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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Affirmation
Jesse French
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French, one of the hosts here and joined today by my good friend, Chris Bruno. Chris. Hello, sir. How are you?
Chris Bruno
Hey guys, hey Jesse. Good to
be with you. I'm good today, how are you?
Jesse French
I am good. I am good. Well, sometimes in this conversation in this podcast, lots of times even we just kind of try to use the normal everyday things of life as some fodder, right? For some conversation, hopefully to be somewhat practical, right? And not too philosophical. Yeah.
Chris Bruno
not always like theoretical and there are very few things in this world that are really practical. So we're trying to be practical.
Jesse French
We are we are and you and I are people who we can we can appreciate the nerd out into some of the deep drive of things. So so today I this literally happened, you know, an hour ago. I was driving my two daughters there in middle school and it's summer, right? And so as many parents do,
Chris Bruno
Good.
Jesse French
you kind of find the like summer activities for your kids. And one of those was my daughters enjoy basketball. And so the local high school was putting on a camp, right? Like a four day camp for elementary and middle school kids. And our daughters were like, yeah, sure, we'll go to that. And so, you know, real simple, a couple of days, two hours in the morning. So I'm driving my daughters to the high school. Some more backstory there.
Chris Bruno
Mm-hmm.
Jesse French
The local high school is actually the high school that I went to. And so as I'm driving up to the gym, the whole flood of memories are coming back, right? And you know this about me, Chris, I have a nostalgic bent to me. so I do. And so all of those nostalgic. Good question. But the the the spot was taken, so I couldn't. But I tried. Yeah, it's all there.
Chris Bruno
Yes, you do. Yes. And you park in the same spot that you always parked in?
Okay.
Jesse French
But all of the nostalgic feelers are like, you know, going off and feeling warm and fuzzy. So I walk up and they have the little check in table, right, where all the campers are getting checked in and there's the coaches there that are putting on the camp. And I walk up and I'm not surprised by this. I know they're the coaches, but the two, would say, really like.
primary and I played basketball in high school there. So I went to high school there, played basketball there. So that my two primary coaches when I was in high school are there at the check-in table. Again, not not surprising to me. And I see them. I haven't seen them for a while. And so just start catching up with them, right? They have they're still coaching. They have daughters that are now playing on the team. And so so I talk with them for
I don't know, 10 minutes. And I get back in my car to drive to the office to go have this conversation. And I was so aware of like, man, obviously the nostalgia and the memory flood is there. But even more so that talking to these coaches, and these were coaches that were incredibly influential in my life. Like,
One of them, I went to that same camp, one of them, when I was in fifth grade, and one of them, began coaching me in sixth grade and just poured belief into me, poured coaching into me, but just really was like, man, I believe in you. And then the second one too, when I was in high school, like the same thing, just so grateful for their presence, for their belief.
And so I get into my truck this morning and I just was aware of like, man, their affirmation both meant so much to me and like, I just craved that, like to hear from them that affirmation and driving to the office just was sort of taken back to that space, right? Of like, here were two very important men in my life.
Chris Bruno
Hmm.
Jesse French
and their affirmation meant a ton and even, even was then kind of going through of like, could feel the, well, I've, know, I want their affirmation now. I hope my daughters play well. I'm like, dude, just like chill, slow your roll. is, ⁓ but I bring that up just because, I think just this, the, the concept of, of affirmation, of belief and approval from other people.
Chris Bruno
Yeah.
Jesse French
Gosh, it feels like such a powerful thing in our lives. And I think there's a lot there that would love to just kind of noodle on with you today.
Chris Bruno
Yeah.
Wow. Well, I, I love that you got to see those two men today. And, and you said you weren't surprised. And yet it also sounds like the impact of their presence was a little bit surprising. Right? That there was you knew that they would be there. And so you used an interesting word there, Jesse, and that was affirmation. And so like,
Jesse French
I know.
I think that's right. That's right.
Chris Bruno
Unpack a little bit why you chose that word. What was it that they offered you?
Jesse French
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think...
I think I use that word because when we think about the coaching realm, right? And the athletic realm where a coach is coaching a player and they are.
trying to get the most out of their players right and see them as individuals grow, right? There is the...
just that that dynamic of being coached right and and the in with sports right the very measurable sort of like response to that right like did you win the game did you score the point right like it's very very objective in terms of that right did you even did you like learn the play or or do the skill that they're trying to teach and so there's this constant loop right of of
coaching and input and then response from the player. And then based upon the response, right? It's either, hey, you did it right, affirmation, good job, or no, you know, correction type of thing, right? And that affirmation of you're doing it right, like when I was in high school, man, I I ate it up. Like that loop.
Chris Bruno
Right. Yeah.
Jesse French
of receiving input, trying to put in the use to receive the desired result of that affirmation. And so I think I use that word because it feels, and it bleeds in some good ways and is overlaps, but it is the like, you're doing it right. Like the affirmation of you are doing the thing right.
Chris Bruno
I ask about that because what you just said a couple times in a row was you're doing it right, you're doing the thing right, but it sounds like the meaning these men had for you was not about you being a great basketball player.
Jesse French
Correct. And I think that's where I, that's some of the bleed, right? Of like, yes, the context was in a sport, but I say, like they wrote, I have letters, multiple letters from them that they would write like in the off season of like them saying, Hey, we're, so grateful for your presence on this team for, and so, right. So that's some of the bleed, right? That it wasn't just good job on your technique and you, you know, did these skills, but more like
Chris Bruno
That's... Yeah.
Wow. Yeah.
Jesse French
No, you're who you are. We're glad to have you and you mean a lot to us. So I think that's some of the the bleed out of more than just some of the skill. was no, you matter, right?
Chris Bruno
Right. And I think that what you're naming right there and what we're getting at is I think the difference between that above the waterline kind of recognition of your external skill, reality process, whatever that is, and affirming that versus what your heart is actually hungry for, which is below the waterline and so much larger.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bruno
right of who I am as a person, who I am as a young man in the making, like who I am, who I am versus what I do. And we talk, people talk about this all the time, right? Like this is not a new concept, but the, those coaches could have affirmed just your sport, but not your person. And, and I think we're hungry for both, right? We want to have people say, job.
Jesse French
Right. Sure.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Chris Bruno
well done. And we also need people to say the other things and to affirm the other things about us.
Jesse French
This is...
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think I would imagine I mean, it was true for me. I think we learn, right? Hey, that the the doing or the external can be a dependable way of of producing some of the the the bleeding line right of like, yes, the external is recognized, but it
it can bleed into the deeper question of the person, right? And so it's like, well, heck yeah, I'm gonna continue to put forth effort and to allow that to keep coming because it is some of the external, but then it does seep lower into some of the deeper desire.
Chris Bruno
Yeah. How was it for you? Like, what was your conversation with these guys this morning? Did it start to go below that line again? Was there some muscle memory of what that felt like to approach that line?
Jesse French
I mean, I think, so I'll use a different metaphor.
Chris Bruno
Because we love metaphors.
Jesse French
We love metaphors, right?
So, if you're familiar with dogs, Bear with me here, bear with me. Like certain dogs, certain breeds, like have this significant desire to please, right? this, and the converse of like a harsh word or a harsh word towards them will just be like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
Chris Bruno
you
Jesse French
but they just want to please so, so badly, right? I've had dogs like that. I've had dogs who aren't like that. And, and some of them it gets really annoying, but that's another conversation. but I think some of the muscle memory was, was just thinking like, man, I, even in the conversation I had an hour and a half ago with them talking about what I'm up to talking about, you know, where, where my daughters are in school and, and
basketball and things like that. And they're not hardcore at all, which is, which is totally fine. But I could feel the like, I, I would, I would love to have that like his affirmation 20 years later now even right of like, Hey, tell me more about your job. Like that sounds really meaningful or and that's awesome that your daughter blah, blah, blah. Right? Like that muscle memory of, of craving that was, was like riding a bike.
Chris Bruno
Is there something about the affirmation that you received from them before that you can still today draw on that same well in your current experience as a man?
Jesse French
Mm.
Chris Bruno
Can you remember affirmation and bring it from the past into the present?
Jesse French
Mmm.
Man, that's a good question.
I think...
Chris Bruno
I go ahead.
Jesse French
I think so. Someone when I was was driving to the office after that was thinking through, you know, the phrase that you've said before, like, look, we're all the ages we've ever been. So like that 16 year old that played basketball and crave that affirmation, right? Like, he's still in me. Right. And so I think when I when I'm aware of that, I'm like that he hasn't left.
Chris Bruno
Yep. Yep.
Jesse French
And that affirmation that meant so much to him then, I think it is possible to say like, yeah, those words that I receive, what I receive from them, then their belief in who I was. I think it's possible to draw from that and to like, and what I'm processing in real time, right? It's like, what does that look like to?
to receive that again, right? Or to draw on that again and not just get on the hamster wheel of needing to spin that up from some other source.
Chris Bruno
Yeah.
Well, the reason I'm asking that is because I, I know in myself that I, there's a, I just talked about the, you know, drawing on that. Well, it feels like the, the whole inside of my heart is always empty and can always take more affirmation, more of that, you know, recognition, more of that blessing. And I will never tire of receiving more. Okay.
Jesse French
No. It's like
Insatiable, right?
Chris Bruno
It's an insane and I think that's how God made us is to always long for that for that blessing for that affirmation of of in this in these terms like these two father figures for you. I think it can be mother figures as well but but to always long for that. And I also think that when we have a perspective that that affirmation is scarce. Then then we are then we're we become more.
Jesse French
Mm.
Mm.
Chris Bruno
desperate for it and we start to do the more performance-based things in order to get it just like we did when we were that 16 year old basketball player. But what if instead of having a scarcity mindset, we had like an abundance mindset around God's affirmation of us through the years, through these people and allowing us to continue to draw.
on that affirmation that was offered to us at one point that can still meet my need today. And it's not that we should stop hungering for it more of it today, but I think there's something about remembered affirmation that I can still feast at that table.
Jesse French
Mm.
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris Bruno
And it can still meet me today as I'm driving from work after dropping off, you know, the kids and it is does that make sense?
Jesse French
Yeah.
Yeah, it totally does. think that the those words around scarcity and abundance land for sure, because it feels so true.
to have a view of like, there's not enough of that. And so I need to kind of like ring the rag, right? Of the wet rag for like whatever drops of affirmation there can be versus like, no, there's a well there, right? That can be remembered, can be like called upon again.
That it, yeah, that that resonates with me because it, and it, and it is like, it, and it throws a little wrench in the, in the operating system in some ways too, right? Because the, the performative response is ingrained, right? To be like, well, there isn't enough. so go and.
Chris Bruno
And so because
there's not enough, I need to go back to my other muscle memory of how do I get more? And that just starts a process.
Jesse French
for sure.
sure yeah Chris what has it looked like for you
you know, today, this week, this month, this year, whatever, whatever time period you want to choose, but like, as you have sat with the role of affirmation in your life. and yeah, like, like how, does some of this land, what, what space, do you find yourself in related to it?
Chris Bruno
Mm.
Well, I think all of us long for affirmation. So, and maybe there are some of the listeners right now that don't, and if so, let us know because we'll give you a gold star and ask how you got to this. Like, how does that happen? And so for me, you and I are different in this. Like, I don't have as much performance-based affirmation.
Jesse French
Yeah, teach us your ways. Teach me your ways. Yeah.
Chris Bruno
muscle memory as you do. And I think that's mostly about how we were the shaping of our boyhood. I did not play a sport. I did not have coaches. I did not have that kind of, you know, learn the skill, do the thing, get the affirmation, do it again, get more affirmation, like all that, that I didn't, I don't have that repeated process ingrained in my life and story. And so like, I don't know the last time I,
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bruno
I went to my high school. I when I graduated high school was the last time I went to that high school. So there is that. But for me, the place of affirmation is less about what I do and more about I'm longing for people to, and again, I don't think this is just a me thing, but I'm longing for people to identify that they like being with me.
Jesse French
You
Hey.
Chris Bruno
not like what I do. Because I feel like some of my pain growing up was that I didn't grow up in a family that liked being with me. And no matter what I could do in the performance area, it didn't change that. And so there's something in the affirmation of, I just want people to like love being with me. Go back to the dogs thing, right? Like this is why I like dogs better than cats.
Jesse French
Yes, preach, preach, whatever you're say, preach.
Chris Bruno
There's a lot of reasons why like,
there's a lot of reasons why my dogs are the cats. But, you know, cats are kind of like, whatever, I don't care that you're home. But dogs, all of my dogs throughout my life have just been like, my gosh, you walked in the door, I am so excited to see you. And my last dog would like, yelp in with joy and like spin in little circles. And I'm like this, I need more of you in my life. Like, can
Jesse French
For sure, for sure.
Chris Bruno
So next time, Jesse, when I walk in the office, can you yelp and spin? And I'll be prepared to take a video for everybody to, you know, anyway, but for me, it's more the affirmation of like, your presence here is good. And I like being with you. I think at the core, that's really what all of us want, that I like being with you, you are well, I affirm you as a person.
Jesse French
Absolutely, yes. I will, yes. Gladly.
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bruno
So don't think it's any major difference. It's just the shift. It didn't get tied as much to the performance for me. Because even when I did perform, there was no impact. And so that was a little bit different for me.
Jesse French
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
What might be some of your invitation, Chris, as people listen and as they identify their own desire for affirmation, like we said, and have some recognition of like, man, is this longing for that. Obviously, all of our stories are different in terms of how that was met, if that was met, you know.
There's a lot of particularity there. But what would some of your invitation be for people that do consider like, yeah, that's true in my life. Yeah, what words might you offer?
Chris Bruno
Yeah,
I think the first thing I would say, Jesse, and you kind of throw your thoughts in here too. I wonder if. Affirmation given is affirmation received and what I mean by that is I think there's a reflexive nature nature to our words and our postures towards other people. And so if you're hungry for that affirmation, like I said, I think most of us are. I think a good place is like.
How affirmative are you towards others? How are you in that? Like what are your words of affirmation to the performance maybe, but also to that below the waterline, like what's going underneath there to the person. And it's interesting, like if you want to be loved, love. If you want to be affirmed, affirm. If you want to be blessed, bless. Like there is this,
Jesse French
Hmm.
Chris Bruno
this dynamic in the gospel of let's go first of, and Jesus was this great model for us, right? We love because he first loved us. And there is something about that. first, he went first, he first loved us. And so our reflex of love back, let that be part of the everyday. And so as you're imagining the basketball today, like how are you stepping into that affirmation with other people?
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bruno
Because I think the other piece that we get into is we get into a place of bitterness or resentment of because we have that scarcity mindset or that this expectation that there won't be enough. And so I, you know, I can start to get bitter about that. I can start to feel like, does anybody, you know, like me? Does anybody see me? Is anybody noticing what I'm doing? And that just kind of drives us further away.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bruno
from the very relationships that we are longing for. I think the first invitation would be like, be mindful and be intentional about how you're offering those things, not how you're hoping and expecting them to be offered to you. That would be the first thing. And then the second thing is back to what I said to you, like, have you always been bereft of affirmation?
Jesse French
Yeah.
Mm.
Chris Bruno
Or are there moments, even micro moments, where there have been words offered to you, blessings given, affirmations given, that you can pull out of the past and bring into the present as a remembered affirmation of like, I can still draw from that. I can still pull the goodness because there is enough goodness embedded in those few words to last a lifetime. And that doesn't mean those have to be the,
Those are the only words you're ever going to get. But can they still be alive today?
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah, that feels like some sort of wonderful, mysterious quantum physics hack of God that like this, these, this event that happened years, potentially decades before, like can be experienced again freshly like in the present. it is, it's...
Chris Bruno
Hahaha
Well, we
talk about this, so this is what PTSD is. Okay, so an event, a traumatic event that happened in the past still triggers me in the present. So if it can happen in those traumatic moments, why can it not also happen in those glory moments? That I can have, I used the word muscle memory earlier, like you could, many people might, I included,
Jesse French
Hmm. Hmm.
Hmm.
Chris Bruno
Might drive up to my high school and have PTSD muscle memory happen rather than the like nostalgic muscle memory that you had. And so the past is always still present and you just said quantum physics. I mean, when we have a timeless God. The goodness is also timeless.
Jesse French
You
Hmm.
Chris Bruno
that's always available for us.
Jesse French
Hmm. Hmm. Which... I'll put you on the spot here. What?
What happens neurologically, when, not the PTSD reliving side of it, but the goodness, the joy, re-revealing in, like what happens in our brain when that happens?
Chris Bruno
literally, goodness and kindness, the presence of goodness and kindness grow our neurological pathways. It's almost like fertilizer to the garden of our minds that grow the neurological pathways towards, towards that goodness even more, towards that like, settled towards that connectedness towards that sense of well being. And, and so even
when we remember moments of goodness or moments of connection from the past, that still grows those neurons. And it happens right now in the present. If we are in a conversation where I'm affirming you, like that happens right now, I'm bringing kindness to you right now, neurological fertilizer. If we remember something from the past, neurological fertilizer, towards the sense of like,
Jesse French
Hmm.
Chris Bruno
I am well, I am connected. Things are integrated inside of me.
Jesse French
Hmm. Remembering is a...
An exercise that increases our capacity to be able to receive, to offer, to enjoy goodness.
Chris Bruno
Yes. Yes. And this is where, you know, we first Corinthians Paul talks about faith, hope and love and faith is based in the past.
Hope is based in the future. Love is based in the present. And so all throughout the scriptures, God is calling us to remember, remember, remember what has happened, the faithfulness, the presence of God in the past to build our faith so that we have more trust, we have more sense of like the goodness will happen again. Right? So that's why remember is the
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bruno
a huge call throughout the scriptures because he's like, I have been good and I will be good. And if you doubt that I will be good, remember that I was good.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Which, is it not coincidence, right, that like, that is the place that like evil in the garden at the very beginning goes and plants out, right? Like, God doesn't have your best intentions in store.
Chris Bruno
Right.
Yep. Yep. Exactly. Yes.
Jesse French
What is he withholding from you?
Hmm.
Chris Bruno
So Jesse, today in front of God and all of these witnesses, I affirm you as a man of God whom I love, whom I am well pleased with, right? And I'm sure you can sink a great three pointer and that's not the only goodness that you bring.
Jesse French
You
Come on.
Thank you. Thanks Chris. Thanks for tuning on this today.
Chris Bruno
Yep.
Absolutely. Go get your girls from their camp and see what happens.
Jesse French
Okay, I will do that.