Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Jennifer Uchendu is an ecofeminist and sustainable development advocate from Lagos, Nigeria. She is the founder of SustyVibes, a youth-led organisation making sustainability actionable and relatable for young Africans. Jennifer is also a pioneering researcher in eco-anxiety, and most recently launched The Eco-Anxiety in Africa Project.
In this episode, I speak with Jennifer about what eco-anxiety is, how power and anti-blackness shape our emotions of eco-anxiety and practical things we can do to safeguard our emotions of eco-anxiety. Grab a cup of tea, this is a powerful episode.
Episode timestamps
00:00 - Welcome to Black Earth podcast
02:13 - Jennifer’s relationship with nature
06:11 - What is eco-anxiety?
09:00 - Why the climate conference in Madrid (COP25) changed her
11:10 - How power shapes our emotions of eco-anxiety
14:52 - What eco-anxiety means for communities most affected by climate change
18:53 - Where’s the place of race in eco-anxiety?
28:55 - Four ways to safeguard eco-anxiety
31:07 - The power of hope and eco-anxiety as climate emotions
35:06 - Connect with us at Black Earth podcast
Support Jennifer’s work
Susty Vibes - https://sustyvibes.org/
The Eco-Anxiety in Africa Project - https://www.teap.sustyvibes.org/
Connect with Black Earth Podcast - https://www.blackearthpodcast.com/
Creators & Guests
What is Black Earth Podcast ?
Black Earth is an interview podcast celebrating nature and black women leaders in the environmental movement. Join us for inspiring, informed and authentic conversations on how we can make a positive impact for people and nature worldwide.
Episodes out every Wednesday. Connect with us online @blackearthpodcast on Instagram, LinkedIn and Tiktok.
Hosted by Marion Atieno Osieyo. Healing our relationship with nature, one conversation at a time.
Marion Osieyo: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. Welcome back to Black Earth Podcast. Black Earth is an interview podcast celebrating nature and the inspiring black women in the environmental movement. In this season, we're exploring our relationship with nature in terms of health, so how nature affects our health, and how we affect nature's health.
Marion Osieyo: And in today's episode, I'm joined by Jennifer Uchendu from Lagos, Nigeria, and we'll be talking about climate emotions in particular eco anxiety. Eco anxiety can be a really tough topic to explore. But I really feel that it's such an important aspect of the way we respond to the environmental crisis and our journey to healing our relationship with nature.[00:01:00]
Jennifer Uchendu: I am so glad to be here that we're finally getting to do this.
Marion Osieyo: I know. Thank you. I know. Could you briefly just introduce yourself?
Jennifer Uchendu: Yeah, sure. my name is Jennifer Uchendu . I'm currently living in Nigeria, founded an organization called Susty Vibes. And you know, Susty Vibes means sustainability vibes. So a lot of work around young people, sustainability understanding and, you know, how we work as young people, as actors and change makers.
Jennifer Uchendu: That really had been a concept of Susty Vibes. Personally, I'm also an ecofeminist, so a lot of my work has to do with gender, women, and, you know, the environment. I like to say that, you know, I recently started working around eco anxiety, looking at climate emotions and what it means [00:02:00] for us as Africans, as black people.
Jennifer Uchendu: I mean, there's so much to unpack there and I'm hoping we get to it here.
Marion Osieyo: How would you describe your relationship with nature?
Jennifer Uchendu: Thank you so much Marion. Such a good reflective, you know, question. I've always seen nature as, you know, like a life support system where this is something that helps, keeps me alive and you know, this is, I mean, nature is people, nature is plants, nature is food, nature is, you know, everything around us basically.
Jennifer Uchendu: And looking at myself as a part of it. , an integral part of it where you know it's a win-win. If I succeed, nature is able to thrive, and if nature thrives, I definitely thrive as well. So it's looking at how can every day in the work that I do, in the ways that I live my conversation, inspire people to [00:03:00] think also like me in terms.
Jennifer Uchendu: Protecting nature. And you know, even just thinking about it as an African and a young woman, you can't take away, you know, how much nature serves me every single day. You know, the food that I eat in, in health, you know, and in just being and living. So I think for me, it's just really looking at nature as a big part of my life and my life as a big part of nature.
Jennifer Uchendu: Thinking about it, Marion, I don't even know how we met, but I think it's also part of those dots. .
Marion Osieyo: I know. It's like, I remember, like I've tried to think, okay, how did I meet Jennifer? I don't know. Yeah. But I just know that I know you and I know it's, I know that I know you and I know it's to do with your work and in, you know, with Susty Vibes.
Marion Osieyo: I think when I [00:04:00] met you, we can talk about it now, but when I met you, you had just finished your master's in development studies at Sussex University? Mm-hmm. You had just finished your masters and your research was on eco anxiety in young climate activists. Yeah. So could you talk more about that?
Jennifer Uchendu: when I finally and I say finally because it took eight, whole years, I got the opportunity to get my master's. You know, I was very grateful, you know, that I had that opportunity to go, come to the UK and, you know, study development studies, focus on climate change and women, it was such a good moment for me.
Jennifer Uchendu: But I left, I think at start 2019. Susty vibes was three. We had done so much in the space, but a lot of young people and myself included, were talking about. You know, feelings of overwhelm, feelings of [00:05:00] powerlessness feelings of frustration that we couldn't, you know, and I, I tried to figure out what would this be?
Jennifer Uchendu: Is this activist burn out? We have that burst of joy every time we come together and do something, but then we go back home and see, watch the news or see what's happening. And it doesn't just seem to get better. How do our actions translate to big transformative change? And I held that thought. We actually had an event in Nigeria before I went to school where, you know, we're discussing all of these emotions, but we didn't know what it.
Jennifer Uchendu: I'm grateful we at least had that space because now as a researcher we know that space to validate and talk about these emotions are crucial and essential for people to name the emotions, talk about how they're feeling.
Marion Osieyo: Can you explain like what you mean by eco-anxiety?
Jennifer Uchendu: Absolutely. And I mean [00:06:00] these days I feel like the word doesn't do justice to the range of, you know, emotions Cause it just leaves you at eco anxiety. I always define it as the different spectrum and range of emotions people get to feel as a result of, you know, direct or indirect impacts of climate change and the knowledge of it, and not just climate change.
Jennifer Uchendu: It could. Biodiversity loss. And while those seem like very technical terms for an everyday person, it could be food insecurity, it could be, you know, pollution, it could be, you know, all of the different ways climate change changes everything for us. And those anxieties, those fears, those frustrations, those anger.
Jennifer Uchendu: Some people would say climate anxiety, eco grief, you know, eco emotions. They all kind of mean the same thing. And I have kind of expanded my own definition to include feelings like [00:07:00] joy and hope because I think there's, those are also very important emotions. I kind of oscillate between all of them at different points.
Jennifer Uchendu: There are times where I'm extremely hopeful about the work that is being done in the world. And there's, there's amazing things happening where you are thankful for humanity and that people are doing this hard work of figuring out, you know, how best to make the planet better and to heal ourselves in the process.
Jennifer Uchendu: So, you know, while those things are happening, . I think my idea of equal anxiety and equal emotions allows me to hold space for both the positive and the negative emotions in it. So that's, you know, how I define eco anxiety. I wonder if that definition would change in a couple more years, but I'm holding onto that.
Jennifer Uchendu: Yeah. Year idea of it as, you know, range of emotions that are fine and normal. Yes, it can get, you know, really bad and extreme. And we see people [00:08:00] do very, you know, you know, we see people do crazy things. We see people get negatively feeling impacted by this emotion. So those are also separate things, but.
Jennifer Uchendu: In its initial presentation where there's worry, there's fear about climate change, about the future of the planet. I, you know, really feel it's completely normal. I think, you know, that's how you know that's you are alive and you're part of a large ecosystem, and that's what's important. Yeah.
Jennifer Uchendu: I had the opportunity to go for. And that was my first ever cop. And it was just, you know, it was just crazy. You know, I found myself literally going home and I'm in tears cause I'm like, why? This was Cop 25. That was, that was in Madrid, in Spain. Okay. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. It was supposed to be in Chile and it was moved to Madrid.
Jennifer Uchendu: Yeah. And at Cop. [00:09:00] Cop was so, you know, it was so weird for me cause I'm like, This can't be, you know, the all in all conference, I've always wanted to attend because I just didn't feel, I felt very deflated at the motivated concepts around youth inclusion and youth participation with very tokenistic, and there wasn't just that sense of urgency.
Jennifer Uchendu: So I left cop. Feeling super, super, super eco, anxious as it were, feeling very overwhelmed. And I guess going back to school, I had to make the decision, do I face this? You know, feelings, head on, research it. Or do I just let it lead me to numbness and complete inaction because at the point I was thinking maybe I, I'll find something else to do.
Jennifer Uchendu: You know, figure out my other talents in life and, you know, just having a happy, nice life and, I decided to do that hard work of, you know, figuring, figuring out [00:10:00] what I was feeling. So I started to, you know, look into eco anxiety and emotions and the more I searched, the more I found things that were very western.
Jennifer Uchendu: You know, it almost felt like to be an African, there's so many other things for you to be anxious about. That was very interesting for me. My thesis was focused on young people in the uk, but it also gave me space to reflect on how I was feeling, you know, and kind of compare and put myself, you know, center myself and how that's different from young people in the west.
Marion Osieyo: So Jennifer, one of the things that I wanted to explore with you and I think it's partly linked to what you were talking about in your research, is how even though eco anxiety can be something that is common for people, the [00:11:00] reason why we experience eco anxiety is motivated by different things.
Marion Osieyo: So for example you know, if you are in a community that's living with climate change right now and the immediate impacts of climate change, your experience of eco anxiety looks different in comparison to someone who's experiencing eco anxiety because they're worried about the future and the future impacts of climate.
Marion Osieyo: You know, climate action and, sorry, climate change and the lack of action that's being taken at the moment in regards to making a difference. And it's also got to do with power and how able someone feels to be able to make a difference and all of that conversation about power and privilege also affects how someone feels eco anxieties.
Marion Osieyo: So maybe they could be feeling anger or fear because they can't make the type of change that's needed or they can't influence the [00:12:00] people in power to be more active.
Jennifer Uchendu: Absolutely. I mean, I was saying, just listening to you talk, that's exactly like, there's a whole paragraph aligns aligned on this from my initial research and my thesis in 2020.
Jennifer Uchendu: So I talk about how power and privilege are very linked with our understanding and experience of equal anxiety. You know, young people talk about even realizing. Their positionality, you know, being white, you know, coming from an affluent or rich and privileged background shields you from some of the realities of climate change.
Jennifer Uchendu: And it's what it is. And there's some, for some people, it presents as forms of guilt and even shame. And you know, on the one, on the other hand, I'm thinking shame and guilt. You know, I don't even know what those means when, we talk about, you know, the climate crisis, you know, I'm more of anger, I'm more [00:13:00] frustration.
Jennifer Uchendu: And that's also from thinking about my own power of where I stand in the power dynamics and map. And you know, how the lack of it or thereof - my own sense of anger and frustration. And it's interesting. It doesn't, you know, there are no kind of right or wrongs. It's just what it is, especially for young people.
Jennifer Uchendu: And in bridging the gap, I talk about themes like rethinking solidarity where it is no longer an idea of. This person from the global office is coming to help. It's looking at us as we're all impacted by this issue. How be it in different ways? How can we work together? But if you don't see it that way, if you think you're helping me, then we're literally just wasting our time, you know, because we're never going to get, you know, to anywhere.
Jennifer Uchendu: We're never gonna work together as equal partners. You're always going to think. You know, giving me aid, supporting me, you know, giving me a, a lead [00:14:00] on, which is not necessarily, I think a healthy way to look at the climate crisis. So at COP 27, for example, there was a lot of conversation around the idea of loss and damage.
Jennifer Uchendu: The fact that even when we block the impact of climate crisis into two major blocks, that's talking about adaptation, you know, helping people cope and then talking about mitigation with reducing our emissions, there are still persons which even after all of those if efforts, they're still not going to be supported.
Jennifer Uchendu: They're still going to suffer a great deal of loss and damage from the climate prices. So, Conversations about acknowledging that this is happening and also providing funding facilities to support, you know, those people, those populations, and a lot of them are Nigeria, Pakistan, you know, Bangladesh, places where you have extreme climate vulnerabilities.
Jennifer Uchendu: And in those [00:15:00] conversations there's also ideas of economic and non-economic loss and with non-economic loss we talk about loss of life, loss of culture, livelihood, and you know, all of those things that money can' t necessarily buy. And I think that really falls on the, you know, eco-anxiety, especially for the global south and vulnerable communities
Jennifer Uchendu: so it's so much to unpack with the emotional burden that all of this come with, you know, and it can be very difficult to translate that for someone who's living in an area where this is not the reality, where there are massive safety nets and insurance and all of that to support when you know, or if this crisis do come to them.
Jennifer Uchendu: So it's, it's a different, it's a different thing. So that, you know, going back to your question, it definitely surfaced . My thesis was working with looking at youth climate activists in the uk and in [00:16:00] particular the spaces where they participate. So I spoke to youth activists themselves. I spoke to their teachers, I spoke to parents.
Jennifer Uchendu: I spoke with community groups like the XRs Extinction Rebellion , you know, where young people would often participate and trying to understand what they feel about eco anxiety and how it translates. And in all of those conversations, they were, you know, deep ideas around, you know, a lack of space oftentimes to reflect on these emotions.
Jennifer Uchendu: And then definitely central to that was power and privilege, you know, and young people in understanding the root causes of a climate crisis. Its roots in oppression, in capitalism and in, you know, colonialism feel extremely guilty and ashamed of their own, you know, history, ancestral history, this in this reality.
Jennifer Uchendu: And, you know, that can, that in itself can be very heavy. You know, I might not be able [00:17:00] to relate with it, but I empathize with feeling, you know, going around with that level of guilt and constantly thinking, what can I do? How can I help? How can I make it a mark ? So, you know, and I. . For me, it's also appreciated that spectrum of eco anxiety and then us saying, well, now that we are here, how do we move on from here?
Jennifer Uchendu: How do we work together and how do we run shoulder to shoulder? And not thinking that, you know, one person or one group of people are superior, you know, to the others. So that has been, you know, a very good way of thinking about eco anxiety as it relates to power and position. Not just stay there to say, well, you know, some people are just lucky and more fortunate, but seeing the amounts of boarding or emotional burden that we all carry.[00:18:00]
Marion Osieyo: Okay. How many other people you spoke to were Black British? Because, there's a lot of, there's a nuance in climate activism in the uk. I Alot of Black British people feel very alienated and excluded from the environmental and climate change space in the UK in part because there is still not an open and explicit awareness and discussion about the impacts of racism not just in climate change, but how that is something that genuinely prevent s people from even having the sense of agency to make a difference on these issues. And that is also a source of eco-anxiety for many black people because it's like, how can, how you know, the same urgency that's being applied to climate change. There's not that same urgency for police [00:19:00] brutality or economic poverty or institutional racism in the healthcare system that prevents people, black people from being able to meaningfully live a life from which they can contribute to.
Marion Osieyo: And it's complicated because yes, you are living in the uk, which is a major driver of climate change around the world, you know, historically and currently with emissions. Yeah. Currently. But it's also that as a black person existing in this space, there's that layer of racism, which impacts your life on a daily basis, but it's also a source of frustration because you know, the climate crisis that's impacting communities and your places of heritage around the world is still not being openly discussed.
Marion Osieyo: And so, There's, I don't know how to explain it, but I feel like there's so much nuance in our experiences, and that's why talking about things like power and privilege and influence matters, not because it's about focusing on the [00:20:00] individual and your individual identities, but it's actually about understanding the whole system and why it needs to change and how it's affecting different people in different. , even if they live in the same space and they are, you know, interacting from a same geographical space, their experiences of climate change and climate injustice is very different. So yeah, I was just inspired when you were speaking about that because of a lot of black people that I speak to live in the uk, it's not shame or guilt that they feel when it comes to eco anxiety.
Marion Osieyo: It's more anger. A sense of erasure because in the climate change space in the UK, race is erased from the discussions.
Jennifer Uchendu: Thank you so much for bringing that up. And it did come up, it did come up several times in my research and it still does the idea of, you know, where's the place of race at [00:21:00] you know, As you've mentioned, there's always that error of saying your eco-anxiety is completely directly proportional to where you live. But not just that, as we've discussed, is also power, positionality and privilege. And the, the idea for me has been, with the young people who are thinking about this conversation in the right way, they're saying, you know, they were saying to me, we would not take away the climate crisis from all, how they put it.
Jennifer Uchendu: Climate justice and social justice are two sides of the same coin. You know, we won't take them apart and for the longest time , the history of the environmental movement has refused to look at the social justice side of things. It's been incredibly, you know, kind of white and just focused on, oh, let's save the environment, but who is the environment?
Jennifer Uchendu: You know, what is the environment? If not people [00:22:00] who are impacted by the environment, who exactly are you saving? And if you, if you wanna look at climate action without looking at how did we get here? And in, in asking that question of how we get here, that's why you see the history of erasure, oppression, you know, extractivism and very deliberate approach to, you know, to kind of exact power over a particular race.
Jennifer Uchendu: When you look at how inconsistent and unfair that reality is, it plays out to our experience of eco anxiety, how it's just, it just doesn't feel right. You know, you can't tackle this problem without looking at the people who are impacted the most. You know, that's the idea of climate justice. Looking at it from a lens of, you know, power and it plays out and comes out a lot in, you know, eco anxiety, especially for black people who live in the global north, who [00:23:00] live in developed countries because you know, ,
Jennifer Uchendu: I remember speaking particularly to a youth climate activist as you know, black British. You know, she talked about just being tired and efforts to include an efforts to engage, often feel very tokenistic because it almost feel like. Oh yeah, let's check a box. Let's have diversity in the room. You know, let's have everyone talk about climate crisis and, you know, let's give space for everyone.
Jennifer Uchendu: But are we really doing that? You know, if we continue to silence the voices that really matter the most, especially in terms of impact and, you know, thinking about the environment just. You know, non-living or, you know, non-living objects that, oh, we just need to protect, you know, and make ourselves feel good.
Jennifer Uchendu: Whereas people are really being impacted because for me, climate action is, you know, social justice is actually supporting people and ensuring that [00:24:00] you know, the next person doesn't die from an impact of air pollution or something that's related to the climate crisis. And we see it on unfold every day.
Jennifer Uchendu: It's a very difficult conversation to have, you know, especially with even researchers, climate scientists and actual environmental ists who for many years have been doing a particular kind of work, and we talk about. You know, it's impossible to not center this reality because it's what it is and that's why there's so much suffering in the world, you know, related to this, and we need to talk about it, and we need to find ways to safeguard this emotions, but also do better moving forward.
Jennifer Uchendu: So definitely I agree with you. It's a big thing, something I'm hoping to even explore a whole lot more because if we don't talk about this very difficult I, I mean, I almost kind of posit that because we've not explored and talked about these conversations [00:25:00] as uncomfortable as they are, we have almost become complacent with the system that has just continued to grow and exploit. And you know, it's just business as usual because the cycle is repeated, certain groups of people suffer. It's just, you know, it's okay. We move, you know, as they say Nigeria, but unfortunately, Every day yet there's a climate conference to talk about the problems, talk about the differences, and it's just business as usual.
Jennifer Uchendu: I recently read about the approval for, you know, the coal investments in the uk and you know, I'm just like, Absolutely crazy. Yeah. I'm like, are we like, I'm like, I'm like, are we, are we even serious here? You know, someone called it, you know, this new wave of climate imperialism almost, where you're literally saying, oh, African countries need to do this, need to do that.
Jennifer Uchendu: But at the same time, you are not making changes. , it's [00:26:00] so kind of, it's difficult to find hope in conversations like that. So I think it's important to talk about them because it helps us think, okay, what's the way forward? How can we engage, you know, meaningfully and how can we think of ways to do better?
Jennifer Uchendu: So definitely, you know, in summary , like we can't take away climate justice from social justice are so interlinked. The young people who have figured this out are now, you know, trying to do things differently. You know, that came up a lot in my conversations with XR, where they talk about, You know, lots of tension between the young and the older people because the younger activists just seem to see things differently and are pushing more for social justice issues to be centered within the conversation and you know, to stop that idea of whitewashing climate change or climate action because it's really it's communities, it's frontline communities that have really [00:27:00] carried this burden in several parts of the world. They are the real climate heroes. They are the real, you know, activists who have for many years advocated for a right to breathe clean air and a right to live at the end of the day.
Marion Osieyo: What are some of the solutions that our listeners can look into if they're experiencing feelings of eco anxiety?
Jennifer Uchendu: Well, yeah, that's a good question. I would almost kind of reframe. If we say solutions, then we're almost saying there's a problem. You know, in thinking of feeling this way, one very effective way is space, creating space.
Jennifer Uchendu: And I mean, the, the, the act of creating space has to be very intentional in the sense of whose voices are going to be heard in these spaces. So [00:28:00] I would almost even advocate for spaces where, people who think the same way, come together to discuss, because there's power in validating and naming the emotion to say, oh, right now I feel very angry and that is how I feel. There's definitely power in kind of letting that out.
Jennifer Uchendu: Concepts around climate cafes, listening sessions and spaces have been highly recommended. It's something we do at Susty Vibes, you know, that we're exploring more and more. We're currently running a project now where we're bringing young people together in spaces, but also bringing them together with older people to have intergenerational space s and see what those conversations look like in terms of supporting and safeguarding eco anxiety. So, so much is happening with, you know, cafes, but again , it has to be done intentionally because there's a risk of, you know, perpetuating the same [00:29:00] cycle in the process, especially if it's not done sensitively.
Jennifer Uchendu: You know, we also talk about climate awareness psychotherapy as ways that can be considered, especially when you know, these feelings and emotions get very harmful. It's not something that's very much elaborated in Africa for obvious reasons, because mental health in its in itself, it's a whole different ballgame and then when you put the two together, it's like, what are we even talking about?
Jennifer Uchendu: So very few people are now thinking of courses that are conceptually relevant for black people. I'm very very interested in that and looking for ways to support that growing field so that more people can get the right support.
Jennifer Uchendu: Community has also been very, very useful. We see that play out with Susty Vibes where, you know, people say yes, I feel the eco-anxious sometimes, but I'm glad that I'm part of the [00:30:00] community. I'm glad there are people I can talk about this week. I'm glad that there are people who are also doing something about it so we're not just stopping and talking about it, we're also going to do something and, you know, putting a lot of our energies into action.
Jennifer Uchendu: While, you know, space making and all of those other good stuff are important, we're really thinking more about the research side of things. Figuring out, you know, for example, what's happening in Liberia when we talk about climate emotions, you know, when we think of the map of the world and emotions, what's playing out in different regions, what's the difference between the rural area and the urban area?
Jennifer Uchendu: How do they perceive, you know, the crisis of climate change or however they understand it. And what does this mean for the future of adaptation? Almost because it's, from how we think about it, there's a large chunk of, you know, the psychological wellbeing and understanding of the climate crisis that feeds into climate [00:31:00] adaptation.
Marion Osieyo: We talk so much about solutions, technical solutions to repair, restore, adapt, mitigate but it's also like this is a very human experience and we are part of nature. So whatever's happening to nature, we surely must be feeling it mentally, you know, emotionally in terms of this breakdown. And I think eco anxiety brings much needed human element into this conversation.
Marion Osieyo: And especially from the perspectives of people who are being most impacted by, by what's happening in the world, you know? And I think it's opening up a space for more just culturally sensitive, and empathetic perspectives on like what it means to, to lose your home, the area that you live in, to lose your culture, your language as a result of ecological[00:32:00] loss.
Marion Osieyo: There's so many things that you can feel when you're feeling eco-anxiety and they can exist at the same time. You know, you can feel anger and you can also feel hope when you connect with people who are doing something, or you can feel determination when you do something with other people.
Marion Osieyo: And I think eco anxiety can be a tool for collective action, collective liberation, if we allow ourselves to experience all the different emotions that comes with us trying to process. What is happening in the world, which is, is so layered. You know, there's so many levels of anxieties as you mentioned.
Jennifer Uchendu: I think for me, what hope does in the climate discourse is that it gives us something to [00:33:00] look forward to.
Jennifer Uchendu: You know, it's different from saying, oh, I have faith in humanity . Like, I literally have hope that things can change and hope that there would be a process, you know, true with this change can, and I can be a part of it because with hope, you are able to imagine and you, you're able to think through, you know, a better world and.
Jennifer Uchendu: Having that as part of the spectrum of emotions is, is crucial because it helps us when we move from, you know, all of the different emotion s.
Jennifer Uchendu: Leveraging on our hope and what that vision of, you know, a better world is helps us to keep going because, you know, I mentioned this being a marathon really, and for me hope is essential because without hope, you know, it's going to be very easy to move to that spectrum of numbness and powerlessness and stay there, you know. Hope is able to you know, [00:34:00] just get us to, you know, come together and think about, oh, what should we be doing?
Jennifer Uchendu: Hope helps us, I think, to live with the climate change because the change is happening, things are changing, and we see that happening in some places slowly, some places rapidly. And with hope you're able to wake up every day and continue to push.
Jennifer Uchendu: Hope helps us to see the humanity in climate action, you know, to see that it's beyond saving polar bears. It's actually about people. It's actually about livelihoods. It's actually about the future of the world and what the world will look like in 15, 20 years. And it helps us think more on a systems change level.
Jennifer Uchendu: So it's not wishful thinking, it's more of thinking about something that's long term that has to do with renewal. I think that's the power of hope and you know, that's the power it brings into this discourse , because it safeguards the emotions in ways that you [00:35:00] always keep going back to, well, this is what I'm working towards and I think it's really crucial.
Marion Osieyo: Thank you for joining us in today's episode. We'd absolutely love to hear what you think. We're on Instagram, LinkedIn, and TikTok at Black Earth Podcast, so please connect with us on your socials and share your thoughts with us. Please subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Marion Osieyo: And also, if this episode inspired you in any way, share it with your friends, your families, your neighbors, your colleagues, your cousins. Because at Black Earth, we're about having conversations that heal. So if something inspires you, it has the potential to heal you. So yeah, please share and connect with us.
Marion Osieyo: See you in the next episode.[00:36:00]