Defining Hospitality

A former firefighter now turned hotelier, today’s guest talks about how his experiences with his grandma’s hostel has influenced his view on hospitality. Aaron Anderson, a board member of the Hospitality Diversity Action Council (HDAC) and the CEO of 26 Co, joins host Dan Ryan to talk about how the lack of diversity in higher up positions of #hospitality can be viewed as a more prominent issue and how important it is to have empathy and listen to others with an open heart. 

Takeaways: 
 
  • When coming up with a business plan, you need to have a clear goal or thesis that represents your values and what you want in the future.
  • Hospitality is providing a warm and safe environment for a guest. No matter what the guest is going through, making sure they are feeling safe and welcomed can bring plenty of relief.
  • Getting to know people on a personal level and understanding what their feelings are is a big part of hospitality.
  • It’s important to keep an open heart and listen to others, as it helps you understand not only the guest but also yourself.
  • You can always build empathy. It’s ok to admit you don’t know the right thing to say or do, but as long as you approach the situation with an open heart then you can learn.
  • The hospitality industry is diverse but only at the lower level positions. As you get higher and higher in the rankins to the c-suite level, you see less and less diversity which is an issue.
  • Don’t take any moment for granted. We get caught up in the tough love we put ourselves through, but everything will work out like it’s meant to. 

Quote of the Show:
 
6:58 “I think hospitality is really just providing that place of warmth for someone. Due to it being, traveling due to being their friend that needs to come over and to sleep over and spend some time with you because they're that they're going through something. That moment when my grandmother owned the shelter for women and children, we were in hospitality. We're providing meals, we're providing a warm bed to stay, providing clothes. Hospitality is just not hotels or restaurants. It's really providing a cozy place in a safe place.”

Links:
 
Shout Outs:
 
0:36 Hunter Conference
8:19 Jason Caldwell
8:24 HD Summit
20:53 Black Lives Matter
21:38 George Floyd
23:01 HDAC
23:27 Nina Grondin
23:28 Damon Lawrence
23:28 Bashar Wali
25:30 Entrepreneur’s Organization
28:59 Blockbuster
29:06 Netflix
29:29 Tom Healy
31:49 ACE Hotel
31:51 Brad Wilson
35:12 Malcom X College
40:00 Cliff Eric
40:04 Ralph Angerberger
40:06 Laurie Horvath
40:09 Steve Shoat
40:13 Scott Hammons
40:25 Karen Harrington
40:34 Angela Clark
41:26 Cliff Derkin
43:24 Scott Hammons
43:27 Alan Benjamin
47:20 Mikey Dobin

Ways to Tune In: 

Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Ryan: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.
I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality. Today's guest is a former firefighter, a rising star and visionary in the hospitality industry, a former director of design and construction at Diamond Rock Hospitality. He's a current board member at hdac, which is the Hospitality Diversity Action Council.
He's currently the CEO of the 26 Co. Ladies and gentlemen, Aaron Anderson. Welcome Aaron. Thank you, Dan. Thank you for having me. Oh, man. It's so good to have you here. And I just want everyone to know I've met Aaron. A handful of times in the past, but mostly in passing. Um, and it wasn't really [00:01:00] until I sat down next to you at the Hunter Conference in May where I really got to know you at a much deeper level.
At that dinner that we did, it was the first industry event that I'd been in since I think we've all been in, in a while. So it was weird sitting down next to someone at dinner. It was wonderful to be there. What struck me most about that conversation is how helpful you were, um, to my friend Tom, who is, uh, developing a hotel, um, up in Buffalo.
It's his dream to do it. He has some land and a, and a property and, but you also asked a really amazing clarifying question where he was saying he wants to do all these things, and he was kind of all over and you said like, what's your thesis? And it was just such like a focusing question and it, everyone kind of got involved at that point.
And I'm really curious, like, where did you learn how to ask that question because I love it.
Aaron Anderson: Uh, probably when I was at. Diamond Rock. Um, you know, I was learning about investing in, you know, what, this [00:02:00] world was on the ownership side and I was, honestly, I was super lost. Right. Just haven't come from the third party project management side.
Usually when we get something, it's like, just hand it to us. We're like, Hey, go. But when I was at Diamond Rock, you know about talking with the investment guys, doing investment analysis with the deal guys. Um, I would say, man, why, why don't you, why don't you look at something in Puerto Rico? And they're like, that's not in our thesis.
That's not what we do. Right? I'm like, well, what is your thesis? You know? They're like, well, okay, let me break it down for you. In layman's terms, we're, we're a private company, we're a long term investment company. We hold things 10 and 12, 15 years, right? And, um, that was from there on, I started to learn like.
Your thesis is what is actually, what is your goal? What is what, what do you wanna invest in? What, what is your, uh, what's your area of ex, you know, where do you want to [00:03:00] be an expert at? You know, like what's, uh, and my question to Tom was like, man, what's your thesis? I know you wanna develop a hotel. Are you, you wanna do it for you, your kits, or you wanna do it for the community, or you wanna make it a travel spot?
Like, you know, kind of what's, what's, what's, what's the goal here? Right? So, uh, that's kind of where
Dan Ryan: I learned that. It's interesting. Uh, getting so clear for me, especially like providing furniture to so many hotels. Um, some clients are, hey, they just reposition and they want to sell it immediately. And I find that we work really well with companies that wanna spend a bit more and hold, because then quality is important.
It's not just like you're flipping a house like Chip and Joanna Gaines. Exactly. And just trying to gain as much as you can, which is great, but everyone has a different thesis and, um, I don't know. I've stolen that from you. I call it r and d, rip off and duplicate. Um, because when I, when I'm talking to someone and there's a lot of information coming at me, it's so good to get help as a coach, to help [00:04:00] others get focused.
Aaron Anderson: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think everybody needs to know what their thesis is, what whatever you're doing, right. Who's your target client? What area, what area you each kind to play ball. I mean, for, for 26 Co I had to figure out what our thesis was, what, you know, what, what was our mission statement, same thing, right?
What, what was, what was our mission? And you know, the, so I, I think everyone needs it, for
Dan Ryan: sure. Well, that's actually a great question. So with 26 and co, which is really, I'm so excited for you to be out there and be an entrepreneur and, you know, relocated your family and like you're in it to win it. What is the thesis and mission of what you're trying to accomplish at 26 Co.
So Sub 26
Aaron Anderson: co, we're a full service project development service firm focusing on mostly full service assets. Uh, you know, we, we'll do, we'll do whatever our clients want us to do. Mostly focus on full service assets. Um, you know, as we went through this, We've decided also to, you know, figure out how to take down our own [00:05:00] assets.
It's well, right? Investing in our own assets, uh, that's gonna be a small percentage of our business. But, um, that is a huge goal as we're trying to bring diversity to the top, the food chain. And I think one way we can do that is through ownership. Um, and so, uh, that's what the 26 goal is. And we, we want people to, we want contributors.
We go by contributors. We really don't have CEO or CFO unless we we're kind of forced to. We really like to be a contributor. Cause we feel like everyone in our, in our company's a contributor. Everybody's contributing, right? We we're trying to get out of, uh, the titles and making people feel lost and sometimes, cause I, I think I was in those moments.
I'm like, yeah, I'm climbing the chain, but you know, nobody, you're on an email and they're like, I'm not gonna respond to the coordinator. I'll respond to the bp. Right. So, so we've gotta, we've gotta went to like a more of a contributor, um, type deal. And, and that's kudos to my wife mostly cuz she came
Dan Ryan: up with that.
Oh really? Yeah. Um, and then, [00:06:00] so how did she present that idea to you? I'm actually very curious about that. That's cool. Contributors only or
Aaron Anderson: most, yeah. Well, so the, the, the thing with C, right? A lot of people think it stands for company, right? But it does stand for company, but it stands for contributors, it stands for collection, it stands for community.
And we've just taken that co role with it. And she was really trying to figure out, you know, what do we call the people that we care about in our company, right? Like, you know, who are the, what, you know, what's, what's gonna be, you know, that thing besides staff members or employees or, you know. And so we really just kind of came up with something that.
Say contributors, Hey, it's all hands on deck. Everybody matters. Um, because I think that's, you know, that, that's one thing we're, we're we really want to relive out and we try to live. It's our day to day, you know, everybody matters. Everybody. Nobody's off, off limits. You know, nobody, nobody's at ail. Right.
Dan Ryan: I, I, so in that [00:07:00] sea, just hearing community and contributor, um, and obviously we're kind of, we're in the hotel space, um, predominantly, so when you think about this community contributor co, how does that help you?
Or how do you define hospitality and as you use your thesis for 26 Co to go forward and make this all happen? I think hospitality
Aaron Anderson: is really just providing that place of warmth for someone due to being traveling, due to being. That friend that needs to come over and just sleep over and, and, and, and spend some time with you because they're, if they're going through something at life, uh, that moment where my grandmother owned a shelter for women and children, we had hospitality, we're providing meals, we're providing, uh, providing a warm bed to stay, you know, providing clothes, uh, hospitality is [00:08:00] just not hotels or restaurants, right.
It's, it's
Dan Ryan: really,
Aaron Anderson: it's really providing a, a cozy place and a safe place for someone to be. And if you get the service them during that time, that's even better. Um, but sometimes people just need, you know, that place to stay, even if it's just business. Right? We go, we stay in hotels a lot for business. Um, but I think it's bigger than just business, even though that's, you know, that that's a big part of our industry.
But I think hospitality's found in. Just catering to others and giving back to others, uh, in those different ways. And, and sometimes lodging comes with that. You know,
Dan Ryan: it's interesting, I, I had a guest on his name's Jason Caldwell. He's rode across the ocean a couple of times. I saw him speak at the HD Summit in, um, in Tahoe.
And the reason why I had him on is because he basically stripped everything bare of what would be comfortable. But they found these moments or [00:09:00] gathering points where they actually gave and receive hospitality in the middle of ocean in just the most insane circumstances. But they were able to be comfortable and hearing you talk about, or just not talk about, but just mention your grandmother and the shelter for battered women be like coming from the hotel world, you know, where it's, what's the thread count and what's this and what's that?
And like, oh, is it luxury? Is it not? Is it this, is it that? I wanted to know if you could share some of. Like how you would make these women who just are totally on the outs and just really struggling. Like, do you remember any, um, situations where they, like, even, it's not like you're saying at the Four Seasons, but how did you make them feel comfortable?
What did you, how were you inspired by that? Yeah, so
Aaron Anderson: put plenty of stories. I mean, I grew up in it. Um, it, you know, till I was, I was, I was in it till at least [00:10:00] 13 years old, right? Hardcore in it every day. Um, but I would say Dan, look, primarily, most of these people were coming out, coming in for either mental illness, like, because they, they were homeless and some leashed before, some were in fires, some were evicted due to couldn't pay.
Some were, you know, in abusive situations and. As I was a firefighter, as you mentioned in the beginning of the show, my point of all this is that most people were coming when they didn't have anywhere else to go. This was like a last result. So you had no choice but to have empathy and say, I'm bringing you in as you are.
It doesn't matter. Some people you came in, you hugged like, look, it's really meaningful to me cuz [00:11:00] like my, I I, I gained a brother outta this. I met my brother at seven years old and my mom ended up adopting him. And you know, I gained a brother outta this, right? And my brother was sleeping on trains right before we met at seven years old in Chicago by themselves, right?
So making these people feel comfortable that when they, when they wouldn't end, my grandmother made sure they, they didn't care what time it. It'd be 10, 11 o'clock at night. She, she would say, go someone, go get in the kitchen and get this person some food. You know, go, go, go get them a hot plate. Go get them, you know, uh, water, uh, whatever they, whatever they wanted.
Get, get them rolls, get them. Then they get up the next morning. They had breakfast. They had, you know, sleep as long as you need to, you know, and then they started to put 'em on a path where they can do for themselves, right? [00:12:00] And so embracing people and hugging people and, and loving on people, that was the only way to do it.
And, and, and, and it's a heart posture thing. You can't force it. You gotta love it. Right? So you
Dan Ryan: said heart. Yeah. I've not heard that. I've not heard those two words together because in all of these conversations that I'm having, there's this idea of. Like that. It's kind of a thread that goes through.
There's this idea of openhearted listening, right? Everyone wants to be heard, everyone wants to be acknowledged. And it was interesting when I asked you like, how do you define it? One of the first things you said was having a friend who's in a hard time, you know, stay on your couch or something like that.
And where did you learn about this idea of heart posturing? I'm really curious about that.
Aaron Anderson: Heart posture came from my mom, right? So my mom worked for my grandmother, the shelter, right? Right. So mom worked for the grandmother shelter, [00:13:00] and she'll say, you know, she had my sisters working, right? I have a sister, right?
And have two sisters. And I remember one time she fired my sister, right? Like from the family business, right? Like she fired. And then I, I talked to her like the next day and I'm like, mom, what do you know? She's like, I'm, I'm going over to see about your sister. I, I know she doesn't have a job. Like she's talking like birth person, right?
I'm like, you are the one that fired. She's like, yeah, but I gotta make sure she's eating. I gotta make sure she's okay. I gotta make sure she's, you know, she has everything that she needs. And she treated everyone like that. It didn't matter who it was, it didn't matter if it was the guy off the street, it didn't matter if it was someone that she's bringing in our home for adoption or a temporary stay, it didn't matter.
And what I learned was her heart posture was always loving people for where they're at. Sometimes I feel that as a society, we get caught [00:14:00] up trying to get people to be where we're at. Right. Instead of just meeting people where they're at. Right. You know, we, we, we, we get caught up in this, you know, well, if you're not like me, then you know, I can't accept.
It's not about that. Right. It's, it's, it's about meeting people where they're at, loving people where they're at. And I think that takes on and why I play such a big role at hospitality because, People checking that you don't know what type of day they've had, you don't know what they've been through.
When they get off that flight, you don't know how many times they were delayed. And our GMs, you know, like they're training their staff to embrace people, and I think that's all it mean. I, if you're ever having a bad day, just go Chick-fil-a .
Dan Ryan: So brighten, usually it brightens my day. I get some of that pollination sauce.
So there, that brings out a smile. But
Aaron Anderson: dad, heart past is great, right? Like, hey, you know, like we might one of them having a bad day, but you can't tell, you [00:15:00] know, like you want extra pollination, want tuned or three, you know, it's amazing.
Dan Ryan: I think this, I, I'm very intrigued by this whole heart open hearted or heart posture or just the idea of listening.
I think, like right now, you know, we're in this state where every, everyone is so divided and like everyone's speaking into these echo chambers. But really like we have two ears and one mouth. You said something that really struck me, where it's like, okay, I, I, I hear where you're at, but I want, I want to get you to where I'm at, but it's okay for people to just be where they are.
It's okay to disagree with someone. Absolutely. As long as you hear them, you're not gonna change their mind, but just hear them and love them and be open to them. A Absolutely. I was,
Aaron Anderson: I was with a friend this morning and I'm in a small group, my church, right. Little small group. And my, my, we were talking about, uh, homeless people, right?
And giving to people who are maybe, you know, quote unquote pain handlers or people on the street. And [00:16:00] he was saying he has a true problem, you know, cuz there's so much, you know, the deficit of jobs. You know, there's jobs everywhere, you know, everybody's tired, you know, like, why can't people just go get a job?
You know, dude, you know, like, just meet them where they're at. Like, look, I get it, you know, some of us, we have the mental capability. I've been on the other side being in a tab atha house. My, my grandparents shelter. Where people literally, they don't have the mental capability of holding a job. They don't know where to start.
They don't know how to fill on resume. That's all privilege. To be able to do those things, to be able to write your name on the application and do those things, that's all a privilege to all of us. Right. And you don't know if it's not a privilege until you're not able to do it. Totally.
Dan Ryan: Right. A hundred percent.
And I feel like that frustration that your friend may have had where it's like, there's so [00:17:00] many jobs, why can't they work? That's them trying to get them to where they are. Right. And not meeting someone where they are.
Aaron Anderson: Exactly. Exactly. Like I tell you all the time, but, and I say this all the time, look, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give my donation, I'm gonna give to whatever charity that is.
I'm gonna give to my church or wherever it is. I'm not gonna worry about it yet. I just do my part. Right. I'm gonna do my privilege part, being able to give. That's it. And I walk away from the situation. If I start worrying about where the ff e is,
I start worrying about where the money's going. I'm gonna go crazy, you know, like, you know, I can't do anything. Once that, once that container's on the ship and it's the middle of the ocean snow list, Dan's gonna call me with great news.
Dan Ryan: Right? It made it, or bad news. Hey man, you know what, it's, as long as we're all transparent and open with everyone where, like, wherever we are, it allows everyone, like I always say, we're all [00:18:00] big kids.
We all have our library cards. Like, give us the bad news. That's right. We can deal with this. Um, but it's interesting to think about, you know, so much about what we do is we open hotels, right? And that it's time. You gotta get those rooms going. You gotta get it done. But there's this. Kind of a conflict of meeting people where they're at.
Right? Right. Cause that's the situation, but also needing to get things done. Um, how do you reconcile that? Because like in your day job, you have, you're opening hotels, so Absolutely. How do you deal?
Aaron Anderson: You know, I, I think that, you know, sympathy and empathy for people who are not where we're at is one thing.
And then I think our job duty and what we do professionally is something different. Right. Um, I, I separate 'em because, um, I think, I don't know why I separat 'em, but I, I have separated them. I do try to bring the heart posture to the table for my clients, [00:19:00] making sure I understand where they're at. Uh, but a lot of times, you know, I separate the two because I know there's a duty.
I know there's a, there's a job to do. There's. Uh, there's a schedule to meet, right? And, and, and, and that's what we, that's our promise for our clients. Hey, we'll meet, we'll make the schedule. We'll do whatever we need to do. We'll be transparent if we're not gonna meet the schedule. Right? Um, so that's, that's one big thing.
Uh, if I, if I, if I can do that, um, if I can do that, I'm better off. Because empathy, it'll take a lot. I think the sensitivity for me, it'll take a lot out of me. Right. You know, but I gotta, I gotta, I gotta play hardball on this side and then, you know, I give the, the other motion part up later.
Dan Ryan: Well, I, I also think to have a, a truly open and calm heart posture to just go with that.
I love that so much. So thank you for sharing [00:20:00] that with me. Um, you kind of have to be really good with yourself too, right. And being good with yourself is being organized. Kind of knowing what the thesis is, knowing what the objective is. And I find that the people who lose that heart posture or close their heart off or start freaking out are the ones that are not good with themselves.
They're not the organized ones. They don't really know what the ultimate outcome is. And then they start lashing out at others because Absolutely. So it mm-hmm. .
Aaron Anderson: Yeah. I mean, look in internally, you know, I'll take this analogy that, that I heard from what really was my knowledge. Would I, I heard someone given a message and he was saying that people who had, who are in substance abuse situations, substance abuse is just really the, the, what they objected to in the end.
But it's all about what's going on internal. Right. And I think if we can get internal worry, [00:21:00] external will be even. Like what we deliver is gonna be better. That heart posture, joy. I have a friend, she's a designer, and when she, she's listened, she'll know I'm talking about her. She called me and said, Hey, Erin, you know, with the whole black lightest matter thing, you know, I'm really, uh, curious of like what I can say, what I can't say.
And I said, you know, I get that theory off. But what I tell people all the time is, if you hurt postures, right, it doesn't matter what you say. Because people can build the empathy. People can sense, people know you're being cordial and you, you're curious and you're wondering, I mean, you're, you're trying to learn, you're trying to, you're trying to gain more knowledge, right?
And I think that's, that's what all of this is about. Having the ragged posture that flows into hospitality, it flows into what [00:22:00] is hospitality. It flows into the Black Lives Matter, flows into the George Floyd. It flows into election politics, white, hot Harpo. Just because you think you're the, you have the right answer, that's fine.
But you're, you're, you're the part one, have a right ass too. Or they might have a different objective or they might see something you don't. Well, I,
Dan Ryan: I really think that the people who think that they have the right answer, oftentimes the conflict winds up happening when that Right answer that they think they have.
And you said, you know, if someone's coming from a place where they're curious or they want to gain knowledge about something that they might not know about. If you have, if you think you have the right and only answer, you're not curious or open to hearing what that other thing is, you still might not agree with them.
But I think that one of the things I love so much about our industry too, is in being of this servant. Kind of servant leader, [00:23:00] um, servant mindset, servant, just, you know, putting others first. We have to be hearing them. And I think that much like your friend who is curious about what she can and can't say, I feel like a lot of what our industry is about is just it's okay to make mistakes.
It's okay as long as we're listening, as long as we're curious. And actually, you brought it up. Um, I wanted to get there, but with, I love what you're doing with hdac, the Hospitality Diversity Action Underlying Action, uh, committee. Right. Because I feel like you're a, you and your other board members and other leaders, and there's other people that within our industry work, I like being able to have these conversations and I might say the wrong thing as long as there's that heart posture, I'm coming at it from a place where I can have this talk.
So tell me about the thesis as it aligns with what you're trying to accomplish with h.
Aaron Anderson: Taking action, not only bringing more diversity, but [00:24:00] bringing, cause. We have, as, as my friend, Nina and Damon and Ard, all those great people would say, we have plenty of diversity in, in the, in the hospitality industry.
All your house keepers, all your, you know, engineers, all the, you know, you know, everyone lower than a gm. But when you start going to the C-suite, the rates, the private equity groups and the ownership, I mean, ed tapers all part core, right? Uh, I think they said maybe 1% of mine, 1% of African Americans, I forget what the extra status, but like maybe 1% maybe own hotels, right?
Uh, or maybe 1% are in C-Suite. Uh, I'll find the data on the information point. Um, but we're, we're trying to help. The generations behind us think about these positions, think about finance, think [00:25:00] about, you know, and even architecture, interior design, manufacturing. We were at hdac, we were trying to figure out, man, are there any black own furniture manufacturers?
There is crickets, right? Cause between Stacy, myself,
Dan Ryan: we have Bravery Wheeler,
Aaron Anderson: you know, between the three, Nina , between, we, we know quite a few people. And not to be able to find one out of the, the mix. We wanna, we, we, we wanna bring more opportunity to all communities, uh, and shape up this industry. So if it is more,
Dan Ryan: It's a huge problem.
And I just, even just outside of our industry, just speaking as an entrepreneur and I'm in this entrepreneur's organization, I'm in the New York chapter. It's a global organization. [00:26:00] Like we struggle with diversity, we struggle with female entrepreneurs, we struggle with finding, um, minority owned businesses and they're out there, but even, even recruiting them is really difficult to do.
So I don't know. That's one of the reasons why I want to have this podcast too, is to just get a diversity is what makes us all so strong, especially in this country. And I feel like it's way past time that we start talking about this more and having these save conversations and be curious and see, hey, how can we move the needle?
Because I really believe, um, that talent is uniformly distributed, but opportunity is not 100%.
Aaron Anderson: We all, we all got talent. Everyone is born. They come in this world with talent. Opportunity is something different. Cause I can tell you the opportunity that my daughter's gonna have, I'll probably, I didn't see in third [00:27:00] grade.
You know, she's coming home saying that she's learning distributive property.
Dan Ryan: Third grade,
Aaron Anderson: what, wait, let me, me, let me go on YouTube and get this word out.
Dan Ryan: And they're teaching you how to just do regular old multiplication in totally different ways. But it's, but it also kind of comes into this, it's like, okay, there's more than one way to figure out a problem.
And I think even in education with like what your daughter's going through, I'm just amazed at the so many different ways that. That they're learning because it just helps your brain work forwards and backwards and find all these different solutions. And I'm very, I'm very excited for what that looks like in 10 or 15 years.
Dude,
Aaron Anderson: tell me about it. When Covid happened, I have my daughter at home, she's sitting there saying, no, we're supposed to circle one and then break it down, and then add it back. I'm like, what? Let me just tell you what one, what, what [00:28:00] six plus five is. Okay, let me just show this, Lynette. I can't do it like that.
We gotta break the six down in three and three, and then we gotta add the five. Yeah. I'm like, holy moly, what are they doing tonight? What doing my baby? You know, like what's, I think it's called
Dan Ryan: Singapore Math for some reason, but Yeah. Of it, it's this, it's this, it's this fluency and, and problem solving.
And, and I think that, you know, whatever problems are thrown at us, the more ways we can think about it from all different wait actions, no matter what the outcome is. The more diverse ways you can come at anything, the better the solution will be. Absolutely.
Aaron Anderson: You. The reason I think the reason there's so many barriers to different things is people don't have the knowledge.
They don't have the, they've never been introduced, they've never been, they've never walked another, another command shoots,
Dan Ryan: right? Like,
Aaron Anderson: I, I think we need, I'm glad my daughter's [00:29:00] learning all these different methods of how to add six plus five, right? Like, I think it's cool, right? It's been, it's been painful for me, but it's cool, right?
Um, because I, I, I think you do, you start thinking outside the box a lot more, um, because tradition is, tradition is beautiful, but I, I use the saying a lot. You never wanna be block busted, right? You never wanna be blocked. You never, you never want to have. Netflix come to your opposite offer. You, you know, what the future looks like and you're like, nah, keep with the vcr.
I'm keep with vhs. Nobody's gonna do that. You know, and I hope nobody block pressure will listen to this. But you know, you all go in, you know, , you know, like, you never watch, I never, there's a coo, Tom Keeley, um, the , he used to come to [00:30:00] Roman, make us think outside the box guys, what are we doing? I wanna see, I wanna see rainbows, I wanna see flowers, I wanna, you know, this should, this should feel like a honeymoon.
You know, like, like stop doing all the same tired stuff. You know, like, you, what am I supposed to do with this? You know, like I just really think it, it's our job, especially in the hospitality sector. And I think that's why multi cold tells and softs, they're doing so well. Cause people won't experience.
Right. And, and, and you gotta be able to, you gotta be able to add a little bit different, you gotta be able to, you know, speak a little different. You gotta be to talk a little different, you gotta be open to a different language. You gotta be able to learn something other than English. And you know, like, you gotta be open to it all.
So we can be more inclusive as hopeless society. It's a United States. It's, it's a country. It's, it's a world. Uh, we gotta be more inclusive. [00:31:00] We're missing so much. We're missing
Dan Ryan: so much. We are, and I think I'm really intrigued by the independent space as well. Um, and all the soft brands because it's allowing the bigger brands to get into that kind of boutique, more independent, not so guide, policy oriented, more like, Hey, this is a, uh, an environment and let's be connected to the community where we are.
We didn't just land on a moon in a neighborhood or in a city or a town. And just have this thing that doesn't fit. But it also allows the ones that are done really well, they allow for these collision points in the lobby where it's like, Hey, don't just go to your room, stay down here, sit next to the person and learn something.
Like, what's your thesis? Like, I don't, I never would've thought of that if I wasn't sitting down right next to you at that dinner. And yeah, just think about all those misconnections, the more collisions that we can create amongst us all, then, you know, we find ourselves on these other journeys and
Aaron Anderson: think so [00:32:00] many of our designers are doing so well.
Right? They're really breaking people together and you know, and that's where we need each other as an industry. Our designers and our architects are just so talented and divisions of the different brands that's out there, like Ace Hotels, you know, like shout out to Brad and I mean, when I first, my first Ace hotel, I mean, you know, like this, this table that's like 50 feet long in New York and you know, there's just tons of people sitting at it that.
Intermingling and talking and borrowing chargers and , you know, like, like, what is this? You know? But Amen.
Dan Ryan: I love it. I love, yeah, they're doing a really good job. I, and actually just, there's so many that are doing great and, and speaking to other people in our industry as we make our way out into the, whatever's next, after we get through this covid and reduced head count everywhere, I really think that we are entering the time, it is the time for [00:33:00] independence.
It is the time for boutiques. I don't even know what an independent or a boutique is, but I know it's kind of like when the Supreme Court says they don't know what pornography is unless you see it and you know, like I know when I find something that's just right. Uh, exactly. So going from your evolution from firefighter, which was totally surpris.
To being and doing and being an entrepreneur and being in our industry and a leader in our industry. How did that happen?
Aaron Anderson: Well, let, lemme just tell you, I'm still finding buyers
Totally. She's different. Yeah. You know, you're just shipping contain costs, you know, they just, you know, by my, my awesome general contractors out there, designers and, you know, sorting, still fighting
Dan Ryan: fires, but I, clothing now lighter clothing. That's it. Yeah. Unless
Aaron Anderson: I'm gonna Vermont. Unless I'm gonna Vermont for Dr.
Rock. [00:34:00] Yeah. Um, , um, it was, it was a miracle. Like, so I was in Vincent's, Indiana, uh, small country town, you know, I was a firefighter there trying to get into, This full time position, uh, cause I was volunteer slash page, like a part-time firefighter. I'm doing this thing and I'm loving it and it was just, it was rule, but I love what I was doing.
You know what I mean? Nobody called unless they need your help, right? Like, it was one of the most rewarding jobs. I remember 4th of July we're passing out popsicles and the sky goes, Hey, hey. I'm like, man, I just gave you a popup. Like, what do you want? You know, it's like, dude, thank you for pulling me outta that car.
Oh wow. I'm like, you know, come on. Like this, this [00:35:00] crazy stuff. And, but it got to a point where I was like, dude, I'm, I'm fighting this door that keeps closing my base and all these pilots fixing in. And these small towns have been like, I, I'm just. I'm trying. And look, the wage was $26,000 a year. Like I'm like, but that was a household income where I came from.
So it was just like, you know, you know, so I'm like trying to like push, push through this door and just kept shutting. I said, you know what? Packing up stuff. I went back to Chicago, packed up and back to Chicago, went to Malcolm X College, which is like a little junior college on the west side of Chicago, and I don't know if I'd even use Google that, but by the time I got in the class they were like, dude, you can be a paramedic, but it takes like 10 years to get on a fire department.
Like 10 years. What do you guys do for that? Like you gotta make about seven 50 [00:36:00] an hour an EMT and you can do that 40 hours a week and hope your name gets full. I'm like, no, there's no way. So I instantly started getting
Dan Ryan: like three or four jobs.
Aaron Anderson: Times got hard. Mm-hmm.
Dan Ryan: got super tough and the
Aaron Anderson: landlord knocks on the door and like, Hey, you need a job?
I'm like, well, I think you can see that by the way, I'll in my rent. He's like, oh, I think you'd be good in construction. I'm like, God, I don't know about that. It's like, oh, I really do think you'll construction. I'm like, dude, I don't know what a permits, like what you talk about. Like, you know what? I don't know what you see.
He's like, meet my boss. So I went to go meet its boss. He said the same thing. He's like, you know what Gary, you're hire, and that was the start. And I went back and I was working for a property. I was a property management company, was managing like 500 units. [00:37:00] I didn't know they would turn into hotel keys one day, you know, I went back to school, got a bachelor's in construction management.
Minor in business did well there, and it just, it
Dan Ryan: took off like a rocket. So I wanna come back to this point, but I, as you were saying, I didn't know it was in Indiana. I didn't know it was in Binns, but I've spent some time in, I have a really good friend that has a place down in Sullivan County, Indiana, which is about, I don't know, 30, I know exactly where it is.
I know it's called Meam. And how the hell did you get vincen? Like how do you even wind up there? I that's like, look,
Aaron Anderson: 41 goes straight through it, right? So 41 comes outta Chicago off of Lake Shore Drive and it takes you to the back woods and drops. Shoot three, tear, right? Tear a ho Indiana. And it drops you right down in, in, down in right there.
Oh. Been since then. My uncle was living in Evansville and that's really how I [00:38:00] discovered it. My uncles like that. I know you wanna be a firefighter. This is the place to do it. I looked at a firehouse, you know, we had on fire trucks, right? It it was, it was crazy. It was an amazing experience, but yeah.
Dan Ryan: You know, and right on the Wabash River.
Yeah. So I like, we go, I bring my kids out there and it's, it's, it's, it's awesome out there. But that's like out there and I Terra Haute. I know, you know, just going by there. Federal prison on the way. And it's just, yeah. It's always, it's like they're ex every time in there, they're executing someone else.
It's just fucking crazy. Yeah. It's
Aaron Anderson: nuts.
Dan Ryan: I, I'm glad you made your way out of there.
Aaron Anderson: I'm glad I made my way out of there too, man. It was, it was, it was really wild. A lot of crazy stores. And look, I, I'm telling you, I think this really paved the way for this whole heart posture thing. I remember one time gonna rescue someone, um, in Washington. A tornado had just came through and, um, we're, we're [00:39:00] going up to people's portraits.
And I knock on one guy's door. He's like, get your ass off my porch. I'm like, wow, this is different. I was just trying to see if your feeling was safe. Right. But my job was not to judge how he felt about me or my skin color. It was my skin color. My job was to make sure he was safe and I guess if his cows and cattle were still in intact.
Right. Like, you know, make sure the fence wasn't, the house wasn't coming down.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. That's scary too, cuz everyone is very heavily armed down there. Very,
Aaron Anderson: very heavily armed. Without a doubt. Hmm. , I think we carried a gun. I think we cured a gun in, in a fricking fire truck. You know, shack . I
Dan Ryan: bet. Yeah. And then you turn on that hose and keep 'em away.
That's crazy. That's right. But actually it's making sense. [00:40:00] So, uh, firefighter. Or shelter firefighter. Okay, so you're doing construction solving problems, but really winding up in hospitality now. Now it all makes sense.
Aaron Anderson: Yeah. It, it, it's all come together, together better than I client. Right? Um, a lot of people paved the way.
Um, cliff and p dsi, shout out to him. Ralph Berger. Psi.
Dan Ryan: Laurie hba
Aaron Anderson: jll. Steve sch jll. Now cb, um, Scott Hammonds, you know, um, all you know, Stacy Char, all these people who have helped me. Karen, earring time. I can just keep going, right? There's, there's plenty. You know, Nina, you know Dana, like all these people.
Angela [00:41:00] Clark, like all these people who have constantly poured into me so I can hoard to others and do what I'm doing now. Um, it, it just doesn't stop. And it takes a village, you know, it takes a, it takes a community, right. Um, to, to, to do what
Dan Ryan: we're doing. And I, I've heard this said a couple of times where it's like, we've, wherever we are right now, we're never where we want to be or we're never, nothing's ever fixed.
You never get, and you're like, oh, I've arrived. It's always, you're always pushing, you're always on this journey. But really, we really owe so much to all, all those people you just mentioned, all those shoulders that we, all we stand on, we're always standing on the shoulders of others because we all are helping each other get to where we want to get to.
Aaron Anderson: Absolutely. Look, uh, cliff Dirken saw me on a ladder, took a pitch, should me. And sent it to the senior and the bps [00:42:00] at first finish and said, Aaron climbing his way to the top, I in the ladder cleaning a piece of artwork. Wow. Now yeah. And then I end up working for him.
Dan Ryan: Do you have a copy
Aaron Anderson: of that picture? I, I'll send it to you.
Oh yeah,
Dan Ryan: I'll send them . Oh man, I have so, yeah. So many good ones. Well, I'm have to, we'll, we'll share some of those shoulder standings and ladder staring stories when I see you in New York. Yeah, dude.
Aaron Anderson: Like,
Dan Ryan: no. Oh man. That's hilarious. See, but then some of Right, if you're always doing right by others, people do look out for others and help them on their way because we all see, and we must, it must come back to that heart posture.
We recognize that open heart kind, caring. Soul and then we just all want to help each other.
Aaron Anderson: One a hundred percent. Nobody's looking for the perfect person cause it [00:43:00] doesn't exist. Mm-hmm. , you know, it's like that, that, that person's looking for the perfect white, right? Like, it doesn't, you know, you'll never get a hundred percent right.
If you're looking for it, man, you know, it's not gonna happen. Yeah. Our
Dan Ryan: wives are 110%, but yes, I do understand nothing in theory, nothing is ever a hundred percent because we, we all have so much more work to do. We're all on a journey where the, the destination is the journey of where we're trying to get to.
Absolutely. And so, thinking about that as far as the journey that you're on, what's keeping you up at night right now?
Man,
Aaron Anderson: growth. I, I gave a shout out to Scott Hammonds and. Alan Benjamin? No. The people who have helped pave this way while they've [00:44:00] paved the way where our, the 26 Co is experiencing growth, uh, and performing for my clients. Knowing when to hire, knowing when to, how to cut costs from shipping, finding new vendors, stateside vendors.
Lead times used to all say 12 to 20 weeks. Now it's like 20 to 32 weeks, right? How do I tell my client it's gonna take 32 weeks for me to get your case goods? 32 weeks, you know, 16 weeks to get your model of furniture. What? Like, it's, that's what's keeping me up. , right? So that whole entrepreneur, the whole new entrepreneur, uh, growth that I'm going through, the growing pains, and then just the regular [00:45:00] hospitality industry, you know, nuances.
Mm-hmm. .
Dan Ryan: Well, I to totally hear you on that. And it's funny you say like, these really extended lead times, right? It's actually not funny. Um, but when we were at that Hunter conference, I saw a speak in one of these breakout panels and he, this was, I dunno, six or eight months ago, whenever it was, he said, look, all markets are efficient.
I believe all markets are efficient, but there's something really insane going on right now with freight and it's making me think it's not efficient. And I just don't, I don't know what the answer is.
Aaron Anderson: No, I, and I think we're all constantly searching for it, right?
Dan Ryan: We're, we're, we're constantly searching
Aaron Anderson: from,
Dan Ryan: we got order it the
Aaron Anderson: other day and he said, You know, the order came, the shipping costs came in $15,000 less.
I'm like, wow, that's great. We're still 150% over. But you know, that $15,000 could help. But it, it's just wonky. It's, it's [00:46:00] wonky, man. I mean, people were blaming on supply and demand. I don't think I saw as many pumpkins ever this year. I mean, you know, there was, you go to Target, there's no Halloween suck out, there's no, you know, people saying supply and demand and covid.
I, no man, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to digest every day. Um, yeah, but it's, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely tough. Uh, I was talking to someone through Adams and they were saying, do you think, will I ever see $3,500
Dan Ryan: a container yet ever? Look, I have to think, I don't know if it'll go there, but for 20 plus years it always stayed within the same band.
There was no inflation. And that's why I think I wrote about this somewhere where it was, I think that some, in five years someone will write a book called The Big Port, but instead of the Big Short, and I think it's gonna be cast, um, with, I guess Brad Pitt will be the [00:47:00] financier and George Clooney will be like the near to well son of a shipping magnate.
And they figured out some way to exploit these, uh, these bottlenecks. And I, that's why, going back to what Allen said, all markets being efficient. I really believe they are. But something is not getting efficient. So it's not clicking.
Aaron Anderson: Yeah, something's not clicking.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. On, on the entrepreneurial journey, um, side, you're not alone.
A lot of us entrepreneurs, we're all figuring it out. We're always, I always feel like I'm constantly in a startup. Um, but I will definitely, we'll take it offline and I'll just re re. Introducing this whole EO entrepreneurs organization thing, cuz it's been a, a life changer for me in such an amazing way
Aaron Anderson: that that's awesome.
And you know, I've been like Mikey Dins and Karen Harrington and Allen and all the Leo from Phil Duke. I ping those guys constantly, dude. What, what do you do? You know, what's your thoughts here? Christmas [00:48:00] gifts. How many people are he sick for? Christmas gifts, dude. Like, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's the learning curve, man.
Uh, ba I called him yesterday, like, he's like, what do you want? I'm like, I just wanna call it talk. I just want talk . I, he's like, I thought, I was like, I'm on a conference call. I'm like, right, just call me back. You know? Um, cuz it's, it's, it's, it's a different aspect, man. Um, but I love it. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
I'm blessed. Feel very privileged to, to be on this journey. However long it is. You know, I hope it forever. Right. And I, I feel very blessed and privileged to, to
Dan Ryan: do this well and much in the same way. I'm, I'm just blessed to have sat next to you at that dinner and, you know, within all these conversations I'm having, having and that we're having, it's, I feel like another se another community kind of percolating within my world.
Um, and I'm just glad you're a part of it as
Aaron Anderson: well. [00:49:00] A absolutely. I think I was sitting next to Kimberly and she said, you really gotta get to know Dan. Like, you know, you really, I think he's about to do this podcast thing. You really got to get to know Dan. And Kimberly's another one who's been amazing to me and, you know, I'm just, I
Dan Ryan: mean, she, she really pushed me cuz I, I was doing some of these Instagram Live things and she's
Aaron Anderson: like, you gotta, you're so good.
You gotta do a podcast.
Dan Ryan: So she like, I, she's definitely one of those strong. Voices back here that kind of push me to this conversation where we are right now. And I'm, you know, again, recognizing the shoulders of all those that we're standing on, it's, uh, it's amazing. And, uh, just to be able to have appreciation and gratitude for all of them.
Absolutely. And it's hard to remember to do that all the time. It is
Aaron Anderson: 100%. But dude, I never in a million years thought I'd be sitting here mm-hmm. like this. So I go back to it every single day. I think about it all the time. Like, where [00:50:00] would I be if I stayed in the area code
Dan Ryan: of 6 0 6 4, right?
Aaron Anderson: Like, where would I be?
Cuz I know where a lot more friends are, but we're we're my friends who are alive, who are not alive, like, you know, family members. You know, like where would I be, what would I be doing? Right? And to have this privilege to be. Be worried about ff and e and you know, like to be worried about paying people on a monthly basis, weekly basis, whatever it is.
Like it's a privilege. Yeah. Yeah. It is. It's hard order. It's hard work. I get it. You know, we've worked hard to get there. I get it. It's privilege. It's
Dan Ryan: so, so go going with that and just that kind of feeling of gratitude, appreciate, appreciation, privilege. Like what's, what are you most excited about in the [00:51:00] future?
Oh, dude, Ville. Ownership. Oh my gosh. I'm, I'm, I'm so
Aaron Anderson: excited for the, the d and the inclusion and the action and everything that's coming forth and what, you know, the committees, the council that Stacy put together and everything that we're gonna be doing. for like Dayon and his, you know, uh, the hotel brand homage he has out there and with, you know, all the partnerships and all the stuff that's going on.
Like, I, I'm ecstatic because
Dan Ryan: I feel like it's just brewing,
Aaron Anderson: right? Like, it, it's, it's brewing and, and, and it's, we're just waiting for it to, to, to let out. Right. And in 10 years we'll have another podcast. And dude, I think the stories gonna be different. Like, I think we're gonna start seeing young ones come up, you know, [00:52:00] bgms be financial workers, be analysts going to Cornell, going to nyu, going to Penn State cuz we've been able to, you know, put some, some words and, you know, partner with some, some amazing people.
And to, to get that word out there that this, this is one of the best industries you can ever be in. It's such a family, it's a community, it's family. I mean, I feel like I've known you forever, Dan, like, you know, like you feel like, you know, you text me or whatever and you are like, Hey, can you do this? Or do you know this person or whatever, right?
Like Karen Harrington, I met her during Covid and it, and we talk like once a week.
Dan Ryan: Minimal,
Aaron Anderson: minimal. We, we don't like last 18 months, every week.
Dan Ryan: And it's interesting because if you go back to [00:53:00] the, the handful of times I met you before we sat down at that dinner, next to each other, it was just ships passing.
Hey, how are you? Hey, what's up? How are you? But then, you know, I think covid, the silver lining is it allowed us all to kind of reset and just, ooh, okay, let's, uh, let's reevaluate, let's reengage, let's engage in a different way. Absolutely. I
Aaron Anderson: mean, look, at the end of the day, we all sat down and said, wow, what do we do now?
Right.
Dan Ryan: I got furloughed, right? I was
Aaron Anderson: really sitting down.
Yeah, Alan and Alan Benjamin called me with like, dude, a don't know why he is sitting down, like, this is the time to do it. It's time to launch out in the deep, you know? Mm-hmm. . But no, seriously, it all made us like really sit down and just think about what we're doing. And then we had the George folded situation happen and like it provided like, you [00:54:00] know, and then we had election and I mean, we had so much going on.
Then we spent more time with our kids, with our spouse. Hey babe, I don't know you, but it's about, about to get to know you ,
Dan Ryan: and how and how many family dinners did we, did we all have, you know, it's like, who, that's the best thing that I already, I feel like, oh boy, what happened at that time?
Aaron Anderson: But my wife said, man, I didn't know you can on the grill.
I'm like, look, I hope that SAR has you guys eat every night. .
Dan Ryan: Uh, so Aaron, if you were to go back to that 10, 12 year old Aaron working at the shelter, right? Learning about that heart posture and after the journey of Fireman Construction Management, uh, multi-family hotel furlough, now having the 26 CO [00:55:00] as an entrepreneur, what advice would the errand of today give the 12 year old Aaron working at the shelter?
Don't take any moment for
Aaron Anderson: grant. Because it all works out, period. Don't, don't complain about the coordinator position. Don't complain about the project manager position. Don't complain about the internally, right? Like, not that sometimes we meet ourself up, man, I can't believe I'm still here in this place.
I can't believe I'm still doing this. I can't believe I'm here. Or sometimes we, we just have tough love on ourselves, but we beat ourselves up, especially with the Instagram and the Facebook and the comparison. Don't do it. Cause it all works out here. It all hangs out for you. And, and if you, if you treat people right, if you [00:56:00] love on people, if you're yourself, I text, I text Stacy, happy birthday, and she responds.
Thank you for being yourself. I'm like, look, Stacy, I, you aren't supposed to be complimenting me. I'm complimenting you like this is your birthday. Celebrate. But like, like be yourself, you know, like, and, and enjoy life. It goes by that. It happened so fast, right?
Dan Ryan: Totally. It happened so fast, man. It, it was my 19th anniversary yesterday.
Wow. My, my wife was looking at old videos, by the way. We took a lot of pictures. We didn't take a lot of videos. It's crazy, uh, with the phone there. But I remember she was showing, um, she was looking at some old videos of my son and he's like, wow, dad looked so young. And I would say, Ugh,
Aaron Anderson: And what does that mean? I
Dan Ryan: think it means I just look a lot older than I did, whatever that was 10 years ago [00:57:00] when he was a little ar he hasn't changed much. That's the other thing. You look, I ask you how you were at a, as a 12 year old, Or eight year old, or five, I think most of the, like my kids anyway, they are exactly like they were when they were six months to a year old.
And it's just nothing really has changed. Maybe they've learned some words and they can walk without getting stitches bumping into something,
Aaron Anderson: but it it, it's funny you said that. Um, my mom called me one day and she was just kind of in a sentimental place because she sacrificed so much. Right? She sacrificed
Dan Ryan: a lot for us.
Aaron Anderson: Uh, I mean, incredible. And we didn't have a lot. So she sat, I didn't think she had, but she called me. She was like, you know, I was thinking, I remember when you used to just help people at church, like as a little kid. I remember when you used to help like the old little [00:58:00] lady, and she's like, that hasn't changed.
To your point, I think if we raise our kids, we learn from grandma, all those things they imparted in us. I think life works out just fine. You know, don't get ahead of yourself. My wife is seven years younger than me. Right. So sometimes I tell her, I said, just keep living Bain
And then that's what she, that's when she throws a shoe at, but then I say, keep living babe. And what's your wife's name?
Dan Ryan: Melissa. Melissa, okay. You're 110% Melissa? My
Aaron Anderson: 110% Melissa, just keep babe, you'll see where, let's keep looking. Yeah. Cause it
Dan Ryan: shows up and it works. [00:59:00] Uh, Aaron, if people wanna get in touch with you, how do they find you?
We'll put this in the show notes as well, but
Aaron Anderson: Absolutely. Um, so on Instagram, unders 26 Co t h e 26 c o, um, on LinkedIn, um, you can find me under Aaron Anderson. Um, type in 26 code right after it. My email is also Aaron, a a o n, the 26 code.com. So please reach out. Look, I love and have a passion for people.
I love new vendors, by the way. Um, I don't know what it is, but I love new vendors. I love people who are out there risking it all and trying to, trying to come up with something, right? I think that's, I think that's a beautiful thing. I there is security in knowing, you know, established companies as well. I get it.
Um, but there is something said about someone who's willing to lay it all online. Um,
Dan Ryan: yeah, [01:00:00] but they're all awesome. Hey Aaron, thank you so much. Thank you Robin. I really appreciate it. Yeah. And I can't wait to see you in person really, really soon. Medium live. Yep. Here we go. Sta thanks for building that community for all of us.
Absolutely. Um, and also I just wanna thank all of our listeners again. I hope this talk has evolved your view on how to deliver both giving and receiving hospitality, especially this idea of heart posture and openness. Um, I think we all have so much to learn, uh, cuz I know I learned so much. And if you did, please share this podcast with a friend.
Uh, thank you everyone, and we'll see you next time.