TrueLife is a story-driven documentary podcast that explores the invisible threads connecting us to each other, the world, and the mysteries of life. Every episode uncovers extraordinary journeys, human transformation, and the relationships that shape our stories.
George: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast in this beautiful holiday season. I hope the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and the wind is at your back. Today, I have with me Dr. Susie Ross.
Dr. Susie Ross has spent over two decades decoding the invisible architecture of change. She’s the founder of Susie Ross & Associates and author of The Map to Wholeness. Her evidence-based Figure Eight Model of Transformation—born from doctoral research—reveals the predictable phases of deep human metamorphosis, turning pain into purpose and loss into light.
Dr. Susie Ross, thank you so much for being here. How are you?
Dr. Susie Ross: So happy to be here with you, George. I’ve been listening to you for so long—your incredible laugh makes me laugh every time. Your podcast has been an awesome part of my life. I’m pinching myself to spend time with you.
George: Thank you for the kind words. This has been a labor of love for me, and you’re the amazing person today. I’ve been blown away by your model—I’ve never seen anything like it. It makes so much sense in my life and the lives of people I talk to. I’m excited to dive in.
How did this Figure Eight Model come about? Was it from personal transformations or a lifelong pursuit?
Dr. Susie Ross: It started with personal experience. When I was 21 or 22, leading backpacking trips in the Colorado mountains, I had a powerful transcendental experience. I left my body while hiking—no substances involved. I became everything: trees, grass, stars, galaxies. I felt infinite knowledge, overwhelming love, and grounded power in every molecule.
Coming back into my body, I saw a huge storm approaching. In a nanosecond, I thought, “I am the clouds—why don’t I move them?” The clouds parted around us, creating rainbows. It was overwhelming confirmation. I wept, singing Amazing Grace to soothe myself. I didn’t share it for years—it’s vulnerable—but it informs my every breath and my research.
That was in 1991. In 2002, I started my PhD at the California Institute of Integral Studies. I wanted a big question to guide my life. Sitting in ceremony in my redwood circle, inspired by Elizabeth Kübler-Ross’s obituary praising simple elegance, the question came quickly: “How do we integrate life-changing experiences?”
I led transformative travel to Costa Rica and Peru, designing intentional transformation. The research used cooperative inquiry—a feminine, democratic qualitative method where co-researchers (my student alumni) collectively analyze data, multiplying perspectives like a kaleidoscope.
George: Cooperative inquiry sounds transformative itself. Most research funnels through one person—here, it’s shared.
You mentioned the Figure Eight extends Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey. Walk us through the model.
Dr. Susie Ross: The research revealed integration is possible and has distinct phases. We discovered nine integrative phases forming the lower loop of the Figure Eight.
The center is returning home from the Hero’s Journey (upper loop). The catalyst (phase 3) is a peak or trauma.
Lower loop phases:
1. Displacement: First ~2 weeks home—relief mixed with upheaval (e.g., survival-level disruptions like accidents or job changes).
2. Grief and Denial: Denial it’s over (for peaks) or that it happened (for traumas); sadness when facing reality. Can last months.
3. Disorientation: Can’t deny anymore. Tug-of-war: forward steps toward change, then relapse. Identity crisis—old self outdated, new not yet formed. Mind sees potential, but body/operating system lags.
4. Dismemberment: Dark night of the soul. Ego death, structure dissolution. Painful but where magic happens—permanent transformation (structure-building) vs. mere change.
5. Surrender and Healing: Pain softens. Supportive people appear; life eases (e.g., healing childhood wounds through daily circumstances).
6. Birth: Subtle. New self emerges. Three parts: receiving a new archetypal name (offhand comment), recognition from others (stepping into bigger shoes, feeling “I belong”), direct divine access.
7. Abundance and Creativity: Rewards flow in—all life areas improve (relationships, work, health, finances). Gravitational pull of new self attracts opportunities. Busy phase.
8. Power: Systems/people in place. Less effort needed—you’re recognized as expert/leader. More free time, discretionary income.
9. Integration (phase 13, center): Homeostasis. Inner/outer harmony. All polarities balanced. Heaven on earth—light into matter. Embodiment of wholeness.
The upper loop develops masculine (doing); lower develops feminine (being, surrender). Completing the Figure Eight creates inner marriage of masculine/feminine.
Joseph Campbell knew integration was key but hard—most ways fail. The Figure Eight provides the detailed “how.”
George: This map is revolutionary. The lower half feels like the underworld—ineffable until experienced. The language helps normalize it.
In birth, it’s subtle but successful—new structure already complete.
In dismemberment, we touch the divine feminine 24/7. In birth, sacred magic.
Abundance is all-or-nothing—like caterpillar to butterfly.
Dr. Susie Ross: Exactly. Transformation is complete across all life areas.
Upcoming: Transformation One-on-One primer (coupon for listeners), Integration Oasis (6-week circles starting January, repeatable), Transformation Skills Lab (evidence-based skills).
Website: suzieross.net
George: Thank you, Dr. Susie. This is just the beginning—we’ll do more episodes.
To listeners: Check suzieross.net and the book The Map to Wholeness. Hope you have a beautiful holiday season. Aloha!