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Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
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Speaker 1:That's what Textron Aviation owner support is about. The people who know these aircraft, a massive service network, twenty four seven parts, upgrades, and programs that make ownership easy. It's an exceptional amount of capability behind me because at the end of the day, I own an aircraft for the life it lets me live. It's incredible to see how much Textron Aviation is invested in that too. That's what owner support means, having the people who built your aircraft there for everything that comes next.
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Speaker 1:Visit the website. See how much you could save today by switching to a VEMCO. Fly with Garmin Avionics, then grab your mobile device and make the Garmin Pilot app your cockpit companion. Get advanced functions you'll use before, during, and after every flight, including updating your aircraft's databases and logging engine data, plan, file, fly, log with Garmin Pilot. Aviation, what is going on?
Speaker 1:And welcome back to the Pilot to Pilot podcast. My name is Justin Sims, and I am your host. Today's episode is with Carson Stilson. Carson is a contributor for volume one of the magazine where we talk about the accidental aircraft builder. Now if this podcast is something you like, you can also read the print form of this podcast, which is gonna be in volume one of the magazine.
Speaker 1:While supplies last, there's only a limited amount of those left. You go to pilotthepilothq.com/mag, scroll down, you'll see volume one print only, and you can buy that. But, anyways, when we talk about building an aircraft, it's something that I'm not sure I could ever do, you know, unless I did the Bear Hawk five and I did their assist program. Bear Hawk, if you're listening, let's do it. Maybe?
Speaker 1:That'd be cool. But, yeah, Carson has been building aircraft for what seems like forever, but it's just been a couple years. He's currently giving away an airplane he is building, and he's also gonna pay for your PPL, which the whole thing is mind boggling. But Carson, I love it, man. I love what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Keep it up. This is amazing. I hope you all enjoy this podcast. If you do, go follow Carson on Wereworthy. He has awesome stuff, whether it's building an airplane, just humor that is just hilarious, and also has some cool bags and shirts and hats.
Speaker 1:He's coming out with everything. It's it's pretty crazy. But aviation, I hope you're having a great day. Without any further ado, here's Carson Stilson on the Pilot the Pilot podcast.
Speaker 2:No. This is exciting, man. Thanks for having me on here. This is a fun kickoff to something that I think will be really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let's hope so, you know. My wife would appreciate because I'm wasting so much time in doing this. So she'd probably appreciate it if something comes with this. But nonetheless, we just talk for another twenty, thirty minutes and hopefully someone out there is like, hey, Zebes are cool, let me buy one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. I... You know, I'm trying to make sure they look a little cool. They Yeah.
Speaker 2:They still get a lot of teasing because of, you know, their unique looks. But they're incredible airplanes.
Speaker 1:You know what? There's something about being unique. It helps you stick out, helps you stand out. Although I will say, the Bearhawk, I talked with Aaron and Paul, their Bearhawk's pretty sick too. So you got some competition for cool and unique airplanes.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. No. The Bearhawk definitely kind of fits that traditional Yeah. Grid a little bit more and man, it's a big big capable airplane. I...
Speaker 2:Mine mine lands a little shorter though.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I would hope so. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, Carson, you are here for exactly who said you built this.
Speaker 1:You built a Zenith And man, let's get into it. First of all, I wanna talk about is why the Zenith in the first place. I'm sure, you know, you look at home built airplanes, first thing people see is usually fans or some sort of other iteration, bigger airplane company that I've heard of, which I never heard of a Zenith till I saw your page. But talk talk me through about how you even found Zenith in the first place.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I owned a Rand's s 20 Raven. In fact, I still have it. It's got the metal wing. It's it's a back country airplane.
Speaker 2:It was built by another individual who had it built by the... Believe it's Rocky Mountain kit builders. They they essentially built a lot of Rand's aircraft. I flew that plane for years, fell in love with it, thought it was awesome, but I kind of wanted something that was custom to me. It was not on my lifetime bingo card to build an airplane in my thirties.
Speaker 2:It was never my intention, but you know as I was flying and I was like, I really think I could do something cool and I found Zenith Aircraft, you know, I think I... My first discovery of them was another builder, the kit plane enthusiast, Mark Penson Stadler, he got a super duty kit and started building it and I started watching his videos and man, I was like, this thing is so cool, like looking at the match hole drill process, know, there's just so much to it that made this kit appealing. The whole... The fact that I could build it in, you know, five hundred to a thousand hours, it's... It just seemed like a giant Lego set.
Speaker 2:And that was kind of where I was like, okay, I have enough capability and construction skill to to maybe make all of this happen and so I started researching more, looking into Zenith, found that they had been around, you know, since the nineties. In fact, Chris Heinz, the guy who more or less came up with all these designs had been designing airplanes for years and years before that. They became very well known. They were known for being a very strange looking aircraft, but they were designed more of like form is function. They are made to do one thing really well and that's to take off and land in a very short distance and they're fun airplanes to fly.
Speaker 2:So that was just really appealing to me and a lot of people were like, why did you not build a tail dragger? Well, a, if you look at any tail dragger kits right now, they are a fortune. I mean, I'm not going to call out names but when you're crafting a cup for $600,000 I think that's insane to me. Yeah. My airplane, it's...
Speaker 2:You know, you can buy the kit for just just about $5,055,000 dollars for the kit and then you could be out the door with my kit for about 100 and that's that's for the largest Zenith. If you build a seven zero one, you could have one flying for 60 to $70,000 which is very attainable. So between the cost, the customization capability, the ease of building and then, you know, being able to still play in the backcountry but not pay for tailwheel or ground loop insurance really. I don't have to worry about a ground loop and that was a big factor for me.
Speaker 1:You know, I didn't really think about that. I've never flown a tailwheel before and I'm like looking at some airplanes like, I really like Stinson's right now and just that they're old, they're really cool, like feel I there's a lot of history there. So I'm like, oh, maybe a Stinson, never flown before. So I didn't even think about a ground loop insurance. So that's one thing now I gotta think about as well.
Speaker 1:It's like, alright, do I just go with a a typical tricycle gear now or... Yeah. Now now you got me all thinking, man. You threw me all off. I had a plan.
Speaker 1:I had a plan, man.
Speaker 2:I mean, it like people fly and I'm I'm not like, I love flying my tailwheel aircraft. I'm a tailwheel endorsed pilot. I can fly tailwheel, but it's just something that's always in the back of your head is that if I'm in the backcountry and I hit a rock or do something strange and I end up outside of that realm of where my airplane's allowed to be and all of a sudden physics takes over and my tailspins and I've bent my wing, I'm in the middle of nowhere. I never have to think about that with my Zenith. Always wants to go straight when I landed on the ground.
Speaker 2:And so that is very convenient. Yes, there are some benefits to having a tailwheel aircraft. Having that propeller up a little bit higher, but at the same time Zenith aircraft, if you look at the weird tail, my my airplane is designed to go back like a tailwheel aircraft. I can keep that nose off longer. So there are...
Speaker 2:I can go 99% of the places these tailwheel guys are going. So I'm, you know, I'm very happy with what has come out of my airplane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. I mean, it looks great. I mean, I I would imagine the feedback's been great and it is cool to see something other than a tail wheel doing some cool background stuff. You know, everyone watches Trent Palmer, they all see him do this really cool stuff and it's like, hey, man, let's get some tricycle gear out there as well. So it looks great, dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How long did it go from actually, like, saying, like, alright, I want this to actually purchasing it? Because you know a lot of people are like, alright, cool. This is cool. I want this and they sit on it for years And they're like, oh, I'm gonna build this.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna build this. I'm gonna build this. But what was kind of your timeline from deciding and actually going through with the purchase?
Speaker 2:It was about a year of time. I reached out to Zenith in 2021, I wanna say. And we just kind of started a conversation. I started talking with Sebastian, the the CEO and founder of Zenith Aircraft and kind of getting to know their team and then in 2022, I went to the Rudder workshop which that is like Zenith hosts this awesome workshop that you can go, it's like 350 to $400 depending on the rudder you're building. You spend two days at their factory in Mexico, Missouri or in different places around the the nation where they do them periodically.
Speaker 2:You you learn everything about building an airplane, you build the rudder, you get to keep it in the end and it's kind of like the first piece and you're you're doing all of it with with the team there to kind of help guide you through it and teach you the process. So I did that in September and I was like this, I'm I'm doing it. And so I pulled the trigger and the kit was there like three months later. So it was was a pretty fast process for me. I mean, I spent a year, like I said, researching and thinking about it, but once I pulled that trigger, like things happened really quick, which I've noticed a lot of other kit manufacturers are, you know, now taking years to to get a kit out to you.
Speaker 2:Mean, you're you're like like I'm seeing people sell their spots in line because it's it's you know, turning into a multi year process whereas like a Zenith kit, you're getting it in like six months or less. So it's been really really nice.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Eunice. Yeah. How do you convince the wife to be okay with this? Because that's another kind of big hurdle, right? Like I mean, a lot of guys wanna do...
Speaker 1:A lot of girls too that build airplanes or wanna be in aviation convincing their spouse as well, but it's... You gotta be pretty convincing. So what'd you pull?
Speaker 2:You know, I... In the beginning, I really tried hard to like get up early and have it not affect our daily schedule and stuff. Yeah. It still definitely did. Honestly, I I did it in kind of like my...
Speaker 2:It was weird when I started the prod... Project, I was still working a full time job and so I I had to either wake up early or stay up late to work on the plane or do it on weekends and then I was filming that content at the same time which made it challenging. But, you know, I just I just tried to find the best time to do it. It was a lot easier to draw her into it once we started posting content about it and it started performing well. Then she was like, okay, you know, this is also potentially a revenue stream and, you know, she saw the had the faith in it.
Speaker 2:That said, I don't know if I I recommend building an airplane in your thirties if you have a wife and kids and want to have a life outside of doing that. It is very challenging. And doing it in two and a half years was a a big effort. But yeah, there at the end it was a little more challenging definitely not, you know, just having to rely on her to take care of kids and work. She also works full time, she busts her butt.
Speaker 2:And so the last several months as I was putting like a lot of eighteen hour days in, I just had to, we had to put our head down and know that it was, you know, there was an end in sight.
Speaker 1:Why didn't you choose a Builder Assist program?
Speaker 2:You know, that's a good question. I think if I do another build, I definitely would look into Builder Assist. This one I just really, I knew that it was possible to do it myself. I had help, I had you know some friends that would come in and help me. Had a really great friend, his name is Tiva who in the last six months, he came and put like probably two hundred hours into the plane with me, just showed up and made it happen.
Speaker 2:And I actually because of that I was like, you're... You've earned a flight the whole trip to Oshkosh to come hang out for the the couple weeks and you know that was an amazing experience. He became a really great friend during that time. And then I also had another team, Zion Air Motive who they actually helped me do like the engine and avionics just because I was not super confident in those things. Building the airframe was not a big challenge for me, but I knew that I was gonna want some help with my engine and avionics.
Speaker 2:So I did have some help. Granted, it was probably like 10% of the entire project was was with help, maybe 15. The rest was all just me. I really would if if someone wants to get that experience of building but not necessarily have to dedicate their whole life to it, builder assist is amazing. I don't look down on anybody who does it because you really are making yourself a safer pilot, learning that process, learning, you know, good portions of building your airplane and how it works, but you're not, you know, relying entirely on your skill set to make a flying aircraft.
Speaker 2:It is it is more dangerous to do it the way I did.
Speaker 1:Dude, yeah. I mean, I can't even... I can barely trust myself putting together IKEA furniture. I remember when my kid was born, my wife's like, alright, here's a crib, here's some shelves, here's this from IKEA. And I'm like, what?
Speaker 1:Like, that doesn't make sense. But at least you you had the instruction manual. Right? You have videos to go look at. When you're building a plane, is this something similar?
Speaker 1:Like the Zenith, scan this QR code for step five and here's a video of us riveting the airplane or wiring this or is it kind of like, alright, wire the airplane and you got two wires and you're like, wired.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They have... So to an extent they have instructions. They have instructions for literally the entire airframe itself. They had some loose instructions for the firewall forward portion of the build as well.
Speaker 2:But like the actual build is pretty... I like the instructions for the Super Duty. They have more or less a giant sheet of paper that shows you step by step the plans and then they have a guide that says, okay, do this, do this, do this, wait to do this until after you've done this.
Speaker 1:Got
Speaker 2:it. So they have that. Then they also have three d drawings. I usually pull those up a lot and I can spin around the plane and I can make parts disappear and see where the holes line up and everything. So there was some pretty unique stuff.
Speaker 2:That said, there are some parts that are definitely a little aged. I mean it's a thirty plus year old company, so some some things were like, we'll take the the schematic from this plane that we designed back then because it's pretty close to this one. So there are some things that I think could use some improvement. But overall, it was a it was a good build process. I really did enjoy it.
Speaker 2:You know, I I think that it... If if I were to do it all again, I I think that now I've just, you know, more confident, more comfortable, but I think they do a pretty good job that anybody even if you're not an experienced builder could pick the the plans up and if you have some capability of putting something together, you're gonna be able to build a plane.
Speaker 1:Was the hardest part just starting the build? Because, know, like, I imagine when all the pieces and all the boxes show up, you're just like, you're excited. Right? And then you open the instructions and you're like, oh crap. Like, you have to like, I'm actually gonna do this.
Speaker 1:What's the hardest part? Just, you know, putting the first part together, you know, riveting it or like just the very, very... I keep saying riveting it like it's that's all you do. But in my mind...
Speaker 2:You do a lot of rivets. There's about 10,000.
Speaker 1:So there we go. We got 10,000. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of rivets. Yeah. I would actually say that the the starting was easy. That was Okay. You're you're the most motivated at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? The kit just showed up. You're like, okay, I'm gonna dedicate x amount of hours. I'm gonna do stuff. The lulls in the build were...
Speaker 2:Those were the most challenging parts. You know, you get to a point where you're like, oh, I've got this, I've got to solve this thing and I I, you know, I honestly I spent so much more time looking at that airplane and deciding how to solve a problem than I ever thought I would. I would say a hundred hours of that build was just sitting and staring at it and going, okay, I have this part and this part, I need to solve how I wanna put those together or like I need to find how I'm gonna approach this this problem and those become really challenging hours because you're not you're not seeing a lot of progress
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And there are times where it's like, oh my god, I put the landing gear on, it's coming off the bench and all of a sudden that that those those endorphins and the dopamine hits and that's when it's exciting again. But then there's the, you know, they don't talk about the thirty hours it took to get there and you're like, know, feel like you're in a slog just trying to get through some challenging points. So there's... It's a roller coaster. The whole build is a roller coaster and I, you know, I really encourage people like if you're going to build, you know, try to do something every day or try to really keep your hands on it because it just becomes harder and harder as time goes on to keep that motivation up.
Speaker 2:So that would probably be the the hardest part. And then of course the last 10% was a... It is a lot. Yeah. Because they say there's this joke that there's 90% done, 90% to go.
Speaker 2:And I I was like, oh that's funny, know, people are just saying that no, it is a 100% true. It is the wiring, the final assembly, making everything connect and work and then you know, just hoping that it all comes together without having to trim off pieces or adjust things or you know, what other things you come into that last six months which with airframe was done Yeah. Was a humongous effort. And, you know, it all pays off in the end, but, you know, be ready for that.
Speaker 1:Dang. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think you said you probably hear the 90% done, 90% to go, you're probably like, funny guys, like, obviously, there's gonna be a time where like I'm done or like it's almost done. But even when we first got on the call, were like, oh, dude, mean, I'm just got done making some adjustments to my airplane. It sounds like the build's never done almost.
Speaker 1:It's almost like, oh, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, I gotta do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and, you know, I... This is me making those choices. A lot of my friends who built planes, you they built their plane and it's done. You know, they're they're happy with it.
Speaker 2:I made some adjustments on my... You know, I I put a much larger engine on my plane. My plane has a Lycoming IO three ninety. I needed a reliable engine. I'm flying in Utah's backcountry.
Speaker 2:I wanted it to have reliability and I trust no engine more than a Lycoming when it comes to that factor. And the fact it's the most proven engine like the Lycoming... The three sixty which the three ninety is based off of, I believe is the most like proven airplane engine in existence. It's just flying on a huge amount of aircraft. But I wanted a little more power because I have a lot of high density altitude areas where I live.
Speaker 2:In fact, I have property just north of me at 7,400 feet. Density altitude is typically 96 to 10,000 plus. And so, yeah, you're you're a massive ground roll. I'm getting usually 55 to 60% power at that altitude. Wow.
Speaker 2:And so having two fifteen horse means that I still have, you know, a 130 ish, 140 horse when I'm taking off up at that altitude. So I wanted power and I put an engine on my plane that has never been put on a zenith before. It does not... There's no flying zeniths that have a three ninety and so because of that I had to, you know, I've had to make modifications and I found things that I wanna tweak and, you know, things that other builders found for other engines early on. I'm the one kind of pioneering that and discovering that.
Speaker 2:So I have modifications I wanna make and this, you know, this has turned into... I I just barely put a new exhaust on my plane, a veteran exhaust because it's just... They make amazing exhausts. They put them on like all the RV fourteens and stuff and so modifications there and then now I'm like finding some cooling things that I want to change. So it's turning into a maybe a whole new firewall forward like a new cowling, a carbon fiber cowling to reduce weight off my nose.
Speaker 2:I have the Hartzell Constant Speed, the 80 inch Trailblazer on it which amazing propeller, but I have a very heavy nose just because of the way the Zenith is designed so I'm like looking at potential ways to reduce weight there which fortunately, you know, it is a very lightweight prop, it's fully composite which is great. And the the three ninety does take advantage of that. I probably have the fastest super duty which is hilarious to say, you know, Zenith that can go a 120 miles an hour that is kind of unheard of for a super duty. I'm going faster than some of their cruiser variants. Oh, no.
Speaker 2:So it's you know, it's a really cool plane, but I'm just like, okay, I've done this, this is cool, how do I solve this, you know, and I'm just kind of finding that perfect plane for me.
Speaker 1:What what do they think about that? When when you bring this to them, when you told them what you wanna do, are they like, oh heck yeah, dude, do it, do it, it. Or they're like, woah, woah, now you're building like a whole new category for us. You're building something that we didn't even think we could do. Obviously, you're kind of pushing the limits and seeing what you can do and what you can put on it.
Speaker 1:I would imagine there might be some excitement on their side to be like, alright, well we can actually keep improving this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Hats off to Zenith in this part. They have created an exceptional canvas to make any airplane you want. I love that they're non biased. I love that they won't say, hey, don't get this engine, don't do that.
Speaker 2:They've made a really cool blank canvas that you can do anything you want with. I love that every builder when I go to the Zenith Homecoming, there's so many, they're flying tons of different engines. I think that's so cool. There's going to be different things that fit every person, different avionic styles. I've seen people make massive changes to their control configuration.
Speaker 2:Just... There... People are truly experimenting with these aircraft and you know it's it's really an awesome platform to do so and Zenith loves and supports that. Like they haven't pushed into being like airplane manufacturers, they really love that they are building kits people can build themselves. I love that about Zenith.
Speaker 2:They've been as supportive as they can be, you know, they also are like, hey, I can't, we've never done that so we can't really help you with this but you know, we can't wait to see how it turns out.
Speaker 1:Good luck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good luck, exactly. But you know, they've been they've been really exceptional working with me on certain parts of it and finding the best way to, you know, solve problems.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What's up, guys? Justin here. You've been crushing it in the cockpit for years, but open enrollment, that's where the... Even the best pilots struggle.
Speaker 1:That's why I'm inviting you to an exclusive webinar from the experts at Alworth because, you know, as a pilot, your benefits are more complex than most people can even imagine, and most advisers just don't understand your unique situation. This one of a kind webinar puts three airline benefit experts in the hot seat to answer the toughest questions you need to be ask during open enrollment. Questions and answers that could save you thousands every year. Believe me, this webinar is worth your time. The hot seat is completely on demand, so you can watch it whenever and wherever you are.
Speaker 1:Just register today at allworthairline.com/justin to get started. What... Like, not what. What... Was there kind of a moment you're in this build and you're just kinda like, I don't know if I can do this anymore.
Speaker 1:Like, is just too overwhelming, too much. Do you ever get a time where you're just like, I'm just gonna buy whatever airplane it is and write this off or
Speaker 2:I mean, I know you love talking about the fact that I threw away half my airplane.
Speaker 1:I didn't bring it up. Didn't bring up.
Speaker 2:I know you didn't bring it up. I... I'm I'm totally fine to admit it because I, you know, I made a ton of mistakes on this plane. Yeah. That's just part of building an airplane.
Speaker 2:I spent thousands of dollars between shipping and parts of just little things that I'm like, you know, I I could have done that better or I I need to replace that part because I drilled this in the wrong spot. You know, I probably could have found a way to solve certain things, but when I threw away half my airplane, that was probably the big one. Zenith shipped me the box, here's just the the rough story of it. They shipped me the box and for some reason the bottom didn't get marked that there were skins underneath the floor skin and it looked, I swear to you, identical to the floor of this cardboard box. It was empty.
Speaker 2:We had pulled it all out, we looked over everything, we did not see that that bottom floor needed to be removed. Now, every time I go to the Zenith factory I laugh because I go to their boxes and they are very clearly marked now. Like, they they realized they made a mistake. I made a mistake. They covered the cost of the new skins.
Speaker 2:I just had
Speaker 1:to make
Speaker 2:shipping. So it was a it was a, you know, it really hurt. Man, that was a rough day. But we were trying to be really... Keep things clean on the, you know, getting stuff into the shop.
Speaker 2:We're like, okay, we got the box, we got everything out. Let's go throw the box away now so we have space to start organizing stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, we just threw it away immediately. And there you go. Half the half the skins for the aircraft were gone. But luckily, we we got all the new skins. It worked out in the end.
Speaker 2:But that was definitely one of the lowest, probably the lowest part of the build and it was like a month in. Like, it was like a couple weeks in. It was it was rough. It was really rough for a start. But...
Speaker 1:So you documented all that. Right? Like, you've documented this whole thing. Is it on camera of you finding out that this happened?
Speaker 2:Me finding out was not on camera. That was... Man, it was rough. I I wish it was just because it was like, I just remember sitting in my car and it was raining and it doesn't rain in Saint George. Was like, this is symbolism right here.
Speaker 2:It's just like Gotcha. Just like deep despair of like, I just threw away like $10,000 worth of skins, you know. Like this was it was super, super frustrating and disappointing. But you know, I got the new skins, I picked myself back up and I was like, know, this is the content hadn't been doing as well as it was, I'm sure I would have had a much harder time finishing the plane in the time frame I did. Filming it, getting just such an amazing reception from people saying, wow, this is so cool.
Speaker 2:That was a humongous motivator just to be able to keep going. So I was like, I can't wait to start flying this thing too, but this is just... It's so fun seeing the reaction of people. So that was, I mean, honestly, people, the fans really were a big driver for me getting it done.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's good, man. I'm glad that that the content was doing well enough to one, sell your wife on it, and to two, to keep you going on big things.
Speaker 2:If the content wasn't performing, I probably would still have an airplane in a box right now.
Speaker 1:Hey, whatever motivates you, whatever gets you past the finish line and makes this plane available to fly to Oshkosh. And talking about flying to Oshkosh, you have to have the FAA come out and kinda just give you the stamp of approval. Right? Be like, boom, you're good to go. Here's your paper, go fly it and good luck.
Speaker 1:What were the feelings of, you know, one, having this plane that's in front of you that you think can go fly. And two, the nerves of having some person you've really never met before that holds all your dreams. Kinda like a check card, right? They hold all your dreams in their hand and they can just come shattering down in front of you really fast. Just talk about that experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was a stressful day. It was a really it was a really stressful day because we were on a tight time crunch,
Speaker 1:you know, we were...
Speaker 2:I had two weeks to get the plane done, test flown, flown to go get touched up and paint and then taken to Oshkosh. It was a it was a very tight schedule. But we, you know, we... I had I kind of had like a village behind me, just a bunch of friends who were like, how can we show up and help? Like there were lots of little things that still needed to be done and tidied up and gotten ready.
Speaker 2:Gary, the the DAR who showed up, he was an amazing... He was a great guy. Super patient and flexible. We were actually making one modification of the plane when he showed up which is I do not recommend. This is very stupid to do because if you show up and a a DAR sees that you're, you know, you're still doing stuff on the plane immediately they're like, okay, I need to scrutinize things more because they're, you know.
Speaker 2:But he was like, okay. I I was like, they just need like ten minutes to... We were just making a... I think it was just an adjustment to the the flap motor was not communicating with the the Garmin or something like that. And so they just needed to go in and make some adjustments there.
Speaker 2:And I was like, do do you mind if we just do some paperwork real quick? And he's like, yeah, absolutely. We did all the paperwork, we went over the log books and everything like that. He was great. And then by the time we came out, the plane is ready to go.
Speaker 2:He freaking loved it. He was like, I can't wait to see it now at Oshkosh. He'd never heard of the build or anything Yeah. Which was really fun. And it was a...
Speaker 2:It was an exciting moment, but I I... You know, the plane looked immaculate. It looked amazing. Everything went great. The other thing is I hadn't done a taxi test and I I I took another risk by saying, hey, you want to just hop in and we'll just do the taxi test together?
Speaker 2:And he's like, sure. Which was kind of, again, in hindsight, kinda stupid because if there was something wrong, he would have to probably fail me or Yeah. Say, hey, let's fix that. But the taxi test went great, and I had never taxied the plane. I'd never moved the airplane with the engine going, And we just did it and it was awesome.
Speaker 2:It was a really good experience. And then, yeah, he just signed off the papers and here you go. And then I had been busting my butt for weeks. I took a day off to just like recover and then we flew it on the July 4 this year and
Speaker 1:America. Right? Happy birthday America. It was it
Speaker 2:was the... It honestly, like I just watched some footage of it again and I got emotional. Like, it was... If you think of your solo flight, the first time you ever sold an airplane Mhmm. And how magical that was, times it by 10.
Speaker 2:An airplane you built flying it for the first time, it was an incredible... The most... One of the most incredible experiences I've ever had aside from, you know, like seeing my kids born. Yep. Just it it is truly something you'll never feel again and even if you build another airplane, you'll never feel that again.
Speaker 2:Just that first time was something magical like you built your own wings and now you're flying on them. That was that was absolutely incredible. But then also, you know, you have this injection of like, okay, need to make sure I'm not gonna die here, know. Still trying to check things and make sure everything's flying and functioning properly and everything did. It was it was really great, you know.
Speaker 2:It's just a huge shout out to Zenith's kits. It's it's hard to build them wrong. You can you can do a lot and still have a really great flying airplane.
Speaker 1:Were there nerves for that flight or was it just mostly excitement? Like, obviously, there's gonna be some nerves there because you know Oh. Push the power and you're like, please work.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was just honestly pure adrenaline. Yeah. It's hard to even remember everything that happened that day. It was nerves, then it comes off the ground and you realize everything's going to be okay and then it's just pure excitement like elation, then you land it and then all the emotions hit, like, you did it, you know.
Speaker 2:Two and a half years, twelve hundred hours of effort, you did it, you know. And it was it was... Man, it was special.
Speaker 1:I want
Speaker 2:to say that. It was really special.
Speaker 1:What was kinda like the moment where you're like, I did it? Was it all the way up to landing in Oshkosh, parking your plane there for the first time? Was it the first flight? Was it getting it signed off? Or kinda what...
Speaker 1:Talk me through about just the emotions of being finished and when did you actually feel like you finished it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I mean, it's never finished.
Speaker 1:It's a good point we can say that you're right. You know When version one was finished, I would say.
Speaker 2:When version one... Just just that first flight. That was really... That was the the pivotal moment. Like, else was like, we'll make everything else work.
Speaker 2:Now it's all flying. Like I had some slight things that I wanted to tweak like like that exhaust for example, I realized that a crack was forming in my exhaust which is what pushed me to go to the veteran. Yeah. Like there's there's always little things to change, but like the true moment was that first flight. That was when everything, you know, came to fruition.
Speaker 1:What would you say got you through the building? Like, when I say got you through, I mean, like, did you have a coffee addiction, Diet Coke, just your wife being super supportive? Like, was there like a crutch that you had that you just needed like to help you get through everything and support you for those eighteen eighteen hour days?
Speaker 2:I... A 100% my wife. She battened down the hatches in our house and And just like made it when you would have a wife that, you know, all of a sudden I had an, you know, at that end I was spending like probably 1,000 to $2 a week on just little parts, the things that needed to show up and, you know, like, oh, I got to replace this or I got to buy this or oh crap, you know, didn't realize I needed Yeah. These solenoids or oh no, I I forgot the connector kit to my VPX. Like there was just lots of little things that were like, I just needed them there.
Speaker 2:And never once did she complain, she's like, buy it, spend it. If we have to take out a loan to pay for this next part, let's do it. Like, I want to see it finished. I want to see you succeed and yet at the same time, she's still working a full time job, running kids around, doing that. You know, we have young kids, like I have I have a a second grader and a preschooler, like, it's not like we're in an easy mode of life right now.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:It's busy. And so that, like, seeing her bust her butt made me want to bust my butt. Like, oh, like, let's get this done so then I can go back to a normal life. And and it was... That was the my major motivator.
Speaker 1:I feel like I need to get Miss Warrior Worthy on to tell her side of the story. I feel like there's some humor behind this and she's like, alright, I finally I need to get this. This is my therapy session. I need to get this off my chest.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm sure she has plenty to say. But, know, I talked about building another airplane, you know, I mentioned it because I... There are definitely more airplanes in my future. Cool.
Speaker 2:I, you know, I've I've got... My dream situation would be three airplanes. One would be my book, my bush airplane, my backcountry exploring airplane. One is gonna be my four or six seat family hauler 200 knot machine that'll take me across the country with my wife and kids. And then one will be like an exhibition aircraft, something truly just fun and beautiful to fly and and take to places.
Speaker 2:So those are my kind of dream situations. I I mentioned it right after Oshkosh and she might have had a minor panic attack when I did. But I was like, it's like a year or two away, I promise.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or a month.
Speaker 2:She was she was more okay with that because
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, remember how much fun this was? Like, we had so much fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's... I I will probably def... I I think I will consider a builder assist next time.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Just for the saving of time, I have the experience of building a plane. I've done it. You know, it's amazing. I think that the next airplanes I want to do, I I want to take advantage of some of the amazing other kit plane manufacturers out there that are that are doing exceptional builder assist programs. I mean, we're looking at like the slings, the scale wings, you know, Vans even has a really great, it's not builder assist but a really great quick build kit, like there's just so many great kit building manufacturers.
Speaker 2:Like that's the one thing like I I love what is possible out there. I love that there are planes for everyone. Whether you want that $600,000 bush plane or whether you want a family four seat aircraft, whether you want something super affordable, there's just so many options and now with Mosaic coming through and some of the loosening of rules which just doesn't happen in the FAA. We don't loosen rules hardly ever and now we're seeing just some amazing new things coming out. I really think experimental aviation and kit planes in general are are the future of hobby and personal transportation and travel for for pilots.
Speaker 2:It's it really is just opening up a lot.
Speaker 1:I mean, it gets a more affordable way for you to get an airplane. Right? I mean, very time consuming. Right? Like, you paid in time for what you didn't pay and quickness and luxury of just buying, you know, a one eighty or one eighty two or a one whatever you wanna buy.
Speaker 1:But, I mean, you... It's your airplane. You get to do whatever you want. Right? Experimental.
Speaker 1:You strap that, you put experimental on the side and the FAA is like, cool. Good luck, man. I signed it off. Don't do anything too stupid.
Speaker 2:Well, and most pilots don't need to fly for hire. Yeah. That's the only limitation. Really, that's the only limitation for an amateur built aircraft. You just can't take people for hire.
Speaker 2:And so there's... If you're just flying for yourself, there's no reason why you shouldn't consider experimental aircraft, especially you know whether you build it or you... It's built from someone trusted and reputable, which now these kit... These manufacturers of these kits can now start building these planes too. So there's just...
Speaker 2:It's opening up a lot and competition is good. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love and respect the the Cirrus's that are putting out just incredible amount of planes. But when I can build a comparable RV 10 for $500,000, why would I spend 1,100,000 for a Cirrus? And don't get me wrong, there is an audience that's like I don't want to ever build or buy that plane, but there's an audience that really wants that same experience or the same quality of aircraft in a sense for half the price. So it's just...
Speaker 2:I love that there's options. I think that's amazing thing.
Speaker 1:Last couple questions, actually maybe last question, but your wife was very supportive in doing this. Was it harder to convince her to buy the airplane or to go fly with you in the airplane the first time?
Speaker 2:Oh, she loves flying. She'll go with me on any trip. That's Sure. I'm very fortunate in that sense. I just...
Speaker 2:She's just like, I just need oxygen. We fly in very high places and so I'm actually looking and putting one of the the recyclers, the essentially the small little like eight pound units that can then recycle oxygen like
Speaker 1:Oh, cool.
Speaker 2:There's some pretty cool new technology you can start throwing in these planes now. But now she loves flying. She was not opposed to me building the plane either. I mean, again, I've had like a very legendary wife in this situation. There were definitely hard times, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:But it's been... She's been very supportive in every aspect. She's ready for me to build a family plane. She's mad. I used to have a Mooney, that was my first plane I owned.
Speaker 2:And she's mad I sold that because it was just when you can all hop in and we can get to Phoenix in an hour and a half or get up to Yeah. You know, all over the West and within like an hour or two hours, it was just an awesome experience. So family fast travel plane is next for sure.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, I can't wait to see it. Maybe we'll have another... I built this when I'm doing what? This would be like the a hundredth magazine by that time when you get it all done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hopefully, I don't throw away half of that plane too.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, I hope you do for content, man. Remember the content does well, then you do well. Yeah. I hope not. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't throw it away. Please, please do not. Well, Carson, I appreciate you coming back on. It was great. I mean, I literally just texted you out of nowhere and you're just like, dude, done.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. And I was like, tomorrow? You're like, okay. Cool. So I appreciate you, dude.
Speaker 1:I think this will be really cool and you built that, man. That's awesome. And maybe one day I can I can say the same? Maybe not a zenith, who knows? Maybe I'll go for the the family hauler because, you know, backcountry North Carolina.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We do have the mountains, we do have the beach. I guess there is a... There's some good backcountry out here, but just gotta make a little different than what you gotta deal with. Carson, dude, thanks, man.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you coming on. It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Dude, it's been great. Thanks for having me, and, see you on the next one.
Speaker 1:We'll see you. That's a wrap on episode three seventy two. Check out the magazine, buy out the pilothq.com/mag. Flight one, two, three, and four. Boards at the printers, printing soon.
Speaker 1:Digital copies should be coming soon as well. Thank you guys for listening so much. I appreciate your time. And as always, happy flying. The Pilot to Pilot podcast is brought to you by ground school from the finer points, the indispensable training app for new and experienced pilots.
Speaker 1:Visit learnthefinerpoints.com backslash Justin to save 10% off your first year.