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课代表立正的官方Podcast
深度访谈，有用干货，亲身验证的「真本事」
Superlinear Academy创始人，Maven Top AI Instructor
前Statsig布道师（OpenAI收购），腾讯副总监，Meta，Amazon；康奈尔经济学博士
社区：Superlinear.Academy
课程：ai-builders.com
个人：lizheng.ai
i think it's important that you're
always trying to you know change and
grow and become
yeah for me i like to other different
stuff i i always go for the
for the dish that i haven't tried before
so i don't like exactly yeah even for a
while like even i know i like this one a
lot i always
want to try a different bottle and would
you say
uh
this is abnormal in china or
maybe your influence from america or is
this just your personality in general i
don't know like
maybe it's the 48 kids you know
maybe indeed
what about you do you like to try new
stuff or uh i always like to just yeah
but but like he he's spent a lot of time
traveling as well
for example last night my favorite days
was the asparagus because it was new
really yeah
what about what about your friends
everyone likes to try this they don't
like to taste the same food over and
over again
so the one signature dish or several
signature dishes
which is a different story yeah they if
it's really good
they and it's really associated with the
restaurant they will want to taste it
when they're here yeah but would they go
back to taste again yeah
yeah but not with the exact same menu as
before
one second tradition different
combinations so maybe that's our way of
doing powering right
oh yeah maybe that's also our way of why
we like control because of for
people who are very uh
aesthetic in ordering chinese food
the other ring is part part is part of
the creation
like the way uh like how your other
different dishes how you choose to
combine them and also the
you know uh the sequence of uh
presenting the food is very uh uh yeah
it's very essential to the whole
experience and uh someone who who knows
how to order uh may yeah
would have a very different information
in our version we also transfer them for
example we make sure they when they come
the next time they don't have the exact
same menu as last time but we just
choose for them yeah but you know i
think
and this is like what kind of adwords
uh enlightened me to the local
preferences is that
we we can change something you can
choose some dishes for them but they
also need to have some choice and like
that's why like
you know we have these supplements now
and i offer the the signature dish as an
option but i never put it on the main
menu you know so like it's a second dish
this the chicken it's not mine oh yeah
yeah
yeah so sourdough yeah so if
you know guests come and they they love
the signature dish or they want to show
it to a friend or something they can
order it but
the menu doesn't have that anymore
because i was getting sick of cooking
the same thing
i wanted to keep you know keep trying
new stuff
yeah i think it's uh it's actually a
good balance yeah it's not on the menu
it's still available so only people who
you know people would even
the people who under this dish for the
privileged experience would even feel
more even more of privilege right right
yeah in the know yeah yeah
yeah um there was one question prepared
before and i think it's a good time to
ask that question because uh
you are a foreigner
coming to china to do chinese food
i don't see chinese food
last night
that's from the article the article says
you are more than cantonese and you
agreed to the term because they didn't
like execution you didn't get the word
efficient
i didn't create that
uh word some guests that come in say oh
you're kind of like a modern cantonese
restaurant and when i when guests tell
me that
i i like it i like it much more than you
know oh i like your fusion concept
you know yeah me too oh so i think it's
kind of cool because it's only that i
don't view it as uh more than cantonese
of uh modern chinese yeah
the reason i said
i say that because you use chinese
ingredients you use chinese seasoning
maybe not the the traditional chinese
seasoning but you know your ingredients
are from here that of course is
yeah it is chinese food technically you
know chinese food maybe not chinese
cooking or cuisine
i mean even that's in the evolution uh
before
i think we were a little bit more closer
to the palate of cantonese
but because shenzhen has so many
different people from all over china
it was such a
i would get a complaint that it's not
spicy enough or we didn't use enough
bread or we didn't do this or you know
and so i had to kind of open
the experience to more than just you
know cantonese
um so i i'm from yentai
okay well the same place as the wago
beef yeah it's from the luggage dishes
also from the entire and uh
our style is lose high right and uh
there are different uh
there are actually two styles of
loose hat which means uh shannon is food
one is the western more inland a lot of
south and so south yeah uh in a western
part in the eastern part it's a lot of
seafood the fish i had yesterday uh
reminds me of that uh kind of stuff
cooking okay um yeah
stock seafood and light light light
lighter seasoning right right and not
never never overcooked so we also cook
our shrimp and the shrimp the
temperature has to be perfect and not
overcooked
so
like i feel
in the core of fandani and the core of
the traditional chinese cooking
i'm much alone
i agree with you but
you didn't go to fans
wisdom or inspiration from the chinese
style of cooking
no sometimes how curious are you in the
chinese cooking of the chinese cooking
styles i mean i would love to
actually spend time in a chinese kitchen
but it's you know just
it's kind of hard right now
then priority wise learning ingredients
and learning cooking
styles
i mean they're the same in
you know because usually when i
find an ingredient i research how it's
cooked locally first
and then i you know maybe take some
ideas or maybe do something completely
different
but i'll always try to do it uh
how you know the local might prepare the
ingredient
first
is it hard to learn or is it very
different the cooking techniques the i
mean to learn to make it good is easy to
make it great as difficult
you know so i think to be a master you
need many years of experience and lots
of understanding but i think
if you just spend time in a kitchen you
already have a certain
understanding of how
food proteins
liquids fats all react to different
heat temperatures
fermentation
acids all of these things kind of
interact so if you know the foundations
of cooking
you can kind of jump in any cooking
style and i think someone
achieved good results
but
in chinese cuisine and i think the china
you know you make you pick
certain details that are very
you know like the cantonese the way they
steam a fish
even if i steamed it perfectly it still
wouldn't be good enough you know because
they wouldn't muster to them yeah you
know you need to have
uh you need to have some sort of street
credit you know you need to be it's true
credit
but also the way it's presented like uh
the kind of thing is required to be
right in front of you you have 10
seconds and after the 10 seconds is
going bad yeah by the way it's down here
like you cannot do that yeah exactly so
i can't i can't approach it the same way
i have to do it differently and we tried
to do some ingredients
closer to traditional methods and that
was always the biggest
uh rejection in the in the dining room
that's true and so
it's like okay you know
let's i'll cook the way i know how to
cook best
maybe with a little bit of influence
or i can improve my skills
by understanding another type of skill
you know and i think you know some hints
of the traditional way of cooking
can be
present in uh
in the experience but too much of it
then you draw yourself into this
comparison that you don't want to
yeah exactly and then you become fusion
bad fusion you know yeah yeah
one big difference i noticed between
chinese cooking and the western cooking
is in the south yeah most chinese sauce
is fermented
fermented
it's fermented and the most western
sauce did never ferment yeah but
we've been doing or i've been doing
fermented sauce
very early even in any country i worked
in
and i think you know it's a big
inspiration from asian countries
and so western
sauces now i think have a lot of
fermentation involved in them but like
classically yeah western sauces don't
have
a lot of fermentation but you know we
season
instead of salt we use
you know garums or
soy sauces jung-yoos
however you want to call it
made from the ingredient
so
instead of you know fermenting soybeans
and rice we ferment beef and rice
you know and that's and then we season
our beef shoe with that
and then instead of adding
acid vinegar which is also a type of
fermentation
we might you know use another type of
lacto-fermentation
so we're just yeah we're taking
the same kind of core
way of approaching a western sauce
but we're adding more flavor and more
levels of flavor by using fermentation
subtly
how do you like the
last question then okay yeah so how
how do you like the
work experience here like uh i know it's
since you've been here it's mostly uh
covet right the pandemic
and yeah i guess i didn't even realize
uh yeah i mean it's
it's good i miss home a little bit but
uh
in terms of the work environments it's
well balanced
um
we don't do lunch here which is you know
i can come into work
i only
i only work 12 hours which is pretty
tough it's pretty good for a restaurant
yeah you mentioned the six hours
yeah
when i first started some of the jobs i
worked 16 hours
it depends like when i worked on the
farm your work and your life is very
much mixed right because you wake up
early to feed the animals
but you know you might spend a couple
hours outside in the garden
and then go into the kitchen to prepare
the ingredients and you eat with the
whole family so your whole life is kind
of about this whole cycle yeah um
here it's uh you know i don't have that
privilege but it's
you know
i try to keep a positive work
environment you know a lot of chefs are
i get angry sometimes but
most of the time you know i'm it's about
you know we play music in the kitchen we
try to have fun and you know laugh and
uh
you know
cook good food for each other you know
it's like
the customers
you start to uh this like you start to
figure out the customers and uh yeah and
then i started to figure out the clients
uh and you know also our return guests
like edward's saying we have quite a lot
of
information on them so we can
you know give them dishes that we know
what they'll like and you know obviously
i'd like to do more than we are
but it's you know it's always balancing
what we can handle with the team the and
then yeah the
you know training the the staff is also
exciting too and teaching them different
ways and
now after three years we've had quite a
few people you know come through the
kitchen and move on and continue their
their success and
you know so that's
that's the most rewarding to be honest
actually
is
is seeing the stories of these young
young generation of chinese cooks
planting seas yeah that's a good
metaphor planting seeds for the future
growth of
and i'm curious to see because i think
china has such a
a strong history
you know more than almost any other
country
and through that history there's a lot
of
uh rules and traditions about
about cuisine and regions and
a lot of people like you said you know
this is how we do it you know in our
region and this is what we care about
yeah and it's it's
it's it's good to have that and it's
good to have that history but it it
sometimes scares people from breaking
away from those traditions from being
innovative and i see
you know chefs when in in china if they
choose to work at like a restaurant like
ensue they're already making that choice
to breakaway transition and to see what
else and you know i've got two
you know two chefs that have worked two
years for me and now are
running their own kitchens and i'm
curious to see you know you know if i
taught them because it's like it's how
they approach innovation and
creating a new dish is is very foreign
for them and that creativity and once
you spark that it's like oh it's
exciting to see and uh
since they have more knowledge about
this tradition i always feel like yeah
you need to they're going to be better
chefs than me
because of that different different
different shops
yeah like be aware of the tradition know
the context
but yeah don't limit to uh
have the freedom to break them or you
know it right yeah
me too i really like last night after
the dinner i thanked uh edward for uh
bringing into two changes so you know
this whole experience and the
possibilities yeah it's very exciting
yeah and thank you thank you thank you
for the interview thanks guys thank you
mr sadie
all right bye bye