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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:We have some emails today. First, this one, they said they listened to tribal return, which is the one where we we talked with our oldest daughter as we prepared to leave for her Africa trip. They said, I sobbed this whole episode. You're killing me with the attunement to Mary. I know that the trip didn't go well, and I'm so really sad.
Speaker 1:But you have to know that you did an amazing job preparing Mary. You talked about history, systemic racism, autonomy, feelings, worth, and I just I don't even know. I think this is a sign that I need to talk to some of my younger ones inside with a similar level of compassion you have toward your own outside children. I honestly don't even know right now. I'm sobbing.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I know that they were saying that they were crying and need to be more compassionate to the others inside after listening to that, but that hit me like a ton of is it bricks, Cements. Bricks or cements. I think it's bricks. And I thought, oh, we need some of that compassion juice too.
Speaker 1:So thank you for that reminder because, oh my goodness, it's really hard sometimes to be sensitive to those others inside and especially some little ones sometimes. The same listener listened to the follow-up episode we recorded with the husband about what happened in Africa, which was both amazing and also tragic. They write, I have zero words. Mary is amazing. You all are amazing.
Speaker 1:The husband is amazing, and I'm so, so sorry. That one's still tricky for me to read because we never got to process that much. But I want to emphasize that other than the safety issues, and I'm so glad we got home safely, I am. But other than that, it really was an amazing experience for her, and I'm so glad that we went. Shay says, first of all, I'm laughing at the quote.
Speaker 1:We look like we just broke out of the matrix in episode 54. Is there a place to comment on the podcast? I want to send props to System Speak's friend, Julie, for being a supportive and attentive friend. I just wanted to help Julie understand her creepy neighbor's wife. Sorry, Julie.
Speaker 1:I appreciate all you do for System Speak. It was just your comment about the creepy neighbor's wife felt. Well, it triggered me. What triggers me is the why didn't she just leave him? You know what I would do in that situation.
Speaker 1:I just leave. Okay. Before I read the rest of the email, let me be very clear that this person is listening to the very beginning of the podcast when we had a friend named Julie who was very what is a good word for Julie? Rambunctious, lively, animated, and I think there was something that pulled us out of dissociation enough to function because that was so over the top. But, also, we have since separated, and Julie's not been back on the podcast.
Speaker 1:We did have a different friend, Julie, who talked with us about the ISSTD recap this year in 2022. So that's a different Julie, just to be very clear. But this listener is talking about the first Julie from the very beginning of the podcast. So they say, I'm listening to episode 54. I want to send props to System Speaks friend Julie for being a supportive and attentive friend.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to help her understand though that the creepy neighbor's wife is actually a bigger issue. I'm sorry, Julie. I appreciate all you do for System Speak. It was just that your comment about the creepy neighbor's wife felt, well, it triggered me. What triggers me is when you said, why didn't she just leave him?
Speaker 1:You know what I would do in that situation? I'd just leave. This is the kind of idea of people who have not experienced what the neighbor's wife is likely going through. The creepy neighbor's wife was likely still stuck in something called a trauma bond and suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Those issues have many layers, and similar to the purpose of DID, serve to keep the victim safe in what is an unsafe environment.
Speaker 1:It's not DID, but it is its own mental state that serves to protect the victims from harm. The tricky thing about abusers is that they weave a web of positive reinforcement, financial control, emotional breaking down of the psyche, and they create fear of harm or they induce harm. These dynamics coupled with something called gaslighting tangles the victim into the relationship. There's also been studies that show this cycle actually affects the body's chemistry to create something that resembles addiction to the abuser. It's not addiction, but it's a similar neurological pattern.
Speaker 1:I'm not a doctor or a therapist, but a therapist and trauma specialist introduced this information to me when I escaped my abuser and was really unkind to myself about why I didn't leave sooner, even though I just couldn't. I can't explain the details of these things further because I'm not a trauma specialist, but I hope that helps provide some insight on some things that can be researched to understand why it's so hard for victims of domestic abuse to leave their partners. I don't feel like Julie was intentionally undermining the seriousness of the trauma bond on purpose. Her incredible support of Sasha and System Speak are indicative of her compassion and interest in understanding. I share this in lieu of her interest in learning.
Speaker 1:Many thanks to all the podcasts as it helps to feel less alone in the experience of living with DID, and many thanks to all the educational episodes that help me in normalizing my experience as I'm newly diagnosed. Welcome, Shay. We're so glad. I think we've seen you in the community too, so it's exciting to get to know you. This person says, I cannot believe it, but I have to tell you the books in Australia have finally arrived.
Speaker 1:You guys, they ordered their books in October like everyone else. And because of the pandemic and the shipping crisis and all of those dramas happening, it has taken October, November, December, January, February, March, April seven months, almost eight months for them to get their books. I can't even tell you. Like, that it's just I I just I'm so excited for you. I'm so glad.
Speaker 1:This person says, I've spent two years struggling with the trauma related coping skills book in therapy, and my goodness, that book was so triggering I couldn't get anywhere with it. So I'm incredibly grateful for your new workbook, which is honest, well thought out, and approachable for even the most skittish of systems. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart forever, Katherine.
Speaker 1:Oh, Katherine. I'm so glad. She's talking about the me, not me, and we workbook, which is a lived experience workbook that should be out on Amazon by the time you hear this. I'm so glad everyone has finally gotten their books, and I'm excited that and I'm so glad that they have been helpful. All three books now are on Amazon.
Speaker 1:We have the memoir, If Tears Were Prayers. We have the workbook, Me, Not Me, and We. And we have a clinical compilation called Perspectives on Dissociative Identity Response, which is a clinical compilation with several different clinicians that we wrote different chapters about contemporary issues and ethical and cultural issues that are not in the literature but need to be addressed. So we're super excited that that's out there as well. This person says, I'm so very excited to get my book and thanks so much.
Speaker 1:I'm so thankful I will be able to use your workbook in my recovery. I could just hug you right now. Oh, thank you. I'm so excited for you. In the community, Together Forever says, we were looking for the app self talking.
Speaker 1:It's not available on Android, but Antar is a similar app, and we like it. It can hold a lot of personas and numerous discussions or thought processes. Nothing is saved on the Internet, making it secure. Everything is safe to your phone. This app is free.
Speaker 1:So together, thanks for giving us permission to share that. Those of you who are looking for an app where you can have some internal conversations, one option is self talking, and then together also mentioned Antar, a n t a r. And so I'm glad that's working for you all. Thank you for sharing. Susan, a therapist I have never gotten to meet yet, but I know from the listserv, gave me permission to share this.
Speaker 1:They said, over the past few weeks, I have come to challenge myself over the understanding of dissociative experience of my clients and what different experts report what it is or should be. I have been working with many of my clients through the workbook me, not me, and we. The presentation of the material is wonderful and easier to understand. Many of my clients have made significant progress since beginning in the workbook. When talking with a client about a section in the workbook about different opinions on what parts should be called, it hit me that I take information from experts for what the dissociative experience is and things should be referred to and never question it because they are an expert in the field.
Speaker 1:I am not questioning their knowledge because many of them have done extraordinary work. What I have failed to acknowledge was the lived experience of my clients and how it didn't really matter what they called their parts or what other suggested labels they used or how some of these labels are scary. I encourage everyone to look into the workbook me, not me, and we. I have clients now engaged through this workbook that previously were not. Several have indicated they now understand the trauma they experienced and where it began.
Speaker 1:The prompts at the end of each chapter offer something for different types of individuals and involve a variety of sensory connections. They have also included suggested breaking points to help pace the reader. I'm so glad you have found it useful and that it's been good for your peoples. I'm so, so glad. That makes me so what a relief.
Speaker 1:It's so scary to put something out into the world, and so I'm super excited that it's been helpful. Thank you for sharing. Taylor says, I listened to your episode on Judith Herman's book, Trauma and Recovery. It's one of my favorite books on trauma and has been for years, So it was fun to hear someone new to the book react to it. I highly recommend her first book, Father Daughter Incest as well.
Speaker 1:It's similar in how she argues that trauma recovery needs a political component. You can borrow a copy on the Internet archive. If you want to learn more about Freud and how the Freudian cover up related to hysteria and sexual abuse, Florence Rush was the writer who started contesting the seduction theory. She was a social worker that often worked with the abused children and was a child abuse survivor herself. For example, she wrote about the Freudian cover up in the article Freud and sexual abuse of children in the first issue of Chrysalis way back in the seventies.
Speaker 1:In regards to politics and trauma, Louise Armstrong was a writer and child abuse survivor also in the feminist movement like Rush that wrote about incest. I think you would find her article, who stole incest from 1994 interesting. It's similar to Herman's book as it discusses why it's necessary to politicize the origins of incest. She discusses how the feminist movement was doing that in the seventies and eighties, but how the topic became solely medicalized over time, ignoring how gendered the subject is and focusing on the victim solely rather than looking at who the perpetrators tend to be. You can find both articles online.
Speaker 1:Thank you for making such an interesting podcast. Thank you so much for those references, Taylor. We will look into those. This person listened to the episode of Women's Conference, which happened in the 2019 right before before our whole life fell apart. So, we're about to talk about that episode in therapy, so I was surprised when someone wrote in about it.
Speaker 1:But they said, woah. This podcast may have opened up some options for us in healing. Thank you for being so vulnerable in sharing. I mean, I'm not going to start church shopping or anything, but woah. This quote, it makes sense with what we have been through that we would not want to pray to a God who only wants something from me or a part of me, end quote.
Speaker 1:That is going to stay with me for a long time, I think. That was so brave of you to share. Thank you. Someone from group gave me permission to share this piece without any names. Something came up in group where we were talking about what is making us depressed or what is making us anxious and trying to find triggers.
Speaker 1:And this person said, my DID trained therapist just asked who is triggered and who is anxious and who is depressed. Once I got through my denial, I learned that helping them was helping me when I'm brave enough to do it. To go one step further, you can replace the word depressed with sad and the word anxiety with terror. So the important piece is asking yourself who is sad? Who is so terrified they feel like they will die?
Speaker 1:You guys, this email has changed my life. It has changed my therapy. It has changed my therapy participation. I cannot even tell you how much this means. And we are going to have to reflect on this some in upcoming therapy sessions.
Speaker 1:So we'll be talking about this some more. In the community, in the System Speak fans group, there are two topics. One of them is about specific podcast episodes, and we can share about them on the podcast. The other one are specific questions for the podcast. So I'm going to check both of those.
Speaker 1:On the topic for specific podcast episodes, MultiMe shared the Seattle booking podcast, though. It was so, so nice to hear you step into now time and have it being met with connection, friendship, and safety. I hope the memories catapult you toward experiences that can be looked forward to. Keep building that healthy memory bank. And Holly replied to that, I just listened.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy for you, Emma Sunshaw. I cried along with you through that episode reflecting on the incredible journey you have made between those two conferences. You deserve all the goodness you are experiencing. Oh my goodness, peoples. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I wanna add one more bookend. We recently had a friend come and stay the weekend with our family to visit, and it was such a powerful experience. It was safe. It was easy. There was no drama.
Speaker 1:There was no need for any kind of fawning or defenses. Like, we were so relaxed and so engaged. I think if anything, we held back only a little in that it was healthy pacing. Like, part of me wanted to just fall apart, and, like, I felt parts, like, bouncing out. Like, I wanna do this, and I wanna tell him this, and I wanna show him this.
Speaker 1:But it was like, we need to pace things and take care of ourselves and keep it feeling safe. And you guys, it was an amazing, amazing, good visit. And there was even one part. I don't know if we told you this story about waiting on our porch every Wednesday for two years because we thought our friend was coming and how long it took us to pull out of that because of I don't know. But at one point in the weekend, without even thinking about that, we were waiting for them.
Speaker 1:They had gone to run some errands, and we were waiting on the front porch watching our children play, and they kind of ran inside. And we were still sitting there when they got there. And our friend just very naturally came up and just sat down on the bench with us on the front porch. You guys, that moment was so powerful. They didn't even say anything.
Speaker 1:We didn't even stay there very long. But I can't tell you how, like, neurologically, I felt so deeply in my brain. I can't even tell you. I felt my body settle. Like, our friend finally showed up.
Speaker 1:It wasn't the friend I thought was coming two years ago. But this friend who through these two years became a friend really did show up. And there we were on the porch, and they came and sat on the porch with us. And it was so restorative. Just a simple moment, a simple act of friendship, not even any effort at all, literally just sitting down on the bench.
Speaker 1:And it was so healing just that moment. It was so beautiful. So I just wanted to honor that as another bookend. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm pretending.
Speaker 1:Listen to Casita again. They said, this entire episode was solid gold. So many deep insights about living with DID. I'm so impressed by everything everyone contributed. Gold.
Speaker 1:I literally need to listen to this episode at least monthly because of how quickly I forget everything I know. This episode is such a reminder of how we exist, where we are, and where we want to go. I'm so thankful to you all in this community. We are doing healing together. And tomorrow, I'm watching Encanto again.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you did. And in fact, you know, on the website with some of the updates, we added a topical page where you can click on topics, and we have all the podcasts by that topic. Very general categories, but trying to help organize it a little bit for you. That's been requested for a long time, and we've finally been able to do it. So not all the episodes are there, but some of the main ones that are related to the common topic that people ask us about.
Speaker 1:And we added that Kasita episode to the orientation, like learning about DID because it was really so powerful of a discussion. Kate listened to the ISSTD annual conference recap we did with the new Julie and said, it was great hearing about the conference. The food there sounds yummy. I'm glad you had a friend to eat your meals with. I did not know sewing was a bilateral activity, so that was interesting to learn.
Speaker 1:Right? It was really fascinating. Dandelion said, I liked the episode a lot. There were a few things that there were a few things like the pieces on hypnosis and such that really made my brain go, woah, and I want to learn more about it. I've done hypnosis, but there was a whoopsie with the parts and so I've been scared, but trying again might be helpful.
Speaker 1:It was not the therapist's fault, but parts weren't on the same page and it caused a bit of a panic. So we've paused that, gaining trust again with ourselves and with the process. The therapist responded well. Dandelions, I love this so much. Not not that there was a whoopsie and I'm sorry there was a hard moment, but I love that you paused it because you did not push yourself through it when you all weren't ready or it wasn't the right time, but you also didn't quit it and avoid it.
Speaker 1:Pausing is such a beautiful, beautiful word, and I think that's genius. Well done. Unpretending replied. I just listened. Heavens to Betsy.
Speaker 1:Heavens to Betsy. What's Betsy doing in heaven? You know how she is. I'm telling you. No.
Speaker 1:They said, the conference sounded so amazing, although who knows how anyone could take all that information in. Just listening to the summary in this episode had blown my brains to the moon. I'll need to listen again tomorrow because the first half had some big inside feelings going on that I had to put aside so my ears could keep listening. So much information. But, hey, that's actually a good idea.
Speaker 1:Hold on. I'm going to make a new post. Hey. Good for you. I'm pretending.
Speaker 1:I'm really proud. The same thing. Kind of pausing, putting it aside, containing feelings, but returning to them, which is not the same as avoiding. That is just beautiful. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1:A thousand therapy points to unpretending. Unpretending then posted about it and said, the ISSTD one was so massive in my head, and I'd love to unpack it a bit or just chat about it. What do you reckon if we could talk about this episode during our group on the weekend? Do you want to listen between now and then, and we can talk about all the mind blowing stuff that was mentioned? Just a thought.
Speaker 1:I love that they did this, and I totally planned on being there, but I could not because we had company and we had outside children to tend to after being gone for several weeks. So it didn't work out that we could be there. I love that you all discussed this and kind of dug in deeper to it. That's so well done. So stinking proud of you.
Speaker 1:He said, it was so much information to process. I'm listening to it again. Someone else said, we listened last evening and especially toward the middle. There was so much good information about the panels. I'd like to talk about it for sure.
Speaker 1:It was really helpful. And honestly, for a moment there, I felt like I was on the cusp of understanding something huge, but it was just outside of my reach, which is normal for a Thursday. That's funny. It seemed like there were a few presentations from some very interesting and well put together sessions, but there were also some very soothing presenters. I could empathize with that feeling so much where you want to pay attention because the topic is amazing, but the person presenting is so kind and gentle and even toned that their voice is like warm blankets.
Speaker 1:Thank you as always Emma Sonshaw for another great discussion and a good guest. This recap was really helpful because we were really curious about how the conference went and what the sessions were like. Thank you so much for sharing. It helps others learn and listen and know what to listen to and pay attention to, and it really makes a difference. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Crystal shared, one of the things I'm learning is to never use the word free because people don't value it as much as if something is viewed as a gift. Many of your group links or other things you are trying to offer are listed as free, but I wanted to point out that they are not free. They are very valuable gifts worth a lot of time and money that you have given us. They're definitely not free as they take time and energy and have been of such great value. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:That gives us so much to think about, but thank you for sharing that concept, and it's very kind of you to receive a gift by acknowledging it as such. That's very touching. Thank you, crystals. In the topic about questions for the podcast, the question that is submitted is about more movie groups because they've relistened to Casita, which they did, and turning red is coming up. You will have already heard it by the time this episode airs.
Speaker 1:And so, yes, we will be doing more movie groups, and I'm so excited so excited. And as always, we appreciate your emails because it's a way to show support to each other and a way to encourage listeners to connect, and that's where our healing is. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in Community Together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too, being human together. So, yeah, sometimes we'll see you there.