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In this revealing episode, Jess and Scott dive deep into why a messy house is a major trigger for Jess. They explore how their different upbringings shaped their attitudes towards cleanliness, with Jess craving order while Scott is more relaxed about clutter.
Jess opens up about feeling overwhelmed by visual chaos and struggling to be present with her kids when the house is messy. They share practical strategies they've found helpful, like setting boundaries around eating spaces and getting rid of excess toys.
Listeners will gain insight into managing their own triggers around household mess, communicating needs to partners, and finding a balance between cleanliness and embracing the chaos of family life.
Get 10% OFF parenting courses and kids' printable activities at Nurtured First [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/] using the code ROBOTUNICORN.
Learn more about the Solving Bedtime Battles course here [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/solving-bedtime-battles/].
Credits:
Editing by The Pod Cabin [https://thepodcabin.com/]
Artwork by Wallflower Studio [https://www.wallflowerstudio.co/]
Production by Nurtured First [https://nurturedfirst.com/]
Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
I was gonna start the show before you got into your question by just saying hello.
I feel like the last few days have been super busy.
I feel like I haven't actually like sat and talked to you in a while
Maybe you don't feel the same, maybe you've just been so happy that was.
Okay.
Here we go.
You're laughing, but I can sense Scott, we're gonna talk about this after the episode's over.
Oh no, we're gonna talk about it now.
Oh okay.
Don't you feel like we haven't really seen each other the last couple days?
Yeah, it's been kind of busy.
Getting ready for uh vacation
Yeah.
And kids stuff, camps, work.
I just What did we do on the holiday weekend?
We just had a holiday weekend.
It was so chaotic.
Yeah, I guess we I feel like we've had it too much going on lately and it's just been feeling a bit chaotic.
What would you think?
Well you notice how rare it is that I actually plan any outing for the family.
I know, but I don't even feel like I've been trying to plan these things with just things just keep coming up and then all of a sudden we're doing something and
Fine, it's all good things.
It's like a play date that our daughter has lined up with a friend of hers, so then we go.
Or all of a sudden our daughter wants to get chapter books from the library, so now we're taking a family trip to the library, but with three kids at bedtime.
That turns into chaos.
Yeah, that was probably not our finest decision.
No.
That was definitely not our finest decision.
No.
So I just feel like we've
been doing a lot of like little things, nothing big, but it's just been filling up a lot of time and and then with the summer holidays being here, the kids are going to bed later.
And so we're not having that same downtime at night because the kids are up later.
And I just feel like we haven't chit-chatted in a while.
So how's your heart?
Ew.
You don't like that question?
Not really.
I text that question to my friends.
You text how is your heart to your friends?
I do.
Heard it here first, folks.
I don't think that's a bad thing.
That is the most you thing I've ever heard.
Imagine getting a text from a friend
Hey friend, how's your heart doing today?
I can't imagine any of my buddies text uh well now that we've said this and this if this goes live then I probably will, but I can't imagine any of my buddies texting me
Asking Scott, how's your heart today?
Really?
Like once a week I'll probably try and text a friend and be like, how's your heart feeling?
And they respond to that seriously?
Yeah.
I fail to see how this is funny.
What it you have to see it.
Okay, I see it a little bit, but
Anywho.
Wow, you really rambled on on the in this intro.
You haven't even answered my question.
I believe this is what's called a cold open.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn.
We are so glad that you are here.
As always, let's start the show with a question from Scott.
Okay, so since you won't tell me how you're doing, why don't you tell me your question that you have for me?
You sure you're ready for it?
Well you know what the topic is on.
And by the way, I'm gonna figure out how you're doing as this interview goes on, so
It'll happen when you lease the camera.
Okay, my question today is why is a messy house so triggering for you?
I think this is common, but
Yeah.
For you specifically, I know and I've seen how triggering a messy house is.
So what is it about the messy house that
Yeah.
Makes you rage clean and get annoyed with the mess.
Okay.
So there's like two levels.
So on the surface level it's like
I would probably just say, Well I like things to be clean.
I don't like to have a messy house because I like it to look clean and I
Don't like to look at clutter and it's overwhelming when there's things everywhere.
But I feel like there's, of course, something deeper.
going on as always.
Wow, really?
It's surprising.
Actually, yeah, let's just roll the credits right here.
Oh, that's why I don't like a messy house.
But what's deeper?
I feel like I've reflected on this so much over the years because genuinely that is one of my biggest triggers is when the house is messy.
I feel like you understand that more now.
Well, I've always kind of understood it to a point.
To a point.
But I feel like you've actually
you get it a little bit more now, wouldn't you say?
I feel like when we were first married, it was more the counter will.
You think that's what it was?
I don't know.
No, for me I think it's more I like things.
Organized.
But you know, I've become apathetic towards the whole idea of organization.
As soon as you have kids, or you have Jess as your wife, organization gets thrown straight out the window.
What?
Is that false?
It's interesting to me about myself that I'm not sure.
If you look in my corner of the house.
Sorry, I don't mean to cut you off.
But in the same sense I do.
If you look at my small corner of the house that you gave me for my hobbies, everything is lined up.
I have like a little 3D printed stand for all the things.
It's nicely organized and nobody touches that area
That's what I like.
It's like the idea of a restaurant.
The I don't I'm gonna butcher the uh pronunciation of this, but the Mison Place, like everything in its place.
Yeah.
I like that idea.
Well I feel like the difference between the two of us is
You are organized, but you can be okay with like the toys are out and we haven't done the dishes from dinner yet.
Like you in your mind you're like
I know we'll get to it.
So I'm fine to just be present with the kids even though it's messy.
Whereas for me, I'm like, I can't be present with the kids mentally.
It's something I'm working through when it's messy
And so my problem becomes I get so overwhelmed with like the visual clutter that's going on with the mess that it's hard for me to switch my brain from like it's so messy in here.
And that's okay
I can cope with it.
It takes ten minutes to clean it all up.
We'll do it once the kids are in bed.
It's so hard for me to work through that.
So then I end up trying to clean the mess while the kids are
still making a mess and then I'm getting frustrated with them and I have a hard time resting.
Like you always say that to me, right?
Like, well
be with the kids and I'm just constantly cleaning, tidying, oh quick, let's like bring the broom out and sweep up the floor.
I think I have a hard time just existing with them.
I kind of I can understand based on the house we have.
It's a nice house, but it's not situated well for like we don't have a room for the kids to go
play and do the playroom.
It's all the same area.
It's like our kitchen and the TV like rec room area is all just one big room.
Yeah.
And so whenever they make a mess, it's like they're drawing pictures and it's just covering the dinner table.
Yeah
Well, like we don't have a ton of space for them to go and play and make a mess in a certain specific area.
Right, and you can like close the door and be like, this is a room where the mess is.
Yeah.
like the mess is at the kitchen table.
It's in the living room and I can see it all from the kitchen where I usually am, like doing stuff, the dishes most most of the time.
And so I feel like part of the struggle and I think that this was especially a huge problem for me during the pandemic.
Yeah.
When we were home
all day every day and I felt like it was just snacks all day every day and we couldn't really leave the house and go anywhere.
And
we had just one space kind of for the kids to play.
And it just is like no matter what, it was never clean.
That honestly was so hard on me mentally.
I feel like I really had to face a lot of my
Well and big triggers in the case.
During that time I had some huge equipment installs that I was gone for like months on end.
So I felt like my entire job was just
cleaning after the kids.
Yeah.
And I still feel like that sometimes when we're home, you know, like when we're working, we don't have that, which is one of the ways that I find work is good for my mental health, because I just I find that to be very difficult
And that is a part of having kids is that it is messy.
So I know that like we'll get there.
But a piece of what's been helpful for me is just trying to, as we call as therapists, radically accept
some of these things that we can't change and one of the things I can't change is the fact that kids are messy.
Like that's just part of it.
I feel like that's kinda their job.
Yeah, exactly.
And it's their job and I don't want to be the mom who's like, don't make a mess.
Meanwhile, it's a child's job to play and make messes.
Yeah.
And again, I think it's just our house is not we don't have like a big house with lots of rooms for them to or like a a specific playroom or anything.
It's just
Where we are existing.
Yeah, but no matter if you have a playroom or not, I mean the amount of snacks children require and had dinner, like it's just it's gonna be messy.
Yep.
So I think for me having the break at work where I can have cleanliness is actually nice and I feel a little more equipped to handle it.
But I do find it hard because we get home and then we make dinner and then immediately it's mess.
It's funny you say that.
Have you seen your desk
I have actually go look at it.
It's very tight right now.
Yes.
Ever since I switched desks, it's been great.
Oh that's good.
So
Are you annoyed with this conversation now?
Yes, I'm gonna try to make a point.
You keep interrupting me.
I lost my train of thought now.
Oh boy.
Okay.
Anyway, I think going to work is good for my mental well-being in that way.
Yeah.
Because when I was home full-time with the kids, I struggled with that.
But I still struggle with it on the weekends and in the evenings.
And so I kind of wanted to talk about it today to see if you can help me unpack like what's going on with me.
Like why is this such a struggle
I feel like there's so many things in parenthood that I've I'm able to cope with so well.
Like we've talked about sleepless nights.
I can handle that.
Yeah, mess is always the one that mess is always the one you struggle with the most.
Yeah
So I've obviously thought about this a lot to try and understand why and some tools that have helped me because I know a lot of parents listening to this, if I talk to parents, like mess
being a trigger is one of the biggest triggers for so many people.
Yes.
So I think there's a couple of things.
First, I think I get easily overstimulated by like just the look of it.
And I think that that is a sensitivity that we can have.
Like I am more sensitive to even like the lights, right?
Like we've talked about that on other podcasts.
Like
the big lights being on all day, that's gonna overstimulate me.
I'm gonna be really sensitive to that.
So it makes sense that along that same note, when there's visual clutter everywhere
Like there's things on the counter, there's things all over the floor, there's mess everywhere.
That that also would feel over-stimulating and overwhelming, just to the senses.
And I think especially when I'm talking about dinner time, like that's the time I f I start to get most overwhelmed.
And I struggle to like sit at the table and eat with the kids because I just know the counter's a mess from the dishes
The kids are making a mess all over the floor.
Like it's just like mess central at three children at dinner time.
I think the visual clutter is so high.
And it's also I have less capacity because it's the end of the day
Th at breakfast I don't feel the same way.
Usually I'm okay with it.
But by dinner I'm like, I'm toast.
Yeah.
So I think that's one piece that's really
difficult for me.
I think the other piece is because I'm more irritated by the mess.
I'm usually the one to start to clean it up.
Whereas you're not as irritated by it, so your fine's like, oh I'll leave it and I'll clean it up in a little bit.
Like you will clean it.
Yep
But I am more like I want to do it right now.
Yeah, I'm more the one that wants to clean it once the kids are in bed.
Right.
But I actually spend with them.
But I feel like I can't rest and spend time with them until it's clean.
Yeah.
So we have different things.
So then I think when I'm seeing the kids spill Cheerios on the floor.
Now they've spilled milk on top of the Cheerios and now there's like rice everywhere.
Like all I'm seeing is like this is work for you.
Jess, you're gonna have to clean this all up and you're gonna be the only one to do it.
And then I start to feel frustrated because I'm like, I'm the only one here.
And I know it's not true, but this is where my mind goes.
I'm the only one here that's gonna be cleaning up this mess.
This is so annoying.
It's gonna take me 45 minutes to clean up dinner
No one's gonna help me.
They're all gonna be playing.
And my mind goes through that, even if that's not true.
And I used to be really bad for then I would just start to rage clean and I wouldn't ask anybody for help.
I would just be like, if I'm gonna do it, then I might as well just get started.
Now I feel like I'm a little better at being like, okay, everyone, we're all gonna clean up dinner together.
Let's do it as a team.
So that's helped a lot
But I think a lot of parents who truly are like I actually have you as a really great partner, but I do need to tell you what I need.
But a lot of parents truly are the only ones who are the ones cleaning up.
all day.
And so of course when your child's making a mess and you're already feeling overwhelmed and overstimulated and you're like, I'm the only one that's gonna be cleaning this, it makes sense that that would feel triggering.
I feel like you can even get deeper with that always.
Always.
And I feel like the even deeper level of I'm the only one cleaning this is just this feeling for me of a lack of control over the situation.
And I think mess often signals this lack of control.
Like I can put boundaries in place, we can put expectations, we can teach them to do chores and stuff like that.
all important, but I can't control how they eat and spill rice all over the floor.
And that's their job, to make a mess with toys everywhere or to
See what happens if they take a marker and color on the wall, which happened to us the other day.
Like that those are all their jobs as kids and that's all out of my control.
So if you are someone like me who does tend to lean to
towards the being a perfectionist, wanting to control things and have things a certain way, having kids is a test of releasing a lot of that control.
And that can be really hard.
Yeah, 'cause I feel like you very easily could put undue pressure or unnecessary pressure on your children to constantly be clean.
And I don't know if this is based in any fact at all.
But my theory is as soon as you force your kids into becoming these like neat freaks that are they have to do things a very specific way, you start to stifle their creativity.
I feel that.
And I think that's another piece why it's so hard for me because I do believe in, and we can talk about this more, holding children responsible for cleaning up their own messes.
Yeah.
But I truly don't believe in stopping them from making messes and getting angry at them for just being children whose job is to play and be creative and
make messes and be loud and be silly, all the things that overstimulate me is their job.
So I think that's also where it gets really hard because my own feeling in my body conflicts with my values.
So then I feel like I have to try and like
push that down.
Yeah.
Well it's even our middle daughter the other day.
She wanted to help get our like the toddler some milk.
And so she took the cup out and she took the milk.
We have milk jugs here and like
bags of milk that we put inside of a jug.
Yeah.
It's Ontario, Canada.
That's what we do.
Yeah.
Look it up.
And she set it all up and I could see her from the corner and she did it really well, but she spilled the milk everywhere as she was pouring it.
Right.
and then brought the cup of milk over and then she's like, I'll clean it up.
Mm-hmm.
But I feel like if we were worried about that, like
You could potentially tend to say, no, I'll just do it and so you don't make a mess.
Absolutely.
I have said that.
But for me, I'm seeing that and I'm seeing her build motor control 'cause she's trying her hardest to get it into the c
cup and she's missing a little bit or she's pouring a little bit too much and all of a sudden it shoots out further.
So I'm seeing all of these connections building in her brain as she's doing that because
because she was making the mess.
Yeah.
And now I'll bet you the next time she does that on her own, it'll probably go a little bit better.
And she'll just continually get better and better until she no longer is spilling.
I feel like that's a better way for her to learn
Mm.
Then us to be like, no, here I'll hold it with you.
Yeah.
'Cause it's I mean the reality is she spells a like a tablespoon of milk.
Who cares
Yeah, it's easy to clean up.
And if we never give our ch kids chances to make a mess and try it on their own, then how are they gonna learn to do it on their own either?
And so I feel like that's again like one of the big tests in parenting for me is like I have to allow them to do these things and make messes and try and like another good example is cutting things
Like they're very into cutting things right now, which is great.
Again, good skills to build, motor skills, all that kind of stuff.
But man, is there tiny pieces of paper everywhere in our house?
And last week I felt like I was getting ragey because I just kept stepping on these tiny pieces of paper and they're getting stuck on my bare feet.
And I was like, ah, kids, just clean up your paper.
You know, I was getting so mad without having taken a step back and being like, okay, it's fine if they cut, but I can actually set the boundary in advance that hey if you're gonna cut up paper
it's also your responsibility to clean it up.
And and do it at the kitchen table.
Yeah, and you keep it at the kitchen table.
Right.
So there's parameters around I can put those parameters in place and I need to follow through with them
And there's a piece of me releasing control.
So I think both are true in this situation.
So why do you think mess such a trigger though for you?
Like you say it's a lack of control, whatever.
Is that what you were like as a kid too?
You required things to be orderly or you required things to be clean or like what caused that in you?
As a kid I was not clean
at all.
My parents always have have a clean house.
Like they value being clean.
Now or then too?
Then too.
Okay.
Like I feel like they were always clean.
My mom always had boundaries I think that were very appropriate in place.
Like you have to make your bed in the morning
That was a boundary and I will do the same boundary with the girls as they get a little bigger.
You even have that boundary with me?
I have that boundary with you.
Like I actually think things like making your bed in the morning
I'm so glad I learned that from my parents because I think that there are certain things about having that that kind of routine to your day.
Like I get out of bed, I make it right away.
And for me, that's always just been something I've done since a child.
And so I would say my parents had a clean house and we had a lot of responsibility around helping things stay clean.
So we did chores as a family on Saturdays
So everyone had a job and I value that still and I would do that with the kids.
I think what was hard for me and what I'm still unpacking about myself
is that I like things clean, but I really struggle with organization.
And I don't know what that is mentally about me, but I feel like there's something there.
But I've always struggled to just be organized and keep things like whether it's the files on my computer to the sheets in our closet.
I struggle with the organization part of it.
My brain struggles with that
I don't know what that is and I wonder always I also always struggled with like math and spelling and I don't know if all of that
connects or not, but that's been something I've been really thinking about lately.
I'm like, I wonder if all that all connects because I've always been good at certain subjects like English and psychology, all that kind of stuff, but I've struggled in other areas
that requires a little more like mental organization, like math and even spelling.
Like it I would always get a couple letters mixed up and I always would struggle also with just organizing my own self
Mm-hmm.
So I was like that as a kid and I was often teased for it.
By my family, I think they thought it was cute
Like I think they were teasing me not in a way that was malicious to them at all.
Like they thought I was cute and unorganized and I don't
hold it against them because I understand that they just thought they were being funny.
But I think for me, the way they tease me, calling me messy Jesse all the time, hurt.
And made me not want to ever be messy.
And so even when you were just joking right now about my desk, like that wasn't funny to me because that that does trigger me, right?
Like
I don't find jokes about me being messy funny, even though I know I could lighten up on it.
And my family knows this.
This is something that they will still sometimes bring up and they know that as soon as it's brought up, it's like it's immediately too far.
Like I'm
Your face drops instantly.
Like they bring that joke up, but instantly I'm like, nope, that's not funny to me.
I don't enjoy that.
And I just it's always something I've struggled with.
with.
So I think when you say, is there something deeper there, I'm sure being a child who struggled to keep myself organized and my room organized, even though I did value being
clean, I'm still have that inside of me as an adult and I don't know necessarily it's my own journey that I'm on right now.
why that part of my brain struggles so much with the organization and and all of that.
And so I think it comes out and like I want to be clean.
I don't like those jokes about me and I don't want to have a messy house
And I feel better when it's clean, but it's also a struggle.
Does that make any sense?
Mm-hmm.
What do you think?
What's your take on that?
I mean you were even just teasing me now and I didn't respond well to it.
So you've seen that So I apologize.
It's okay.
Is it?
We'll see.
We'll see, yeah, exactly.
No, I mean and for the most part I take jokes.
I'm very self-deprecating, so I take jokes about myself very well.
Like I have a very self-deprecating sense of humor, but
For whatever reason, that one.
Yeah, now people know your kryptonite.
That's my kryptonite.
Yep.
Now they know.
And I know it gets me because there's truth to it.
But I think the thing and I know everyone's gonna be diagnosing me with something uh listening to this.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Because I already get that all the time.
And I don't know because I have never got assessed for anything.
So, you know, maybe there's something there, but I don't know.
Because I have never taken that path for myself.
But it's just something that I have been thinking about a lot lately because of those struggles that I have
Yeah, I wouldn't know.
When I compare myself to you, like we're just so different.
Like we're very different.
Like to you organizing, you just visualize it in your brain like boom, that's how it should be organized.
Or math.
That always came so easy to you, whereas like I struggled.
Like it took me it was so hard for me to learn that kind of thing.
I did it, but it was like I needed intensive tutoring and support.
Whereas something like writing, English, psychology, that all just comes like it just clicks for me right away.
So I don't know.
Well, I think for me, the organizational piece has been ingrained in me mostly because of the
chaotic childhood that I had, I can pinpoint the fact that it was 100% a way to cope with that and try and make order out of chaos for me.
And it's still very satisfying for me, even now, organizing things, having things in their place.
It just feels comforting to my body and my mind.
Yeah.
To have things in their proper place.
Yeah.
But I feel like I have lived in like a mess that is hard for people to understand.
Yeah, maybe that's the level of mess that I lived in that like anything that we deal with in our house is basically nothingness.
And I know like the dishes will take five to ten minutes.
Cleaning up the toys will take like two minutes.
Right, whereas for you like
Not to speak from you, but like you had like days of dishes piled up on the bottom.
Yeah, yeah.
We it would when we cleaned up like fully, it would take us hours, hours and hours to just clean up the mess in our home
Right.
So for you you're like, Jess, it's literally just the dinner dishes that are sitting in the sink.
It's gonna take us five minutes and we have a dishwasher.
Yeah
You know, like it'll take us five minutes to put in the dishwasher.
So I think that's where our mentalities are so different around mess.
You're like, this mess is nothing.
It's it's a wipe of the counter
in five minutes putting something in the dishwasher.
Whereas for me growing up in a cleaner home, I'm like, no, I just like I would like to maintain a level of cleanliness at all times.
That's also probably the reason why I'm adamant about not having more than we need.
So if there are things that we never use.
We try and donate it or sell it on marketplace or do something.
We get rid of it because it's not necessary for us
Because it just I know based on what I grew up in, the more stuff you have, the more difficult it is to actually stay clean.
I wonder I'm I'm kinda thinking about everything that we've been talking about and I wonder if for me part of the mess is like
tying my how good of a job I'm doing as a mom to like the tidiness of my house.
Like I don't know if there's like a piece of like worth
That's tied into it.
Of like, I feel like I'm doing a good job and everything's going well and smooth when it's all clean
And we're just like nice and calmly playing.
Like to me that's like the ultimate.
Whereas you don't have your worth or like any value or anything like that tied up in in how messy it is, because you're like
No, it's good.
The kids are playing.
That's good.
That's what they're supposed to do.
Oh, we had food.
We had dinner as a family.
Like I feel like we have two different lenses that we see it from.
Probably because of my own issues with like organization and stuff as a kid.
I'm like
No, like I want to be good.
I want it to be organized.
I want it to be clean.
I want to feel good about myself.
Whereas your childhood was super messy and like not
Clean at all.
Whereas you're like, no, like look, our kids have toys to play with.
We had a dinner as a family around the table.
Like how great is that?
Like this is positive.
So we view it from different lenses.
Yeah, and I mean
If we have people over, I'll try and make sure it's clean and not dirty and like I'll wipe things down and vacuum because I also don't love having stuff
stuck to the bottom of my feet.
No, and I mean nobody does.
So But there's different levels, right?
There's like my level that's like the second I have it it's like raging.
Our little office that we had in the base do you remember that?
Like when we first started dating in high school.
Okay.
Do you remember
our downstairs office what that was like sometimes.
Yeah.
It was like literally stuff covering the entire floor, the entire desk.
And that's on growing up in two different
Yeah, we houses We did not have that like nice, neat, clean house.
It was the exact opposite.
Well I remember you loved coming to my parents' house because it was always clean and the
And maybe that's like part of two what I'm trying to recreate.
It's like I actually really loved that about my childhood.
It's like my house always was clean.
We always were ready for visitors.
Like we were always kind of in that state.
My parents have and had an open door policy.
People were always in and out.
So are you then remembering what your house growing up was like as like a teenager?
And into like when you were in university and that's what you're remembering?
Because I I question how clean was it actually when there were three of you and you gotta tell me.
Yeah, seven, five, and two.
I have talked to my mom about it and I do think being clean is always important to her, but she has told me to stress less.
So even my own mom is like, just
You gotta stress less about this mess.
Like and a mantra my own mom told me that helped was like toy mess takes five minutes
And that that's helped me actually so much.
My mom said that to me because I called her once and the house was such a mess and our daughter, I we had a baby at the time and I was like, mom, I can't handle it.
There's toys everywhere
She goes, Jess, I always just remind myself, Toy Mess takes five minutes.
Just visualize, yeah, sure, it's everywhere.
It looks so chaotic.
Do you set a timer?
In five minutes, this is cleaned up.
Yeah.
So that has always helped me when it seems like there's toys everywhere.
It's just like, Jess, this is clean in five minutes.
So like don't stress for two hours about it when you can clean it in five minutes.
It let me take kids.
Even if they dump all of our little square bins that we have with all the toys, it doesn't even take five minutes.
If it's all of us doing it together, it takes us two minutes to do it.
So we don't have that much stuff that it would take us that long.
Hey friends, so at pickup last week our daughter asked Scott a truly
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So on that note
I wanted to share some of the strategies because I know a lot of parents relate to mess being a huge trigger for them.
Mm-hmm
And I think that there's some strategies that yes, I still struggle with this, I'll be honest.
Like it's still something that I internally have to work through and I don't rage as much to the kids anymore.
Like sometimes No, just to me
Yeah, to you sometimes.
But you know what's happening and sometimes you're like, Jess is just gotta ride this out.
And it's it's always worse when there's other things in my environment that are chaotic, like work is stressful.
Yep.
It comes out in rage cleaning the house
And sometimes that movement is just like what I need.
So sometimes you're like, I'm just gonna let just do this.
We don't talk.
I just clean the whole thing after the kids are in bed and then I sit down and like
Okay, now I can talk to you.
What's up?
So sometimes I just need that, but I am no longer get so angry at the kids about it and I want to share a couple things that have really helped me.
So
that mantra about the toys taking five minutes, that has helped me a lot.
And I just repeat that to myself when I feel overwhelmed with that.
Having some boundaries with the children around
different things has helped me.
So for example, one of the boundaries that we recently set was we can only eat food at the kitchen table.
Yeah.
Because I found myself getting so frustrated 'cause it's like
Like, girls, spilt yogurt on the couch.
Or we have a big salsa stain on the carpet.
Yeah, again the problem is we have just one like open room.
Yeah.
So the girls would take their chips and salsa and wander over to the living room and now I have salsa on my carpet or ketchup or whatever.
And then I'm getting angry, but I'm realizing wait, that's not fair because I haven't set that boundary with the kids.
I haven't told them
Yeah, and I would say that's a realistic like that makes sense.
Yeah.
It's a logical boundary to logical boundary.
And we told the kids, hey, some things are changing.
One of the things are like we have to eat at the table
Okay.
We're making too many spills on the carpet and the couch and it's important that we sit at the table.
And we're trying to be better at family meals.
So not just like whipping them a bowl of cereal and saying, Okay, go sit on the couch and eat it.
No, like we're gonna have family meals.
We did it.
I mean I felt like as snacks especially.
You know what I think made the biggest difference for us?
So we did two things.
One, we said we eat at the kitchen table.
Yeah.
We also had stools at our island.
And
We actually sold those.
Yeah.
And I would say since we got rid of those huge.
The amount of mess that we've had with respect to food or like even the stuff they're playing with.
Now they don't have the opportunity to sit at the island.
Yeah.
So the island is literally just for cooking and that's it.
That made a huge difference.
We sold the stools that we had and we said we only eat at the kitchen table and I think that has made a huge difference for us
Huge, like massive difference.
I think the thing with the island stools was now sometimes they were sitting at the island to eat, so then there's all food dropped on the floor underneath the island and then sometimes they're sitting at the table and like there's so many different spots and the island
stools were causing more clutter.
Yeah.
They were never nicely tucked in.
The girls were tripping over them.
So Yeah, they fell off them too many times that Yeah, they kept falling off them.
So that actually has really decreased our frustration.
Along that note, talking about the clutter, we've also been purging a lot of toys and donating them.
Yeah.
So that also is helpful I would say, like if you're finding yourself getting overwhelmed often with the mess.
Ask yourself like do I really need
all of these toys.
And you can do a toy rotation.
I've done that before too, where it's like, okay, let's put some toys away.
We'll we'll tuck them in storage.
And then once a month we'll switch 'em out.
That way there's new toys coming out.
Like you could do that.
You could donate some toys if you have extras to donate.
Of course I know that's like a privileged position as well.
But I know
The girls for us, they would just get a lot of gifts from people.
Yeah.
We rarely buy them any toys.
When's the last time we purchased a toy from the did we even get them?
Yeah, we got like a little one for Christmas.
Yeah.
But that was it.
Like Scott and I try and be pretty minimalist, but they also have a lot of aunts and uncles and grandparents, again, a huge privilege who give them toys that
fill up the space.
And when you don't have a big playroom space and that's all in your shared family space, which is totally fine and very normal, it can feel very overwhelming when it feels like everywhere you look there's this big giant toy
So we've been purging a lot of the toys and I think that's been really helpful too for both of us and for the kids.
Now I find they have less toys and they play better.
There's less visual clutter for them as well.
Something else I found really helpful when I was a stay-at-home mom, and that's probably when the peak of this mess struggle hit me, was building in routines and rhythms around when I cleaned
Because I found when I first became a stay-at-home mom, I just like I explained earlier, I felt like all I did was clean all day long, right?
I'm cleaning up snacks, I'm cleaning up bottles, I'm cleaning up toys, and I felt like I never had a chance
to just sit and rest or play with my kids.
So I started building in little rhythms in my day about when I would clean.
So they could play the toys all morning and then right before nap time or before lunch, I would tidy up all the toys with them
So now before lunch, everything's tidy, we're starting from a blank slate.
After lunch, we would do all the lunch dishes, and when they napped, I would try and take a little rest myself.
And then the next time I would clean up all the toys would be right before dinner
So just having those two times in the day when I knew that's when I was gonna tidy up and start fresh again, that helped me not feel like I just constantly had to be cleaning up as they're playing all day long.
So having little little rhythms built in.
Something else that helped me when I was a stay-at-home mom feeling really overwhelmed by this was just having little baskets.
in different rooms where let's say there'd just be laundry, like sometimes the kids just are taking off their clothes, throwing it on the floor
And you're like, why is there dirty pants on the floor?
Why dirty dresses everywhere?
So I'd have little baskets that I could just throw things like the dirty dresses, the socks.
So that it wasn't just on the floor.
We have one in every bedroom.
Yeah one in which makes sense.
Yeah we have a basket in every bedroom and a basket in the living room
And then at the end of the day, I could take all the clothes upstairs and put them near the laundry.
So again, it's just like a little thing so it reduces the visual clutter.
It has a spot to go.
But you don't have to constantly be going up and down, bringing things to the laundry basket all day.
So that also really helped me.
Is there anything else that you
found helpful or you think has helped me?
I don't know what's helpful for me.
Like I said at the beginning, I like the idea of Misun Plus where it's everything has its place.
Yeah.
That's helped.
I've tried to implement that and we have a spot for like all the coloring stuff.
Yep.
And we even have it separated by like we have markers in one bin, crayons in another, pencil crayons in another and we know like
Our youngest really shouldn't be playing with the markers because they end up on the wall.
So we have them kind of separated in different spots for that.
Yeah, so that little piece of organization has helped because now it's like
Well when the toddler's coloring, we're just gonna take out the crayons.
Okay, the toddler's napping.
Older girls you may play with the markers because you're not gonna color on the wall with it or lose the cap.
So simple little changes like that to just eliminate your need to get frustrated and say, ah, you've lost all the caps for the markers.
Those types of things have definitely helped as well
And then I will say something else that's been helpful, it's kind of like a two-parter, is a asking for support and cleaning when I'm starting to feel overwhelmed.
It's like we talked about in the Why Are You So Defensive episode, you can't read my mind.
Yeah.
So if I'm starting to feel like, oh my goodness, this is all on me to clean this up, instead of just raging about it.
It's a quick question.
Hey Scott, do you think we we could clean this up together and then we can play with the girls together?
It's quick, it's easy.
You're always willing to help.
But you can't read my mind if I'm like getting angry about it, right?
Well and sometimes I'll say, Well, maybe let's do this after so we can play with the kids first.
Yeah.
And then sometimes I j for me, I just have to be okay with that.
And there is a piece of just accepting the chaos that's very hard.
Yep.
But it is an important part of parenting.
It will change over time.
Kids become less chaotic the older they grow up.
Exactly.
And someday we'll miss it, right?
I don't know that.
I'll we'll listen to it after.
It's about you're gonna miss this, you're gonna want this back
And I always laugh and I think like in the most chaotic moments of parenting, I'm like, am I really gonna miss this?
I'm gonna miss a lot of things.
But I don't know if I'll miss it all.
Certain aspects of it we will miss for sure.
Absolutely
Like when we live in a perfectly clean house where everything's organized and put away, I think we're gonna miss the days that we're filled with this chaos.
Yeah.
And so I do try and remember that.
Like it's chaos, but that means the kids have had food
And that's such a privilege.
They have toys, that's such a privilege.
They have the ability to play.
That's such a privilege.
I know you're rolling your eyes.
But I find that those little mindset shifts help me.
Maybe they don't help you, but like
remembering what mess means.
It means that they're having an amazing childhood where they feel safe enough to play and that's the most important thing.
Right, what does dinner dishes mean?
It means that we were able to feed our children a meal and spend time with them and nourish their little bodies, you know.
Like it's easy to look at mess and be like, it's just chaos and they don't care about the house and you know, these little brats, they just are spoiled rotten.
Yeah.
But that's not what it is.
Probably have to think of that outside of the moment, especially for yourself.
I need to practice that mentality so that in the moment I can access that mantra
Because if I'm not actively thinking about this and reflecting about it outside of the moment, there's no way in the moment that I can do that.
Yep.
And I think for parents too who feel like 'cause I've felt this way and I've know friends of ours have expressed this
that your body's on fire when that mess and that overstimulation hits.
Maybe it'll also take a moment for yourself to just pause and
Like for me, sometimes I literally have to go upstairs to the bathroom and take a break from all the chaos.
Because the mess just adds to the chaos.
Turn the lights off, take some deep breaths, so that I can come back in.
Like regulating that feeling in your body too
Well.
I think that's a lot of tips.
That's a lot of tips.
Take what feels right, leave the rest.
But I hope that this episode helped you.
And it helped me reflect on some of the reasons why this is hard and know the work that I have to continue to do in order to uh work on this trigger.
has to continue working on herself.
Even me.
I feel like I'm always working on myself.
But it is That's life.
That's li it's an important part of parenting and I know we're always picking on Scott, so it's probably good that there was a chance.
Are we?
I don't know, I blackout during these.
I don't remember any of what we talked about.
Yeah, well, usually we're talking about your trauma and triggers.
Oh, true.
True.
Anyway, let us know if you can relate to this at all and if there's anything that you've found helpful in terms of mess and clutter and coping with that as a parent.
We'd love to hear about it.
Thanks for listening.
We'll talk soon.
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