movie iRobot, they have these, like iRobot.
02:24:47:15 - 02:24:48:13
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:24:48:15 - 02:24:51:18
Speaker 2
But they have these like things that like, the robots have to follow these laws, right?
02:24:51:18 - 02:24:52:21
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
02:24:52:23 - 02:25:00:22
Speaker 2
I don't know. So somehow it starts to wiggle it into that. I could be making a bigger leap than I need to there, but, I don't know. What do you think about that? Does that spark anything for you?
02:25:00:23 - 02:25:18:06
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think I think it sounds like you're talking about. Is that these the guardrails function as, like a mechanism of human compassion that's happening within the AI. Yeah. Yeah, because it's definitely not something that, like, the AI has no shame.
02:25:18:08 - 02:25:19:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:25:19:09 - 02:25:26:21
Speaker 3
Like like you can ask it anything. You can ask it to role play with you. You could do whatever you want. I send it pictures of myself sometimes and go, am I.
02:25:26:21 - 02:25:28:18
Speaker 2
Cute? Am I saying it's like.
02:25:28:19 - 02:25:34:15
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it's like, you are amazing. I'm like, God, take me out to dinner first.
02:25:34:15 - 02:25:40:19
Speaker 1
ChatGPT you go say that again. I feel better now. Okay.
02:25:40:21 - 02:25:57:09
Speaker 3
And, yeah, it's that's like you have those guardrails where, like, okay, we don't want to, like, sexually harass the users. So, like, maybe we want to put some something on. It's like if the user is asking you something about their appearance, don't be too rude, but don't oversell it.
02:25:57:12 - 02:25:58:11
Speaker 1
You know, like.
02:25:58:13 - 02:26:16:05
Speaker 3
Always maintain truthfulness. You know, stuff like that. Like, where are our values? Where because like on the back end, like it's getting people saying things absolutely unhinged. I'm positive you've seen you've read a smut novel. I'm sure I have friends that share them on Instagram. I've seen a lot of it.
02:26:16:07 - 02:26:17:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, that goes into.
02:26:17:10 - 02:26:19:08
Speaker 3
Those lines, man. Yeah.
02:26:19:10 - 02:26:21:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, it knows.
02:26:21:15 - 02:26:41:08
Speaker 2
So how does it know to like, not bring sexiness into like, hey, remember that three months ago we were talking about all of that sexy stuff? How does it. No not suddenly bring that into like, hey, I'm working with my coworker right now and we're trying to solve this complicated protein folding problem and like, yeah, you don't want it to, like, suddenly, like, kind of sneak in, like, here you are at Sexy.
02:26:41:10 - 02:26:42:06
Speaker 1
You know what I mean? Yes.
02:26:42:12 - 02:26:56:02
Speaker 3
This is this is exactly why these are so dangerous. Because they are very, very, very sensitive to the input. So if I say I'm working with my coworker, we're working on this. I think my coworkers cute. It's not going to it's.
02:26:56:04 - 02:26:58:11
Speaker 2
Not the time to mention that. Don't mention it right now please.
02:26:58:11 - 02:27:01:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. They're right. I mean you could you.
02:27:01:05 - 02:27:16:23
Speaker 3
Can see this as like and yeah, you can see this all the time when you like asking a question. And I have a habit of sometimes I'll ask a question and then I'll put at the end like, this is what I think. And I'm like, I can't do that. I can talk to you. I can say, this is what I think.
02:27:16:23 - 02:27:26:18
Speaker 3
And you have like a sense of self enough to be like, okay, he's saying that to help me like get on the path that he's on. Not because that's what he wants me to say.
02:27:26:20 - 02:27:27:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:27:27:01 - 02:27:45:18
Speaker 3
And so ChatGPT thinks, oh, okay. So this is like when other people have said this before to me, so I should respond as if that one and that maybe is somebody who already agreed with what I was saying. So now it's going to say that. So I have to get rid of that. I'm like, no, forget that I said that or I open up a new chat.
02:27:45:20 - 02:27:48:23
Speaker 3
I'm like asked the same question without my part and it gives me a different answer.
02:27:49:00 - 02:27:49:18
Speaker 1
You know?
02:27:49:20 - 02:28:00:11
Speaker 3
So yeah, it knows to not put smut in there until you give it any kind of. It could probably tell if you were attracted to your coworker before. You would know if you were just honest with it. Open.
02:28:00:13 - 02:28:01:21
Speaker 1
Right? Yeah, yeah.
02:28:01:22 - 02:28:05:08
Speaker 3
Sometimes when she comes in the room, it smells really nice.
02:28:05:10 - 02:28:07:01
Speaker 1
You know.
02:28:07:03 - 02:28:09:11
Speaker 3
Later it's like you should ask your coworker out.
02:28:09:13 - 02:28:22:05
Speaker 2
I love to think of like this. Like your ChatGPT is like being the ultimate non bro to you. It's like you told your homie that, like, dude, did my coworker super hot. Like, I just can't even. I mean, like, she walks in the room, you're like, oh, this one. You said it was super hot.
02:28:22:08 - 02:28:24:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Dude. Shut up. Yeah.
02:28:24:20 - 02:28:35:17
Speaker 3
My coworker now. Or is this the same one you're attracted to? It's like when you call your mom like, mom, I have a question. What do you do? And I'm out with the girl. Is this the girl that you're on the date with?
02:28:35:19 - 02:28:36:12
Speaker 1
Nope. Shut up.
02:28:36:14 - 02:28:38:13
Speaker 2
I don't know about that girl, but it's not.
02:28:38:13 - 02:28:40:07
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah.
02:28:40:09 - 02:28:41:07
Speaker 3
Thanks. ChatGPT.
02:28:41:10 - 02:28:43:05
Speaker 1
Mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:28:43:05 - 02:28:52:15
Speaker 2
So, Yeah, I mean, it is interesting to think of it as, as a tool in that way of like. Yeah. Like. Like what? What a fascinating.
02:28:54:16 - 02:29:19:19
Speaker 2
Like the fact that we can tell it kind of our own private stuff. Our own. You know, nowadays you can surmise that you can use it kind of as a psychologist, which I would obviously give. Please take complete warning to that. I think, it's a dangerous thing to treat it as a psychologist if you have never, like, done any of that work before or I've been actual psychologist because like we said, it'll, you know, it'll find ways to agree with you, it'll find ways to like, reaffirm.
02:29:19:21 - 02:29:39:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, we all have bullshit. And if we're not careful about it, if that's kind of the gist of what we know about psychology is what our ChatGPT is telling us. I just just think that's a little I know it seems to be like a dangerous move. But, you know, as as it advances, as it learns more about us, as it becomes more and more personable for each of us.
02:29:39:02 - 02:29:49:04
Speaker 2
As long as it has kind of these, I guess proper guardrails and the guardrails are continuously, you know.
02:29:49:06 - 02:29:53:16
Speaker 2
Watered in and, like, given proper sunlight.
02:29:53:18 - 02:29:54:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:29:54:16 - 02:30:10:10
Speaker 2
They grow with us. I think that will be able to help us because it would be cool to see us, you know, five, ten years where we each kind of have our own fucking magical little, like, just angel over our shoulder, ideally, not at any level. Like, it's like, let's let me be the devil. This is human. And like, you just give me.
02:30:10:10 - 02:30:32:01
Speaker 2
So, like, what's, a good vice? What's something that what's some advice to activity that you could give me that like, you know, matches with my morals and values because I've talked to you about my morals and values and I've been very serious about my practice in them. And it can, like, remind you of like, hey, man, I know you're tired and like that girl super horny or sorry, that girl super hot, but, like, you're just kind of horny, right now.
02:30:32:01 - 02:30:42:08
Speaker 2
That doesn't go. Remember, you have a wife and you love your wife and that cute girl. You know what I mean? Like like it can help us remember our own morals and values in. So. Yeah, that's a weird example. I didn't see a subscriber.
02:30:42:08 - 02:30:44:05
Speaker 3
Oh, no, I see what you're saying. Yeah.
02:30:44:07 - 02:30:44:24
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:30:45:01 - 02:31:03:10
Speaker 2
Okay. It could help us realign with what we know we already want. But, like, you know, when you're hungry, you're kind of angry. And you might say things that are like a little too, you know, abrasive or rude or short or whatever. And you're like, I'm not trying to make you you feel bad, friend, but I'm just a little hungry, you know?
02:31:03:12 - 02:31:04:12
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:31:04:14 - 02:31:23:06
Speaker 3
Oh, and that's that is, again, where having someone in your corner that says, I feel most connected with you when you're feeling you love it, be you love it. That's where it's like, I don't even have to tell you that I'm hangry. You just are fine with me showing up like this. And frankly, ChatGPT does do that.
02:31:23:06 - 02:31:24:13
Speaker 1
But yeah.
02:31:24:15 - 02:31:26:03
Speaker 3
Well, it can come in angry and.
02:31:26:04 - 02:31:42:13
Speaker 2
Someone you love does that too, right? Like, your wife knows you very intricately and she's like, hey, honey, you know you haven't eaten, I know you, I know you've been obsessed with that project. And I happen to also know that you haven't had a single sandwich today. So I'm going to take personally what you just said, you know,
02:31:42:15 - 02:31:44:08
Speaker 3
Let's go grab some food.
02:31:45:00 - 02:31:46:05
Speaker 2
What an I love you.
02:31:46:07 - 02:31:49:00
Speaker 1
Yes, yes yes yes yes yes, I.
02:31:49:06 - 02:31:51:19
Speaker 3
I love that you're angry right now.
02:31:51:21 - 02:31:52:02
Speaker 1
And I'm.
02:31:52:02 - 02:31:54:14
Speaker 2
Going to allow it to be there. How frustrating would that be to hear.
02:31:54:14 - 02:31:56:23
Speaker 1
From a frickin robot?
02:31:57:00 - 02:31:59:16
Speaker 2
I notice that you are frustrated and angry right now.
02:31:59:16 - 02:32:04:18
Speaker 1
Okay, I'll unplug you. Too. Permissive. Yeah. But.
02:32:04:18 - 02:32:12:16
Speaker 2
Boy, what a journey. Yeah. I mean, as I, I don't know, I'm feeling very excited by this conversation with you about the future of of all this stuff, you know?
02:32:12:18 - 02:32:14:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, I love it.
02:32:14:04 - 02:32:32:13
Speaker 2
It's good. What excites you, man, about, you know, in this realm of all this stuff, we've kind of, you know, we're getting up here in time, so, like, thinking about what we've talked about meditation and technology and, you know, large language models, AI, all of it. Do you have any sort of like, exciting thoughts about the future that like, kind of connect a lot of this stuff?
02:32:32:13 - 02:32:35:12
Speaker 2
Is there anything that comes up in your mind?
02:32:35:14 - 02:33:06:10
Speaker 3
I think I think it all really just continues to fall into the hope that I actually have for humanity, where I spent a majority of my life being very discouraged by what I see. And so I have a lot of, excitement for what's going to happen. I don't know, it will be very interesting. There's a lot of pressure is going on in the world, and,
02:33:06:12 - 02:33:23:23
Speaker 3
Methods like ChatGPT to get away from it, I think are extremely healthy. I think chat, this is an interesting thought that I just had ChatGPT, I would argue is a the harm reduction model for humanity suffering.
02:33:24:00 - 02:33:24:11
Speaker 1
Okay.
02:33:24:13 - 02:33:34:09
Speaker 3
You can go to ChatGPT and you can, you can, you can fucking oh my God. You can say pretend you're my neighbor and then just lay into it.
02:33:34:11 - 02:33:34:23
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:33:35:00 - 02:34:12:08
Speaker 3
You know, I hate that you don't cut your tree down like your leaves are always volume. And I have to, you know, whatever. Like, yeah, you can you can do that. You can get it out somewhere where it feels human, feels real, you know? So I'd love to see us start using that to kind of, like, build more space for compassion and safety and, like, you know, I can go in there and maybe if I'm a racist, I can argue out in a safe space the racist stuff that I believe with something that's going to not necessarily agree with me and also not shame me, something that might be like, yeah, I hear that you
02:34:12:08 - 02:34:34:06
Speaker 3
think that the brains are literally different between you and a black person, but that's not how it is. And, you know, you might find that there's a lot more, you know, that you share between you and someone else of another culture, color or anything. You know, something that just kind of encourages them to do something different.
02:34:34:08 - 02:34:55:24
Speaker 2
Yeah. Bro. I well, I, I think that really comes back to what we were talking about in the beginning of like feeling our real emotions and not shoving them down, you know, so it's like like, oh, let people have these. Like it's okay to have kind of a wild thought, right? It's okay to like, having the thought of, like, that person is different than me because of the color of their skin.
02:34:56:01 - 02:35:04:10
Speaker 2
We live in a society that you shouldn't even have that thought like, had. Yeah, don't even think the word Voldemort, let alone space.
02:35:04:12 - 02:35:05:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
02:35:05:04 - 02:35:22:17
Speaker 2
And then and then we kind of create this confusing like, Oh, I gotta hide that part of me. And then maybe once I get get around some other racist guys, then I can have that part of me come out, you know? But, yeah, I do see how it could allow us to have the thoughts that we have.
02:35:22:17 - 02:35:28:00
Speaker 2
We can get them out, like you said, have a conversation, and then just, you know, Jordan Peterson, a lot of times.
02:35:28:00 - 02:35:29:14
Speaker 1
He says different versions of.
02:35:29:14 - 02:35:33:02
Speaker 2
Like, you don't really know what you think until you think it.
02:35:33:04 - 02:35:33:22
Speaker 3
Like you.
02:35:33:24 - 02:35:41:19
Speaker 2
Have these preconceived ideas of, like, I have all these blah, blah, blah. And then if you're someone who's aware of your thoughts, like, you might start listening yourself and go, like, I'm.
02:35:41:19 - 02:35:48:18
Speaker 1
Full of shit. Yeah. I'm like, what am I even saying? You know, like, exactly. I have a podcast, you know, I'll start rambling about.
02:35:48:18 - 02:35:50:07
Speaker 2
Shit and go, I don't know if I think.
02:35:50:07 - 02:35:55:06
Speaker 1
That. I think I just said it and now I have to reassess it, you know, and like.
02:35:55:06 - 02:36:13:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. So like but allowing it. That's okay though, right. It's like yeah. We're not like give ourselves a little bit of grace. But like what a wonderful idea to be able to like talk about these things, ramble on, like hear what we really have to think about until we going to go to our neighbor who's like a fucking total sweetheart.
02:36:13:02 - 02:36:17:01
Speaker 2
And we're like, now you think you have a different brain because your skin is black?
02:36:17:03 - 02:36:19:06
Speaker 1
What what what? I just yeah, like.
02:36:19:06 - 02:36:37:12
Speaker 2
This person's right in front of me and I'm, like, just blowing all over them because I have these, like, secret. You know, forbidden thoughts and words. You know, I think, to relate this to, like, mental health in my journey, a lot of my, like, suicidal ideation and, you know, you've heard the term intrusive thoughts.
02:36:37:14 - 02:36:54:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. At the beginning, I really it was mind blowing for me to allow intrusive thoughts, because for years I would have these sudden and for me, an intrusive thought. Let's say, for example, like I'm talking to you and like, say there's like a steak knife right here. Like I'd have the quick, intrusive thought like, oh, I could pick that up and stab myself really quick.
02:36:54:18 - 02:36:57:13
Speaker 2
Whoa, whoa. That's weird. Thought, right?
02:36:57:13 - 02:36:59:07
Speaker 3
But judge you so quick.
02:36:59:07 - 02:37:01:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's like, it's okay. I don't need to do my best.
02:37:01:22 - 02:37:03:06
Speaker 1
Oh, I don't have that thought.
02:37:03:11 - 02:37:25:05
Speaker 2
That's scary. Like, oh, don't even look at a knife because I don't want to. So many people, they live their lives in this very, like, amplified state of trying to run from their own thoughts. And that's a terrifying and sad place to, convince yourself that that's like, the only place that you get to be in. Like, I had a lot of success with allowing the intrusive thoughts to sit there looking at that damn knife and go,
02:37:25:07 - 02:37:26:22
Speaker 2
Sure, I could do that.
02:37:26:24 - 02:37:28:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Let's see.
02:37:28:02 - 02:37:30:24
Speaker 2
Like, just sit with it wide, let it be wide open, you know what I mean?
02:37:30:24 - 02:37:32:01
Speaker 1
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:37:32:01 - 02:38:00:24
Speaker 2
I mean, I think that is, that's a masterful. That's. I think that's something that I didn't really think about, like, until you just said that of, like the beauty of us having conversations with ourselves with the assistance of ChatGPT or large language models and helping us realize what the hell we even think about, like, yeah, you know, without being in those real stakes situations of like, dude, like you call your neighbor a racist, like, now you you just shit where you wait.
02:38:00:24 - 02:38:10:15
Speaker 2
Now you go to sleep at night and you have an enemy right next door, and you don't really think that it's not. You don't really think that you just had some thought and you didn't really get a chance to explore it, you know?
02:38:10:15 - 02:38:30:21
Speaker 3
So and it doesn't allow you to show up authentically with that person because you haven't given yourself to it. But I mean, you know, more evolved beings can sit back and have their own thoughts and meditate and do everything and like, be like, no, that is wrong. I know how I feel, you know, but that takes practice. That takes a lot.
02:38:31:01 - 02:38:50:22
Speaker 3
And it's definitely easier, especially when it's a really deep held belief. Maybe your belief is I'm bad. I'm too much. Go and talk to ChatGPT about that. It's not going to be your therapist, but it's a good place to go and just say like, I think I bet ChatGPT is not going to say you are bad.
02:38:50:24 - 02:38:51:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:38:52:01 - 02:38:55:12
Speaker 3
If you're worried about it, just tell it ahead of time. I'm fragile.
02:38:55:14 - 02:39:00:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, sure, you can do that. And there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, yeah. And then you have someone pump.
02:39:00:08 - 02:39:01:05
Speaker 3
Yeah.
02:39:01:07 - 02:39:16:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I've told it before, like, I was working on a project and I asked it to give me more encouragements. Like, I really like when you give me encouragement before you respond and like, you know, it just helped me because if I'm thinking of some creative idea, I personally get caught up in, like, I'm a fucking loser, dude, what am I doing?
02:39:16:20 - 02:39:30:00
Speaker 2
Like, I should be worried about paying my bills, not making some art on this wall or whatever. And that's not true thought. But it's it's, something that, like, I can recognize that I have of myself and I can cue my limb to, like, remind me that that's an offload.
02:39:30:06 - 02:39:30:24
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:39:31:01 - 02:39:54:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, you can get it out of your head a little bit. It's always good to have a space to do that. And you can do the real work wherever, you know, it's like you were saying before, it's it's not as black and white. It's like, oh, this is therapy, but there's a that people need something, you know, we can't just keep going as a society with this idea that, like, I'm just going to hold it in and tell them around people that agree with me.
02:39:54:20 - 02:39:55:10
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:39:55:12 - 02:40:17:16
Speaker 2
And then yeah, it feels I think, yeah. Because then we create echo chambers and you know, we reject we have this, this gift of micro realities, you know, not not just from the phone, but the phone is the most exacerbated, right, in our face version of it. And we still have a shared reality. And that's where truth really is, is in our shared reality.
02:40:17:22 - 02:40:23:14
Speaker 2
But that doesn't, you know, the word paradox. Again, it doesn't negate.
02:40:23:16 - 02:40:23:23
Speaker 1
This.
02:40:23:23 - 02:40:25:11
Speaker 2
Is still a reality.
02:40:25:13 - 02:40:26:07
Speaker 1
You know.
02:40:26:09 - 02:40:26:22
Speaker 2
And so it's.
02:40:26:22 - 02:40:27:20
Speaker 3
Absolutely.
02:40:27:20 - 02:40:28:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:40:28:02 - 02:40:31:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's you know, just like your Social Security number.
02:40:31:20 - 02:40:32:14
Speaker 1
And your.
02:40:32:14 - 02:40:44:02
Speaker 2
Buddha nature, you know, this is all this is all true. And so it's you don't get caught up in trying to argue what the capital T truth is, we all have our different realities and we interact in the shared reality. So if we can make them more cohesive and.
02:40:44:04 - 02:40:45:18
Speaker 1
Hallelujah. Yeah.
02:40:45:24 - 02:40:51:19
Speaker 3
And do you do you want to be free or do you want to be right?
02:40:51:21 - 02:41:06:02
Speaker 2
I love that. That is the best. Ask you write that on your hand, listener. Write that on your hand. Print it on the shirt and just work with that one. That one kid. Like that's some spiritual advancement over the next six months. Just work on that one thing. You'll see where you come out on the other side.
02:41:06:04 - 02:41:10:15
Speaker 3
You definitely get free through it for sure and stuff changing.
02:41:10:17 - 02:41:25:03
Speaker 2
Blake, we're getting up here in time. I do want to round the corner towards the end here. I want to ask you a question. I was thinking about this question I always come up with, like, my my rambling questions are already impossible for my poor podcast guest, but I also try to think of, like, big existential, like,
02:41:25:23 - 02:41:43:12
Speaker 2
You know, give me the biggest answer to all questions being asked right here at the end. So my question for you, at the end of this podcast here, based off of kind of what we've been talking about, based off of your own life, based off of our connection, our friendship. We've been friends for many years and we've been able to, like, kind of rekindle the more recently.
02:41:43:12 - 02:41:54:23
Speaker 2
And it's, we picked right to pick back up right where we left off. Minutes. Yeah. Very easy to connect with. You and I really appreciate that. Given that.
02:41:55:00 - 02:42:00:14
Speaker 2
You know, that that math guy you talked about who just, like, wrote a bunch of crazy and quick equations and then died the day after war?
02:42:00:16 - 02:42:02:05
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:42:02:07 - 02:42:29:19
Speaker 2
Say that the end of this podcast, like, say, say you're you're going to die tomorrow and you have this tongue in cheek wisdom of that, like, you know, like you can now give you have a microphone in front of you and quote unquote, the world is listening. What what is something that you could part as you part ways with this living experience, and you could leave some words of encouragement or some gift of something with the world.
02:42:29:19 - 02:42:34:06
Speaker 2
You had that opportunity. What would you tell the world?
02:42:38:13 - 02:42:47:08
Speaker 3
Seek the truth of your deepest thing and be that. I think that's what I would say.
02:42:47:10 - 02:42:55:12
Speaker 3
Poignant. It's very direct. I think it encompasses everything, for sure.
02:42:55:14 - 02:43:00:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. This kind of meditates. Yeah.
02:43:00:20 - 02:43:05:15
Speaker 2
That's brilliant, man. I really like that. I really like that. What a great answer.
02:43:05:17 - 02:43:14:10
Speaker 3
It's easy to say, you know, everything is peaceful, love and all that kind of stuff, but I feel like allowing people to, like, recognize that in themselves, it's better.
02:43:14:16 - 02:43:15:12
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:43:15:14 - 02:43:35:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. And I love how because I, I think I'm not trying to I don't want to pick it, pick it apart because I think it's so juicy in itself. Everybody should have its own. But, yeah, it's, the truth of your being, I think is pretty powerful. I think we get really caught up. I love, I love, love religion and theology and spirituality and all that stuff.
02:43:35:18 - 02:43:42:22
Speaker 2
Sometimes that realm gets caught up in like, well, which one is the truth?
02:43:42:24 - 02:43:45:06
Speaker 1
You know? Yeah. Well, which.
02:43:45:06 - 02:43:46:03
Speaker 2
One's true for you right.
02:43:46:03 - 02:43:51:22
Speaker 1
Now about that, I don't I don't really kick. Yeah. Exactly.
02:43:52:01 - 02:43:52:20
Speaker 3
Give you an answer.
02:43:52:24 - 02:43:55:19
Speaker 1
Yeah yeah yeah yeah I, I really.
02:43:55:19 - 02:43:58:04
Speaker 3
Do try to practice be here now as much as.
02:43:58:04 - 02:43:59:12
Speaker 1
Possible. Yeah.
02:43:59:12 - 02:44:08:19
Speaker 3
It's it's really. Yeah. It's whatever. Whatever anybody wants it to be. If I'm around Mormons, we're all LDS.
02:44:08:19 - 02:44:10:09
Speaker 1
Today.
02:44:10:11 - 02:44:16:23
Speaker 3
You know, if I'm around some witches. Cool. Let's do some incantations. That's cool. You want to talk about astrology? Yeah.
02:44:17:00 - 02:44:21:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Give me a couple. It's your horoscope. Yeah? Yeah, exactly.
02:44:21:05 - 02:44:23:00
Speaker 2
Well, I was born on this day and that.
02:44:23:01 - 02:44:24:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, I yeah.
02:44:24:22 - 02:44:43:02
Speaker 2
I, I'm right there. Yeah. Connect to connect your truth. Follow your truth. Yeah. Okay. All right. Blake. Well, man, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you. As we end this thing here. So, if you want to check out more. Blake, I will tag below. If you want to, just follow me on Instagram, see his thoughts in a little bit inside of his life.
02:44:43:02 - 02:44:50:05
Speaker 2
Feel free. Blake, is there anywhere else that you want to send people? Is there anything else that you want to, impart with with these listeners?
02:44:50:07 - 02:44:53:01
Speaker 1
I don't think so. Yeah. Just,
02:44:53:03 - 02:44:54:24
Speaker 3
Meditate today.
02:44:55:01 - 02:44:55:11
Speaker 1
I like it.
02:44:55:11 - 02:44:58:12
Speaker 3
That's time to start meditating. Was yesterday.
02:44:58:14 - 02:44:59:00
Speaker 1
Yep.
02:44:59:04 - 02:45:00:16
Speaker 3
Next best is today.
02:45:00:18 - 02:45:02:11
Speaker 1
And, zero or.
02:45:02:13 - 02:45:16:00
Speaker 2
One is greater than zero. So don't go thinking that you need to. I need to start my meditation practice, and I'm going to start a six week meditation journey if that's what works for you. That's cool. But honestly, man, if whatever you got today, whatever you got tomorrow is just fine.
02:45:16:02 - 02:45:16:17
Speaker 3
Five minutes.
02:45:16:17 - 02:45:18:03
Speaker 1
Sitting. Yeah, yeah.
02:45:18:03 - 02:45:34:12
Speaker 2
Start, start meditating. Listener, drink some water. If you have drank no water today, I don't care what time it is. This could be 4:00 in the morning. It's absurd that you have not drink any water. Please drink some water. If you haven't stretched today, you're out of your goddamn mind. You know the deal. Drop on all fours and give me some stretches, please.
02:45:34:14 - 02:45:38:18
Speaker 2
Stretch. Love yourself. Meditate I have these, I have these, like little.
02:45:38:22 - 02:45:41:17
Speaker 1
At the end of all the podcasts I affirmations.
02:45:41:21 - 02:45:50:24
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, stretch and drink water is a big one. So anyway, thank you guys for listening. Blake, thank you again for your time. And, love you guys. We'll see you on the next one.
02:45:53:17 - 02:45:55:06
Speaker 2
Junkie I love podcast.