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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I'd like to invite you to take a moment.
In your day.
To simply soften.
To take acknowledgement and inventory
of where you are in this moment.
And as you continue to soften.
Continue to relax your body.
Find a center.
To reflect.
Breathing in breathing out.
Taking this moment.
To expand into your capacity.
To expand into your gifts.
And to witness yourself.
And all of your abundance.
Breathing in.
And breathing out.
Softening into what is rightfully or is.
Inventory everything you have created.
And as you witness.
Let your mind.
Like your spirits.
Indulge.
Taking it where you need to go.
Breathing in.
And breathing out.
Once again.
I think peace.
And everything.
That you have been gifted.
Continuing to allow the active
imagination and the wonderful gifts.
Of your abundance.
Of your creations.
Breathing out.
Love.
And breathing in.
Passion for self.
Once again, breathing out.
Love.
And breathing in compassion.
For all that you have created.
Taking a moment.
To turn towards your hands.
Potentially grasping
them, holding them gently.
I'm taking this minute.
To realize everything
that you have created.
Everything that you have nurtured.
Everything that you have held.
By your hands.
As if it were a flip book of your life.
Breathing in and breathing out.
As you hold yourself, tenderly.
Taking one more breath in.
And the grounding breath out.
Knowing you can always
come back to this spot.
This space.
Hi.
It's Ryan and welcome to your weekly
dose of the psychedelic psychologist.
Or I invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction
and severe depression.
To finding wholeness
and spiritual margins.
Today I am welcomed and
deeply humbled to have Thomas.
Revisiting, reviewing and
renewing our conversation.
Thomas.
It's great to see you.
Great to hear you.
How are you coming in?
Yeah, thanks, Ryan.
It's really nice to be here.
I mean in.
And I feel just really
light and balanced and.
Just excited to be here.
One of the things I want to drop
directly into is your reverence for the
medicine and specifically the mushrooms.
What do you.
Oh, and how do you pay
homage to the mushrooms?
Because I know.
They're so important to your spirit.
Can you talk to me a little
bit about how you hold them?
Yeah, I I feel like I hold them
with some of the highest regard
of anything in my life for.
They don't.
They're the.
Main reason that I'm on the girl
path that I'm on, where I feel.
At peace and at harmony with myself.
And it's been a journey over the last
four or five years now, but I feel like
they've just accelerated my growth and my.
Understanding of myself.
And I just.
I've abandoned places of not
being in harmony with myself.
And it's been just messy.
I see, and not authentic to who I am.
And It just feels amazing.
In a place where I'm more
consistently in harmony with
myself and that piece of myself.
When I listened to you, there's a deep
sense of reverence and emotions coming up.
Thomas w w what's alive in your
system right now, as you're
reflecting on that harmony.
I think just that
acknowledgement of growth.
And just that.
I have like a, a renewed confidence.
That's just been like continuing to grow
on me over the last few years where I
just have confidence in myself that.
Even when I come out of balance.
And I'm not in harmony with myself
that I can, I have ways and have
trust in myself and just in the, in
the universe that I'll be able to
get back into a place of harmony.
You say something really important for me.
And it's acknowledging that
we do all and specifically
myself, I can speak for myself.
And what I heard in you is
we do fall out of balance.
And so.
What's that like in.
Tell me how you know this, that, or
what do you start to recognize if.
There might be a call to a
mushroom journey or that I'm
seeing myself fall out of balance.
What do I do to identify that?
And.
Yeah.
Some of the guideposts that I've like
I've observed in myself just when.
I'm falling out of like peace with
myself and just like, not feeling
genuine with myself as more, just like
in the little things, like the little
frustrations and the day-to-day where.
Like, if I'm having computer issues with
something at work, I just can get like,
Unusually angry with the situation
and just like frustrated with it.
And they're like emotions that
I feel in those situations.
Just don't feel like trued up.
Who I am and what I want to be feeling.
So just like little things like that, or
if I'm just being less gentle with myself
or less gentle with those around me.
Just not having as much grace.
I feel like I can feel myself
kind of falling out of.
Not operating at like the.
At the same frequency that I.
I am.
Wanting to operate on and then felt that
I've that I have operate on at times and
feel so good and feel just like truly
authentic to myself in those moments.
And I can feel myself fall out
of that when I'm just sensing
those little frustrations.
And we always talk about the,
finding the magic in the mundane.
And I feel like when I'm my best self I'm.
That's easy to do.
It's easy to find the magic in the Monday.
And then when I'm falling out of that,
it's I get caught up in those little
things and I lose sight of that magic.
Thank you for that.
I appreciate that.
Because I do truly love
the magic in the mundane.
And I know you and I have worked
so hard at identifying it.
Do you get the sense, Thomas, that
you work through some skills or
do you directly turn to prepper?
Do you directly turn to
preparing for a ceremony?
If you start seeing.
Yourself fall out of line.
What do you do to maneuver through that?
I think it's a, it's a little bit of
like chicken in the egg situation at
times where sometimes I have the date
on the calendar where I try to do it.
Do this, you know, three to four times a
year, somewhat with the seasons and try to
do it through that transition of season.
And so sometimes it's.
Falling into place there and just
knowing like that that's on the
counter, the weeks leading up to
that, I started to think about what.
Maybe my intention is or
what I've been feeling lately
and what I maybe want to be.
Thinking about or letting go of
it in those experiences and stuff.
So.
Sometimes it's like it's on the calendar
and I'm like thinking about it in mindful.
All of it.
And other times that's, I'm feeling those
little frustrations or feeling those
guideposts where it's like, I should
really try to find time on the calendar
to do this in the, in the upcoming.
And then I feel like either way it
tends to happen where it just feels.
It feels right.
And it feels like these like times open
up for myself and then in the weeks
leading up to it, I'm just even, I'm
more aware of myself and more mindful of.
Making sure that my mind and body and
spirit are in a good spot to go through
an experience with the mushrooms.
And so fascinating and
so important, right?
To inner life, your
mind, body, and spirit.
As it comes closer.
Are there activities you do in
preparatory before a large ceremony to
care for your mind, body and spirit.
And like the week leading up to it, I
try to one just like physically like
move a little bit more, especially
if I haven't been moving and just
eat a little bit healthier than a.
If I haven't been eating as healthy as,
as I'd like to just try to get, like, my
body is as clean and neutral as I can.
Because it does those experiences
do take a real toll on my body.
And then as far as just one
thing I've been really mindful
of the last couple experiences
over the last few months is just.
Trying to declutter my
mind a bit ahead of that.
I tend to overstimulate my mind throughout
the day, whether it's through just.
Kind of like some add and I work better
with something going on in my head
or I'm a little bit bored at work.
And I, I.
I'd like to kind of fill that space
with just kind of BS type of stuff.
So especially in the weeks leading
up to it and something that
I'm actually really working on.
All the time.
Right now coming out of a recent
experience, that's just not.
Putting as much content into my head.
So not.
Consuming as one social media
not consuming as much YouTube.
Just trying to have more quiet space with
myself, even if it's just in the mornings
or right before bed, just kind of honoring
that quiet time with myself to try to.
Declutter my mind as much as possible
going into those experiences.
I love that the cluttering of the mind,
and that's such a refreshing idea as we
get ready, because so often, you know,
we're amplified with intentions were.
Maybe full of anxiety or
preparatory like anticipation.
And so just softening
the mind and the heart.
That's such a breath of fresh air.
You alluded Thomas to a
recent ceremony that you had.
And can we unpack it integrate
what's landing for you?
You talked about this.
The ability to declutter the mind.
What, what else arose?
And can you share a little bit
of what you're integrating right
now and what we can unpack?
Yeah.
So I actually had an experience just
this past weekend on Saturday, and that
was really beautiful and wonderful.
And going into it.
It was, my intention was very much just.
How can I honor this
transition of seasons?
I had a.
Another experience and July, that was kind
of like my summer seasonal experience.
And it was this very much like.
Some are fun, euphoric, like just
kind of like don't take yourself so
seriously reminder, just, and that was
coming off a really deep experience
in the spring where I felt very
cosmically connected and connected
with earth and purpose and all that.
So I had just like this really fun
kind of psychedelic summer experience.
And then.
Going into my experience this past
weekend, it was very much around.
Okay.
We've had our summer fun.
Like the season of Paul is coming up.
It's a couple of busy months for
me through this transition in
DePaul, just wrapping up summer and.
And getting into fall.
It's just like the
calendar is really busy.
So how can I just honor
this transition and.
Go with the transition.
I always seem to get caught off
guard by the season change and
like crap it's fall already.
I wanted to do this and prepare for this.
So just like getting ahead of that
seasonal change and just really
carrying that intention of how
can I honor this, this transition.
And it was kind of cool.
Actually.
I had a whole weekend to myself.
My, my wife was gone and
Friday night I did just a night
with myself in journal then.
It's some Terrell.
And I called the hermit in my
terrible card, which is very much
just like solitude and reflection
and, and going inward and stuff.
So just like carrying that.
Kind of theme and to my trip on sat
on that Saturday, then of honoring the
season with solitude and spending time
with myself and spending more time in
that quiet place with myself, then.
I had this really cool experience
of just exploring the self.
I felt this like Very intentional
delineation between the mind, body
and spirit, where it's able to kind
of like be in the observer mind
and observe my spirit and feel my
body kind of all on the same time.
And.
I think coming out of it, I just
had this, like this Uranian to learn
more about like the concept of self.
I was like, just this really cool
experience of exploring myself and.
No one, even really know how to
like, explain that without just
like, it was just like an experience.
And so.
Coming out of this.
Yeah.
Being able to explain it.
Yeah.
So coming out of this, just like.
Things that I'm trying to integrate as
just spending more time with myself self
de-cluttering my mind more consistently.
And not just ahead of these.
Mushroom experiences and.
Spending more time in that quiet and more
time in the reflection and journaling.
And then just spending time
with myself, I love myself and
like, I'm not afraid to spend.
Myself.
And I think I just like get
caught up in like the speed of
life and overstimulate myself.
And then I get to the
end of the day on them.
Kind of, I don't have the capacity
to spend the quality time with
myself that I would want to.
That's a remarkable, do you get the sense
that we're talking about experiencing it?
Is there a.
Gentler cellular nervous system, knowing
that you can be with yourself, does the
frenetic energy of the external world
soften after an experience like that?
Are you getting the sense that.
There's a commerce state
within your system.
That's associated with
being with yourself.
It definitely does.
And I think that was like the kind
of like yearning and excitement that
I felt in feeling that experience of
self was like, well, this feels good.
And like I feel just like
lighter and calmer, just.
From the inside out.
After that, then.
I think that's where I'm like, I'm
excited to start exploring some of
these practices that I've been just
like tiptoeing around and kind of
hesitant to dive into like meditation.
Even just like putting on an eye mask
and having 60 seconds of silent darkness.
You know, Every once in a
while, like just really starting
to tap into those types of.
Including those things into my practice.
It's really beautiful.
Yeah.
I often call the idea
of coming close through.
This belt desensitizing to re sensitize.
And what I'm hearing
from you is this idea.
That the energy of podcasts,
music, expectations of work and
life can really destabilize us.
And so I love what you're saying
about putting a blindfold on and just.
Going internal rather than
grasping at the external.
Do you find after a session like this?
There's easy access points to
integrate, or what do you do?
Is it more embodied?
Is it more cognitive, more?
Action-orientated how you drive
your integration practice.
It's a little bit of all of those things.
It's it's talking through it, it's
talking through it with my wife, then
some close friends and you and it's
just hanging on to that feeling and
those like, Emotions felt in those
experiences felt in those moments.
As much as possible and just
try and do embody those.
In outside of that.
Then outside of the medicine
space and just trying to hang
onto those, those experiences
and feelings in the day to day.
And then there.
There is definitely action items too.
And sometimes that's just
is like doing nothing.
And I have to be like, very like,
Cognizant of not trying to do
too much or being too hard on
myself from not doing too much.
So.
But definitely some of the action
items coming out of this experience.
I was like trying to tap into.
Meditation a little bit then trying
to spend some quiet time with
myself very intentionally every day.
And I picked up some.
Carl Young books to start learning about
kind of that like psychology of Seltz.
And I'm excited to kind of like
dive in and look all winter and
slow down a little bit then.
Have time to spend with
myself and learn a little bit.
Slip in that space for awhile.
Yeah.
To live in the space.
And what I am grateful for you,
Thomas, is this idea of trying it
on something that's so important.
And I.
Well, the echo is this idea that you
don't have to hold onto it so tightly
or go at integration with this.
The draw of forests or now I have to do
something with it, but really it can be.
Quite a passive experience.
And that's what I'm
hearing from you today.
Do you relate to that?
Yeah, I think The way that like,
I just operate in life and in
work, it's like I have to feel
inspired and authentic in what I do.
So it's, it's very much, sometimes
I want to do these things or think
it's a cool idea or a good idea.
To do these things, but I I've
learned that I have to wait for that
inspiration and authenticity to like,
strike the word feels right then.
True to do those things.
Yeah.
So what you're saying is
.
I'm pretty.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I love it.
Bring me up to speed with
everything that is in your body
right now, how do you hold it?
How do you stay true to it?
So, you know, we talked about it kind
of diminishing and you talked about
it being held now and so precious
being so close to a recent experience.
What would you say?
Are some of the most beneficial
things you do to hold it
tenderly and keep the fire lit.
I feel like my biggest battle with letting
go of that or not holding onto it is.
It is just like work and the corporate
life and society and the societal norm.
So.
Especially like kind of doing these on
weekends in between workweeks and stuff.
Just being very gentle with myself,
going into the work week and you
know, where like I have to still get
my job done and do these things, but.
Be like this week, I've
been very intentional with
just having slow mornings.
And spending time with myself in the
morning and then making sure that I'm
spending time with my journal or just
drawing or having a cup of coffee in
the garage and just listening to some,
some music by myself before I dive right
into like the whirlwind of the Workday.
And then.
On the flip side of that, just making
sure that I have a transition at the
end of the day where I'm done with
work now, I've, I've done what I can.
I maybe didn't do
everything that I like was.
Supposed to quote unquote, supposed to
do, but I did what I needed to do today.
And yeah.
Can you split that and then go into my
nights and And just be able to carry,
carry the, that experience through in,
in those moments and the in-between and.
Also find ways to, to feel that
at work too, just finding grace
with people and kindness with
people and gentleness with myself.
If I screw up on something or
don't do something exactly how
I wanted to, or, or whatever.
So I'm humbled by your bringing
in your work too, because so
often we try to silo, right?
And what you just said so
beautifully as this idea of that.
I am going to walk with it.
I'm going to be present to it.
And I'm going to show compassion
to others and through the way
you show up, and it's a breath of
fresh air, as I often say, because.
We're able then to walk one
foot in and one foot out.
It's not as if our psychedelic
experiences have to be contained
and then we unpack them after work
or we unpack on after we get home.
But rather how they flow
between the way you live.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's at work is so much
of my interaction with people.
So trying to carry those through
with those interactions and.
Just with the interaction with myself
too, and being kind with myself.
And those work.
Which those challenging work moments.
And those moments where you're
maybe not succeeding as much as you.
Need to, or, or whatever.
Tell me a little bit.
So you and I have been working
together for some time now,
and you have such a beautiful,
beautiful system with the seasons.
I honor it and advocate for it deeply.
When you recognize that the seasons
provide you let's pivot and just
unpack, you talked about the fun
and the playfulness of summer.
Sometimes the reflection of spring.
Are there huge themes that
you're starting to recognize
within your seasonal experiences?
Yeah, for sure.
They're like what I've recognized
over the last couple of summers is
the mushrooms has helped me feel more
in tune with my body and I've just.
Feel people more in my body
than I ever have before.
I've always felt kind of awkward
in my, in space, in my body.
And and the summer, I feel like
I tend to really lean into that.
I'm wanting to be more active on
like, When it like going back to being
inspired, to do things and feet and
feeling authentic and doing things like
in the summer feels just right then.
I'm very energized and inspired to move
my body and go on walks and play golf.
And.
Maybe try to skateboard
a little bit and just.
Just really leaning into the body space.
And then going into fall and winter
and those slower months, I tend to.
Go more inward.
I like life slows down a little bit.
Like I'm not outside as much,
which I really enjoy being outside.
So sometimes I, I.
And fighting that a little bit, but try
and do embrace that internal space, like
one being inside in the house, but then
two, just being more inside myself and
spending more time with myself, especially
going into this fall and winter.
I'm really excited too.
Just spend more time with myself
and in that reflective space.
Fantastic.
Fantastic.
You know, And then this is the
question that I drop and end with is.
Thomas, what are you doing
to be gentle with yourself?
What.
Actively passively.
And in a way, embodying gentleness.
How does that represent
in your life today?
It's It's really caring, like
that message of gentleness through
just some of the day-to-day like.
Like I was staying, like, I.
Do something incorrect at work,
just being gentle with myself and.
Rectifying it.
And rectify it and letting it
go, or I need to let go of that.
And not beating myself up over.
Little things that at the end of
the day, No one may even notice,
or it doesn't really matter.
And.
I'm just like building these
like mountains out of molehills.
So just being really gentle
with myself when I'm.
Things like that happen at work,
but then also just in my like
integration work and how I'm
treating myself and treating others.
If I'm falling down on that and
not treating people the way that
I want to be treated, people are.
Being as intentional with my time
or space as I want to just being
gentle with myself and knowing like
I get to try again and it's okay.
And.
Maybe that's what I needed at that time.
Anyways.
I think I get to try this as
many times as I, as I want to.
Yeah, that trying on and being kind to
yourself is really a wonderful vision.
Do you get the sense?
That there's a deep emotion coming up.
After an experience like this.
Whether my witness.
Excuse me.
What am I witnessing in the
emotion that you're sharing?
I always feel just this like
intense emotion of like log and
it's been coming through on my last
couple of trips and just very like
euphoric feelings and laughter.
So I just, I I'm feeling very
like content in myself and
very, just happy and at peace.
If that makes sense.
We make the Denisons
I'm humbled and honored.
Thomas.
Thank you.
That's great to be with you.
Yeah, thanks, Ryan.