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Market Pulse is a monthly podcast by Equifax, in partnership with Moody’s Analytics. Equifax hosts bring you interviews with industry experts on the latest economic and credit insights that can help drive better business decisions. Whether you’re in financial, mortgage, auto or another service industry, we help make sense of the latest economic conditions that impact you. This podcast series supplements our Market Pulse webinars, which occur on the first Thursday of each month.
Welcome to a special edition
of Market Pulse from Equifax,
where we break down what's shaping the
mortgage industry today and what happens
next.
Welcome everybody to a special
edition of the Equifax Market Pulse
podcast. We are here at
MBA Annual25 in Las Vegas.
My name is Wendy Hannah-Olson.
I am Senior Vice President
Digital Alliances and
Strategy Execution at Equifax.
With me is Jonas Moe,
Senior Vice President of Marketing at
Ice Mortgage Technology. Jonas, welcome.
Great to have you.
Thanks Wendy. I'm happy to be here.
Fabulous. So there's a lot happening
at MBA annual this year. Yes.
So what has you most excited?
Well, I think the thing I'm most excited
about is that there's energy here.
I think we've been in a tough
period for the last couple years,
so the fact that people are excited and
looking forward to the future it just
brings a whole new level of
energy to the conference.
With that excitement. Have
you done anything new?
Well, yeah. There's a lot that
we're talking about here at annual.
We just just came out with some new
technology that we're really excited
about. We're talking
about our data analyzers.
We're talking about an ai component that
we introduced to customer support for
MSP. Mm-Hmm .
There's a lot of fun and exciting things
that people are going to take advantage
of. Hopefully in 26 that'll
change the industry. Oh.
That's fabulous. So,
with our industry facing the headwinds
that it's been facing and the challenges
you know, affordability
comes to mind, and so on,
so forth being at the
forefront of technology,
what are you seeing
lenders do to help combat?
We were talking before the session began.
We've both been in this industry
for a little bit of time.
I am really interested to see where
the industry goes in terms of adopting
a real end-to-end look at
how we treat borrowers.
I think that's something that people
are right on the verge of attaining,
and that's really interesting to me.
I hear more talk about trying to have
this complete borrower experience where
it's not just about the front end POS,
it's not just about the backend servicing,
but it's treating a borrower
for the whole loan lifecycle.
That's really fascinating to me. I,
I've been waiting for this to happen
for years and years and years, and I,
as I walk around and as I talk to people,
the conversations are naturally going
to that complete borrower experience,
which I am stoked to hear.
Yeah. I can see your excitement.
Yeah. for sure.
How do you envision all of that excitement
and the automation and the end-to-end
that you're mentioning, but yet still
have the human element of the consumer?
I think that for the last couple years,
more than that, last five or six years,
everyone equates the
front end of the process.
That POS process to the consumer
and how we engage with the
consumer on that level. It's great.
We've had some amazing
technology breakthroughs and
amazing vendors that have
brought new automation to that
forefront. That's just a portion of it.
I think we should be thinking
about the consumer holistically.
We should be trying to take the grind
out of the process that happens in the
middleware that happens in the middle of
the process. Underwriting, processing.
Consumers shouldn't have to be asked
for documents over and over again.
There shouldn't be that, that really
difficult part in the middle of the loan.
Where I think we should be putting our
attention is automating the middle part
and making sure that we are available
to the consumer on the front end,
available to the consumer as they
have questions. You gotta remember,
this is still the biggest transaction
that anyone's ever going to make in their
life. Right. Whether it be purchase
or refi. This is a huge deal. So,
for us to invest time and the
consumer isn't a waste, we want to,
as an industry,
close the gap in terms of the amount of
time that it takes to originate a loan.
The consumer doesn't necessarily
want that. They want a home. Right?
And they want their questions answered.
They want to feel confident as they go
into that home purchase or refi. So,
as much as we can reinvest in the areas
where the consumers have questions,
they raise their hands, equip loan
officers to be, be intelligent, engaged,
advocate for the consumer,
and take away all of the grind that goes
with originating a loan that we put on
the consumer. That's where
we're going to benefit.
Take away the grind and be there for
the consumer to answer the questions.
So part of what I'm hearing is, is you
might consider data to be very important.
.
Yes. Data, and I, I'm sure we'll talk
about it in other areas. Data's huge.
Data.
Is huge.
So data is huge. because It, it does
allow for that streamlining the process.
The reality is, I,
I met with our friends at Freddie Mac
last night and had long conversation with
Kevin Kaufman and
Christina Randolph. Yeah.
And they've been great partners to us,
and we continue to talk about the power
of data. Yes. there's insight and data,
but there's also power to streamline
the process and data. The reality is,
a lot of the loans for consumers have
already been done multiple times.
We know the house, we know the
consumer in many cases. Now,
there are new people coming into the
market, but we know these people. Yes.
why are we asking Wendy for you to
put your data in over and over again?
We know you. Right? We know
you. We could trust Equifax to,
to bring data into the, the, the play
to make sure that process moves quicker.
This is where I think there's,
there's opportunity to improve that
we haven't really taken advantage of.
So data is a massive, massive component
of how we automate the industry,
how we create the efficiency
that everyone's looking for,
and how we move the industry forward.
We're not in the days where you and I
may have came into the industry and there
was a thousand file cabinets that
lined the halls of every lender.
Manually merging from data on a
conference call there. Oh my God.
Conference table. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
So, with data in mind, you know,
there is a topic right now that's
going around in regards to Trier. Yeah.
obviously at Equifax, data is,
is what we do, do it every day,
and we see the benefits of
more data benefiting consumers
being able to offer them better
interest rates and so on, so forth with,
with all data. And also less risk to the,
to the lenders and the investors
in the community by not having
undisclosed debt because you totally,
which one do you pick? You know,
there's a lot of talk about
single file right now. Yes. So,
from a technology, in your
experience in the market,
what do you think about
single file versus trimer? I,
I'm going to tell you right
now, Equifax and our peers,
TransUnion and experience, yeah.
We all feel more data is better Yeah.
For the consumer and for the lending.
Well, I, I would tend to trust Equifax,
a partner of ours for me. Good answer.
Many, many years. My,
my perspective is that I've been
sitting in for the last couple years
in the, the meetings with FHFA around
the switch away from the trier
that's been taken off the table.
We're talking a lot about the
Vantage 4.0. I think it's really,
really important that we lean into
trusted partners like Equifax that have
consistent view over the data over time.
One of the things I most worry about
with any change especially something so
important as credit,
is that we don't have the historical
backbone to look at how to price loans.
So I think long term,
the more opportunities that we have to
disposition a borrower, the better. Yeah.
But in the short term,
and even in the midterm,
I really worry that a switch away
from the tri merge will create
issues for the borrower and maybe even
raise short term prices for the borrower.
I think we need, as an industry,
we need to ease into these things and
understand what it means to price out
loans with Vantage 4.0.
With FCO 10 t with leveraging
a single bureau I think we need
to work into those
changes. I think over time,
maybe there is an opportunity
there, but for me,
it's much more important that we
lean into Equifax, to TransUnion,
to Experian,
and understand that this model that
we've had is the foundation for how we
disposition a borrower. Can
it change, can it evolve? Yes.
But doing it so quickly, I think
puts consumers at risk. Yeah.
I tend to agree with you from that one.
So let's talk about Ice Mortgage
Technologies for a minute.
I remember it long ago.
What's next for your encompass
and your entire tech stack?
There's a lot going on.
I think one of the advantages we have
being part of Intercontinental Exchange,
is that a lot of belt tightening
had to occur for a lot of
partners and lenders over
the last three years.
Because we're part of a larger entity.
We've used the last three
years to invest heavily,
heavily invest in technology
and our technology. Now,
we brought together a number of different
components as we formed ICE Mortgage
Technology with mers
and simplify Ellie Mae,
which is the branch of the tree that
I came from. And then most recently,
black Knight.
So we spent the last three years figuring
out how to bring those technologies
together to benefit our lenders
and ultimately consumers.
So I'm really excited about where
we're going with the technology stack.
Our core platforms are merging together
in a way that we've never thought
possible in this industry.
With both origination and servicing the
core platforms for origination servicing
coming together kind of realizing
we talked about earlier.
That end-to-end experience
is really top of mind.
Everything we do at ICE right now,
we want to make sure that we realize
the dream that we had when we bought all
these different companies.
It's fine to buy them,
but realizing that vision of putting
them together in a way that benefits the
process,
realizes ROI makes it easier
for a lender to process a loan,
to service a loan.
There's so many things that I didn't
realize and how difficult it was until I
started to get into the, the weeds
after we bought Black Knight.
It was really hard to onboard alone,
really hard to onboard for whatever LOS
It was really hard to onboard alone.
We've taken that friction
outta the process.
So some of it's basic blocking and
tackling. It's not revolutionary.
It's evolutionary.
We're evolving the way that loans
are originated and serviced,
which I think is going to yield a lot
of positive results for the lender to
lower costs and for the consumer to know
what their data is when their data is
dispositioned and be advocates
for themselves. That.
That sounds fabulous. .
That's.
The dream. You have to give me
a demo later. That's the dream.
So recently Equifax had a
Market Pulse sim webinar. Yeah.
And we got out of it some operational
challenges in the industry and
people really focusing on ai with all
that you just said and the acquisitions
and bringing it all together. And I'm
well aware of Partner Connect. Yeah.
. I hope so.
What are you thinking about
AI and how to help lenders be
operationally efficient just to the next
level than what you've already shared?
I mean, AI is the topic that everyone
talks about and least last year.
I think we're, as an industry,
we're a little opaque on what AI means.
I think everyone's kind of chomping
the bit to feel like, well,
how can I take advantage of this? What
do I do? ICE has done a lot around ai.
We continue to have to build around ai.
We have a circle of excellence that's
looking at how we leverage AI within the
current technology and future
technology we're building. I,
one example is we've had mers for years.
We've had AllRegs for years. We're looking
at ways to tap into the data of mers,
understand how to leverage that.
That's maybe a little future state.
But we looked at AllRegs
and said, well, God,
there's thousands and thousands
and thousands of pages
of compliance regulations
that govern how a loan
is originated. Yeah.
And the AllRegs tool has been
something where almost every lender,
every partner in the industry is leveraged
to some degree, but it's a, okay,
I'm doing a VA loan in
the state of Illinois.
What do I need to do to make sure
that I comply with this VA loan?
And so I'm going through AllRegs to
figure that out. We underst ask Reggie,
which is a an AI component Yeah. To
make that process easier for everyone.
So we've taken existing
technology, existing data,
and just streamlined the flow. There
are other things that we're doing.
We just introduced a call
agent for servicing so that a
borrower
whose loan is being serviced by a lender
can call up and they can work through a
very seamless process to find out what
their loan balance is if they had a,
a late. But it does it in
such a way where at any point,
if it hits a roadblock where
it can't provide the best,
highest quality answer to the consumer,
it flips it over to a person that
can walk that consumer through.
So what that does is it gets the
consumer to da to data easier.
It provides a more seamless process,
and it leverages humans where
they need to be leveraged.
Where we are a little
bit cautious, and we're,
we're making sure that we are
approaching it the right way,
is not having AI or AI
components disposition alone
without a person understanding
what they're dispositioning.
So I think there's ways to automate,
we've done this for a number of years
in regards to our data and document
automation solution where we've taken
the stare and compare out of the process.
But we've always made sure that there's
a human on the other end to review the
information, take away all the
burden of all the work, right.
But make sure there's a human on the other
end of the equation to make sure that
we're not dispositioning
a loan, which again,
is the biggest transaction this consumer's
ever going to make in their life.
We don't do anything where
a human's not involved,
that has expertise and understanding
of the repercussions of what
it means to qualify a
loan, to fund a loan,
to move a loan forward in the process.
That sounds amazing. I just, as
you were saying that, I mean,
I've been a consumer calling
into automated systems. Yeah.
And you get into this loop, like
you ask a question, it answers it,
then you ask another questions
Yeah. And it answers it,
but then it doesn't seem like you
ever get to that human being. Yeah.
So you've actually leveraged AI
to take that leap to make sure it
recognizes when to bring the human in.
Well, you brought up data earlier. Yes.
The power of data isn't just
in the data that we have for
loans that have been originated.
We have a lot of data around that,
but we also have call center data.
So thousands and thousands of calls that
have been recorded over years to help
consumers find out.
And so we actually leveraged all of that
data on the questions that Wendy was
asking the first time she called up
a week after she got her loan funded,
and it was in servicing. And we leveraged
that to figure out what are the,
what's the path that we need to take to
provide a level of service that doesn't
disenfranchise you from a, a actual
human to answer your questions.
But in many cases, you just need to find
out what your current loan balance is.
Why do you have to wait online or on,
on the phone for an hour to an have a
question answered that could be answered
in literally minutes?
Let's talk about credit
scores for a minute. Yeah.
So there's a lot of discussion
recently about credit scores.
Obviously we've had the big announcement
2022. Yeah. The whole industry,
including ourselves, started to get
ready for adoption of new credit scores,
which I think everybody would be
a proponent for. Yeah. You know,
moving forward and getting to more
data, totally scoring more data,
and so on and so forth.
Yeah. As we talked about,
there's an advantage to evolve what
we do to evolve the industry. Yeah.
and I think some of the new credit models,
some of the new things that are coming
out are really interesting. Yeah.
So there is advantages there.
Yeah. The trend of data being incorporated
into scores, that's huge. Yeah.
so can you tell me a little bit about
what ICE Mortgage Technology is doing in
regards to where you currently are? Yeah.
On the score journey to
support the industry?
Well, I, you're not going to like this
answer, but we're, we're going to,
we're going to lock lock
hips with you guys. We,
we've are in constant
conversation with FHFA.
We meet with Fannie and
Freddy often every week to,
to talk about issues like this. But
we're really relying on Equifax.
We are obviously trusted partners,
but really as a guidepost we don't want to
accelerate or be an accelerant to a
process change without knowing the
ramifications.
And so it's really important for us to
lean into our trusted partners that have
so much experience dealing with credit
and understanding your perspective
on what those changes mean for the
industry. Where we should put our weight,
obviously ice and ice mortgage technology,
one of the things we're known for
is making sure that we're completely
compliant. Yes. With our software, we
put a lot of weight behind that arrow.
But it comes through our partnerships.
It comes through understanding what those
changes mean and working closely with
our partners like Equifax. I.
Love that. I absolutely do.
Well, it's a really.
We don't have all the answers
today. That's fine. No.
We don't have all the answers.
. Yeah, that's totally fine.
So there's something that
you may not even be aware of.
So we're hearing in the mortgage industry
that some people would like more data
in regards to getting comfortable. Yeah.
Equifax actually has developed
some crisis period data.
So for those of us that have been
around, my God for a while, oh God. Yeah.
We go back to May, 2007.
No way. During the meltdown.
During the meltdown free meltdown.
During the meltdown. After the meltdown.
So I'm.
Having flashbacks to some
bad times. . Yeah.
You know, I didn't think
about even mentioning it,
to be honest with you. Yeah.
But so much of the synergy in regards
to data and how important it is to
improve, you know,
the technology stacks and the
processes and AI and everything.
I just thought I would
share with you that Oh.
That's.
Great that we've done something. So.
I think what we talked about earlier,
there's so much power in data.
I think one of the
things that scares me is,
is change without understanding
consequences. Right?
The fact that Equifax can bring that
to the table and understand here's
what these new credit models
would look like based off of past,
I guess what we're missing,
we're missing that perspective
on what it means to the industry
to originate a loan,
leveraging a new credit model.
And you don't know until, you know, but
apparently with Equifax, we do. We know.
We know , .
Well, Jonas
I think you've gotten me excited about
it's what does the future hold for
our industry? Yeah.
I know we have a lot going on and the
headwinds and everything that we're
dealing with, but I still,
I'm still optimistic that we
have a lot of passionate partners
like yourself that are
going to help push the,
push us forward. And I
really appreciate that.
I want to thank Jonas for joining me
today at the Equifax booth at MBA Annual
25. It's clear,
while the mortgage industry is facing all
of these real challenges we have great
partnerships that are
ready to move it forward.
And I really appreciate your
time, and thanks for joining us.
Thanks, Wendy. We have great
partners in the industry.
We have a great group of lenders here
too. Yeah. They, this industry is great.
And it's you mentioned the
cyclical nature of the industry.
We're always ready to adapt.
We're always ready to change,
but we do it together.
So I appreciate joining you
today or joining with you
today. It's, it's amazing.
It's amazing. Good conversation.
Good conversation. Thanks, Wendy.
The information and opinions provided
in this podcast are intended as general
guidance only, and are subject
to change without notice.
The views presented during the podcast
are those of the presenter as of the
date. This is recorded and do not
necessarily reflect official positions of
Equifax.
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using the contact desk box on the
investor relations section@equifax.com.