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The GreenPal Lawn Care Business Growth Show features real lawn care professionals sharing how they build reliable, profitable landscaping businesses in cities across the United States.
I think mine was just
building up reputation with customers,
then like and services, and then being
able to call me for almost
anything. We do anything from the
landscaping end,
remodeling a house, roofing, concrete.
So, I think that helps too, that
one-stop shop for people.
Yeah, I could see where, you know, you
get one you get them to trust you to to
to cut the grass, and then they need
gutters, and then they need um
bathroom. You have bathroom
roof, anything anything. We don't say no
to customer. If they want something
little, we'll do something little. If
they want something big, we'll do
something big.
Welcome to the Green Pal Lawn Care
Business Growth Show. My name is Gene
Caballero, one of the co-founders. On
the show, we talk to real landscaping
professionals that have built profitable
and reliable businesses. On the show
today, we have Chuck Miller with C&C
Miller Contracting out of Youngstown,
Ohio. Chuck, welcome to the show. Tell
us a little bit about your landscaping
business in Youngstown, Ohio, and how
you got started.
Well, thank you for having me, Gene.
Started off me doing general
contracting, and somehow that turned
into property maintenance for some
commercial properties I had, and kind of
just branched out and started doing
landscaping stuff on a daily basis on
top of building and remodeling. So,
And so, you're kind of still doing both?
Yes, sir.
Perfect. Perfect. And so, roughly
revenue-wise on the landscaping aspect
of it, where are you at today? How many
lawns are you mowing per week? Tell us a
little bit about that.
Residential, I probably have about 35,
something like that, give or take.
Commercial, I have about another 30
itself. I mean, it's not bad, it's okay.
It's definitely not the top of my
revenue. It's more of keep guys busy if
we're slow building and stuff like that.
Okay. And how did you transition to get
so many commercial customers? Was it
word of mouth from residential, or how
did you come about having those in
landscaping or commercial?
Some of it was word of mouth and then
some of it was doing work for certain
companies and then they pushed me on to
other companies and then so on and so
on. So it kind of, you know, went from
there, snowballed from there.
Got you. And if somebody was looking to
add on more commercial work, how would
you kind of advise them to do so?
That's a tough one. I happen to fall
into it knowing the right people and you
know, it just kind of worked out that
way. Reach out to smaller companies.
Like that's probably the best way to do
it is knocking on doors. Or just talking
to them, seeing companies that if you
drive by the grass is severely overgrown
or you know, run down, stuff like that.
So kind of the same almost as you see
somebody's home that's tall, you just go
ask them, huh?
Yep, pretty much. Pretty much the same
kind of concept. Now, I mean the bigger
companies they get it subbed out through
other companies. So sometimes that's a
little, you know, that's out of their
hands. But the not so large companies,
like not the franchises and stuff like
that, you go door to door to them, you
can pick some up.
And so what did your landscaping or lawn
mowing company look like when you first
got started?
Me, my son and a zero turn. You know, we
said, "Hey, we got some properties we
got to take care of." Then we started
adding on residential customers, stuff
like that and then we bought more
equipment and got bigger and bigger.
And so what really changed it kind of
helped move that business a little bit
further on? Was it you did more
marketing, you did more advertising?
Uh honestly, I do zero advertising. Like
I don't ever I mean I have a website, I
have that stuff, but I don't other than
handing business cards to people and
stuff like that. I don't promote, I
don't put yard signs out. I do any of
that stuff. So I think mine was just
building up reputation with customers,
them liking services and then being able
to call me for almost anything. I mean
we do anything from the landscaping end,
uh remodel a house, roofing, concrete.
So I think that helps too that one stop
shop for people.
Yeah, yeah, good point. So once you're
at the house, you could literally do
anything that that homeowner or business
owner wants outside and inside.
Yep. So I mean that's helpful.
Yeah, I could see where, you know, you
get one you get them to trust you to cut
the grass and then they need gutters and
then they need bathroom
Yeah, bathroom, roof, anything. Even a
handrail fixed. I mean, anything. I
mean, we don't say no to customer. If
they want something little, we'll do
something little. If they want something
big, we'll do something big.
So, you kind of got a monopoly on that
person. Once you get your foot in the
door, literally, you can go inside and
outside.
I try to. I try to keep it that way. I
mean, it's been my business model for 25
years is word of mouth, customer base,
and reputation. Like, you know,
customer's mostly right. I mean,
sometimes they're not, but you don't
tell them that.
Yeah. Yeah. At least you have to let
them think they're right, right?
Yeah, it's pretty much, yeah.
Yeah.
Awesome. So, all right. Your business is
based out of Youngstown, Ohio, the
quintessential Rust Belt, correct?
Correct.
Okay. So, what specific neighborhoods or
areas in the Youngstown market do you
service? Like, Boardman, Canfield,
Niles, Girard, Poland. Run me through
the list of all the areas that you
service.
Oh, you pretty much said them most of
them. We got Salem, we have Niles,
Boardman, Warren, Northwest Warren, we
have Champion, Lebanon down here where
that train accident was. That's close to
us. I mean, there's there's a lot of
towns and we're willing to go a little
farther than most, so that kind of helps
us, too.
You guys are right on the border of
Pennsylvania, correct?
Correct, yes. We're about 20 minutes
away from Pennsylvania. So, then you got
Hermitage, PA over there, you got New
Castle, you got Butler County over
there, which is a big area. So, I mean,
we do travel a lot too for contracting
and not so much the landscaping.
Are there any specific neighborhoods
that are better for like weekly or
bi-weekly customers?
Canfield's probably one of the better
ones. Boardman, definitely. They're
probably the top two around here.
They're the more pristine areas, the
more, you know what I mean? You got to
make sure you're on top of your game
cutting that grass. Yeah, they're pretty
much about us. Probably irrigation
systems they needed, you know, weekly by
weekly.
Yes. They're the ones you got to stay on
top of.
And so, how do you price your lawn
mowing jobs or landscaping jobs? Is it
price per minute? Is it square foot? Or
tell us how you kind of price that.
I tend to look at the property, the
difficulty of the property, the square
footage of the property, and the area,
obviously. I mean, if you're in the
heart of Youngstown, you're not going to
be able to price the same as you are in
Canfield or Boardman or one of those or
I'm sorry, Boardman you can. Like, you
start getting outside your area where
it's, you know, you can't You got to be
a little bit lower. Sometimes you got to
eat it if you want it, and then, you
know, it's just as what it is, but, you
know, you want to keep a route going.
Sometimes you take a couple of those and
mix them in there and keep your day
busy.
Yeah, there's always an opportunity to
upsell as well, too, right? Make your
money on
on the shrubs or the mulch or something
like that.
Oh, yeah, that's honestly, that's
probably where the money comes from on
the landscaping, and then it's not the
grass cutting. Now, that it's the extra
work you get, you know.
And I think a lot of people are
sometimes a little bit scared to ask for
that business, you know. I think it's
Hey,
uh you know, you have several
opportunities to upsell a customer, and
I think people are a little afraid to do
that. Maybe they just don't know how to
price it or they never done it before,
but if somebody was looking to upsell,
how would you kind of approach that?
I usually go in if I see a troubled
area, I'll point it out to them and ask
them if they would like me to put
together an estimate and a game plan on
how to fix it, you know, what it would
take to get it to where it would need to
be. It's usually about how I go.
And what do you think separates a
profitable landscaping business from one
that struggles? Is it pricing? Is it
quality of work? Kind of walk us through
what you think separates those two.
Probably balancing pricing with the
quality, balancing pricing with what
equipment you're going to have cuz,
obviously, you get out there some of
that equipment's 20 grand for a
stand-on, and, you know, it's some of
that's up there, so if you're doing
residential, you better be doing a lot
of high ends if you got a 20-gram
machine, you know what I mean? So, it's
a balance. That That's for sure. It's
definitely a balance. It doesn't make my
books the highest at the end of the
year, but it keeps people busy. It's
profitable. I have, you know what I
mean? Guys that need to stay working
working.
Uh-huh.
Keeping them happy. Keep Yeah, keeping
them happy when there's slow times on
other stuff.
Yeah, and you also do I'm assuming you
also do snow removal in the winter as
well?
Yes, sir.
And how do you price the snow removal in
Youngstown?
I do it square foot, however big their
driveway is, and then that's usually
about how I go about it.
Is that kind of the standard in the
area?
Yeah, it it probably is. It's probably
about what it is for everybody else.
And how do you handle hiring or managing
crews, you know, landscaping side and
also like contracting side as well, cuz
those two kind of overlap, correct?
Yeah, very stressful. I'm going to tell
you that. A lot of guys come and go over
the years a lot. So, I mean, especially
in this field, you get a lot of people
that show up and then they don't show
up. So, it's difficult. Luckily for me,
my two sons, great. My oldest son works
by my side. My youngest one broke away,
moved to Texas, does his own thing down
there now. So, they help me with the
day-to-day running stuff and with the
hiring and keeping control of
everything.
And what do you think's been your
biggest lesson on, you know, managing
people?
Ooh, people are delicate. You have to be
very tact talking to people. Like, can't
be heavy-handed, but you can't be
light-handed. You let them get away,
then they will get away with stuff.
Delicate is a very very good word to
describe it. People are very delicate.
They certainly are.
I've learned to have patience over the
years, that's for sure. In my younger
days, I didn't have as much patience as
I do now with people. So.
Yeah, that's that's good advice. And so,
flipping it over to the homeowner side,
you have a homeowner in Youngstown, Ohio
that is looking to have someone cut
their grass. What is something that they
should look for or to avoid if they're
looking to outsource their lawn care
this summer?
People's equipment when they show up, if
they show up in a car that's falling
apart, and I'll push lawnmower, then
maybe that's that's a little sketchy. I
mean, I always tell my guys that
uniforms every day, like you got to keep
a clean cut. You can't come in looking,
you know, like you were out on a bender
all night, stuff like that. Like no
smoking on a person's property. I really
frown upon people smoking on anybody's
property. That's like a big no-no to me.
Don't even pull a cigarette out when
we're working.
And so, I think you kind of already
talked about this, but red flags would
be the equipment that they're on, the
appearance, anything else?
The way they talk, the way they approach
people. I mean, there's some people who
are just you can only imagine in this
business. So, you get and then some of
what he says out there.
Yeah.
Uh no no English whatsoever. Just the
way they talk, it's horrible.
Right. Right. Right. Yeah, you got to
have a balance of being professional and
all kinds of different idiosyncrasies
that they should bare minimum have. So,
I understand that. So, all right. And
last question, Chuck, and I'll let you
get back to your busy day. What's one
piece of advice that you would give for
someone that's trying to start a
landscaping business or a snow removal
business in the Youngstown, Ohio, area?
Sometimes less is more. Trying to take
on too much is very costly at times. So,
like one lesson I learned over the years
is sometimes less is a lot more. You
could build faster by taking a little
less. You concentrate on what you have,
concentrate on making things looking
perfect, and you know, not rushing
through and do more.
Focusing on those initial customers and
make sure they're happy before you try
to go into a different area or something
like that. Is that kind of what I'm
hearing?
Yep. If they're happy, then that means
they're going to give your name to
somebody else, and then you make them
happy, and then, you know, so on. It's
almost like a pyramid. You got to build
it up, build it up, and I think it's the
best way. I hate advertising. I hate
putting stuff out there. I just It's
just not me.
I've heard a lot of the consensus being,
you know, if you grow too fast, your
original customers are going to feel
that pain, and you're not going to be
able to keep anybody happy. So, start
slow and grow strategically as opposed
to quickly.
Yes, sir.
Got you. All right. Well, Chuck, thank
you so much for joining the show. You've
dropped some wisdom on me and you know,
anybody listening to this and tell us
what your website, how people can find
you C&C Miller Contracting.
Uh yeah, they can look me up by C&C
Miller Contracting. That's all you got
to do is Google that and you'll come up
and you'll find me. It'll pop up. At
least it should unless something's
wrong, but yeah.
My Facebook page will come up and it'll
take you to my website.
Awesome. Well, Chuck, thank you so much
for for joining the podcast and all you
landscaping guys out there, keep going,
keep mowing and keep growing. Until next
time, Chuck, thank you so much, buddy.
Thank you, G.