Sky Kittens with Daniel Istvanko

Show Notes

Join Kosta and his guest: Daniel Istvanko, Wildlife Diversity Coordinator for Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency in Biodiversity.

The Mission of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency is to preserve, conserve, manage, protect, and enhance the fish and wildlife of the state and their habitats for the use, benefit, and enjoyment of the citizens of Tennessee and its visitors.

Today we’re talking about bats, their role and impact on Tennessee and how we can protect this critical species before it’s too late.

In This Episode:  What the daily work of a wildlife researcher looks like,  how global warming and climate change are impacting bats and their habitats, if we should be worried about the collapse of cave systems in Tennessee. 

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a product of Morgan Franklin Media and recorded in Cookeville, TN.

Find out more about Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency:
https://www.tn.gov/twra.html

Find out more about Kosta and all the ways we're better together:
http://kostayepifantsev.com/

What is Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev?

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a podcast about business, parenting and living life intentionally. We're here every week to bring you intentional conversations on making your own path to success, challenging the status quo, and finding all the ways we're better. Recorded in Cookeville, TN, Kosta joins guests from all walks of life to bring fresh perspective and start your week with purpose. We're better together.

Daniel Istvanko: What we don't
know is not only is it going to

just affect the insects, but
what else is it going to affect?

You know, when one keystone
species just all of a sudden

kind of disappears from the
surface? That's the real

question is what is the next to
take the fall? What happens

next?

Morgan Franklin: Welcome to
Better Together with Kosta

Yepifantsev, a podcast on
Parenting, Business and Living

Life Intentionally. We're here
every week to bring you

thoughtful conversation, making
your own path to success,

challenging the status quo, and
finding all the ways we're

better together. Here's your
host, Kosta Yepifantsev.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Hey, y'all,
this is Kosta. And today I'm

here with my guest Daniel
Istvanko, Wildlife Diversity

coordinator for Tennessee
Wildlife Resources Agency in

biodiversity. The mission of the
Tennessee Wildlife Resources

Agency is to preserve, conserve,
manage, protect, and enhance the

Fish and Wildlife of the state
and their habitats for the use

benefit and enjoyment of the
citizens of Tennessee and its

visitors. Today, we're talking
about bats, their role and

impact on Tennessee, and how we
can protect this critical

species. Before it's too late.

Daniel, I want to get straight
into it because we have a lot of

ground to cover in this episode.

Take us back to the beginning.

How did you start working with
bats? And when did you

officially become the Batman?

Daniel Istvanko: You know, my
career with bats was completely

on accident. Okay, just to back
up a little bit for that my

background before that. I grew
up fishing, which transitioned

into hunting with my dad. And
then that transitioned into why

don't not know about anything
else out here that I that I love

so much. Sure. So from there, I
went and got a degree with

wildlife. And after that pursued
my master's, and grad school

actually went, I just took the
first project I could get I

wanted to go to grad school
couldn't get a job, just kept

out of school. Sure. So I went
to study coil. Basically, the

funding got flushed down the
drain. And my roommate at the

time was studying bats. And he
kept saying, and I was making

fun of I was like, no, no, no
one cares about bats. I want to

study bad. Lo and behold, he
gave me some ideas and kind of

took me under his wing,
literally. And from there, it

just turned into a project which
turned into a passion. And now I

wouldn't change it for the
world.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And you were
the Graduate Student of the Year

at Arkansas State, right?

Correct. Yes. And your thesis
was on.

Daniel Istvanko: So I basically
studied differences in male and

female evening bats, which is a
force bat, it's present

throughout the eastern United
States. And I chose that bat

because no one studies them. And
they're pretty much everywhere.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah. And so
was there like an inflection

point that happened where you
were like, Oh, my gosh, I love

bats.

Daniel Istvanko: I think the
first bat I ever called I felt

that way. And honestly, a lot of
the interns and people that I've

mentored over the years the same
way, there's been very few who

have like, got to catch one and
hold one and it hasn't really

just fallen in love with them.

From that point on.

Kosta Yepifantsev: How do you
catch a bat? We're gonna have to

start there. Like that's
fascinating.

Daniel Istvanko: It depends on
the scenario, I guess the most

common way to do it is basically
what we call a mis net system.

And these can be I mean, any
length and height, but

generally, they're about 24 feet
tall, and will span them across

roadways, rivers, whatever. But
basically, it's thread like

nets. So in the bats are flying
around at night, they don't see

it, they fly into it, we just
come pluck them out and work

them up.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Amazing. And
I think a lot of people don't

know that bats kind of like run
the world. Right? So give us

some background into why you're
researching bats. And why should

the general public be paying
attention?

Daniel Istvanko: I think in
general bashes get a bad rap. I

mean, you know, growing up as a
kid, you always hear bats drink

blood baths are scary. Your
hair, they do all these things.

Most of them are myths, but that
in tandem with decades of

habitat destruction, let's talk
back in the 50s 60s and 70s, use

of chemicals, just disturbance
in caves, all these things that

we were doing and harming the
environment, bats really took a

huge hit, and their populations
declined to the point where, you

know, the US Fish and Wildlife
Service started listing species

as threatened and endangered.

And so that's where our first
batch got listed back in the

70s. So from there, the
importance was, hey, let's

research the bats that are rare.

And let's see if we can help the
conservation of the species for

the long run. Going forward
after that, things were looking

better for many species and then
the introduction of white nose

syndrome 2006. It's a fungal
pathogen that was brought here

from Europe, probably by a
caver.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So it was
brought in by a human being who

spunks

Daniel Istvanko: correct on it
on accident, okay, so what

happens is, it's basically just
a fungal Spore, can't see him,

it's just dust in the wind, and
it was probably on some of their

dirty gear that they brought
over. And as soon as it got in

our caves, it took off from
there. And so it actually

started in upstate New York. So
ever since the introduction of

whiteness Andrew him, you know,
we've lost over 90% of most of

the species that we have because
of that disease. So basically, a

wildlife crisis that we've an
orange generation have never

seen in North America. Unheard
of this is probably one of the

biggest wildlife diseases of our
time, honestly.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So you're
saying that we've lost 90% of

bats in North America?

Daniel Istvanko: Well, for most
of our species that either swarm

use caves, some part of the
year, yes, they've declined as

much as 90%. Now, there are some
forest species and things that

are not susceptible, because
they don't go into caves,

they're doing fine. But the
majority of our species have

suffered major declines.

Kosta Yepifantsev: What exactly
are bats doing, that makes them

so important, and that statistic
about losing 90% of them so

scary.

Daniel Istvanko: So for us in
Tennessee, it's simple. All of

our bats eat insects will pretty
much everything, they eat a lot

of beetles, moths, they, you
know, also you hear mosquitoes

things, but obviously, if it's a
bigger, larger moth, they're

going to take that over. But
opportunistic, they're aerial

Hawking these insects out of the
air at night, basically, you

know, the nighttime equivalent
of what birds do. So without

those bats, basically, we're
gonna have a lot more pest

problems, we're going to be more
irritated. And I, that's

probably in turn going to affect
a lot of different things from

just the vegetation to our
gardens to the amount of

pesticides we

Kosta Yepifantsev: use. Yeah.

And so I want to talk about
that, though, because there was

a statistic that I was reading
that it's estimated bats eat

enough pests to save more than
$1 billion per year in crop

damage and pesticide costs in
the United States corn industry

alone. If these bats aren't
protected, and if their habitats

are destroyed, what are the
implications?

Daniel Istvanko: I think the the
major implications would be, you

know, use of more pesticides and
higher prices on the front end,

not just what those pesticides
probably are doing to the

environment, but then you're
gonna see that trickle down to

the food weed is going to
continually to inflate could

create like a food crisis?

Absolutely. I think it could,
because what we don't know is

not only is it going to just
affect the insects, but what

else is it going to affect? You
know, when one keystone species

just all of a sudden kind of
disappears from the surface?

That's the real question is,
what is the next to take the

fall? What happens next?

Kosta Yepifantsev: When you
start your day, and you

encounter these problems? You
obviously know, like the big

picture, somebody like me, I
don't research wildlife at all,

nor do I really know much of
ecosystems, whether its

ecosystem decline, or what have
you. Do you ever wake up, kind

of disheartened, as you see all
of this development, and you

work in the upper Cumberland, so
we're like, booming. I mean, at

some point, we're not gonna be
able to find a patch of dirt

that somebody's not trying to
build something on. And I've

seen it in Germantown and
Nashville. And there's like one

lot that I run past in the
mornings, everything else has a

house on it. What happens? I
guess, essentially, how do you

feel confident that we're going
to preserve these ecosystems,

these caves? Keep that safe?

Daniel Istvanko: I'll just back
up to what you said about waking

up every day. I absolutely. This
career overall, is very

depressing, because the things
you love and care about, I'm

just seeing them disappear. In
my lifetime. I've seen that

myself. So that's disheartening.

On the other side, it's also
very rewarding because you're

you're trying to do something to
change the flow of things right

here. But yeah, that's always
been a struggle I felt like from

college on were like, wow, this
is truly the most depressing

field I could have gone into for
something I cared about so much.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Let's talk
about your work. What is your

typical day look like? What are
you researching and collecting

data on? And are you going into
caves? Like, every day,

Daniel Istvanko: there's no
typical day at work for me, I

learned that from the get go. It
does have its own kind of

patterns and cycles to it. It's
very seasonal dependent. Okay.

You know, along with the fun
stuff, which we'll talk about.

There's also the data management
side of it, the administrative,

there's all the other there's an
office day, every week, that

kind of fun stuff. So
seasonally, like caving season

starts for me pretty much in the
winter, sometimes December

through March, that's where I'm
going to be in caves, counting

bats and doing other things.

However, caving can be year
round, because also do other

endangered species surveys for
cave crayfish cave fish, our

state salamander is being
proposed to be listed right now.

So there's a lot of life under
the ground outside of bats that

we also do surveys for, for me,
I cave a lot more than my

counterparts just because of the
region. And I actually love it

too. So it's kind of fun. But
yeah, my job kind of flows with

whatever projects we're working
on. We do a lot of disease

sampling. We do a lot of
population monitoring for

threatened endangered species.

The last couple of projects
we've worked on have been

Hellbender propagation, we
released Hellbenders you know,

back in the middle test See,
I've worked with golden eagles.

We've worked with documenting
spotted skunks. We do a lot of

wildlife tracking. Pretty much
everything we're studying. We're

either doing disease or tracking
on it. We don't know where it's

going or what diseases it has.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I know the
episode is not about skunks, but

my dogs love skunks. Staci, my
red Doberman got sprayed

yesterday after they got out.

They get out all the time. Now,
I guess they just don't like

living with us. But anyway,
that's back to it. You said

disease monitoring. So I was
watching a 60 minutes episode

like two or three weeks ago.

They are capturing bats in
Uganda. And they're testing them

for Coronavirus. And so they're
trying to develop vaccines if

they identify a an unknown
Coronavirus so that it can kind

of get out in front of another
pandemic, as you were talking

earlier in the episode about the
stigma around bats, you know,

vampire stuff like that. How
often do you encounter people

who say bats equal COVID?

Daniel Istvanko: I felt like it
was an everyday event after

COVID especially working with
bats. You know, everybody was

looking at me like, Oh, don't do
that. And it just, it was like

any ground I had gained with
family and France was lost,

basically.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah. How are
you not scared, though, that if

you get bit by a bat, that you
may, you may develop some type

of virus that has no vaccine and
may cause serious illness.

Daniel Istvanko: It really just
the nature of my work, that's

completely possible. There's
really not something that I

haven't handled, that hasn't
been me, I've been bitten by

1000s of rats. Wow. The majority
of them, it's just a hard pinch

don't break the skins. There's a
few species that will leave

marks make you believe that the
worst thing is probably to worry

about his rabies. I mean, that
gets tied with bass a lot. But

any mammal species can be a
vector for rabies, you have a

better chance of getting it from
a stray cat, then you actually

do a bat. But it's possible that
a bat can have rabies. So you

always have to keep that tagline
on there, you know, rare but not

unheard of.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So do you
have any opinion on whether or

not COVID came from bats?

Daniel Istvanko: I don't have an
opinion, because I just I simply

don't know the facts. I've heard
that it jumped from maybe a

pangolin to a bat and all these
other stories and things like

that. The bottom line is the way
that bats can control their body

torpor and go in and out of deep
sleep, their immune systems can

be at a much higher lower
temperature than ours and their

bodies can be so they can
actually harbor a lot of

diseases that are not harmful to
them. However, they're harmful

to us. So yes, it's very
possible that getting bitter

handling means I could get sick
from something. In that

scenario, I'm assuming the bat
was eaten? I don't know. But the

reality of that it could have
been any species that can harbor

disease. And bats just again
seemed to take the fall.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Have you ever
been bitten by a bat? Oh, every

Daniel Istvanko: 1000s 1000s of
bats.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So the next
pandemic, I'm gonna give him

your number, and I'm gonna be
like, listen, I know patient

zero and I know where you can
find your vaccine for mass

production. You don't have to
even do clinical trials. I know

exactly who you need to call.

What's your craziest caving
story? Like, did you ever get a

call from somebody that says,
hey, I've got a cave and you get

down there? And it's like, Bruce
Wayne, you know, that massive

cave with a waterfall inside or
anything like that.

Daniel Istvanko: Okay, so I
guess I don't have one, but I

can tell you that from the caves
that I've been in Tennessee,

I've seen prehistoric Jaguar
tracks to Aboriginal footprints

to finding a human skull. I've
been in the deepest caves in

Tennessee. Wow, actually one
cave system in this part of

Tennessee that has a eight acre
room and it can fit the entire I

hear the Astrodome. So
basically, professional stadium

can fit inside the room that
you've dropped down into. And is

Kosta Yepifantsev: that like
here in the upper Cumberland?

Oh, yeah. Really Van Buren
County. So is this area just is

it more predominant in terms of
caves, then other parts of the

state or other parts of the
country,

Daniel Istvanko: different parts
of the country, you'd have to

look at a course map Missouri,
Arkansas, there's places that

have plenty of caves, Indiana,
other places, but we're kind of

in the epicenter of what people
call Tag, Tennessee, Alabama,

and Georgia. And that's where
you're going to find the

Cumberland Plateau. diversity of
different formations and a lot

of caves. So looking at
Tennessee, the density kind of

falls off as you go east and
west, but along the curve of

plateau is the highest density
all the way up and down North,

the South the state.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Amazing. I've
been to a few so I've been to

Underground Atlanta, Ruby Falls.

I think that's underground. That
was my face when I was a kid.

And no, I mean, just imagine the
person that discovered it like I

don't know, the background of
Ruby Falls, but like imagine

somebody you know, goes into a
cave and they find a massive

waterfall. I mean, right like
that's never happened to you,

right?

Daniel Istvanko: Well, I've been
in a time with beautiful

waterfalls and formations and
there's no shortage of beautiful

sites in there. But I've never
found an amazing when I most

caves I found were pretty horrid
and grungy. I always

Kosta Yepifantsev: want wonder
like what it would be like to

repel down into a cave. But
we're talking about bats. So

let's talk about our changing
planet. How is global warming

and climate change elevating the
danger to bats? Are the impacts

of these events reversible? And
should we be worried about the

collapse of cave systems?

Daniel Istvanko: In general, we
should be worried about climate

change and its effect on bats
less so on the effects of cave

systems. What we do know is that
cave systems seem to lag far

behind as far as what the
effects of climate change are.

So they will happen on a much
slower scale. However, all the

other species that depend on
using trees for all or some part

of their their life, those are
the ones that we have to worry

about. Because the climate
changes, are some areas going to

be more susceptible to extreme
weather, arid conditions or, you

know, just changing
environments. So we don't know

what that's going to do to the
landscape. And those bats.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah. And I
mean, if you think about that

ice storm in Monterey, like how
many trees went down because of

that storm, you know,

Daniel Istvanko: that actually
probably did some good for bed.

On the flip side, well, what's
not good for bats, I'll say this

is you got these pretty old age,
just even beautiful forests that

we see all over the plateau. We
want to see heterogeneity, we

want to see different ages of
stuff. So when something natural

like that happens, and it breaks
all these trees, you created

this whole forest of snags.

There's a ton of bad species
that depend on those snags for

maternity season or all of their
life. So by doing that,

essentially, you just made the
perfect bad habitat in a way

Kosta Yepifantsev: we'll learn.

So that's great fire does the

Daniel Istvanko: same thing.

That's what we try to mimic
nowadays, with with cutting

things. But historically, fire
and tornadoes and all these

things, I stammered, that's how
forest maintain heterogeneity.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah,
absolutely. That's a really

interesting perspective. And,
you know, there's controlled

burns that are happening, like
specifically in California and

the West Coast. And it's so
interesting, because we never

had to do those things in the
past, you know, but now, in my

opinion, because of climate
change, and because of extremely

dry conditions, I think that it
just Do you ever think that you

can go too far in terms of like
a fire that's way out of

control? Or do you think that
that's just the natural

progression of a forest?

Daniel Istvanko: Oh, absolutely.

There's different scales of
burns. Okay, that's a whole

nother subject. But basically,
when you run fire through

something, you don't want a huge
fuel load, like we saw in

Gatlinburg. Okay, you want it to
be a nice ground fire to

basically just provide some
nitrogen, and you'll see some

greenery if it's scoring the
trees, so it's way too hot and

too much fuel. So that's what we
want to avoid,

Kosta Yepifantsev: right?

Because there's a lot of people
that say, Well, climate change,

this is like the world's
natural, you know, way of

changing and evolving, right.

And so there's nothing to worry
about. But I mean, obviously,

from a professional like
yourself, no, massive wildfires

are not a good thing.

Daniel Istvanko: My whole point
with that is, is it changing

faster than the species and us
as well can adapt to those

changes? That's the real
question.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So aside from
habitat loss, how else can

climate change affect bats and
the bat population?

Daniel Istvanko: I think the
next thing following just a

decline in habitat would be
disease, you know, we're gonna

have species moving,
congregating, probably wiping

themselves out, I'm not talking
disease that would impose a

threat necessarily to us just
within themselves, we actually

have a disease in just about
every group of wildlife in

Tennessee that's causing major
declines. Why nose is just kind

of been the forefront of it, if
you will. We've got the same

thing going on with snakes here
in the upper Cumberland. The

same thing with salamanders and
things like that. There's one

actually an agent that if it
gets over here, it will wipe out

this country's herpetofauna for
sure, wipe out whatnot. So

basically, salamanders and frogs
and things like that the

equivalent of white nose for
those species, and it's in the

pet trade over in Asia and
certain salamanders and those

species are fine with it, but
it's the same scary thing we're

trying to prevent, right for the
human, but it's just, you know,

when's it gonna get here? Or is
it already here? And no one's

detect it?

Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah, for
sure. Wow. Okay. So, rabbit

hole, I

Daniel Istvanko: told you. Well,
no, no, I

Kosta Yepifantsev: mean, listen,
there's a there's a lot there,

though. There's a lot to unpack.

And I mean, if you think about
the next 10 years, and we have

development going, you know,
without stop no contingencies.

We're destroying habitats. We're
bringing different species of

animals together. At what point
do you think we should maybe

have like a national area of
preservation? Like should we

sort of annex certain areas of
the country currently so the

reason that I bring that up as I
was watching another episode of

60 minutes, and the Bill Gates
and Melinda Gates Foundation are

buying up massive swaths of
planes land in the middle West

and they're trying to bring
back, you know, bison and other

animals that were there, you
know, 200 years ago, should we

be doing the same thing in
Tennessee.

Daniel Istvanko: So we actually
do have a playbook for what

similar what you're talking
about is called Tennessee State

Wildlife action plan. And every
state has one RS is a huge book,

you can Google it. But
basically, it's going to break

down our state into resources,
yours, you all these things. And

it's going to assign certain
areas, what we call conservation

opportunity areas. For instance,
the closest one to here is the

one around Roaring River and
Blackburn fort. So those are

areas that basically meet the
criteria for development, they

have rare species, you know,
they're worth preserving. So

when lands come up for sale, and
those places, we work with

partners a lot of times to try
to acquire those lands. One of

the rewarding things of my jobs,
I've been a part of five or six

land acquisition projects, you
know, just say preserving land

forever and ever complements
like the 12,000 acre addition to

Skinner mountain just a few
years ago, okay, I've been

working on that since I started
with the agency. So a lot of

what I do is go out and find
rare things and try to save

lands that are for sale, which I
enjoy doing that you get to go

explore and look for things. So
our fundings a little different,

we don't have the money just to
buy up everything. But we are

always trying to acquire lands,
especially when they join ours,

or they're adding connectivity
to our plan.

Kosta Yepifantsev: How do
regular everyday citizens get

involved to help the bat
population to help your agency

to spread the word,

Daniel Istvanko: the bases, like
you just said, spread the word

educate people, in this part of
the world Cookeville we have so

many bad nuisance problems in
people's houses, they just ran

with water hoses or, or people
have caves and their yard. Some

of these caves have 1020 30,000
bathroom in the summer, there's

a couple caves in Cookeville
that have around that there's

numbers that you can go watch.

So just just meeting those
people making them care about

it, if they don't, there's a lot
of landowners we work with who,

you know, we're doing all the
wrong things. And we get in

there and tactfully try to say
no, hey, here's what you could

do and do that, and then get
them on board. So it's a case by

case scenario.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And we're
gonna switch gears just for a

second and sort of throw a wider
net. So if you have like snakes

or salamanders, like nests of
snakes, or if you have a cave in

your yard, you can call the TW
Ra. And you guys will come out

and at least like have a
discussion about what you guys

can do to maybe, I mean, here's
the thing, nobody wants like a

snake nest under their house,
right? Pretty much. Right? So

like, what do you do? Do you
call the TW era and you guys

say, let me move this snake nest
to to a more secure area and out

of your basement? Or, you know,
how does that how does that

work?

Daniel Istvanko: So this is one
of the parts of my job that I

really do not like because you
can't help most these people, we

get 1000 calls every month.

Okay? Anything you can imagine
from I saw this too, I found

this too. I want to know you
name, I sometimes get the K when

someone says I gotta cave in my
property, I want to know if

anything's in it, and I'll come
check it out. As far as removing

wildlife, we typically don't do
that. Basically, you have to get

an animal damage control
operator. It's a professional

exterminator that can handle
certain wildlife, okay, and

they'll come out and they'll
remove them from your house.

Otherwise, we that's all we
would do. We do it sometimes on

a case by case scenario, if I'm
coming through and there's let's

say, for one year, there is some
freetail bats and the

dermatologists office right now
from my office in Crossville. I

just went in there and got them
off the wall probably saved I'm

sure quite a bit of money. Wow.

But for the most part, we don't
do that if it's an injured one.

And officer somebody can come
pick it up and take it to a

rehabber. But there's often more
calls than can be address.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So have you
ever run across like a extremely

rare and unique species of
animal while you're not just in

case but just doing your job in
general? Like have you ever come

across like something that you
would consider to be like a snow

leopard, it's impossible to see.

Daniel Istvanko: Nothing for me
that's necessarily exotic, and

you wouldn't expect to see it,
although that is common also in

the field isn't for releasing
exotic pets. But as far as what

I've done for the agency, in the
most part was to go and find

rare things. The primary part of
my job is to document those rare

species. And from there, it's
like then we do research and we

do disease, then we do all these
other things. But the very basic

premise of it is what do we have
and where is it? Every year I

make what I consider an exciting
fine whether it's you know, the

expansion of some species range
into a county we didn't know

they existed or a colony of bats
that no one's ever found. Not

that the K was unknown. Just no
one knew those bats were there.

So I've I found some things for
me that were amazing. I don't

know how most people feel about
them. But

Kosta Yepifantsev: so when you
say that people are releasing

exotic animals, like what type
of exotic animals are your staff

running into?

Daniel Istvanko: There's some
stories from the 90s Where

people basically had home zoos
would let all these exotic big

cats bears things go and, and
they were having to go out and

shoot song tranquilize them. And
you know when people call and

say I saw this or I saw that I
don't immediately discredit

them. A lot of times it's not
what they say. However, there's

so many scenarios where there
was a came in that was found

here or there was, you know, an
albino rattlesnake at Taco Bell,

or Wow, it's possible so I don't
write it off. Now a being a wild

animal, if it's, you know, it's
like a cheetah or something, you

know, but somebody definitely
could have set it free. I mean,

think about how much food it
would take to feed an animal

that size. That's why they end
up landing. Oh,

Kosta Yepifantsev: yeah,
exactly. Are there bears in the

upper Cumberland? There are
really and so is that a recent

thing because I was always told
that there was bears in the

Smoky Mountains, but there
wasn't any bears here.

Daniel Istvanko: One of our
closest bears zones would be Big

South fort Pickett State Forest
Fentress County into Kentucky.

And that connects all the way up
over with North Cumberland. So

basically, they've been
expanding the range for years

and years, and they do yearly
come through the upper

Cumberland Cookeville. Seems
like we always have one that

gets hit on 111 or right. You
know, I had one on one of my

trail cameras in Jackson County
that I presume was a mom with

cubs most time it's a transient
male, that's what you're seeing,

okay, he's leaving his home
range getting away from the

other males. And that's the ones
that turn into nuisance issues.

Kosta Yepifantsev: When was the
first sighting I don't know if

you know off the top of your
head, but when was like the

first sighting of bigs out of a
bear and think Southfork,

Daniel Istvanko: it's funny you
asked because I was just at a

meeting where the bear biologist
gave a presentation all this and

I can't remember, but he has a
map. And I think you can get

online and actually put your
observations in but it'll show

how they've expanded across the
state because there's some all

the way into like Wilson County,
really in places in south of

White County now. So I'd say
it's extremely rare to see one

even up in the part where you
can have them not like the

Smokies, but they're definitely
out there.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Let's talk
about local stuff. Okay, how are

the bats doing here locally.

Daniel Istvanko: So it's the
opposite of what you think some

of our endangered species right
now are doing quite well like

are gray bats. However, a lot of
the other species have pretty

much completely disappeared. For
instance, there's one called the

northern long eared bat that's
been federally threatened for

the last several years now, and
it should be getting upgraded to

federally endangered soon. But
anyway, when I was in graduate

school, I can catch 60 to 100 of
those a night. We call it so

many. We didn't even work them
all up. We're just worried about

letting them go. We didn't want
them to die. Since I've been in

Tennessee and came over here.

2015. I've only seen 12. Wow.

That's why affirmed probably
seeing over 500 In two years to

12 in the last eight years.

Yeah.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So are there
any extinct species of bats

Daniel Istvanko: throughout the
world? Absolutely. We're still

holding on to all the species
that we've known have since been

kept records pretty much.

However, in some of the case
systems, it's absolutely

possible to find some skeletal
remains of species that may not

Kosta Yepifantsev: be around.

Yeah, absolutely. So before we
wrap up, I just want to and we

touched on this briefly earlier
about how you know, bats eat

pests, and that crops could be
affected. If this white nose

virus continues to spread, and
we continue to destroy habitats,

what's the end game for our
ability to eat, to survive? The

how susceptible we will be to
diseases? I mean, have you ever

pondered on that?

Daniel Istvanko: Oh, all the
time. But I think the most

likely scenario would be, let's
say some of our bats do

disappear in the northern
longer, they go extinct. I feel

like as long as we can still
maintain some of these other bat

species, they're going to fill
that niche, there's going to be

more of those bats, we will have
less diversity in the long run.

So I think we'll maintain and we
won't see that catastrophic

Fallout, hopefully. So the end
game here would be to basically

hold on to what we have, and let
it go back to being better for

future generations. So I think
what we're seeing right now is

we're still seeing hard declines
for some species, but for other

species, almost maybe a plateau
at the bottom. And so if we can

take away all those other
additive factors, disturbance

habitat, and we can basically
give them one less thing to

worry about, maybe we'll see
those populations rebound now

won't be in our lifetimes, and
probably not the next

generation, but maybe by the
next generation, things will be

different. You know, this
happened in Europe, and likely

the populations, they reflect
what we'll never know. So this

has played out before in time,
but he's just holding on to what

we had, right? You know, because
we're at the point where we can

completely erase it from, you
know, the planet if we're not

careful.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I mean, I was
hearing some experts discuss how

climate change is going to
affect wildlife and I mean

wildlife just in general terms,
and they say that we in 25

years, will eliminate 90% of our
wildlife in the world, which is

insanity. Right? And so, I am
optimistic like you that we will

not get there and we will say
You've all of the different

species. But I have a kind of a
personal question that I wanted

to ask you. So we bought this
house in Cookeville. And we were

doing some landscaping and we
found a tunnel. And when I say

tunnel, the landscapers called
me and they threw a rake down

there, and it just swallowed
that thing up. And I'm kind of

like a little kid, you know, I'm
like, Well, how far does it go?

Where does it go? That's how you
get hooked. Yeah, exactly. So

they said, listen, we're not
going to find out because as we

start digging this trench to
wherever it leads, that may turn

into something much larger than
what you want to deal with. So

long story short, they put in,
they put some gravel and they

fill it up. Now, let's just say
that this thing leads to like,

Bruce Wayne's cabin, and the bat
flies into my house, what do I

do to get it out? Because I
don't want to kill it. And I

don't want to hurt it. Do I call
you or the TW Ra? How do you if

a bat flies into your house?

What do you do?

Daniel Istvanko: So that
scenario happens all the time.

And usually people immediately
call us, nine times out of 10,

someone's going to direct you
towards one of those animal

damage people that will kind of
get it. But the one thing I can

say if it's just that scenario,
there's one it's sitting on your

couch, it's not flying around
the room and causing problems.

Walk up to it, put some very big
gloves on leather. don't handle

this at all. Just put a shoe box
over something stupid and don't

let it outside. Okay, you can
put it on next to a tree or a

wall so it can climb up and then
it'll drop and fly away. Or

using NET just use anything
other than your hands. Don't

touch it. Don't let it get any
of its, you know body fluids in

your ears, eyes, nose or mouth
because that's how you can track

rabies. So basically, just put
some gloves on, get it out of

the house. If you're wearing
really thick leather gloves.

Even our biggest big brown bats
are probably not going to bite

through that. And now they're
gonna pinch you pretty good, but

that's the best scenario because
someone's gonna come charge you

a ton of money to come to your
house and get that one bad. I'm

in the wrong field. I think

Kosta Yepifantsev: I think you
are Yeah, I was gonna say I am

afraid of all reptiles. I am not
really a big fan of insects. I

am lukewarm towards mammals.

Bats, bro. If I had a bat
sitting on my couch, just

chillin. Now that room would be
closed off of Intel. That bad is

gone. Nobody's walking into that
room. And I have I have a guy

that helps me around the house
name's Patrick. I might call

Patrick and be like, Hey, man,
he's from Macon County. So he

probably figured out you know,
but yeah,

Daniel Istvanko: if you see what
I'm close, I'll give you this.

They are very cute. And I always
refer to them as Sky kittens

because that's what they are.

They're basically just little
kittens with wings. But I don't

know how anyone can see one and
hated

Kosta Yepifantsev: Morgan this
the name of the sub so the sky

kittens. Alright, so we always
like to end the show on a high

note. Who is someone except for
bats that make you better when

you're together?

Daniel Istvanko: Oh, that's
definitely my wife Hannah for

sure. She is basically the
column to my story, my sanity.

So you know I come home from
being depressed about all these

things right there. She just
cares to listen about all of it.

Except birds. She hates birds.

So

Morgan Franklin: Thank you for
joining us on this episode of

Better Together with Kosta
Yepifantsev. If you've enjoyed

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friend! Better Together with
Kosta Yepifantsev is a Kosta

Yepifantsev Production. Today's
episode was written and produced

by Morgan Franklin post
production mixing and editing by

Mike Franklin. Want to know more
about Kosta? Visit us at

kostayepifantsev.com. We're
better together.