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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:02.07] - Chris Gonzalez
I think many companies, like you said, they get off and they're like, oh, we're going to do everything. I've heard a lot of companies, small businesses, I say, what do you guys do? And like, oh, we do everything. I cringe a little bit and say, No, that's a bad idea. Because then you're not good at anything.
[00:00:19.05] - John S. Berry
Welcome to Veteran Led. Today's guest is Chris Gonzalez, former Marine and President and Co-founder of A-G Associates. Welcome to the show, Chris.
[00:00:28.07] - Chris Gonzalez
Hey, thank you for having me.
[00:00:30.00] - John S. Berry
Now, Chris, what I like about your company is you do a lot of things, but you're still pretty lean. For most Veterans that start businesses after they get out of service, they try to do too much, and they can't handle it all. Tell us about your company and how you're structured and how you do it.
[00:00:45.04] - Chris Gonzalez
We started our company in 2008, and it was just two people. It was myself and my business partner, Peg. We did do everything, but we were pretty intentional about, I guess, the three pillars of business, the first being strategy and execution, looking at helping organizations figure out where they're going, how they're going to get there. Data analytics, what numbers tell the story of success or not success. The third is stakeholder engagement. The majority of work is our public health work. That means they do things through partnerships and grants and community-based organizations and states and all that stuff. So, they can't do things alone. So, we started out doing that. Then we started expanding, and then I was kind of the marketing department and in the HR department and outsourced a lot in terms of finance and accounting. Outsourced IT, still do that. Outsourced any type of marketing stuff and then outsourced any type of HR advice we need and some of the contract work. As we grew, we realized that it wasn't just a one-off thing anymore. It wasn't just a once a month, I need a contract review or a once a month, I need a slide deck.
[00:01:59.13] - Chris Gonzalez
It was quite frequently. So we started 2008, maybe 2015, '16, we started hiring support staff that weren't billable to projects. And then now we have, I think, five... We have four lines of business, again, strategy and execution, data analytics, stakeholder engagement, and then one, we have this big, huge VA mental health contract, which is like half the company, so it's its own a monster. But across, we have accounting and operations, we have marketing, we have finance and business development, and then we have two more marketing or outreach-based things One is a Military Veteran Family Center of Excellence, which again, goes across all three verticals. Then the other is our focus platform, which is a tool that's coming out in '26.
[00:02:57.02] - John S. Berry
You're a Marine. Had you heard of the Army's Maneuver Center for Excellence in Fort Benning. Okay, is that where you got the name or is that... We called it Building Four when I was there as an infantry officer in the '90s. I guess it's Matt Rename, Maneuver Center for Excellence.
[00:03:10.19] - Chris Gonzalez
I've seen different models of centers of excellence, to be honest with you. A lot of them are housed in academia. I've seen them in the military, but I see it a lot in academia. The problem with academia is they have a ton of data, and they don't do anything with it. The problem with the government is They have a ton of data, and they don't necessarily make decisions from it. Our vision for taking all of the different good things that are happening in the academic sector, the government sector, private sector, nonprofit sector, is to be the integrators of all of that stuff. Over the past 17 years, we've developed so many relationships with different subject matter experts. We can get anything in terms of looking at military connected populations and looking at issues that plague those populations and figuring out how do we bring together the right subject matter expertise. I don't want to do it ourselves. I just want to integrate all of it to help address a problem and not just keep doing the same stuff for the sake of doing the same stuff.
[00:04:17.02] - John S. Berry
Yeah, it's interesting. It seems like the data is all out there, but are we using it? Look, data is great. They say it's the next oil. But the truth is, if you don't know how to gather it and use it, it's useless.
[00:04:30.03] - Chris Gonzalez
It is useless. Unfortunately, the private sector, they figure out very quickly how to use it, make decisions from it business-wise, how to get your attention from data. But for some reason, the government is so far behind. I'd say a lot of that is because every organization has their own data management system and all that stuff. Everybody is looking at the same stuff, looking at the same topic, but in different ways and not necessarily talking. For instance, you got Veterans, right? You have Department of Veterans Affairs, clearly the lead, but you also have Department of Health and Human Services. You have DOD, of course, with the transition to Veteran. You've got Department of Agriculture; you've got Department of Labor. All of them have Veteran stuff. I wish I could say they're all on the same platform and shoot a music with data analytics and looking at employment as a social determinant of health and transportation and housing as a social determinant of health and really combining their data for good stuff. We've got some work to do.
[00:05:33.13] - John S. Berry
The one thing that has always bothered me, probably because as a young infantry lieutenant, if you gave an inaccurate report, they'd say, you just gave a false report, and you would get a butt chewing or worse. You always had to make sure your reports were accurate, especially if you were in the field and you needed the logistics support, you had to be able to report that. You had to report your sensitive items. If you were wrong, it was, Hey, would you bet your career on this report? But what I found in businesses, I'm not getting good reports. How is the data wrong? And the truth is, we didn't have clean data. This data hygiene is real. And so when you start talking about multiple government agencies working together, how do you know if this agency's data is clean or not?
[00:06:11.16] - Chris Gonzalez
Yeah. Well, unfortunately, what I see with our government clients is they are so bogged down with administrative and compliance data that many times they're losing sight of the big picture. I'd say that's why we design Focus, which is really looking at performance versus effectiveness. If you remember measures of performance versus measure of effectiveness with Army, is that? I taught that to Marines. It was difficult because Marines are like, They're doers. It's like, if you're doing three patrols a day, are violent attacks going down? If so, then it's having the intended effect. If it's not, then maybe try a different tactic, different strategy. Same with the government, same with our clients is looking at, trying to look at, if you're doing the stuff, you say you're going to do, is it having the effect that you want it to? Are people getting better? Like our Secretary, Colin says, are Veterans lives getting better? How do you define that type of stuff? Having a platform that integrates different data pieces, I think is going to be a good one.
[00:07:20.03] - John S. Berry
So, what's been your biggest challenge? Obviously, you're about 60 people now. Now, you're mostly in about 60, 40 remote, but with 60 personnel. So, you've got the remote in-house challenge. But what are some of your biggest challenges that you're facing?
[00:07:35.13] - Chris Gonzalez
Well, this is going to sound incredibly cheesy, but the song, More Money, More Problems, the very wise, Notorious B.I.G, More Money, More Problems. The more you expand, the more everyone thinks, oh, expansion and more money is great. There's a lot of risk in expansion. As you probably know, as you've grown quite a bit yourself, it seems like when you start with two people whose values align, whose work ethic aligns, whose view on life aligns, then that's a good place to start. But as you expand, I think we've done a pretty good job of expanding steadily instead of quickly. I have no interest in going too quick. An extra 20 people is not necessarily what I'm looking for. But as we expand, it's just finding the same people who really want to do good work, who share your view on relationships and relationships within the company and clients. And then the same, I guess, the same values of being an authentic person and making sure that shows up for our clients as we do this work.
[00:08:42.05] - John S. Berry
And one thing we talked about earlier is client acquisition is important. You got to be clear on who you want your client to be, but then you also have to be very clear on the actions you're going to have to take to get there. For you, with the wide range of things that A-G Associates does, how do you decide who that perfect client or avatar client is for you?
[00:09:04.15] - Chris Gonzalez
I cannot say that we've developed a secret sauce of figuring out who that perfect client is. I will say in the very beginning, we started, we're a Veteran-owned business, right? And everyone says, Oh, you're a Veteran business. You can get Veteran business, set aside contracts within federal contracting. And you're like, Yeah, let's do that. But then you realize there's thousands of other Veteran companies just like you who are really much better than you because they've already been doing it for quite some time. We actually shifted towards Department of Health and Human Services. There's not a lot of Veteran-owned companies there, service-disabled Veteran-owned companies there. We saw that we had a good niche there. We started expanding, again, within the mental health and substance use space. Then we started taking that to the VA and Department of Defense and some others. Really, I think the best way to define a good client for us is for us to make sure that the work, the true subject matter expertise aligns with what we do. I think we do a good job of staying in our lane, having said that, a lot of stuff is done through partnerships.
[00:10:18.15] - Chris Gonzalez
If we see a request for a proposal, we may say, we do this very well, but we don't do that very well. But we know a company that's a great partner that does that very well. Together, it's almost like a one plus one equals nine. It's not just one plus one equals two. We enhance each other's capabilities rather than just doing it, going after it alone.
[00:10:41.12] - John S. Berry
I think that's a great perspective is that a lot of times when we get involved, we think we have a great client, but if we're not aligned and we can't collaborate, it usually becomes transactional, and it can become transformational with the right client. It sounds like that's what you're looking for.
[00:10:56.16] - Chris Gonzalez
I think many companies, like you said, they get off and they're like, oh, we're going to do everything. I've heard a lot of companies, small businesses, I say, what do you guys do? They're like, oh, we do everything. I cringe a little bit and say, no, that's a bad idea. Because then you're not good at anything. Like, law firms, if you have a very complex case, you're not going to fake the funk and try to do it all yourself. You're going to bring in a subject matter expert so that you get the best results. Federal contracting, everybody should look at that. The best results equal the best outcome for my client, which is going to mean more business, more referrals, and expanded footprint of work. But if you fake the funk and you say, I do everything, and you try in a big hurry to hire 20 people with different areas of true subject matter expertise, I believe you're going to fall short.
[00:11:48.15] - John S. Berry
Unfortunately, we've probably all made that mistake where you think you can be everything to everyone, and you get clients who say, hey, you did a great job on this, so I want you to do this other project for me. You have to have, I think, the personal fortune to say, Yeah, I'm not qualified to do that, or I'm not the subject matter expert. Here's somebody who's better at that and making that referral. Sometimes that's the best thing you can do because you can keep that client happy. Sometimes it's like, no, I want you to stay with... But you're like, no, I'm not great at this. You know what I'm great at. You send me more people like that who are great, and then I can provide similar results. But you're asking me to do something I can't do. But I know someone who can help, and they're going to do this better than me. And a lot of times that works out well, and they respect you. But there's nothing worse than you refer to someone who doesn't know what they're doing. When you refer, you lend your credibility.
[00:12:34.19] - Chris Gonzalez
Yeah, unfortunately, sometimes that becomes a trial and error thing. So we're at this conference, we're meeting potential partners, potential clients all the time. You've got to figure out a way to try out that partnership or try out that client relationship. And some people you meet and you automatically vibe and you automatically think, Wow, we work so well together and we speak so well together and we present so well together. But sometimes that delivery doesn't match the promise, and you got to figure out what to do at that point. But there's no way of always telling. I mean, you can ask for referrals from them, but sometimes you got to make the mistakes and quickly pivot away from those mistakes or away from that partnership. That's hard. You know what I mean?
[00:13:24.12] - John S. Berry
Yeah, and I think that's a real honest, vulnerable part of it is that, Hey, we're part of the Veteran community. We want to see our brothers' and sisters succeed; we want to refer them business. We want them to be successful, but we can't just do it blindly. Because at the end of the day, our reputations are at risk. We don't just want to work with other Veteran companies. We want to work with great Veteran companies who believe, and we do, that, hey, Veterans aren't just here to, hey, we want a job after service. No, we want an even bigger, better future after service, and we want to work with Veteran-led companies that understand that service was the beginning. You have the base level of leadership. You have real values. You have the opportunity, a greater opportunity than any of your civilian counterparts to create a highly successful organization, but not everybody's going to do it.
[00:14:08.04] - Chris Gonzalez
Well, I think what I see, especially in the Veteran business space, I'm going to try not to bash anybody else. There's a lot of Veteran-led businesses. Well, let me talk about A-G and nobody else. Okay. A-G values authenticity. If I'm working on a program that serves Veterans. I want there to be a significant part of that delivery team who are Veterans. I still need to bring in subject matter experts for mental health. I need to bring in clinicians and stuff like that. If I'm looking at substance use, I need to make sure that we integrate people who have gone through substance use disorders and keep it authentic. I think people fall short on that a lot because they think that that functional expertise is just as good as the subject matter expertise or lived experience. I do not think there's any replacement for authenticity and lived experience to truly make the delivery authentic and, to me, effective.
[00:15:14.08] - John S. Berry
Outstanding. That takes us to the after-action interview. Your examples of great leadership and poor leadership. You don't have to name names. Let's start with the great.
[00:15:22.02] - Chris Gonzalez
I think some of the best leaders that I've had are probably ones that just know me. In the military, I know you have your name on your camouflage uniform and everything, but leaders who go around and take the time to get to know people, get to know their families. I was in the reserves for quite some time, so even asking about your civilian career, when you truly respect the fact that the person has a ton of other things to do, but they spend their time getting to know you, to me, that makes me want to run through walls. I've tried to apply that as much as I can, too. Now, poor leadership. I don't think poor leadership always comes from a bad place. I think it just comes from a place where people are scared to let go. Like I used in my presentation, the example of the hover parent of a boss, right? The boss is totally in the project manager's business and not letting the project manager make decision. You cripple that person. Same way you a kid if you're tying his shoes at 18 years old. I see that a lot in the civilian side with people scared to make decisions because they don't feel like they can because they don't want to screw it up.
[00:16:40.23] - Chris Gonzalez
They haven't been given the opportunity or even pushed to make that thing. I'd say the worst example is that example of the hover. Get out of the way. Let some other people make decisions. Don't start them off with critical business ones, but start them off with easy ones where they're going to build some confidence.
[00:16:59.10] - John S. Berry
Yeah, that's great. I heard a counselor once say that the helicopter hovering parent is a form of child abuse because you're stunting the development of that child. You are. And if you, as a leader, are hovering and not appropriately delegating, you're stunting the growth of that employee.
[00:17:14.14] - Chris Gonzalez
It's not just employee, it's the organization. As we started to grow, I like being in meetings. I like being involved. I like having a say. I like trying to get out of the way, too. But I did realize that if I'm there in that meeting as a president, people are going to defer to me. So I have to get out of the way. I have to hold back and say... And when people say, What do you think we should do? I have to stop myself and say, You make the call. You know what I mean? It's not easy. I'm saying it like it is, but it's so hard.
[00:17:46.12] - John S. Berry
No, it is so hard. And I found that usually if I can just stay away from the meetings, I'm better. But then you don't know. So for instance, we use EOS, we score our meetings at the end of the meeting, one through 10. And what I find is I look at the scores, and when I'm not at the meetings, the scores are higher. But that could be one of... This is where we come back to data. Let's come full circle. That could be one or two things. The data could say, Okay, John, don't go to the meetings. The team does better without you there. Or number two, maybe the team's happier when you're not there, but are they asking the tough questions. In other words, it may feel much more productive because you're going through a lot more issues, but are we going deep enough? I don't know the answer to that.
[00:18:25.18] - Chris Gonzalez
I think the harsh part is letting go because you care about stuff. You care about the top. You care about the projects and client delivery to make sure they're happy because that leads to more business and it leads to your reputation that you've built. But it's impossible to do all that and do it well and be all those places and to let people truly own that client relationship if you're there hovering. So just saying something like, I'm going to... And also, I felt like I was a jerk, like, I'm abandoning my team. When in reality, I think I'm empowering them. So even something simple like, Listen, I'm going to sit out of this meeting. I want you to come back to me with two choices for courses of action, and we'll choose one together.
[00:19:13.04] - John S. Berry
Absolutely. So, Chris, where can our listeners learn more about Chris Gonzalez and A-G Associates?
[00:19:20.10] - Chris Gonzalez
Well, I'm very active on LinkedIn. So, Chris Gonzalez, G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-Z, not S at the end. You could probably put PMP at the end because there's Gonzalez like Smith, in the Latino world. And then we also have a page on LinkedIn, but www.A-gassociates.Com. We're out of the Columbia, Maryland. So, if you see something in a different state. It's probably not us. And you'll see more in 2026 about the Focus platform as well.
[00:19:54.16] - John S. Berry
And tell us a little about Focus platform.
[00:19:56.11] - Chris Gonzalez
Well, Focus really integrates all three of those lines of business, helping organizations figure out their strategic goals and then translating those bad boys all the way down to doable things like projects and tasks. Strategy is great. It's awesome. Many times, when I do it with people, it becomes these big lofty goals with not a lot of substance. And so, we move from strategic to initiative, immediate substance in doing things that contribute to that successful thing. And then that's been done before, to be honest with you. There are other platforms to do it well. I think where we're different is we have the data that tells the story of success in one platform, in fact, in one view. So, I can look, you and I can look, and you could say, these are the things that define impact for me and my law firm. And we can look at the project plan all the way up to strategy and say, oh, yeah, my people are doing the things they say they're going to do. And if your client intakes are going up and your revenue is going up, we can clearly say, See, that's making a good impact, right?
[00:21:01.04] - Chris Gonzalez
It's making the intended impact. But if you're leveling out or for some reason your client intake is going down, we need to make decisions. Perhaps those are marketing decisions, perhaps those are other things. But let's not keep doing the same stuff just for the sake of doing the same stuff.
[00:21:19.02] - John S. Berry
Outstanding. Chris, so focus is coming out when?
[00:21:22.23] - Chris Gonzalez
January 2026.
[00:21:24.17] - John S. Berry
January 2026. Look out for focus and continue to look for the great things that Chris Gonzalez is doing with A-G Associates. Yeah.
[00:21:32.01] - Chris Gonzalez
Thank you for having me.
[00:21:33.12] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we seek to help veterans build an even bigger, better future after military service. Unfortunately for some of our Veterans, the roadblock to a better future is that they are not receiving all of the benefits that they earned. If you need help appealing a VA disability decision, contact Berry Law.